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Warp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
1346 CommentsPost a Reply
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wongfeihung
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States763 Posts
May 29 2013 02:51 GMT
#601
On May 29 2013 11:33 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What about HT warped in by WP fields take twice as long to warp in (so like 8-10 seconds) but spawn with 75 energy to promote aggressive storm drops instead of making WP faster?

Or give Warp Prisms Energize. While we're at it, give Warp Prisms the Shield Battery ability.
fighter2_40
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States420 Posts
May 29 2013 02:56 GMT
#602
Buff warp prism speed but make it so warp ins from warp prism takes twice as long to finish. A direct buff of speed would be kinda lame and not cool.

Add research at robo bay to make warp ins from warp prism take the same amount of time.
Wingblade
Profile Joined April 2012
United States1806 Posts
May 29 2013 03:00 GMT
#603
On May 29 2013 11:04 FeyFey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 09:41 Plansix wrote:
On May 29 2013 09:39 idkfa wrote:
Dude if Blizzard buffs upgrade costs for Protoss, the game will be nothing but GomPvP.

Whoops, wrong doomsday prediction. Boy, do I have egg on my face!

LOL, I forgot about that freak out. "With the upgrade buff, how will anyone keep up with protoss on upgrades?"

With that half a stalker, we will rule the world. There is nothing better than half a stalker.


The change ended up forcing Terran to go for double upgrades as soon as possible, so the gas can't go anywhere else at the start limiting the options a terran has and making them weak against some early game stuff. Removed the building upgrade from TvP you could say.
And Protoss still doesn't go for shield upgrades and only for 3/3 keeping their army at the equivalent of 2/2 of the other races wondering why they lose.
So every doomsday prediction that was reasonable happened.


None of the things you claim actually happen lol its pretty evident you are talking out of your butt.

And NONE of the doomsday predictions were reasonable, as we have now found out.
PartinG fanboy to the max, Rain/Squirtle/Dear/Scarlett/Bbyong are cool too. I don't always watch Dota2 but when I do I have no clue what's going on. GOGO POWER RANGERS
Empirimancer
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada1024 Posts
May 29 2013 03:01 GMT
#604
Not necessary IMO.

TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
May 29 2013 03:11 GMT
#605
On May 29 2013 11:50 petered wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 11:33 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What about HT warped in by WP fields take twice as long to warp in (so like 8-10 seconds) but spawn with 75 energy to promote aggressive storm drops instead of making WP faster?


You still have the problem that storm currently does so little damage that almost all pros/better players will pull their workers without losing any before. Still, I really like that idea. I wish they would give storm a damage buff, possibly in conjunction with your change (and of course needed to nerf toss in a few other ways I would think).

I am about 90% sure that SC2 storm does more DPS than BW storm did, by a pretty good sized margin. If you buff damage of storm it would be guaranteed damage always. I have seen storm drops successful when used, it is just rarely used because HT take so long to build energy and you usually use them with your army because of that.
Rainling
Profile Joined June 2011
United States456 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-29 03:17:32
May 29 2013 03:14 GMT
#606
On May 29 2013 11:12 Falling wrote:
I still think they need to look what goes IN to the warp-prism more than the warp-prism itself. Tweak with how effective units are when directly controlled to bump up harass potentinal. And I don't mean how the warp-prism can send an entire bank warp-gate reinforcements into an opponents base. But old-school shuttle play and storm harass. It'is for this reason that I have never liked the idea of the Oracle as a harass unit. I would much prefer making ground units used in conjuction with the warp-prism used for harss than air-spell-caster equivalent of the Void Ray.

I agree. Micro-intensive units are lacking in sc2, I think this game could use more.
On May 29 2013 11:30 Darkcloud20 wrote:
I still wish they would remove Warp Gate and buff gateway units.
I know it would pretty much require Blizzard to rework the whole Protoss race, but I think it would be for the better.

I think it would be better if warpgate had significantly increased cooldowns between warp ins so producing out of warp gates was slower, so protoss would have some of their gateways as gateways for standard production and some as warp gates for aggressive warp-ins and reinforcements. This would allow gateway units to be buffed and the warp gate mechanic to retain a role.
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
May 29 2013 03:15 GMT
#607
thats way too much of a buff to start out with, just up the base speed a bit. 200 minerals for a speed prism that can warp in huge forces all around the map is stupid.
savior did nothing wrong
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 29 2013 03:16 GMT
#608
On May 29 2013 12:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 11:50 petered wrote:
On May 29 2013 11:33 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What about HT warped in by WP fields take twice as long to warp in (so like 8-10 seconds) but spawn with 75 energy to promote aggressive storm drops instead of making WP faster?


You still have the problem that storm currently does so little damage that almost all pros/better players will pull their workers without losing any before. Still, I really like that idea. I wish they would give storm a damage buff, possibly in conjunction with your change (and of course needed to nerf toss in a few other ways I would think).

I am about 90% sure that SC2 storm does more DPS than BW storm did, by a pretty good sized margin. If you buff damage of storm it would be guaranteed damage always. I have seen storm drops successful when used, it is just rarely used because HT take so long to build energy and you usually use them with your army because of that.

Storm does more dps in SC2 than in BW?!?!? LOL. Wait wait, tell me another one. That colossi do more damage than reavers? Oh wait, that zerglings are stronger in sc2? That the raven is more powerful than the science vessel?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-29 03:18:46
May 29 2013 03:18 GMT
#609
On May 29 2013 12:16 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 12:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On May 29 2013 11:50 petered wrote:
On May 29 2013 11:33 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What about HT warped in by WP fields take twice as long to warp in (so like 8-10 seconds) but spawn with 75 energy to promote aggressive storm drops instead of making WP faster?


You still have the problem that storm currently does so little damage that almost all pros/better players will pull their workers without losing any before. Still, I really like that idea. I wish they would give storm a damage buff, possibly in conjunction with your change (and of course needed to nerf toss in a few other ways I would think).

I am about 90% sure that SC2 storm does more DPS than BW storm did, by a pretty good sized margin. If you buff damage of storm it would be guaranteed damage always. I have seen storm drops successful when used, it is just rarely used because HT take so long to build energy and you usually use them with your army because of that.

Storm does more dps in SC2 than in BW?!?!? LOL. Wait wait, tell me another one. That colossi do more damage than reavers? Oh wait, that zerglings are stronger in sc2? That the raven is more powerful than the science vessel?

BW storm did 112 dmg over 7 seconds
SC2 storm does 80 dmg over 4 seconds

BW storm = 16DPS
SC2 storm = 20DPS

Therefore, SC2 storm deal more DPS than BW storm.

Get educated before you try and be funny.
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
May 29 2013 03:18 GMT
#610
On May 29 2013 12:15 EleanorRIgby wrote:
thats way too much of a buff to start out with, just up the base speed a bit. 200 minerals for a speed prism that can warp in huge forces all around the map is stupid.

That's basically what they did.
Refer to my post.
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
May 29 2013 03:19 GMT
#611
On May 29 2013 12:16 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 12:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On May 29 2013 11:50 petered wrote:
On May 29 2013 11:33 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What about HT warped in by WP fields take twice as long to warp in (so like 8-10 seconds) but spawn with 75 energy to promote aggressive storm drops instead of making WP faster?


You still have the problem that storm currently does so little damage that almost all pros/better players will pull their workers without losing any before. Still, I really like that idea. I wish they would give storm a damage buff, possibly in conjunction with your change (and of course needed to nerf toss in a few other ways I would think).

I am about 90% sure that SC2 storm does more DPS than BW storm did, by a pretty good sized margin. If you buff damage of storm it would be guaranteed damage always. I have seen storm drops successful when used, it is just rarely used because HT take so long to build energy and you usually use them with your army because of that.

Storm does more dps in SC2 than in BW?!?!? LOL. Wait wait, tell me another one. That colossi do more damage than reavers? Oh wait, that zerglings are stronger in sc2? That the raven is more powerful than the science vessel?


lol yea comparing units like this is retarded, storm against bio in broodwar is insta death and even 2 storms could kill 4-5 tanks.
savior did nothing wrong
Rainling
Profile Joined June 2011
United States456 Posts
May 29 2013 03:19 GMT
#612
On May 29 2013 12:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 11:50 petered wrote:
On May 29 2013 11:33 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What about HT warped in by WP fields take twice as long to warp in (so like 8-10 seconds) but spawn with 75 energy to promote aggressive storm drops instead of making WP faster?


You still have the problem that storm currently does so little damage that almost all pros/better players will pull their workers without losing any before. Still, I really like that idea. I wish they would give storm a damage buff, possibly in conjunction with your change (and of course needed to nerf toss in a few other ways I would think).

I am about 90% sure that SC2 storm does more DPS than BW storm did, by a pretty good sized margin. If you buff damage of storm it would be guaranteed damage always. I have seen storm drops successful when used, it is just rarely used because HT take so long to build energy and you usually use them with your army because of that.

sc1 storm does 112 damage, sc2 storm does 80 damage. I don't know how the aoes compare based on how units clump in both games.
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-29 03:19:50
May 29 2013 03:19 GMT
#613
On May 29 2013 12:18 Zenbrez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 12:15 EleanorRIgby wrote:
thats way too much of a buff to start out with, just up the base speed a bit. 200 minerals for a speed prism that can warp in huge forces all around the map is stupid.

That's basically what they did.


they are upping the speed A LOT not a bit lol, also save a lot of resources on the upgrade. 200 minerals for this kind of power is stupid
savior did nothing wrong
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
May 29 2013 03:21 GMT
#614
On May 29 2013 12:19 Rainling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 12:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On May 29 2013 11:50 petered wrote:
On May 29 2013 11:33 TheRabidDeer wrote:
What about HT warped in by WP fields take twice as long to warp in (so like 8-10 seconds) but spawn with 75 energy to promote aggressive storm drops instead of making WP faster?


You still have the problem that storm currently does so little damage that almost all pros/better players will pull their workers without losing any before. Still, I really like that idea. I wish they would give storm a damage buff, possibly in conjunction with your change (and of course needed to nerf toss in a few other ways I would think).

I am about 90% sure that SC2 storm does more DPS than BW storm did, by a pretty good sized margin. If you buff damage of storm it would be guaranteed damage always. I have seen storm drops successful when used, it is just rarely used because HT take so long to build energy and you usually use them with your army because of that.

sc1 storm does 112 damage, sc2 storm does 80 damage. I don't know how the aoes compare based on how units clump in both games.

sc1 storm lasted longer and dealt damage more slowly
sc2 storm is shorter but deals damage more quickly

sc1 storm did have a larger radius though
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11486 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-29 03:27:15
May 29 2013 03:22 GMT
#615
You can't just look at dps, you have to look at where the damge occurs. Front-loaded burst damage better allows units to be dropped off and picked up continually.

Although I'm pretty sure that BW storms do more damage. But SC2 storms have been balanced around the ease of mass storms rather than balanced around concentrated damage of a couple storms. Easy carpet-bombing the entire screen needs the damage diffused to be balanced. But it doesn't lend itself as much for harass where you need concentrated burst damage in very specific areas.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mar a Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-29 03:27:23
May 29 2013 03:25 GMT
#616
On May 29 2013 12:22 Falling wrote:
You can't just look at dps, you have to look at where the damge occurs. Front-loaded burst damage better allows units to be dropped off and picked up continually. Although I'm pretty sure that BW storms do more damage. But SC2 storms have been balanced around the ease of mass storms rather than balanced around burst damage on a couple storms. Easy carpet-bombing the entire screen needs the damage diffused to be balanced. But it doesn't lend itself as much for harass where you need concentrated burst damage in very specific areas.

They are both very comparable when it comes to dropping mineral lines, they both deal damage in .5 second intervals so it isnt any more bursty in BW. There are things that made BW storm feel much better though:
1) Shuttle dropping speed and HT that always had the energy to storm
2) The radius meant that workers near the edge still took more damage
3) Game speed
4) The fact that you couldnt select ALL of your workers with a single mouse drag to save them

I mean, if you buff storm damage or radius even a little in SC2, then storm drops would be OP and would always kill the entire mineral line if they were able to get out of the WP.

EDIT: Dont forget about the era of khaydarin amulet in SC2, storm drops were much more prevalent and were usually pretty good. The removal of that basically removed storm drops in SC2 from what I can tell.
squanzo
Profile Joined May 2011
68 Posts
May 29 2013 03:26 GMT
#617
I wasn't aware the most powerful race in the game with the most early game options needed more buffs, and more early game options.
m0nt
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia80 Posts
May 29 2013 03:26 GMT
#618
what they really need to do is make fixes for PvP and PvZ lol

one of the worst things about protoss is how if you're trying to play solid you can still drop games to people much worse than you, I think we need more skill based way to play defensive rather than just losing if your opponent does some stupid anti meta game build
semi-pro CS:GO player - http://www.youtube.com/user/meNtal2p
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11486 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-29 03:33:18
May 29 2013 03:31 GMT
#619
On May 29 2013 12:25 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 12:22 Falling wrote:
You can't just look at dps, you have to look at where the damge occurs. Front-loaded burst damage better allows units to be dropped off and picked up continually. Although I'm pretty sure that BW storms do more damage. But SC2 storms have been balanced around the ease of mass storms rather than balanced around burst damage on a couple storms. Easy carpet-bombing the entire screen needs the damage diffused to be balanced. But it doesn't lend itself as much for harass where you need concentrated burst damage in very specific areas.

They are both very comparable when it comes to dropping mineral lines, they both deal damage in .5 second intervals so it isnt any more bursty in BW. There are things that made BW storm feel much better though:
1) Shuttle dropping speed and HT that always had the energy to storm
2) The radius meant that workers near the edge still took more damage
3) Game speed
4) The fact that you couldnt select ALL of your workers with a single mouse drag to save them

I mean, if you buff storm damage or radius even a little in SC2, then storm drops would be OP and would always kill the entire mineral line if they were able to get out of the WP.

EDIT: Dont forget about the era of khaydarin amulet in SC2, storm drops were much more prevalent and were usually pretty good. The removal of that basically removed storm drops in SC2 from what I can tell.

I don't think storm drops becoming OP would be the problem. HT's are expensive (although with the rate of income in SC2, maybe losing 2HT isn't such a big deal) and you actually need to get the warpprism into the worker line. The opponent has a chance to pull workers or kill wp. And it's mid to late game harass, not early game timings. If anything, it would be a plus with more harass happening. In my opinion that is always a good thing.

The big problem would be back on the main battlefield because of smart-casting.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mar a Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
saddaromma
Profile Joined April 2013
1129 Posts
May 29 2013 03:31 GMT
#620
Can't seem to understand why people hating this change. Warp prisms are kinda underused, and buffing them won't make much difference. They need to be stationary to act like pylon, hence, easy to shoot down.
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