EPTWarp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 54
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On May 30 2013 14:18 a176 wrote: Arbiter, where art thou? How often we're those used in PvP and PvZ? I know they are critical in PvT, but I thought reaver wars was the bulk of the other two matchups? | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
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BerthaG
France74 Posts
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TeslasPigeon
464 Posts
On May 30 2013 15:13 BerthaG wrote: below master this change will have no influence. Not many Zerg units can catch up with a fast warp prism. | ||
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league
Peru58 Posts
On May 30 2013 15:23 TeslasPigeon wrote: Not many Zerg units can catch up with a fast warp prism. So? Not many Protoss unit can catch up to speedlings | ||
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syno
Switzerland150 Posts
On May 30 2013 16:10 league wrote: So? Not many Protoss unit can catch up to speedlings You can't compare apples to oranges. I think this change WILL have an influence below masters. | ||
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league
Peru58 Posts
On May 30 2013 12:03 EleanorRIgby wrote: You make is sound more of a risk then it is, if you chrono it out it doesn't take much time at all. a raven on the other hand you need to switch techlab to reactor make a slow building raven that costs 200 gas and then switch back add on's which terran desperately need in the midgame for medivacs. And medivacs are much much more crucial to the terran mid game then a warp prism is. Not saying making a prism isn't a risk but just a super small one. I'm all for a buff to the prism to get protoss to start multitasking and harass more but i would rather add a hp/shield boost or a small increase in base speed while keeping the speed upgrade, maybe even make the speed upgrade a bit cheaper. Right now it just seems too big of a buff to start out with. Maybe the rest map will give us some more solid results as this is all speculation, just think blizzard should start off with a smaller buff and work their way up if needed. Delaying it is a risk and it takes much time even with chrono. And using chrono on colossi would mean less probes for protoss which is what they use to counter the almighty mules. Colossi need to have its thermal lance upgrade to be useful, to get a useful colossi, you need: Gateway, Cybercore, Robotics Facility, Robotics Support bay, and then do a long Reasearch for range And colossi are much more crucial than a raven I'm not saying that the change is good or bad. I don't know the effect of the change or should it be done, but stop spouting biased garbage | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On May 30 2013 15:23 TeslasPigeon wrote: Not many Zerg units can catch up with a fast warp prism. Maybe they don't have to. If you want to use it aggressively you'll still have to put it in harms way one way or another. It's not like with medivacs that terrans make a gazillion of anyway. | ||
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Swisslink
2958 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 30 2013 15:13 BerthaG wrote: below master this change will have no influence. Well toss doesn't need a buff for people below masters anyway this might affect it a little bit but it's going to be noticed more in high level play then lower levels this shouldn't be a surprise. Game should be balanced around highest level of play as everyone below masters isn't losing because of balance, but because they need to improve. | ||
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alphaproxy
68 Posts
On May 30 2013 16:47 Swisslink wrote: Btw: One should probably consider that the next WCS Korea season will be played in Bo1-format. Dunno, but I can't get rid of the feeling that buffing Protoss before such a season isn't the best idea. Yes im sure you preffer Protoss being worse than the other races for another couple of years, just in case they get overbuffed. Maybe you should get a job for Blizzard too  | ||
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Swisslink
2958 Posts
On May 30 2013 17:11 alphaproxy wrote: Yes im sure you preffer Protoss being worse than the other races for another couple of years, just in case they get overbuffed. Maybe you should get a job for Blizzard too They're not worse right now (Winrates in Korea, GSL) and they're way stronger in Bo1 (Winrates In Korea, GSTL/Proleague) - that's all I said. And these facts were already proven, Protoss don't lose more often than the other races in GSL | ||
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BerthaG
France74 Posts
On May 30 2013 16:53 blade55555 wrote: Well toss doesn't need a buff for people below masters anyway this might affect it a little bit but it's going to be noticed more in high level play then lower levels this shouldn't be a surprise. Game should be balanced around highest level of play as everyone below masters isn't losing because of balance, but because they need to improve. Let me explain, I think this will have no influence below master and it is a good thing, because you need to multitask a lot to make a proper harass, low league will probably try to harass but will forgot they cycle production and other important stuff. If people are afraid of wp all in, guys that was actually the same as before, it may win 5 sec to cross the map, that it. This buff is to make harass more easy for P in midd game like medivac, I think it is a very good thing. Mid game P is quite boring defending drops vs T and defending B3 vs Z, or going all in ^^. Be sure if your are lower than master this will change nothing to you. If your opponent try fancy micro just focus on your macro defending as best as you can and you won. | ||
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Brett
Australia3823 Posts
On May 30 2013 16:18 syno wrote: You can't compare apples to oranges. I think this change WILL have an influence below masters. Even if everyone accepts that as a fact, who gives a shit? Below that level, something as minor as this is not going to be the determining factor in 99% of games. | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
On May 30 2013 16:10 league wrote: So? No on ground here you go | ||
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gdp
United States7 Posts
ymir233 United States. May 29 2013 02:36. Posts 1257 PM Profile Blog Report Only if overlords come with speed. Give me SC1 OLs. Overlords with detection :D | ||
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Surili
United Kingdom1141 Posts
On May 30 2013 14:12 Thieving Magpie wrote: And even if protoss isn't weak (I don't think they are personally) what is bad about a buff that makes the game more kinetic and dynamic? Exactly. People are talking about this like it is a balance patch when it is in fact a design patch in order to make the game more fun. They may have to change other things later, but we shall cross that bridge when we come to it. Personally i am in favour of weakening collosus significantly, making it cheaper and faster to build, so that it isn't the case that it is the unit that your entire army is built around, and splitting them up might make some semblance of sense.. | ||
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Marcus Arcadia
Philippines92 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On May 30 2013 17:11 alphaproxy wrote: Yes im sure you preffer Protoss being worse than the other races for another couple of years, just in case they get overbuffed. Maybe you should get a job for Blizzard too Your sarcasm is misplaced due to the lack of thought behind your reasoning, because buffing isnt the only way to balance stuff ... it is just the way where you get less whining posts on forums AND Blizzard hates to have to take out "cool new stuff they came up with" because that is the same as admitting failure. Sadly idiotic kiddies dont understand that units dont live in a vacuum and affect every other unit and thus a buff to one unit (or building) will affect other units as well. That is the reason why every proposed change atm is a buff instead of a nerf. The Spore Crawler buff for example does affect more units than just Mutalisks and the better solution would have been to get rid of the ridiculous changes which made Mutalisks the top choice in ZvZ ... the buffs to speed and regeneration. Blizzard doesnt want their kiddies to start whining again, so they stick to buffs when they introduce new stuff. Protoss are bad because of the massive numbers of units on the battlefield. Just check it yourself ... a single Stalker can micro and fight a trio of Marines and win or at least kill two of them, but once the numbers get to "critical numbers" (i.e. huge) amounts you NEED Forcefield and Blink as a crutch to make Stalkers work. This is very very obviously the problem of the whole game design (unit production, scale of the economy, unit selection and unit movement) and should be changed and buffing units doesnt get rid of it in any way without introducing more problems. As my first act as a Blizzard employee I would consequently get rid of any member of the design team who thinks the game shouldnt be fixed to solve this "problem of numbers", but they are unlikely to hire me for such a position because the devs would be asked for their approval ... so the problem will stay ... unless a miracle happens. Fixing the "problem of too many units" is easy: a. introduce a unit selection limit b. introduce forced unit spreading while moving c. reduce the economy (because a. and b. together should make sure that battles are fought with fewer units and thus you need to produce fewer of them) d. take out production speed boosts (same reasoning as for c.) Adding more and more speed for every unit is the wrong way to go, because only professionals will be skilled enough to counter them in the end and such a game should be played and enjoyed by the masses and not just a handful of professionals (even though the masses could still watch it). Thus the whole "lets buff the speed on the Warp Prism" is stupid. | ||
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