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On April 22 2013 00:41 magnaflow wrote:
Why is there no unison between these leagues? Why are ESL and MLG responsible for brackets, rules, qualification process, invites or anything. The only thing these two organization should be doing is airing, and casting the matches.
Something that should be epic is turning into the laughing stock of e-sports. What a fucking joke
Blizzard may have introduced a system to unify the player scene such as points and a common event structure but that doesn't mean that the event holders themselves understands this or even wants it to happen.
EU has no problem with this since we already are "communists" and are quite used to share everything and be like one, and all that shit. US however, like MLG, are more used to the opposite model of doggy doggy world, take what you can get and see everyone else as competition. And this view has not changed from the standpoint of MLG. That's the reason why they don't want to share "their" content, such as the qualifier, to the competition, such as NASL.
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On April 22 2013 00:44 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 00:25 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 00:12 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote:
Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better. MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters... Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time. You're just being jaded. This is no pass-time, several of these issues have their own threads and reddit pages too. Instead, you should bother to read the first few pages and see that MLG has made some rather inexcusable mistakes. I think the arbitrary exclusion of registered Chinese pros while known hackers/low level players/ineligible players were admitted casts doubt on the validity of all the results so far. Not to mention, your own arguments make no sense. How do community casters delay the matches in any significant way? They would cast games at the same time as the MLG casters. No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in. As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation. I find that MLG really sux because they allready have code s etcetc.. these are just qualifiers, nothing more... why not give the community the possibility to watch there fanfavorites... MLG just want revenue all for themselves... they should have had more channels and if they cant provide in more, let the communicty cast some qualifiers.. would have been best!
Blizzard has a rule that WSC games must be broadcast on WCS approved channels. Both MLG, NASL and ELS have confirmed this. I am sure that is to keep the viewers in one place to they can provide accurate numbers to sponsors and market the event. They might change that rule for season 2, but right now only WSC official channels can broadcast the matches.
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One of the many reasons why NASL is much better than MLG.
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United States33597 Posts
On April 22 2013 00:51 namste wrote:
One of the many reasons why NASL is much better than MLG.
errrrr, let's say that after NASL holds more than 1 live event that draws anything near an MLG crowd D:
that said NASL's studio content has been great =o
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On April 22 2013 00:12 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote:
Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better. MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
I enjoyed it quite a lot too, but man there was a lot of whine at the beginning of the week
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TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
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On April 22 2013 00:56 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 00:51 namste wrote:
One of the many reasons why NASL is much better than MLG. errrrr, let's say that after NASL holds more than 1 live event that draws anything near an MLG crowd D: that said NASL's studio content has been great =o
MLG's online content has got *nothing* on NASL's... Hell NASL have held better online qualifiers in the past, going all the way back to the qualifier for the last spot of NASL Season 1 Grand Finals.
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On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote:
TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
Of course he is, all of his players have already, or have a great chance of qualifying.
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On April 22 2013 01:00 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 00:56 Waxangel wrote:On April 22 2013 00:51 namste wrote:
One of the many reasons why NASL is much better than MLG. errrrr, let's say that after NASL holds more than 1 live event that draws anything near an MLG crowd D: that said NASL's studio content has been great =o MLG's online content has got *nothing* on NASL's... Hell NASL have held better online qualifiers in the past, going all the way back to the qualifier for the last spot of NASL Season 1 Grand Finals.
They also didn't have free qualifiers. They have always charged for people to try out. Also, you have having some selective memory of NASL season one if you think that thing was better than this. I don't even think they had qualifiers for season one. Players applied for season one.
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On April 22 2013 00:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 00:44 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 00:25 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 00:12 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote:
Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better. MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters... Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time. You're just being jaded. This is no pass-time, several of these issues have their own threads and reddit pages too. Instead, you should bother to read the first few pages and see that MLG has made some rather inexcusable mistakes. I think the arbitrary exclusion of registered Chinese pros while known hackers/low level players/ineligible players were admitted casts doubt on the validity of all the results so far. Not to mention, your own arguments make no sense. How do community casters delay the matches in any significant way? They would cast games at the same time as the MLG casters. No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in. As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation. I find that MLG really sux because they allready have code s etcetc.. these are just qualifiers, nothing more... why not give the community the possibility to watch there fanfavorites... MLG just want revenue all for themselves... they should have had more channels and if they cant provide in more, let the communicty cast some qualifiers.. would have been best! Blizzard has a rule that WSC games must be broadcast on WCS approved channels. Both MLG, NASL and ELS have confirmed this. I am sure that is to keep the viewers in one place to they can provide accurate numbers to sponsors and market the event. They might change that rule for season 2, but right now only WSC official channels can broadcast the matches.
esl had 15 streams... gimme 15 then..
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Please give WCS to NASL  . Thanks to the OP for putting together these issues. Do we have any word from Blizzard or the tournament organizers re: this fiasco?
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On April 22 2013 01:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:00 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 22 2013 00:56 Waxangel wrote:On April 22 2013 00:51 namste wrote:
One of the many reasons why NASL is much better than MLG. errrrr, let's say that after NASL holds more than 1 live event that draws anything near an MLG crowd D: that said NASL's studio content has been great =o MLG's online content has got *nothing* on NASL's... Hell NASL have held better online qualifiers in the past, going all the way back to the qualifier for the last spot of NASL Season 1 Grand Finals. They also didn't have free qualifiers. They have always charged for people to try out. Also, you have having some selective memory of NASL season one if you think that thing was better than this. I don't even think they had qualifiers for season one. Players applied for season one.
Read what I said again. After the group stages had finished, they were left with 15 players and held an online open qualifier to determine the last seed. (which ended up going to PuMa) That qualifier went a lot better than this one, is what I was getting at.
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On April 22 2013 01:08 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 00:50 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 00:44 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 00:25 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 00:12 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote:
Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better. MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters... Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time. You're just being jaded. This is no pass-time, several of these issues have their own threads and reddit pages too. Instead, you should bother to read the first few pages and see that MLG has made some rather inexcusable mistakes. I think the arbitrary exclusion of registered Chinese pros while known hackers/low level players/ineligible players were admitted casts doubt on the validity of all the results so far. Not to mention, your own arguments make no sense. How do community casters delay the matches in any significant way? They would cast games at the same time as the MLG casters. No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in. As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation. I find that MLG really sux because they allready have code s etcetc.. these are just qualifiers, nothing more... why not give the community the possibility to watch there fanfavorites... MLG just want revenue all for themselves... they should have had more channels and if they cant provide in more, let the communicty cast some qualifiers.. would have been best! Blizzard has a rule that WSC games must be broadcast on WCS approved channels. Both MLG, NASL and ELS have confirmed this. I am sure that is to keep the viewers in one place to they can provide accurate numbers to sponsors and market the event. They might change that rule for season 2, but right now only WSC official channels can broadcast the matches. esl had 15 streams... gimme 15 then..
I'd be happy to settle for 4 streams.
Don't tell Blizzard or MLG that yet though, we'll start negotiations at 15. I still can't believe I watched Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio on MLG's one and only stream...
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On April 22 2013 01:09 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:06 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:00 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 22 2013 00:56 Waxangel wrote:On April 22 2013 00:51 namste wrote:
One of the many reasons why NASL is much better than MLG. errrrr, let's say that after NASL holds more than 1 live event that draws anything near an MLG crowd D: that said NASL's studio content has been great =o MLG's online content has got *nothing* on NASL's... Hell NASL have held better online qualifiers in the past, going all the way back to the qualifier for the last spot of NASL Season 1 Grand Finals. They also didn't have free qualifiers. They have always charged for people to try out. Also, you have having some selective memory of NASL season one if you think that thing was better than this. I don't even think they had qualifiers for season one. Players applied for season one. Read what I said again. After the group stages had finished, they were left with 15 players and held an online open qualifier to determine the last seed. (which ended up going to PuMa) That qualifier went a lot better than this one, is what I was getting at.
Well that's great, but they still invited everyone to season 1. There were no qualifiers at all for that season. They also charge money to prevent gold leaguers from flooding the qualifiers, which is what happened hear.
And if you are going to compare NASL season 1 and 2 to the MGL qualifiers last night, I am going to politely ask that you go back 3 years and watch those VODs and refresh your memory.
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On April 22 2013 01:12 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:08 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 00:50 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 00:44 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 00:25 Ghanburighan wrote:On April 22 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 00:12 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote:
Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better. MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters... Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time. You're just being jaded. This is no pass-time, several of these issues have their own threads and reddit pages too. Instead, you should bother to read the first few pages and see that MLG has made some rather inexcusable mistakes. I think the arbitrary exclusion of registered Chinese pros while known hackers/low level players/ineligible players were admitted casts doubt on the validity of all the results so far. Not to mention, your own arguments make no sense. How do community casters delay the matches in any significant way? They would cast games at the same time as the MLG casters. No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in. As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation. I find that MLG really sux because they allready have code s etcetc.. these are just qualifiers, nothing more... why not give the community the possibility to watch there fanfavorites... MLG just want revenue all for themselves... they should have had more channels and if they cant provide in more, let the communicty cast some qualifiers.. would have been best! Blizzard has a rule that WSC games must be broadcast on WCS approved channels. Both MLG, NASL and ELS have confirmed this. I am sure that is to keep the viewers in one place to they can provide accurate numbers to sponsors and market the event. They might change that rule for season 2, but right now only WSC official channels can broadcast the matches. esl had 15 streams... gimme 15 then.. I'd be happy to settle for 4 streams. Don't tell Blizzard or MLG that yet though, we'll start negotiations at 15. I still can't believe I watched Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio on MLG's one and only stream...
Indeed 4 MLG streams would be good also.. atleast u have a choice..
The big difference between ESL and MLG is that ESL saw that this qualifier was so immense, they needed more channels and they chose to ask help from the community to broadcast this event properly. MLG on the other hand, had $$ in there eyes i thought... wow 30k viewers... i want all ad-income in 1 stream because its cheaper then ads over 4/5 streams... thats basically it. Ofcourse they will say they cant garantee the quality of there product etcetc.. but its bullshit because the quality could not get any lower after watching the bracket for 15 minutes...
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On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote:
Well that's great, but they still invited everyone to season 1. There were no qualifiers at all for that season.
That's irrelevant. The point is that NASL can hold online tournaments, including large bracket qualifiers, much better than MLG.
On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote:
And if you are going to compare NASL season 1 and 2 to the MGL qualifiers last night, I am going to politely ask that you go back 3 years and watch those VODs and refresh your memory.
What are you trying to say? That the games weren't as good? That is, once again, irrelevant to the fact that MLG have done a piss poor job in terms of organizing and managing the event.
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On April 22 2013 01:18 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote:
Well that's great, but they still invited everyone to season 1. There were no qualifiers at all for that season. That's irrelevant. The point is that NASL can hold online tournaments, including large bracket qualifiers, much better than MLG. Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote:
And if you are going to compare NASL season 1 and 2 to the MGL qualifiers last night, I am going to politely ask that you go back 3 years and watch those VODs and refresh your memory. What are you trying to say? That the games weren't as good? That is, once again, irrelevant to the fact that MLG have done a piss poor job.
I disagree in every way. The qualifier bracket for NASL was never 1,000 players. And they ran an open qualifier where they charged people to try out so they only had professional players who cared about the event. MLG didn't do that because the community LOST THEIR MINDS when they tried to charge $20. The production for the first two seasons of NASL was piss poor too. There is a reason we make jokes about the NASL sound guy.
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On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote:
TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
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On April 22 2013 01:24 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:18 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote:
Well that's great, but they still invited everyone to season 1. There were no qualifiers at all for that season. That's irrelevant. The point is that NASL can hold online tournaments, including large bracket qualifiers, much better than MLG. On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote:
And if you are going to compare NASL season 1 and 2 to the MGL qualifiers last night, I am going to politely ask that you go back 3 years and watch those VODs and refresh your memory. What are you trying to say? That the games weren't as good? That is, once again, irrelevant to the fact that MLG have done a piss poor job. I disagree in every way. The qualifier bracket for NASL was never 1,000 players. And they ran an open qualifier where they charged people to try out so they only had professional players who cared about the event. MLG didn't do that because the community LOST THEIR MINDS when they tried to charge $20. The production for the first two seasons of NASL was piss poor too. There is a reason we make jokes about the NASL sound guy.
The production for the offline events. Nobody is complaining about MLG's offline tournaments here. Ideally Blizzard should've used one company for the qualifiers and another for the LAN finals.
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On April 22 2013 01:24 Fluffboll wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote:
TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes.. That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be. Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff. Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
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EPT
