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On May 13 2013 21:18 TychusFindlaylol wrote:
so far gamers are just a bunch of boring nerds nobody pays attention to. If we can show the world we are more than that. and that we can actually entertain the masses with the drama and rage, then we could make it to national TV shows and compete with the top sport industries of America.
This is such a misguided hypothesis. Masses that are entertained by drama and rage already have the kind of shows they enjoy delivered to them on national TV. These masses are also highly unlikely to follow a show that fundamentally displays kids playing video games with space marines and bugs, no matter the amount of drama they create.
The fundamental activity that is being shown (gaming) is something that is inherently considered, for the lack of a better word, nerdy. When NBA or UFC athletes trash talk one another, it has some appeal and credibility due to the dynamic and physical nature of the sport they compete in. That is why it draws people in. When gamers behave the same way, it only strengthens the angry gamer kid stereotype that appeals to a very limited audience at best.
Honestly I'm not even sure it has any genuine appeal, as most people seem to like it only because they either think it's a good way to promote esports to the mainstream media, or because they take some sort of weird pleasure in seeing gamers angry and frustrated (ie. schadenfreude).
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NO FUCKING WAY!!!
Idra? Idra the CJ Guy? The BW legend? The face of EG?
How? I don't even think this is possible. HOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW??? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY???
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On May 13 2013 22:02 Aim Here wrote:
At the risk of derailing all this anti-EG and/or anti-Idra angst with something positive, seems that Idra will likely start his new casting career by cocasting the next round of ShoutCraft USA with Totalbiscuit, of all people!
Given that they've criticized each other in the past (and the community has invented some drama where none existed too, for good measure!) this should be interesting - Idra did a really good job casting with Jason Lee, who was far more of a Starcraft novice than TB is, in one of the early GSLs, so I reckon this could work fairly well, at least on the part of the casters. How the community reacts is a different matter, given how both personalities seem to provoke a fairly toxic reaction among some vocal Starcraft fans. We'll see!
Link:
Quit derailing the thread you fuck! 
Cool. Will definitely be tuning in.
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I used to be a huge Idra fan, but his personality and attitude really wore down on me. Best of luck to him in the future.
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Not a bad move by Genna to take advantage of the fact idra is currently still popular and now unemployed.
This whole situation just somewhat goes to prove how young esports still is. Both in players learning how to properly represent themselves and that even a large team like EG that gets to turn away some sponsors, still isn't big enough to ignore all sponsor demands. Versus say an NFL where some players openly hate fans, have been in prision, etc. but they get away with it because no sponsor turns a blind eye to the amount of eyeballs glued to it still.
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On May 13 2013 22:15 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 21:18 TychusFindlaylol wrote:
so far gamers are just a bunch of boring nerds nobody pays attention to. If we can show the world we are more than that. and that we can actually entertain the masses with the drama and rage, then we could make it to national TV shows and compete with the top sport industries of America. This is such a misguided hypothesis. Masses that are entertained by drama and rage already have the kind of shows they enjoy delivered to them on national TV. These masses are also highly unlikely to follow a show that fundamentally displays kids playing video games with space marines and bugs, no matter the amount of drama they create. The fundamental activity that is being shown (gaming) is something that is inherently considered, for the lack of a better word, nerdy. When NBA or UFC athletes trash talk one another, it has some appeal and credibility due to the dynamic and physical nature of the sport they compete in. That is why it draws people in. When gamers behave the same way, it only strengthens the angry gamer kid stereotype that appeals to a very limited audience at best. Honestly I'm not even sure it has any genuine appeal, as most people seem to like it only because they either think it's a good way to promote esports to the mainstream media, or because they take some sort of weird pleasure in seeing gamers angry and frustrated (ie. schadenfreude).
The bolded part comes up now and again, but can't be said enough.
The reason why the esports community is so insular is partly because of negative stereotypes around gaming. The average people don't associate or compare SC2 or CoD players with NBA players — they compare it to nerd fetishes like LARPing and DnD.
If anyone that thinks calling people a nigger or faggot or wishing death about people through in-game chat give the game 'personality, or makes players look 'badass', they're grossly mistaken.
It makes them look like hyperventilating, angry nerds on the internet, that need to duck and cover behind the anonymity and detachment of a computer screen in order to pick a fight. *
* A stereotype that is mostly true, by the way. The idea that skinny runts like Destiny or Orb would have the nerve to say half the things they were caught saying to players online to people's faces is fucking laughable.
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Switzerland2431 Posts
On May 13 2013 22:15 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 21:18 TychusFindlaylol wrote:
so far gamers are just a bunch of boring nerds nobody pays attention to. If we can show the world we are more than that. and that we can actually entertain the masses with the drama and rage, then we could make it to national TV shows and compete with the top sport industries of America. This is such a misguided hypothesis. Masses that are entertained by drama and rage already have the kind of shows they enjoy delivered to them on national TV. These masses are also highly unlikely to follow a show that fundamentally displays kids playing video games with space marines and bugs, no matter the amount of drama they create. The fundamental activity that is being shown (gaming) is something that is inherently considered, for the lack of a better word, nerdy. When NBA or UFC athletes trash talk one another, it has some appeal and credibility due to the dynamic and physical nature of the sport they compete in. That is why it draws people in. When gamers behave the same way, it only strengthens the angry gamer kid stereotype that appeals to a very limited audience at best. Honestly I'm not even sure it has any genuine appeal, as most people seem to like it only because they either think it's a good way to promote esports to the mainstream media, or because they take some sort of weird pleasure in seeing gamers angry and frustrated (ie. schadenfreude).
I think it's one thing to insult somebody and then switch to ignorance and another to trash talk and then fight it out in a BO7. Which should be what the community should demand from anyone who runs his mouth. I'm perfectly fine with a player insulting someone but put your money where your mouth is and proof you are better or shut the fuck.
If you simply insult for the sake of insulting what is there to be taken out from? That's exactly what people criticise about IdrA and why they didn't for a long time in the past. Because he insulted people but was at the same time one of the best players in the world.
The competition should be the most purest and rawest form of why everyone is involved. And not the laughing at the kid who gets angry when pushed to the limit.
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On May 14 2013 00:37 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 22:15 Talin wrote:On May 13 2013 21:18 TychusFindlaylol wrote:
so far gamers are just a bunch of boring nerds nobody pays attention to. If we can show the world we are more than that. and that we can actually entertain the masses with the drama and rage, then we could make it to national TV shows and compete with the top sport industries of America. This is such a misguided hypothesis. Masses that are entertained by drama and rage already have the kind of shows they enjoy delivered to them on national TV. These masses are also highly unlikely to follow a show that fundamentally displays kids playing video games with space marines and bugs, no matter the amount of drama they create. The fundamental activity that is being shown (gaming) is something that is inherently considered, for the lack of a better word, nerdy. When NBA or UFC athletes trash talk one another, it has some appeal and credibility due to the dynamic and physical nature of the sport they compete in. That is why it draws people in. When gamers behave the same way, it only strengthens the angry gamer kid stereotype that appeals to a very limited audience at best. Honestly I'm not even sure it has any genuine appeal, as most people seem to like it only because they either think it's a good way to promote esports to the mainstream media, or because they take some sort of weird pleasure in seeing gamers angry and frustrated (ie. schadenfreude). The bolded part comes up now and again, but can't be said enough. The reason why the esports community is so insular is partly because of negative stereotypes around gaming. The average people don't associate or compare SC2 or CoD players with NBA players — they compare it to nerd fetishes like LARPing and DnD. If anyone that thinks calling people a nigger or faggot or wishing death about people through in-game chat give the game 'personality, or makes players look 'badass', they're grossly mistaken. It makes them look like hyperventilating, angry nerds on the internet, that need to duck and cover behind the anonymity and detachment of a computer screen in order to pick a fight. * * A stereotype that is mostly true, by the way. The idea that skinny runts like Destiny or Orb would have the nerve to say half the things they were caught saying to players online to people's faces is fucking laughable.
Agree completely. Said similar things myself although I usually find myself getting replies like "grow up" lol. I have to admit at times I have been an ass myself in online games and said some stupid shit. Difference is I can recognize that in all honesty I was behaving like a complete ass, others seem to fail to make that distinction.
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On May 13 2013 22:28 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 22:02 Aim Here wrote:At the risk of derailing all this anti-EG and/or anti-Idra angst with something positive, seems that Idra will likely start his new casting career by cocasting the next round of ShoutCraft USA with Totalbiscuit, of all people! Given that they've criticized each other in the past (and the community has invented some drama where none existed too, for good measure!) this should be interesting - Idra did a really good job casting with Jason Lee, who was far more of a Starcraft novice than TB is, in one of the early GSLs, so I reckon this could work fairly well, at least on the part of the casters. How the community reacts is a different matter, given how both personalities seem to provoke a fairly toxic reaction among some vocal Starcraft fans. We'll see! Link: https://twitter.com/GennaBain/status/333925135503458304 Quit derailing the thread you fuck! Cool. Will definitely be tuning in.
I can't wait for the day Idra fans 'reclaim' the noun fuck, and demand to be called 'the fucks' as a group :D
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I personally didn't enjoy Idra and the personality he presented with all the BM and rude comments but with the ton of attention he has received lately its obvious he is still relevant to the SC2 community. He's polarizing but he gets viewers so he should run with it.
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On May 13 2013 21:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
'so far gamers are just a bunch of boring nerds nobody pays attention to. ' - And your solution to this issue is to do what? Not punish Idra and allow him to perpetuate all the worst nerdrage stereotypes?
I never said that was the solution because I never said the other was a problem. I only acknowledge the current situation of esports and this community. Only gamers watch other gamers play, and I know some mediocres are just happy with what they have now. However, this is not my case. I want this to evolve into something bigger and compete with the biggest entertainment industries we see today. We need to make this appealing to the masses, not just a small community if we want to take this to the next level.
Also, what's wrong about the nerdrage and the BM? That's what really sells in this world along with sex. Take a look at boxing and WWE exploiting this. Just look at Muhammad Ali, a big mouth boxer. Some people loved him and wanted him to win; others, hated him and wanted someone to shut his mouth... but you know what? both types of people wanted to see him and paid to see him. People shaking hands and saying GG won't sell to the masses. Making it personal will do. The masses want to see people who hate each other competing against each other; or at least they like to see personalities too. Something esports doesn't exploit much. Only few players are controversial, and when one player is too controversial and has a unique persoanlity, what do they do? They fired him... We need more Idras, we need more CombatEX, and all those colorful personalities the community is so against. Those are the people that can make a show, that can sell and expand the market. We need people to talk about us just like in this thread and its 330 something pages.
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No. No we don't need more CombatEX. IdrA pissed people off but at least he didn't cheat. There is a big difference between the two players. I wouldn't say they are the same thing..at all...
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On May 13 2013 22:02 Aim Here wrote:At the risk of derailing all this anti-EG and/or anti-Idra angst with something positive, seems that Idra will likely start his new casting career by cocasting the next round of ShoutCraft USA with Totalbiscuit, of all people! Given that they've criticized each other in the past (and the community has invented some drama where none existed too, for good measure!) this should be interesting - Idra did a really good job casting with Jason Lee, who was far more of a Starcraft novice than TB is, in one of the early GSLs, so I reckon this could work fairly well, at least on the part of the casters. How the community reacts is a different matter, given how both personalities seem to provoke a fairly toxic reaction among some vocal Starcraft fans. We'll see! Link: https://twitter.com/GennaBain/status/333925135503458304
I guess it will look like this:
Good evening all of the good fucks out there. I'm Idra and though I hate you all with a passion it so happens that i'm being paid to cast for you. So just letting you know, you are all worthless pieces of ****, but let's go into the game I guess.
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On May 14 2013 01:48 LOveRH wrote:
No. No we don't need more CombatEX. IdrA pissed people off but at least he didn't cheat. There is a big difference between the two players. I wouldn't say they are the same thing..at all...
I knew some people will think this. However, another big group of people will think otherwise. Also... "stream cheating" is not cheating according to Blizzard rules, so CombatEX never broke the rules. Besides, I think streamers can delay their gameplay to avoid this. Correct me if I am wrong.
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On May 14 2013 01:39 TychusFindlaylol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 21:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
'so far gamers are just a bunch of boring nerds nobody pays attention to. ' - And your solution to this issue is to do what? Not punish Idra and allow him to perpetuate all the worst nerdrage stereotypes? I never said that was the solution because I never said the other was a problem. I only acknowledge the current situation of esports and this community. Only gamers watch other gamers play, and I know some mediocres are just happy with what they have now. However, this is not my case. I want this to evolve into something bigger and compete with the biggest entertainment industries we see today. We need to make this appealing to the masses, not just a small community if we want to take this to the next level. Also, what's wrong about the nerdrage and the BM? That's what really sells in this world along with sex. Take a look at boxing and WWE exploiting this. Just look at Muhammad Ali, a big mouth boxer. Some people loved him and wanted him to win; others, hated him and wanted someone to shut his mouth... but you know what? both types of people wanted to see him and paid to see him. People shaking hands and saying GG won't sell to the masses. Making it personal will do. The masses want to see people who hate each other competing against each other; or at least they like to see personalities too. Something esports doesn't exploit much. Only few players are controversial, and when one player is too controversial and has a unique persoanlity, what do they do? They fired him... We need more Idras, we need more CombatEX, and all those colorful personalities the community is so against. Those are the people that can make a show, that can sell and expand the market. We need people to talk about us just like in this thread and its 330 something pages.
Why all these comparisons to WWE? I mean i am a long term fan of WWF to way back in 90's, so I am not hating here, but it is closer related to acting rather than a competitive sport. I do believe unless I am mistaken that sc2 is built around a game where people strive to be the best through competition. Heels exist in wrestling as it is really a pantomime and characters are needed to engage the crowd and get them behind the face, characters and drama are needed in wrestling. If we need this kind of charade in pro gaming then I just don't know man... seems kinda off.
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On May 14 2013 01:39 TychusFindlaylol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 21:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
'so far gamers are just a bunch of boring nerds nobody pays attention to. ' - And your solution to this issue is to do what? Not punish Idra and allow him to perpetuate all the worst nerdrage stereotypes? I never said that was the solution because I never said the other was a problem. I only acknowledge the current situation of esports and this community. Only gamers watch other gamers play, and I know some mediocres are just happy with what they have now. However, this is not my case. I want this to evolve into something bigger and compete with the biggest entertainment industries we see today. We need to make this appealing to the masses, not just a small community if we want to take this to the next level. Also, what's wrong about the nerdrage and the BM? That's what really sells in this world along with sex. Take a look at boxing and WWE exploiting this. Just look at Muhammad Ali, a big mouth boxer. Some people loved him and wanted him to win; others, hated him and wanted someone to shut his mouth... but you know what? both types of people wanted to see him and paid to see him. People shaking hands and saying GG won't sell to the masses. Making it personal will do. The masses want to see people who hate each other competing against each other; or at least they like to see personalities too. Something esports doesn't exploit much. Only few players are controversial, and when one player is too controversial and has a unique persoanlity, what do they do? They fired him... We need more Idras, we need more CombatEX, and all those colorful personalities the community is so against. Those are the people that can make a show, that can sell and expand the market. We need people to talk about us just like in this thread and its 330 something pages.
I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. I think we need more people with personality, sure, but I think those people can be the Grubbys, the Partings, the DJ Wheats, the Total Biscuits of the community. These are all guys who have proven to be entertaining, throwing generally harmless taunts or energetic banter around depending on their role in the community. We don't need our crazy individuals to be douche-bags, just crazy enough to entertain.
I personally feel that eSports is at a disadvantage in that it's going to be harder for us to get the non-gamer buddies over to watch a starcraft match on the weekends. We're going to have a hard time getting our girlfriends or wives to join us at the eSports stadium to watch an event. We're going to have 20+ years of that nerd-stigma affecting us (oh the guys aren't moving, I don't get it, what's so hard about that?). If we want to grow, we can't have our most well known personalities throwing out slurs, calling fans fucks or generally being douche-bags. This doesn't grow the overall viewership, but polarizes the current viewership. Idra getting 10,000 viewers is not getting 10,000 viewers who would otherwise never have watched starcraft, it's getting 10,000 viewers who already know about and watch starcraft and want to either see him explode, find his commentary useful, want to see him make fun of other people, or whatever.
All this is moot, however. From a business perspective, you have a guy saying that he is being paid to be a dick to the comminuty. He takes money that you give him (either as an actual salary or because you give money to the team that then gives him some of that money) and then treats fellow competitors, competitions, or fans like trash and you help make that happen. Whether or not this is actually what's going on (I genuinely don't think he means to be a dick in a malicious way) this is how the situation is perceived. Businesses don't like that shit. I don't want to pay a guy to promote my brand in that kind of fashion, and the few businesses that have in the past (Cloud9labs for instance with Destiny) get a ton of backlash. I can't blame any of them for the pressure they put on EG management, and I can't blame EG management if they used that pressure to make their decision.
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On May 14 2013 00:37 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 22:15 Talin wrote:On May 13 2013 21:18 TychusFindlaylol wrote:
so far gamers are just a bunch of boring nerds nobody pays attention to. If we can show the world we are more than that. and that we can actually entertain the masses with the drama and rage, then we could make it to national TV shows and compete with the top sport industries of America. This is such a misguided hypothesis. Masses that are entertained by drama and rage already have the kind of shows they enjoy delivered to them on national TV. These masses are also highly unlikely to follow a show that fundamentally displays kids playing video games with space marines and bugs, no matter the amount of drama they create. The fundamental activity that is being shown (gaming) is something that is inherently considered, for the lack of a better word, nerdy. When NBA or UFC athletes trash talk one another, it has some appeal and credibility due to the dynamic and physical nature of the sport they compete in. That is why it draws people in. When gamers behave the same way, it only strengthens the angry gamer kid stereotype that appeals to a very limited audience at best. Honestly I'm not even sure it has any genuine appeal, as most people seem to like it only because they either think it's a good way to promote esports to the mainstream media, or because they take some sort of weird pleasure in seeing gamers angry and frustrated (ie. schadenfreude). The bolded part comes up now and again, but can't be said enough. The reason why the esports community is so insular is partly because of negative stereotypes around gaming. The average people don't associate or compare SC2 or CoD players with NBA players — they compare it to nerd fetishes like LARPing and DnD.
If anyone that thinks calling people a nigger or faggot or wishing death about people through in-game chat give the game 'personality, or makes players look 'badass', they're grossly mistaken. It makes them look like hyperventilating, angry nerds on the internet, that need to duck and cover behind the anonymity and detachment of a computer screen in order to pick a fight. * * A stereotype that is mostly true, by the way. The idea that skinny runts like Destiny or Orb would have the nerve to say half the things they were caught saying to players online to people's faces is fucking laughable.
Don't associate roleplayers with rollplayers man!
+ Show Spoiler +
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On May 14 2013 01:54 Swift118 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 01:39 TychusFindlaylol wrote:On May 13 2013 21:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
'so far gamers are just a bunch of boring nerds nobody pays attention to. ' - And your solution to this issue is to do what? Not punish Idra and allow him to perpetuate all the worst nerdrage stereotypes? I never said that was the solution because I never said the other was a problem. I only acknowledge the current situation of esports and this community. Only gamers watch other gamers play, and I know some mediocres are just happy with what they have now. However, this is not my case. I want this to evolve into something bigger and compete with the biggest entertainment industries we see today. We need to make this appealing to the masses, not just a small community if we want to take this to the next level. Also, what's wrong about the nerdrage and the BM? That's what really sells in this world along with sex. Take a look at boxing and WWE exploiting this. Just look at Muhammad Ali, a big mouth boxer. Some people loved him and wanted him to win; others, hated him and wanted someone to shut his mouth... but you know what? both types of people wanted to see him and paid to see him. People shaking hands and saying GG won't sell to the masses. Making it personal will do. The masses want to see people who hate each other competing against each other; or at least they like to see personalities too. Something esports doesn't exploit much. Only few players are controversial, and when one player is too controversial and has a unique persoanlity, what do they do? They fired him... We need more Idras, we need more CombatEX, and all those colorful personalities the community is so against. Those are the people that can make a show, that can sell and expand the market. We need people to talk about us just like in this thread and its 330 something pages. Why all these comparisons to WWE? I mean i am a long term fan of WWF to way back in 90's, so I am not hating here, but it is closer related to acting rather than a competitive sport. I do believe unless I am mistaken that sc2 is built around a game where people strive to be the best through competition. Heels exist in wrestling as it is really a pantomime and characters are needed to engage the crowd and get them behind the face, characters and drama are needed in wrestling. If we need this kind of charade in pro gaming then I just don't know man... seems kinda off.
The drama and personalities help. Just look at Muhammad Ali. He was not a wrestler but a boxer. You can also look at Dennis Rodman. Look at baseball and how many times the players ended up fighting against each other. Yes, we want competitiveness, but the personalities and drama are not hurting but helping because it brings more viewers.
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IdrA will make bank streaming and casting.
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On May 14 2013 02:04 TychusFindlaylol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 01:54 Swift118 wrote:On May 14 2013 01:39 TychusFindlaylol wrote:On May 13 2013 21:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
'so far gamers are just a bunch of boring nerds nobody pays attention to. ' - And your solution to this issue is to do what? Not punish Idra and allow him to perpetuate all the worst nerdrage stereotypes? I never said that was the solution because I never said the other was a problem. I only acknowledge the current situation of esports and this community. Only gamers watch other gamers play, and I know some mediocres are just happy with what they have now. However, this is not my case. I want this to evolve into something bigger and compete with the biggest entertainment industries we see today. We need to make this appealing to the masses, not just a small community if we want to take this to the next level. Also, what's wrong about the nerdrage and the BM? That's what really sells in this world along with sex. Take a look at boxing and WWE exploiting this. Just look at Muhammad Ali, a big mouth boxer. Some people loved him and wanted him to win; others, hated him and wanted someone to shut his mouth... but you know what? both types of people wanted to see him and paid to see him. People shaking hands and saying GG won't sell to the masses. Making it personal will do. The masses want to see people who hate each other competing against each other; or at least they like to see personalities too. Something esports doesn't exploit much. Only few players are controversial, and when one player is too controversial and has a unique persoanlity, what do they do? They fired him... We need more Idras, we need more CombatEX, and all those colorful personalities the community is so against. Those are the people that can make a show, that can sell and expand the market. We need people to talk about us just like in this thread and its 330 something pages. Why all these comparisons to WWE? I mean i am a long term fan of WWF to way back in 90's, so I am not hating here, but it is closer related to acting rather than a competitive sport. I do believe unless I am mistaken that sc2 is built around a game where people strive to be the best through competition. Heels exist in wrestling as it is really a pantomime and characters are needed to engage the crowd and get them behind the face, characters and drama are needed in wrestling. If we need this kind of charade in pro gaming then I just don't know man... seems kinda off. The drama and personalities help. Just look at Muhammad Ali. He was not a wrestler but a boxer. You can also look at Dennis Rodman. Look at baseball and how many times the players ended up fighting against each other. Yes, we want competitiveness, but the personalities and drama are not hurting but helping because it brings more viewers.
**look at chess**
Bobby Fischer singlehandily made the world focus on chess for a brief period of time, by doing nothing than being himself. Sports are already inherintly meanlingless activities, they are in no way essential to surviving, they are there solely for being interesting. That players are interesting should be what we should work for, not shun.
Of course we don't want *drama*, but we want **tension** to be between players. We want a winner and a loser, a hero and a villain. We want a story.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.vitamin-ha.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/VH-35bcoq.jpg)
