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On June 13 2013 13:20 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 13:10 Caihead wrote:On June 13 2013 13:04 DRTnOOber wrote:
I really don't like the fact it's Bo1 in the Ro32... I don't think it'll let the best player's through, but just whoever prepares the best cheese/build. It feels... wrong that the rest of WCS has Bo3 for this part of the tournament. Preparing builds, dealing with high stress environment, responding correctly to builds on the fly, executing all of that with good fundamentals, these are all a part of what makes the best player. Doing the same macro build and relying on your fundamentals every single game is a major weakness of many players (such as Flash). Having a Bo1 is ample ground for storylines and upsets, which by-the-way, is not necessarily a bad thing. If everyone knew exactly who was going to win because every series was a BoX lim -> infinity, why even watch the matches? How would you have diversity in fandom? Why would anyone cheer for the underdog? Bo1 caters to an aggressive, smart, and planned out style where as Bo3+ caters to a safe, map-by-map, and reliable style. The former is alot more fun to watch for alot of people. Bo1's are also alot more exciting because everything is on the line, every Bo1 is treated like match point in a Bo3+ series in the view of the fans. Bo1s are only ample ground for story lines and upsets because of the randomness included with them. Will you think the same way if Flash gets cheesed out by Ragnorok and Yugioh (a very possible situation in this format)? Bo3s forced players to adapt to their opponent's strategies opposed to the BO1 where they each pick a strategy and the better choice + execution is often enough to just win.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=177348
Already happened. Am I upset that flash lost in that tournament? Yes. Am I hating on the format for it? No. And as you can see from the recommend games poll, they were great games to watch.
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Format is terrible. Never liked the BO1 shit.
I love having the KESPA players in SC2, but I absolutely abhor having OGN/KESPA as well.
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Bisutopia19228 Posts
On June 13 2013 13:36 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 13:20 Emzeeshady wrote:On June 13 2013 13:10 Caihead wrote:On June 13 2013 13:04 DRTnOOber wrote:
I really don't like the fact it's Bo1 in the Ro32... I don't think it'll let the best player's through, but just whoever prepares the best cheese/build. It feels... wrong that the rest of WCS has Bo3 for this part of the tournament. Preparing builds, dealing with high stress environment, responding correctly to builds on the fly, executing all of that with good fundamentals, these are all a part of what makes the best player. Doing the same macro build and relying on your fundamentals every single game is a major weakness of many players (such as Flash). Having a Bo1 is ample ground for storylines and upsets, which by-the-way, is not necessarily a bad thing. If everyone knew exactly who was going to win because every series was a BoX lim -> infinity, why even watch the matches? How would you have diversity in fandom? Why would anyone cheer for the underdog? Bo1 caters to an aggressive, smart, and planned out style where as Bo3+ caters to a safe, map-by-map, and reliable style. The former is alot more fun to watch for alot of people. Bo1's are also alot more exciting because everything is on the line, every Bo1 is treated like match point in a Bo3+ series in the view of the fans. Bo1s are only ample ground for story lines and upsets because of the randomness included with them. Will you think the same way if Flash gets cheesed out by Ragnorok and Yugioh (a very possible situation in this format)? Bo3s forced players to adapt to their opponent's strategies opposed to the BO1 where they each pick a strategy and the better choice + execution is often enough to just win. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=177348Already happened. Am I upset that flash lost in that tournament? Yes. Am I hating on the format for it? No. And as you can see from the recommend games poll, they were great games to watch.
That was one of the best MSL Ro32's!
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On June 13 2013 13:41 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 13:36 Caihead wrote:On June 13 2013 13:20 Emzeeshady wrote:On June 13 2013 13:10 Caihead wrote:On June 13 2013 13:04 DRTnOOber wrote:
I really don't like the fact it's Bo1 in the Ro32... I don't think it'll let the best player's through, but just whoever prepares the best cheese/build. It feels... wrong that the rest of WCS has Bo3 for this part of the tournament. Preparing builds, dealing with high stress environment, responding correctly to builds on the fly, executing all of that with good fundamentals, these are all a part of what makes the best player. Doing the same macro build and relying on your fundamentals every single game is a major weakness of many players (such as Flash). Having a Bo1 is ample ground for storylines and upsets, which by-the-way, is not necessarily a bad thing. If everyone knew exactly who was going to win because every series was a BoX lim -> infinity, why even watch the matches? How would you have diversity in fandom? Why would anyone cheer for the underdog? Bo1 caters to an aggressive, smart, and planned out style where as Bo3+ caters to a safe, map-by-map, and reliable style. The former is alot more fun to watch for alot of people. Bo1's are also alot more exciting because everything is on the line, every Bo1 is treated like match point in a Bo3+ series in the view of the fans. Bo1s are only ample ground for story lines and upsets because of the randomness included with them. Will you think the same way if Flash gets cheesed out by Ragnorok and Yugioh (a very possible situation in this format)? Bo3s forced players to adapt to their opponent's strategies opposed to the BO1 where they each pick a strategy and the better choice + execution is often enough to just win. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=177348Already happened. Am I upset that flash lost in that tournament? Yes. Am I hating on the format for it? No. And as you can see from the recommend games poll, they were great games to watch. That was one of the best MSL Ro32's!
Any time where Bisu rightfully stomps Shine into the ground is a good time.
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I've paid for every single season of everything Gom has done since the GSL started.
This will be the first I don't.
I want regular GSL back. Year round. I guess WCS is just going to eventually ruin basically all of my favorite parts of the SC2 scene.
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Group E, lots of fan favourites there
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On June 13 2013 11:21 BLinD-RawR wrote:
before someone goes on a rant about Bo1 again remind yourself that OGN is a TV channel with many shows a day and they simply do not have time for 5 Bo3s a day.
it sucks but thats the way it is.
We all feel so good when BO1 was removed.How can you be sure X is better than Y if there is some kind of BO loss? So stupid and they say "logistic issues"??? How? You knew you have to organize this 3 months AGO and NOW got "logistic issues"??? I wont understand it and dont care if they are TV cannel. If they are not able to do things ok(MLG hi hihi), just GET OUT AND DONT FUCK the best SC2 tournament in the world...
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On June 13 2013 13:49 Dvriel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 11:21 BLinD-RawR wrote:
before someone goes on a rant about Bo1 again remind yourself that OGN is a TV channel with many shows a day and they simply do not have time for 5 Bo3s a day.
it sucks but thats the way it is. We all feel so good when BO1 was removed.How can you be sure X is better than Y if there is some kind of BO loss? So stupid and they say "logistic issues"??? How? You knew you have to organize this 3 months AGO and NOW got "logistic issues"??? I wont understand it and dont care if they are TV cannel. If they are not able to do things ok(MLG hi hihi), just GET OUT AND DONT FUCK the best SC2 tournament in the world...
First of all. OGN isn't Gomtv, why should they care about GSL? This isn't marketed as a GSL and it never was. It's an OSL.
Second of all. Asking OGN to get out? With out OGN SC2 esports there might have never existed because Blizzard would have never even saw South Korea as a market for esports, or that Starcraft as a series could be an esport at all.
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So, Blizzard says WCS will follow the GSL format.
Except when it's the OSL.
Any thoughts on how the Ro32 format will impact Code A? Because all of these guys have to fit back into that system for next season.
I've paid for every single season of everything Gom has done since the GSL started.
This will be the first I don't.
I want regular GSL back. Year round. I guess WCS is just going to eventually ruin basically all of my favorite parts of the SC2 scene.
Good news! This isn't the GSL. It's the OSL. You don't have to pay GOM for this season. Come to think of it, I don't know that you would want to - you can pull the audio and get the higher resolution OGN stream.
From what I understand, GOM will be doing what OGN was doing for last season's Code S - streaming from a feed from OGN. (Yes, DoA and Montechristo were casting the GSL... from OGN studios. Never got many viewers. Khaldor referenced this on SotG today.)
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On June 13 2013 13:35 Mattumsfox wrote:
So we are going to have 3 WCS America, 3 WCS Europe and 2 WCS Korea with all the same format and 1 WCS Korea that is different. This just seems bad already and then you see it is a BO1 in the ro32 and it makes it look even worse. WCS needs to have all the same map pool and all the same structure in my opinion. I also agree with the other person in that GOM should do WCS and OSL should just be a separate tournament or even the other way around.
GSL does not follow the exact same format as the other WCS to my knowledge. Gom got to keep their Code A/Up-Down structure based on previous GSL while WCS AM/EU follow a similar but different format. The GSL Up-Down are part of the next season while WCS Challengers are part of the previous season. Let's just say Blizzard had no say in how either of the two Korean companies handled the tournaments.
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Bo1's always been the OSL ways in the group stages, not surprising though I would like to see GSL format
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On June 13 2013 13:30 Hammer442 wrote:Chobra commented on it on reddit. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1g8p65/osl_changed_the_wcs_kr_s2_format_change_it_back/cahw2dyShow nested quote +Hey guys
I know there's been a lot of talk about this. Let me just address a few points.
In general As many are pointing out, we are keeping true to the past OSL formats. There are arguments for uniformity as now we are in the era of WCS, and this is duly noted. We, and I am sure other parties as well, will be monitoring things this year to see what to conform and why.
However, for the time being, the situation has allowed us to keep our character, and as we venture into the new WCS with excitement, we're very thankful we can keep that. It may not be for everyone, and it may not be a good fit for SC2 or be changed in the future, but we want to see how it works out before jumping to changes.
GomTV has been successful with their formula for the GSL, and all the props to them for that. I just hope OGN will also be given a chance to stick to what we've done successfully before finalizing any modifications (and hopefully improvements).
We hope you understand and appreciate your patience.
Regarding the Ro32: Yes, we understand the concerns. I do not think bo1's have no benefits, but your concerns are valid. I will admit though, currently we are not putting much time or effort into changing it immediately. This is because, even if we wanted to, the logistics are not feasible for this season. I'm not guaranteeing that it will change in the future, just want to admit that right now given the feasibility of things, we aren't focusing on changing the content, but how to better present that content. Throughout all this, we will definitely be monitoring all aspects, and I think it's safe to say that all the parties involved in the WCS will see vast improvement over the year/next year.
Thanks for chiming in. We're listening, you can trust me on that one.
Please, Chobra, understad this: If every single WCS out of Korea take this format nad make it succeed its because IT WORKS perfectly. Now, you come and screw it with your unknown "logictics". If you are not prepared,just dont do it, WTF!!! You already know its a shit and almost everyone is pissed. I want to see the best players advance, because I expect the best quality of games from the best players in the world. Dont wanna see flash being dropped, because the Zergs decide to baneling bust him every game. The cheese is not the best way to show your skill and you are promoving this. Where is the LOGICstic here???? Explain yourself better, because NO ONE will understand you.
Poll: BO1 Format in RO32:Disapprove (1351) 90% Approve (149) 10% 1500 total votes Your vote: BO1 Format in RO32: (Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
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On June 13 2013 11:03 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 11:01 Arceus wrote:On June 13 2013 10:57 FeyFey wrote:
bo1 on untested maps ? Can someone tell em its not BW we are playing. Oh well atleast Ro16 can be really funny now. you really think that the maps are not tested by hundred of KeSPA players beforehand? You think a few KeSPA players and coaches testing them is enough? Because they didn't ever put any imbalanced maps in PL before?
PL maps have been imbalanced for the better and for the worse. It made some great games in the past in BW and to a much smaller but reasonable extent in WoL. Starleague maps have been rather balanced.
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On June 13 2013 13:59 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 13:36 Caihead wrote:On June 13 2013 13:20 Emzeeshady wrote:On June 13 2013 13:10 Caihead wrote:On June 13 2013 13:04 DRTnOOber wrote:
I really don't like the fact it's Bo1 in the Ro32... I don't think it'll let the best player's through, but just whoever prepares the best cheese/build. It feels... wrong that the rest of WCS has Bo3 for this part of the tournament. Preparing builds, dealing with high stress environment, responding correctly to builds on the fly, executing all of that with good fundamentals, these are all a part of what makes the best player. Doing the same macro build and relying on your fundamentals every single game is a major weakness of many players (such as Flash). Having a Bo1 is ample ground for storylines and upsets, which by-the-way, is not necessarily a bad thing. If everyone knew exactly who was going to win because every series was a BoX lim -> infinity, why even watch the matches? How would you have diversity in fandom? Why would anyone cheer for the underdog? Bo1 caters to an aggressive, smart, and planned out style where as Bo3+ caters to a safe, map-by-map, and reliable style. The former is alot more fun to watch for alot of people. Bo1's are also alot more exciting because everything is on the line, every Bo1 is treated like match point in a Bo3+ series in the view of the fans. Bo1s are only ample ground for story lines and upsets because of the randomness included with them. Will you think the same way if Flash gets cheesed out by Ragnorok and Yugioh (a very possible situation in this format)? Bo3s forced players to adapt to their opponent's strategies opposed to the BO1 where they each pick a strategy and the better choice + execution is often enough to just win. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=177348Already happened. Am I upset that flash lost in that tournament? Yes. Am I hating on the format for it? No. And as you can see from the recommend games poll, they were great games to watch. This isn't BW. I don't know how good BW BO1s are but SC2 BO1s tend to suck (look at ups and downs).
Sc2 tends to be a little more luck based because of the possibility of cheese/build order wins. So ya bo1 in sc2 is iffy :S though they did have it in the GSL years back so it shouldn't be too bad
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Fun fact. If the ro32 in season finals had been played as bo1, Innovation, the eventual champion could not have advanced as 1st from his group, and could even have potentially been eliminated. Mvp, the semi finalist wouldn't have advanced past ro32.
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I don't understand the reasoning that because OSL has always done it this way, we should just accept the bo1. No matter what they call it, this will be the Code S for next season. It is the players that make the tournament, not the studio. OSL is pretty much coming in and taking over Code S. not vice versa. For them to make such a big change to the R32 of my favorite tournament is really disheartening. Less games of my favorite players, always terrible.
I'll still watch it and enjoy the games, but i don't have to like it!
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The fact that results from this BO1 will carry over to other tournaments with BO3 and vice versa looks so strange from someone who never watched OSL's production before.
Also what is this about LoL being the reason for the scheduling conflict that's keeping them from adjusting the format?
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On June 13 2013 14:07 sitromit wrote:
Fun fact. If the ro32 in season finals had been played as bo1, Innovation, the eventual champion could not have advanced as 1st from his group, and could even have potentially been eliminated. Mvp, the semi finalist wouldn't have advanced past ro32.
If it was Bo1 the players wouldn't have played the way they did so this is completely irrelevant. That would be like saying "If the last WCS Korea finals was Bo5, Innovation would have won 3-0". You don't know that, players prepare completely differently for different Bo settings.
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EPT
