[Now live] New Patch - Warp Prism buff - Page 45

On June 23 2013 18:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:


Spoken like a true whiner who can't figure things out for themselves and has to wait for a pro to teach them how to do it.

If someone had the mechanics of automaton2000 yes I would agree with you, however nobody does and nobody will. If you spend time blinking stalkers, you are most likely compensating your macro, in which case it is pointless because macro is the highest priority element.

Knowing where to build turrets does not impede on any other elements on the game. If I had time I would create an article just like I did with the simcity one and spend time researching, however I won't be buying HotS because the current design of SC2 just doesn't sit well with me.

I am going to requote another thing I said


This is exactly what is happening, you need some pro to teach you how to do it because you are incapable of figuring things out on your own. You need everything to be spoon fed to you, its a pretty sad state to be in.



Let me guess, you think turrets need to be built on the edge of your base? No wonder you think it is "impossible". When you build a turret on the edge 50% of the coverage is completely wasted, remember prisms need to deploy over ground, they can't deploy units onto air space.

There will be specific sections in the main and natural which should have more than enough coverage to deal with drops.

The most likely positions will be near the middle of your main, and two covering the most critical spaces where the prism should be traveling. While the prism is playing Where's Wally to find a pocket of ground where it can actually deploy, its half dead and you have marines built from your barracks to finish it off and deal with the measly first warp in that will serve as a complete waste of resources and time for Protoss.

Although I'm not sure why I'm wasting time on a lost cause, its obvious that you are going to ask me to spoon feed you where to place these turrets, or wait for a pro to show you without learning on your own.

On June 23 2013 12:42 GhostOwl wrote:


Wut? Wat did I just read?

Protoss is the least supply-effective race or a Roach-based Zerg army.

On June 23 2013 19:56 Sissors wrote:

Well at least you give some information how every terran player is doing it horribly wrong, but it is still pretty much: NANANANANANA I KNOW BETTER AND I WONT TELL YOU BECAUSE I WONT SPOON FEED YOU YOU SHOULD L2P NOOB AND NANANANA I AM BETTER.

That seems to be a fairly accurate summary of your posts.

Anyway regarding placing a turret in the middle of your base. Yeah can sometimes be useful. But not nearly as much as what you like to think, and certainly not one of the first places to put one. You seem to enormously overestimate the range of a turret. One in the middle of your base will never cover the edges.

Aditionally it is quite ridiculous to claim turrets at the edge waste 50% of their coverage completely. Remember the goal is to kill the prism before you have an army in your base. So by far the best situation is when the prism is shot down before it can deploy an army. Even if the turret has as much range as you think it has, it would still mean the prism can easily get to your base and drop everything off, probably even a round of warpins, since it is only firing at the very edge of its range. While if you put it on the edge of your base the prism first has to fly through a load of missiles from the turret.

Of course in the beginning you don't have resources to put a turret ring around your edge. And with all the all-ins of toss there are more important locations: Your mineral line, which has a three fold usage: It holds of possible oracle/phoenix play, they detect DTs, keeping your mineral line alive (by far the most important against early DTs, losing two add-ons isnt a big deal, having your mineral line gone is), and they make sure a warp prism can't directly drop zealots in your mineral line. If you have a turret in the center it won't cover your mineral line generally. Even if it does, it won't even get through its shields.

Next important location is the entrance to your natural, to detect DTs and also nice to make sure there isn't an observer above your army.

Anyway before you continue your tirades I would advice you to really have a look at missile turret range. One in the center of your base simply won't do anything besides covering your central buildings from direct warp-ins right on top of them. And that is early-mid game the last thing I would be worried about.

On June 23 2013 20:17 Xequecal wrote:


No, Protoss is the most supply-effective race. A stalker beats a roach, and they're both 2 supply. Sure the stalker costs more, but Protoss is more supply-effective, as in X supply of Protoss units is almost always superior to X supply of units from the other two races.

Protoss units are also generally not cost-effective. An immortal loses to 4 roaches or 3 marauders despite being the supposed hard counter to these units and costing about the same amount. However, the immortal is only 4 supply and 4 roaches/3 marauders are 8 and 6 supply. Most Protoss units are like this. I'm pretty sure even a colossus loses to 14 marines, but it beats an equal-supply 6 marines stupidly easily.

Terran is the opposite. Marines are incredibly cheap for their damage output, but they still cost 1 supply each. A stalker beats 2 marines easily, hell so does a roach. Most Terran units are like this. The marauder is 100/25 for 2 supply. Terran has medivacs which basically increase the cost effectiveness of all their units, but eat up supply to do so. The whole race is balanced around this concept. That's why ghosts had to be nerfed repeatedly in WoL and why hellbats are getting nerfed now, they both went against this concept - they were overcosted units that were very supply-effective, going against the whole race philosophy. It's also why strategies like 1/1/1 were so ridiculous, if Terran can keep the economy low and keep the supply cap from being a factor, they will completely dominate the opponent with their far more cost-effective units.

Sigh, the bolded part shows you didn't understand a single thing I said in the last 3 posts. No I don't remember, nor ever did, because that has never been the goal of turret usage. Its only used that way because turrets in SC2 have ridiculous dps and people think you have to kill air units with them.

I never said I was better, just learn to think for yourself instead of whining until a pro shows you how its done.

No, Protoss is the most supply-effective race. A stalker beats a roach, and they're both 2 supply. Sure the stalker costs more, but Protoss is more supply-effective, as in X supply of Protoss units is almost always superior to X supply of units from the other two races.

Protoss units are also generally not cost-effective. An immortal loses to 4 roaches or 3 marauders despite being the supposed hard counter to these units and costing about the same amount. However, the immortal is only 4 supply and 4 roaches/3 marauders are 8 and 6 supply. Most Protoss units are like this. I'm pretty sure even a colossus loses to 14 marines, but it beats an equal-supply 6 marines stupidly easily.

Terran is the opposite. Marines are incredibly cheap for their damage output, but they still cost 1 supply each. A stalker beats 2 marines easily, hell so does a roach. Most Terran units are like this. The marauder is 100/25 for 2 supply. Terran has medivacs which basically increase the cost effectiveness of all their units, but eat up supply to do so. The whole race is balanced around this concept. That's why ghosts had to be nerfed repeatedly in WoL and why hellbats are getting nerfed now, they both went against this concept - they were overcosted units that were very supply-effective, going against the whole race philosophy. It's also why strategies like 1/1/1 were so ridiculous, if Terran can keep the economy low and keep the supply cap from being a factor, they will completely dominate the opponent with their far more cost-effective units.

On June 23 2013 22:50 Sissors wrote:

And again your post is empty of any kind of useful content. You are only very agressive against terrans that we use turrets wrong, but refuse to say how we use them wrong and how we should use them instead. If we don't use them to kill/deny air units (that is effectively the same, if they can't kill air units, they also can't deny their presence in an area; you cannot deny warp prism play by placing a turret in the middle of your base and hoping the protoss is as ill informed as you are regarding its range. He will just use the prism outside turret range, or skims to the edge of it and tanks the damage), why on earth would we make them? Sure one in the front for detection, but besides that it would be fairly useless to make them.

Anyway until you actually get to a higher level than your: LALALLALAA YOU USING THEM WRONG NOOB, level, I guess this is fairly pointless. And it is pretty safe to assume you are just purely trolling and don't actually have a point to make.

On June 23 2013 22:49 Cloak wrote:


Cost efficiency is almost always preferable, because supply efficiency only matters if you're maxed, otherwise it's just the hidden cost of more supply needing to be built. Cost efficiency lets you dictate the game all the way until that 200/200. What's worse is that Z and T economies outpace P economy by a decent margin in a default macro game, further exasperating the disparity. That's where Protoss spells come in that need to entirely walloff landscape to make things possible.

On June 24 2013 01:22 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:


Let me give you a hit. Play more tower ambush games, there are literally tons of them on Facebook,
F* it, let me spell it out for you.

Optimise the turret's range, put it "out" there way BEFORE THE BASE NOT INSIDE.
The inside of the base is for the marine squad to deal with (stim-kite-etc).

On June 24 2013 01:22 Nimix wrote:
Funny how every protoss post assumes that late game is equal and delaying production to build 2/3 turrets by base isn't a big deal for terrans. You should really play from the other side to understand, I don't know. The prism buff isn't THAT big of a deal now that they reduced the speed quite a lot (compared to the ridiculousness of the test map), but it's still important because it's now a permanent threat and you can't deal with it once and for all, and will be a problem as you need all your supply to attack and pressure protoss.
Once again you can't compare what protoss needs to defend and what terran needs to defend, as their goal in the game is completely different in standard scenarios.

On June 24 2013 01:25 Rabiator wrote:

Exactly right ... supply efficiency is dwarfed by the cost efficiency and the remake efficiency and Zerg blows both other races out of the water with both.

The game isnt really about the units but more about your economy and production capability and if you can hurt those of your opponent you have a clear advantage to win the game. A "slower" game like Broodwar is about supply efficiency, because producing units takes a while, but in SC2 it is ridiculously easy to reach that 200 supply limit.


That should be a total no brainer IMO. You simply put turrets at the edge of your (main) base to stop the Medivacs or Warp Prisms from even getting their chance to unload stuff or warp in.

I think Hyun did that really well to counter early Phoenix' from MC today in the Homestory cup by placing a Spore Crawler at both ends of all his mineral lines. That shut the harrass down completely. Being a miser and only putting one of them in the middle of the mineral line does nothing except make it a little harder to harrass.

Let me guess, you think turrets need to be built on the edge of your base? No wonder you think it is "impossible". When you build a turret on the edge 50% of the coverage is completely wasted, remember prisms need to deploy over ground, they can't deploy units onto air space.

On June 24 2013 03:54 InVerno wrote:
Well...45pages of discussion mixed with whine, for the most irrilevant balance patch ever seen in sc2.. there must be some sort of achievement for who have read it all?

On June 24 2013 02:15 Sissors wrote:

Sadly I have just been told by them I (and every Terran player) is a complete retard for placing turrets at the edge of your main base, and instead you should place them in the center of your base.

But now apparently we aren't supposed to put them at the edge, so I guess he means literally placing a turret outside your main base. Why on earth you would possibly want to do that is a mystery to me. It just gives the protoss free turret kills. Even if the toss would go right over the turret that for some reason he didn't kill yet, a warp prism easily survives that. Sure it gives vision, but there are cheaper options for vision.

But anyway placing turrets early in the game outside your base is so idiotic that the only logical explanation is that I fell for a troll


Sadly If we have to believe the trolls here that also makes him a horrible player, since you should place one turret/spore in the center of your base, and the rest outside your base. (Sure bit harder for zerg, not impossible though).


Edit: See:

So according to them you are wrong that you say turrets should be placed at the edge. (Where 'wrong' is the very mild version of bringing it).

On June 24 2013 01:40 hummingbird23 wrote:
A warp prism that runs into turret range, deploys and warps in any units is effectively a one use warpprism. A missile turret does 28 DPS and kills a prism in ~7 secs. Warp in takes 5 secs. Each turret zones out warpins in a diameter of 14.

Without warpins, protoss drops are severely limited. 4 zealots are a laughable threat. The really dangerous part of warpprism drops is the clown-car nature, you don't know how much is going to appear (although one can estimate a max with relative certainty).

On June 24 2013 00:28 hummingbird23 wrote:
The turret isn't to blow up the prism as soon as it sees it. The turret zones out the prism from warping in units. Protoss is forced to keep a handful of stalkers in base (costing 125/50, mind you) or lose the game by bleeding out to medivac drops that deal 80DPS or hellbat havoc. Being able to shut down all air and drop harass (yes, even Oracles that cost 150/150 and a lousy deadend techroute) with 2-3 turrets and a handful of marines is a luxury that only Terrans have, and they're complaining that they can't catch a fleeing warp prism without having to stim to do so. What is this nonsense?

And before the issue of dead space comes up, Terrans can produce a single viking without having to invest anything extra, not even addon time, while protoss is helpless to clear dead space because the gas investment is too high during the colossus/storm teching phase of the early midgame.

On June 23 2013 18:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Let me guess, you think turrets need to be built on the edge of your base? No wonder you think it is "impossible". When you build a turret on the edge 50% of the coverage is completely wasted, remember prisms need to deploy over ground, they can't deploy units onto air space.

There will be specific sections in the main and natural which should have more than enough coverage to deal with drops.

The most likely positions will be near the middle of your main, and two covering the most critical spaces where the prism should be traveling. While the prism is playing Where's Wally to find a pocket of ground where it can actually deploy, its half dead and you have marines built from your barracks to finish it off and deal with the measly first warp in that will serve as a complete waste of resources and time for Protoss.

Although I'm not sure why I'm wasting time on a lost cause, its obvious that you are going to ask me to spoon feed you where to place these turrets, or wait for a pro to show you without learning on your own.