|
On June 20 2013 23:08 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 22:47 buckKeefe wrote:On June 20 2013 21:38 Big J wrote:On June 20 2013 21:23 buckKeefe wrote:On June 20 2013 21:15 Big J wrote:On June 20 2013 21:05 buckKeefe wrote:
sure, protoss *can* get speed late game; right now, they basically never do in my experience. theres a long history of patches increasing usage of strategies purely by calling attention to them (see the last time the WP got buffed as a prime example - although that time i think it was for the best). its not exactly free to build a turret ring around your 4-5 bases They added 60shields. Go ahead and recommend a buff to the medivac or the overlord by 60hitpoints (which isn't even as good as 60shields most of the time). And then never come back to TL, because people will hunt you. i dont understand. that particular buff made sense at the time bc WP were very fragile and hardly used at all. a similar buff to T/Z obviously wouldnt make sense. what is your point? you said that the first WP buff increased the WP usage because it called attention to the unit. Now you say it was a needed buff because it was overly fragile. (and therefore the usage increased because the unit became useful) So which one was it? ...both? those are not mutually exclusive. stronger unit + more attention -> more use Of course you get attention by buffing a unit. EVERY buff works like that, so the first warp prism buff was surely NOT a prime example. It was just a regular -needed- buff. btw it's also: stronger unit --> more use more attention --> more use So by measuring the usage, we can't say whether it was mostly a promotion or a buff. However by checking what the buff did (+30% hitpoints!!!!!), we can clearly see that it was first and foremost the first kind of stuff. + Show Spoiler +The prime example for a buff promoting something would be the Protoss upgrade buff, which was unsignificant (something like 200 resources cheaper over a duration of 15-20mins) and being done after Creator (and Genius) destroyed Terrans with double forges. It was basically like blizzard saying "hey protoss, we know you have bad winrates right now. But there is this strategy out there that you really should try because it seems to work fantastically."
sure, i see what youre getting at and i dont disagree; i should have worded my point more carefully, and youre right that the ups are a better example. i merely mean to say that even if the stats buff is not huge in its late game influence (since speed couldve been researched anyway) it is likely to become much more trendy to use the WP in that situation, which makes me really worried for the viability of mech play (which is still rarely seen and virtually unheardof on the pro level, despite the hots buffs to it) given how immobile it is. even now, in the few situations where toss have used mid-late (lets say 14+ minute) WP harass, i find it very hard to defend without losing a bunch of shit in my base; post-buff it will not only be stronger, but i believe much more common as well, and that bums me out. not saying it is 'totally imba' or anything like that, just that its gonna be very frustrating in a way that speedvacs arent (i admit that they must be quite frustrating in their only right, esp in the 7-12 minute kind of timeframe, and i wouldnt be terribly upset if they got nerfed through some kind of speed/health tradeoff similar to stim)
On June 20 2013 22:51 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 22:47 buckKeefe wrote:On June 20 2013 21:38 Big J wrote:On June 20 2013 21:23 buckKeefe wrote:On June 20 2013 21:15 Big J wrote:On June 20 2013 21:05 buckKeefe wrote:
sure, protoss *can* get speed late game; right now, they basically never do in my experience. theres a long history of patches increasing usage of strategies purely by calling attention to them (see the last time the WP got buffed as a prime example - although that time i think it was for the best). its not exactly free to build a turret ring around your 4-5 bases They added 60shields. Go ahead and recommend a buff to the medivac or the overlord by 60hitpoints (which isn't even as good as 60shields most of the time). And then never come back to TL, because people will hunt you. i dont understand. that particular buff made sense at the time bc WP were very fragile and hardly used at all. a similar buff to T/Z obviously wouldnt make sense. what is your point? you said that the first WP buff increased the WP usage because it called attention to the unit. Now you say it was a needed buff because it was overly fragile. (and therefore the usage increased because the unit became useful) So which one was it? ...both? those are not mutually exclusive. stronger unit + more attention -> more use The nick name for the WP before the 60 shield buff was "The paper plane". I remember watching Nony trying to do immortal drops back then and the WP was being chased off by 2 marines. Or MC losing 4 high templar because a couple vikings looked at the WP for half a second.
i dont remember those particular games, but at the time i think i couldve counted the number of WPs i had seen in my own games on 1 hand -- the stats buff obviously made the harass more effective, and i think it was completely justified, but i think the WP could have been somewhat more effective at non-pro levels beforehand if people had experimented with it more, and even a much more modest buff probably wouldve had the effect of increasing that usage. then again, during that period i was pretty low on the ladder, so maybe my perception of that is skewed
|
On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines?
The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before
|
On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before
Forcefields, time warps, storms, splitting templar, blinking stalkers to focus fire Vikings, pulling back zealots that are getting kited. Protoss doesn't 1A. Please stop thinking we do.
|
On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before
I like how simply you view the game. Terran's only strength is mobility. Not superior range, cost-effective DPS, cost-effective drops/harassment, insane base defense, best low-tier/low-gas units, best econ-per-base, cheapest upgrades, or anything like that. The ONLY thing Terran has going for them is mobility... Man, how does Terran ever win a fight straight up?
|
On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before
Isn't the mobility more the Zergs advantage?
And why the fuck are people keep saying that Protoss is a 1a race?
I don't get that, since protoss has alot more casting abilities than, lets say zerg (and i don't wanna say that zerg doesn't require micro). You have to cast guardian shielf, FF, storm, micro your colossi, blink your stalkers,...
Does that sound like 1a to you? If yes, you're just ignorant.
Come on, we're not in the beta of WoL anymore.
And how exactly does a warp prism speed buff give the race a strong mobility?
You're logic on this topic is just silly and you have such a tunnel vision.
|
On June 20 2013 23:37 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before I like how simply you view the game. Terran's only strength is mobility. Not superior range, cost-effective DPS, cost-effective drops/harassment, insane base defense, best low-tier/low-gas units, best econ-per-base, cheapest upgrades, or anything like that. The ONLY thing Terran has going for them is mobility... Man, how does Terran ever win a fight straight up?
By getting ahead in tech/econ through their superior mobility.
|
On June 20 2013 23:37 syno wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before Isn't the mobility more the Zergs advantage? And why the fuck are people keep saying that Protoss is a 1a race? I don't get that, since protoss has alot more casting abilities than, lets say zerg (and i don't wanna say that zerg doesn't require micro). You have to cast guardian shielf, FF, storm, micro your colossi, blink your stalkers,... Does that sound like 1a to you? If yes, you're just ignorant. Come on, we're not in the beta of WoL anymore. And how exactly does a warp prism speed buff give the race a strong mobility? You're logic on this topic is just silly and you have such a tunnel vision.
I thought each race was mobile depending on what units they decided to build. Or is that just me.
|
On June 20 2013 23:40 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:37 Jermstuddog wrote:On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before I like how simply you view the game. Terran's only strength is mobility. Not superior range, cost-effective DPS, cost-effective drops/harassment, insane base defense, best low-tier/low-gas units, best econ-per-base, cheapest upgrades, or anything like that. The ONLY thing Terran has going for them is mobility... Man, how does Terran ever win a fight straight up? By getting ahead in tech/econ through their superior mobility.
Yeah, because Terran has never won a single game ever by pushing the front. That's not even a concern when facing Terrans is it?
|
On June 20 2013 23:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:37 syno wrote:On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before Isn't the mobility more the Zergs advantage? And why the fuck are people keep saying that Protoss is a 1a race? I don't get that, since protoss has alot more casting abilities than, lets say zerg (and i don't wanna say that zerg doesn't require micro). You have to cast guardian shielf, FF, storm, micro your colossi, blink your stalkers,... Does that sound like 1a to you? If yes, you're just ignorant. Come on, we're not in the beta of WoL anymore. And how exactly does a warp prism speed buff give the race a strong mobility? You're logic on this topic is just silly and you have such a tunnel vision. I thought each race was mobile depending on what units they decided to build. Or is that just me.
Obviously, i was just adapting to his logic.
|
On June 20 2013 06:55 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 06:54 Akusta wrote:
Prisms move faster than vikings. This is just silly. Yeah. Can't wait to have Zealots 24/7 rampaging my base because I can't finish a Prism with a Viking...
Its not like Medivac is not faster then phenix :D
|
On June 20 2013 23:42 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:40 Bagi wrote:On June 20 2013 23:37 Jermstuddog wrote:On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before I like how simply you view the game. Terran's only strength is mobility. Not superior range, cost-effective DPS, cost-effective drops/harassment, insane base defense, best low-tier/low-gas units, best econ-per-base, cheapest upgrades, or anything like that. The ONLY thing Terran has going for them is mobility... Man, how does Terran ever win a fight straight up? By getting ahead in tech/econ through their superior mobility. Yeah, because Terran has never won a single game ever by pushing the front. That's not even a concern when facing Terrans is it?
Honestly I have no idea what you are even arguing about. The guy who said terran relies on their mobility is absolutely correct, and you start arguing about semantics and how its not their ONLY ADVANTAGE.
No shit its not their only advantage, but its still a much more prominent part of any good terrans gameplay. Saying that protoss harass options should be compared to that of bio terrans is absolute delusion.
|
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On June 20 2013 23:37 syno wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before Isn't the mobility more the Zergs advantage? And why the fuck are people keep saying that Protoss is a 1a race? I don't get that, since protoss has alot more casting abilities than, lets say zerg (and i don't wanna say that zerg doesn't require micro). You have to cast guardian shielf, FF, storm, micro your colossi, blink your stalkers,... Does that sound like 1a to you? If yes, you're just ignorant. Come on, we're not in the beta of WoL anymore. And how exactly does a warp prism speed buff give the race a strong mobility? You're logic on this topic is just silly and you have such a tunnel vision.
Tbh I've never had a problem with any of the micro you mentioned whenever I've tried playing toss.
|
On June 20 2013 23:51 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:37 syno wrote:On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before Isn't the mobility more the Zergs advantage? And why the fuck are people keep saying that Protoss is a 1a race? I don't get that, since protoss has alot more casting abilities than, lets say zerg (and i don't wanna say that zerg doesn't require micro). You have to cast guardian shielf, FF, storm, micro your colossi, blink your stalkers,... Does that sound like 1a to you? If yes, you're just ignorant. Come on, we're not in the beta of WoL anymore. And how exactly does a warp prism speed buff give the race a strong mobility? You're logic on this topic is just silly and you have such a tunnel vision. Tbh I've never had a problem with any of the micro you mentioned whenever I've tried playing toss.
That still makes no difference at all, it's still not 1A, what is your point?
|
On June 20 2013 23:53 syno wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:51 Targe wrote:On June 20 2013 23:37 syno wrote:On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before Isn't the mobility more the Zergs advantage? And why the fuck are people keep saying that Protoss is a 1a race? I don't get that, since protoss has alot more casting abilities than, lets say zerg (and i don't wanna say that zerg doesn't require micro). You have to cast guardian shielf, FF, storm, micro your colossi, blink your stalkers,... Does that sound like 1a to you? If yes, you're just ignorant. Come on, we're not in the beta of WoL anymore. And how exactly does a warp prism speed buff give the race a strong mobility? You're logic on this topic is just silly and you have such a tunnel vision. Tbh I've never had a problem with any of the micro you mentioned whenever I've tried playing toss. That still makes no difference at all, it's still not 1A, what is your point?
Stop getting butthurt over a letter and a number, obviously he just meant that protoss is strongest in a straight up engagement.
|
This thread was reduced to race bashing and balance qq on page one. There is only one rational response to this and it is to + Show Spoiler +actually wait and see what happens after this change has been in the game a while
But hey, don't ever change TL.
|
On June 20 2013 23:54 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:53 syno wrote:On June 20 2013 23:51 Targe wrote:On June 20 2013 23:37 syno wrote:On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before Isn't the mobility more the Zergs advantage? And why the fuck are people keep saying that Protoss is a 1a race? I don't get that, since protoss has alot more casting abilities than, lets say zerg (and i don't wanna say that zerg doesn't require micro). You have to cast guardian shielf, FF, storm, micro your colossi, blink your stalkers,... Does that sound like 1a to you? If yes, you're just ignorant. Come on, we're not in the beta of WoL anymore. And how exactly does a warp prism speed buff give the race a strong mobility? You're logic on this topic is just silly and you have such a tunnel vision. Tbh I've never had a problem with any of the micro you mentioned whenever I've tried playing toss. That still makes no difference at all, it's still not 1A, what is your point? Stop getting butthurt over a letter and a number, obviously he just meant that protoss is strongest in a straight up engagement.
Who is butthurt?
I don't even play Protoss anymore, but that people STILL say it's a 1a race amazes me.
|
|
|
On June 20 2013 23:55 HardlyNever wrote:This thread was reduced to race bashing and balance qq on page one. There is only one rational response to this and it is to + Show Spoiler +actually wait and see what happens after this change has been in the game a while . But hey, don't ever change TL.
Yeah this is like the 5th or 6th time its been mentioned. Just please keep the whine out of my lr threads 
|
On June 20 2013 23:54 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:53 syno wrote:On June 20 2013 23:51 Targe wrote:On June 20 2013 23:37 syno wrote:On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before Isn't the mobility more the Zergs advantage? And why the fuck are people keep saying that Protoss is a 1a race? I don't get that, since protoss has alot more casting abilities than, lets say zerg (and i don't wanna say that zerg doesn't require micro). You have to cast guardian shielf, FF, storm, micro your colossi, blink your stalkers,... Does that sound like 1a to you? If yes, you're just ignorant. Come on, we're not in the beta of WoL anymore. And how exactly does a warp prism speed buff give the race a strong mobility? You're logic on this topic is just silly and you have such a tunnel vision. Tbh I've never had a problem with any of the micro you mentioned whenever I've tried playing toss. That still makes no difference at all, it's still not 1A, what is your point? Stop getting butthurt over a letter and a number, obviously he just meant that protoss is strongest in a straight up engagement.
They can be. They also can not bee if they are caught out of position, miss storms or do not have a good comp to deal with the terran army. Its isn't that cut and dry.
|
On June 20 2013 23:37 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:27 fighter2_40 wrote:On June 20 2013 21:01 GhostOwl wrote:
Okay, for all the Terran players whining, how about this?
Warp Prism gets medivac boost skill, and Medivac loses the skill. In return, Medivac gain the tiny speed boost granted by this patch.
See what Protoss and Zerg players have to deal with? Or are you going to keep complaining until Zealots and Zerglings each do only 1 damage to marines? The point is each race has its advantages. Terran bio has mobility, toss has very strong 1a and zeros have Econ. Give toss strong mobility as well and it just doesn't sit right. Though I don't think this patch does that much because unless they also have a speed upgrade late game that makes them even faster than before I like how simply you view the game. Terran's only strength is mobility. Not superior range, cost-effective DPS, cost-effective drops/harassment, insane base defense, best low-tier/low-gas units, best econ-per-base, cheapest upgrades, or anything like that. The ONLY thing Terran has going for them is mobility... Man, how does Terran ever win a fight straight up?
not that i wanna comment on balance at all here but terran does not have good base defence, its actually horrible compared to what you can do with toss and zerg static defense. if terran got cannons instead of PF the game would be completely broken.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
