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On July 23 2013 04:29 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 04:14 havok55 wrote:On July 23 2013 02:20 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 02:12 havok55 wrote:
I dont think players getting better is something that even needs to be specifically quantified to investors. It's something that speaks for itself.
Better players means better results which yields more respect from the community, more fans, and more limelight in the winner's circle. Both individually and for the whole team, which is what sponsors want. I think you might be mistaken as to what sponsors want. They want numbers to prove they are getting a return and don't want to hear about anecdotal evidence. The money that they give to teams is money that could go someplace else. If that side has solid numbers to show and RIO and the team cannot produce similar data, its a hard sell to keep the sponsor. FXOboss and the head of Dignitas talked about how hard it is to keep sponsors without good numbers to back up the claims. Nothing speaks for itself in the business world. Sponsors want winners. Why do you think EG keeps buying up players right after they won a big tournament and were in the limelight? Huk, Puma, Thorzain, etc etc. Sponsors want their name attached to a winning team, a winning player. Having your company logo on some guy who just streams a lot is chump change for returns. They want their name spoken every time a team is mentioned, preferably for winning some prestigious international tournament, and they want it to happen all the time. Are you're telling me cultivating better players, making sure your top players stay competitive and in the limelight, is bad for sponsors? No, I am telling you EXACTLY what Alex Garfield said. That it is hard to sell sponsors that being at the finals of a tournament was good for them as a whole and that it is easier to do if you have hard data. Since they don't have the hard data, EG has other routes and shows, such as streaming, to generate proof that the sponsor is getting a return on their ROI. This is not some weird, abstract theory I am talking about here. It is informed provided by Alex Garfield saying that right now winning is important, but they also need to focus on having the hard data to provide to sponsors to keep them. All this things you said may be good for sponsors, but without proof in the form of hard data, they will not assume it is good for them.
There are very few players that can stay relevant in the community if they are not winning or placing well at tournaments.
What is not concrete about the spike in viewership on your stream after winning a major tournament? You have Stardust, Snute, Thorzain, Naniwa, etc., who were all relative unknowns until their big runs. I can't imagine it being hard to get their stream numbers before their big runs and compare it to their stream numbers after their big runs. You think Flash's stream won't pull huge numbers when he finally does stream? He didn't get to that level of popularity by doing nothing. He got there by winning. Nothing is anecdotal about that. If he was some Kespa B-teamer that never won anything, he would not have the popularity he currently enjoys.
After you have already won a lot and after you are already a top player, I don't think winning matters as much -- so long as you are still somewhat relevant. Even in the cases of Idra and Incontrol, winning was that foot in the door that let them squeeze into different roles. I guess if you are EG and prefer to just buy players after they've already reached that level it doesn't matter. But, to ignore winning's impact on "other routes and shows, such as streaming" because its impact is not "concrete" when it is very much tangible is stupid.
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Le sad face. 
Despite what the message says, this is pretty much death for EG-TL continuiing in proleague, and even if they do, it means they will suck HARD again. :'(
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I hope EG-TL will stay in Pro-league, but probably not if they will not be competitive.
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Proleague is just too hard for foreigners team to compete, especially with all the WCS in different regions. It's more beneficial to focus on that instead.
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So is Coach Cho retiring from Entus?
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On July 23 2013 13:40 iamho wrote:
So is Coach Cho retiring from Entus?
he has quit since like 2010 iirc
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Hope they can find another coach who can bring the same improvement. If they decide to continue to compete in spl. CJ already was my favorite kespa team now with coach park I will be cheering for them even more.
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very sad for EG-TL fans, but hopefully they can find another great coach to keep them on their current trajectory.
All the best coach park!
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just wait and see who will take over the bad performance of EG-TL..
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On July 22 2013 21:39 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 21:01 esdf wrote:On July 22 2013 19:41 Plansix wrote:On July 22 2013 18:17 Ammanas wrote:
I would like to know, why they think Proleague is too expensive:
-they said they will keep their Korean house anyway (so paying for the house is not the problem)
-they said they also want to keep Jaedong anyway (so players are not a problem - although maybe they have too big of a roster to pay it all now?)
-the 100k deposit is returnable afaik, so they will get those money back and can use them to participate in next season
So that basically leaves us with coach salary. They even said, that coach Park was more expensive then any of the players in their lineup, including JD and Stephano. So, imo, whether they stay in SPL or leave will depend on if they can find a good coach (not coach-Park good, but good), who speaks at least a little english and is more affordable. Incontrol says it costs a lot of keep enough players in Korea to compete(and coach park is likely part of that cost) and focus on proleague, while the amount of exposure for EG and TL is not amazing. Since EG and TL have western sponsors, that isn't shocking. imo, the reason being that eg-tl can't get a decent/amazing amount if exposure is most likely due to the fact that they suck (quite hard, whole season), not their western sponsors. CJ Entus wasn't really better this season. 17-25 vs 16-26. At least EG-TL was more capable of upsetting WJS 
On July 22 2013 22:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 21:39 nimdil wrote:On July 22 2013 21:01 esdf wrote:On July 22 2013 19:41 Plansix wrote:On July 22 2013 18:17 Ammanas wrote:
I would like to know, why they think Proleague is too expensive:
-they said they will keep their Korean house anyway (so paying for the house is not the problem)
-they said they also want to keep Jaedong anyway (so players are not a problem - although maybe they have too big of a roster to pay it all now?)
-the 100k deposit is returnable afaik, so they will get those money back and can use them to participate in next season
So that basically leaves us with coach salary. They even said, that coach Park was more expensive then any of the players in their lineup, including JD and Stephano. So, imo, whether they stay in SPL or leave will depend on if they can find a good coach (not coach-Park good, but good), who speaks at least a little english and is more affordable. Incontrol says it costs a lot of keep enough players in Korea to compete(and coach park is likely part of that cost) and focus on proleague, while the amount of exposure for EG and TL is not amazing. Since EG and TL have western sponsors, that isn't shocking. imo, the reason being that eg-tl can't get a decent/amazing amount if exposure is most likely due to the fact that they suck (quite hard, whole season), not their western sponsors. CJ Entus wasn't really better this season. 17-25 vs 16-26. At least EG-TL was more capable of upsetting WJS Yeah, but it's way easier to call EGTL bad and leave it at that. Researching their standings takes way to much effort.
thing is, cj is a team with a rich history and a team that was a home to many osl & msl champions, including a former bonjwa. eg-tl is a new team that happened to perform quite bad. how can anyone that sees them for the first time identify with that?
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I guess he just took his leave, in case EG-TL won´t be in next PL. And since WCS/OSL/GSL and ESF-Teams are not quite stable at the moment. NSH to disband, others leaning to LoL....
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I think EG-TL need to remember this:
What makes a team popular is not entirely them winning, it is about player personalities as a band of brothers. We admire them for not only what they do, but who they are individually and how they interact collectively.
Sponsors of old used to be interested in the winner champion only, and switching their loyalty accordingly. But browse the signatures of posters here and you find many affirmations of loyalty to many a team dear to them, and a team not likely to have ever switched.
I have never followed EG-TL as closely as I have during the recent run of Proleague, and I have enjoyed every painful second and celebrated every joyous victory. And it was fantastic. And I love what coach Park did. And I am going to miss him. And I think EG-TL can do this.
And please stay in Proleague!
Spinoza
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Kespa, do what you gotta do. I don't care if that means making sure that EG-TL stays in Proleague, or just that JD goes back (to Green Wings?), but it needs to happen. JD needs to stay in Proleague. Period.
EG having JD leave WCS KR for US was already a big enough transgression. The line must be drawn here.
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That really sucks... well good luck coach Park.
And please EG-TL stay in Proleague
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I think it might be worth considering for EGTL the massive improvement that most of their players have seen during the PL season. Does anybody really think they would have gotten 3 of top 4 at IEM Shanghai (for instance) if not for Proleague and Park's training?
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EPT
