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SC2 Power Rank - July 2013 - Page 25

Forum Index > SC2 General
608 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 31 Next All
GnoM
Profile Joined September 2011
Norway145 Posts
July 17 2013 07:32 GMT
#481
I can agree on this!
Ammanas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Slovakia2166 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-17 07:54:36
July 17 2013 07:51 GMT
#482
On July 15 2013 03:23 Assirra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2013 03:08 TheBamf wrote:
3 non kespa players. G fuckin' G. The prophecy came true

When 80% of the stats this is based of is Proleague its kinda hard not to.


Try to guess why it is based on Proleague though. Besides it having the most matches in July, it is also the most premier and the 'hardest to do well in' league in the world. Now, you can argue about WCS KR which has not enough matches (and besides Innovation and Soulkey, there are like no really consistent players throughout the two seasons, Bomber maybe with his second Ro8 in a row and Symbol with a possibility of Ro8) and WCS Global, which is only one frickin' weekend tournament that doesn't mean anything. WCS EU and AM are laughable as opposed to KR.

All in all, consistently winning should be more indicative of player's skill, then winning 1 or 2 Bo3s.

EDIT: Hardest to do well in, I mean consistently. Like over teh span of several months. Of course you can do well in 1 match for example.
JangBi forever <3 || Classic! herO! Rain! Zest! | Rogue! Hydra! Solar! | Fantasy! Cure! Reality! Sorry! Journey!
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-17 08:27:50
July 17 2013 08:17 GMT
#483
On July 17 2013 16:51 Ammanas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2013 03:23 Assirra wrote:
On July 15 2013 03:08 TheBamf wrote:
3 non kespa players. G fuckin' G. The prophecy came true

When 80% of the stats this is based of is Proleague its kinda hard not to.


Try to guess why it is based on Proleague though. Besides it having the most matches in July, it is also the most premier and the 'hardest to do well in' league in the world. Now, you can argue about WCS KR which has not enough matches (and besides Innovation and Soulkey, there are like no really consistent players throughout the two seasons, Bomber maybe with his second Ro8 in a row and Symbol with a possibility of Ro8) and WCS Global, which is only one frickin' weekend tournament that doesn't mean anything. WCS EU and AM are laughable as opposed to KR.

All in all, consistently winning should be more indicative of player's skill, then winning 1 or 2 Bo3s.

EDIT: Hardest to do well in, I mean consistently. Like over teh span of several months. Of course you can do well in 1 match for example.


The problem is that some people are using it as evidence that somehow the Elephant article had legitimacy and that Kespa is dominating everyone else, when half of the Kespa players are on the power rank not because they're dominating non-Kespa players, but rather, fellow Kespa players in Proleague.

I really feel like Proleague should just have its own power rank because I can see the whole sample size thing being a problem for every power rank. Basically, no matter what anyone's performance is outside of Proleague, it'll be overshadowed by Proleague results due to the sheer amount of Proleague games thanks to its format. And unlike WCS, Proleague is a lot more closed off in the sense that there isn't an Up-Downs/Challenger portion of Proleague, so even if there were possibly deserving teams who wanted to compete in it, they wouldn't have the opportunity to challenge the lower-ranked PL teams for a spot.
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
July 17 2013 08:30 GMT
#484
On July 17 2013 16:51 Ammanas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2013 03:23 Assirra wrote:
On July 15 2013 03:08 TheBamf wrote:
3 non kespa players. G fuckin' G. The prophecy came true

When 80% of the stats this is based of is Proleague its kinda hard not to.


Try to guess why it is based on Proleague though. Besides it having the most matches in July, it is also the most premier and the 'hardest to do well in' league in the world. Now, you can argue about WCS KR which has not enough matches (and besides Innovation and Soulkey, there are like no really consistent players throughout the two seasons, Bomber maybe with his second Ro8 in a row and Symbol with a possibility of Ro8) and WCS Global, which is only one frickin' weekend tournament that doesn't mean anything. WCS EU and AM are laughable as opposed to KR.

All in all, consistently winning should be more indicative of player's skill, then winning 1 or 2 Bo3s.

EDIT: Hardest to do well in, I mean consistently. Like over teh span of several months. Of course you can do well in 1 match for example.

It has nothing to do with what is harder to do consistently and what is not. It's simply about the most matches played.
Proleague has the most matches, we all know that so ofc they will count for more. However, it's when people are starting to make silly conclusions about why the KeSPA players are so high it gets annoying. It has nothing to do with the elephant or al that other nosense, its simply more matches going on in progleague so more stats are based on proleague which results in more KeSPA players in these rankings.
painkilla
Profile Joined June 2013
United States695 Posts
July 18 2013 18:16 GMT
#485
On July 17 2013 17:17 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2013 16:51 Ammanas wrote:
On July 15 2013 03:23 Assirra wrote:
On July 15 2013 03:08 TheBamf wrote:
3 non kespa players. G fuckin' G. The prophecy came true

When 80% of the stats this is based of is Proleague its kinda hard not to.


Try to guess why it is based on Proleague though. Besides it having the most matches in July, it is also the most premier and the 'hardest to do well in' league in the world. Now, you can argue about WCS KR which has not enough matches (and besides Innovation and Soulkey, there are like no really consistent players throughout the two seasons, Bomber maybe with his second Ro8 in a row and Symbol with a possibility of Ro8) and WCS Global, which is only one frickin' weekend tournament that doesn't mean anything. WCS EU and AM are laughable as opposed to KR.

All in all, consistently winning should be more indicative of player's skill, then winning 1 or 2 Bo3s.

EDIT: Hardest to do well in, I mean consistently. Like over teh span of several months. Of course you can do well in 1 match for example.


The problem is that some people are using it as evidence that somehow the Elephant article had legitimacy and that Kespa is dominating everyone else, when half of the Kespa players are on the power rank not because they're dominating non-Kespa players, but rather, fellow Kespa players in Proleague.

I really feel like Proleague should just have its own power rank because I can see the whole sample size thing being a problem for every power rank. Basically, no matter what anyone's performance is outside of Proleague, it'll be overshadowed by Proleague results due to the sheer amount of Proleague games thanks to its format. And unlike WCS, Proleague is a lot more closed off in the sense that there isn't an Up-Downs/Challenger portion of Proleague, so even if there were possibly deserving teams who wanted to compete in it, they wouldn't have the opportunity to challenge the lower-ranked PL teams for a spot.


And OSL Ro16 shows how legitimate this ranking system is.
Supernova | TY | Polt | Innovation | forGG | Lucifron | Happy
MatiaasS !
Profile Joined October 2011
Chile167 Posts
July 18 2013 20:41 GMT
#486
There are a a lot of really good Terrans right now...
Team EG, TL and IM ! || Tennis For Life ♥ RF ♥
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
July 18 2013 21:17 GMT
#487
I hope we get a First vs Rain OSL matchup. IMO they're the two best Toss in the world, the 1 game they played already was terrific, and it'd be really fun to see them play a Bo7. PvP's a fun matchup these days, and I'd like to settle who the top Protoss is at the moment. Rain is outstanding, but tbh First's play has impressed me more lately.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
painkilla
Profile Joined June 2013
United States695 Posts
July 18 2013 21:58 GMT
#488
On July 19 2013 06:17 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I hope we get a First vs Rain OSL matchup. IMO they're the two best Toss in the world, the 1 game they played already was terrific, and it'd be really fun to see them play a Bo7. PvP's a fun matchup these days, and I'd like to settle who the top Protoss is at the moment. Rain is outstanding, but tbh First's play has impressed me more lately.


First has better multitasking and engagement but is not very experienced with funky situations. However the tie-breakers series showed First is good mentally, can play well in high stake games.
Supernova | TY | Polt | Innovation | forGG | Lucifron | Happy
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
July 18 2013 22:08 GMT
#489
--- Nuked ---
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17733 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-18 22:37:35
July 18 2013 22:33 GMT
#490
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol

Flash was definitely #3. In his OSL Ro16 group, lol
(just poking fun obviously, he lost to Innovation, and the new best terran in the world Bomber)
"Expert" mods4ever.com
Neemi
Profile Joined August 2012
Netherlands656 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-18 22:41:36
July 18 2013 22:41 GMT
#491
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol


It feels like people don't realize that it's not a ranking which has predictive validity, but that the goal of a power rank seems to be to sum up the last few months of Starcraft to show who is doing well and who isn't. It's always possible for high-ranking players to start playing worse the next month (Flash/Fantasy) or to have people suddenly start playing a lot better (Bomber/First). They will be placed accordingly when the next power rank shows up. Flash will probably drop down to the lower end of the list, unless he completely fails at PL too and Fantasy probably drops out of the list entirely. In return, Bomber/First have a good chance to be included next time around, depending on how they fare in the Ro8.

Also, please don't make separate power ranks, because that would inevitably lead to arguments to which players would belong where on the other power rank and even more fragmentation.
Cute
Baroninthetree
Profile Joined August 2012
United States473 Posts
July 18 2013 22:50 GMT
#492
On July 19 2013 07:41 Neemi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol


It feels like people don't realize that it's not a ranking which has predictive validity, but that the goal of a power rank seems to be to sum up the last few months of Starcraft to show who is doing well and who isn't. It's always possible for high-ranking players to start playing worse the next month (Flash/Fantasy) or to have people suddenly start playing a lot better (Bomber/First). They will be placed accordingly when the next power rank shows up. Flash will probably drop down to the lower end of the list, unless he completely fails at PL too and Fantasy probably drops out of the list entirely. In return, Bomber/First have a good chance to be included next time around, depending on how they fare in the Ro8.

Also, please don't make separate power ranks, because that would inevitably lead to arguments to which players would belong where on the other power rank and even more fragmentation.

I still don't think flash deserve his spots in any mth's power rank. He's been consistently in top 5 While attended 5 osl/gsland never even made to rd 8. Flash is definitely overrated at any time's power rank
sibs
Profile Joined July 2012
635 Posts
July 18 2013 23:50 GMT
#493
On July 19 2013 07:50 Baroninthetree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 07:41 Neemi wrote:
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol


It feels like people don't realize that it's not a ranking which has predictive validity, but that the goal of a power rank seems to be to sum up the last few months of Starcraft to show who is doing well and who isn't. It's always possible for high-ranking players to start playing worse the next month (Flash/Fantasy) or to have people suddenly start playing a lot better (Bomber/First). They will be placed accordingly when the next power rank shows up. Flash will probably drop down to the lower end of the list, unless he completely fails at PL too and Fantasy probably drops out of the list entirely. In return, Bomber/First have a good chance to be included next time around, depending on how they fare in the Ro8.

Also, please don't make separate power ranks, because that would inevitably lead to arguments to which players would belong where on the other power rank and even more fragmentation.

I still don't think flash deserve his spots in any mth's power rank. He's been consistently in top 5 While attended 5 osl/gsland never even made to rd 8. Flash is definitely overrated at any time's power rank


2nd place MLG, stellar performance in proleague, decent at WCS KR.
Flash deserved to be in the ranking.

Fantasy and jangbi now......
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
July 19 2013 00:29 GMT
#494
On July 19 2013 07:33 Die4Ever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol

Flash was definitely #3. In his OSL Ro16 group, lol
(just poking fun obviously, he lost to Innovation, and the new best terran in the world Bomber)

THAT BURN, lol. But yeah, I agree with that other guy. The PR is a review of players' skills, not a preview.
jjakji fan
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 19 2013 01:33 GMT
#495
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol


Flash lost to the best player in the world and possibly the best TvT player in the world. If Bomber had been in a different group with no terrans, then he could quite easily have been knocked out and Flash would make it through instead. Taking 4 games (one of which was just a pure build order loss) and saying "lol guess you were wrong" is just stupid.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-19 02:25:01
July 19 2013 02:23 GMT
#496
--- Nuked ---
Baroninthetree
Profile Joined August 2012
United States473 Posts
July 19 2013 02:26 GMT
#497
On July 19 2013 08:50 sibs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 07:50 Baroninthetree wrote:
On July 19 2013 07:41 Neemi wrote:
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol


It feels like people don't realize that it's not a ranking which has predictive validity, but that the goal of a power rank seems to be to sum up the last few months of Starcraft to show who is doing well and who isn't. It's always possible for high-ranking players to start playing worse the next month (Flash/Fantasy) or to have people suddenly start playing a lot better (Bomber/First). They will be placed accordingly when the next power rank shows up. Flash will probably drop down to the lower end of the list, unless he completely fails at PL too and Fantasy probably drops out of the list entirely. In return, Bomber/First have a good chance to be included next time around, depending on how they fare in the Ro8.

Also, please don't make separate power ranks, because that would inevitably lead to arguments to which players would belong where on the other power rank and even more fragmentation.

I still don't think flash deserve his spots in any mth's power rank. He's been consistently in top 5 While attended 5 osl/gsland never even made to rd 8. Flash is definitely overrated at any time's power rank


2nd place MLG, stellar performance in proleague, decent at WCS KR.
Flash deserved to be in the ranking.

Fantasy and jangbi now......

Well i agree Flash definitely deserve in the Top 10. Just top 3 is slightly too high.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 19 2013 05:15 GMT
#498
On July 19 2013 11:23 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 10:33 GolemMadness wrote:
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol


Flash lost to the best player in the world and possibly the best TvT player in the world. If Bomber had been in a different group with no terrans, then he could quite easily have been knocked out and Flash would make it through instead. Taking 4 games (one of which was just a pure build order loss) and saying "lol guess you were wrong" is just stupid.

I am not saying they were wrong because he got creamed by Innovation and Bomber. I am saying they were wrong to put him in 3rd in the first place and him getting crushed just proved that he wasn't quite there yet.

Also it wasn't just the fact that he lost. He lost without even really putting up a fight. Light, one of the biggest Flash fanboys on this site even admitted Flash played terrible. Playing like that he would have been eliminated in almost any group and I doubt Bomber would be eliminated.

I understand it is hard to rank the players when there are way more games to judge one group by then another but putting more weight on team league matches seems wrong to me.

Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 07:33 Die4Ever wrote:
Flash was definitely #3. In his OSL Ro16 group, lol

haha, ouch!


I wouldn't say that he played terribly. Really, his second game against Innovation came down to one bad miscalculation, and his losses to Bomber were against unorthodox timing attacks. He's shown in the past that he's capable of beating Innovation (even now, they're 5-5 in HotS) and has an 80% win rate in Proleague since May (20-5). Prior to this power rank, he was still 78% in Proleague since May, and easily won his OSL group 2-0.

So really, who deserved to be higher? Bomber wasn't exactly looking great prior to this group; sOs got knocked out in the Ro32; Rain was looking shaky in June; so who else really is there?
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Ammanas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Slovakia2166 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-19 06:02:20
July 19 2013 06:00 GMT
#499
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol


OSL didn't prove anything. Bomber didn't have any results whatsoever in June (besides losing streak in GSTL), Symbol was mentioned as a 11th guy and even though I would agree he should have been there instead of Taeja, he will for sure break into the next issue. Fantasy does not belong there as of RIGHT NOW, but he surely deserved his spot for June. Maybe not the 7th, but he was supposed to be in Top10... As far as Flash is concerned, he has more wins in SPL then anyone. In fact, the most wins in SPL. More then Innovation, more then Soulkey, more then Rain, more then sOs, again - more then ANYONE... He deserved that spot for such consistency, imo! If he fails in playoffs, he will probably drop to bottom 5. But if he leads KT to victory in semifinals and (please no) even finals, he should and will be in top5 even next month.

On July 19 2013 08:50 sibs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 07:50 Baroninthetree wrote:
On July 19 2013 07:41 Neemi wrote:
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol


It feels like people don't realize that it's not a ranking which has predictive validity, but that the goal of a power rank seems to be to sum up the last few months of Starcraft to show who is doing well and who isn't. It's always possible for high-ranking players to start playing worse the next month (Flash/Fantasy) or to have people suddenly start playing a lot better (Bomber/First). They will be placed accordingly when the next power rank shows up. Flash will probably drop down to the lower end of the list, unless he completely fails at PL too and Fantasy probably drops out of the list entirely. In return, Bomber/First have a good chance to be included next time around, depending on how they fare in the Ro8.

Also, please don't make separate power ranks, because that would inevitably lead to arguments to which players would belong where on the other power rank and even more fragmentation.

I still don't think flash deserve his spots in any mth's power rank. He's been consistently in top 5 While attended 5 osl/gsland never even made to rd 8. Flash is definitely overrated at any time's power rank


2nd place MLG, stellar performance in proleague, decent at WCS KR.
Flash deserved to be in the ranking.

Fantasy and jangbi now......


JangBi had the most amazing month of June of any protoss players. He was 8-3 in SPL, with 3-1 in ace matches (over Rain, for example) and singlehandedly carried Samsung KHAN into playoff contention upto very last week. For June, and June only, he should have been rated higher then players like Rain or sOs. Yes, he lost 2 Bo1s in OSL, but so did sOs and nobody is arguing about him. Lack of past results have relegated him to only 6th position, which is obviously fine, but he belonged there. Obviously, he won't be in the next month, since he is not playing in anything in July, which is fine.
JangBi forever <3 || Classic! herO! Rain! Zest! | Rogue! Hydra! Solar! | Fantasy! Cure! Reality! Sorry! Journey!
painkilla
Profile Joined June 2013
United States695 Posts
July 19 2013 06:05 GMT
#500
On July 19 2013 15:00 Ammanas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol


OSL didn't prove anything. Bomber didn't have any results whatsoever in June (besides losing streak in GSTL), Symbol was mentioned as a 11th guy and even though I would agree he should have been there instead of Taeja, he will for sure break into the next issue. Fantasy does not belong there as of RIGHT NOW, but he surely deserved his spot for June. Maybe not the 7th, but he was supposed to be in Top10... As far as Flash is concerned, he has more wins in SPL then anyone. In fact, the most wins in SPL. More then Innovation, more then Soulkey, more then Rain, more then sOs, again - more then ANYONE... He deserved that spot for such consistency, imo! If he fails in playoffs, he will probably drop to bottom 5. But if he leads KT to victory in semifinals and (please no) even finals, he should and will be in top5 even next month.

Show nested quote +
On July 19 2013 08:50 sibs wrote:
On July 19 2013 07:50 Baroninthetree wrote:
On July 19 2013 07:41 Neemi wrote:
On July 19 2013 07:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Thank you OSL for proving that these ranking were way off.

Flash at 3?
Fantasy at 7?
No Smybol?

lol


It feels like people don't realize that it's not a ranking which has predictive validity, but that the goal of a power rank seems to be to sum up the last few months of Starcraft to show who is doing well and who isn't. It's always possible for high-ranking players to start playing worse the next month (Flash/Fantasy) or to have people suddenly start playing a lot better (Bomber/First). They will be placed accordingly when the next power rank shows up. Flash will probably drop down to the lower end of the list, unless he completely fails at PL too and Fantasy probably drops out of the list entirely. In return, Bomber/First have a good chance to be included next time around, depending on how they fare in the Ro8.

Also, please don't make separate power ranks, because that would inevitably lead to arguments to which players would belong where on the other power rank and even more fragmentation.

I still don't think flash deserve his spots in any mth's power rank. He's been consistently in top 5 While attended 5 osl/gsland never even made to rd 8. Flash is definitely overrated at any time's power rank


2nd place MLG, stellar performance in proleague, decent at WCS KR.
Flash deserved to be in the ranking.

Fantasy and jangbi now......


JangBi had the most amazing month of June of any protoss players. He was 8-3 in SPL, with 3-1 in ace matches (over Rain, for example) and singlehandedly carried Samsung KHAN into playoff contention upto very last week. For June, and June only, he should have been rated higher then players like Rain or sOs. Yes, he lost 2 Bo1s in OSL, but so did sOs and nobody is arguing about him. Lack of past results have relegated him to only 7th position, which is obviously fine, but he belonged there. Obviously, he won't be in the next month, since he is not playing in anything in July, which is fine.


So the problem (in addition to the PL bias) is that PR only take 1 month of results into consideration for PR. That makes little sense for a highly volatile game like SC2. Not to mention eSF players never get enough wins in one month to be in top 5 (unless they win WCS ). Results from past 3 months should be considered imo.
Supernova | TY | Polt | Innovation | forGG | Lucifron | Happy
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