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On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. Low lvl biased yada yada. As seen here--> The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place. Terran has to do damage in the midgame and this buff makes that window smalller giving toss a stronger lategame. As we all know lategame pvt
requires inferior battle management than the opponent. Casting some storms isn't intense micro at all.
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On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. Shuttles are still faster than Prisms, Arbiters are more powerful than prisms. You needed more than 20 turrets to stop an Arbiter recall (not kidding). In late game TvP it was not rare to see Flash make more than 50 turrets on Fighting Spirit, with far less bases than Toss and just have to deal with it. On top of this you always played pure-mech which was extremely immobile compared to stimmed marines who can also shoot air, 1 recall often changed an almost won game into an instant loss. When Protoss went fast robotics, you had to surround your base with turrets or lose all your scvs and tanks to one reaver shot, Protoss can actually choose to just expand afterwards thus making you waste all your money. This actually happened in a semi-final and Flash ultimately (pun intended) was eliminated from the tournament. You only need 1 turret in SC2 to stop anything and you have Mules. Terran needs to stop whining, its not at all powerful in the slightest. The only difference is Protoss is a lot more flexible than 3base 1a deathballs, which is something we should really be promoting. The difference is Terran needs to just make a fucking turret or two instead of only having to have 1 viking to prevent all drop play which is just retarded game design. This is not hard people, its not 50 turrets like in the previous game, Terrans will definitely be able to cope with no problems. The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place.
As someone that played both sides of that mu in BW, it truly boggles my mind to see how much balance talk/whining there is in SC 2, when there seemed to be almost none in BW. I mean, I'd see people say z > p. But, even when you would see people say one race was favored over another, it always seemed to be in a rather matter of fact manner, and as if it was no big deal. Since people viewed it as the most balanced RTS game, there was a feeling of "since no one can be perfect, it's hard to hate too much on the person viewed as being closest to perfect."
Yet, in SC 2, every race thinks they're the underdog, or at least Terrans think playing their race is like mission impossible: if their APM slips below 200, the loss screen automatically appears and likewise if their minerals go over 500. So, naturally, since they're playing in unfair conditions, they deserve to have the most potential. In BW, I sure as hell wouldn't have made a fuss over how hard it was to micro with Terran. It was a lot harder to micro than Toss in BW than the difference between the two in SC 2, but that's hardly what made it imbalanced.
In BW, not only did you need to make a ton of turrets at each base to deter it from entering your base (the least cost efficient thing ever), but vessels had the smallest emp radius ever. It was near impossible to emp them. Even if it was apparent they couldn't recall due to 100 turrets or w/e, you still had to overcome the equivalent of having half of your army always be force fielded out. I remember seeing some insane tidbit, that in a pro league season no toss players lost when making at least 1 arbiter... they were that good... And with so much fuss about broodlords + infestors in WoL, it was still soo, soo much easier to face than carriers in BW.
I think blizzard actively trying to balance the game has really made everyone vocal and quite biased. As for Avilo, you could beat him 50 games in a row and he could be 5 ranks lower than you, and he would still lecture you after every game about how you played bad and tell you how you should have played it. With that kinda of personality/delusional type, you'd prob have to win GSL to gain credibility, or at least take everything with a grain of salt.
In BW, if you openly thought your race was better than another, it just didn't matter because the game was final. If you felt you got the short end of the stick, you just had to deal with it.
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On June 22 2013 19:16 SolidZeal wrote:
Well, the meching player is more likely to have well placed widow mines that will stop the WP in it's tracks and give Terran an edge because of the wasted sentries, but I agree that this change will only promote WM usage, not mech persay.
Widow mines don't single shot warp prisms.
On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. You only need 1 turret in SC2 to stop anything and you have Mules. Terran needs to stop whining, its not at all powerful in the slightest. The only difference is Protoss is a lot more flexible than 3base 1a deathballs, which is something we should really be promoting.
As said before, while I am afraid for the all-in potential I am not per se against the warp prism change. However the amount of misinformation thrown around here is impressive.
Apparently we now only need 1 turret to stop warp prism play? That is just bullshit. If that was the case I wouldn't be afraid for all-ins, you need fast turrets against toss anyway in HotS against all their other all-ins. But the idea that one turret would do enough dps against a warp prism to take it out before it left its range, or that it even has the range to cover your base is just weird.
The difference is Terran needs to just make a fucking turret or two instead of only having to have 1 viking to prevent all drop play which is just retarded game design. This is not hard people, its not 50 turrets like in the previous game, Terrans will definitely be able to cope with no problems. The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place.
Wow someone is mad? Luckily then all those terrans will drop to their rightful place, right? It isn't like except in bronze there are more toss players in every league than terran players, oh wait, it is exactly like that.
One turret really won't do anything to stop warp prism play. Sure a turret ring does, but by the time a turret ring becomes realistic this change is irrelevant, since then the toss should have warp prism speed anyway. Anyway does that also mean toss won't complain about hellbats anymore? Since you can just make a cannon ring around your base?
@SsDrKosS, so that is also for you, static defenses are fairly irrelevant against most types of warp prism play until you can completely ring your base with them. Also such comparisons are always doubtful. Sure turrets have good dps, but they can't shoot ground units, and we don't have planetary nexus. (Please don't say that we should make our main CC into a PF).
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4713 Posts
Ok I can understand some of the terran qq related too WP all-ins and WP based pressures in the early and mid game, but someone will have too enlighten me how the hell is late game TvP impossible to win. Very little has actually changed, protoss have gotten Tempest, but I've yet too see enough games that I'd consider it a problem, and of the few games I have seen they don't seem that bad, this all coming from a terran perspective.
The real issue with this change is that I fell it misses the mark on how too reach their goal, I'm not sure this will make games more dynamic as they want too. I believe the main problem still lies in the overall design of the Protoss race, and no amount of stupid, superficial buffs/units is ever going too change that. But that's a discussion for another topic.
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Im curious about people when they say "Able to warp 30 zealots in". That damn circle is so small, you get stuck doing it in waves of 10-12 or so depending on the positioning.
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On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. The difference is Terran needs to just make a fucking turret or two instead of only having to have 1 viking to prevent all drop play which is just retarded game design. This is not hard people, its not 50 turrets like in the previous game, Terrans will definitely be able to cope with no problems. The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place.
Biggest load of bullshit I've ever read.
On June 22 2013 21:45 Destructicon wrote:
Ok I can understand some of the terran qq related too WP all-ins and WP based pressures in the early and mid game, but someone will have too enlighten me how the hell is late game TvP impossible to win. Very little has actually changed, protoss have gotten Tempest, but I've yet too see enough games that I'd consider it a problem, and of the few games I have seen they don't seem that bad, this all coming from a terran perspective.
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In the late game (many) terrans have always had the belief that Protoss has always been far too powerful in the late game, with its storm/collossus deathball and mass warpin reinforcements, yet a number of protoss also believe terran to be the one who is imbalanced late game with its mass ghost/viking combo. I honestly have no idea how Terran could deal with mass tempests, they are just insanely strong, yet I've never seen one protoss be able to get many of them in a late game situation, so I can't exactly complain about them.
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On June 22 2013 20:55 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. Shuttles are still faster than Prisms, Arbiters are more powerful than prisms. You needed more than 20 turrets to stop an Arbiter recall (not kidding). In late game TvP it was not rare to see Flash make more than 50 turrets on Fighting Spirit, with far less bases than Toss and just have to deal with it. On top of this you always played pure-mech which was extremely immobile compared to stimmed marines who can also shoot air, 1 recall often changed an almost won game into an instant loss. When Protoss went fast robotics, you had to surround your base with turrets or lose all your scvs and tanks to one reaver shot, Protoss can actually choose to just expand afterwards thus making you waste all your money. This actually happened in a semi-final and Flash ultimately (pun intended) was eliminated from the tournament. You only need 1 turret in SC2 to stop anything and you have Mules. Terran needs to stop whining, its not at all powerful in the slightest. The only difference is Protoss is a lot more flexible than 3base 1a deathballs, which is something we should really be promoting. The difference is Terran needs to just make a fucking turret or two instead of only having to have 1 viking to prevent all drop play which is just retarded game design. This is not hard people, its not 50 turrets like in the previous game, Terrans will definitely be able to cope with no problems. The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place. As someone that played both sides of that mu in BW, it truly boggles my mind to see how much balance talk/whining there is in SC 2, when there seemed to be almost none in BW. I mean, I'd see people say z > p. But, even when you would see people say one race was favored over another, it always seemed to be in a rather matter of fact manner, and as if it was no big deal. Since people viewed it as the most balanced RTS game, there was a feeling of "since no one can be perfect, it's hard to hate too much on the person viewed as being closest to perfect." Yet, in SC 2, every race thinks they're the underdog, or at least Terrans think playing their race is like mission impossible: if their APM slips below 200, the loss screen automatically appears and likewise if their minerals go over 500. So, naturally, since they're playing in unfair conditions, they deserve to have the most potential. In BW, I sure as hell wouldn't have made a fuss over how hard it was to micro with Terran. It was a lot harder to micro than Toss in BW than the difference between the two in SC 2, but that's hardly what made it imbalanced. In BW, not only did you need to make a ton of turrets at each base to deter it from entering your base (the least cost efficient thing ever), but vessels had the smallest emp radius ever. It was near impossible to emp them. Even if it was apparent they couldn't recall due to 100 turrets or w/e, you still had to overcome the equivalent of having half of your army always be force fielded out. I remember seeing some insane tidbit, that in a pro league season no toss players lost when making at least 1 arbiter... they were that good... And with so much fuss about broodlords + infestors in WoL, it was still soo, soo much easier to face than carriers in BW. I think blizzard actively trying to balance the game has really made everyone vocal and quite biased. As for Avilo, you could beat him 50 games in a row and he could be 5 ranks lower than you, and he would still lecture you after every game about how you played bad and tell you how you should have played it. With that kinda of personality/delusional type, you'd prob have to win GSL to gain credibility, or at least take everything with a grain of salt. In BW, if you openly thought your race was better than another, it just didn't matter because the game was final. If you felt you got the short end of the stick, you just had to deal with it.
It's because the ladder has a forced 50% winrate while people enjoy a 70ish% winrate.
BW was fringe enough that only the people who wanted to be competitive played the iCCup, the rest just played moneymaps and lurker defense.
In SC2, everyone is funneled into the ladder system--including those who would rather be playing 3v5 comp on fastest map ever. Those people who only think they want to compete lash out because less than 70% angers them. These player personalities fill all leagues from bronze to idra.
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On June 22 2013 21:15 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 19:16 SolidZeal wrote:
Well, the meching player is more likely to have well placed widow mines that will stop the WP in it's tracks and give Terran an edge because of the wasted sentries, but I agree that this change will only promote WM usage, not mech persay.
Widow mines don't single shot warp prisms. Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. You only need 1 turret in SC2 to stop anything and you have Mules. Terran needs to stop whining, its not at all powerful in the slightest. The only difference is Protoss is a lot more flexible than 3base 1a deathballs, which is something we should really be promoting. As said before, while I am afraid for the all-in potential I am not per se against the warp prism change. However the amount of misinformation thrown around here is impressive. Apparently we now only need 1 turret to stop warp prism play? That is just bullshit. If that was the case I wouldn't be afraid for all-ins, you need fast turrets against toss anyway in HotS against all their other all-ins. But the idea that one turret would do enough dps against a warp prism to take it out before it left its range, or that it even has the range to cover your base is just weird. Show nested quote +
The difference is Terran needs to just make a fucking turret or two instead of only having to have 1 viking to prevent all drop play which is just retarded game design. This is not hard people, its not 50 turrets like in the previous game, Terrans will definitely be able to cope with no problems. The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place.
Wow someone is mad? Luckily then all those terrans will drop to their rightful place, right? It isn't like except in bronze there are more toss players in every league than terran players, oh wait, it is exactly like that. One turret really won't do anything to stop warp prism play. Sure a turret ring does, but by the time a turret ring becomes realistic this change is irrelevant, since then the toss should have warp prism speed anyway. Anyway does that also mean toss won't complain about hellbats anymore? Since you can just make a cannon ring around your base? @SsDrKosS, so that is also for you, static defenses are fairly irrelevant against most types of warp prism play until you can completely ring your base with them. Also such comparisons are always doubtful. Sure turrets have good dps, but they can't shoot ground units, and we don't have planetary nexus. (Please don't say that we should make our main CC into a PF).
On June 22 2013 21:57 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. The difference is Terran needs to just make a fucking turret or two instead of only having to have 1 viking to prevent all drop play which is just retarded game design. This is not hard people, its not 50 turrets like in the previous game, Terrans will definitely be able to cope with no problems. The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place. Biggest load of bullshit I've ever read. .
Lol, you know what's bullshit? Missile Turrets in SC2.
When I first played Terran in SC2 and watched 1 turret fend off a flock of mutas and practically instagib transport units I nearly spit out my coffee. Missile Turrets in SC2 are actually extremely overpowered (in the true sense of the word), just nobody realises it because it was like that in the game from the beginning.
I remember when you had to build 8 turrets to fend off 6 mutas that could be spawned before you even had 5 marines, and now people complain about having to make something other than 1 viking, its actually hilarious.
Because of the insane DPS of Missile Turrets in SC2, people never realised that turrets actually have utility beyond being a building which kills air units. The thought of "If it doesn't outright kill/stop the prism, it must be useless" just boggles my mind.
If you need more than 2-3 turrets to defend drop play your turret positioning is atrocious, and you need to learn it. Almost no Terrans understand the science of Turret positioning because before now, it just wasn't necessary. Now you have to learn it and maybe your TvZ will also improve as a result instead of blindly building turrets without a second thought.
I can't wait for the massive amounts of balance whine to just suddenly grind to a halt when while everyone is busy complaining about imbalance, Flash actually figures out hex perfect turret positioning for each map and can prevent drops with a single turret.
That statement alone may confuse you, but that's because most players can't figure shit out on their own and think if a pro hasn't done it already it can't exist and therefore won't bother learning it. Much like how I never saw anyone use simcity until pros started doing it a lot.
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On June 22 2013 20:48 PanzerElite wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. Low lvl biased yada yada. As seen here--> The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place. Terran has to do damage in the midgame and this buff makes that window smalller giving toss a stronger lategame. As we all know lategame pvt requires inferior battle management than the opponent. Casting some storms isn't intense micro at all.
"Casting some storms isn't intense micro at all"
"Casting some storms isn't intense micro at all"
"Casting some storms isn't intense micro at all"
"Casting some storms isn't intense micro at all"
"Casting some storms isn't intense micro at all"
well, maybe in diamond it isn,t but you really think that spreanding my High Templars cause they are super vulnerable to emps casted by invisible units isn't micro intensive?
This post is silly, people complaining about everything that their race doesn't have but other races do have.
Your know, races are suposed to be different in Starcraft.
And by the way, about warp prisms, turrets exist, and they are QUITE good.
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On June 22 2013 21:57 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. The difference is Terran needs to just make a fucking turret or two instead of only having to have 1 viking to prevent all drop play which is just retarded game design. This is not hard people, its not 50 turrets like in the previous game, Terrans will definitely be able to cope with no problems. The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place. Biggest load of bullshit I've ever read.
I hope you get banned...you don't quote someone's post and just insult it without giving your reason. We all know what race you play.
On June 22 2013 21:57 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 21:45 Destructicon wrote:
Ok I can understand some of the terran qq related too WP all-ins and WP based pressures in the early and mid game, but someone will have too enlighten me how the hell is late game TvP impossible to win. Very little has actually changed, protoss have gotten Tempest, but I've yet too see enough games that I'd consider it a problem, and of the few games I have seen they don't seem that bad, this all coming from a terran perspective.
. In the late game (many) terrans have always had the belief that Protoss has always been far too powerful in the late game, with its storm/collossus deathball and mass warpin reinforcements, yet a number of protoss also believe terran to be the one who is imbalanced late game with its mass ghost/viking combo. I honestly have no idea how Terran could deal with mass tempests, they are just insanely strong, yet I've never seen one protoss be able to get many of them in a late game situation, so I can't exactly complain about them.
"PROTOSS TOO STRONG, MASS TEMPEST" is the same thing as "TERRAN TOO STRONG, MASS BATTLECRUISERS"
Yeah, if you get a fuckload of battlecruisers, Protoss can't stop you, but no one gets to that point unless you are ahead of the Protoss by like 3 bases (and in that case, you should just steamroll him no matter what u build)
Saying "mass tempest, Protoss late game army unstoppable" is a very bad argument and a unlikely one.
Honestly, Ghost outrange HT so a Terran really decides the game with his micro, if he can emp the HT / army before the Storms come in, Protoss army just dies. Terran army can fight a battle, and retreat if its not going his way, but Protoss army cannot because of concussive shells. The game is decided by the Terran player which is what many Protoss players are complaining about in PvT late game.
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On June 23 2013 01:02 GhostOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 21:57 AxionSteel wrote:On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. The difference is Terran needs to just make a fucking turret or two instead of only having to have 1 viking to prevent all drop play which is just retarded game design. This is not hard people, its not 50 turrets like in the previous game, Terrans will definitely be able to cope with no problems. The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place. Biggest load of bullshit I've ever read. I hope you get banned...you don't quote someone's post and just insult it without giving your reason. We all know what race you play. Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 21:57 AxionSteel wrote:On June 22 2013 21:45 Destructicon wrote:
Ok I can understand some of the terran qq related too WP all-ins and WP based pressures in the early and mid game, but someone will have too enlighten me how the hell is late game TvP impossible to win. Very little has actually changed, protoss have gotten Tempest, but I've yet too see enough games that I'd consider it a problem, and of the few games I have seen they don't seem that bad, this all coming from a terran perspective.
. In the late game (many) terrans have always had the belief that Protoss has always been far too powerful in the late game, with its storm/collossus deathball and mass warpin reinforcements, yet a number of protoss also believe terran to be the one who is imbalanced late game with its mass ghost/viking combo. I honestly have no idea how Terran could deal with mass tempests, they are just insanely strong, yet I've never seen one protoss be able to get many of them in a late game situation, so I can't exactly complain about them. "PROTOSS TOO STRONG, MASS TEMPEST" is the same thing as "TERRAN TOO STRONG, MASS BATTLECRUISERS" Yeah, if you get a fuckload of battlecruisers, Protoss can't stop you, but no one gets to that point unless you are ahead of the Protoss by like 3 bases (and in that case, you should just steamroll him no matter what u build) Saying "mass tempest, Protoss late game army unstoppable" is a very bad argument and a unlikely one. Honestly, Ghost outrange HT so a Terran really decides the game with his micro, if he can emp the HT / army before the Storms come in, Protoss army just dies. Terran army can fight a battle, and retreat if its not going his way, but Protoss army cannot because of concussive shells. The game is decided by the Terran player which is what many Protoss players are complaining about in PvT late game.
Yup, because someone stating that missile turrets are overpowered and causing terrans to be placed in leagues too high for their skill level clearly warrants an intelligent response. Judging by your posts in this thread, you're as biased as anyone else.
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fact #1: protoss is a bit too weak right now (source: blizzard)
fact #2: warp prism rewards skillful usage and makes the game more entertaining to watch (source: common sense)
=> perfect change
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On June 23 2013 01:11 uLysSeS1 wrote:
fact #1: protoss is a bit too weak right now (source: blizzard)
fact #2: warp prism rewards skillful usage and makes the game more entertaining to watch (source: common sense)
=> perfect change
Yes, mid-game, a decent amount of marauders/marine/medivac can wreck a Protoss gateway army head-to-head, and Protoss have no recourse but a slippery slope downhill, but with this patch the threat of a backstab evens the odds for the Protoss to stay in the game longer if he manages to land critical damage with his WP.
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Whatever happened to people taking the initiative and learning how to deal with things, rather than just whining and hoping Blizzard can make the game easier for them... :/
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just compensate this good buff requires skills by a revert nerf of a silly change like dt shrine cost for example a cheese that reward nothing but luck and a command move in a mineral line
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I'd like to see one of you Terrans post a replay of a decent tournament (doesn't necessarily have to be pro either) Diamond + with a protoss player on 30+ gates. It seems quite a few of you keep coming back to this and I just think this is preposterous. If anyone can actually show this and prove me wrong feel free to do so. As long as it is an actual high level tournament game of significance.
I definitely know this is NOT the norm. Most pro games I see don't go over 12-15 gates and I'd say 25% of games stay between 7-10. I wanna see all these 30 gate toss games, lol.
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To everyone stating that turrets cant handle warp prisms.. You really need to play this game more if you actually believe that
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I don't see any problems with the prism buff at all, even though I find it strange that Blizzard thinks that Protoss actually needs a buff. Protoss is such a good race, especially for all you guys on ladder. You can either play the Protoss deathball style or the all-in style up to high masters, very forgiving and even easy to play. I'll never understand the random Protoss ladder player who whines about their race.
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On June 22 2013 22:57 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 21:15 Sissors wrote:On June 22 2013 19:16 SolidZeal wrote:
Well, the meching player is more likely to have well placed widow mines that will stop the WP in it's tracks and give Terran an edge because of the wasted sentries, but I agree that this change will only promote WM usage, not mech persay.
Widow mines don't single shot warp prisms. On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. You only need 1 turret in SC2 to stop anything and you have Mules. Terran needs to stop whining, its not at all powerful in the slightest. The only difference is Protoss is a lot more flexible than 3base 1a deathballs, which is something we should really be promoting. As said before, while I am afraid for the all-in potential I am not per se against the warp prism change. However the amount of misinformation thrown around here is impressive. Apparently we now only need 1 turret to stop warp prism play? That is just bullshit. If that was the case I wouldn't be afraid for all-ins, you need fast turrets against toss anyway in HotS against all their other all-ins. But the idea that one turret would do enough dps against a warp prism to take it out before it left its range, or that it even has the range to cover your base is just weird.
The difference is Terran needs to just make a fucking turret or two instead of only having to have 1 viking to prevent all drop play which is just retarded game design. This is not hard people, its not 50 turrets like in the previous game, Terrans will definitely be able to cope with no problems. The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place.
Wow someone is mad? Luckily then all those terrans will drop to their rightful place, right? It isn't like except in bronze there are more toss players in every league than terran players, oh wait, it is exactly like that. One turret really won't do anything to stop warp prism play. Sure a turret ring does, but by the time a turret ring becomes realistic this change is irrelevant, since then the toss should have warp prism speed anyway. Anyway does that also mean toss won't complain about hellbats anymore? Since you can just make a cannon ring around your base? @SsDrKosS, so that is also for you, static defenses are fairly irrelevant against most types of warp prism play until you can completely ring your base with them. Also such comparisons are always doubtful. Sure turrets have good dps, but they can't shoot ground units, and we don't have planetary nexus. (Please don't say that we should make our main CC into a PF). Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 21:57 AxionSteel wrote:On June 22 2013 20:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 22 2013 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:He is right, turrets should be adjusted, bonus to mechanical damage? Cheaper cost? Faster build times? Higher rate of fire? I'm actually lost on this one. The difference is Terran needs to just make a fucking turret or two instead of only having to have 1 viking to prevent all drop play which is just retarded game design. This is not hard people, its not 50 turrets like in the previous game, Terrans will definitely be able to cope with no problems. The game has been imbalanced within this element of the game since beta, Blizzard is now just balancing it and Terran players will have to cope with having to get ranked within their rightful place, only because this imbalance is what got them their undeserved rank in the first place. Biggest load of bullshit I've ever read. . If you need more than 2-3 turrets to defend drop play your turret positioning is atrocious, and you need to learn it. Almost no Terrans understand the science of Turret positioning because before now, it just wasn't necessary. Now you have to learn it and maybe your TvZ will also improve as a result instead of blindly building turrets without a second thought.
I'll ignore the rest of your missile turret rant for now. But the idea that with 2-3 turrets you can defend warp prism play is simply hilarious. It is flat out impossible. Warp prisms are quite strong, so can take quite a bit of hits, and for most of their usage they really don't need to hover right over the mineral line.
Not to mention even if 2-3 turrets would be all it would take (how many bases is that btw in your game, which seems to have a bit more turret range), it still wouldn't be realistic against all-ins. Later, sure. But by then nothing has changed compared to before patch anyway.
Btw it is really easy to call everyone horrible regarding turret placement, I can do it too: Protoss need to understand the science of blinking. They would win every game if they weren't so horrible with it. That statement is as useful as yours, in other words: please enlighten us how we all place our turrets wrong, and where we should place them instead.
To everyone stating that turrets cant handle warp prisms.. You really need to play this game more if you actually believe that
Yeah if he switched to warp mode on top of a missile turret, sure. But really that would be pretty retarded of that player. And the reason I am dubious about this buff is not because I don't think I can handle warp prisms, it is because right now protoss has a shitton of all-ins. And with this change it has a shitton + several more around warp prisms, where dropping sentries, FF'ing ramp, warping in units is the one I am most afraid for. If that was the only thing I wouldn't be worried, but combine it with all the other all-ins that are very hard to distinguish and i am worried.
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