EPTCall to Action: June 14 Balance Testing - Page 14
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Blizzard hates tank walls and people turtling behind auto firing AOE damage until victory. I can't really blame them for that. | ||
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headnut
Belgium58 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:35 ZenithM wrote: What if they don't die if they don't kill shit? Good riddance, mech is fucking boring, especially hellbat-based mech. If it can nerf mech enough that Blizzard feels the need to buff other things, then great. Edit: Boring, except the UNBREAKABLE Jürgen. Lolwut? "Bio play" and "hellbats" what? Yeah I know hellbats are bio but come on man, I don't make hellbats if I go bio... Unless you're assuming I go hellbat drops into bio, which I won't because the drops won't kill anything :D It just sounds like you like massing hellbats for whatever reasons. I say get more bio and micro it, you'll feel more dynamic about yourself. -- Truly yours, the 90%. its ok if you think mech is boring. probably because you dont understand how mech needs to be played . its actually much deeper and needs more decision making than bio. hellbats are used in bio compositions vs toss and vs zerg. just because you dont do it, it doesnt mean other people dont want to do it. if you dont have to say something smart, just dont post at all. and if you think mech = turtling... go and watch streloks wcs games | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:45 Brexas wrote: We don’t feel the overall strength of Terran is an issue at this point? What? Please show us where you get the fact that terran is stronger than the other races. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:45 Plansix wrote: Blizzard hates tank walls and people turtling behind auto firing AOE damage until victory. I can't really blame them for that. Yes, exactly. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
And with modern AI, auto firing and pathing, would it be good for the game if people could? Doubtful. But there will always be legions of players who want to build 25 tanks play the waiting game. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
Except turtling like that doesn't really work anymore, it's been heavily nerfed thanks to improved Ravens and Medivac thrusters. They don't need to change it any further there's already a ton of ways to bypass and surround a turtling mech player. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
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headnut
Belgium58 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:48 Plansix wrote: And with modern AI, auto firing and pathing, would it be good for the game if people could? Doubtful. But there will always be legions of players who want to build 25 tanks play the waiting game. watch streloks wcs games and tell me where he is turtling? his mech play vs zerg looks like its bio. his mech play vs toss is super aggressive. flash vs fantasy tvt tell me you want bio more than what you have seen in this video. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:51 BaronVonOwn wrote: If warp prisms go all the way up to 2.953 then neither corruptors or vikings will ever be able to chase them down. It seems ridiculous to me that a dedicated antiair unit won't even be able to kill a transport. These units are enough of an anti-colossus one-trick pony as it is, don't make them worse. I'd rather see the base speed at 2.75 or 2.70. Indeed. I don't know if people remember lategame zealot dt harass in wol (Hero did it a lot). It was sick strong. Now this will be even stronger. 2 prisms constantly harassing lategame will make tvp lategame really really hard. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:51 headnut wrote: watch streloks wcs games and tell me where he is turtling? his mech play vs zerg looks like its bio. his mech play vs toss is super aggressive. What are you talking about? I am talking about the legion of players who keep asking for a tank buff over and over, demanding that it kill all units if it gets seiged(or some level of that complaint). | ||
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headnut
Belgium58 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:53 Plansix wrote: What are you talking about? I am talking about the legion of players who keep asking for a tank buff over and over, demanding that it kill all units if it gets seiged(or some level of that complaint). thought you are talking about general mech play in hots. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On June 15 2013 03:56 Hitch-22 wrote: Hellbats need a nerf in straight up fights... watching a rauder/tank army lose everytime to a hellbat/tank army means that you can only go hellbat vs hellbat, there is no comprimise and as such creates really shitt MU's where rauder/tank could outplay tank/hellion - hellbat/tank always has the advantage every f ucking time... So frustrating to play TvT vs bad players who just mass hellbats and 1a2a3a move whistle doing no economic damage to you and being a base behind but your 200/200 army is just weaker and as such you lose everytime unless they make critical mistakes. why would you go tank marauder and not tank marine in tvt? | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:48 Plansix wrote: And with modern AI, auto firing and pathing, would it be good for the game if people could? Doubtful. But there will always be legions of players who want to build 25 tanks play the waiting game. The problem is that people don't really realize what it takes skillwise to make mech seem as fun as it looks when Mvp or Flash or Fantasy play it. Watch anything below that, mech just feels boring. People just end up sitting behind tanks and thinking they're decision making gods when they "slow-push" across the map after turtling "positionally" for 15 minutes (and their opponent isn't even attacking them). No, dropping hellbats while you fill up your factories with tanks is not "sick play". No, waiting for your master opponent to randomly a-move his army into your 30 sieged tanks is not "sick play". No, killing 10 mutalisks because they reacted too late to your 2 widow mines + 2 turrets + 1 thor turtle is not "sick play" either. What great players do is indeed beautiful mech, but nobody else does it, so meh for mech :/ I realize a lot of players like mech on this forum, be it because it hasn't been used enough in WoL or because it was cool in BW or whatever, but it just doesn't feel cool when playing subpar, it actually feels like a weaker Protoss usual deathball play, and that's not what we want it to be. On the contrary, bio doesn't take as much decision making (as judiciously pointed out by headnut) and revolves around mechanics and micro, which even lower level players can try to do and make it seem somewhat interesting. Edit: And here it comes, headnut quotes the latest VOD of Flash vs Fantasy, which was great and he thinks I disagree with him  I'm not talking about the top 5 Terrans in the world :D | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:53 Plansix wrote: What are you talking about? I am talking about the legion of players who keep asking for a tank buff over and over, demanding that it kill all units if it gets seiged(or some level of that complaint). The trouble is Plansix is that the tank is so bad that without hellbats being super good, mech is worthless. Late game if you've got a tank heavy army you're basically screwed against everything. Ultras deal with them unless you sit behind walls (which I have to do, the tank being so bad forces me to turtle) and don't even get me started on zealots, immortals and archons. Mech doesn't have to be all about turtling, but thanks to having a complete lack of any good AOE against armored units in a mech army, the game design forces you to turtle more. I'd love to be able to push against toss after the 20 minute mark but thanks to warp ins and tanks not being able to hold their own against literally anything, it makes it impossible so I just have to sit behind walls of planetary fortresses and hope I get a good engagement with my ravens./vikings with air or get some lucky EMP's when they charge into me with ground. Tanks need a buff against shields, badly. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:51 BaronVonOwn wrote: If warp prisms go all the way up to 2.953 then neither corruptors or vikings will ever be able to chase them down. It seems ridiculous to me that a dedicated antiair unit won't even be able to kill a transport. These units are enough of an anti-colossus one-trick pony as it is, don't make them worse. I'd rather see the base speed at 2.75 or 2.70. So if corruptors and vikings cant chase medivacs its ok, but if they cant chase the protoss transport unit, blizzard is wrong. Sure. The thing is, to drop, the Warprism needs to be STATIC. Because the warps comes in the static mode. Its totally not as strong as a medivac. It just doesnt die too easily, but that doesnt mean that you can easily drop with it. | ||
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mahO
France274 Posts
On June 15 2013 07:51 Vindicare605 wrote: Show me Terran domination in Korea. Go ahead I'll wait. There's fewer Terrans than EVER in SC2's history in Code S next season. Soulkey a Zerg is a GSL champion. Where is the Terran domination? Show it to me please. Show me domination that doesn't include MVP roflstomping Europe or Innovation slaughtering Code A Zergs in Proleague. Go ahead, I'll wait. Yes, and how did Soulkey win? Oh... Thats right, he had to cheese 3 games in a row and wait for Innovation to suicide 3 full medivacs into him in the final game. Great exemple for how balanced the game is, terran is fine because Innovation never prepared for roach timings and make 2 tanks... The lack of great terran players in Korea (most legends are not in shape these days, MVP, MMA, Taeja, they all hit a slump BEFORE HotS) at the moment is the reason we dont see them rape everyone, but dont worry, 3 seasons of Innovation 4-0ing finals should be enough for you & David Kim to realize. If you want to look at tournament results and then judge balance, look at what strategy won, and how... Zergs are cheesy as fuck because they know they're at a disadvantage if they let T build up. Terrans are the ones that got the new stuff, when terran players will master their new strategies and compositions dont worry, they'll dominate. Fucking roach rush games and you use it as a balance measurement... | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Of course the hellbat nerf is a mech nerf, nothing is more blatant than that. While I'm personally okay with it, I understand some people like to play mech. To those I say: if mech is too weak because hellbats become too weak (to tank properly or harass or defend timings or whatever), Blizzard will probably try to buff something else, which is likely to be more interesting in the long run (unless they buff the fucking thors, FUUUUUU :D) | ||
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