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And still only one or two base all-ins w/o warp prism since patch at plat level tvp 
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On June 22 2013 03:07 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 02:26 GhostOwl wrote:
It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased Or your low knowledge of the TvP match-up doesn't allow you to understand why this change is bad for Terrans. The fact Marines can shoot air is like completely irrelevant; or maybe they also fly in your version of the game so they can chase the Prism parked in the air space near your bases?
Translation: "If you were a bad ass GM like me, you would have a deeper understanding of how bad this change is for my race. But you aren't, your point is invalid. Come back when your on my level."
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On June 22 2013 03:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:07 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 02:26 GhostOwl wrote:
It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased Or your low knowledge of the TvP match-up doesn't allow you to understand why this change is bad for Terrans. The fact Marines can shoot air is like completely irrelevant; or maybe they also fly in your version of the game so they can chase the Prism parked in the air space near your bases? Translation: "If you were a bad ass GM like me, you would have a deeper understanding of how bad this change is for my race. But you aren't, your point is invalid. Come back when your on my level."
No, but saying that Terran has no right to complain because "Marines shoot air" is just hilariously simplistic. Plus he's the one insulting all the Terran players.
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On June 22 2013 03:28 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:21 Plansix wrote:On June 22 2013 03:07 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 02:26 GhostOwl wrote:
It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased Or your low knowledge of the TvP match-up doesn't allow you to understand why this change is bad for Terrans. The fact Marines can shoot air is like completely irrelevant; or maybe they also fly in your version of the game so they can chase the Prism parked in the air space near your bases? Translation: "If you were a bad ass GM like me, you would have a deeper understanding of how bad this change is for my race. But you aren't, your point is invalid. Come back when your on my level." No, but saying that Terran has no right to complain because "Marines shoot air" is just hilariously simplistic. Plus he's the one insulting all the Terran players.
I think its a little rich that Terrans are complaining at all, since the hellbat has escaped un-nerfed, medivacs are still super fast and widow mines are still bad ass. We all have shit that is stupid OP and a bitch to deal with, as it was intended.
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I can't wait to see Bisu tear things up with his top 1 shuttle control.
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On June 22 2013 03:36 fearus wrote:
I can't wait to see Bisu tear things up with his top 1 shuttle control.
Go go go, 14 min base race.
About time Terran started placing patrolling Marines or forward turrets w/ researched range before they push out as the norm.
Can't wait for Protoss all-kills because opponent pulled widow mine from blind spot and forgot to replace it with a turret.
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On June 22 2013 03:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:07 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 02:26 GhostOwl wrote:
It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased Or your low knowledge of the TvP match-up doesn't allow you to understand why this change is bad for Terrans. The fact Marines can shoot air is like completely irrelevant; or maybe they also fly in your version of the game so they can chase the Prism parked in the air space near your bases? Translation: "If you were a bad ass GM like me, you would have a deeper understanding of how bad this change is for my race. But you aren't, your point is invalid. Come back when your on my level."
Reminds me of another GM-
Where is Avilo actually.
+ Show Spoiler +Actually Painuser was another GM... and god knows how good any of terrans bitching on Artosis' show are anyway. But yeah gomtvt that was a healthy era wasn't it. That's why this community focuses on awesome gameplay rather than drama. Because the game is so well designed and interesting.
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On June 22 2013 04:57 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:21 Plansix wrote:On June 22 2013 03:07 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 02:26 GhostOwl wrote:
It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased Or your low knowledge of the TvP match-up doesn't allow you to understand why this change is bad for Terrans. The fact Marines can shoot air is like completely irrelevant; or maybe they also fly in your version of the game so they can chase the Prism parked in the air space near your bases? Translation: "If you were a bad ass GM like me, you would have a deeper understanding of how bad this change is for my race. But you aren't, your point is invalid. Come back when your on my level." Reminds me of another GM- Where is Avilo actually. + Show Spoiler +Actually Painuser was another GM... and god knows how good any of terrans bitching on Artosis' show are anyway. But yeah gomtvt that was a healthy era wasn't it. That's why this community focuses on awesome gameplay rather than drama. Because the game is so well designed and interesting.
This is the problem with people like you, you live in the past as if it was still 2010 WoL Terran on maps with 35 seconds rush distance. The game has evolved since then, move on.
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On June 22 2013 03:11 J.E.G. wrote:And still only one or two base all-ins w/o warp prism since patch at plat level tvp
That doesnt say anything about balance.
half pf thw Terrans at masters play some weird 2base (sometimes even 1base) allins. e.g. 2rax, 6rax, 2base hellbat allins, reactored hellion expands blablabla...
Still, all the forumterrans will swear that Terran does not have a single allin possibility.
TLDR: people play shit on low levels. learn to deal with it.
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Warp Prism all-ins
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iLDdQfN.gif)
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On June 22 2013 05:54 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 04:57 Sabu113 wrote:On June 22 2013 03:21 Plansix wrote:On June 22 2013 03:07 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 02:26 GhostOwl wrote:
It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased Or your low knowledge of the TvP match-up doesn't allow you to understand why this change is bad for Terrans. The fact Marines can shoot air is like completely irrelevant; or maybe they also fly in your version of the game so they can chase the Prism parked in the air space near your bases? Translation: "If you were a bad ass GM like me, you would have a deeper understanding of how bad this change is for my race. But you aren't, your point is invalid. Come back when your on my level." Reminds me of another GM- Where is Avilo actually. + Show Spoiler +Actually Painuser was another GM... and god knows how good any of terrans bitching on Artosis' show are anyway. But yeah gomtvt that was a healthy era wasn't it. That's why this community focuses on awesome gameplay rather than drama. Because the game is so well designed and interesting. This is the problem with people like you, you live in the past as if it was still 2010 WoL Terran on maps with 35 seconds rush distance. The game has evolved since then, move on.
GomTvT was during 2011, not 2010. And you can't blame people for talking about it. It was the worst balance time ever even compared the patchzerg era. We are talking about 20+ terrans in code S. Even during the patchzerg era that got not even close to that number.
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I've been trying to use the warp prism more in p vs p... But, the difference is so massive that I'm not even sure the change has gone into effect. Zzz. The warp prism seems so slow to me... It used to be even slower? Jesus christ.
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Northern Ireland23732 Posts
On June 22 2013 05:54 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 04:57 Sabu113 wrote:On June 22 2013 03:21 Plansix wrote:On June 22 2013 03:07 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 02:26 GhostOwl wrote:
It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased Or your low knowledge of the TvP match-up doesn't allow you to understand why this change is bad for Terrans. The fact Marines can shoot air is like completely irrelevant; or maybe they also fly in your version of the game so they can chase the Prism parked in the air space near your bases? Translation: "If you were a bad ass GM like me, you would have a deeper understanding of how bad this change is for my race. But you aren't, your point is invalid. Come back when your on my level." Reminds me of another GM- Where is Avilo actually. + Show Spoiler +Actually Painuser was another GM... and god knows how good any of terrans bitching on Artosis' show are anyway. But yeah gomtvt that was a healthy era wasn't it. That's why this community focuses on awesome gameplay rather than drama. Because the game is so well designed and interesting. This is the problem with people like you, you live in the past as if it was still 2010 WoL Terran on maps with 35 seconds rush distance. The game has evolved since then, move on.
Be that as it may, what kind of play is this specifically bolstering for Protoss that isn't possible in the current build in PvT? Certain builds receive a boost, like the Tails DT drop, but that build's strength is due to the bloody MSC deathcannon. I had high hopes for the MSC as an auxilliary macro aid, but it's turned out as I feared in being primarily used to aid allins, or to make greedy play hard to punish. If anything vT is the matchup I see it affecting least, with PvP Immortal drops might come back into vogue, and in vZ you can exploit the Zerg's lack of pre-hydra ground-air options.
I haven't been playing lately, I'm bad anyway so I'm not seeing any experimentation on the ladder done by decent players. Would like to hear what's actually been going down!
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On June 20 2013 06:49 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +Thank you so much for helping us test the Warp Prism changes. We're going to put the current Warp Prism changes in the balance test map into the game this week because we feel it is a good minor buff to Protoss harassing capabilities.
Changes are:
o Movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.
o Acceleration increased from 2.125 to 2.625.
We will be closely monitoring both ladder and tournament games to make sure everything goes as expected once the changes go live.
As for the other changes in the balance test map, we're still looking into them and more playtesting/feedback from you guys will be greatly appreciated. We believe this collaborative community effort is really helpful for the game. Thank you.
Cool patch, i'm glad to see this...
I wonder though why those numbers 2.953 and 2.625 are so specific (with so many decimals) i wonder how they balanced that... why not 3 and 2.6 ? it must be connected to some other units' movement speeds... hmm
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On June 22 2013 07:52 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 05:54 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 04:57 Sabu113 wrote:On June 22 2013 03:21 Plansix wrote:On June 22 2013 03:07 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 02:26 GhostOwl wrote:
It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased Or your low knowledge of the TvP match-up doesn't allow you to understand why this change is bad for Terrans. The fact Marines can shoot air is like completely irrelevant; or maybe they also fly in your version of the game so they can chase the Prism parked in the air space near your bases? Translation: "If you were a bad ass GM like me, you would have a deeper understanding of how bad this change is for my race. But you aren't, your point is invalid. Come back when your on my level." Reminds me of another GM- Where is Avilo actually. + Show Spoiler +Actually Painuser was another GM... and god knows how good any of terrans bitching on Artosis' show are anyway. But yeah gomtvt that was a healthy era wasn't it. That's why this community focuses on awesome gameplay rather than drama. Because the game is so well designed and interesting. This is the problem with people like you, you live in the past as if it was still 2010 WoL Terran on maps with 35 seconds rush distance. The game has evolved since then, move on. Be that as it may, what kind of play is this specifically bolstering for Protoss that isn't possible in the current build in PvT? Certain builds receive a boost, like the Tails DT drop, but that build's strength is due to the bloody MSC deathcannon. I had high hopes for the MSC as an auxilliary macro aid, but it's turned out as I feared in being primarily used to aid allins, or to make greedy play hard to punish. If anything vT is the matchup I see it affecting least, with PvP Immortal drops might come back into vogue, and in vZ you can exploit the Zerg's lack of pre-hydra ground-air options. I haven't been playing lately, I'm bad anyway so I'm not seeing any experimentation on the ladder done by decent players. Would like to hear what's actually been going down!
To be fair, zergs had a hard time killing the warp prisms before the buff, so not all that much has really changed in that regard.
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Northern Ireland23732 Posts
On June 22 2013 07:56 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 07:52 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 22 2013 05:54 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 04:57 Sabu113 wrote:On June 22 2013 03:21 Plansix wrote:On June 22 2013 03:07 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 02:26 GhostOwl wrote:
It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased Or your low knowledge of the TvP match-up doesn't allow you to understand why this change is bad for Terrans. The fact Marines can shoot air is like completely irrelevant; or maybe they also fly in your version of the game so they can chase the Prism parked in the air space near your bases? Translation: "If you were a bad ass GM like me, you would have a deeper understanding of how bad this change is for my race. But you aren't, your point is invalid. Come back when your on my level." Reminds me of another GM- Where is Avilo actually. + Show Spoiler +Actually Painuser was another GM... and god knows how good any of terrans bitching on Artosis' show are anyway. But yeah gomtvt that was a healthy era wasn't it. That's why this community focuses on awesome gameplay rather than drama. Because the game is so well designed and interesting. This is the problem with people like you, you live in the past as if it was still 2010 WoL Terran on maps with 35 seconds rush distance. The game has evolved since then, move on. Be that as it may, what kind of play is this specifically bolstering for Protoss that isn't possible in the current build in PvT? Certain builds receive a boost, like the Tails DT drop, but that build's strength is due to the bloody MSC deathcannon. I had high hopes for the MSC as an auxilliary macro aid, but it's turned out as I feared in being primarily used to aid allins, or to make greedy play hard to punish. If anything vT is the matchup I see it affecting least, with PvP Immortal drops might come back into vogue, and in vZ you can exploit the Zerg's lack of pre-hydra ground-air options. I haven't been playing lately, I'm bad anyway so I'm not seeing any experimentation on the ladder done by decent players. Would like to hear what's actually been going down! To be fair, zergs had a hard time killing the warp prisms before the buff, so not all that much has really changed in that regard.
Yeah, but it's a bit speedier and manouverable. I recall seeing HerO using a Prism and loading with 4 Zealots, dropping on Queens and surrounding the Queens and sniping them.
Zealots aren't quite hellbats, but a more speedy WP might make it easier to do those kind of plays, chase fleeing drones for extra hits and stuff like that in the phase of the game where you would usually be harassing with Phoenixes.
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On June 22 2013 07:52 Wombat_NI wrote:
Be that as it may, what kind of play is this specifically bolstering for Protoss that isn't possible in the current build in PvT? Certain builds receive a boost, like the Tails DT drop, but that build's strength is due to the bloody MSC deathcannon. I had high hopes for the MSC as an auxilliary macro aid, but it's turned out as I feared in being primarily used to aid allins, or to make greedy play hard to punish. If anything vT is the matchup I see it affecting least, with PvP Immortal drops might come back into vogue, and in vZ you can exploit the Zerg's lack of pre-hydra ground-air options.
I haven't been playing lately, I'm bad anyway so I'm not seeing any experimentation on the ladder done by decent players. Would like to hear what's actually been going down!
It strenghtens midgame for Protoss, which is not a good thing considering this is the phase in which Terran has to use his initiative to build a lead, or simply win. Strenghtening Protoss' midgame also means they will have an easier time getting to lategame, with little to no hope for Terran.
Zealots/DTs raids are extremely annoying to deal with because your army is supposed to be on the other side of the map pressuring, and you have to spent attention/time microing the units coming from your production while Protoss is free to let his units in autopilot (unmicroed Zealots/DTs massacre unmicroed bio in small numbers). Before, a single Viking could make sure the Prism would be destroyed even if Protoss parked it somewhere around your base; now it's no longer possible since you won't catch the Prism if he unloads/warps and goes away.
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Northern Ireland23732 Posts
Yeah that does kind of make sense when it's put in those terms.
PvT is something of a see-saw with corresponding periods of strength. P has early map control, wrested off them in the midgame when medivacs come out but that window is small and the pendulum swings somewhat in lategame, only returning back to T imo when you get to the fabled 'superlategame'.
I still would rather see a MSC cannon nerf, with corresponding buffs elsewhere (like to the Warp Prism). I've felt recently It's that Protoss can sit back a lot safer, while exerting that kind of map pressure. I mean, there's really not much of a risk apart from the VERY top level in sending a single warp prism out onto the map if you have the crutch of photo overcharge, forcefields and other things in your arsenal.
When HoTS was first being played in tournaments Protoss were getting wrecked by drop play, until they just figured that they should turtle and tech harder on 2 bases for longer, cutting units if necessary and make up their inevitable supply deficit with an upgrade lead and the tech they need for lategame.
I'll take a more fun PvZ and PvP, but I do think PvT has taken a bit of a hit and become stale as hell. In WoL, it was similarly compositionally stagnant but I felt there was more finesse and execution required from the Protoss player defensively.
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On June 22 2013 03:31 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:28 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 03:21 Plansix wrote:On June 22 2013 03:07 TheDwf wrote:On June 22 2013 02:26 GhostOwl wrote:
It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased Or your low knowledge of the TvP match-up doesn't allow you to understand why this change is bad for Terrans. The fact Marines can shoot air is like completely irrelevant; or maybe they also fly in your version of the game so they can chase the Prism parked in the air space near your bases? Translation: "If you were a bad ass GM like me, you would have a deeper understanding of how bad this change is for my race. But you aren't, your point is invalid. Come back when your on my level." No, but saying that Terran has no right to complain because "Marines shoot air" is just hilariously simplistic. Plus he's the one insulting all the Terran players. I think its a little rich that Terrans are complaining at all, since the hellbat has escaped un-nerfed, medivacs are still super fast and widow mines are still bad ass. We all have shit that is stupid OP and a bitch to deal with, as it was intended.
where's zerg's OP unit in ZvT? T T
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EPT
