CJ announced that they hired Coach Park (former SK and EGTL coach) for their new coach.
-omitted-
The former CJ coachess, Kim Dong Woo and Park Si Hyun, and CJ both agreed not to to re-sign.
Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid have made an official statement: Source
Today, it is with great appreciation that Evil Geniuses & Team Liquid announce the departure of Head Coach Park from our StarCraft divisions’ Pro league team. Coach Park has been offered the recently-vacated Head Coaching role at CJ Entus, and both EG-TL and Coach Park agree that it is in his best interests to accept the position.
Both EG and TL have benefited enormously from Coach Park’s tenure. This is true not only in terms of wins and losses (a recent analysis posted on TL.net outlined in detailed fashion the improvement EG-TL saw under his leadership), but also in terms of player management philosophy and general mentality. Coach Park is absolutely incredible at what he does, and we both lucky to have worked with him for part of this year. We will certainly miss him, but we are also very happy for him and wish him nothing but the best.
He had this to say about his time with EG-TL: “I have been sincerely happy to be with EG-TL. I was able to learn much and there were things left to be desired during these days. If I am to get a chance like this again in the future, I would like to be someone who can live up to the many fans’ expectations. I will visit you again with a different look. Thank you very much for your attention and love.”
Coach Park’s departure is not indicative of EG-TL’s future in Pro League one way or the other. With our team’s participation in this season now being over, we’re currently weighing the plusses and minuses of being a part of the prestigious team league, and haven’t made any decisions on what the future will look like for us. For the time being, we will keep the same training facility setup (with Assistant Coach trOt continuing to live with the players full-time) as we decide what to do going into next season.
In conclusion, we would like to once again stress that we cannot emphasize enough how much we appreciate Coach Park as a person, and how much we enjoyed working with him. There is no doubt in our minds that he will bring great success to CJ Entus.
Sincerely,
Alexander Garfield (CEO, Evil Geniuses) & Victor Goossens (CEO, Team Liquid)
On July 22 2013 10:54 The_Templar wrote: What the.. Does this confirm that EGTL will not be in the next proleague?
Seems so. SPL was apparently very expensive to participate in so it wouldn't surprise me if EGTL is cutting their losses. The real question now is... Jaedong back to JinAir or no ? DD:
I wonder if EGTL will continue in Proleague and if so, who will be their coach? If not, I wish they could have a great coach like Coach Park. I mean, their results as of late have been so good *O*
On July 22 2013 10:54 The_Templar wrote: What the.. Does this confirm that EGTL will not be in the next proleague?
Seems so. SPL was apparently very expensive to participate in so it wouldn't surprise me if EGTL is cutting their losses. The real question now is... Jaedong back to JinAir or no ? DD:
I would bet yes on no more EG-TL but no on Jaedong back to T8. He's THE face of EG Korea, but I have nothing else to support this suspicion besides his popularity. I have to figure his ROI is good.
Sad news for EGTL. Pretty much confirms no more proleague for EGTL. GL to Coach Park on CJ. Seemed like an awesome dude. It will be interesting to see how much he can improve CJ during the off season and going into the next.
Kind of a shame EG-TL didn't take something as prestigious as Pro League seriously. I wonder if an eSF team would. I have an inkling that they would put it at a much higher priority than EG-TL, and take it much more seriously. You can't half arse proleague and expect to do well.
Today, it is with great appreciation that Evil Geniuses & Team Liquid announce the departure of Head Coach Park from our StarCraft divisions’ Pro league team. Coach Park has been offered the recently-vacated Head Coaching role at CJ Entus, and both EG-TL and Coach Park agree that it is in his best interests to accept the position.
Both EG and TL have benefited enormously from Coach Park’s tenure. This is true not only in terms of wins and losses (a recent analysis posted on TL.net outlined in detailed fashion the improvement EG-TL saw under his leadership), but also in terms of player management philosophy and general mentality. Coach Park is absolutely incredible at what he does, and we both lucky to have worked with him for part of this year. We will certainly miss him, but we are also very happy for him and wish him nothing but the best.
He had this to say about his time with EG-TL: “I have been sincerely happy to be with EG-TL. I was able to learn much and there were things left to be desired during these days. If I am to get a chance like this again in the future, I would like to be someone who can live up to the many fans’ expectations. I will visit you again with a different look. Thank you very much for your attention and love.”
Coach Park’s departure is not indicative of EG-TL’s future in Pro League one way or the other. With our team’s participation in this season now being over, we’re currently weighing the plusses and minuses of being a part of the prestigious team league, and haven’t made any decisions on what the future will look like for us. For the time being, we will keep the same training facility setup (with Assistant Coach trOt continuing to live with the players full-time) as we decide what to do going into next season.
In conclusion, we would like to once again stress that we cannot emphasize enough how much we appreciate Coach Park as a person, and how much we enjoyed working with him. There is no doubt in our minds that he will bring great success to CJ Entus.
Sincerely,
Alexander Garfield (CEO, Evil Geniuses) & Victor Goossens (CEO, Team Liquid)
If it's confirmed that EG-TL doesn't participate in the next season, I wonder if EG will keep Oz and aLive as they were mostly recruited for the Proleague or if they will focus on recruiting big foreign talents like they did in the past with HuK, ThorZaIN, Stephano...
On July 22 2013 11:02 juicyjames wrote: If there's no more EG-TL, will SPL be only 7 teams or will they try to lure some GSTL teams over? eSF-KeSPA trade lock ends in October.
I imagine some ESF teams are going to participate (I hope anyway).
On July 22 2013 11:02 juicyjames wrote: If there's no more EG-TL, will SPL be only 7 teams or will they try to lure some GSTL teams over? eSF-KeSPA trade lock ends in October.
I imagine some ESF teams are going to participate (I hope anyway).
Do any of them have the weight to throw around to make that happen? Maybe Startale with Redbull?
On July 22 2013 11:03 Boucot wrote: If it's confirmed that EG-TL doesn't participate in the next season, I wonder if EG will keep Oz and aLive as they were mostly recruited for the Proleague or if they will focus on recruiting big foreign talents like they did in the past with HuK, ThorZaIN, Stephano...
I remember Alex said they signed Alive and Oz on a 6 month contract specifically for PL, so I'd imagine they'll be cut loose - unless of course during this time he found it reasonable to sign another contract with one/both of them
On July 22 2013 11:02 Rhaegal wrote: Kind of a shame EG-TL didn't take something as prestigious as Pro League seriously. I wonder if an eSF team would. I have an inkling that they would put it at a much higher priority than EG-TL, and take it much more seriously. You can't half arse proleague and expect to do well.
Hahahah, seriously. You know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.
Really hope EG-TL stays in Proleague, with some other coach... And if they don't, hopefully Proleague get a replacement team or two... And if they do, hopefully GSTL doesn't die off....
I miss the short CJ manager, he was always so passionate, but Coach Park is passionate too, and he'll work wonders over at CJ, he definitely seemed to help EGTL in their short run!
On July 22 2013 11:02 juicyjames wrote: If there's no more EG-TL, will SPL be only 7 teams or will they try to lure some GSTL teams over? eSF-KeSPA trade lock ends in October.
I imagine some ESF teams are going to participate (I hope anyway).
Do any of them have the weight to throw around to make that happen? Maybe Startale with Redbull?
Honestly, I figured LG-IM. But Startale is good too with the big-name sponsor.
I'm pretty sad if this means JD won't be in proleague anymore (I mean, I'm sad for everyone who enjoyed having consistent matches on EG-TL). Almost sad enough to hope he goes to any team still in proleague...QQ
NOoooooo! EG-TL unless they are gonna hire another coach, this pretty much means the end of the line right? There was something really special about EG and TL playing in Proleague...
Yeah that basically confirms no EG-TL in proleague next season. If GSTL is sticking around I wouldn't mind seeing them there as playing in these big korean team leagues are super helpful to the players for more exposure etc.
coach park coach hopping... so odd to even think about that. he will always be skt1 in my eyes. but that's tight to see CJ potentially returning to glory again.
in other news, eg-tl is either done, or a new marketing / hype stunt. i'm going with done.
Next announcement is that JD leaves EG. Now the real question is who else will decide to leave too? I think Oz will be switching teams too since Coach Park was his reason to sign with EG.
On July 22 2013 11:10 NovemberstOrm wrote: Yeah that basically confirms no EG-TL in proleague next season. If GSTL is sticking around I wouldn't mind seeing them there as playing in these big korean team leagues are super helpful to the players for more exposure etc.
Yeah personnally I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of eSF teams (LG-IM and MVP most likely) participate in next Proleague season and are replaced by some foreign teams in the GSTL.
This most likely signifies the end of EG and TL Korean players being at a level comparable to Kespa players. Even if Proleague costs a lot of money, it's the best possible practice and motivation, especially with a coach like Park.
In the official statement from EGTL they said that Coach Park’s departure is not indicative of EGTL future in Pro League. They might still play, they might, and right now they are weighting the odds and seeing if it is worth it.
On July 22 2013 11:16 yawnoC wrote: In the official statement from EGTL they said that Coach Park’s departure is not indicative of EGTL future in Pro League. They might still play, they might, and right now they are weighting the odds and seeing if it is worth it.
Who would they get as a replacement coach though? Honestly I just don't see them staying in PL after this :/
Today, it is with great appreciation that Evil Geniuses & Team Liquid announce the departure of Head Coach Park from our StarCraft divisions’ Pro league team. Coach Park has been offered the recently-vacated Head Coaching role at CJ Entus, and both EG-TL and Coach Park agree that it is in his best interests to accept the position.
Both EG and TL have benefited enormously from Coach Park’s tenure. This is true not only in terms of wins and losses (a recent analysis posted on TL.net outlined in detailed fashion the improvement EG-TL saw under his leadership), but also in terms of player management philosophy and general mentality. Coach Park is absolutely incredible at what he does, and we both lucky to have worked with him for part of this year. We will certainly miss him, but we are also very happy for him and wish him nothing but the best.
He had this to say about his time with EG-TL: “I have been sincerely happy to be with EG-TL. I was able to learn much and there were things left to be desired during these days. If I am to get a chance like this again in the future, I would like to be someone who can live up to the many fans’ expectations. I will visit you again with a different look. Thank you very much for your attention and love.”
Coach Park’s departure is not indicative of EG-TL’s future in Pro League one way or the other. With our team’s participation in this season now being over, we’re currently weighing the plusses and minuses of being a part of the prestigious team league, and haven’t made any decisions on what the future will look like for us. For the time being, we will keep the same training facility setup (with Assistant Coach trOt continuing to live with the players full-time) as we decide what to do going into next season.
In conclusion, we would like to once again stress that we cannot emphasize enough how much we appreciate Coach Park as a person, and how much we enjoyed working with him. There is no doubt in our minds that he will bring great success to CJ Entus.
Sincerely,
Alexander Garfield (CEO, Evil Geniuses) & Victor Goossens (CEO, Team Liquid)
Today, it is with great appreciation that Evil Geniuses & Team Liquid announce the departure of Head Coach Park from our StarCraft divisions’ Pro league team. Coach Park has been offered the recently-vacated Head Coaching role at CJ Entus, and both EG-TL and Coach Park agree that it is in his best interests to accept the position.
Both EG and TL have benefited enormously from Coach Park’s tenure. This is true not only in terms of wins and losses (a recent analysis posted on TL.net outlined in detailed fashion the improvement EG-TL saw under his leadership), but also in terms of player management philosophy and general mentality. Coach Park is absolutely incredible at what he does, and we both lucky to have worked with him for part of this year. We will certainly miss him, but we are also very happy for him and wish him nothing but the best.
He had this to say about his time with EG-TL: “I have been sincerely happy to be with EG-TL. I was able to learn much and there were things left to be desired during these days. If I am to get a chance like this again in the future, I would like to be someone who can live up to the many fans’ expectations. I will visit you again with a different look. Thank you very much for your attention and love.”
Coach Park’s departure is not indicative of EG-TL’s future in Pro League one way or the other. With our team’s participation in this season now being over, we’re currently weighing the plusses and minuses of being a part of the prestigious team league, and haven’t made any decisions on what the future will look like for us. For the time being, we will keep the same training facility setup (with Assistant Coach trOt continuing to live with the players full-time) as we decide what to do going into next season.
In conclusion, we would like to once again stress that we cannot emphasize enough how much we appreciate Coach Park as a person, and how much we enjoyed working with him. There is no doubt in our minds that he will bring great success to CJ Entus.
Sincerely,
Alexander Garfield (CEO, Evil Geniuses) & Victor Goossens (CEO, Team Liquid)
They got last place, the ROI is not good...especially without Park
On July 22 2013 11:02 Rhaegal wrote: Kind of a shame EG-TL didn't take something as prestigious as Pro League seriously. I wonder if an eSF team would. I have an inkling that they would put it at a much higher priority than EG-TL, and take it much more seriously. You can't half arse proleague and expect to do well.
Hahahah, seriously. You know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.
You think EG-TL put even a fraction of the effort into SPL as Woonjin Stars or STX? Their players streamed a ton of hours, flew to global tournaments on a monthly/weekly basis, and their foreigners weren't even required to go to the team house.
On July 22 2013 11:02 Rhaegal wrote: Kind of a shame EG-TL didn't take something as prestigious as Pro League seriously. I wonder if an eSF team would. I have an inkling that they would put it at a much higher priority than EG-TL, and take it much more seriously. You can't half arse proleague and expect to do well.
Hahahah, seriously. You know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.
You think EG-TL put even a fraction of the effort into SPL as Woonjin Stars or STX? Their players streamed a ton of hours, flew to global tournaments on a monthly/weekly basis, and their foreigners weren't even required to go to the team house.
With joining proleague they did the following: Got another teamhouse Proleague entry fee(huge fee think 50k-100k or something like that) 3 new players(jaedong,oz & alive) Coach park(gee he must have been cheap!)
Doesn't look good for EG-TL staying in pro league, with NSH possibly disbanding both leagues could have pretty small leagues. I guess EG-TL could play in GSTL if they keep a house in korea with how much more relaxed it is, at least get some exposure.
IM/MVP to proleague would be pretty awesome
Hopefully CJ pick up a few good players when the trade lock is up, or even Jjajkji if his team disbands.
On July 22 2013 11:02 Rhaegal wrote: Kind of a shame EG-TL didn't take something as prestigious as Pro League seriously. I wonder if an eSF team would. I have an inkling that they would put it at a much higher priority than EG-TL, and take it much more seriously. You can't half arse proleague and expect to do well.
Hahahah, seriously. You know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.
You think EG-TL put even a fraction of the effort into SPL as Woonjin Stars or STX? Their players streamed a ton of hours, flew to global tournaments on a monthly/weekly basis, and their foreigners weren't even required to go to the team house.
With joining proleague they did the following: Got another teamhouse Proleague entry fee(huge fee think 50k-100k or something like that) 3 new players(jaedong,oz & alive) Coach park(gee he must have been cheap!)
Doesn't sound very serious to me.
It's not to say they didn't take it seriously, but that they didn't take it as seriously as the teams they were playing against. For EG-TL, Proleague was a big priority among other priorities. While they invested deeply into Proleague, they definitely made some compromises that hurt their Proleague competitiveness.
For KeSPA teams, Proleague is THE top priority above all others. It's difficult to compete in that kind of situation.
On July 22 2013 11:13 Waxangel wrote: Combined GSTL-PL please
I don't think GOM has a choice on this one, the GSTL just gone was very low-key and although Dreamhack was on the same time 15k viewers for the finals speaks volumes. I wouldn't be surprised to see all the stable ESF teams switch over - LG-IM, FXO and MVP. - Not listing Prime as they're apparently struggling financially (with no proof of it myself)
On July 22 2013 11:13 Waxangel wrote: Combined GSTL-PL please
I don't think GOM has a choice on this one, the GSTL just gone was very low-key and although Dreamhack was on the same time 15k viewers for the finals speaks volumes. I wouldn't be surprised to see all the stable ESF teams switch over - LG-IM, FXO and MVP. - Not listing Prime as they're apparently struggling financially (with no proof of it myself)
On July 22 2013 10:54 The_Templar wrote: What the.. Does this confirm that EGTL will not be in the next proleague?
From the op: Coach Park’s departure is not indicative of EG-TL’s future in Pro League one way or the other. With our team’s participation in this season now being over, we’re currently weighing the plusses and minuses of being a part of the prestigious team league, and haven’t made any decisions on what the future will look like for us. For the time being, we will keep the same training facility setup (with Assistant Coach trOt continuing to live with the players full-time) as we decide what to do going into next season.
On July 22 2013 11:55 Antisocialmunky wrote: I'm more concerned about CJ's coaches quitting.
I'm guessing CJ expected playoff qualification, and with them sucking really hard once HOTS came out, they had no choice but to not renew their contracts. Should be okay though, Coach Park still has Orion to work with.
On July 22 2013 11:57 Dodgin wrote: proleague playoffs had like 1/2 of the viewers for gstl finals even though nothing else was on, they're both doing poorly with the english audience.
The team leagues need some excitement and a unified league with a Kespa division and an eSF division would create much needed hype. You'd start with 1st round only division play then in the 2nd cross division and continue alternating.. Then mix the divisions in the second season based on team strength. It would be glorious.
On July 22 2013 10:54 The_Templar wrote: What the.. Does this confirm that EGTL will not be in the next proleague?
From the op: Coach Park’s departure is not indicative of EG-TL’s future in Pro League one way or the other. With our team’s participation in this season now being over, we’re currently weighing the plusses and minuses of being a part of the prestigious team league, and haven’t made any decisions on what the future will look like for us. For the time being, we will keep the same training facility setup (with Assistant Coach trOt continuing to live with the players full-time) as we decide what to do going into next season.
In other words, "Probably".
Realistically I think many suspected that EGTL may not want to continue in Proleague - viewer numbers haven't been high, likely due to a combination of the oft-maligned casting and the fact that EGTL were really struggling early on (when for some reason people expected them to do well). We of course don't know for certain and there's still a chance that EGTL will continue in Proleague (and I hope they do), but it's not looking likely at this stage.
Good luck to coach Park, although I wish you would come back home!
On July 22 2013 11:02 juicyjames wrote: If there's no more EG-TL, will SPL be only 7 teams or will they try to lure some GSTL teams over? eSF-KeSPA trade lock ends in October.
Today, it is with great appreciation that Evil Geniuses & Team Liquid announce the departure of Head Coach Park from our StarCraft divisions’ Pro league team. Coach Park has been offered the recently-vacated Head Coaching role at CJ Entus, and both EG-TL and Coach Park agree that it is in his best interests to accept the position.
Both EG and TL have benefited enormously from Coach Park’s tenure. This is true not only in terms of wins and losses (a recent analysis posted on TL.net outlined in detailed fashion the improvement EG-TL saw under his leadership), but also in terms of player management philosophy and general mentality. Coach Park is absolutely incredible at what he does, and we both lucky to have worked with him for part of this year. We will certainly miss him, but we are also very happy for him and wish him nothing but the best.
He had this to say about his time with EG-TL: “I have been sincerely happy to be with EG-TL. I was able to learn much and there were things left to be desired during these days. If I am to get a chance like this again in the future, I would like to be someone who can live up to the many fans’ expectations. I will visit you again with a different look. Thank you very much for your attention and love.”
Coach Park’s departure is not indicative of EG-TL’s future in Pro League one way or the other. With our team’s participation in this season now being over, we’re currently weighing the plusses and minuses of being a part of the prestigious team league, and haven’t made any decisions on what the future will look like for us. For the time being, we will keep the same training facility setup (with Assistant Coach trOt continuing to live with the players full-time) as we decide what to do going into next season.
In conclusion, we would like to once again stress that we cannot emphasize enough how much we appreciate Coach Park as a person, and how much we enjoyed working with him. There is no doubt in our minds that he will bring great success to CJ Entus.
Sincerely,
Alexander Garfield (CEO, Evil Geniuses) & Victor Goossens (CEO, Team Liquid)
I think it's more than guaranteed and lol at A.G.'s comments. It will take a lot more than Coach Park to correct the CJ ship.
On July 22 2013 11:55 Antisocialmunky wrote: I'm more concerned about CJ's coaches quitting.
I'm guessing CJ expected playoff qualification, and with them sucking really hard once HOTS came out, they had no choice but to not renew their contracts. Should be okay though, Coach Park still has Orion to work with.
Remember what I said about Orion? hue, hue. Having a quality coach can only take you so far.
On July 22 2013 11:16 yawnoC wrote: In the official statement from EGTL they said that Coach Park’s departure is not indicative of EGTL future in Pro League. They might still play, they might, and right now they are weighting the odds and seeing if it is worth it.
Who would they get as a replacement coach though? Honestly I just don't see them staying in PL after this :/
Coach Park is not some irreplaceable god. EGTL didnt even go positive after they got him on the team, so fucking overrated.. There are plenty of good coaches out there that they could get.
On July 22 2013 11:16 yawnoC wrote: In the official statement from EGTL they said that Coach Park’s departure is not indicative of EGTL future in Pro League. They might still play, they might, and right now they are weighting the odds and seeing if it is worth it.
Who would they get as a replacement coach though? Honestly I just don't see them staying in PL after this :/
Coach Park is not some irreplaceable god. EGTL didnt even go positive after they got him on the team, so fucking overrated.. There are plenty of good coaches out there that they could get.
They would still have trOt and yes they were never meant to be saviors.
On July 22 2013 11:57 Dodgin wrote: proleague playoffs had like 1/2 of the viewers for gstl finals even though nothing else was on, they're both doing poorly with the english audience.
The team leagues need some excitement and a unified league with a Kespa division and an eSF division would create much needed hype. You'd start with 1st round only division play then in the 2nd cross division and continue alternating.. Then mix the divisions in the second season based on team strength. It would be glorious.
I'd simply watch more Proleague if Tastosis were casting it. Or a better duo at the very least.
On July 22 2013 11:57 Dodgin wrote: proleague playoffs had like 1/2 of the viewers for gstl finals even though nothing else was on, they're both doing poorly with the english audience.
The team leagues need some excitement and a unified league with a Kespa division and an eSF division would create much needed hype. You'd start with 1st round only division play then in the 2nd cross division and continue alternating.. Then mix the divisions in the second season based on team strength. It would be glorious.
I'd simply watch more Proleague if Tastosis were casting it. Or a better duo at the very least.
People ought to learn Korean already. Come on now!
On July 22 2013 11:57 Dodgin wrote: proleague playoffs had like 1/2 of the viewers for gstl finals even though nothing else was on, they're both doing poorly with the english audience.
The team leagues need some excitement and a unified league with a Kespa division and an eSF division would create much needed hype. You'd start with 1st round only division play then in the 2nd cross division and continue alternating.. Then mix the divisions in the second season based on team strength. It would be glorious.
I'd simply watch more Proleague if Tastosis were casting it. Or a better duo at the very least.
1000x this. I basically only watch SKT matches (and even then not always) because I don't like the Proleague english casting. Having been spoiled by the likes of Tastosis, I just can't go back to Korean commentary anymore.
I'd watch more Proleague if it was fun like the GSTL. SPL production seemed so stiff; everything is just rigid. I was really only interested in watching when EG-TL played.
The departure of Coach Park really makes future participation seem unlikely. Park really wanted to manage a non-Korean team. The press statement sounded like, "hey Park, we're leaning towards not participating; you should take the CJ job--you know, just in case". If there is no SPL in the future of The Unholy Alliance, I hope to see the two teams in GSTL--as separate teams.
For eSF teams going to SPL, LG-IM makes the most sense because they're sponsored by a "mother company" in LG. Their roster is also the most solid.
I'm really pleased for CJ. They have incredible players who just need a little nudge to bring them to the foreground in both team and individual leagues (I'm looking at you Effort and herO).
"Yeah right" to the second to last part. If they were going to stay in Proleague, it would be a really bad decision to let Coach Park go, unless they are happy being the literal team 8 (as in last).
On July 22 2013 12:54 larse wrote: CJ is rich. First acquiring Blaze and Frost, and now Coach Park? So rich.
CJ is a huge entertainment group in korea. They're basically equivalent to Warner Bros in USA. So not surprised they invested into 2 LoL teams as well as coach Park. But look at the bright side, at least that means sc2 isn't completely dead in korea considering CJ thought it was worth it to invest in a new coach.
On July 22 2013 12:51 havok55 wrote: "Yeah right" to the second to last part. If they were going to stay in Proleague, it would be a really bad decision to let Coach Park go, unless they are happy being the literal team 8 (as in last).
But anyway, good news for CJ.
Probably CJ offered a huge contract that EG can't remotely match. It's highly possible, CJ is rich after all.
On July 22 2013 12:54 larse wrote: CJ is rich. First acquiring Blaze and Frost, and now Coach Park? So rich.
CJ is a huge entertainment group in korea. They're basically equivalent to Warner Bros in USA. So not surprised they invested into 2 LoL teams as well as coach Park. But look at the bright side, at least that means sc2 isn't completely dead in korea considering CJ thought it was worth it to invest in a new coach.
I think Coach Park will also manage those LoL teams, LoL doesn't have well established coach after all. So it's more of a confirmation on LoL's popularity, rather than SC2 being popular. Most KeSPA head coaches from rich teams also moderate their LoL teams.
On July 22 2013 12:51 havok55 wrote: "Yeah right" to the second to last part. If they were going to stay in Proleague, it would be a really bad decision to let Coach Park go, unless they are happy being the literal team 8 (as in last).
But anyway, good news for CJ.
Probably CJ offered a huge contract that EG can't remotely match. It's highly possible, CJ is rich after all.
That always helps but I would think CJ would be more worth his time, at the end of the day, because of their attitude that winning pro league comes first. After that then you can go play western tournaments. EGTL is more of the foreign team that gets you to foreign tournaments.
On July 22 2013 12:54 larse wrote: CJ is rich. First acquiring Blaze and Frost, and now Coach Park? So rich.
CJ is a huge entertainment group in korea. They're basically equivalent to Warner Bros in USA. So not surprised they invested into 2 LoL teams as well as coach Park. But look at the bright side, at least that means sc2 isn't completely dead in korea considering CJ thought it was worth it to invest in a new coach.
I think Coach Park will also manage those LoL teams, LoL doesn't have well established coach after all. So it's more of a confirmation on LoL's popularity, rather than SC2 being popular. Most KeSPA head coaches from rich teams also moderate their LoL teams.
I don't know about that, coach park was originally supposed to manage the LoL team on his previous team before EG, but then he got the opportunity to join EG and do the sc2 side which he chose. I am pretty sure he will be managing the sc2 or both idk.
This sucks, I wanted to see how well EGTL would play next season in the Proleague with Coach Park from the beginning. I hope EGTL still participates in the Proleague T_T
On July 22 2013 12:54 larse wrote: CJ is rich. First acquiring Blaze and Frost, and now Coach Park? So rich.
CJ is a huge entertainment group in korea. They're basically equivalent to Warner Bros in USA. So not surprised they invested into 2 LoL teams as well as coach Park. But look at the bright side, at least that means sc2 isn't completely dead in korea considering CJ thought it was worth it to invest in a new coach.
I think Coach Park will also manage those LoL teams, LoL doesn't have well established coach after all. So it's more of a confirmation on LoL's popularity, rather than SC2 being popular. Most KeSPA head coaches from rich teams also moderate their LoL teams.
Completely wrong. When CJ acquired the Frost/Blaze duo, they also acquired their head coach OnAir and his sub-ordinate Kezman. fOru rounds up the coaching staff coming from the previous CJ team.
The same applies for all the other KeSPA teams with LoL squads - KT Rolster have ZanDarke, SKT T1 have LittleBoy and Jin Air Green Wings have Ensnare.
TL:DR - LoL and SC2 divisions are operated separately.
On July 22 2013 14:21 Porishan wrote: does this mean EG-TL will leave SPL next season ?
Isnt it clear enough? , Coach Park leaves EGTL. EG organize an American TeamLeague. EG says Proleague has been very expensive. most EG players participate in WCS America.
Really sad to see. I think that if EG-TL could have retained Coach Park then they would have had a real shot at the playoffs next season. But they certainly learned a lot from him and I think their chances are far better than they were before his arrival. Hopefully EG-TL sticks with it for one more season!
On July 22 2013 14:35 Chairman Ray wrote: CJ is gonna be killer next season!
Assuming they invest in a roster. They're probably the shallowest squad in the league.
Really? CJ have 3 players in overall top 10 individual statistics, including the best zerg in hydra. Meanwhile, STX with only Bogus made to the final. If anything, we need a terran (sup Bunny) and a more consistent supporting cast.
On July 22 2013 14:35 Chairman Ray wrote: CJ is gonna be killer next season!
Assuming they invest in a roster. They're probably the shallowest squad in the league.
No they aren't . It's just that their protoss line-up kinda sucks right now . Shallowest roster is still Green Wings , followed by EGTL . CJ has good rooster , they just need to get their players out of their slump . Effort/Hydra , Bunny/Bbyoung/Skyhigh , herO/Bong and some support players is more then enough . They need to get their shit together and hopefully with coach Park it's gonna happen .
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
On July 22 2013 14:21 Porishan wrote: does this mean EG-TL will leave SPL next season ?
Isnt it clear enough? , Coach Park leaves EGTL. EG organize an American TeamLeague. EG says Proleague has been very expensive. most EG players participate in WCS America.
On July 22 2013 10:54 The_Templar wrote: What the.. Does this confirm that EGTL will not be in the next proleague?
Seems so. SPL was apparently very expensive to participate in so it wouldn't surprise me if EGTL is cutting their losses. The real question now is... Jaedong back to JinAir or no ? DD:
I believe when EG first signed JD there was something in the agreement stating that Team 8 would have to find an official sponsor if JD were to go back after the year. And they have that now.
On July 22 2013 11:02 blade55555 wrote: This obviously means EG-TL is not going to do proleague next season, lame . I don't know that'll be weird not seeing jaedong in proleague T_T.
And just as I thought it would be cool to see how EG-TL does in the next season, now that they've been doing well under coach Park. Kinda sad, and if they'd end up doing poorly I would rather see a replacement team. At least the Koreans have more excuse to change teams now.
Only reason why I watch proleague is EG-TL. Sad..... even if they stay in it, I don't think anyone can replace coach Park Was really looking forward to see how they would do with him coaching a full season.
good stuff park the eg-tl team was way too gone for even you to help them. CJ lineup + park might be able to compete with the WJ lineup + coaching staff, but i sorta doubt it ; )
huge loss for EG-TL, they know they can't compete with trOt as headcoach (no offense meant), so it's either they find another big gun or they withdraw... I tend to lean towards the second option but it would mean no more JD right?
Kind of makes sense, there isn't as much need to commit to PL when you have WCS and players in nearly all the regions competing and advertising sponsors. If your bases are covered why do more?
This is so god damn huge. Coach Park was such an asset for EG-TL, if they don't get a proper coach soon then they probably shouldn't participate in pro league.
By the way "in b4" JD also leaves EG to re-join T8 or something. q_q poor EG.
Well guess EGTL don't think this Pro League adventure is going to last to much longer? Or not for the foreseeable future? I can't see why else they would let a really good coach leave them for any other reason.
EG-TL not being in Pro League any longer would be kind of sad. I think they did a great job getting lots of new fans to watch (and love) PL!! On the other hand, trying to compete in there requires a much bigger focus on having a capable group of players in Korea at all times with no other competition being more important. That would mean much less exposure in foreign tournaments. I don't see that happen...
Well, I just hope we see EG-TL in the next season of SPL. I really liked Park, he seemed very respectable. It doesn't surprise me at all that he chooses to go on and work with another Kespa team.
In some ways the SC2 scene is getting a little sad. The Korean teamleagues are fragmented. It seems like they'd rather save face and avoid change, than play for the honour of being the best. The foreign scene is torn between more seemingly fruitless attempts at participating in the Korean leagues, and building leagues of their own. Once upon a time Team Liquid was sending foreign players to play with the best of the best in Korea. EG wanted to be a team of superstars? What's the goal now?
On the other hand, the game and the players are as good as ever (lots of people will disagree, but the dissenters have been there since the beginning). Maybe a dark age will improve things, weed out some of the bad ideas.
On July 22 2013 17:06 IcookTacos wrote: Well, I just hope we see EG-TL in the next season of SPL. I really liked Park, he seemed very respectable. It doesn't surprise me at all that he chooses to go on and work with another Kespa team.
we were cheering for you at DreamHack Summer just because of your name
Boy I can't believe that this is it for the EG-TL / Coach Park relationship! Seems like it was all over before we could really see the full benefits reaped from Coach Park's presence.
Best of luck to Coach Park and EG-TL in the future!
I hope EG-TL stays in Proleague. It really felt like it helped a lot of their players immensely being in that environment.
The debate regarding why Koreans are so much better than foreigners often goes back to the point that they have the culture and infrastructure while foreigners do not. It's such a pity to see a "foreign" team establish a training house with the Korean practice structure and pro-gaming environment only to give up on it after just 1 season when it was becoming really apparent how much it was helping their players. They talk a lot of RoI, but isn't being able to produce better players who place high at more tournaments and increase the brand's exposure part of that return?
EG-TL's improvement under his leadership is really there for all to see. He's a great coach and I can't say I'm surprised a team like CJ picked him up. All the best with his new adventures! I do hope EG-TL will stay in PL though. Unless LG-IM is replacing them hahahaha.
On July 22 2013 10:54 The_Templar wrote: What the.. Does this confirm that EGTL will not be in the next proleague?
Maybe not, but it does indicate they're very unsure as to their future participation. If they were even 75% sure they would play next year they wouldn't have let Coach Park go and may have tried to give him a better offer or something.
With this announcement I severely doubt that EG-TL will compete next year in SPL. It's still going to be 8th teams when EG-TL leaves because of that other team soon joining the ranks.
really sad I love coach park so this is very very very sad.
Perhaps EG-TL had to rid themselves of some expenses in Korea? In order to continue their participation? Maybe with Coach Park gone they could afford to stay in SPL, who knows... but feels unlikely :c
I really hope teams like EG and TL realize the worth of SPL. It's the best team league there is, withdrawal from the only teamleague that matters would be a very sad and bad choice IMO I really hope they realize the importance of SPL and that they stay in the league no matter the costs
I'm a glad for Coach Park, but I am also disappointed b/c we lost a great coach. Was really looking forward to EGTL's results for next season (assuming, we enter next season).
I would like to know, why they think Proleague is too expensive:
-they said they will keep their Korean house anyway (so paying for the house is not the problem) -they said they also want to keep Jaedong anyway (so players are not a problem - although maybe they have too big of a roster to pay it all now?) -the 100k deposit is returnable afaik, so they will get those money back and can use them to participate in next season
So that basically leaves us with coach salary. They even said, that coach Park was more expensive then any of the players in their lineup, including JD and Stephano. So, imo, whether they stay in SPL or leave will depend on if they can find a good coach (not coach-Park good, but good), who speaks at least a little english and is more affordable.
On July 22 2013 18:17 Ammanas wrote: I would like to know, why they think Proleague is too expensive:
-they said they will keep their Korean house anyway (so paying for the house is not the problem) -they said they also want to keep Jaedong anyway (so players are not a problem - although maybe they have too big of a roster to pay it all now?) -the 100k deposit is returnable afaik, so they will get those money back and can use them to participate in next season
So that basically leaves us with coach salary. They even said, that coach Park was more expensive then any of the players in their lineup, including JD and Stephano. So, imo, whether they stay in SPL or leave will depend on if they can find a good coach (not coach-Park good, but good), who speaks at least a little english and is more affordable.
Incontrol says it costs a lot of keep enough players in Korea to compete(and coach park is likely part of that cost) and focus on proleague, while the amount of exposure for EG and TL is not amazing. Since EG and TL have western sponsors, that isn't shocking.
On July 22 2013 18:23 SlixSC wrote: "a recent analysis posted on TL.net outlined in detailed fashion the improvement EG-TL saw under his leadership"
Can I have a link to that analysis please? I need something interesting to read
GL to coach park, best coach
I think they may refer to my analysis on EG-TL's proleague performance (link), but I can't be sure since they did not link anything the writeup.
Overall, I agree that this is only bad news for EG-TL, and it looks more and more likely that they will be leaving Proleague. I thought with Park from the get go they could probably achieve playoffs in the 2nd season, but now that he is gone it looks really grim.
On July 22 2013 18:23 SlixSC wrote: "a recent analysis posted on TL.net outlined in detailed fashion the improvement EG-TL saw under his leadership"
Can I have a link to that analysis please? I need something interesting to read
GL to coach park, best coach
I think they may refer to my analysis on EG-TL's proleague performance (link), but I can't be sure since they did not link anything the writeup.
Overall, I agree that this is only bad news for EG-TL, and it looks more and more likely that they will be leaving Proleague. I thought with Park from the get go they could probably achieve playoffs in the 2nd season, but now that he is gone it looks really grim.
He is an expensive man to have and Proleague might not be making them back the money that justifies them keeping him on.
It'd be upsetting if EG-TL left Proleague however if they do remain in Proleague (seems like a slim chance of this occuring), hopefully coach trOt can help them and I am sure they will keep some of the habits that Coach Park probably implemented.
So a) they are mentally retarded or b) they will not be in proleague next season, I mean park is easily one of the best coaches in the entire scene, if not the best, would be stupid to let him go if you want to stay in PL.
I highly doubt PL will see 7 teams next season, I suspect that PL will stay on break till october, maybe even longer, gom seems interested to run a gstl s2 this year so I say no more proleague till gstl season 2 is done and then we should see a merger between the leagues. Axiom/Acer, Prime and NSHS will either stick around for a season and finish last or disband after gstl s2, thus I say 2014 PL should have SKT1, KT, CJ, Khan, STX (I don't think they'll disband tbh) Wongjin, Jinair, LGIM, MVP, Startale and probably FXO, which tbh would be SICK. But I kinda have the feeling that now that all individual leagues are WCS (fuck you too blizzard) Gom really wants to hold on to gstl, but blizz did mention a desire to integrate team leagues into wcs next year, so maybe we'll just have WCS KR Team League S1 GSTL, S2 PL etc.
@DarkPlasmaBall: He left SKT because they wanted him to do LoL and EGTL was probably like "yeah you go to cj, we gg proleague".
Would be nice to just merge GSTL with PL or something even I know that probably won't happen. I stopped following gstl at all once PL for SC2 started anyway.
On July 22 2013 20:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: First he leaves SKT, and now EGTL
Best of luck to Park in the future... he's the man! And good luck to EGTL as well
He follows the money. The man is well paid for his coaching skills.
I think it should be clear to anyone that this is the better career choice for him. EGTL's future in PL isn't even a sure thing.
It coach park had stayed, it would be a sure thing. It is just a questions of how hard they are going to double down on proleague, which may not be that hard. The man cost a lot of money to employee and CJ may have offered him more than EGTL was willing or able to offer.
On July 22 2013 20:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: First he leaves SKT, and now EGTL
Best of luck to Park in the future... he's the man! And good luck to EGTL as well
He follows the money. The man is well paid for his coaching skills.
he left skt to be with his kids (edit: actually it may just be wife. I forget if he has kids); he got "the itch" to coach again, and let's be honest, it's probably the best job he can get. He didn't leave SKT for the money.
On July 22 2013 20:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: First he leaves SKT, and now EGTL
Best of luck to Park in the future... he's the man! And good luck to EGTL as well
He follows the money. The man is well paid for his coaching skills.
he left skt to be with his kids (edit: actually it may just be wife. I forget if he has kids); he got "the itch" to coach again, and let's be honest, it's probably the best job he can get. He didn't leave SKT for the money.
he said multiple times skt wanted him to do lol and he didnt want do to lol
On July 22 2013 18:17 Ammanas wrote: I would like to know, why they think Proleague is too expensive:
-they said they will keep their Korean house anyway (so paying for the house is not the problem) -they said they also want to keep Jaedong anyway (so players are not a problem - although maybe they have too big of a roster to pay it all now?) -the 100k deposit is returnable afaik, so they will get those money back and can use them to participate in next season
So that basically leaves us with coach salary. They even said, that coach Park was more expensive then any of the players in their lineup, including JD and Stephano. So, imo, whether they stay in SPL or leave will depend on if they can find a good coach (not coach-Park good, but good), who speaks at least a little english and is more affordable.
Incontrol says it costs a lot of keep enough players in Korea to compete(and coach park is likely part of that cost) and focus on proleague, while the amount of exposure for EG and TL is not amazing. Since EG and TL have western sponsors, that isn't shocking.
imo, the reason being that eg-tl can't get a decent/amazing amount if exposure is most likely due to the fact that they suck (quite hard, whole season), not their western sponsors.
On July 22 2013 11:01 Seeker wrote: Hmmm.... The only answer I can come up with is that EG-TL decided not to participate in the next season of Proleague so Coach Park was up for hire.
Maybe he just wanted to work in a team with longer bench and complete focus on korean scene (as EG-TL is more focused on NA scene).
On July 22 2013 18:17 Ammanas wrote: I would like to know, why they think Proleague is too expensive:
-they said they will keep their Korean house anyway (so paying for the house is not the problem) -they said they also want to keep Jaedong anyway (so players are not a problem - although maybe they have too big of a roster to pay it all now?) -the 100k deposit is returnable afaik, so they will get those money back and can use them to participate in next season
So that basically leaves us with coach salary. They even said, that coach Park was more expensive then any of the players in their lineup, including JD and Stephano. So, imo, whether they stay in SPL or leave will depend on if they can find a good coach (not coach-Park good, but good), who speaks at least a little english and is more affordable.
Incontrol says it costs a lot of keep enough players in Korea to compete(and coach park is likely part of that cost) and focus on proleague, while the amount of exposure for EG and TL is not amazing. Since EG and TL have western sponsors, that isn't shocking.
imo, the reason being that eg-tl can't get a decent/amazing amount if exposure is most likely due to the fact that they suck (quite hard, whole season), not their western sponsors.
CJ Entus wasn't really better this season. 17-25 vs 16-26. At least EG-TL was more capable of upsetting WJS
On July 22 2013 11:02 juicyjames wrote: If there's no more EG-TL, will SPL be only 7 teams or will they try to lure some GSTL teams over? eSF-KeSPA trade lock ends in October.
I imagine some ESF teams are going to participate (I hope anyway).
Do any of them have the weight to throw around to make that happen? Maybe Startale with Redbull?
What do you mean by weight to make it happen? KeSPA will be the ones to invite them. They want more teams.
On July 22 2013 18:17 Ammanas wrote: I would like to know, why they think Proleague is too expensive:
-they said they will keep their Korean house anyway (so paying for the house is not the problem) -they said they also want to keep Jaedong anyway (so players are not a problem - although maybe they have too big of a roster to pay it all now?) -the 100k deposit is returnable afaik, so they will get those money back and can use them to participate in next season
So that basically leaves us with coach salary. They even said, that coach Park was more expensive then any of the players in their lineup, including JD and Stephano. So, imo, whether they stay in SPL or leave will depend on if they can find a good coach (not coach-Park good, but good), who speaks at least a little english and is more affordable.
Incontrol says it costs a lot of keep enough players in Korea to compete(and coach park is likely part of that cost) and focus on proleague, while the amount of exposure for EG and TL is not amazing. Since EG and TL have western sponsors, that isn't shocking.
imo, the reason being that eg-tl can't get a decent/amazing amount if exposure is most likely due to the fact that they suck (quite hard, whole season), not their western sponsors.
EG-TL had one really bad round. That's where most of the damage was done. Other than that they were pretty competitive.
Oh I am starting to wish TL woudn't behave so big-corporation-like with this press release. "With great appreciation [we] announce the departure..." Yeah, right. I would rather they say something like: "ok, that sucks that he leaves but we are still happy for him. GL in the future, hope you go easy on us in our next match ^^"
On July 22 2013 18:17 Ammanas wrote: I would like to know, why they think Proleague is too expensive:
-they said they will keep their Korean house anyway (so paying for the house is not the problem) -they said they also want to keep Jaedong anyway (so players are not a problem - although maybe they have too big of a roster to pay it all now?) -the 100k deposit is returnable afaik, so they will get those money back and can use them to participate in next season
So that basically leaves us with coach salary. They even said, that coach Park was more expensive then any of the players in their lineup, including JD and Stephano. So, imo, whether they stay in SPL or leave will depend on if they can find a good coach (not coach-Park good, but good), who speaks at least a little english and is more affordable.
Incontrol says it costs a lot of keep enough players in Korea to compete(and coach park is likely part of that cost) and focus on proleague, while the amount of exposure for EG and TL is not amazing. Since EG and TL have western sponsors, that isn't shocking.
imo, the reason being that eg-tl can't get a decent/amazing amount if exposure is most likely due to the fact that they suck (quite hard, whole season), not their western sponsors.
CJ Entus wasn't really better this season. 17-25 vs 16-26. At least EG-TL was more capable of upsetting WJS
Yeah, but it's way easier to call EGTL bad and leave it at that. Researching their standings takes way to much effort.
On July 22 2013 22:06 Waxangel wrote: I got the vibe that maybe SKT shooed him out so they could hire Boxer instead or something like that
it seemed so weird to let such a successful coach go
I got that impression as well, but I don't live in Korea. A team only has room for so many super star coaches before they start stepping on eachother toes.
I am sure it's a money issue. CJ may have just made an offer EGTL wasn't willing/able to match.
Nada, Rainbow and July need to recreate Air Force Ace since they are in service and fill EG's spot. The only way we can turn this into a positive
Sad to see EG let such a positive force in their team go. JD needs to get the hell out of there soon so he can stay competitive. I highly doubt he will benefit from a teamhouse with no coach and Naniwa in it lol. Hope that Alive and Oz don't get dropped either.
On July 22 2013 22:06 Waxangel wrote: I got the vibe that maybe SKT shooed him out so they could hire Boxer instead or something like that
it seemed so weird to let such a successful coach go
I don't know koreans' mentality but maybe he wanted a change.
Well, not really, SKT wanted him to move to coaching their LoL team, so he left because he wanted to remain in StarCraft. They were making room for BoxeR no matter what Coach Park wanted.
I feel like it would be worthwhile to keep the EG-TL team together. Hopefully the coaches under Park took notes and the players did too. But if EG-TL decided not to do it, would be kinda cool to see an ESF super star team (aka dream team) of ESF players, like a life,nestea,DRG,MVP, Byun you know.
Maybe finally these teams will invest in the infrastructure to have a team league in the west.
It must cost a fortune to maintain a house like EG-TL has in Korea. The sponsor money (for EG-TL) is in the west, and frankly the proleague production quality for the English stream was downright awful. I bet EG is thinking of re-focusing on this SC2L that they have started. Possibly live matches in the future from soCal? I bet the C/B analysis comes back way better considering their western sponsorships.
On July 22 2013 22:38 HeeroFX wrote: I feel like it would be worthwhile to keep the EG-TL team together. Hopefully the coaches under Park took notes and the players did too. But if EG-TL decided not to do it, would be kinda cool to see an ESF super star team (aka dream team) of ESF players, like a life,nestea,DRG,MVP, Byun you know.
I hope that the other staff members took notes from Coach Park as well, since there is only one of that man and every team should have good coaching. I think having him come in for a year will still be a huge help to both teams just because they were working with almost nothing before.
On July 22 2013 12:54 larse wrote: CJ is rich. First acquiring Blaze and Frost, and now Coach Park? So rich.
CJ is a huge entertainment group in korea. They're basically equivalent to Warner Bros in USA. So not surprised they invested into 2 LoL teams as well as coach Park. But look at the bright side, at least that means sc2 isn't completely dead in korea considering CJ thought it was worth it to invest in a new coach.
I think Coach Park will also manage those LoL teams, LoL doesn't have well established coach after all. So it's more of a confirmation on LoL's popularity, rather than SC2 being popular. Most KeSPA head coaches from rich teams also moderate their LoL teams.
Completely wrong. When CJ acquired the Frost/Blaze duo, they also acquired their head coach OnAir and his sub-ordinate Kezman. fOru rounds up the coaching staff coming from the previous CJ team.
The same applies for all the other KeSPA teams with LoL squads - KT Rolster have ZanDarke, SKT T1 have LittleBoy and Jin Air Green Wings have Ensnare.
TL:DR - LoL and SC2 divisions are operated separately.
Thank you for the clarification. That was really helpful. We need to be harsher on people disseminating misinformation.
I would love for the two leagues to merge. I would watch a whole lot more and cheer for the foreign teams. No foreign teams though and I lose interest fast. It would be an EPIC league still. I've been travelling these last few months and have only been able to catch a few eg-tl and axiom/acer matches in internet cafes around south east asia. Better casting for pl would do wonders imo. I wish we knew more about blizzards plans for leagues, individual and potential team leagues to help teams(and fans) plan into the next year. Must be hard to make decisions when you don't have the complete picture. For example, will there be more studio matches in na in the future... Residency requirements maybe? The location of such a studio is also important if you plan a long term team house... So much unknowns for us the fans right now. Hopefully he teams have more info
On July 22 2013 22:38 HeeroFX wrote: I feel like it would be worthwhile to keep the EG-TL team together. Hopefully the coaches under Park took notes and the players did too. But if EG-TL decided not to do it, would be kinda cool to see an ESF super star team (aka dream team) of ESF players, like a life,nestea,DRG,MVP, Byun you know.
You do realize trOt was on the SKT coaching staff prior to the EG stint right? *raises eyebrow* It's okay guys soon all of EG's woes will be resolved when Dario teaches them the ways of the beard.
The bearded one cometh. In just one week we will see noticeable improvement in their facial hair.
He was the lifeline to hoping for another season of EG-TL in Proleague. So much about that. Going back now to how things were before Coach Park just doesn't make much sense. Really a shame.
If EG-TL bails, EST should just create a single all-star team from the best players of all teams :D That would be so baller. Would prob be hard to get them to work together like any all-star team but still, amaze
On July 22 2013 23:16 Shadow_Dog wrote: Why do people think that the next season of PL is a guarantee? IIRC it took them long time to find the sponsor for the current one. Think about that.
EG-TL's success in the next season of Proleague is dependent on several factors. Will Jaedong opt to stay with EG or go back to Jin Air? Will STX really go into administration and either force KeSPA to keep their team afloat or disband? Will EG use the money they'd gain from losing lucrative contracts with IdrA, Stephano and Jaedong to pick up Innovation? Would Liquid finally pick up a good Terran that isn't Taeja? Would KeSPA open the floodgates for eSF teams and if so, how many and which ones?
And about EG-TL's proleague future, I don't know. It is the only team in proleague that sends their best players (HerO, Jaedong and Taeja) to foreign LANs almost every time there is an opportunity. I can't believe that there would be such a huge skill difference between other proleague teams and EG-TL, but it is rather about priorities. World outside of KeSPA has never a had a thing like the proleague, even GSTL is not that huge, it is all about the individual championships. If EG-TL wants to be a playoff contender in next proleague either they have to have the top players practicing for proleague and WCS in Korea or they have to make a cleaner cut between the ''proleague EG-TL'' and the ''LAN EG and TL''. What I mean by this is basically they need more Stephanos, people who say that they wont even try the proleague, but rather focus on LAN's and then others who will be the backbone of the proleague roster.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
Real professionals market themselves by being the best at their field, not being the loudest. There's a difference between how EG operates compared to Korean teams. EG buys known players and whore them around to every event they can. Kespa teams focus on building a solid team, nurturing talent, and let their hard work do the talking.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
Real professionals market themselves by being the best at their field, not being the loudest. There's a difference between how EG operates compared to Korean teams. EG buys known players and whore them around to every event they can. Kespa teams focus on building a solid team, nurturing talent, and let their hard work do the talking.
It helps when your broadcast on national TV several nights a week and the local government makes military exceptions for your players. One of the more important members in Kespa is also part of the Korean government, which is likely helpful. When EG can pull strings in the US congress, I think they will be on the same level. It makes it way easier to focus on talent when the small stuff, like paying everyone is taken care of. Until the, EG is still a scrappy upstart trying to make its way to the big time.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
except that Samsung, STX, SKTelecom, KT, Hanbit/WJS, CJ have been around for what, more than one decade. The only foreign organization that has been active equally or longer is Schroet Kommando (but mostly due to smart investment on various games). You cant deny that being sponsored by these Korean chaebols is the best thing one gaming entity could possibly wish for.
On July 23 2013 01:33 havok55 wrote: It's a shame player improvement doesn't get calculated into an esport team's ROI.
Alex Garfield has been pushing for more information and viewer numbers to be released to teams by the major events(MLG, Dreamhack, maybe WCS?). Right now, he doesn't get any useful data on viewer numbers when someone like Jaedong makes it to the finals of Dreamhack. So he and EG can only tell his sponsors that it was good for them, but can't prove it(Sponsors will not accept stream numbers or the press releases from Dreamhack and MLG as useful, from what Alex Garfield has said). Because he doesn't ahve that data to prove to his sponsors that getting to the finals was worth their money, he has to generate numbers other ways, through streams and other data to prove the sponship is worth it.
So you are correct that player improvement isn't calculated into ROI, but its not all EG's fault. They would like to be able to provide those numbers to sponsors, but they simply do not have them right now.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
except that Samsung, STX, SKTelecom, KT, Hanbit/WJS, CJ have been around for what, more than one decade. The only foreign organization that has been active equally or longer is Schroet Kommando (but mostly due to smart investment on various games). You cant deny that being sponsored by these Korean chaebols is the best thing one gaming entity could possibly wish for.
Of course it must be great and I am sure that every NA team would do much better if they were backed by a large company like Microsoft, GM or Ford. The amount of things they would not have to care about would free them up to double down on becoming the best teams possible. But we are not there yet.
Happy for CJ, a bit sad that EGTL loses it's most important piece. I can't see them being competitive next year unless they get another good coach, if they even decide to continue.
I dont think players getting better is something that even needs to be specifically quantified to investors. It's something that speaks for itself.
Better players means better results which yields more respect from the community, more fans, and more limelight in the winner's circle. Both individually and for the whole team, which is what sponsors want.
Seems like a no-brainer. If you sponsor a team, it's in your best interest if they have the best players. You want them to have the reputation of a champion.
On July 22 2013 14:51 FrogsAreDogs wrote: Wow what the fuck. Really?
In the eyes of a professional, Proleague should be an obstacle to be overcome, not chicken away from. I feel like EG-TL just lacks this competitive mentality completely.
Too bad EG is just a marketing company. I feel bad for all the Koreans who were starting to get back into shape, that didnt last long.
All Esports Teams are marketing companies, it is how they pay people. All of the Proleague teams are sponsored by large, korean companies. If those sponsorships get pulled, the team fails.
Real professionals market themselves by being the best at their field, not being the loudest. There's a difference between how EG operates compared to Korean teams. EG buys known players and whore them around to every event they can. Kespa teams focus on building a solid team, nurturing talent, and let their hard work do the talking.
It helps when your broadcast on national TV several nights a week and the local government makes military exceptions for your players. One of the more important members in Kespa is also part of the Korean government, which is likely helpful. When EG can pull strings in the US congress, I think they will be on the same level. It makes it way easier to focus on talent when the small stuff, like paying everyone is taken care of. Until the, EG is still a scrappy upstart trying to make its way to the big time.
Not saying you are wrong to differentiate between Samsung Khan and EG in terms of money/power/etc, but you are probably being a little too generous and sympathetic to EG by calling them a "scrappy upstart". EG generates a LOT of money, and probably pay their players staff and CEO more than just about any team out there. (barring players like Flash, Boxer or MVP who make large salaries). EG has also been around and on top of esports for a pretty long time...dating back at least to my knowledge the counterstrike days of CGS (oh the drama). They have tons of sponsors exposure and name recognition, and not just in Starcraft 2. They just don't have as much of that in the Korean market, because they haven't existed there for more than a year or 2. They would have to work hard there and probably pick up some korean businessmen/women to represent EG over there and seems like Alex Garfield likes to do everything himself rather than try to expand. As much as people give credit to Mr. Garfield for the growth of EG, I have this feeling that he has also hindered it, otherwise we would have seen some large Intel/Samsung/LG sized title sponsorship by now with the fame and multiple game depth EG has in the esports world..
On July 23 2013 02:12 havok55 wrote: I dont think players getting better is something that even needs to be specifically quantified to investors. It's something that speaks for itself.
Better players means better results which yields more respect from the community, more fans, and more limelight in the winner's circle. Both individually and for the whole team, which is what sponsors want.
I think you might be mistaken as to what sponsors want. They want numbers to prove they are getting a return and don't want to hear about anecdotal evidence. The money that they give to teams is money that could go someplace else. If that side has solid numbers to show and RIO and the team cannot produce similar data, its a hard sell to keep the sponsor. FXOboss and the head of Dignitas talked about how hard it is to keep sponsors without good numbers to back up the claims.
I can definitely see LG-IM going into Proleague. I just don't see the other ESF teams having rosters that can compete when it's not all-kill format except Startale but that just might be me. They'll have to practice to beat specific opponents rather just be overall standard good.
As for EG-TL, seems like they're done with Proleague. I can't really blame them since they have their star players traveling a bunch and it's costly to play. But then again, Jaedong not in PL? What's he going to be doing all day? He's still has until December for his contract to end.
I really have a problem with esport fanboys when they start comparing EG to some of the biggest industrial conglomerates in the world, as good as they can be in their feild.
For brands like Samsung, SKT, KT, STX, Starcraft is just television exposure and marketing, simply because it's a really big "sport" in their country (if soccer was the biggest, or whatever other sport, Pro League wouldn't even exist). Sponsorship is the only way to support a team in Pro League. EG is just way to far of that and need to generate ROI, which is definatly not something you can hope from a game with the exposure SC2 has, especially outside of Korea, which is the only region in the world where being exposed in SC2 is something profitable.
And Samsung, LG, Redbull, SKT, KT all have alot more money to putt in their team than EG will ever have from all their sponsors.
On July 22 2013 23:16 Shadow_Dog wrote: Why do people think that the next season of PL is a guarantee? IIRC it took them long time to find the sponsor for the current one. Think about that.
As long as the new LOL Proleague exists, SC2 will tag along, at least for another season.
On July 23 2013 03:48 Neonico wrote: I really have a problem with esport fanboys when they start comparing EG to some of the biggest industrial conglomerates in the world, as good as they can be in their feild.
For brands like Samsung, SKT, KT, STX, Starcraft is just television exposure and marketing, simply because it's a really big "sport" in their country (if soccer was the biggest, or whatever other sport, Pro League wouldn't even exist). Sponsorship is the only way to support a team in Pro League. EG is just way to far of that and need to generate ROI, which is definatly not something you can hope from a game with the exposure SC2 has, especially outside of Korea, which is the only region in the world where being exposed in SC2 is something profitable.
And Samsung, LG, Redbull, SKT, KT all have alot more money to putt in their team than EG will ever have from all their sponsors.
true, yet with few exceptions they dont pay big salaries to players like EG does and their players have to work harder anyway.
The difference comes from having to win or not, and having to have a ROI or not.... Any KeSPA teamm will still have the same budget next year, winning the Pro League or being last.
And with the ritirement of Stephano, EG isn't actually different than any korean team : they have one big star with one big salary (And my guess is that of all the star players in Pro League, Jaedong has one of the lowest salary), and all other players are (my guess) payed the same they would be in any ESF/KeSPA team in Korea. The main difference I can think of is the B-Teamers. The main problem for EG has allways been the salary they gave to players like Puma. And they seem to have changed their minds about this.
On July 23 2013 02:12 havok55 wrote: I dont think players getting better is something that even needs to be specifically quantified to investors. It's something that speaks for itself.
Better players means better results which yields more respect from the community, more fans, and more limelight in the winner's circle. Both individually and for the whole team, which is what sponsors want.
I think you might be mistaken as to what sponsors want. They want numbers to prove they are getting a return and don't want to hear about anecdotal evidence. The money that they give to teams is money that could go someplace else. If that side has solid numbers to show and RIO and the team cannot produce similar data, its a hard sell to keep the sponsor. FXOboss and the head of Dignitas talked about how hard it is to keep sponsors without good numbers to back up the claims.
Nothing speaks for itself in the business world.
Sponsors want winners. Why do you think EG keeps buying up players right after they won a big tournament and were in the limelight? Huk, Puma, Thorzain, etc etc. Sponsors want their name attached to a winning team, a winning player. Having your company logo on some guy who just streams a lot is chump change for returns. They want their name spoken every time a team is mentioned, preferably for winning some prestigious international tournament, and they want it to happen all the time.
Are you telling me cultivating better players, making sure your top players stay competitive and in the limelight, is bad for sponsors?
On July 23 2013 02:12 havok55 wrote: I dont think players getting better is something that even needs to be specifically quantified to investors. It's something that speaks for itself.
Better players means better results which yields more respect from the community, more fans, and more limelight in the winner's circle. Both individually and for the whole team, which is what sponsors want.
I think you might be mistaken as to what sponsors want. They want numbers to prove they are getting a return and don't want to hear about anecdotal evidence. The money that they give to teams is money that could go someplace else. If that side has solid numbers to show and RIO and the team cannot produce similar data, its a hard sell to keep the sponsor. FXOboss and the head of Dignitas talked about how hard it is to keep sponsors without good numbers to back up the claims.
Nothing speaks for itself in the business world.
Sponsors want winners. Why do you think EG keeps buying up players right after they won a big tournament and were in the limelight? Huk, Puma, Thorzain, etc etc. Sponsors want their name attached to a winning team, a winning player. Having your company logo on some guy who just streams a lot is chump change for returns. They want their name spoken every time a team is mentioned, preferably for winning some prestigious international tournament, and they want it to happen all the time.
Are you're telling me cultivating better players, making sure your top players stay competitive and in the limelight, is bad for sponsors?
LG-IM notoriously kept sending out unknown players in gstl when they had in prime form mvp, mc, nestea
LG-IM is doing pretty good now I reckon
On topic I do wonder why egtl let coach park go, matching their offer with papa johns coming should have been possible.
On July 23 2013 02:12 havok55 wrote: I dont think players getting better is something that even needs to be specifically quantified to investors. It's something that speaks for itself.
Better players means better results which yields more respect from the community, more fans, and more limelight in the winner's circle. Both individually and for the whole team, which is what sponsors want.
I think you might be mistaken as to what sponsors want. They want numbers to prove they are getting a return and don't want to hear about anecdotal evidence. The money that they give to teams is money that could go someplace else. If that side has solid numbers to show and RIO and the team cannot produce similar data, its a hard sell to keep the sponsor. FXOboss and the head of Dignitas talked about how hard it is to keep sponsors without good numbers to back up the claims.
Nothing speaks for itself in the business world.
Sponsors want winners. Why do you think EG keeps buying up players right after they won a big tournament and were in the limelight? Huk, Puma, Thorzain, etc etc. Sponsors want their name attached to a winning team, a winning player. Having your company logo on some guy who just streams a lot is chump change for returns. They want their name spoken every time a team is mentioned, preferably for winning some prestigious international tournament, and they want it to happen all the time.
Are you're telling me cultivating better players, making sure your top players stay competitive and in the limelight, is bad for sponsors?
No, I am telling you EXACTLY what Alex Garfield said. That it is hard to sell sponsors that being at the finals of a tournament was good for them as a whole and that it is easier to do if you have hard data. Since they don't have the hard data, EG has other routes and shows, such as streaming, to generate proof that the sponsor is getting a return on their ROI.
This is not some weird, abstract theory I am talking about here. It is informed provided by Alex Garfield saying that right now winning is important, but they also need to focus on having the hard data to provide to sponsors to keep them. All this things you said may be good for sponsors, but without proof in the form of hard data, they will not assume it is good for them.
On July 23 2013 02:12 havok55 wrote: I dont think players getting better is something that even needs to be specifically quantified to investors. It's something that speaks for itself.
Better players means better results which yields more respect from the community, more fans, and more limelight in the winner's circle. Both individually and for the whole team, which is what sponsors want.
I think you might be mistaken as to what sponsors want. They want numbers to prove they are getting a return and don't want to hear about anecdotal evidence. The money that they give to teams is money that could go someplace else. If that side has solid numbers to show and RIO and the team cannot produce similar data, its a hard sell to keep the sponsor. FXOboss and the head of Dignitas talked about how hard it is to keep sponsors without good numbers to back up the claims.
Nothing speaks for itself in the business world.
Sponsors want winners. Why do you think EG keeps buying up players right after they won a big tournament and were in the limelight? Huk, Puma, Thorzain, etc etc. Sponsors want their name attached to a winning team, a winning player. Having your company logo on some guy who just streams a lot is chump change for returns. They want their name spoken every time a team is mentioned, preferably for winning some prestigious international tournament, and they want it to happen all the time.
Are you're telling me cultivating better players, making sure your top players stay competitive and in the limelight, is bad for sponsors?
LG-IM notoriously kept sending out unknown players in gstl when they had in prime form mvp, mc, nestea
LG-IM is doing pretty good now I reckon
On topic I do wonder why egtl let coach park go, matching their offer with papa johns coming should have been possible.
LGIM was known to not give a shit about GSTL. It was a joke league that only the bottom teams took seriously (until very recently when it actually got a decent prize pool). So LGIM used it as a training ground for their trainees to get used to playing live. And players like Nestea didnt like being played in GSTL because he couldn't prepare for it.
Not sure why you even brought up LGIM though. LGIM is a Korean team, with a coaching staff and training regiments for their players. Maybe not to the extent of Kespa, but certainly not "do whatever you want" like EG.
On July 23 2013 02:48 jinorazi wrote: well, i think its ok. what EGTL can do is keep the infrastructure that coach park has laid out and a leader needs to step up or recruited.
i think coach park did enough teaching "plus and minus" so that EGTL can continue to figure out "division and multiplication" and beyond.
Hmm... They need a new coach and 1 or 2 more solid players who will stay in the house and commit to PL. Their remaining coach (trOt?) had some really really bad decisions when picking the player order while he was head coach. The occasional foreigner (apart from Stephano) did not do well and apart from Taeja, who is wrist-icapped and sometimes travelling and Hero who is known to choking, even if improving, they don"t have a reliable ace player. (was that enough relative sentences? )
I'd like to see both EG and TeamLiquid partner with KeSPA teams separately similar to the old days of foreigner teams partnering with eSF teams. The difference is the KeSPA training regiment is no joke. That's how you become the best at Starcraft.
On July 23 2013 07:08 Arco wrote: I'd like to see both EG and TeamLiquid partner with KeSPA teams separately similar to the old days of foreigner teams partnering with eSF teams. The difference is the KeSPA training regiment is no joke. That's how you become the best at Starcraft.
I'm sick of those partnerships. If you want to stay stay. Don't just come here to train for three months. It's a commitment that very few are willing to take. You should never half ass anything & it takes a really long time to reach one's true potential. Want some examples? Flash and Jaedong still have a long way to go and no one questions their work ethic.
I double hope they partner up with someone else, EG-Axiom would be a personal favorite for me. :D Back to the good 'ol Slayers-EG days... maybe EG-Mvp? EG-IM would be fine, but I really dont like IM so that'd make me a little sad, but happy. Confusing feels.
In the end I hope EG stays, I find it so hard to give a crap about Proleague when theres not a team that I can really care about (aside from SKT because Parting <3<3)
EDIT: I at least hope they find another coach of Coach Park's quality. His effect on EG-TL in Proleague was really impressive, and it speaks for his talent.
On July 23 2013 07:36 Zambrah wrote: I hope EG stays in Proleague.
I double hope they partner up with someone else, EG-Axiom would be a personal favorite for me. :D Back to the good 'ol Slayers-EG days... maybe EG-Mvp? EG-IM would be fine, but I really dont like IM so that'd make me a little sad, but happy. Confusing feels.
In the end I hope EG stays, I find it so hard to give a crap about Proleague when theres not a team that I can really care about (aside from SKT because Parting <3<3)
EDIT: I at least hope they find another coach of Coach Park's quality. His effect on EG-TL in Proleague was really impressive, and it speaks for his talent.
What? Axiom already said they will be in the next season of GSTL and IM could join on their own since their lineup is way more stacked then EG.
Considering that EG is starting a new teamleague in US i say the chances are very very low for another PL season. It would be even more halfassed then this one.
On July 23 2013 07:36 Zambrah wrote: I hope EG stays in Proleague.
I double hope they partner up with someone else, EG-Axiom would be a personal favorite for me. :D Back to the good 'ol Slayers-EG days... maybe EG-Mvp? EG-IM would be fine, but I really dont like IM so that'd make me a little sad, but happy. Confusing feels.
In the end I hope EG stays, I find it so hard to give a crap about Proleague when theres not a team that I can really care about (aside from SKT because Parting <3<3)
EDIT: I at least hope they find another coach of Coach Park's quality. His effect on EG-TL in Proleague was really impressive, and it speaks for his talent.
What? Axiom already said they will be in the next season of GSTL and IM could join on their own since their lineup is way more stacked then EG.
Considering that EG is starting a new teamleague in US i say the chances are very very low for another PL season. It would be even more halfassed then this one.
Its more of a personal desire for me to see these things happen than them happening in any likelihood. At this point I'm on the boat of thought that EG and TL just flat out aren't going to be in Proleague.
On July 23 2013 06:05 skatblast wrote: Just cut ties with team liquid imo and join gstl. They only contribute 1 (sometimes 2) players anyway.
Tat would be a big misstake, they simply need HerO and mainly Taeja, espacially in a full all-kill format league.
For the GSTL, it would be better for EG to go at it by themselves. The EG-TL partnership was necessary for PL, but it has basically destroyed the greatest rivalry in Starcraft outside of Korea.
On July 23 2013 09:19 rift wrote: http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/ kespa's media arm - top of site has LGIM, MVP logos next to the rest of the Kespa sc2 teams
Good find. However, if both LG-IM and MVP join that would make 9 teams (without EG-TL).
It doesn't really matter if the number of teams is uneven with round robin, they could even make the playoffs top 5 and do an additional round like they did when there were 10+ teams.
On July 23 2013 02:12 havok55 wrote: I dont think players getting better is something that even needs to be specifically quantified to investors. It's something that speaks for itself.
Better players means better results which yields more respect from the community, more fans, and more limelight in the winner's circle. Both individually and for the whole team, which is what sponsors want.
I think you might be mistaken as to what sponsors want. They want numbers to prove they are getting a return and don't want to hear about anecdotal evidence. The money that they give to teams is money that could go someplace else. If that side has solid numbers to show and RIO and the team cannot produce similar data, its a hard sell to keep the sponsor. FXOboss and the head of Dignitas talked about how hard it is to keep sponsors without good numbers to back up the claims.
Nothing speaks for itself in the business world.
Sponsors want winners. Why do you think EG keeps buying up players right after they won a big tournament and were in the limelight? Huk, Puma, Thorzain, etc etc. Sponsors want their name attached to a winning team, a winning player. Having your company logo on some guy who just streams a lot is chump change for returns. They want their name spoken every time a team is mentioned, preferably for winning some prestigious international tournament, and they want it to happen all the time.
Are you're telling me cultivating better players, making sure your top players stay competitive and in the limelight, is bad for sponsors?
No, I am telling you EXACTLY what Alex Garfield said. That it is hard to sell sponsors that being at the finals of a tournament was good for them as a whole and that it is easier to do if you have hard data. Since they don't have the hard data, EG has other routes and shows, such as streaming, to generate proof that the sponsor is getting a return on their ROI.
This is not some weird, abstract theory I am talking about here. It is informed provided by Alex Garfield saying that right now winning is important, but they also need to focus on having the hard data to provide to sponsors to keep them. All this things you said may be good for sponsors, but without proof in the form of hard data, they will not assume it is good for them.
There are very few players that can stay relevant in the community if they are not winning or placing well at tournaments.
What is not concrete about the spike in viewership on your stream after winning a major tournament? You have Stardust, Snute, Thorzain, Naniwa, etc., who were all relative unknowns until their big runs. I can't imagine it being hard to get their stream numbers before their big runs and compare it to their stream numbers after their big runs. You think Flash's stream won't pull huge numbers when he finally does stream? He didn't get to that level of popularity by doing nothing. He got there by winning. Nothing is anecdotal about that. If he was some Kespa B-teamer that never won anything, he would not have the popularity he currently enjoys.
After you have already won a lot and after you are already a top player, I don't think winning matters as much -- so long as you are still somewhat relevant. Even in the cases of Idra and Incontrol, winning was that foot in the door that let them squeeze into different roles. I guess if you are EG and prefer to just buy players after they've already reached that level it doesn't matter. But, to ignore winning's impact on "other routes and shows, such as streaming" because its impact is not "concrete" when it is very much tangible is stupid.
Despite what the message says, this is pretty much death for EG-TL continuiing in proleague, and even if they do, it means they will suck HARD again. :'(
Proleague is just too hard for foreigners team to compete, especially with all the WCS in different regions. It's more beneficial to focus on that instead.
Hope they can find another coach who can bring the same improvement. If they decide to continue to compete in spl. CJ already was my favorite kespa team now with coach park I will be cheering for them even more.
On July 22 2013 18:17 Ammanas wrote: I would like to know, why they think Proleague is too expensive:
-they said they will keep their Korean house anyway (so paying for the house is not the problem) -they said they also want to keep Jaedong anyway (so players are not a problem - although maybe they have too big of a roster to pay it all now?) -the 100k deposit is returnable afaik, so they will get those money back and can use them to participate in next season
So that basically leaves us with coach salary. They even said, that coach Park was more expensive then any of the players in their lineup, including JD and Stephano. So, imo, whether they stay in SPL or leave will depend on if they can find a good coach (not coach-Park good, but good), who speaks at least a little english and is more affordable.
Incontrol says it costs a lot of keep enough players in Korea to compete(and coach park is likely part of that cost) and focus on proleague, while the amount of exposure for EG and TL is not amazing. Since EG and TL have western sponsors, that isn't shocking.
imo, the reason being that eg-tl can't get a decent/amazing amount if exposure is most likely due to the fact that they suck (quite hard, whole season), not their western sponsors.
CJ Entus wasn't really better this season. 17-25 vs 16-26. At least EG-TL was more capable of upsetting WJS
On July 22 2013 18:17 Ammanas wrote: I would like to know, why they think Proleague is too expensive:
-they said they will keep their Korean house anyway (so paying for the house is not the problem) -they said they also want to keep Jaedong anyway (so players are not a problem - although maybe they have too big of a roster to pay it all now?) -the 100k deposit is returnable afaik, so they will get those money back and can use them to participate in next season
So that basically leaves us with coach salary. They even said, that coach Park was more expensive then any of the players in their lineup, including JD and Stephano. So, imo, whether they stay in SPL or leave will depend on if they can find a good coach (not coach-Park good, but good), who speaks at least a little english and is more affordable.
Incontrol says it costs a lot of keep enough players in Korea to compete(and coach park is likely part of that cost) and focus on proleague, while the amount of exposure for EG and TL is not amazing. Since EG and TL have western sponsors, that isn't shocking.
imo, the reason being that eg-tl can't get a decent/amazing amount if exposure is most likely due to the fact that they suck (quite hard, whole season), not their western sponsors.
CJ Entus wasn't really better this season. 17-25 vs 16-26. At least EG-TL was more capable of upsetting WJS
Yeah, but it's way easier to call EGTL bad and leave it at that. Researching their standings takes way to much effort.
thing is, cj is a team with a rich history and a team that was a home to many osl & msl champions, including a former bonjwa. eg-tl is a new team that happened to perform quite bad. how can anyone that sees them for the first time identify with that?
I guess he just took his leave, in case EG-TL won´t be in next PL. And since WCS/OSL/GSL and ESF-Teams are not quite stable at the moment. NSH to disband, others leaning to LoL....
What makes a team popular is not entirely them winning, it is about player personalities as a band of brothers. We admire them for not only what they do, but who they are individually and how they interact collectively.
Sponsors of old used to be interested in the winner champion only, and switching their loyalty accordingly. But browse the signatures of posters here and you find many affirmations of loyalty to many a team dear to them, and a team not likely to have ever switched.
I have never followed EG-TL as closely as I have during the recent run of Proleague, and I have enjoyed every painful second and celebrated every joyous victory. And it was fantastic. And I love what coach Park did. And I am going to miss him. And I think EG-TL can do this.
Kespa, do what you gotta do. I don't care if that means making sure that EG-TL stays in Proleague, or just that JD goes back (to Green Wings?), but it needs to happen. JD needs to stay in Proleague. Period.
EG having JD leave WCS KR for US was already a big enough transgression. The line must be drawn here.
I think it might be worth considering for EGTL the massive improvement that most of their players have seen during the PL season. Does anybody really think they would have gotten 3 of top 4 at IEM Shanghai (for instance) if not for Proleague and Park's training?
EPT
ZanDarke
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