Hmm....wouldnt this be difficult to stop? I heard they outrun vikings now...Gotta have some vikings on patrol, is that the only solution to defending zealot harass?
Also FYI, the 60MB patch is mainly for updating Simplified Chinese translations in the campaign map files to prepare for its launch in China next month.
On June 22 2013 00:28 ottoottoottootto wrote: Hmm....wouldnt this be difficult to stop? I heard they outrun vikings now...Gotta have some vikings on patrol, is that the only solution to defending zealot harass?
Sickening right? If only protoss had to constantly split their army and have stalkers in their main to snipe incoming drops that they're never going to catch unless terran screws up.
another nice balance tweak by Blizzard. as usual , Blizzard is doing a great job tweaking yet their latest RTS product. David Kim has really come into his own.
As a heads up to everyone with the sound bug: Alt+S twice (to turn the sound off and then back on) should kill the sound loop when you get it. It's just a band aid, but it's better than having the sound on loop forever.
On June 22 2013 00:58 ThirdDegree wrote: As a heads up to everyone with the sound bug: Alt+S twice (to turn the sound off and then back on) should kill the sound loop when you get it. It's just a band aid, but it's better than having the sound on loop forever.
thx a lot sir! i get that sound bug every couple of weeks.
On June 20 2013 06:54 Akusta wrote: Prisms move faster than vikings. This is just silly.
Yeah. Can't wait to have Zealots 24/7 rampaging my base because I can't finish a Prism with a Viking...
speed medivacs same problem
afaik barracks can't be put in medivacs
"afaik warp prisms cant heal"
Shall we continue the dumb comparison?
Your argument is invalid. Which is better? 3+ heal to one unit? Or arbitrary instant troop deployment across the map from 30 production facilities?
Nothing changes late-game from right now. 30 warpgates? Current protoss lategame would already have prism speed. If you're going to fear monger, at least suggest some reasonable balance concerns -_-
Well, if the protoss is 60 supply down and spent all money on warpgates, why haven't the terran just walked with a few marauders and killed everything already?
Ah the never ending stories of people warping in 30 zealots from a WP. Because the WP is what lost that game, really. It wasn't that the protoss got to sit there and get 4500 minerals in warpgates.
And 3000 minerals of zealots
Protoss units are free just like starport units are tier 1
Enough with the 30 zealot story, anyone with a working brain knows that any race that get that kind of production will ROFLSTOMP anyone mineral or gas blocked, 5 base Zerg w/ 5 macro hatches will effing own you on the remax if you are stuck on two base production levels.
If you are losing to mass basic level units (zealot/zerling/marine) on remax... It means you didn't prepare for it!
30 rax, macro hatches or gateways need a huge area! You simply weren't scouting enough!
As I posted before, this change is what is needed to make scouting necessary instead of optional in WoL. Let's face aside from Nydus worms, in WoL there was no one unit that could vaporize a base's infrastructure.
One medivac of 4 stimmed marauders took forever to kill any building. Same goes for WoL prisms, you could literally finish building a turret in time to ward off the drop while some marines kited the zealots to death. The threat of drop ships needed to increase.
David let Terran have a taste now via afterburners and widow mine/hellbat drops... now Protoss get to be a pain in the ass in mid-game too along with Terran (hellbat and WM drops) and Zerg (muta)
On June 21 2013 15:37 DarkLordOlli wrote: Watching HerO stream with the new prism speed right now. It's not gamebreaking but he sure gets in the wins - through macro. His third in PvT is earlier most notably as I predicted earlier in this thread. Lategame not directly affected in the slightest except that protoss will have a good lategame army a bit quicker.
As it should be, a player with his insane multitasking should have the tools to use it. Loving the change so far.
I wonder if Protoss will ever use the Warp Prism just to drop off stuff for harrass instead of moving into an enemy base, unloading the four Zealots or Sentries and then warping in additional forces. Why not get three Warp Prisms, get into the enemy base, unload the 12 Zealots and then move the Warp Prisms out again OR keep one of them for warp ins and the other two go to other bases. The point of this would be to kill off a Queen or Spore Crawler in a quick blow while keeping the Prisms safe; even Terran bases (with the production facilities) could be wrecked by this ... at least cost him some addons which take time to rebuild.
Committing 12 zealots and 3 warp prisms to something like that will lose you the game. Unless you're talking about lategame in which case why make 3 warp prisms when you can make one and warp in?
Why will it lose you the game? The big idea is NOT to lose the Warp Prisms - by keeping it mobile - but to overwhelm (4 Zealots dont really "overwhelm" + Show Spoiler +
=kill before the opponent can react properly
a Spore or Queen) the core of the Zerg hatchery defense ... Queens and Spores. If there is just one Queen you could even pick up any remaining Zealots and drop them in another base like Terrans do with Hellbats.
Warping in stuff takes time and having more than one Warp Prism lets you start the battle far faster. The whole point is to kill before the Zerglings have run back to their base to defend.
Oh and obviously this is NOT a late game strategy but rather aimed at the really early game. You have to have a really good wall with more than just one cannon ... just to be safe. It only costs minerals and should be executed before the Zerg has any serious anti-air (Mutalisks, Hydralisks or larger amounts of Spore Crawlers).
After this harrassment is done you can use the Warp Prisms as "mobile forward pylons" to warp in Zealot harrass squads and then get to a safe spot or you could use them as patrol vehicles to look for Overlords. The big part is that you do not use any gas for the units built.
You don't have random 1800 minerals in the early game. And if you did, there's a million better ways to spend them. Like taking a third base for example. Or warping in units that will help you defend that third base. Or teching. Or making cannons to protect your third base. Or building more probes. Building a macro nexus to build even more probes. Building forges. Building 18 pylons. What have you. All of the things above will probably work out better for me. There's also a few sarcastic ones in there but I won't tell you which ones they are.
There is no way for Protoss to "harrass early" except with their specialized units (Oracle, Phoenix) for the job. This stops instantly when the Zerg builds Spore Crawlers and/or maybe a few extra Queens. If you go for the "dozen Zealots" you might be able to continue harrassing while keeping your units reasonably safe ... I have no idea, but maybe some smart Protoss will figure out a build for it ... like that "counter a CC first by building a hatchery in his natural" build which Catz brought up again + Show Spoiler +
but which was really shown to us first by TLO in the TLOwnage at the end of beta
and which has been used in at least one pro match in Korea (against Innovation - unsuccessfully, BUT with several mistakes made by the Zerg ... it was a good start though and had the Terran on the back foot for a while).
The whole point of my "train of thought" is to be open minded and think about new possibilities. It is not an "every day regular build", but in certain cituations if could work ... if the Zerg is - greedy, - likes Zerglings a lot, - does not build preemptive Spore Crawlers and/or - does not build lots of Queens. The bottom line is: It could work because it is something new and thus unforeseen by the opponent ...
----
The most serious of your options is to get a third base up and running, but that will cost a lot of resources simply because you will need at least 800 minerals for a Nexus, a pylon (or two) and a cannon or two at that base, which will leave you with just 1000 minerals worth of Zealots to defend. Not a whole lot. As I said above the point is to potentially GET OUT AGAIN with all your forces without even needing a Mothership Core. The problem of the usual Warp Prism harrass is that you happily warp in tons of stuff and then lose it all if the Zerg simply has more stuff, because you only have space for 4 Zealots in your Warp Prism. If you build more than one Warp Prism you can use your force to attack AND do significant damage AND get out again.
Here's the problem with this whole 3 warp prisms 12 zealot thing. The only way you can pull it off is to pump out zealots from the start of the game and immediately get a robo for warp prisms. If the attack comes any later you potentially have mutalisks there to greet you. If your attack fails you are left without much tech, very few gateways and no third base. Basically all you have is some goofy cheese that loses if the Zerg makes any nonzero amount of roaches (we counter warp prisims with roaches by the way, not spores).
On June 21 2013 15:37 DarkLordOlli wrote: Watching HerO stream with the new prism speed right now. It's not gamebreaking but he sure gets in the wins - through macro. His third in PvT is earlier most notably as I predicted earlier in this thread. Lategame not directly affected in the slightest except that protoss will have a good lategame army a bit quicker.
As it should be, a player with his insane multitasking should have the tools to use it. Loving the change so far.
I wonder if Protoss will ever use the Warp Prism just to drop off stuff for harrass instead of moving into an enemy base, unloading the four Zealots or Sentries and then warping in additional forces. Why not get three Warp Prisms, get into the enemy base, unload the 12 Zealots and then move the Warp Prisms out again OR keep one of them for warp ins and the other two go to other bases. The point of this would be to kill off a Queen or Spore Crawler in a quick blow while keeping the Prisms safe; even Terran bases (with the production facilities) could be wrecked by this ... at least cost him some addons which take time to rebuild.
Committing 12 zealots and 3 warp prisms to something like that will lose you the game. Unless you're talking about lategame in which case why make 3 warp prisms when you can make one and warp in?
Why will it lose you the game? The big idea is NOT to lose the Warp Prisms - by keeping it mobile - but to overwhelm (4 Zealots dont really "overwhelm" + Show Spoiler +
=kill before the opponent can react properly
a Spore or Queen) the core of the Zerg hatchery defense ... Queens and Spores. If there is just one Queen you could even pick up any remaining Zealots and drop them in another base like Terrans do with Hellbats.
Warping in stuff takes time and having more than one Warp Prism lets you start the battle far faster. The whole point is to kill before the Zerglings have run back to their base to defend.
Oh and obviously this is NOT a late game strategy but rather aimed at the really early game. You have to have a really good wall with more than just one cannon ... just to be safe. It only costs minerals and should be executed before the Zerg has any serious anti-air (Mutalisks, Hydralisks or larger amounts of Spore Crawlers).
After this harrassment is done you can use the Warp Prisms as "mobile forward pylons" to warp in Zealot harrass squads and then get to a safe spot or you could use them as patrol vehicles to look for Overlords. The big part is that you do not use any gas for the units built.
You don't have random 1800 minerals in the early game. And if you did, there's a million better ways to spend them. Like taking a third base for example. Or warping in units that will help you defend that third base. Or teching. Or making cannons to protect your third base. Or building more probes. Building a macro nexus to build even more probes. Building forges. Building 18 pylons. What have you. All of the things above will probably work out better for me. There's also a few sarcastic ones in there but I won't tell you which ones they are.
There is no way for Protoss to "harrass early" except with their specialized units (Oracle, Phoenix) for the job. This stops instantly when the Zerg builds Spore Crawlers and/or maybe a few extra Queens. If you go for the "dozen Zealots" you might be able to continue harrassing while keeping your units reasonably safe ... I have no idea, but maybe some smart Protoss will figure out a build for it ... like that "counter a CC first by building a hatchery in his natural" build which Catz brought up again + Show Spoiler +
but which was really shown to us first by TLO in the TLOwnage at the end of beta
and which has been used in at least one pro match in Korea (against Innovation - unsuccessfully, BUT with several mistakes made by the Zerg ... it was a good start though and had the Terran on the back foot for a while).
The whole point of my "train of thought" is to be open minded and think about new possibilities. It is not an "every day regular build", but in certain cituations if could work ... if the Zerg is - greedy, - likes Zerglings a lot, - does not build preemptive Spore Crawlers and/or - does not build lots of Queens. The bottom line is: It could work because it is something new and thus unforeseen by the opponent ...
----
The most serious of your options is to get a third base up and running, but that will cost a lot of resources simply because you will need at least 800 minerals for a Nexus, a pylon (or two) and a cannon or two at that base, which will leave you with just 1000 minerals worth of Zealots to defend. Not a whole lot. As I said above the point is to potentially GET OUT AGAIN with all your forces without even needing a Mothership Core. The problem of the usual Warp Prism harrass is that you happily warp in tons of stuff and then lose it all if the Zerg simply has more stuff, because you only have space for 4 Zealots in your Warp Prism. If you build more than one Warp Prism you can use your force to attack AND do significant damage AND get out again.
Here's the problem with this whole 3 warp prisms 12 zealot thing. The only way you can pull it off is to pump out zealots from the start of the game and immediately get a robo for warp prisms. If the attack comes any later you potentially have mutalisks there to greet you. If your attack fails you are left without much tech, very few gateways and no third base. Basically all you have is some goofy cheese that loses if the Zerg makes any nonzero amount of roaches (we counter warp prisims with roaches by the way, not spores).
As I said it is not a "regular build" but rather possible under certain circumstances. 1. If the Zerg is really greedy and builds almost no units but a lot of bases instead. 2. Maybe as a follow-up after a successful Phoenix / Oracle harrassment which is stopped by Spore Crawlers.
I leave the details to the pros and wouldnt discard the idea right from the start and especially the "do serious drops like Terrans and jump from main to third to natural" part is something new that could be added to the arsenal of Protoss strategies. Sniping Queens should always be worth it, but you need to have enough firepower for that and warping in stuff slows you down. Putting 12 Zealots in the Warp Prisms was just the initial idea, but it might work with a mix of Sentries and Immortals or a whole bunch of Stalkers (you could land them at a corner of the main base where you couldnt blink to for example. Colossi-micro during a battle could also be useful, but then Protoss already has the biggest amount of buttons to click - Forcefield, Blink, potentially Feedback / Storm.
Using Warp Prisms to evacuate your ground forces from the enemy base after a harrass will save the energy on the MSC for defense and I think that is another good part of the idea. Just try it before discarding it as useless.
On June 21 2013 15:37 DarkLordOlli wrote: Watching HerO stream with the new prism speed right now. It's not gamebreaking but he sure gets in the wins - through macro. His third in PvT is earlier most notably as I predicted earlier in this thread. Lategame not directly affected in the slightest except that protoss will have a good lategame army a bit quicker.
As it should be, a player with his insane multitasking should have the tools to use it. Loving the change so far.
I wonder if Protoss will ever use the Warp Prism just to drop off stuff for harrass instead of moving into an enemy base, unloading the four Zealots or Sentries and then warping in additional forces. Why not get three Warp Prisms, get into the enemy base, unload the 12 Zealots and then move the Warp Prisms out again OR keep one of them for warp ins and the other two go to other bases. The point of this would be to kill off a Queen or Spore Crawler in a quick blow while keeping the Prisms safe; even Terran bases (with the production facilities) could be wrecked by this ... at least cost him some addons which take time to rebuild.
Committing 12 zealots and 3 warp prisms to something like that will lose you the game. Unless you're talking about lategame in which case why make 3 warp prisms when you can make one and warp in?
Why will it lose you the game? The big idea is NOT to lose the Warp Prisms - by keeping it mobile - but to overwhelm (4 Zealots dont really "overwhelm" + Show Spoiler +
=kill before the opponent can react properly
a Spore or Queen) the core of the Zerg hatchery defense ... Queens and Spores. If there is just one Queen you could even pick up any remaining Zealots and drop them in another base like Terrans do with Hellbats.
Warping in stuff takes time and having more than one Warp Prism lets you start the battle far faster. The whole point is to kill before the Zerglings have run back to their base to defend.
Oh and obviously this is NOT a late game strategy but rather aimed at the really early game. You have to have a really good wall with more than just one cannon ... just to be safe. It only costs minerals and should be executed before the Zerg has any serious anti-air (Mutalisks, Hydralisks or larger amounts of Spore Crawlers).
After this harrassment is done you can use the Warp Prisms as "mobile forward pylons" to warp in Zealot harrass squads and then get to a safe spot or you could use them as patrol vehicles to look for Overlords. The big part is that you do not use any gas for the units built.
You don't have random 1800 minerals in the early game. And if you did, there's a million better ways to spend them. Like taking a third base for example. Or warping in units that will help you defend that third base. Or teching. Or making cannons to protect your third base. Or building more probes. Building a macro nexus to build even more probes. Building forges. Building 18 pylons. What have you. All of the things above will probably work out better for me. There's also a few sarcastic ones in there but I won't tell you which ones they are.
There is no way for Protoss to "harrass early" except with their specialized units (Oracle, Phoenix) for the job. This stops instantly when the Zerg builds Spore Crawlers and/or maybe a few extra Queens. If you go for the "dozen Zealots" you might be able to continue harrassing while keeping your units reasonably safe ... I have no idea, but maybe some smart Protoss will figure out a build for it ... like that "counter a CC first by building a hatchery in his natural" build which Catz brought up again + Show Spoiler +
but which was really shown to us first by TLO in the TLOwnage at the end of beta
and which has been used in at least one pro match in Korea (against Innovation - unsuccessfully, BUT with several mistakes made by the Zerg ... it was a good start though and had the Terran on the back foot for a while).
The whole point of my "train of thought" is to be open minded and think about new possibilities. It is not an "every day regular build", but in certain cituations if could work ... if the Zerg is - greedy, - likes Zerglings a lot, - does not build preemptive Spore Crawlers and/or - does not build lots of Queens. The bottom line is: It could work because it is something new and thus unforeseen by the opponent ...
----
The most serious of your options is to get a third base up and running, but that will cost a lot of resources simply because you will need at least 800 minerals for a Nexus, a pylon (or two) and a cannon or two at that base, which will leave you with just 1000 minerals worth of Zealots to defend. Not a whole lot. As I said above the point is to potentially GET OUT AGAIN with all your forces without even needing a Mothership Core. The problem of the usual Warp Prism harrass is that you happily warp in tons of stuff and then lose it all if the Zerg simply has more stuff, because you only have space for 4 Zealots in your Warp Prism. If you build more than one Warp Prism you can use your force to attack AND do significant damage AND get out again.
Here's the problem with this whole 3 warp prisms 12 zealot thing. The only way you can pull it off is to pump out zealots from the start of the game and immediately get a robo for warp prisms. If the attack comes any later you potentially have mutalisks there to greet you. If your attack fails you are left without much tech, very few gateways and no third base. Basically all you have is some goofy cheese that loses if the Zerg makes any nonzero amount of roaches (we counter warp prisims with roaches by the way, not spores).
As I said it is not a "regular build" but rather possible under certain circumstances. 1. If the Zerg is really greedy and builds almost no units but a lot of bases instead. 2. Maybe as a follow-up after a successful Phoenix / Oracle harrassment which is stopped by Spore Crawlers.
I leave the details to the pros and wouldnt discard the idea right from the start and especially the "do serious drops like Terrans and jump from main to third to natural" part is something new that could be added to the arsenal of Protoss strategies. Sniping Queens should always be worth it, but you need to have enough firepower for that and warping in stuff slows you down. Putting 12 Zealots in the Warp Prisms was just the initial idea, but it might work with a mix of Sentries and Immortals or a whole bunch of Stalkers (you could land them at a corner of the main base where you couldnt blink to for example. Colossi-micro during a battle could also be useful, but then Protoss already has the biggest amount of buttons to click - Forcefield, Blink, potentially Feedback / Storm.
Using Warp Prisms to evacuate your ground forces from the enemy base after a harrass will save the energy on the MSC for defense and I think that is another good part of the idea. Just try it before discarding it as useless.
You could just give it a shot yourself and show us how good it is, rather than theory crafting something. There is now better way to prove something is viable than by doing it.
It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased
On June 21 2013 15:37 DarkLordOlli wrote: Watching HerO stream with the new prism speed right now. It's not gamebreaking but he sure gets in the wins - through macro. His third in PvT is earlier most notably as I predicted earlier in this thread. Lategame not directly affected in the slightest except that protoss will have a good lategame army a bit quicker.
As it should be, a player with his insane multitasking should have the tools to use it. Loving the change so far.
I wonder if Protoss will ever use the Warp Prism just to drop off stuff for harrass instead of moving into an enemy base, unloading the four Zealots or Sentries and then warping in additional forces. Why not get three Warp Prisms, get into the enemy base, unload the 12 Zealots and then move the Warp Prisms out again OR keep one of them for warp ins and the other two go to other bases. The point of this would be to kill off a Queen or Spore Crawler in a quick blow while keeping the Prisms safe; even Terran bases (with the production facilities) could be wrecked by this ... at least cost him some addons which take time to rebuild.
Committing 12 zealots and 3 warp prisms to something like that will lose you the game. Unless you're talking about lategame in which case why make 3 warp prisms when you can make one and warp in?
Why will it lose you the game? The big idea is NOT to lose the Warp Prisms - by keeping it mobile - but to overwhelm (4 Zealots dont really "overwhelm" + Show Spoiler +
=kill before the opponent can react properly
a Spore or Queen) the core of the Zerg hatchery defense ... Queens and Spores. If there is just one Queen you could even pick up any remaining Zealots and drop them in another base like Terrans do with Hellbats.
Warping in stuff takes time and having more than one Warp Prism lets you start the battle far faster. The whole point is to kill before the Zerglings have run back to their base to defend.
Oh and obviously this is NOT a late game strategy but rather aimed at the really early game. You have to have a really good wall with more than just one cannon ... just to be safe. It only costs minerals and should be executed before the Zerg has any serious anti-air (Mutalisks, Hydralisks or larger amounts of Spore Crawlers).
After this harrassment is done you can use the Warp Prisms as "mobile forward pylons" to warp in Zealot harrass squads and then get to a safe spot or you could use them as patrol vehicles to look for Overlords. The big part is that you do not use any gas for the units built.
You don't have random 1800 minerals in the early game. And if you did, there's a million better ways to spend them. Like taking a third base for example. Or warping in units that will help you defend that third base. Or teching. Or making cannons to protect your third base. Or building more probes. Building a macro nexus to build even more probes. Building forges. Building 18 pylons. What have you. All of the things above will probably work out better for me. There's also a few sarcastic ones in there but I won't tell you which ones they are.
There is no way for Protoss to "harrass early" except with their specialized units (Oracle, Phoenix) for the job. This stops instantly when the Zerg builds Spore Crawlers and/or maybe a few extra Queens. If you go for the "dozen Zealots" you might be able to continue harrassing while keeping your units reasonably safe ... I have no idea, but maybe some smart Protoss will figure out a build for it ... like that "counter a CC first by building a hatchery in his natural" build which Catz brought up again + Show Spoiler +
but which was really shown to us first by TLO in the TLOwnage at the end of beta
and which has been used in at least one pro match in Korea (against Innovation - unsuccessfully, BUT with several mistakes made by the Zerg ... it was a good start though and had the Terran on the back foot for a while).
The whole point of my "train of thought" is to be open minded and think about new possibilities. It is not an "every day regular build", but in certain cituations if could work ... if the Zerg is - greedy, - likes Zerglings a lot, - does not build preemptive Spore Crawlers and/or - does not build lots of Queens. The bottom line is: It could work because it is something new and thus unforeseen by the opponent ...
----
The most serious of your options is to get a third base up and running, but that will cost a lot of resources simply because you will need at least 800 minerals for a Nexus, a pylon (or two) and a cannon or two at that base, which will leave you with just 1000 minerals worth of Zealots to defend. Not a whole lot. As I said above the point is to potentially GET OUT AGAIN with all your forces without even needing a Mothership Core. The problem of the usual Warp Prism harrass is that you happily warp in tons of stuff and then lose it all if the Zerg simply has more stuff, because you only have space for 4 Zealots in your Warp Prism. If you build more than one Warp Prism you can use your force to attack AND do significant damage AND get out again.
Here's the problem with this whole 3 warp prisms 12 zealot thing. The only way you can pull it off is to pump out zealots from the start of the game and immediately get a robo for warp prisms. If the attack comes any later you potentially have mutalisks there to greet you. If your attack fails you are left without much tech, very few gateways and no third base. Basically all you have is some goofy cheese that loses if the Zerg makes any nonzero amount of roaches (we counter warp prisims with roaches by the way, not spores).
As I said it is not a "regular build" but rather possible under certain circumstances. 1. If the Zerg is really greedy and builds almost no units but a lot of bases instead. 2. Maybe as a follow-up after a successful Phoenix / Oracle harrassment which is stopped by Spore Crawlers.
I leave the details to the pros and wouldnt discard the idea right from the start and especially the "do serious drops like Terrans and jump from main to third to natural" part is something new that could be added to the arsenal of Protoss strategies. Sniping Queens should always be worth it, but you need to have enough firepower for that and warping in stuff slows you down. Putting 12 Zealots in the Warp Prisms was just the initial idea, but it might work with a mix of Sentries and Immortals or a whole bunch of Stalkers (you could land them at a corner of the main base where you couldnt blink to for example. Colossi-micro during a battle could also be useful, but then Protoss already has the biggest amount of buttons to click - Forcefield, Blink, potentially Feedback / Storm.
Using Warp Prisms to evacuate your ground forces from the enemy base after a harrass will save the energy on the MSC for defense and I think that is another good part of the idea. Just try it before discarding it as useless.
Then clearly I'm not really understanding your point because Protoss players do incorporate drop play i their game. If a protoss drops sentries, stalkers, immortals or sentries they will almost almost take effort to save them. Zealots are the exception. They will warp in a bunch and just leave them to die. Weirdly enough I think a lot of the time Protoss players don't want the zealots to survive but to die cost effectively. Protoss doom drops are probably always going to be rare due to the effort needed to get warp prisms. Terrans already has medivacs for healing and Zerg always have like 20 overlords so its relatively easy to do large drops.
You could just give it a shot yourself and show us how good it is, rather than theory crafting something. There is now better way to prove something is viable than by doing it.
Except that would require him to actually play starcraft as opposed to just talk about it :p
On June 22 2013 01:21 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Enough with the 30 zealot story, anyone with a working brain knows that any race that get that kind of production will ROFLSTOMP anyone mineral or gas blocked, 5 base Zerg w/ 5 macro hatches will effing own you on the remax if you are stuck on two base production levels.
Not to mention, if they have 30 zealots warping into your main they have Prism Speed.
Which, you know, is the same as it's always been.
So this change literally doesn't effect it. At all.
On June 22 2013 01:21 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Enough with the 30 zealot story, anyone with a working brain knows that any race that get that kind of production will ROFLSTOMP anyone mineral or gas blocked, 5 base Zerg w/ 5 macro hatches will effing own you on the remax if you are stuck on two base production levels.
If you are losing to mass basic level units (zealot/zerling/marine) on remax... It means you didn't prepare for it!
30 rax, macro hatches or gateways need a huge area! You simply weren't scouting enough!
As I posted before, this change is what is needed to make scouting necessary instead of optional in WoL. Let's face aside from Nydus worms, in WoL there was no one unit that could vaporize a base's infrastructure.
One medivac of 4 stimmed marauders took forever to kill any building. Same goes for WoL prisms, you could literally finish building a turret in time to ward off the drop while some marines kited the zealots to death. The threat of drop ships needed to increase.
David let Terran have a taste now via afterburners and widow mine/hellbat drops... now Protoss get to be a pain in the ass in mid-game too along with Terran (hellbat and WM drops) and Zerg (muta)
except it takes a lot more for the terran to deal with the drop compared to all other form of harass (other than doom drop) You need to kite those marines while toss is simply mineral dumping and chargelots are almost always cost efficient in dropping. I can't remember how many times I have seen terran losing ghosts to chargelots runby because of the sheer survival ability of them
On June 22 2013 02:26 GhostOwl wrote: It makes no sense to me whatever that Terrans are the majority of the complainers here. If anything, Zergs have way harder time dealing with warp prisms...T's T1 unit can attack air, Zerg has.....slow queens? Turrets, vikings, marines, widow mines can all effectively shut down warp prism..Zerg has to rely on mutas (which means those mutas can't use the time to harrass the Protoss mineral line)
I guess we just found out that Zerg players on TL are much more open minded and accepting while Terran players on TL are much more confrontational and biased
Or your low knowledge of the TvP match-up doesn't allow you to understand why this change is bad for Terrans. The fact Marines can shoot air is like completely irrelevant; or maybe they also fly in your version of the game so they can chase the Prism parked in the air space near your bases?
EPT
