EPTA terran drop can dash into your base, kill all of your workers (stim marines/hellbats) or key structures (marauders) in a matter of seconds even in the presence of defense structures/units and escape without any losses. It is this entire combination that makes drops powerful, a little speed will do nothing for Protoss macro games but spare them 200/200.
[Now live] New Patch - Warp Prism buff - Page 21
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
A terran drop can dash into your base, kill all of your workers (stim marines/hellbats) or key structures (marauders) in a matter of seconds even in the presence of defense structures/units and escape without any losses. It is this entire combination that makes drops powerful, a little speed will do nothing for Protoss macro games but spare them 200/200. | ||
|
TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On June 20 2013 19:35 GhostOwl wrote: 1. It's not even that big of a buff....some people dare call it the "new permanent speedvacs" now.. lol their new speed still comes NOTHING close to speedvac speed 2. The amount of whining in this thread is horrendous, and most are coming from T players instead of Z. Why? Z has a much harder time blocking warp prism...T's have a tier 1 unit that can kill Warp Prism, lings and queens can't really. Is this re-inforcing my beliefs that T players are more balance-whiny and super stubborn in general? There's literally like 1 zerg player complaining for every 10 terran players complaining on this thread.. 3. Protoss has been suffering at the very top...and THAT's where balance needs to be fixed for, not for masters or the like. This buff is not that big people, and it is definitely warranted. If you want balance whine, please do it for next month when hellbats, speedvacs, widow mines, marines all get nerfed at the same time. 1: It's totally unnessecary, since Warp Prisms are strong enough right now. 2: when was the last time you saw a marine kill a warp prism? I can't remember seeing it. 3: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_WCS_Season_2_Korea_OSL/Premier | ||
|
AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On June 20 2013 19:37 Velocirapture wrote: The problem with protoss drops, in my experience, is that they have to be all-in unless you are WAY ahead. Protoss gateway units are terrible at killing buildings and even worse at killing workers so what is your drop doing in their base? Hoping they don't have the presence of mind to respond? A terran drop can dash into your base, kill all of your workers (stim marines/hellbats) or key structures (marauders) in a matter of seconds even in the presence of defense structures/units and escape without any losses. It is this entire combination that makes drops powerful, a little speed will do nothing for Protoss macro games but spare them 200/200. Yep, I just see it being used in more all-ins. As if they don't have enough of those already  | ||
|
TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 20 2013 19:37 Velocirapture wrote: The problem with protoss drops, in my experience, is that they have to be all-in unless you are WAY ahead. Protoss gateway units are terrible at killing buildings and even worse at killing workers so what is your drop doing in their base? Hoping they don't have the presence of mind to respond? Or saturating Terran's attention, which is easy since it's the most demanding race in this domain? There's a reason you see even Code S Terrans losing entire mineral lines or even OCs to Zealots raids in autopilot. | ||
|
marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 20 2013 19:24 TeeTS wrote: And we totally forget, that Protoss and Zerg have much better tools (MSC, blink stalker, cannons on the protoss side/ queens, spinecrawler, much faster basic speed on units on the zerg side) to defend drop harass than terran, do we? Huh? Turrets are by far the best anti-air static defence in the game. Or consider where Protoss has to leave say 4 stalkers in his base (often more) in case of Terran drops. 4 stalkers is like the cost-equivalent of 16 marines. Plus remember that until charge, zealots are slow and melee - scvs can run away. Compared to the stimmed range/speed of marines. Even with charge, each zealot can only get one hit off on an SCV if they're running away... In any case, race A != B != C as mentioned several times in the thread. In general this thread is pretty unbelievably in the amount of whining over a what, a 0.4 speed increase on a non-combat unit? It's a nice little buff for Protoss, and when the alternative is making combat units stronger/faster, the overreaction (mostly from Terrans for some reason?) is astonishing. | ||
|
Swift118
United Kingdom335 Posts
| ||
|
Douillos
France3195 Posts
- It gives a potent way to harass later on in the game (and I fuckin love warp prisms!) - Toss won't bitch about speedvacs anymore. Terrans whining since 2010, nothing new there... | ||
|
Maasked
United States567 Posts
But whatever. I dont really like the change because it doesnt help with much. The only reason I would get a warp prism at a decently early time in the game is to all in. So it doesnt really affect me too much, and it does make Allins a bit stronger but overall I would much rather have an actual unit buffed, no idea what unit being buffed wouldnt break the game, though. | ||
|
Oddball28
Denmark2121 Posts
| ||
|
Douillos
France3195 Posts
On June 20 2013 19:58 Maasked wrote: I think a unit should have been buffed. Like a ground unit or something. not WP. But whatever. I dont really like the change because it doesnt help with much. the only reason to get a WP earlygame is to allin with how I play. It might be possible to get a 3rd off a warp prism now <3 Edit: just in case sarcasm inside. | ||
|
AmericanUmlaut
Germany2594 Posts
On June 20 2013 19:51 TheDwf wrote: Or saturating Terran's attention, which is easy since it's the most demanding race in this domain? There's a reason you see even Code S Terrans losing entire mineral lines or even OCs to Zealots raids in autopilot. This is the correct answer. Even at lower levels you can do this to devastating effect: Park an Observer where you can see their army move out. They move, you drop a couple Zealots in their main and warp a few more at another base, then you just ignore the Zealots. The issue isn't that they "don't have the presence of mind to respond", it's that their units are out of position due to their attack, and they either have to delay their attack to deal with the drop, ignore it, or attempt to both attack and defend at the same time, which requires vastly more skill than it takes to do the drop. The argument that this upgrade is going to result in a big upswing in all-ins doesn't make any sense to me. The only all-in that would be impacted at all is the one where you drop a Sentry at the top of a ramp and then clear out a Zerg's main, which is a huge coin-flip that relies on the Zerg being out of position and not noticing what's happening. I don't see that becoming significantly more common at a high level. Other all-ins that incorporate a WP use it to reinforce, in which case it's generally kept back from the main fight to avoid being sniped, and its speed isn't an issue at all. One thing that I think hasn't been addressed is that this is an interesting buff to HT play, since keeping HTs in a WP before you get speed out is now a lot more useful than it was when the WP was slower. | ||
|
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 20 2013 20:00 Douillos wrote: It might be possible to get a 3rd off a warp prism now <3 Edit: just in case sarcasm inside. Actually that could have been a serious remark. If you're good with your micro, 2 stalkers + warpprism kill an infinite amount of non-stim marines now, and you can also harass with it :p | ||
|
Douillos
France3195 Posts
On June 20 2013 20:03 ZenithM wrote: Actually that could have been a serious remark. If you're good with your micro, 2 stalkers + warpprism kill an infinite amount of non-stim marines now, and you can also harass with it :p Now imagine with 2 Warp prisms ))) | ||
|
Douillos
France3195 Posts
| ||
|
Big G
Italy835 Posts
On June 20 2013 19:39 TeeTS wrote: 2: when was the last time you saw a marine kill a warp prism? I can't remember seeing it. one minute ago, sOs vs Maru | ||
|
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 20 2013 19:29 Qikz wrote: You have the best static defense in the game. You should be fine. ^^ he said ZvP. not TvP ;-) | ||
|
TheDwf
France19747 Posts
Keeping your Warp Prism idle in Phase Mode in your opponent's base certainly helps Marines to kill it. | ||
|
Qikz
United Kingdom12040 Posts
Zerg static defense is by far the best. They have one that hits air and one that does good damage to ground and they're moveable. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 20 2013 19:51 TheDwf wrote: Or saturating Terran's attention, which is easy since it's the most demanding race in this domain? There's a reason you see even Code S Terrans losing entire mineral lines or even OCs to Zealots raids in autopilot. The plight of the terran. The sorrow we feel for their saturated attention and inability to save the workers from non-aoe based melee units. | ||
|
TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 20 2013 20:16 Plansix wrote: The plight of the terran. The sorrow we feel for their saturated attention and inability to save the workers from non-aoe based melee units. Your cheap irony changes nothing to the truth ot the statement. | ||
| ||
