|
On May 14 2013 02:51 purecarnagge wrote:
I'm actually less likely to follow EG now. If IDRA posting some random crap on his fan club causes you to hate him then so be it. IDRA fans embrace the double edged sword and they realize sometimes it cuts the opponents sometimes it cuts him and sometimes it cuts the fans. In the end he's not mr corporate line he's Idra. He just tells you what he thinks and you can hate him for it love it or not care. If some random guy who is most likely never going to meet you effects you so much then you need to find a real life.
He does the work he doesn't get lazy then wonder why he doesn't produce. He did the korean enviorment and did as well as any foreigner has done in it if not better. you can learn more in 20 mins of watching him analyze his stream than you could watching other pro's streams for the entire evening.
I'm not saying people should do what he's done, but I'm just saying we knew what we were getting with IDRA and we were okay with that. Now your trying to say you aren't but the thing is you were okay with it for years... Honestly I think this just comes down to he doesn't get tournament results anymore and he's just a streaming revenue source for them. They just wanted a reason to opt out of the contract. Why is this incident so much bigger than his other ones?
And that is why I am no longer an EG fan. This was the guy who stayed up and watched him play in the early AM hours. This is the guy who had to know if Idra advanced. I was a huge EG fan. Because they had IDRA in the GSL!!!! now they are a shadow of there former selfs on the scene. Bunch of guys that were better on the teams they were on before they came to EG.
just for the record the best spot for IDRA would be back in Korea. What he does now is only up to him. He's a grinder, he needs to get back to that enviorment to flourish. Incontrols weakness was simply rubbing off on him like a posion these last few years... this is good for IDRA.
You're so uninformed about the situation that you're entire post seems completely irrelevant. Needless to say, I'll try and beat others on here to the punch with regards to informing you.
1. Idra stopped enjoying the game some time ago and does not want to play competitively anymore - he expressed that he was feeling this way before leaving EG.
2. Idra took full responsibility for his actions and stated that EG made the correct decision.
3. Incontrol and Idra are best friends and to suggest that you have any insight on their inter-personal relations is . . . "weird" to say the least haha.
4. Idra doesn't want to go back to Korea, as he's stated many, many, many times.
5. The "incident" is bigger than previous incidents, but it is also the accumulation of these incidents over the years reaching critical mass that forced EG and it's sponsors to make this decision.
The last part of you're post makes you appear to be a raging, Idra-obsessed basement dweller. Randomly accusing Idra's friend of "poisoning him with weakness" and then giving Greg your golden advice on what he should do for the rest of his career, so that it fits perfectly with your agenda? Ya, not sure that you're all "there" in the head.
|
On May 14 2013 02:51 purecarnagge wrote:
I'm actually less likely to follow EG now. If IDRA posting some random crap on his fan club causes you to hate him then so be it. IDRA fans embrace the double edged sword and they realize sometimes it cuts the opponents sometimes it cuts him and sometimes it cuts the fans. In the end he's not mr corporate line he's Idra. He just tells you what he thinks and you can hate him for it love it or not care. If some random guy who is most likely never going to meet you effects you so much then you need to find a real life.
He does the work he doesn't get lazy then wonder why he doesn't produce. He did the korean enviorment and did as well as any foreigner has done in it if not better. you can learn more in 20 mins of watching him analyze his stream than you could watching other pro's streams for the entire evening.
I'm not saying people should do what he's done, but I'm just saying we knew what we were getting with IDRA and we were okay with that. Now your trying to say you aren't but the thing is you were okay with it for years... Honestly I think this just comes down to he doesn't get tournament results anymore and he's just a streaming revenue source for them. They just wanted a reason to opt out of the contract. Why is this incident so much bigger than his other ones?
And that is why I am no longer an EG fan. This was the guy who stayed up and watched him play in the early AM hours. This is the guy who had to know if Idra advanced. I was a huge EG fan. Because they had IDRA in the GSL!!!! now they are a shadow of there former selfs on the scene. Bunch of guys that were better on the teams they were on before they came to EG.
just for the record the best spot for IDRA would be back in Korea. What he does now is only up to him. He's a grinder, he needs to get back to that enviorment to flourish. Incontrols weakness was simply rubbing off on him like a posion these last few years... this is good for IDRA.
I disagree - perhaps that is how I would have felt once , but as of now this decision makes me more of a fan of EG.
For a very long time Idra was nothing but some guy who streamed and raged and for me at least it hurt the image of EG.
it gave impression of being a team who cared nothing for performance and the actual game but only for the stream money they could gain from "entertainment" - which goes a lot against some of the other EG management decisions such as the korean house and coach Park etc.
I can't but agree with this decision.
|
On May 14 2013 02:55 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 02:43 farvacola wrote:On May 14 2013 02:16 Leporello wrote:
SC2 is not a sport.
This is why I don't like the term "e-sports". It's a game. Comparing it to WWE/professional wrestling? That's just wrong on several levels.
It's a game. Compare it to chess, we should compare it to chess, not professional wrestling. We don't need stupid drama and fake animosity from our "athletes" in order to make matches intriguing and entertaining. These aren't athletes, they're gamers. They're not tough, rather, they're smart. That's something we appreciate, which is why we watch SC2, instead of sports.
And Muhammed Ali was clever. He'd rhyme and banter in a way that was obviously for pure showmanship -- which is much different than raging at some random stranger in a videogame that IdrA is laddering against.
Don't compare IdrA to Muhammed Ali. Compare IdrA to Mike Tyson -- the man who wants to eat his competitor's babies and will chomp on their ears if he thinks his opponent is imba. Boxing's reputation suffered from Mike Tyson's disgusting behavior. SC2's reputation will likewise suffer if we put our most toxic players on pedestals, which we did quite well with IdrA.
Yes, characters are good. "Bad guys" can be fun. But there is a thin-line between showmanship and when things just become contrived and obnoxious. SC2 appeals to people's intellect more than any actual sport. The side-shows might work in sports, but in videogames it's just going to come off to your average person as pathetic. If you think boxing overall suffered from having a character like Mike Tyson in the spotlight, then you have absolutely no idea how boxing works and are ignoring ticket sales and viewership numbers from his era. In terms of hard numbers, both Tyson and Mayweather have been what has been keeping boxing alive in the face of the ever growing problems of judge misconduct, belt holder/title schism, and promoter money grubbing. Furthermore, you can claim that sc2 is intellectual all you want and none of that will change the fact that huge numbers of this games fans are hormonal young men who enjoy their jocular conflict and self aggrandizing competition. And that's all it will ever be? I remember seeing stadiums full of people of all ages, and both sexes, to watch Korean Broodwar. But I guess that's just not possible here. Here video-games -- or, excuse me, "e-sports" -- are purely for young men who enjoy jocular conflict (i.e. nerd-rages)? It seems you guys aren't arguing about what's best to make SC2 grow, but rather how best to maintain its status-quo.
That's not at all what I said, I'm merely pointing out that large numbers of Sc fans enjoy rather base conflicts alongside their game. And you've just pointed out one of the reasons why Sc is different here in the States; this is not Korea, and to point at the ubiquity of BW's popularity in Korea actually just further goes to show that NA's approach to enlarging the scene is going to have to be very different. Now whether or not that means supporting the likes of an Idra or a Naniwa grows the scene is still an open question, but pointing to Korea comes with its on host of comparison problems.
|
On May 14 2013 03:04 CrugerDK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 02:51 purecarnagge wrote:
I'm actually less likely to follow EG now. If IDRA posting some random crap on his fan club causes you to hate him then so be it. IDRA fans embrace the double edged sword and they realize sometimes it cuts the opponents sometimes it cuts him and sometimes it cuts the fans. In the end he's not mr corporate line he's Idra. He just tells you what he thinks and you can hate him for it love it or not care. If some random guy who is most likely never going to meet you effects you so much then you need to find a real life.
He does the work he doesn't get lazy then wonder why he doesn't produce. He did the korean enviorment and did as well as any foreigner has done in it if not better. you can learn more in 20 mins of watching him analyze his stream than you could watching other pro's streams for the entire evening.
I'm not saying people should do what he's done, but I'm just saying we knew what we were getting with IDRA and we were okay with that. Now your trying to say you aren't but the thing is you were okay with it for years... Honestly I think this just comes down to he doesn't get tournament results anymore and he's just a streaming revenue source for them. They just wanted a reason to opt out of the contract. Why is this incident so much bigger than his other ones?
And that is why I am no longer an EG fan. This was the guy who stayed up and watched him play in the early AM hours. This is the guy who had to know if Idra advanced. I was a huge EG fan. Because they had IDRA in the GSL!!!! now they are a shadow of there former selfs on the scene. Bunch of guys that were better on the teams they were on before they came to EG.
just for the record the best spot for IDRA would be back in Korea. What he does now is only up to him. He's a grinder, he needs to get back to that enviorment to flourish. Incontrols weakness was simply rubbing off on him like a posion these last few years... this is good for IDRA.
I disagree - perhaps that is how I would have felt once , but as of now this decision makes me more of a fan of EG. For a very long time Idra was nothing but some guy who streamed and raged and for me at least it hurt the image of EG. it gave impression of being a team who cared nothing for performance and the actual game but only for the stream money they could gain from "entertainment" - which goes a lot against some of the other EG management decisions such as the korean house and coach Park etc. I can't but agree with this decision.
And IdrA basically created this conflict all himself. IdrA got fired for saying what many people in this thread are saying -- that pandering entertainment is more profitable than legitimate competition will ever be. I give definite kudos to EG for being high-minded enough to actually take that notion to task.
|
On May 14 2013 02:50 Fat_Elephant wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 02:25 LingBlingBling wrote:On May 14 2013 02:16 Leporello wrote:
SC2 is not a sport.
This is why I don't like the term "e-sports". It's a game. Comparing it to WWE/professional wrestling? That's just wrong on several levels.
It's a game. Compare it to chess, we should compare it to chess, not professional wrestling. We don't need stupid drama and fake animosity from our "athletes" in order to make matches intriguing and entertaining. These aren't athletes, they're gamers. They're not tough, rather, they're smart. That's something we appreciate, which is why we watch SC2, instead of sports.
And Muhammed Ali was clever. He'd rhyme and banter in a way that was obviously for pure showmanship -- which is much different than raging at some random stranger in a videogame that IdrA is laddering against.
Don't compare IdrA to Muhammed Ali. Compare IdrA to Mike Tyson -- the man who wants to eat his competitor's babies and will chomp on their ears if he thinks his opponent is imba. Boxing's reputation suffered from Mike Tyson's disgusting behavior. SC2's reputation will suffer if we put our most toxic players on pedestals, which we did quite well with IdrA. ....... Baseball is a game to, it is also a sport. You should prob take the time to look up the word sport and understand what it means. Sc2 is a sport. You can make a living off it, there is a a insane competitive cult following played at a high lvl "sport" An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others. Sure does seem like sc2 follows the meaning of the word "sport" sigh. Football is more fake to me, then sc2, football is more about marketing then skill, (I mean American football no soccer) Football has more actors/story lines/advertisements/marketing then sc2. Sc2 is just like Athletic sports. Are you serious? You bid for the idea StarCraft is a sport, look up its definition which contradicts it, then say plainly it follows that definition? Yikes.
Starcraft requires physical exertion. Chess was classified as an sport by the Olympic Committee in 1999.
|
On May 14 2013 02:16 Leporello wrote:
SC2 is not a sport.
This is why I don't like the term "e-sports". It's a game. Comparing it to WWE/professional wrestling? That's just wrong on several levels.
It's a game. Compare it to chess, we should compare it to chess, not professional wrestling.
Did you just seriously claimed that chess is not a sport?
|
On May 14 2013 03:03 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 02:51 purecarnagge wrote:
I'm actually less likely to follow EG now. If IDRA posting some random crap on his fan club causes you to hate him then so be it. IDRA fans embrace the double edged sword and they realize sometimes it cuts the opponents sometimes it cuts him and sometimes it cuts the fans. In the end he's not mr corporate line he's Idra. He just tells you what he thinks and you can hate him for it love it or not care. If some random guy who is most likely never going to meet you effects you so much then you need to find a real life.
He does the work he doesn't get lazy then wonder why he doesn't produce. He did the korean enviorment and did as well as any foreigner has done in it if not better. you can learn more in 20 mins of watching him analyze his stream than you could watching other pro's streams for the entire evening.
I'm not saying people should do what he's done, but I'm just saying we knew what we were getting with IDRA and we were okay with that. Now your trying to say you aren't but the thing is you were okay with it for years... Honestly I think this just comes down to he doesn't get tournament results anymore and he's just a streaming revenue source for them. They just wanted a reason to opt out of the contract. Why is this incident so much bigger than his other ones?
And that is why I am no longer an EG fan. This was the guy who stayed up and watched him play in the early AM hours. This is the guy who had to know if Idra advanced. I was a huge EG fan. Because they had IDRA in the GSL!!!! now they are a shadow of there former selfs on the scene. Bunch of guys that were better on the teams they were on before they came to EG.
just for the record the best spot for IDRA would be back in Korea. What he does now is only up to him. He's a grinder, he needs to get back to that enviorment to flourish. Incontrols weakness was simply rubbing off on him like a posion these last few years... this is good for IDRA.
You're so uninformed about the situation that you're entire post seems completely irrelevant. Needless to say, I'll try and beat others on here to the punch with regards to informing you. 1. Idra stopped enjoying the game some time ago and does not want to play competitively anymore - he expressed that he was feeling this way before leaving EG. 2. Idra took full responsibility for his actions and stated that EG made the correct decision. 3. Incontrol and Idra are best friends and to suggest that you have any insight on their inter-personal relations is . . . "weird" to say the least haha. 4. Idra doesn't want to go back to Korea, as he's stated many, many, many times. 5. The "incident" is bigger than previous incidents, but it is also the accumulation of these incidents over the years reaching critical mass that forced EG and it's sponsors to make this decision. The last part of you're post makes you appear to be a raging, Idra-obsessed basement dweller. Randomly accusing Idra's friend of "poisoning him with weakness" and then giving Greg your golden advice on what he should do for the rest of his career, so that it fits perfectly with your agenda? Ya, not sure that you're all "there" in the head.
1. Idra stopped enjoying the game before BETA was over...your point...
2. he said it was wrong, and it was. But its not like he hasn't done something wrong before and apologized for it.
3. Incontrol is a very bad pro player. The fact that people consider him a pro, is a joke. He's a caster, community figure. the fact that people believe that Incontrol still plays at a pro level based on his performances is lying to themselves. Just because your friends doesn't mean its good for your career.
4. I said it would be best for him to go back to Korea. That is if he wanted to continue his esports career.
5. The incident could have easily been downplayed and forgotten for the most part in weeks after... simply give them something new to talk about. EG is very good at theatrics... well not very good but they understand it.
|
On May 14 2013 03:06 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 02:55 Leporello wrote:On May 14 2013 02:43 farvacola wrote:On May 14 2013 02:16 Leporello wrote:
SC2 is not a sport.
This is why I don't like the term "e-sports". It's a game. Comparing it to WWE/professional wrestling? That's just wrong on several levels.
It's a game. Compare it to chess, we should compare it to chess, not professional wrestling. We don't need stupid drama and fake animosity from our "athletes" in order to make matches intriguing and entertaining. These aren't athletes, they're gamers. They're not tough, rather, they're smart. That's something we appreciate, which is why we watch SC2, instead of sports.
And Muhammed Ali was clever. He'd rhyme and banter in a way that was obviously for pure showmanship -- which is much different than raging at some random stranger in a videogame that IdrA is laddering against.
Don't compare IdrA to Muhammed Ali. Compare IdrA to Mike Tyson -- the man who wants to eat his competitor's babies and will chomp on their ears if he thinks his opponent is imba. Boxing's reputation suffered from Mike Tyson's disgusting behavior. SC2's reputation will likewise suffer if we put our most toxic players on pedestals, which we did quite well with IdrA.
Yes, characters are good. "Bad guys" can be fun. But there is a thin-line between showmanship and when things just become contrived and obnoxious. SC2 appeals to people's intellect more than any actual sport. The side-shows might work in sports, but in videogames it's just going to come off to your average person as pathetic. If you think boxing overall suffered from having a character like Mike Tyson in the spotlight, then you have absolutely no idea how boxing works and are ignoring ticket sales and viewership numbers from his era. In terms of hard numbers, both Tyson and Mayweather have been what has been keeping boxing alive in the face of the ever growing problems of judge misconduct, belt holder/title schism, and promoter money grubbing. Furthermore, you can claim that sc2 is intellectual all you want and none of that will change the fact that huge numbers of this games fans are hormonal young men who enjoy their jocular conflict and self aggrandizing competition. And that's all it will ever be? I remember seeing stadiums full of people of all ages, and both sexes, to watch Korean Broodwar. But I guess that's just not possible here. Here video-games -- or, excuse me, "e-sports" -- are purely for young men who enjoy jocular conflict (i.e. nerd-rages)? It seems you guys aren't arguing about what's best to make SC2 grow, but rather how best to maintain its status-quo. That's not at all what I said, I'm merely pointing out that large numbers of Sc fans enjoy rather base conflicts alongside their game. And you've just pointed out one of the reasons why Sc is different here in the States; this is not Korea, and to point at the ubiquity of BW's popularity in Korea actually just further goes to show that NA's approach to enlarging the scene is going to have to be very different. Now whether or not that means supporting the likes of an Idra or a Naniwa grows the scene is still an open question, but pointing to Korea comes with its on host of comparison problems.
I agree that we're different cultures and can not simply copy what Korea did. Not even close. I'm kind of going on tangents here, so I'm sorry for that.
My main point is that to see competitive video-games be taken more seriously as a whole, in our culture, there are stereotypes that we really need to fight against, and IdrA was simply affirming those stereotypes. I don't think that's good for the scene's growth -- despite how much the scene itself may enjoy it.
Hell, I'll admit to being actively engaged here, but I was already a SC2 fan. The young male nerds like myself aren't the ones we need to win over. SC2 has such real, substantial depth to it, that I genuinely feel it can draw in viewers who would never think of watching competitive video-games. But IdrA would be the last player I would show someone to introduce them to this game. That's the point I was ultimately trying to get at.
|
On May 14 2013 03:13 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 02:16 Leporello wrote:
SC2 is not a sport.
This is why I don't like the term "e-sports". It's a game. Comparing it to WWE/professional wrestling? That's just wrong on several levels.
It's a game. Compare it to chess, we should compare it to chess, not professional wrestling. Did you just seriously claimed that chess is not a sport?
I, myself, and many others, will never call chess a sport. I respect it too much. It's a game, played with the mind. Absolutely no physicality is required, and that's to its credit.
SC2 is more of a sport than chess, as it does require very nimble control and dexterity.
But I'd still rather call it a game. To me it's much more a mental battle than a physical battle. It's just a personal distinction, really.
|
Props to EG for their decision. I'm a huge IdrA fan, but they handled it in the best possible way.
|
On May 14 2013 03:15 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 03:06 farvacola wrote:On May 14 2013 02:55 Leporello wrote:On May 14 2013 02:43 farvacola wrote:On May 14 2013 02:16 Leporello wrote:
SC2 is not a sport.
This is why I don't like the term "e-sports". It's a game. Comparing it to WWE/professional wrestling? That's just wrong on several levels.
It's a game. Compare it to chess, we should compare it to chess, not professional wrestling. We don't need stupid drama and fake animosity from our "athletes" in order to make matches intriguing and entertaining. These aren't athletes, they're gamers. They're not tough, rather, they're smart. That's something we appreciate, which is why we watch SC2, instead of sports.
And Muhammed Ali was clever. He'd rhyme and banter in a way that was obviously for pure showmanship -- which is much different than raging at some random stranger in a videogame that IdrA is laddering against.
Don't compare IdrA to Muhammed Ali. Compare IdrA to Mike Tyson -- the man who wants to eat his competitor's babies and will chomp on their ears if he thinks his opponent is imba. Boxing's reputation suffered from Mike Tyson's disgusting behavior. SC2's reputation will likewise suffer if we put our most toxic players on pedestals, which we did quite well with IdrA.
Yes, characters are good. "Bad guys" can be fun. But there is a thin-line between showmanship and when things just become contrived and obnoxious. SC2 appeals to people's intellect more than any actual sport. The side-shows might work in sports, but in videogames it's just going to come off to your average person as pathetic. If you think boxing overall suffered from having a character like Mike Tyson in the spotlight, then you have absolutely no idea how boxing works and are ignoring ticket sales and viewership numbers from his era. In terms of hard numbers, both Tyson and Mayweather have been what has been keeping boxing alive in the face of the ever growing problems of judge misconduct, belt holder/title schism, and promoter money grubbing. Furthermore, you can claim that sc2 is intellectual all you want and none of that will change the fact that huge numbers of this games fans are hormonal young men who enjoy their jocular conflict and self aggrandizing competition. And that's all it will ever be? I remember seeing stadiums full of people of all ages, and both sexes, to watch Korean Broodwar. But I guess that's just not possible here. Here video-games -- or, excuse me, "e-sports" -- are purely for young men who enjoy jocular conflict (i.e. nerd-rages)? It seems you guys aren't arguing about what's best to make SC2 grow, but rather how best to maintain its status-quo. That's not at all what I said, I'm merely pointing out that large numbers of Sc fans enjoy rather base conflicts alongside their game. And you've just pointed out one of the reasons why Sc is different here in the States; this is not Korea, and to point at the ubiquity of BW's popularity in Korea actually just further goes to show that NA's approach to enlarging the scene is going to have to be very different. Now whether or not that means supporting the likes of an Idra or a Naniwa grows the scene is still an open question, but pointing to Korea comes with its on host of comparison problems. I agree that we're different cultures and can not simply copy what Korea did. Not even close. I'm kind of going on tangents here, so I'm sorry for that. My main point is that to see competitive video-games be taken more seriously as a whole, in our culture, there are stereotypes that we really need to fight against, and IdrA was simply affirming those stereotypes. I don't think that's good for the scene's growth -- despite how much the scene itself may enjoy it. Hell, I'll admit to being actively engaged here, but I was already a SC2 fan. The young male nerds like myself aren't the ones we need to win over. SC2 has such real, substantial depth to it, that I genuinely feel it can draw in viewers who would never think of watching competitive video-games. But IdrA would be the last player I would show someone to introduce them to this game. That's the point I was ultimately trying to get at.
That much I agree with, and that's why I'd always introduce the layman to Sc with Day9 or Incontrol or Artosis instead of Idra 
I think the scene needs the full spectrum to be frank.
|
On May 14 2013 03:15 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 03:06 farvacola wrote:On May 14 2013 02:55 Leporello wrote:On May 14 2013 02:43 farvacola wrote:On May 14 2013 02:16 Leporello wrote:
SC2 is not a sport.
This is why I don't like the term "e-sports". It's a game. Comparing it to WWE/professional wrestling? That's just wrong on several levels.
It's a game. Compare it to chess, we should compare it to chess, not professional wrestling. We don't need stupid drama and fake animosity from our "athletes" in order to make matches intriguing and entertaining. These aren't athletes, they're gamers. They're not tough, rather, they're smart. That's something we appreciate, which is why we watch SC2, instead of sports.
And Muhammed Ali was clever. He'd rhyme and banter in a way that was obviously for pure showmanship -- which is much different than raging at some random stranger in a videogame that IdrA is laddering against.
Don't compare IdrA to Muhammed Ali. Compare IdrA to Mike Tyson -- the man who wants to eat his competitor's babies and will chomp on their ears if he thinks his opponent is imba. Boxing's reputation suffered from Mike Tyson's disgusting behavior. SC2's reputation will likewise suffer if we put our most toxic players on pedestals, which we did quite well with IdrA.
Yes, characters are good. "Bad guys" can be fun. But there is a thin-line between showmanship and when things just become contrived and obnoxious. SC2 appeals to people's intellect more than any actual sport. The side-shows might work in sports, but in videogames it's just going to come off to your average person as pathetic. If you think boxing overall suffered from having a character like Mike Tyson in the spotlight, then you have absolutely no idea how boxing works and are ignoring ticket sales and viewership numbers from his era. In terms of hard numbers, both Tyson and Mayweather have been what has been keeping boxing alive in the face of the ever growing problems of judge misconduct, belt holder/title schism, and promoter money grubbing. Furthermore, you can claim that sc2 is intellectual all you want and none of that will change the fact that huge numbers of this games fans are hormonal young men who enjoy their jocular conflict and self aggrandizing competition. And that's all it will ever be? I remember seeing stadiums full of people of all ages, and both sexes, to watch Korean Broodwar. But I guess that's just not possible here. Here video-games -- or, excuse me, "e-sports" -- are purely for young men who enjoy jocular conflict (i.e. nerd-rages)? It seems you guys aren't arguing about what's best to make SC2 grow, but rather how best to maintain its status-quo. That's not at all what I said, I'm merely pointing out that large numbers of Sc fans enjoy rather base conflicts alongside their game. And you've just pointed out one of the reasons why Sc is different here in the States; this is not Korea, and to point at the ubiquity of BW's popularity in Korea actually just further goes to show that NA's approach to enlarging the scene is going to have to be very different. Now whether or not that means supporting the likes of an Idra or a Naniwa grows the scene is still an open question, but pointing to Korea comes with its on host of comparison problems. I agree that we're different cultures and can not simply copy what Korea did. Not even close. I'm kind of going on tangents here, so I'm sorry for that. My main point is that to see competitive video-games be taken more seriously as a whole, in our culture, there are stereotypes that we really need to fight against, and IdrA was simply affirming those stereotypes. I don't think that's good for the scene's growth -- despite how much the scene itself may enjoy it. Hell, I'll admit to being actively engaged here, but I was already a SC2 fan. The young male nerds like myself aren't the ones we need to win over. SC2 has such real, substantial depth to it, that I genuinely feel it can draw in viewers who would never think of watching competitive video-games. But IdrA would be the last player I would show someone to introduce them to this game. That's the point I was ultimately trying to get at.
The other side of this is of course that a huge part of the community goes "omg I didn't know he was so well spoken" every time he gives an interview. Personally I'd gladly show those around (and have). Thing about stereotypes is also that you see what you want to see.
|
On May 14 2013 03:11 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 02:50 Fat_Elephant wrote:On May 14 2013 02:25 LingBlingBling wrote:On May 14 2013 02:16 Leporello wrote:
SC2 is not a sport.
This is why I don't like the term "e-sports". It's a game. Comparing it to WWE/professional wrestling? That's just wrong on several levels.
It's a game. Compare it to chess, we should compare it to chess, not professional wrestling. We don't need stupid drama and fake animosity from our "athletes" in order to make matches intriguing and entertaining. These aren't athletes, they're gamers. They're not tough, rather, they're smart. That's something we appreciate, which is why we watch SC2, instead of sports.
And Muhammed Ali was clever. He'd rhyme and banter in a way that was obviously for pure showmanship -- which is much different than raging at some random stranger in a videogame that IdrA is laddering against.
Don't compare IdrA to Muhammed Ali. Compare IdrA to Mike Tyson -- the man who wants to eat his competitor's babies and will chomp on their ears if he thinks his opponent is imba. Boxing's reputation suffered from Mike Tyson's disgusting behavior. SC2's reputation will suffer if we put our most toxic players on pedestals, which we did quite well with IdrA. ....... Baseball is a game to, it is also a sport. You should prob take the time to look up the word sport and understand what it means. Sc2 is a sport. You can make a living off it, there is a a insane competitive cult following played at a high lvl "sport" An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others. Sure does seem like sc2 follows the meaning of the word "sport" sigh. Football is more fake to me, then sc2, football is more about marketing then skill, (I mean American football no soccer) Football has more actors/story lines/advertisements/marketing then sc2. Sc2 is just like Athletic sports. Are you serious? You bid for the idea StarCraft is a sport, look up its definition which contradicts it, then say plainly it follows that definition? Yikes. Starcraft requires physical exertion. Chess was classified as an sport by the Olympic Committee in 1999.
Watching TV requires physical exertion. It is a sport.
|
On May 14 2013 03:35 Fat_Elephant wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 03:11 SCST wrote:On May 14 2013 02:50 Fat_Elephant wrote:On May 14 2013 02:25 LingBlingBling wrote:On May 14 2013 02:16 Leporello wrote:
SC2 is not a sport.
This is why I don't like the term "e-sports". It's a game. Comparing it to WWE/professional wrestling? That's just wrong on several levels.
It's a game. Compare it to chess, we should compare it to chess, not professional wrestling. We don't need stupid drama and fake animosity from our "athletes" in order to make matches intriguing and entertaining. These aren't athletes, they're gamers. They're not tough, rather, they're smart. That's something we appreciate, which is why we watch SC2, instead of sports.
And Muhammed Ali was clever. He'd rhyme and banter in a way that was obviously for pure showmanship -- which is much different than raging at some random stranger in a videogame that IdrA is laddering against.
Don't compare IdrA to Muhammed Ali. Compare IdrA to Mike Tyson -- the man who wants to eat his competitor's babies and will chomp on their ears if he thinks his opponent is imba. Boxing's reputation suffered from Mike Tyson's disgusting behavior. SC2's reputation will suffer if we put our most toxic players on pedestals, which we did quite well with IdrA. ....... Baseball is a game to, it is also a sport. You should prob take the time to look up the word sport and understand what it means. Sc2 is a sport. You can make a living off it, there is a a insane competitive cult following played at a high lvl "sport" An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others. Sure does seem like sc2 follows the meaning of the word "sport" sigh. Football is more fake to me, then sc2, football is more about marketing then skill, (I mean American football no soccer) Football has more actors/story lines/advertisements/marketing then sc2. Sc2 is just like Athletic sports. Are you serious? You bid for the idea StarCraft is a sport, look up its definition which contradicts it, then say plainly it follows that definition? Yikes. Starcraft requires physical exertion. Chess was classified as an sport by the Olympic Committee in 1999. Watching TV requires physical exertion. It is a sport.
No need to be a bad troll. You missed the part about competing. Competing AND physical exertion make a sport.
|
On May 14 2013 03:16 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 03:13 Assirra wrote:On May 14 2013 02:16 Leporello wrote:
SC2 is not a sport.
This is why I don't like the term "e-sports". It's a game. Comparing it to WWE/professional wrestling? That's just wrong on several levels.
It's a game. Compare it to chess, we should compare it to chess, not professional wrestling. Did you just seriously claimed that chess is not a sport? I, myself, and many others, will never call chess a sport. I respect it too much. It's a game, played with the mind. Absolutely no physicality is required, and that's to its credit. SC2 is more of a sport than chess, as it does require very nimble control and dexterity. But I'd still rather call it a game. To me it's much more a mental battle than a physical battle. It's just a personal distinction, really.
Definition: (source: EN wikipedia)
Definition
See also: Game#Definitions
Show Jumping, an equestrian sport
The precise definition of what separates a sport from other leisure activities varies between sources, with no universally agreed definition. The closest to an international agreement on a definition is provided by SportAccord, which is the association for all the largest international sports federations (including association football, athletics, cycling, tennis, equestrian sports and more), and is therefore the de facto representative of international sport.
SportAccord uses the following criteria, determining that a sport should:[1]
- have an element of competition
- be in no way harmful to any living creature
- not rely on equipment provided by a single supplier (excluding proprietary games such as arena football)
- not rely on any "luck" element specifically designed into the sport
They also recognise that sport can be primarily physical (such as rugby or athletics), primarily mind (such as chess or go), predominantly motorised (such as Formula 1 or powerboating), primarily co-ordination (such as billiard sports), or primarily animal supported (such as equestrian sport).[1]
There has been an increase in the application of the term "sport" to a wider set of non-physical challenges such as electronic sports, especially due to the large scale of participation and organised competition, but these are not widely recognised by mainstream sports organisations.
Starcraft definately fits into this.
|
On May 14 2013 03:42 JackDragon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 03:35 Fat_Elephant wrote:On May 14 2013 03:11 SCST wrote:On May 14 2013 02:50 Fat_Elephant wrote:On May 14 2013 02:25 LingBlingBling wrote:On May 14 2013 02:16 Leporello wrote:
SC2 is not a sport.
This is why I don't like the term "e-sports". It's a game. Comparing it to WWE/professional wrestling? That's just wrong on several levels.
It's a game. Compare it to chess, we should compare it to chess, not professional wrestling. We don't need stupid drama and fake animosity from our "athletes" in order to make matches intriguing and entertaining. These aren't athletes, they're gamers. They're not tough, rather, they're smart. That's something we appreciate, which is why we watch SC2, instead of sports.
And Muhammed Ali was clever. He'd rhyme and banter in a way that was obviously for pure showmanship -- which is much different than raging at some random stranger in a videogame that IdrA is laddering against.
Don't compare IdrA to Muhammed Ali. Compare IdrA to Mike Tyson -- the man who wants to eat his competitor's babies and will chomp on their ears if he thinks his opponent is imba. Boxing's reputation suffered from Mike Tyson's disgusting behavior. SC2's reputation will suffer if we put our most toxic players on pedestals, which we did quite well with IdrA. ....... Baseball is a game to, it is also a sport. You should prob take the time to look up the word sport and understand what it means. Sc2 is a sport. You can make a living off it, there is a a insane competitive cult following played at a high lvl "sport" An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others. Sure does seem like sc2 follows the meaning of the word "sport" sigh. Football is more fake to me, then sc2, football is more about marketing then skill, (I mean American football no soccer) Football has more actors/story lines/advertisements/marketing then sc2. Sc2 is just like Athletic sports. Are you serious? You bid for the idea StarCraft is a sport, look up its definition which contradicts it, then say plainly it follows that definition? Yikes. Starcraft requires physical exertion. Chess was classified as an sport by the Olympic Committee in 1999. Watching TV requires physical exertion. It is a sport. No need to be a bad troll. You missed the part about competing. Competing AND physical exertion make a sport.
not that he would know anything about competing
|
I understand why EG did this, but I still think it was a mistake not using him in some capacity in the community.
I personally hope the uses this opportunity to switch race. It might give him a refreshing new take on the game, and he does not have to deal with the direct pressure to complete.
I would also be an awesome journey for the viewers. Just my 10 cent on the future.
|
Haie guyz if we get more skinny white nerds typing insults into their keyboard we'll attract more viewers kakaka
|
On May 14 2013 04:02 Doodsmack wrote:
Haie guyz if we get more skinny white nerds typing insults into their keyboard we'll attract more viewers kakaka
IdrA is pretty jacked for a "skinny white nerd", haven't you seen him?
|
On May 14 2013 04:13 CeriseCherries wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 04:02 Doodsmack wrote:
Haie guyz if we get more skinny white nerds typing insults into their keyboard we'll attract more viewers kakaka IdrA is pretty jacked for a "skinny white nerd", haven't you seen him?
You pay attention to the physiques of eSports players?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
