EPTCall to Action: June 14 Balance Testing - Page 13
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Sircoolguy
United States81 Posts
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eXdeath
France66 Posts
Hellbats :Yes. I'd rather have them not being healed.. but the blue flame change is nice (hope they will also make the flame look blue when upgraded now  )Banshee : Why not, but this seems too much. I'd rather have the tank buffed a bit though (single target bonus vs armored) edit : Sircoolguy> I think because if you have a doubt, going stargate delays splash damage too much, and going templars you don't have detection ; so robo would be the go to tech path in order to have a chance against both type of play. | ||
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headnut
Belgium58 Posts
these hellbat changes bring with: 1. this nerf will change nothing about early hellbat drops, hellbats will need 1 shot more to kill a worker, but that doesnt really change the core of the problem: hellbats never die 2. mech play will be nerfed super hard early game for no reason. in wol mech play was lacking damage and a beefy unit. the hellbat is this unit. with nerfed damage before you have the upgrade you cant really be aggressive or defend hard all ins. 3. bio play will recieve direct nerfs by this change. because you will have hellbats and mines in smaller numbers or later, since u need to research 2 upgrades and more techlabs/dont have 2 reactors/have 1 techlab and the upgrades will take super long. 4. this change will lead to more passive gameplay because of 3. and this will lead to less aggressive and dynamic gameplay/takes away a bit from terrans ability to stop the enemy from doing whatever he wants the best way of nerfing would be to take away the hellbats bio tag, because its the only way to address the drops. and this is the only thing blizzard wanted to address in the first place. im suprised blizzard doesnt realize that and 90% here dont realize that too | ||
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murphs
Ireland418 Posts
The only concern I have is that the warp prism speed upgrade is not worth the investment anymore. Also Oracles are appearing less and less, I think that unit is borderline useless and needs a serious look at next. | ||
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
On June 15 2013 07:45 ZenithM wrote: Huh, he's actually right. You can assume that the general level of play in TL is much higher than any other community. There were polls some time ago where like 50% were at least diamond (and 20% master). It probably doesn't hold anymore but it's actually true that there are a lot of diamond+ players around. 1). How can you assume that? 2). Polls from people. Because majority of people were so 'sincere' about their level? Until provided actual data (which would be b.net attached to TL.net account or other logical alternatives) I won't listen to any of these 'assumes' because to me they look like 'my community is the best community' mindset. Till that point, I will think that player level is distributed by Gaussian distribution in TL (which is a logical thing to do), with gold leaguers being the majority here. There could be so data mismatches in the extremes of distribution (with low bronze players being not interested in scene and more professional players coming to TL due to insightful and fast news) but it should not be a noticeable factor when judging the majority's level in TL. | ||
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Brett
Australia3822 Posts
On June 15 2013 07:49 Vindicare605 wrote: Perhaps because Banshees are NEVER used in the current meta. Perhaps because Oracle detection, Mothership Core, and Spawning Pool Spore Crawlers directly impacted the usefulness of Banshee builds while nothing up till now was given to them to make them more effective. Perhaps they aren't idiots. Just perhaps. Even if I accept what you say about banshees not being used, so fucking what? This is not the sort of game to be bringing in little changes every few months because something has fallen out of favour in the current meta. I don't want SC to become another volatile, FOTM shitfest that swings around every time Blizzard decides to make a change to try and appease people with vested interests (like so many other competitive games out there). | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:16 Huragius wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On June 15 2013 07:45 ZenithM wrote: Huh, he's actually right. You can assume that the general level of play in TL is much higher than any other community. There were polls some time ago where like 50% were at least diamond (and 20% master). It probably doesn't hold anymore but it's actually true that there are a lot of diamond+ players around. 1). How can you assume that? 2). Polls from people. Because majority of people were so 'sincere' about their level? Until provided actual data (which would be b.net attached to TL.net account or other logical alternatives) I won't listen to any of these 'assumes' because to me they look like 'my community is the best community' mindset. Till that point, I will think that player level is distributed by Gaussian distribution in TL (which is a logical thing to do), with gold leaguers being the majority here. There could be so data mismatches in the extremes of distribution (with low bronze players being not interested in scene and more professional players coming to TL due to insightful and fast news) but it should not be a noticeable factor when judging the majority's level in TL. Lol, think what you want then. So I can assume you're gold, that's what you're saying? Huehuehue. | ||
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headnut
Belgium58 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:15 murphs wrote: It's a shame stupidity isn't a bannable offence because anyone who thinks any of the proposed changes will break the game would be perma-banned. Even reddit has a more rational view of this patch. The only concern I have is that the warp prism speed upgrade is not worth the investment anymore. Also Oracles are appearing less and less, I think that unit is borderline useless and needs a serious look at next. its a shame that you dont understand that this nerf doesnt address what it should address, and instead nerfs things that are no problem | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:19 ZenithM wrote: Lol, think what you want then. So I can assume you're gold, that's what you're saying? Huehuehue. It's good that you finished your baseless statement with such a stupid post. I don't feel a need to argue you anymore. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:22 Huragius wrote: It's good that you finished your baseless statement with such a stupid post. I don't feel a need to argue you anymore. See that's funny because I actually know you're master, which fits my "model of TL" better. But come on man, I'm just joshing ya, but your assumption of a typical Gaussion distribution of level on TL is as baseless as it gets as well. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:14 headnut wrote: ok, since obviously over 90% of the people here dont understand what a big impact and wrong impact these hellbat changes bring with: 1. this nerf will change nothing about early hellbat drops, hellbats will need 1 shot more to kill a worker, but that doesnt really change the core of the problem: hellbats never die 2. mech play will be nerfed super hard early game for no reason. in wol mech play was lacking damage and a beefy unit. the hellbat is this unit. with nerfed damage before you have the upgrade you cant really be aggressive or defend hard all ins. 3. bio play will recieve direct nerfs by this change. because you will have hellbats and mines in smaller numbers or later, since u need to research 2 upgrades and more techlabs/dont have 2 reactors/have 1 techlab and the upgrades will take super long. 4. this change will lead to more passive gameplay because of 3. and this will lead to less aggressive and dynamic gameplay/takes away a bit from terrans ability to stop the enemy from doing whatever he wants the best way of nerfing would be to take away the hellbats bio tag, because its the only way to address the drops. and this is the only thing blizzard wanted to address in the first place. im suprised blizzard doesnt realize that and 90% here dont realize that too This post should be in the OP. Really well said. The actual problem (hellbat drops) will still be there after this nerf. Hellbats will disapear in TvZ armies, since you need a 150/150 upgrade, and investing into that makes your midgame push much weaker (and midgame is where the hellbat shines in battles). Oh "150/150" is not a big deal! Yeah true, and let's see how big a deal it would be if we made the spire 150/150 more. Everyone who plays terran know that you are gas starved in the early game: techlabs, stim, combat shield, factory, addons, starport, upgrades, armory = sick amount of gas. In the midgame gas is no problem tough. Things that would nerf the drops: - more cargo space (5) - no healing | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16122 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:19 Brett wrote: Even if I accept what you say about banshees not being used, so fucking what? This is not the sort of game to be bringing in little changes every few months because something has fallen out of favour in the current meta. I don't want SC to become another volatile, FOTM shitfest that swings around every time Blizzard decides to make a change to try and appease people with vested interests (like so many other competitive games out there). Then why nerf Helbat drops? By your logic, they shouldn't adjust the metagame at all since the balance stats say the game is fine. Blizzard's statistics and professional results say there's no reason whatsoever to nerf Helbat drops and yet they are anyway, Blizzard's statistics and professional results say there's no reason whatsoever to buff the Warp Prism and yet they are anyway. Why are you bitching about just Banshees if this is the kind of argument you're going to use? Here's how it is. Helbat drops are too strong, Banshees are too weak, those are both true and both issues are problematic. Rather than simply addressing one Blizzard is addressing both so that they are only changing the metagame once as opposed to twice. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:14 headnut wrote: ok, since obviously over 90% of the people here dont understand what a big impact and wrong impact these hellbat changes bring with: 1. this nerf will change nothing about early hellbat drops, hellbats will need 1 shot more to kill a worker, but that doesnt really change the core of the problem: hellbats never die What if they don't die if they don't kill shit? 2. mech play will be nerfed super hard early game for no reason. in wol mech play was lacking damage and a beefy unit. the hellbat is this unit. with nerfed damage before you have the upgrade you cant really be aggressive or defend hard all ins. Good riddance, mech is fucking boring, especially hellbat-based mech. If it can nerf mech enough that Blizzard feels the need to buff other things, then great. Edit: Boring, except the UNBREAKABLE Jürgen. 3. bio play will recieve direct nerfs by this change. because you will have hellbats and mines in smaller numbers or later, since u need to research 2 upgrades and more techlabs/dont have 2 reactors/have 1 techlab and the upgrades will take super long. Lolwut? "Bio play" and "hellbats" what? Yeah I know hellbats are bio but come on man, I don't make hellbats if I go bio... Unless you're assuming I go hellbat drops into bio, which I won't because the drops won't kill anything :D 4. this change will lead to more passive gameplay because of 3. and this will lead to less aggressive and dynamic gameplay/takes away a bit from terrans ability to stop the enemy from doing whatever he wants It just sounds like you like massing hellbats for whatever reasons. I say get more bio and micro it, you'll feel more dynamic about yourself. -- Truly yours, the 90%. | ||
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Vault Boy
Germany131 Posts
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Akaann
Switzerland82 Posts
On June 15 2013 03:45 Snowbear wrote: PLEASE Blizzard! Hellbat DROPS are the problem >>> nerf damage. People who mix in hellbats instead of mines (TvZ) in their army, get nerfed. The drops will still happen, but hellbat instead of mines in your army is dead as hell. I can't believe this . This is just a nerf to hellbat in army, not hellbat drops imo.Cloack: this makes tvt a bigger coinflip. Is that good? Exactly the problem. I don't like mines. Hellbats worked perfect in the Army. Now they aren't that usefull in fights anymore. At least they should move the Upgrade to the Armory, so that no Techlab at the factory is required. But than the Nerf just has an effect on the Timing. People can still the do the insane Drop. They should change something diffrent, maybe that they can't be healed? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16122 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:41 Vindicare605 wrote: Says you Zenith. I love Mech. Blizzard doesn't :/ Edit: I like when Flash and Mvp play mech, but mech is one of those strats that become really stale and boring the lower the level of play. Mech at foreigner level is equivalent to turtling behind tanks and moving out with planetaries across the map while dropping some hellbats. Super fun. But yeah when Mvp plays it that's a different story. An UNBREAKABLE one at that. | ||
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Brexas
Spain34 Posts
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