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On May 30 2013 22:53 Crownlol wrote:
Odd idea, but this seems the right place for it. Why are Protoss t1 unit upgrades researched at a t3 building, while every other race can research their mechanic upgrades faster (stim/conc/ling speed/roachspeed)?
Currently, Protoss's biggest problem is weak Gateway units right? I believe this is universally agreed upon. Would moving Charge and Blink to Cybercore really be that OP? Stim and Conc shell are more gamechanging, and are researched from a t1.5/t2 building.
Blink might be a bit much, but putting Charge in Cybercore would encourage more aggressive play. At least Zealot drops would actually do some harassment.
Yes, that would be quite OP. I'm a Toss player and that would pretty much break the game IMO.
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On May 30 2013 19:37 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 19:23 baldgye wrote:On May 30 2013 15:13 BerthaG wrote:
below master this change will have no influence. Balancing for below masters is pointless anyway No it isnt because that is a pretty large part of the "playing population" and you shouldnt have an "intentionally broken game for noobs". Incredibly bad attitude because you can make the game balanced AND fun to watch for every level of skill ... BW did it, so why cant SC2? People new to the game will start at "less than masters" and you wouldnt want to tell them to "f*** off" because you are too lazy to balance the game in a good manner.
Doesn't the matchmaking take care of this to some extent?
In that people who are at a certain level of skill in using new buffed units will eventually be matched with people who can rebuff those rebuffed units?
Why force a ceiling on skill?
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Bisutopia19333 Posts
I'm tired of them removing upgrades and auto giving them to solve problems. The issue with protoss is much larger and the harass unit available are not exciting.
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As a terran player I welcome this change, it'll make the match up more interactive and force me into playing more carefully rather than just full on aggression early (as I tend to do in TvP) - it'll speed up the pace of the matchup across the map and will most likely help me improve my TvP to boot.
However, I feel for the zerg - I think this will prove a severe threat to them early prisms are already really strong in ZvP in my opinion. I'm thrilled to see how this will influence PvP too.
Personally I'd gone about this change a bit differently, simply just reduce the research time by a hefty amount - maybe even as far as to cut it in half.
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On May 30 2013 22:53 Crownlol wrote:
Odd idea, but this seems the right place for it. Why are Protoss t1 unit upgrades researched at a t3 building, while every other race can research their mechanic upgrades faster (stim/conc/ling speed/roachspeed)?
Currently, Protoss's biggest problem is weak Gateway units right? I believe this is universally agreed upon. Would moving Charge and Blink to Cybercore really be that OP? Stim and Conc shell are more gamechanging, and are researched from a t1.5/t2 building.
Blink might be a bit much, but putting Charge in Cybercore would encourage more aggressive play. At least Zealot drops would actually do some harassment.
1 base blink all in got nerfed because it was OP in PvT with MsC. charge and blink + warpgate make gateway units very strong. oh and TC is available much earlier than roachspeed. charge and blink are fine the way they are. early game gateway units cant be made stronger as long as warpgate is there. once warpgate is gone you can get rid of FF (give sentry sth else) and buff zealot and stalker. but blizz wont ever remove warpgate so yeah P stays in a kind of bad place sadly.
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On May 30 2013 23:03 BisuDagger wrote:
I'm tired of them removing upgrades and auto giving them to solve problems. The issue with protoss is much larger and the harass unit available are not exciting.
Warp prism + basically anything is now a "harass" unit though....Protoss has tons of options with the whole dropship that can warp in units mechanics. People seem to underestimate just how powerful dt drops can be, even if your opponent is decently prepared for it. Obviously if someone is 110 percent prepared for some dt play he will shut it down pretty hardcore, but that's true for ANYTHING in this game.
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I see one problem with warpprism buff it is his obvious synergy with DTs. If warpprism is quick enough, there is no hope to catch DT with scan again since marines and vikings will be too slow to catch WP before it takes out DT run away and drop DT in another location without turret. It will be endless harass if microed well forcing a tonshit of expensive turrets or mobilizing so much troops to defend that it would be too cost effective anyway
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Italy12246 Posts
You mean like there's no hope to catch a medivac with boosters?
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On May 30 2013 23:11 klup wrote:
I see one problem with warpprism buff it is his obvious synergy with DTs. If warpprism is quick enough, there is no hope to catch DT with scan again since marines and vikings will be too slow to catch WP before it takes out DT run away and drop DT in another location without turret. It will be endless harass if microed well forcing a tonshit of expensive turrets or mobilizing so much troops to defend that it would be too cost effective anyway
The buff doesn't make it faster--it simply means it is sooner.
This means there is a timing window to attack that shrinks over time.
This is a good thing.
What you're describing is a good thing.
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the problem is what the dropship actually carries. When you see what parting could do with simple WP with immortals it is obvious this buff will make immortal push a nightmare for zerg. And about DT harass the potential of this new WP to spread DT all other the place super quickly and save all DT in difficulty will make this kind of harass too powerful for it costs. Remember that a WP doesn't cost any gas atm.
Comparing to a terran medivac you need all your load at the same place to do dmg whereas a WP can spread his 4 DT and each can do dmg on its own
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On May 30 2013 23:27 klup wrote:
the problem is what the dropship actually carries. When you see what parting could do with simple WP with immortals it is obvious this buff will make immortal push a nightmare for zerg. And about DT harass the potential of this new WP to spread DT all other the place super quickly and save all DT in difficulty will make this kind of harass too powerful for it costs. Remember that a WP doesn't cost any gas atm
It doesn't help the all ins since the WP doesn't move very far from the pick up point and usually just picks up an immortal and then drops it back into the fight just to spread out the damage. During an all in--the prism can only really move as fast as the army can. It just means its easier to keep it safe during the all in, not much else. It encourages micro and teaches players to have faster hands.
And DT drops with fast prisms will simply be short range non-aoe versions of reaver drops in BW. and I would love that.
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On May 30 2013 22:57 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 22:53 Crownlol wrote:
Odd idea, but this seems the right place for it. Why are Protoss t1 unit upgrades researched at a t3 building, while every other race can research their mechanic upgrades faster (stim/conc/ling speed/roachspeed)?
Currently, Protoss's biggest problem is weak Gateway units right? I believe this is universally agreed upon. Would moving Charge and Blink to Cybercore really be that OP? Stim and Conc shell are more gamechanging, and are researched from a t1.5/t2 building.
Blink might be a bit much, but putting Charge in Cybercore would encourage more aggressive play. At least Zealot drops would actually do some harassment. Yes, that would be quite OP. I'm a Toss player and that would pretty much break the game IMO.
actually if warp gate tech was available later in some higher tech tree, but allowing toss to have blink/charger research, it might be interesting
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Can´t wait for HerO to blow minds. 
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Bisutopia19333 Posts
On May 30 2013 23:49 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 22:57 HolyArrow wrote:On May 30 2013 22:53 Crownlol wrote:
Odd idea, but this seems the right place for it. Why are Protoss t1 unit upgrades researched at a t3 building, while every other race can research their mechanic upgrades faster (stim/conc/ling speed/roachspeed)?
Currently, Protoss's biggest problem is weak Gateway units right? I believe this is universally agreed upon. Would moving Charge and Blink to Cybercore really be that OP? Stim and Conc shell are more gamechanging, and are researched from a t1.5/t2 building.
Blink might be a bit much, but putting Charge in Cybercore would encourage more aggressive play. At least Zealot drops would actually do some harassment. Yes, that would be quite OP. I'm a Toss player and that would pretty much break the game IMO. actually if warp gate tech was available later in some higher tech tree, but allowing toss to have blink/charger research, it might be interesting
I would rather they introduce the speed upgrade on zealots from BW.
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I find the zergs complaining that "zerg has no reliable harassment options" quite epic, for the race that punishes minute mistakes the hardest. "Mutalisks are not considered harassment units".....really? Mutalisk tech switches are incredible against Protoss, especially since Storms don't do shit to mutalisks with their new regeneration.
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Blizzard has kept Medivac speedboost the way it is because it is more exciting to watch. I'm sure their primary goal with giving Warp Prism speed for free is to make Warp Prism more exciting. It is probably just that simple.
As for balance, it probably won't break anything (just like Medivac speedboost didn't break anything). This will just require the opponent to defend differently, as with defending against the new Medivacs.
But many argue that Medivac speedboost is broken. I feel that sentiment is because your race doesn't have anything that is comparative. Well, now Warp Prism will also get free speed (if this buff goes through). So a question that may eventually arise is "what about Zerg?" No, Muta is not the same thing as Medivac or Warp Prism since it requires you invest significantly more resources into it. I would think that Nydus is the unit to be buffed for Zerg. It is very dynamic, just like Medivacs and Warp Prisms. It also requires the opponent to defend against properly or else take significant damage. Zerg players don't really use it now because it is so expensive for being so risky, and they feel it is better to invest those resources into something more reliable.
Just my thoughts.
(I play Zerg, high diamond.)
TL;DR -- Blizz is trying to make the game more exciting. Free Warp Prism speed isn't going to break anything.
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On May 31 2013 00:01 xAdra wrote:
I find the zergs complaining that "zerg has no reliable harassment options" quite epic, for the race that punishes minute mistakes the hardest. "Mutalisks are not considered harassment units".....really? Mutalisk tech switches are incredible against Protoss, especially since Storms don't do shit to mutalisks with their new regeneration.
Mutalisks are a significant investment. Each Muta is the price of 1 Medivac, and it requires about 8 Mutalisks at a minimum to be effective for harass. That's the equivalent of 8 Medivacs just to harass. See how that doesn't compare?
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On May 30 2013 23:59 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 23:49 ETisME wrote:On May 30 2013 22:57 HolyArrow wrote:On May 30 2013 22:53 Crownlol wrote:
Odd idea, but this seems the right place for it. Why are Protoss t1 unit upgrades researched at a t3 building, while every other race can research their mechanic upgrades faster (stim/conc/ling speed/roachspeed)?
Currently, Protoss's biggest problem is weak Gateway units right? I believe this is universally agreed upon. Would moving Charge and Blink to Cybercore really be that OP? Stim and Conc shell are more gamechanging, and are researched from a t1.5/t2 building.
Blink might be a bit much, but putting Charge in Cybercore would encourage more aggressive play. At least Zealot drops would actually do some harassment. Yes, that would be quite OP. I'm a Toss player and that would pretty much break the game IMO. actually if warp gate tech was available later in some higher tech tree, but allowing toss to have blink/charger research, it might be interesting I would rather they introduce the speed upgrade on zealots from BW.
Charge does increase zealot speed... Or are you simply asking that the speed upgrade on charge be increased?
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On May 31 2013 00:10 Jinky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 00:01 xAdra wrote:
I find the zergs complaining that "zerg has no reliable harassment options" quite epic, for the race that punishes minute mistakes the hardest. "Mutalisks are not considered harassment units".....really? Mutalisk tech switches are incredible against Protoss, especially since Storms don't do shit to mutalisks with their new regeneration. Mutalisks are a significant investment. Each Muta is the price of 1 Medivac, and it requires about 8 Mutalisks at a minimum to be effective for harass. That's the equivalent of 8 Medivacs just to harass. See how that doesn't compare?
Surprisingly enough--that's about how many Medivacs terran wants to have in order to do drop play. 2 out in the map and 6ish above the army. As two are retreating, fill up another two to hit again leaving 4 in the army waiting for the retreating two to come back.
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On May 31 2013 00:10 Jinky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 00:01 xAdra wrote:
I find the zergs complaining that "zerg has no reliable harassment options" quite epic, for the race that punishes minute mistakes the hardest. "Mutalisks are not considered harassment units".....really? Mutalisk tech switches are incredible against Protoss, especially since Storms don't do shit to mutalisks with their new regeneration. Mutalisks are a significant investment. Each Muta is the price of 1 Medivac, and it requires about 8 Mutalisks at a minimum to be effective for harass. That's the equivalent of 8 Medivacs just to harass. See how that doesn't compare?
The game was never designed for all the races to have equivalent harass options. What is important is that you do have them, with mutalisks, speedlings, burrow (and burrow move), nydus, etc, etc..
Protoss on the other hand is more limited. Static anti-air pretty much deny most of their "single harass" units, so they're left with warp prisms. And blink stalkers maybe? that's kind of like mutalisks though, except that mutalisks are far better to mass :D
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