SC2 Power Rank - July 2013 - Page 26

On July 19 2013 15:05 painkilla wrote:


So the problem (in addition to the PL bias) is that PR only take 1 month of results into consideration for PR. That makes little sense for a highly volatile game like SC2. Not to mention eSF players never get enough wins in one month to be in top 5 (unless they win WCS ). Results from past 3 months should be considered imo.

On July 19 2013 07:50 Baroninthetree wrote:

I still don't think flash deserve his spots in any mth's power rank. He's been consistently in top 5 While attended 5 osl/gsland never even made to rd 8. Flash is definitely overrated at any time's power rank

On July 19 2013 15:14 TheRabidDeer wrote:

Every RO16 flash has been in a group of death.

Last season: Parting, Life, Innovation, Flash
This season: Innovation, Bomber, Flash, Bbyong (outlier)

He is undefeated in the RO32

On July 19 2013 15:39 shadymmj wrote:
I urge readers to consider overall performance across a flexible time frame before starting to argue.
SC2 is iffy. 1 month ago bomber was "meh...bomber" and now he's arguably #2.
Parting was in contention for best Protoss only just recently but seems to have fallen off. Ditto with Life, sOs. Flash did poorer than expected, but across the board it wasn't a terrible showing.

What can we learn from this? If you look solely at the most recent starleague performances you will find that the rankings become incredibly contentious, with seemingly no pattern other than bogus #1 and soulkey #2.

On July 19 2013 15:39 shadymmj wrote:
I urge readers to consider overall performance across a flexible time frame before starting to argue.
SC2 is iffy. 1 month ago bomber was "meh...bomber" and now he's arguably #2.
Parting was in contention for best Protoss only just recently but seems to have fallen off. Ditto with Life, sOs. Flash did poorer than expected, but across the board it wasn't a terrible showing.

What can we learn from this? If you look solely at the most recent starleague performances you will find that the rankings become incredibly contentious, with seemingly no pattern other than bogus #1 and soulkey #2.

On July 19 2013 07:41 Neemi wrote:


It feels like people don't realize that it's not a ranking which has predictive validity, but that the goal of a power rank seems to be to sum up the last few months of Starcraft to show who is doing well and who isn't. It's always possible for high-ranking players to start playing worse the next month (Flash/Fantasy) or to have people suddenly start playing a lot better (Bomber/First). They will be placed accordingly when the next power rank shows up. Flash will probably drop down to the lower end of the list, unless he completely fails at PL too and Fantasy probably drops out of the list entirely. In return, Bomber/First have a good chance to be included next time around, depending on how they fare in the Ro8.

Also, please don't make separate power ranks, because that would inevitably lead to arguments to which players would belong where on the other power rank and even more fragmentation.

On July 19 2013 15:34 mjxn wrote:


He may be undefeated RO32 in two seasons but Symbol made it to RO4 and now RO8 yet doesn't even crack the top 10 so that would suggest there is more emphasis on Flash winning in PL rather then his WCS results.

I believe both should had been in the top 10.

On July 19 2013 18:04 PerSe wrote:
Flash is just a better player than Symbol. Getting a high win-ratio and the most wins in SPL is more impressive than Ro8 finishes given the amount of games you have to play in SPL and the consistency you have to show. People say Hero/Taeja are EG-TL's aces, yet they can barely get over a 50% win ratio.

Fact of the matter is, Bo3s in tournaments like the GSL have high variance due to the low number of games (especially when you happen to be in the Group of Death), whereas in an entire season of SPL, the amount of games reduce the variance to the extent that you can really tell who the best players are accurately (in SPL).

Innovation, Flash, Rain, Soulkey, sOs


Granted WCS KR has better players, but weighting WCS KR significantly over say, an entire season of SPL, doesn't make sense with regards to statistics, only with regards to hype ('cause it's an individual tournament and the GSL).

On July 19 2013 18:49 HolyArrow wrote:


Lmao this is exactly why I dislike weighing PL so heavily for Power Rank. You make that sample size argument and suddenly you can justify having a bunch of PR slots filled by players who are doing well in Proleague no matter what the results are outside of Proleague. Basically you're advocating for a Power Rank where a bunch of players get spots for doing well in their isolated little arena while disregarding any outside results because there just aren't enough games.

What you're suggesting means that Kespa players will always be hugely favored to take a bunch of spots on the Power Rank solely due to the fact that they get to play in Proleague which has so many games in the course of its season.

On July 19 2013 19:45 PerSe wrote:


The sample size 'argument' is legit. if you want to know who the best players are, you have to look at statistics. Considering how volatile a game like SC2 is, where even the best players can't get above 70% win ratio, you need a larger sample of games to get an accurate picture. WCS KR has the highest calibre of play, but the low sample size is really volatile. It took DRG some time to get into Code S, even when he was clearly world class from his GSTL performances. At the same time, you get guys like Sniper or Seed, who have a good run and win Code S and then fall out very quickly.

people moaned about OSL's bo1 format in R32. 'cause it's volatile, 'cause the better player might lose 1 game but could've won in a bo3. The same principle applies here and quite frankly in a game like SC2, even bo3s and bo5s are very volatile.

If a good player goes on a good-run of say twelve games, he'll get into the ro8, yet over a larger sample of games, that result may simply be due to variance and his avg win rate may be much lower. Conversely, a very good player (i.e Life) may go on a slump for a bit, yet over a large sample, he's still world-class.

The top players in SPL do tend also to be the top players in WCS KR. People have been predicting sOs to break through in WCS KR after his win ratio in SPL. Could've predicted the same with SK and Innovation as well. Rain and Flash, they haven't done as well, yet I'd expect them to eventually break through in individual-leagues in the long-run.

The problem is when guys like Fantasy and maybe Jangbi, who go on a good run in the SPL and are put on the power-rank. I think that's got to do with the fact that the Power-rank weights recent games far more heavily. If one looks at their long-run win ratios, there's definitely a distinction between the cream of the crop guys: Inno, SK, sOs, Flash, Rain and the good players who can go on streaks: Jangbi, Fantasy, Jaehoon/Argo, Baby.


Also eSF players need to get a team league where they actually regularly play games.

On July 19 2013 20:18 Big J wrote:


sorry but that's nothing SC2 specific. German football Bundesliga last season:
Even the very best teams in other sports like football will only sometimes reach like 80% winrate.
E.g. german Bundesliga champion Bayern Munich had 82% winrate last season.
the runner up Borrusia Dormund had already only 55% winrate.

On July 19 2013 19:26 Emzeeshady wrote:

I wouldn't be against a separate rank for PL players as the creators of these rankings lean so heavily towards proleague results that it makes having the rest of the players pointless.

Next month Fantasy will just be replaced by whatever player does well in proleague...

On July 19 2013 20:35 PerSe wrote:



No it's not SC2 specific and football is another example of a 'volatile' game. Except bear in mind that in SC2 there's generally only two possible results: win or loss. In football, draws erode the win rate significantly.

Glad you brought up the football example though. Again, you determine the best team over the course of a season, not over 1 game.


Let us suppose BM = Innovation, in other words, performs very well in the national league (SPL) AND in the Champions League (GSL) and contrast to a team that performed very well in the national league but not well at all in the champions league: Manchester City (I dunno, Flash?). Actually good example because they were in the Group of Death with Borussia Dortmund and Real Madrid.

I think most people would still regard Manchester City as one of the top 10 teams in the world. On the other hand you have a team like Chelsea which WON the Champions League but did poorly in their national league and in that year, not many would have considered them a top 10 team.

On July 19 2013 20:35 opterown wrote:
even in BW not many people reached 70% right? how many people would be able to do so consistently?