1) Refusing to allow any community broadcasters to show any of the other games meaning matches such as NrGquasAr knocking JD down to the losers bracket will be reserved for their cast by replays broadcasts. Along with all the games for qualfiication from the Winners Bracket.
3) Taking 5 hours to disqualify Quantic HyuN as he is ineligible due to his participation in WCS KR Code S this season but only doing so after he has knocked out 4 people.
4) Banning people from channels who asked why the Chinese players were not entered in to the bracket.
Worth noting that while the ESL bracket was also a PITA compared to say, Challonge or Binary Beast it didn't force people to name themselves twice (Rootcaliber = Tubbythefat etc), was updated and had collapsible sections as opposed to having later stages off screen.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand this. Howcome EU was allowed to have multiple streams but not NA? Aren't they both in WCS so shouldn't the rules be applied equally?
EDIT: and yes, MLG dropped the ball on the qualifiers, so much shit that wen't wrong.
On April 21 2013 17:50 Silvanel wrote: This doesnt sound good, especially points 2, 3, and 4. Have they realesed a statemnt regarding those accusation? Or You are just gathering the mob?
but in all seriousness they shouldnt have capped the tourney, hopefully theyll put a league restriction or something next time
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand this. Howcome EU was allowed to have multiple streams but not NA? Aren't they both in WCS so shouldn't the rules be applied equally?
It is the MLG policy against any community streams. It has always been like that. Though as it is not entirely their event, they could make an exception here.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand this. Howcome EU was allowed to have multiple streams but not NA? Aren't they both in WCS so shouldn't the rules be applied equally?
It is the MLG policy against any community streams. It has always been like that. Though as it is not entirely their event, they could make an exception here.
7) Only having one bracket so that 2 of the LB sections are completely stacked, with JD, Center, Zenio, Revival and in one and Sage, JYP and Alive in another. Meanwhile the other 2 sections have Heart and Apocalypse in one and Motok, Hwangsin and Miya in another.
I've ignored all the notable foreigners but it doesn't take a genius to work out that QXC, Demuslim and friends are going to have a much tougher time in JD and co's section than incontrol in Apocalypse's or nony in Miya's.
i heard the aussies got dicked aswell. i went to bed as soon as they said they wernt in the brackets but in the chat pig was saying that he, iaguz, fenner, rossi, megafonzie and petraeus wernt in the brackets and it seemed like they were missing from the brackets after checking in and doing everything correctly aswell.
like i said i could be wrong and it might been resolved for them but it looks pretty fucked
MLG and Blizzard really need to fix this trainwreck of a qualifier or they'll be losing a lot. Especially since they ticked off people already for shooing off NASL for actually HELPING THEM OUT.
On April 21 2013 18:07 KanoCoke wrote: MLG and Blizzard really need to fix this trainwreck of a qualifier or they'll be losing a lot. Especially since they ticked off people already for shooing off NASL for actually HELPING THEM OUT.
This is absolutely stupid.
Imagine if they had let NASL run the online qualifiers, I bet you none of these issues would have happened. We might've had some audio problems here and there () but that's about it. ~_~
Honestly, I don't think that MLG screwed up more than ESL did. The jist though is that they only have one stream and one qualifier, which makes their screwup a lot more gravere compared to what happened with the ESL.
Players being screwed during check-in? ESL: Ya, we're really sorry, please try again in the other three Code S qualifiers! MLG: Ya, we're really sorry, please try again in the Code A qualifier!
Stream boring (boring game, too much downtime)? ESL: Ya, sorry, please change to one of the other streams in the meantime. MLG: Ya, sorry, but you are stuck with us.
I don't even understand how are people organizing this tournament even doing such silly and illogical mistakes? PhysicsLee had topics on reddit aswell as TL, aswell as his team manager defending him and asking people for more evidence first. I'm pretty sure he isn't even the only hacker on the bracket since there's so many on NA lately...it must suck for people to get eliminated in such a way instead of going out with glory by losing to a top notch korean.
On April 21 2013 18:15 JustPassingBy wrote: Honestly, I don't think that MLG screwed up more than ESL did. The jist though is that they only have one stream and one qualifier, which makes their screwup a lot more gravere compared to what happened with the ESL.
Players being screwed during check-in? ESL: Ya, we're really sorry, please try again in the other three Code S qualifiers! MLG: Ya, we're really sorry, please try again in the Code A qualifier!
Stream boring (boring game, too much downtime)? ESL: Ya, sorry, please change to one of the other streams in the meantime. MLG: Ya, sorry, but you are stuck with us.
Don't forget ESL also allowed more people to participate...
On April 21 2013 18:15 Daswollvieh wrote: Why are people surprised? I mean, it´s what Hyun does, really, eliminating people online. It´s like his natural habitat.
People are surprised that MLG allowed him to play at all, considering he had already taken part in WCS KR this season.
Extremely sad to see NA/SA Rest of the World Dreams snuffed out by poorly conceived tournament rules permitting players who live and work in Regions that already enjoy a WCS qualifier able to join weaker 'easier targets'.
Yes, hardcore Starcraft fans that are ever present on forums such as this will rejoice at the opportunity to see more top notch Koreans at convenient times. The casual, silent mass audience will just continue to be disconnected from the scene whilst promising amateurs find it increasingly hard to get noticed and receive the support they need to have that talent nurtured.
TL DR. WCS limiting global growth by snuffing out localised competition and story lines and channelling Starcraft ever deeper into a niche.
On April 21 2013 18:25 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Maybe it is just because MLG lack admins ... ?
I think they have quite a few, the problem is that, as some people have mentioned in the other threads, the admins either ignore these issues when they are reported or even ban people from channels for having pointed them out. :S
Given walkover against HyuN in Winners Bracket due to him turning up late. Being knocked out of WB by Quantic Center and then knocked out of the tournament in the Losers Bracket by the ineligible HyuN.
On April 21 2013 18:15 JustPassingBy wrote: Honestly, I don't think that MLG screwed up more than ESL did. The jist though is that they only have one stream and one qualifier, which makes their screwup a lot more gravere compared to what happened with the ESL.
Players being screwed during check-in? ESL: Ya, we're really sorry, please try again in the other three Code S qualifiers! MLG: Ya, we're really sorry, please try again in the Code A qualifier!
Stream boring (boring game, too much downtime)? ESL: Ya, sorry, please change to one of the other streams in the meantime. MLG: Ya, sorry, but you are stuck with us.
Right now it seems to me ESL did much better job, You are not even touching biggest isuues.
On April 21 2013 18:15 JustPassingBy wrote: Honestly, I don't think that MLG screwed up more than ESL did. The jist though is that they only have one stream and one qualifier, which makes their screwup a lot more gravere compared to what happened with the ESL.
Players being screwed during check-in? ESL: Ya, we're really sorry, please try again in the other three Code S qualifiers! MLG: Ya, we're really sorry, please try again in the Code A qualifier!
Stream boring (boring game, too much downtime)? ESL: Ya, sorry, please change to one of the other streams in the meantime. MLG: Ya, sorry, but you are stuck with us.
Thing is, if you only do 1 bracket, you NEED to fucking know what you are doing since you have 0% chance of redemption.
I know that sometimes people exaggerate with the adjectives, but in this case i think that "shocking", "abysmal", "deplorable" and the like are quite fitting. Not regretting at all my decision to go to bed instead of staying up all night for this (EU region).
To be honest I didn't expect it to go any better. It seems like mlg always seems to make some terrible decisions and gets away with it just fine (extended series, even after they're now splitting up the brackets in two parts in their latest tournaments, which i think is bad design as well because you can get 1 way harder bracket than the other). Also I don't like the casting of Axlav and Axeltoss and with no other alternatives I won't be watching WCS America unfortunately.
On April 21 2013 19:15 Underkoffer wrote: To be honest I didn't expect it to go any better. It seems like mlg always seems to make some terrible decisions and gets away with it just fine (extended series, even after they're now splitting up the brackets in two parts in their latest tournaments, which i think is bad design as well because you can get 1 way harder bracket than the other). Also I don't like the casting of Axlav and Axeltoss and with no other alternatives I won't be watching WCS America unfortunately.
They brought TotalBiscuit in, which saved the cast.
On April 21 2013 19:19 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Foreigners have always been 1-2 step behind koreans when it comes to sc2 skill, and 3-4 steps when it comes down to run a tournament.
Imagine being one of the players who got fucked out of being able to play in the qualifier, this is your only chance to get into WCS for season 1 and basically your only chance to make it to the global finals, I highly doubt anyone who doesn't play in all 3 seasons will make it to the global finals.
Yolk tournament, sc2 was better off as it was in 2012 even though there was a tournament every weekend.
Wow i didnt realize this was such a fuckup. Too bad. MLG needs more people working on WCS. More admins,more casters.(if they dont want to let anyone broadcast). Greedy SOBs
Add Eu qualifier problems : 1. Np found 2. One hour before start check in time changed from 17:40 to 17:00 even if u register 16:59 it says check in 17:40 so many people cant attend 3. Promised 1024 people somehow changed to 512 you have like 40 sek to check in or u cant play.(i give my place to Runa cause was stupidity when top gm on europe cant attend cause (noobs check in faster ). 4. Bracket page dont show all qualifier until top 16.
There is many mistakes that need to be forced to repair next qualifier for sure something like top 200 GM on Eu have their place secured in all qualifiers , if not come place is free to others etc. + fixed players limit ,check in time .
esl got slated for a lot of things....but organising qualifiers with over 1600 entrants is never going to be smooth sailing. They did a really good job all things considering.
What let the few mistakes they made not be such a big deal is that they chose to have multiple qualifiers. therefore despite an early check-in meaning some missed out in qualifier 2....all the people who had a shot at qualifying got more chances.
the biggest mistake was definitely in only having a single qualifier.
also the greed of only allowing one cast annoys me. Is this MLG winter championships or whatever....? No, its WCS america. Its annoying that because MLG would pay more money to blizzard all the fans have to suffer because there's now only one stream when hundreds of games are being played simultaneously.
I really hope NASL are allowed to be much more heavily involved in future WCS NA events
On April 21 2013 19:39 CamoPillbox wrote: Add Eu qualifier problems : 1. Np found 2. One hour before start check in time changed from 17:40 to 17:00 even if u register 16:59 it says check in 17:40 so many people cant attend 3. Promised 1024 people somehow changed to 512 you have like 40 sek to check in or u cant play.(i give my place to Runa cause was stupidity when top gm on europe cant attend cause (noobs check in faster ). 4. Bracket page dont show all qualifier until top 16.
There is many mistakes that need to be forced to repair next qualifier for sure something like top 200 GM on Eu have their place secured in all qualifiers , if not come place is free to others etc. + fixed players limit ,check in time .
EU never said they would have 1024 on monday and tuesday.. brackets got messy on the day 2000 guys played its normal but then it go fixed.. anyway players could see their matches
On April 21 2013 17:50 Silvanel wrote: This doesnt sound good, especially points 2, 3, and 4. Have they realesed a statemnt regarding those accusation? Or You are just gathering the mob?
but in all seriousness they shouldnt have capped the tourney, hopefully theyll put a league restriction or something next time
You mean like GSL has been doing for ages? WTF man stop being reasonable!
6) Is probably because people didnt want to pay 20 dollars to get in. And no one wanted to give up their spots. 5) I didnt really see them being too slow lol. I just cant find Nony or Incontrol in the losers bracket which I find weird. (Unless they announced something while I went to sleep.) 3) That is actually pretty funny. 2) Hackers suck. 1) They should of allowed other community websites show some of their games. Maybe they will next time who knows.
It is all a growing experience next season will hopefully be better. Still you can feel like it was rushed. And the beginning down time was pretty upsetting which was 30 minutes after they went live for their first game.
Only one official stream is not enough for the guys around the world to see the players and matches they wanna see. But the rules are there and no other unofficial streams/observers are allowed, let alone to share the results or contents of the matches into any kind of websites/communities. That's the rules inherited from former MLG and that's why it shall be only legal to broadcast only in wcs_amercia channel. What a pity!
Blizzard chose the worst partners for WCS in NA and EU. I can't believe the fuckups that have been done in both regions the past week, heads would be rolling all over the place if I was in charge, WCS so far is a farce.
On April 21 2013 20:16 Nihilnovi wrote: Blizzard chose the worst partners for WCS in NA and EU. I can't believe the fuckups that have been done in both regions the past week, heads would be rolling all over the place if I was in charge, WCS so far is a farce.
Blizzard definetely chose the right partner for the online part of EU. There is no organization world wide that has so much experience in big online tournaments and none that could have done it better in such a small time. If it is the right partner for the offline part, we still have to see.
I am rather suprised Quantic just let Hyun play ? What team are you if you either don't know the rules or you just ignore them. And don't tell me no one knew Hyun was going to play either. Unproffesional and utterly rude, not to mention against the rules and robbing other deserving people from a slot.
And yeah those other points are some serieus flaws we are having with the current qualifiers.
On April 21 2013 20:23 Lysanias wrote: I am rather suprised Quantic just let Hyun play ? What team are you if you either don't know the rules or you just ignore them. And don't tell me no one knew Hyun was going to play either. Unproffesional and utterly rude, not to mention against the rules and robbing other deserving people from a slot.
And yeah those other points are some serieus flaws we are having with the current qualifiers.
I was about to say the same thing. How did Quantic and MLG both let something like this slip past them.
MLG is probably responsible for the whole "koreans in other regions" mess and also failed pretty hard with a pay to play (yes, thats changed, I know) qualifier and a 512 player bracket. Some of the mistakes they made that are pointed out in the OP realy fit in the picture.
If I would have faced Hyun first thing I would have asked "Hey aren't you locked to KR region already?". Would have gotten myself slaughtered anyway. But he could have saved himself some time by asking an admin.
Some people were saying in the LR thread that MLG redo the bracket AFTER some people have played their first round matches already, is this true as well?
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
On April 21 2013 20:10 McDrizzle wrote: 6) Is probably because people didnt want to pay 20 dollars to get in. And no one wanted to give up their spots. 5) I didnt really see them being too slow lol. I just cant find Nony or Incontrol in the losers bracket which I find weird. (Unless they announced something while I went to sleep.) 3) That is actually pretty funny. 2) Hackers suck. 1) They should of allowed other community websites show some of their games. Maybe they will next time who knows.
It is all a growing experience next season will hopefully be better. Still you can feel like it was rushed. And the beginning down time was pretty upsetting which was 30 minutes after they went live for their first game.
you're right i just searched for nony and couldnt find him now. MLG's bracket has removed everyone that was in Losers' Round 8 after getting knocked out of the WB (the round Nony and Incontrol were in). Not sure what the story is there they've completely hidden all those people after Losers' Round 6 so idk if that means they decided to reseed the bracket or something for people falling from the winners bracket (which would seem rather unethical) but the bracket is updated on liquipedia for how it was
GSL has just about never casted any of the qualifier matches. That MLG and ESL does so is and added bonus. They even have the Vods free, something GSL didn't do. In addition, the video quality for MLG/ESL is soooo much better than GSL and the videos loads a lot faster.
... what MLG/ESL is missing is Wolf and Khaldor, they are just awesome casters.
On April 21 2013 20:46 blackbrrd wrote: GSL has just about never casted any of the qualifier matches. That MLG and ESL does so is and added bonus. They even have the Vods free, something GSL didn't do. In addition, the video quality for MLG/ESL is soooo much better than GSL and the videos loads a lot faster.
... what MLG/ESL is missing is Wolf and Khaldor, they are just awesome casters.
That's Code A qualifiers in an offline setting. Their policy to not broadcast the qualifiers were to accommodate players with minimal pressure. This is an online qualifier where people play from home, for Code S equivalent.
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
Truly HyuNstoppable ;o
Says alot about Hyun as a person to
Yeah because I'm sure he knew the rules of WCS very well... just like every other player... Oh wait...
I wouldnt be surprised if they notified him too late after the first dq and he had probably already defeated the next player. he was 2-0ing everyone the whole thing is pretty fucking silly. it's not like it wasnt brought to the admins' attention early on. I think it was TL user Tobblish that finally got an admin to fix it
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
Truly HyuNstoppable ;o
Says alot about Hyun as a person to
Yeah because I'm sure he knew the rules of WCS very well... just like every other player... Oh wait...
I wouldnt be surprised if they notified him too late after the first dq and he had probably already defeated the next player. he was 2-0ing everyone
Typical HyuN online performance in NA/EU, nothing surprising here. lol
yeah, I mean no offense to the players that got screwed by playing HyuN, but at least he didnt knock anyone notable out that probably had a chance to win a qualifier spot. just a silver lining on the situation Imagine if he had knocked out some of the other koreans or Demuslim the foreigner hope
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
Truly HyuNstoppable ;o
Says alot about Hyun as a person to
Yeah because I'm sure he knew the rules of WCS very well... just like every other player... Oh wait...
Blizzard botched this in every possible way with regards to handling information about their event.
A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions. He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Offcourse this is true that MLG/Blizzard admins made a big mistake, to let him play for 5 hours, then DQ him and needing to DQ him again, but i doubt he went in there all ignorant.
On April 21 2013 20:55 Lysanias wrote: A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions.
Remember when Nazgul posted that he himself barely knew more than what was circulating in the rest of the community about WCS? And he manages a big foreign team for fuck's sake.
On April 21 2013 20:55 Lysanias wrote: He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Too lazy to find the thread; but I read somewhere that Hyun and Team put substantial effort into contacting admins, regarding him being able to play or not.
Can 't really blame Hyun for drawing the short straw by being in Code S AND THEN when he asks for clarification, not really getting any, until mid qualifier...
On April 21 2013 20:55 Lysanias wrote: A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions.
Remember when Nazgul posted that he himself barely knew more than what was circulating in the rest of the community about WCS? And he manages a big foreign team for fuck's sake.
On April 21 2013 20:55 Lysanias wrote: He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Read the posts above.
Nazgul made that post only shorty after WCS was announced, i am prity sure we won't see any liquid members in 2 regions at the same time. As a matter of fact 0 teams have made that mistake so far.
On April 21 2013 20:57 Goolpsy wrote: Too lazy to find the thread; but I read somewhere that Hyun and Team put substantial effort into contacting admins, regarding him being able to play or not.
Can 't really blame Hyun for drawing the short straw by being in Code S AND THEN when he asks for clarification, not really getting any, until mid qualifier...
Seems consistent with the previous information of admins ignoring issues and banning people from channels for bringing them up.
On April 21 2013 20:55 Lysanias wrote: A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions.
Remember when Nazgul posted that he himself barely knew more than what was circulating in the rest of the community about WCS? And he manages a big foreign team for fuck's sake.
On April 21 2013 20:55 Lysanias wrote: He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Read the posts above.
Nazgul made that post only shorty after WCS was announced, i am prity sure we won't see any liquid members in 2 regions at the same time. As a matter of fact 0 teams have made that mistake so far.
I find it believable that Hyun had no idea if he was allowed to play or not. The whole thing is a mess and nobody really knows what is going on. Not even the admins (if there are any) apparantly. Maybe he just registered to find out, being convinced that if he wasn't allowed to play they would just tell him.
I think one of the problems that led to the confusion of HyuN playing is apparently Code S players are allowed to play in the Challenger league qualifiers. Not 100% sure about this but that's what people were saying. Apparently America's Challenger league qualifiers are invite only based on how you did at the WCS America Premier League Qualifiers. Some people were under the impression that HyuN was playing to qualify for those invites. Idk it's all a mess
On April 21 2013 20:55 Lysanias wrote: A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions.
Remember when Nazgul posted that he himself barely knew more than what was circulating in the rest of the community about WCS? And he manages a big foreign team for fuck's sake.
On April 21 2013 20:55 Lysanias wrote: He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Read the posts above.
Nazgul made that post only shorty after WCS was announced, i am prity sure we won't see any liquid members in 2 regions at the same time. As a matter of fact 0 teams have made that mistake so far.
I find it believable that Hyun had no idea if he was allowed to play or not. The whole thing is a mess and nobody really knows what is going on. Not even the admins (if there are any) apparantly. Maybe he just registered to find out, being convinced that if he wasn't allowed to play they would just tell him.
Fair enough, though are these things usualy not talked about with your team management ? If Hyun did not know for sure, would it not be normal to inform your team and ask for clearance ? Get's me back to the point i started with wtf was Hyun doing there.
I haven't really paid to much attention to... the politics of WCS, but is MLG paying Blizzard to be the only broadcaster for WCS NA? If so, that hardly pulls SC2 forward, especially when you notice just what is missing when TB jumps into the cast and kicks ass like no tomorrow. Makes you wonder how much Bitterdam would've owned it up.
What a complete joke this has become, Blizzards credibility as a esports entity is just going out the window. I have no clue why MLG got picked to run things considering how badly they are doing.
At this point I am basically throwing in the towel on season 1 and hoping Blizzard realizes how fucking stupid they are by season 2 otherwise I am afraid Sc2 might take a blow it can't recover from.
The fact that Hyun was allowed to eliminate people is just.... I don't even have words... It's like next level awful organization...
This needs to be a bigger issue in the community, if we don't cause serious noise we are essentially telling Blizzard they can give us amateur level content and we will just eat it up like sheep.
On April 21 2013 20:55 Lysanias wrote: A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions.
Remember when Nazgul posted that he himself barely knew more than what was circulating in the rest of the community about WCS? And he manages a big foreign team for fuck's sake.
On April 21 2013 20:55 Lysanias wrote: He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Read the posts above.
Nazgul made that post only shorty after WCS was announced, i am prity sure we won't see any liquid members in 2 regions at the same time. As a matter of fact 0 teams have made that mistake so far.
I find it believable that Hyun had no idea if he was allowed to play or not. The whole thing is a mess and nobody really knows what is going on. Not even the admins (if there are any) apparantly. Maybe he just registered to find out, being convinced that if he wasn't allowed to play they would just tell him.
Fair enough, though are these things usualy not talked about with your team management ? If Hyun did not know for sure, would it not be normal to inform your team and ask for clearance ? Get's me back to the point i started with wtf was Hyun doing there.
Maybe he thought he could play, maybe he was just frustrated with how the whole WCS thing works and decided to troll. I honestly can't tell, maybe he should have known.
Even though it is a bit off-topic, I could understand his frustration, if that was the reason why he was participating. His Code S round of 32 GROUP(!!!) had three stronger opponents in it than the entirety of WCS NA and the two tournaments are weighed the same.
There have been quite a few mishaps in the NA qualifier. Some of it being due to confusing and new rules, other just human error I guess. I feel that there should be atleast one open (not capped) qualifier, EVERYONE even if they are bronze should have atleast one opportuinity to participate in my opinion.
Wish they had more streams so if for instance I dont want to watch a zvz, I could go to the other stream and watch another matchup or game.
One BIG positive I will give to MLG is that they had very little downtime during games. Having 2 pc`s is actually a very smart idea, creds to whoever made that happen. The ability to jump fast between games really help them when they have only one stream. I did also like their casters as well, They have gotten a bit of flak in the different threads, but I atleast enjoyed their cast, creds to you Axlav and Axeltoss
On April 21 2013 21:11 Zarahtra wrote: I haven't really paid to much attention to... the politics of WCS, but is MLG paying Blizzard to be the only broadcaster for WCS NA? If so, that hardly pulls SC2 forward, especially when you notice just what is missing when TB jumps into the cast and kicks ass like no tomorrow. Makes you wonder how much Bitterdam would've owned it up.
Do you really think MLG is paying Blizz? It's the other way around.
On April 21 2013 21:11 Zarahtra wrote: I haven't really paid to much attention to... the politics of WCS, but is MLG paying Blizzard to be the only broadcaster for WCS NA? If so, that hardly pulls SC2 forward, especially when you notice just what is missing when TB jumps into the cast and kicks ass like no tomorrow. Makes you wonder how much Bitterdam would've owned it up.
Do you really think MLG is paying Blizz? It's the other way around.
Well the contract must have atleast some "we're the only ones that can broadcast from WCS NA"(and are enforcing it), which is what I was pointing at, which is aweful. Also I believe MLG wasn't even going to broadcast the qualifiers, didn't axltoss say that early on in the broadcast, that it was quickly hurried together? :/
On April 21 2013 21:36 Fionn wrote: Some of them aren't really MLG's fault, but letting Hyun play is just stupid.
Well another thing is that Hyun himself actually registered for it, checked in and knowingly took a spot from other players and knocked out others. Shouldn't this kinda behavior be punished?
And I thought EU was badly run*, but WCS.NA seems so much worse off, especially with the issue of Chinese (and aussie?) players not getting to participate because of a ridiculous 512 player cap. I don't know who has the finger on the trigger at MLG regarding those choices, but it seems very stupid to limit the tournament like.
Their stream was run quite smoothly and overall I think Axslav and Axeltoss does a decent job, but I would've liked the option of choosing another stream to see other games!
* In retrospect it wasn't that bad actually, considering how short of a notice ESL probably had on the entire thing.
On April 21 2013 21:36 Fionn wrote: Some of them aren't really MLG's fault, but letting Hyun play is just stupid.
Well another thing is that Hyun himself actually registered for it, checked in and knowingly took a spot from other players and knocked out others. Shouldn't this kinda behavior be punished?
If the sign up/check in proccess worked as it should, verifying who can/can't play HyuN would have never been able to play those games in the first place.
On April 21 2013 21:36 Fionn wrote: Some of them aren't really MLG's fault, but letting Hyun play is just stupid.
Well another thing is that Hyun himself actually registered for it, checked in and knowingly took a spot from other players and knocked out others. Shouldn't this kinda behavior be punished?
If the sign up/check in proccess worked as it should, verifying who can/can't play HyuN would have never been able to play those games in the first place.
What is the way it "should" work? It's not hard to trick the system.
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
Truly HyuNstoppable ;o
Says alot about Hyun as a person to
Yeah because I'm sure he knew the rules of WCS very well... just like every other player... Oh wait...
Blizzard botched this in every possible way with regards to handling information about their event.
A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions. He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Offcourse this is true that MLG/Blizzard admins made a big mistake, to let him play for 5 hours, then DQ him and needing to DQ him again, but i doubt he went in there all ignorant.
The first DQ wasn't a DQ it was a walk over loss for being LATE not because he played in Code S, and he kept playing because there is a fucking losers bracket to play in -.- not like he just said fuck it and kept playing people after being eliminated
Don't you dare go blaming HyuN for Blizzard/MLG's Fuck ups!
On April 21 2013 21:47 joopajoo wrote: Well another thing is that Hyun himself actually registered for it, checked in and knowingly took a spot from other players and knocked out others. Shouldn't this kinda behavior be punished?
Bit harsh. He may not have even known considering an obvious lack of information being sent out to players and teams. You can only assume the same in regards to tournament organisers like MLG and ESL. The fact that Hyun is playing in Code S, yet still managed to play in NA qualifiers to me points to a lack of communication between the regions/Blizzard.
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
Truly HyuNstoppable ;o
Says alot about Hyun as a person to
Yeah because I'm sure he knew the rules of WCS very well... just like every other player... Oh wait...
Blizzard botched this in every possible way with regards to handling information about their event.
A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions. He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Offcourse this is true that MLG/Blizzard admins made a big mistake, to let him play for 5 hours, then DQ him and needing to DQ him again, but i doubt he went in there all ignorant.
The first DQ wasn't a DQ it was a walk over loss for being LATE not because he played in Code S, and he kept playing because there is a fucking losers bracket to play in -.- not like he just said fuck it and kept playing people after being eliminated
Don't you dare go blaming HyuN for Blizzard/MLG's Fuck ups!
nah he got a walkover for being late. Then he recorded a 2-0 win vs Ivy later on in the loser bracket. Then he got DQed and Ivy got a 1-0 advance. Then it got changed to HyuN 1-0. Then HyuN played the next guy. Then HyuN got DQed again. So he got 1) walked over for being late 2) DQed in the losers' bracket 3) reinstated somehow 4) DQed again in the next round
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
Truly HyuNstoppable ;o
Says alot about Hyun as a person to
Yeah because I'm sure he knew the rules of WCS very well... just like every other player... Oh wait...
Blizzard botched this in every possible way with regards to handling information about their event.
A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions. He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Offcourse this is true that MLG/Blizzard admins made a big mistake, to let him play for 5 hours, then DQ him and needing to DQ him again, but i doubt he went in there all ignorant.
The first DQ wasn't a DQ it was a walk over loss for being LATE not because he played in Code S, and he kept playing because there is a fucking losers bracket to play in -.- not like he just said fuck it and kept playing people after being eliminated
Don't you dare go blaming HyuN for Blizzard/MLG's Fuck ups!
nah he got a walkover for being late. Then he recorded a 2-0 win vs Ivy later on in the loser bracket. Then he got DQed and Ivy got a 1-0 advance. Then it got changed to HyuN 1-0. Then HyuN played the next guy. Then HyuN got DQed again
It is not like MMA where you can literally knock someone out. If MLG doesn't put him into the next round in their bracket, then he can't do anything.
MLG are just not very good at this stuff. Large one off tournaments they rock but for this NASL would have been better. Better yet BOTH should have been involved so as the load was spread. It is not like StarCcraft has so much production talent we can have half of it sitting idle because Blizzard cut them out of the deal.
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
Truly HyuNstoppable ;o
Says alot about Hyun as a person to
Yeah because I'm sure he knew the rules of WCS very well... just like every other player... Oh wait...
Blizzard botched this in every possible way with regards to handling information about their event.
A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions. He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Offcourse this is true that MLG/Blizzard admins made a big mistake, to let him play for 5 hours, then DQ him and needing to DQ him again, but i doubt he went in there all ignorant.
The first DQ wasn't a DQ it was a walk over loss for being LATE not because he played in Code S, and he kept playing because there is a fucking losers bracket to play in -.- not like he just said fuck it and kept playing people after being eliminated
Don't you dare go blaming HyuN for Blizzard/MLG's Fuck ups!
nah he got a walkover for being late. Then he recorded a 2-0 win vs Ivy later on in the loser bracket. Then he got DQed and Ivy got a 1-0 advance. Then it got changed to HyuN 1-0. Then HyuN played the next guy. Then HyuN got DQed again. So he got 1) walked over for being late 2) DQed in the losers' bracket 3) reinstated somehow 4) DQed again in the next round
That's hilarious hahaha.
Kill it, kill it with fire. Don't let him into the ventilation ducts.
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
Truly HyuNstoppable ;o
Says alot about Hyun as a person to
Yeah because I'm sure he knew the rules of WCS very well... just like every other player... Oh wait...
Blizzard botched this in every possible way with regards to handling information about their event.
A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions. He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Offcourse this is true that MLG/Blizzard admins made a big mistake, to let him play for 5 hours, then DQ him and needing to DQ him again, but i doubt he went in there all ignorant.
The first DQ wasn't a DQ it was a walk over loss for being LATE not because he played in Code S, and he kept playing because there is a fucking losers bracket to play in -.- not like he just said fuck it and kept playing people after being eliminated
Don't you dare go blaming HyuN for Blizzard/MLG's Fuck ups!
nah he got a walkover for being late. Then he recorded a 2-0 win vs Ivy later on in the loser bracket. Then he got DQed and Ivy got a 1-0 advance. Then it got changed to HyuN 1-0. Then HyuN played the next guy. Then HyuN got DQed again
It is not like MMA where you can literally knock someone out. If MLG doesn't put him into the next round in their bracket, then he can't do anything.
I know. It's pretty funny that this could happen but kind of sad at the same time. Maybe they couldnt get ahold of the other guy anymore so they just advanced HyuN but kept him DQd
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
Truly HyuNstoppable ;o
Says alot about Hyun as a person to
Yeah because I'm sure he knew the rules of WCS very well... just like every other player... Oh wait...
Blizzard botched this in every possible way with regards to handling information about their event.
A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions. He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Offcourse this is true that MLG/Blizzard admins made a big mistake, to let him play for 5 hours, then DQ him and needing to DQ him again, but i doubt he went in there all ignorant.
The first DQ wasn't a DQ it was a walk over loss for being LATE not because he played in Code S, and he kept playing because there is a fucking losers bracket to play in -.- not like he just said fuck it and kept playing people after being eliminated
Don't you dare go blaming HyuN for Blizzard/MLG's Fuck ups!
nah he got a walkover for being late. Then he recorded a 2-0 win vs Ivy later on in the loser bracket. Then he got DQed and Ivy got a 1-0 advance. Then it got changed to HyuN 1-0. Then HyuN played the next guy. Then HyuN got DQed again. So he got 1) walked over for being late 2) DQed in the losers' bracket 3) reinstated somehow 4) DQed again in the next round
So both parties seem to be at fault here. Seriously, he got walked over because he was late for a WCS qualifier? Doesn't sound like he just innocently didn't know that he isn't allowed to play in the tournament if that's the level of interest he has for the tournament.
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
Truly HyuNstoppable ;o
Says alot about Hyun as a person to
Yeah because I'm sure he knew the rules of WCS very well... just like every other player... Oh wait...
Blizzard botched this in every possible way with regards to handling information about their event.
A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions. He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Offcourse this is true that MLG/Blizzard admins made a big mistake, to let him play for 5 hours, then DQ him and needing to DQ him again, but i doubt he went in there all ignorant.
The first DQ wasn't a DQ it was a walk over loss for being LATE not because he played in Code S, and he kept playing because there is a fucking losers bracket to play in -.- not like he just said fuck it and kept playing people after being eliminated
Don't you dare go blaming HyuN for Blizzard/MLG's Fuck ups!
nah he got a walkover for being late. Then he recorded a 2-0 win vs Ivy later on in the loser bracket. Then he got DQed and Ivy got a 1-0 advance. Then it got changed to HyuN 1-0. Then HyuN played the next guy. Then HyuN got DQed again. So he got 1) walked over for being late 2) DQed in the losers' bracket 3) reinstated somehow 4) DQed again in the next round
So both parties seem to be at fault here. Seriously, he got walked over because he was late for a WCS qualifier? Doesn't sound like he just innocently didn't know that he isn't allowed to play in the tournament if that's the level of interest he has for the tournament.
Yes, both parties are at fault. I don't buy the "HyuN was confused" because it's your fucking job, and ignorance is not an excuse. But MLG is who handled the applying process and brackets. If someone had to stop him from playing, was MLG. Hell, just a few pages into the LR thread, people were wondering why HyuN was playing. If you know jackshit about who should play, and check the brackets before being released, you would see HyuN and say "lol no". I don't know when the applying process ended to sign up for WCS NA, but i think players should sign up with their real IDs (x3 yoloswags, wtf) and those applicants should be cross checked by coordination of the different regions. I don't know how disconnected of the scene you can be to let HyuN play.
On April 21 2013 22:59 Koesader wrote: Pretty disappointed about the singular stream with Axes. And maybe the US people should try and qualify for the EU tourney instead next season
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if most NA players play on EU if the lag isn't as bad as Korea -> EU and NA just becomes a online Korea.
On April 21 2013 17:56 Waxangel wrote: rofl, they let HyuN play and actualyl eliminate people?
the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
Truly HyuNstoppable ;o
Says alot about Hyun as a person to
Yeah because I'm sure he knew the rules of WCS very well... just like every other player... Oh wait...
Blizzard botched this in every possible way with regards to handling information about their event.
A player in a major team that played in code S, that got 0 instructions. He got disqualified then just played his next match, yeah nothing fishy going on there.
Offcourse this is true that MLG/Blizzard admins made a big mistake, to let him play for 5 hours, then DQ him and needing to DQ him again, but i doubt he went in there all ignorant.
The first DQ wasn't a DQ it was a walk over loss for being LATE not because he played in Code S, and he kept playing because there is a fucking losers bracket to play in -.- not like he just said fuck it and kept playing people after being eliminated
Don't you dare go blaming HyuN for Blizzard/MLG's Fuck ups!
nah he got a walkover for being late. Then he recorded a 2-0 win vs Ivy later on in the loser bracket. Then he got DQed and Ivy got a 1-0 advance. Then it got changed to HyuN 1-0. Then HyuN played the next guy. Then HyuN got DQed again. So he got 1) walked over for being late 2) DQed in the losers' bracket 3) reinstated somehow 4) DQed again in the next round
Yeah Necro)Phagist( sounds like Hyun could not help it a single bit !
I don't like Hyun's mentality in this, he sure is at fault, then again if an Organisation makes blunder after blunder you have to wonder if they didn't deserve something like this comming there way.
I hope these are lessons learned well for next qualifiers.
tghey not allow other streams ? esl in europe had i think 10 streams simultanly ... how stupid is that
i am normaly an ESL shitter but i have to say, in every of that 6 points ESL and WCS EUROPE was FAR better ... sad that they not use a better system/admin/mods whatever on usa seems like old days where guys with no clue admin it
Every other esport community knew this before - you can not take online qualifiers/play seriously, now the SC2 guys learn the lesson as well. It does not matter how well organized, there is always a big questionable part to it that just makes these kinds of tournaments unappealing to many viewers.
On April 21 2013 23:10 Like a Boss wrote: Out of all the broadcasters out there, i feel that MLG is the least passionate about the game and most greedy.
Well, what did you expect? It is after all an american company...
On April 21 2013 21:53 JKM wrote: And I thought EU was badly run*, but WCS.NA seems so much worse off, especially with the issue of Chinese (and aussie?) players not getting to participate because of a ridiculous 512 player cap. I don't know who has the finger on the trigger at MLG regarding those choices, but it seems very stupid to limit the tournament like.
Their stream was run quite smoothly and overall I think Axslav and Axeltoss does a decent job, but I would've liked the option of choosing another stream to see other games!
* In retrospect it wasn't that bad actually, considering how short of a notice ESL probably had on the entire thing.
Nah, EU really wasn't run badly. I would have been great if Kaelaris have had a co-caster. But to have a 30 min delay because of a huuuge grid, some problems with too much traffic and changing one sign in with short timed notice. Not great, but endurable. Bracket was good, many streams, delay no too bad, good admins and great games.
On April 21 2013 23:10 Like a Boss wrote: Out of all the broadcasters out there, i feel that MLG is the least passionate about the game and most greedy.
Well, what did you expect? It is after all an american company...
EU randomly made their sign-in time for qualifier #2 40 minutes earlier without any prior warning and cut out a bunch of people
yet, that's the kind of mistake SC fans (who are good at feigning outrage) never have any lasting anger about unless Stephano is disqualified ors omething like that
8) letting MLG show us the bracket for 15 minutes without casting any games........ this was a frustrating moment it ruined my viewerexperience so much.. darn
On April 21 2013 23:29 Waxangel wrote: EU randomly made their sign-in time for qualifier #2 40 minutes earlier without any prior warning and cut out a bunch of people
yet, that's the kind of mistake SC fans (who are good at feigning outrage) never have any lasting anger about unless Stephano is disqualified ors omething like that
I think Wax the point, as was made in this thread, is though ESL were far from perfect they gave the players 4 chances which mitigated most of the criticism from the early sign up times on Qualifier #2. If you're only going to run one qualifier you're leaving yourself no room to maneuver. It's either flawless or a fuck up.
On April 21 2013 17:38 MVTaylor wrote: 1) Refusing to allow any community broadcasters to show any of the other games meaning matches such as NrGquasAr knocking JD down to the losers bracket will be reserved for their cast by replays broadcasts. Along with all the games for qualfiication from the Winners Bracket.
3) Taking 5 hours to disqualify Quantic HyuN as he is ineligible due to his participation in WCS KR Code S this season but only doing so after he has knocked out 4 people.
4) Banning people from channels who asked why the Chinese players were not entered in to the bracket.
Worth noting that while the ESL bracket was also a PITA compared to say, Challonge or Binary Beast it didn't force people to name themselves twice (Rootcaliber = Tubbythefat etc), was updated and had collapsible sections as opposed to having later stages off screen.
1. Is not as as big of a deal, I enjoyed yesterday's cast, I only really watch WR5-Wr6 games. I would have watched MLG coverage anyway. It is really about control of the product they have so you can't really fault them for that. But I feel like NASL could have casted, or the IPL staff they bought. (also why the heck has there been nothing for NASL?)
2. That has to be a check in thing, if you don't check in when the bracket caps you don';t get to play. Besides no offense to any one but I want to see NA players win a NA league. Players from China would just take the money back to China and not help grow NA scene. NA scene needs money to justify players trying.
3.That was super odd. First Hyun or his team manager should have known he shouldn't be playing in this, and next MLG admins gotta become more aware of SC II globally. WCS is a global event and it is good to know what everyone is doing and which players are in which league. Not hard to do.
4.Didn't see that happen much, so think your just complaining cause you got banned.
5.MLG bracket was terrible and always has been, Liquidpedia was fine. think your just complaining about anything.
6. It is fine if your doing double elim bracket that is a lot of games. And it appears like 7 koreans and one foreginer will get in. Opening up the bracket to bigger numbers doesn't matter the koreans are gonna get in. I Don't think you you realize how many games that is to play.
On April 21 2013 23:40 baldgye wrote: Every time I see a WSC thread I wonder; "how can it possibly be anymore of a cluster fuck?" ...and then I read the OP.
Kind of getting beyond a joke, looking like atm DreamHack is going to be the only good tournament series this year
I bet you that the WCS will match Dreamhack or any other major non-WCS tournament in viewers once we get further into the competition and the games really start to matter.
On April 21 2013 23:40 baldgye wrote: Every time I see a WSC thread I wonder; "how can it possibly be anymore of a cluster fuck?" ...and then I read the OP.
Kind of getting beyond a joke, looking like atm DreamHack is going to be the only good tournament series this year
I bet you that the WCS will match Dreamhack or any other major non-WCS tournament in viewers once we get further into the competition and the games really start to matter.
He didn't mention viewers... all he said was that DreamHack is going to be good, compared to WCS which has been pretty messy overall, more so in the NA side of things.
On April 21 2013 23:40 baldgye wrote: Every time I see a WSC thread I wonder; "how can it possibly be anymore of a cluster fuck?" ...and then I read the OP.
Kind of getting beyond a joke, looking like atm DreamHack is going to be the only good tournament series this year
I bet you that the WCS will match Dreamhack or any other major non-WCS tournament in viewers once we get further into the competition and the games really start to matter.
perhaps, only time will tell I guess, though I know I'm more interested in Dream Hack now than I was before WSC actually started.
can we add, ending the cast as we got towards the exciting games in the finals, and having no other set of casters allowed to finish out the night?
Now we either dont get to see the games, or they are casted from replays, both options stink. note: Axslav and Axeltoss did a great job, and casted for a long time. I would just like blizzard to contract out a second set of casters so we can get the whole day covered. I mean we missed all the exciting matches in the late rounds.
On April 21 2013 23:29 Waxangel wrote: EU randomly made their sign-in time for qualifier #2 40 minutes earlier without any prior warning and cut out a bunch of people
yet, that's the kind of mistake SC fans (who are good at feigning outrage) never have any lasting anger about unless Stephano is disqualified ors omething like that
only thing I will say about the EU version was that at least there was a whole bunch of streams so you could kinda pick and choose as you like... and then Rotty's 24hr marathon random cast was pretty epic. The NA one is just dull, its one game (out of hundreds) and if you don't like it, too bad and if there are better players or players you follow, too bad.
On April 22 2013 00:01 Luepert wrote: Maybe they should give NASL a chance...
NASL/Dreamhack is actually on the fast track to being the only decent League right now outside of Korea. Are they holding a League this year or did WCS kill them off completely.
On April 22 2013 00:01 Luepert wrote: Maybe they should give NASL a chance...
NASL is actually on the fast track to being the only decent League right now outside of Korea. Are they holding a League this year or did WCS kill them off completely.
DreamHack?
But yeah, we don't know anything for sure. It is pretty likely that WCS will cut into their viewercount/hype. :/
So this is the thread where we are outraged by something that happened during the qualifiers? What are we feigning outrage at about while we wait for the next set of matches to be played? That hackers are allowed into the event? I wasn't aware their wore signs or named their account "I r da hackertron". Or that the entire 512 match bracket wasn't broadcast for us all to see? Or that the games were run at a poor time for Korean players, because we all know MLG controls the sun.
On April 22 2013 00:01 Luepert wrote: Maybe they should give NASL a chance...
NASL is actually on the fast track to being the only decent League right now outside of Korea. Are they holding a League this year or did WCS kill them off completely.
DreamHack?
But yeah, we don't know anything for sure. It is pretty likely that WCS will cut into their viewercount/hype. :/
Not if mlg continues to make questionable decisions.
On April 21 2013 23:29 Waxangel wrote: EU randomly made their sign-in time for qualifier #2 40 minutes earlier without any prior warning and cut out a bunch of people
yet, that's the kind of mistake SC fans (who are good at feigning outrage) never have any lasting anger about unless Stephano is disqualified ors omething like that
There was a ton of backlash for it, what's your point?
ESL made up for it by having multiple qualifiers, even if their incompetence made you miss one you still had more chances.
On April 22 2013 00:01 Luepert wrote: Maybe they should give NASL a chance...
NASL is actually on the fast track to being the only decent League right now outside of Korea. Are they holding a League this year or did WCS kill them off completely.
DreamHack?
But yeah, we don't know anything for sure. It is pretty likely that WCS will cut into their viewercount/hype. :/
I'm more hyped for NASL than I am for WCS at this point unless they get their act together.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
On April 22 2013 00:01 Luepert wrote: Maybe they should give NASL a chance...
NASL is actually on the fast track to being the only decent League right now outside of Korea. Are they holding a League this year or did WCS kill them off completely.
DreamHack?
But yeah, we don't know anything for sure. It is pretty likely that WCS will cut into their viewercount/hype. :/
Not if mlg continues to make questionable decisions.
I don't really have a problem when the way MLG has been handling this. Code A qualifiers are barely broadcast too. It like complaining about the coverage of the preseason for baseball or the NLF draft. It shit that has to get done and not really designed for broadcast.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
So much this. WCS EU qualifiers were awesome, mostly because you could choose between ~10 games to watch or so (even if you didn't understand the language the casters were using, you could still watch the match you wanted live) - this freedom of choice added so much value to the thing.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time.
So 1 week ago ESL was pitchforked to do mistakes. How could anyone claim Dreamhack would do better online qualifiers? Now MLG fails miserable, I would say actually even more on the format. Who says NASL would have had a smarter format
I think people just need to wait and see instead of repeating other's complaints. For one, people are complaining about the qualifiers letting in non-resediential Americans, and then complain when some cannot get into the tournament. I believe most of people's problems will be fixed for next season, not next year. I feel people are getting confused on this and saying a year to overdramatize it. I'm in the wait and see category until the actual tournament starts.
On April 21 2013 20:46 Shellshock1122 wrote: the best part is he was listed as DQed. then he resurrected himself and knocked out the next person in the bracket and got DQed again
He should receive a spot in the NA premier league for this performance.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
Exactly, ESL went smoothly. Maybe they were expecting more from main ESL stream, but since there were community stream as well it was all good.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time.
You're just being jaded. This is no pass-time, several of these issues have their own threads and reddit pages too. Instead, you should bother to read the first few pages and see that MLG has made some rather inexcusable mistakes. I think the arbitrary exclusion of registered Chinese pros while known hackers/low level players/ineligible players were admitted casts doubt on the validity of all the results so far.
Not to mention, your own arguments make no sense. How do community casters delay the matches in any significant way? They would cast games at the same time as the MLG casters.
On April 22 2013 00:01 Luepert wrote: Maybe they should give NASL a chance...
NASL is actually on the fast track to being the only decent League right now outside of Korea. Are they holding a League this year or did WCS kill them off completely.
DreamHack?
But yeah, we don't know anything for sure. It is pretty likely that WCS will cut into their viewercount/hype. :/
Not if mlg continues to make questionable decisions.
I don't really have a problem when the way MLG has been handling this. Code A qualifiers are barely broadcast too. It like complaining about the coverage of the preseason for baseball or the NLF draft. It shit that has to get done and not really designed for broadcast.
These aren't Code A qualifiers, they're the Premier qualifiers, for the WCS NA equivalent of GSL Code S.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time.
You're just being jaded. This is no pass-time, several of these issues have their own threads and reddit pages too. Instead, you should bother to read the first few pages and see that MLG has made some rather inexcusable mistakes. I think the arbitrary exclusion of registered Chinese pros while known hackers/low level players/ineligible players were admitted casts doubt on the validity of all the results so far.
Not to mention, your own arguments make no sense. How do community casters delay the matches in any significant way? They would cast games at the same time as the MLG casters.
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation.
At first I didn't believe this shit, but now I'm starting to realize how much MLG fucked up! It's quite hard to comprehend that when given so much responsibility they abuse the shit out of it, banning people asking about the chinese players.
It almost feels like people need to step up and say NO! Turn off their stream and tell MLG they don't deserve money or attention when they fuck up for participants in the tournament and even the community people. But MLG has that covered by being the only streamer so it's their stream or no stream, I'm gonna choose no stream and throw my money and time at dreamhack instead.
Why is there no unison between these leagues? Why are ESL and MLG responsible for brackets, rules, qualification process, invites or anything. The only thing these two organization should be doing is airing, and casting the matches.
Something that should be epic is turning into the laughing stock of e-sports. What a fucking joke
On April 22 2013 00:41 magnaflow wrote: Why is there no unison between these leagues? Why are ESL and MLG responsible for brackets, rules, qualification process, invites or anything. The only thing these two organization should be doing is airing, and casting the matches.
Something that should be epic is turning into the laughing stock of e-sports. What a fucking joke
No, they are running the events too. Blizzard is not handling the brackets or qualifications.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time.
You're just being jaded. This is no pass-time, several of these issues have their own threads and reddit pages too. Instead, you should bother to read the first few pages and see that MLG has made some rather inexcusable mistakes. I think the arbitrary exclusion of registered Chinese pros while known hackers/low level players/ineligible players were admitted casts doubt on the validity of all the results so far.
Not to mention, your own arguments make no sense. How do community casters delay the matches in any significant way? They would cast games at the same time as the MLG casters.
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation.
I find that MLG really sux because they allready have code s etcetc.. these are just qualifiers, nothing more... why not give the community the possibility to watch there fanfavorites... MLG just want revenue all for themselves... they should have had more channels and if they cant provide in more, let the communicty cast some qualifiers.. would have been best!
Negatives from yesterday: Seems like quite a cluster fuck, I feel for the players. The people who are most dedicated to Blizzard's cause are getting screwed by lack of organization/terrible decision making.
Positives from yesterday: ...it can't get any WORSE, could it? I hope Blizzard learns from their (MASSIVE) mistakes.
On April 22 2013 00:41 magnaflow wrote: Why is there no unison between these leagues? Why are ESL and MLG responsible for brackets, rules, qualification process, invites or anything. The only thing these two organization should be doing is airing, and casting the matches.
Something that should be epic is turning into the laughing stock of e-sports. What a fucking joke
Blizzard may have introduced a system to unify the player scene such as points and a common event structure but that doesn't mean that the event holders themselves understands this or even wants it to happen.
EU has no problem with this since we already are "communists" and are quite used to share everything and be like one, and all that shit. US however, like MLG, are more used to the opposite model of doggy doggy world, take what you can get and see everyone else as competition. And this view has not changed from the standpoint of MLG. That's the reason why they don't want to share "their" content, such as the qualifier, to the competition, such as NASL.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time.
You're just being jaded. This is no pass-time, several of these issues have their own threads and reddit pages too. Instead, you should bother to read the first few pages and see that MLG has made some rather inexcusable mistakes. I think the arbitrary exclusion of registered Chinese pros while known hackers/low level players/ineligible players were admitted casts doubt on the validity of all the results so far.
Not to mention, your own arguments make no sense. How do community casters delay the matches in any significant way? They would cast games at the same time as the MLG casters.
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation.
I find that MLG really sux because they allready have code s etcetc.. these are just qualifiers, nothing more... why not give the community the possibility to watch there fanfavorites... MLG just want revenue all for themselves... they should have had more channels and if they cant provide in more, let the communicty cast some qualifiers.. would have been best!
Blizzard has a rule that WSC games must be broadcast on WCS approved channels. Both MLG, NASL and ELS have confirmed this. I am sure that is to keep the viewers in one place to they can provide accurate numbers to sponsors and market the event. They might change that rule for season 2, but right now only WSC official channels can broadcast the matches.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
I enjoyed it quite a lot too, but man there was a lot of whine at the beginning of the week
On April 22 2013 00:51 namste wrote: One of the many reasons why NASL is much better than MLG.
errrrr, let's say that after NASL holds more than 1 live event that draws anything near an MLG crowd D:
that said NASL's studio content has been great =o
MLG's online content has got *nothing* on NASL's... Hell NASL have held better online qualifiers in the past, going all the way back to the qualifier for the last spot of NASL Season 1 Grand Finals.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
Of course he is, all of his players have already, or have a great chance of qualifying.
On April 22 2013 00:51 namste wrote: One of the many reasons why NASL is much better than MLG.
errrrr, let's say that after NASL holds more than 1 live event that draws anything near an MLG crowd D:
that said NASL's studio content has been great =o
MLG's online content has got *nothing* on NASL's... Hell NASL have held better online qualifiers in the past, going all the way back to the qualifier for the last spot of NASL Season 1 Grand Finals.
They also didn't have free qualifiers. They have always charged for people to try out. Also, you have having some selective memory of NASL season one if you think that thing was better than this. I don't even think they had qualifiers for season one. Players applied for season one.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time.
You're just being jaded. This is no pass-time, several of these issues have their own threads and reddit pages too. Instead, you should bother to read the first few pages and see that MLG has made some rather inexcusable mistakes. I think the arbitrary exclusion of registered Chinese pros while known hackers/low level players/ineligible players were admitted casts doubt on the validity of all the results so far.
Not to mention, your own arguments make no sense. How do community casters delay the matches in any significant way? They would cast games at the same time as the MLG casters.
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation.
I find that MLG really sux because they allready have code s etcetc.. these are just qualifiers, nothing more... why not give the community the possibility to watch there fanfavorites... MLG just want revenue all for themselves... they should have had more channels and if they cant provide in more, let the communicty cast some qualifiers.. would have been best!
Blizzard has a rule that WSC games must be broadcast on WCS approved channels. Both MLG, NASL and ELS have confirmed this. I am sure that is to keep the viewers in one place to they can provide accurate numbers to sponsors and market the event. They might change that rule for season 2, but right now only WSC official channels can broadcast the matches.
Please give WCS to NASL . Thanks to the OP for putting together these issues. Do we have any word from Blizzard or the tournament organizers re: this fiasco?
On April 22 2013 00:51 namste wrote: One of the many reasons why NASL is much better than MLG.
errrrr, let's say that after NASL holds more than 1 live event that draws anything near an MLG crowd D:
that said NASL's studio content has been great =o
MLG's online content has got *nothing* on NASL's... Hell NASL have held better online qualifiers in the past, going all the way back to the qualifier for the last spot of NASL Season 1 Grand Finals.
They also didn't have free qualifiers. They have always charged for people to try out. Also, you have having some selective memory of NASL season one if you think that thing was better than this. I don't even think they had qualifiers for season one. Players applied for season one.
Read what I said again. After the group stages had finished, they were left with 15 players and held an online open qualifier to determine the last seed. (which ended up going to PuMa) That qualifier went a lot better than this one, is what I was getting at.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time.
You're just being jaded. This is no pass-time, several of these issues have their own threads and reddit pages too. Instead, you should bother to read the first few pages and see that MLG has made some rather inexcusable mistakes. I think the arbitrary exclusion of registered Chinese pros while known hackers/low level players/ineligible players were admitted casts doubt on the validity of all the results so far.
Not to mention, your own arguments make no sense. How do community casters delay the matches in any significant way? They would cast games at the same time as the MLG casters.
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation.
I find that MLG really sux because they allready have code s etcetc.. these are just qualifiers, nothing more... why not give the community the possibility to watch there fanfavorites... MLG just want revenue all for themselves... they should have had more channels and if they cant provide in more, let the communicty cast some qualifiers.. would have been best!
Blizzard has a rule that WSC games must be broadcast on WCS approved channels. Both MLG, NASL and ELS have confirmed this. I am sure that is to keep the viewers in one place to they can provide accurate numbers to sponsors and market the event. They might change that rule for season 2, but right now only WSC official channels can broadcast the matches.
esl had 15 streams... gimme 15 then..
I'd be happy to settle for 4 streams.
Don't tell Blizzard or MLG that yet though, we'll start negotiations at 15. I still can't believe I watched Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio on MLG's one and only stream...
On April 22 2013 00:51 namste wrote: One of the many reasons why NASL is much better than MLG.
errrrr, let's say that after NASL holds more than 1 live event that draws anything near an MLG crowd D:
that said NASL's studio content has been great =o
MLG's online content has got *nothing* on NASL's... Hell NASL have held better online qualifiers in the past, going all the way back to the qualifier for the last spot of NASL Season 1 Grand Finals.
They also didn't have free qualifiers. They have always charged for people to try out. Also, you have having some selective memory of NASL season one if you think that thing was better than this. I don't even think they had qualifiers for season one. Players applied for season one.
Read what I said again. After the group stages had finished, they were left with 15 players and held an online open qualifier to determine the last seed. (which ended up going to PuMa) That qualifier went a lot better than this one, is what I was getting at.
Well that's great, but they still invited everyone to season 1. There were no qualifiers at all for that season. They also charge money to prevent gold leaguers from flooding the qualifiers, which is what happened hear.
And if you are going to compare NASL season 1 and 2 to the MGL qualifiers last night, I am going to politely ask that you go back 3 years and watch those VODs and refresh your memory.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
I don't understand why people didn't like the job ESL did with WCS EU. The event was well run, and I enjoyed it a lot. I don't think Dreamhack would have done any better.
MLG has just put so many restrictions and I had to watch Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio, instead of an actually competitve match because MLG didn't allow community casters...
Because this is the thread where we act outraged about stuff and complain about things while we wait for the next thing to complain about. There is nothing to watch right now, so this is how we pass our time. And the reason the community casters weren't used was because they had to make it through all those matches in a reasonable period of time.
You're just being jaded. This is no pass-time, several of these issues have their own threads and reddit pages too. Instead, you should bother to read the first few pages and see that MLG has made some rather inexcusable mistakes. I think the arbitrary exclusion of registered Chinese pros while known hackers/low level players/ineligible players were admitted casts doubt on the validity of all the results so far.
Not to mention, your own arguments make no sense. How do community casters delay the matches in any significant way? They would cast games at the same time as the MLG casters.
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation.
I find that MLG really sux because they allready have code s etcetc.. these are just qualifiers, nothing more... why not give the community the possibility to watch there fanfavorites... MLG just want revenue all for themselves... they should have had more channels and if they cant provide in more, let the communicty cast some qualifiers.. would have been best!
Blizzard has a rule that WSC games must be broadcast on WCS approved channels. Both MLG, NASL and ELS have confirmed this. I am sure that is to keep the viewers in one place to they can provide accurate numbers to sponsors and market the event. They might change that rule for season 2, but right now only WSC official channels can broadcast the matches.
esl had 15 streams... gimme 15 then..
I'd be happy to settle for 4 streams.
Don't tell Blizzard or MLG that yet though, we'll start negotiations at 15. I still can't believe I watched Gretorp play Protoss versus Zenio on MLG's one and only stream...
Indeed 4 MLG streams would be good also.. atleast u have a choice..
The big difference between ESL and MLG is that ESL saw that this qualifier was so immense, they needed more channels and they chose to ask help from the community to broadcast this event properly. MLG on the other hand, had $$ in there eyes i thought... wow 30k viewers... i want all ad-income in 1 stream because its cheaper then ads over 4/5 streams... thats basically it. Ofcourse they will say they cant garantee the quality of there product etcetc.. but its bullshit because the quality could not get any lower after watching the bracket for 15 minutes...
On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote: Well that's great, but they still invited everyone to season 1. There were no qualifiers at all for that season.
That's irrelevant. The point is that NASL can hold online tournaments, including large bracket qualifiers, much better than MLG.
On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote: And if you are going to compare NASL season 1 and 2 to the MGL qualifiers last night, I am going to politely ask that you go back 3 years and watch those VODs and refresh your memory.
What are you trying to say? That the games weren't as good? That is, once again, irrelevant to the fact that MLG have done a piss poor job in terms of organizing and managing the event.
On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote: And if you are going to compare NASL season 1 and 2 to the MGL qualifiers last night, I am going to politely ask that you go back 3 years and watch those VODs and refresh your memory.
What are you trying to say? That the games weren't as good? That is, once again, irrelevant to the fact that MLG have done a piss poor job.
I disagree in every way. The qualifier bracket for NASL was never 1,000 players. And they ran an open qualifier where they charged people to try out so they only had professional players who cared about the event. MLG didn't do that because the community LOST THEIR MINDS when they tried to charge $20. The production for the first two seasons of NASL was piss poor too. There is a reason we make jokes about the NASL sound guy.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote: Well that's great, but they still invited everyone to season 1. There were no qualifiers at all for that season.
That's irrelevant. The point is that NASL can hold online tournaments, including large bracket qualifiers, much better than MLG.
On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote: And if you are going to compare NASL season 1 and 2 to the MGL qualifiers last night, I am going to politely ask that you go back 3 years and watch those VODs and refresh your memory.
What are you trying to say? That the games weren't as good? That is, once again, irrelevant to the fact that MLG have done a piss poor job.
I disagree in every way. The qualifier bracket for NASL was never 1,000 players. And they ran an open qualifier where they charged people to try out so they only had professional players who cared about the event. MLG didn't do that because the community LOST THEIR MINDS when they tried to charge $20. The production for the first two seasons of NASL was piss poor too. There is a reason we make jokes about the NASL sound guy.
The production for the offline events. Nobody is complaining about MLG's offline tournaments here. Ideally Blizzard should've used one company for the qualifiers and another for the LAN finals.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote: Well that's great, but they still invited everyone to season 1. There were no qualifiers at all for that season.
That's irrelevant. The point is that NASL can hold online tournaments, including large bracket qualifiers, much better than MLG.
On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote: And if you are going to compare NASL season 1 and 2 to the MGL qualifiers last night, I am going to politely ask that you go back 3 years and watch those VODs and refresh your memory.
What are you trying to say? That the games weren't as good? That is, once again, irrelevant to the fact that MLG have done a piss poor job.
I disagree in every way. The qualifier bracket for NASL was never 1,000 players. And they ran an open qualifier where they charged people to try out so they only had professional players who cared about the event. MLG didn't do that because the community LOST THEIR MINDS when they tried to charge $20. The production for the first two seasons of NASL was piss poor too. There is a reason we make jokes about the NASL sound guy.
The production for the offline events. Nobody is complaining about MLG's offline tournaments here. Ideally Blizzard should've used one company for the qualifiers and another for the LAN finals.
The production for NASL season 1 and 2, online and off, sucked. It was terrible. Last night was way better than anything I saw in season 1 or 2 of NASL.
On April 22 2013 01:15 Plansix wrote: And if you are going to compare NASL season 1 and 2 to the MGL qualifiers last night, I am going to politely ask that you go back 3 years and watch those VODs and refresh your memory.
What are you trying to say? That the games weren't as good? That is, once again, irrelevant to the fact that MLG have done a piss poor job in terms of organizing and managing the event.
He is trying to say that NASL Season 1, which was run by a people who have had never put on an event before and didn't know what they were doing, was terribly organized and produced. Then he is comparing that event to this WCS qualifier.
Which is pretty funny. I very much doubt that even any of the NASL guys would try to argue that Season 1 was organized well, but that was a very long time ago. Comparing a season that started over two years ago, to an event that happened yesterday. They have come a loooonnng way since then. Comparing the stream from yesterday to what I've randomly turned on from NASL in the past, I would have much MUCH rather have watched NASL doing it.
Now, it's quite possible that NASL wouldn't be able to match once WCS moves to the live portion, but that's not what I was watching yesterday. I didn't enjoy the casting, it seemed jilted and confused. It felt downright awkward at first when TotalBiscuit came on, where to me it seemed like the MLG casters didn't really know what to say or do, and TotalBiscuit SEEMED like he wasn't sure if he should just jump in or not. Props to him for doing so though, once he did for the first time and after the initial awkward silence response things started to roll along nicely. I am well aware that this was a very long cast, and fatigue could easily have and probably did play a very big role here in the casting, but shouldn't they have prepared for that? NASL have two sets of casters so they can swap out and get some rest. MLG should too.
All this said, I don't even watch NASL. I've watched their studio content probably less than half a dozen times. Now a days I tend to only manage to catch the big tournaments, and review the results of everything else. Maybe this is a sign that I should though, because from what I've seen those guys put a lot themselves into what they do, and judging by what has been happening recently, probably need the support...
Some of the complaints are valid, but a 512 man double elim bracket with bo3's is way better than 3 single elim bo1 qualifiers imo, so long as there are standards for who is allowed to register (masters and up, or entry fee)
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
I dont't think you can blame them for every single one of these points. "allowing in hackers"? They probably didnt know that these people are hackers. People make mistakes, not everything can always run smoothly. You also forgot to mention what they did right.
Other than that: Good thread. Also, I think not allowing other casters/streams to cover additional games definitely deserves rank 1! This is a very bad move by blizzard and it cannot be adressed enough.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
True enough, can't really disagree on anything you said here. Maybe I should have just stayed quiet here as I'm neither part of NA scene (being from Sweden) and don't have the full insight into stuff so I'll just step aside here before I say something else silly
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
Welcome to both the internet and the land of entitlement, a nasty combination.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
True enough, can't really disagree on anything you said here. Maybe I should have just stayed quiet here as I'm neither part of NA scene (being from Sweden) and don't have the full insight into stuff so I'll just step aside here before I say something else silly
Depends on what topic. I am also from EU and i am a viewer of this qualifier. I dislike how the broadcasting is done for qualifier till now, seeing what we got from ESL. We can comment as consumers there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion and giving feedback.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
True enough, can't really disagree on anything you said here. Maybe I should have just stayed quiet here as I'm neither part of NA scene (being from Sweden) and don't have the full insight into stuff so I'll just step aside here before I say something else silly
Depends on what topic. I am also from EU and i am a viewer of this qualifier. I dislike how the broadcasting is done for qualifier till now, seeing what we got from ESL. We can comment as consumers there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion and giving feedback.
You liked what you got from ESL?
Be honest, it's because of the player pool and not the format, right? 1000+ man single elim best of 1 is the stupidest format for players that could possible exist, let alone all the screwups in scheduling. Don't care if it's 'exciting', it's not conducive to competition.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
True enough, can't really disagree on anything you said here. Maybe I should have just stayed quiet here as I'm neither part of NA scene (being from Sweden) and don't have the full insight into stuff so I'll just step aside here before I say something else silly
Depends on what topic. I am also from EU and i am a viewer of this qualifier. I dislike how the broadcasting is done for qualifier till now, seeing what we got from ESL. We can comment as consumers there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion and giving feedback.
You liked what you got from ESL?
Be honest, it's because of the player pool and not the format, right? 1000+ man single elim best of 1 is the stupidest format for players that could possible exist, let alone all the screwups in scheduling. Don't care if it's 'exciting', it's not conducive to competition.
Read dude.... I said consumer... not tournament director.. i only care about what i can view and follow.. the rest i dont care bout much... readddddd....
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
Yes, there is too much drama and yes, some of these points are exaggerated or overly critical.
But not all of them. I can't see any logical approach to argue that not allowing community streams despite having just one official stream is just fine. It is not. Yesterday could have had twice the viewer numbers if additional games had been covered by additional streams. It would have been better for the community, better for esports, better for the players, better for the casters. This was/is a big misstep by Blizzard.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
True enough, can't really disagree on anything you said here. Maybe I should have just stayed quiet here as I'm neither part of NA scene (being from Sweden) and don't have the full insight into stuff so I'll just step aside here before I say something else silly
Depends on what topic. I am also from EU and i am a viewer of this qualifier. I dislike how the broadcasting is done for qualifier till now, seeing what we got from ESL. We can comment as consumers there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion and giving feedback.
You liked what you got from ESL?
Be honest, it's because of the player pool and not the format, right? 1000+ man single elim best of 1 is the stupidest format for players that could possible exist, let alone all the screwups in scheduling. Don't care if it's 'exciting', it's not conducive to competition.
for the millionth time, it was BO3 from RO128 onwards. Seeding was excellent, so encounters between serious contenders before RO128 was very limited, and there were four cups, so for the most part, it was very fair. There was one screw up in scheduling, on the 2nd day, and I don't know of any pro who was left out. I saw HappyZerg talking about it, but then I saw him in the bracket. So yes, I very much liked what I got from ESL. I could follow more than one game at once as well. I had 5 streams open at one point.
On April 22 2013 02:00 Inimic wrote: This is wonderful. Next time I tell my friends about Starcraft and Esports, they can talk to me about the mainstage-sideshow that WCS has been so far.
That´s a sign that esport grows.. right? Right? ... =(
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
True enough, can't really disagree on anything you said here. Maybe I should have just stayed quiet here as I'm neither part of NA scene (being from Sweden) and don't have the full insight into stuff so I'll just step aside here before I say something else silly
Depends on what topic. I am also from EU and i am a viewer of this qualifier. I dislike how the broadcasting is done for qualifier till now, seeing what we got from ESL. We can comment as consumers there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion and giving feedback.
You liked what you got from ESL?
Be honest, it's because of the player pool and not the format, right? 1000+ man single elim best of 1 is the stupidest format for players that could possible exist, let alone all the screwups in scheduling. Don't care if it's 'exciting', it's not conducive to competition.
for the millionth time, it was BO3 from RO128 onwards. Seeding was excellent, so encounters between serious contenders before RO128 was very limited, and there were four cups, so for the most part, it was very fair. There was one screw up in scheduling, on the 2nd day, and I don't know of any pro who was left out. I saw HappyZerg talking about it, but then I saw him in the bracket. So yes, I very much liked what I got from ESL. I could follow more than one game at once as well. I had 5 streams open at one point.
Yeah to me this was the advantage ESL had, no games on the main stream ? open up a second ? hell open up 5+ and there we go constant games flooding in.
I can understand MLG wanting a monopoly, but perhaps talking with NASL and combining the games between studio's isn't a bad idea considering NASL has a great studio for this. More options to viewers is creating goodwill is win.
+ poor NASL would not need to send out World of Tanks or Dota2 while there is a big Dota2 tournament going on aswell.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
Yes, there is too much drama and yes, some of these points are exaggerated or overly critical.
But not all of them. I can't see any logical approach to argue that not allowing community streams despite having just one official stream is just fine. It is not. Yesterday could have had twice the viewer numbers if additional games had been covered by additional streams. It would have been better for the community, better for esports, better for the players, better for the casters. This was/is a big misstep by Blizzard.
The more people complain about it, the better.
Complaining is fine, but there is a difference between:
"Man those games last night were fun. It would awesome if MLG had more of them on stream. Right Sundance? Can we make that happen?"
and:
"MLG is a disgrace. ELS had 15 streams on and everyone got to play(no facts to back that up, so it must be true). I know that MLG is a money hungry monopoly and only wanted one stream, but they should have let anyone who wanted to cast the matchs. Outraged, disappointed, and disgusted with MLG. They have lost my money for this(forgetting that the stream is free)"
One I have no problem with. The other I will call what it is: "Internet Outrage" - the most dishonest form of outrage.
MLG is teabagging all of us, and some of you are congratulating them for it. Stop it! There are a lot of pro's lives who are being affected by this, not to mention stagnation of esports in general when this sort of thing goes on.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
Yes, there is too much drama and yes, some of these points are exaggerated or overly critical.
But not all of them. I can't see any logical approach to argue that not allowing community streams despite having just one official stream is just fine. It is not. Yesterday could have had twice the viewer numbers if additional games had been covered by additional streams. It would have been better for the community, better for esports, better for the players, better for the casters. This was/is a big misstep by Blizzard.
The more people complain about it, the better.
Complaining is fine, but there is a difference between:
"Man those games last night were fun. It would awesome if MLG had more of them on stream. Right Sundance? Can we make that happen?"
and:
"MLG is a disgrace. ELS had 15 streams on and everyone got to play(no facts to back that up, so it must be true). I know that MLG is a money hungry monopoly and only wanted one stream, but they should have let anyone who wanted to cast the matchs. Outraged, disappointed, and disgusted with MLG. They have lost my money for this(forgetting that the stream is free)"
One I have no problem with. The other I will call what it is: "Internet Outrage" - the most dishonest form of outrage.
Frame it how u want.. facts stays the same.... alot of peeps want to watch there favorites or want to follow more matches then 1....
add 7) stream lag like shit and no other to watch xD
On April 22 2013 03:00 Inimic wrote: MLG is teabagging all of us, and some of you are congratulating them for it. Stop it! There are a lot of pro's lives who are being affected by this, not to mention stagnation of esports in general when this sort of thing goes on.
jaeh beacuse
1.) STUDIO; the NASL studio looks prof, the mlg stuff looks ... like i did it xD 2.) CASTERS; i like axlav BUT ... the caster duo is so much worse then rotterdam bitter in casting / fun having etc, it looks like a gamer (axlav) who isnt rly best at casting and a not that high caster (axeltoss) together, they decent no question but not worldclass 3.) also i dont know ... i get bored from mlg casts so fast xD nasl does so much fun stuff around always
I agree with everything the OP said. The only excuse they have is that this tournament was designed by Blizzard just a few months ago, so they probably lacked the time to make everything work as it should. I am confident the next season's qualifiers will improve in each and every aspect.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
Yes, there is too much drama and yes, some of these points are exaggerated or overly critical.
But not all of them. I can't see any logical approach to argue that not allowing community streams despite having just one official stream is just fine. It is not. Yesterday could have had twice the viewer numbers if additional games had been covered by additional streams. It would have been better for the community, better for esports, better for the players, better for the casters. This was/is a big misstep by Blizzard.
The more people complain about it, the better.
Complaining is fine, but there is a difference between:
"Man those games last night were fun. It would awesome if MLG had more of them on stream. Right Sundance? Can we make that happen?"
and:
"MLG is a disgrace. ELS had 15 streams on and everyone got to play(no facts to back that up, so it must be true). I know that MLG is a money hungry monopoly and only wanted one stream, but they should have let anyone who wanted to cast the matchs. Outraged, disappointed, and disgusted with MLG. They have lost my money for this(forgetting that the stream is free)"
One I have no problem with. The other I will call what it is: "Internet Outrage" - the most dishonest form of outrage.
Frame it how u want.. facts stays the same.... alot of peeps want to watch there favorites or want to follow more matches then 1....
Ok, well there will be more qualifiers in a few months because season 1 ends in June. Hopefully they will hear you have have more streams then. It is, in fact, possible to ask nicely for things and not sound like an unreasonable and entitled.
On April 22 2013 03:02 Ender985 wrote: I agree with everything the OP said. The only excuse they have is that this tournament was designed by Blizzard just a few months ago, so they probably lacked the time to make everything work as it should. I am confident the next season's qualifiers will improve in each and every aspect.
few month ago ...
well that should be enough tio make atleast a decent decision, and if you not HAVE enough manpower ... BE MAN and allow others to cast you not need allow NASL or a concurent like ESL also not wanted but some rnd streams in other languages ... doesnt hurt anyone
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
Yes, there is too much drama and yes, some of these points are exaggerated or overly critical.
But not all of them. I can't see any logical approach to argue that not allowing community streams despite having just one official stream is just fine. It is not. Yesterday could have had twice the viewer numbers if additional games had been covered by additional streams. It would have been better for the community, better for esports, better for the players, better for the casters. This was/is a big misstep by Blizzard.
The more people complain about it, the better.
Complaining is fine, but there is a difference between:
"Man those games last night were fun. It would awesome if MLG had more of them on stream. Right Sundance? Can we make that happen?"
and:
"MLG is a disgrace. ELS had 15 streams on and everyone got to play(no facts to back that up, so it must be true). I know that MLG is a money hungry monopoly and only wanted one stream, but they should have let anyone who wanted to cast the matchs. Outraged, disappointed, and disgusted with MLG. They have lost my money for this(forgetting that the stream is free)"
One I have no problem with. The other I will call what it is: "Internet Outrage" - the most dishonest form of outrage.
Frame it how u want.. facts stays the same.... alot of peeps want to watch there favorites or want to follow more matches then 1....
Ok, well there will be more qualifiers in a few months because season 1 ends in June. Hopefully they will hear you have have more streams then. It is, in fact, possible to ask nicely for things and not sound like an unreasonable and entitled.
Dude. I get your angle, I really do. But you can't expect people to remain civil and understanding of MLG when they manage to fuck up in so many different ways.
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
Yes, there is too much drama and yes, some of these points are exaggerated or overly critical.
But not all of them. I can't see any logical approach to argue that not allowing community streams despite having just one official stream is just fine. It is not. Yesterday could have had twice the viewer numbers if additional games had been covered by additional streams. It would have been better for the community, better for esports, better for the players, better for the casters. This was/is a big misstep by Blizzard.
The more people complain about it, the better.
Complaining is fine, but there is a difference between:
"Man those games last night were fun. It would awesome if MLG had more of them on stream. Right Sundance? Can we make that happen?"
and:
"MLG is a disgrace. ELS had 15 streams on and everyone got to play(no facts to back that up, so it must be true). I know that MLG is a money hungry monopoly and only wanted one stream, but they should have let anyone who wanted to cast the matchs. Outraged, disappointed, and disgusted with MLG. They have lost my money for this(forgetting that the stream is free)"
One I have no problem with. The other I will call what it is: "Internet Outrage" - the most dishonest form of outrage.
Frame it how u want.. facts stays the same.... alot of peeps want to watch there favorites or want to follow more matches then 1....
Ok, well there will be more qualifiers in a few months because season 1 ends in June. Hopefully they will hear you have have more streams then. It is, in fact, possible to ask nicely for things and not sound like an unreasonable and entitled.
The "Lower Tier" players that entered and raced to be part of the qualifier aren't really even lower tier, its more like "why the hell are you taking spots from someone who deserves it?". I know a few diamond and plat players who decided it would be a good idea to try to play in the qualifier because they think they're good enough to do so. There should be a league cap. By league cap, I don't mean "MASTERS OR GTFO", I mean "MASTERS WITH AT LEAST 1300 POINTS OR GTFO".
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
oh ye, TB the level headed logician.
"the community caused the mass of gold leaguers because they refused a sign up fee"
like those are the only 2 options. heres 1 solution purely off the top of my head which just seems more logical. use the ladder as a qualifier for wcs. to enter wcs you must be a top 25 masters player of the region you want to enter. there, now everyone can enter because everyone can get to masters, and theres no random players with literally 0 hope of qualifying. that was hard.
all these complaints, its easy to just blame the community for losing their mind, but every single one of them has been real legitimate complaints. there hasnt been a mass hysteria which turned out to be unfounded, its just that blizzard and their chosen WCS partners have gotten so much wrong its almost unbelievable. except that its not unbeleivable because both companies have a history of not engaging with the community, and making event ruining errors.
it seems to be more and more obvious that blizzard is 0/2 in choosing the correct partners for each region, and total biscuit sticking up for them within hours of being paid to cast some games for them (the timing is truly shocking /s) does nothing to change that.
I actually like Axlav a lot. Or is it axeltoss? I mean the guy who knows a lot of stuff, not the well groomed co-caster, who is a good co-caster. Their names are inconveniently similar.
Though they did refer to Jon Snow as a talented masters player... when really, had they bothered to look it up, they would have seen he was a rank 18 NA GM...
By the way, where's ROOTKane? Why haven't I been able to find him in this tourney?
I actually like Axlav a lot. Or is it axeltoss? I mean the guy who knows a lot of stuff, not the well groomed co-caster, who is a good co-caster. Their names are inconveniently similar.
Though they did refer to Jon Snow as a talented masters player... when really, had they bothered to look it up, they would have seen he was a rank 18 NA GM...
By the way, where's ROOTKane? Why haven't I been able to find him in this tourney?
he is one of the players listed as xxxYOLOSWAGxxx or something in the MLG bracket. it appears he was knocked out by the Taiwanese zerg Ian plays for this team http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Yoe_Ironmen
I actually like Axlav a lot. Or is it axeltoss? I mean the guy who knows a lot of stuff, not the well groomed co-caster, who is a good co-caster. Their names are inconveniently similar.
Though they did refer to Jon Snow as a talented masters player... when really, had they bothered to look it up, they would have seen he was a rank 18 NA GM...
By the way, where's ROOTKane? Why haven't I been able to find him in this tourney?
Because he was yoloswag number 3 or something like that. That's one of the things that bothered me to be honest. Enforce a policy that makes the players to use their battlenet ID's to join. SKTFarting was just the tip of the iceberg. Trying to check the brackets with the hordes of nonsense nicknames....
I guess that MLG is doing this to get all the viewers for themselves, unless there's something I'm missing. Which is quite stupid because if one of tournaments' goals is to get that famous "storyline" many people seem to talk about this is exactly how you shouldn't act, since people will miss a lot of games, especially if no namers or dark horses are involved.
Also, the China players thing makes me frown - admitting that is 100% accurate, of course. Luckly enough there are a lot of other tournaments going on at the same time, so it's not like people who want to see some SC2 are bound to starve!
I am really surprised and somewhat shocked that it took them so long to catch Hyun, especially since he is Code S. Dragon was caught competing in WCS EU qualifier #4 (probably the one with the most problems due to bracket issues) after his first match, giving them time to inform his opponent, who he had just defeated. Although Dragon's stream is pretty famous, he only competed in Code B this season and lost his first match 2-0. So I'm not really sure if I should be really impressed my ESL's watchful eyes or staggered by MLG's massive oversight. Probably both.
On April 22 2013 03:16 grs wrote: While tabbing between the ATC and the WCS AM qualifier, I noticed some cultural difference in presentation of the events.
One is formal and one isn't? You always had to dress formal and look professional for MLG.
On April 22 2013 03:16 grs wrote: While tabbing between the ATC and the WCS AM qualifier, I noticed some cultural difference in presentation of the events.
One is formal and one isn't? You always had to dress formal and look professional for MLG.
Also, i gotta admit i like Axeltoss tie/shirt colour combo :o
On April 22 2013 03:16 grs wrote: While tabbing between the ATC and the WCS AM qualifier, I noticed some cultural difference in presentation of the events.
One is formal and one isn't? You always had to dress formal and look professional for MLG.
The "Murican" way? Both are ok. I like the relaxed atmosphere at taketv.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
i think everyone who have followed SC2 tournaments lately was disappointed with the pics for WCS.
Dreamhack and NASL was obviously the correct choices. Look at the WCS NASL arranged vs WCS NA by MLG. And look at WCS Europe etc.
Clearly the two best arrangers got punished by the glory that is capitalism.
On April 22 2013 03:16 grs wrote: While tabbing between the ATC and the WCS AM qualifier, I noticed some cultural difference in presentation of the events.
One is formal and one isn't? You always had to dress formal and look professional for MLG.
MLG try to copy the "professional" korean shows, while in europe we prefer the relaxed atmosphere, there is no reason to look like a banker for a gaming stream, it´s all about the cast and how good they are
On April 22 2013 03:16 grs wrote: While tabbing between the ATC and the WCS AM qualifier, I noticed some cultural difference in presentation of the events.
One is formal and one isn't? You always had to dress formal and look professional for MLG.
Well, one should be the highest official Starcraft 2 tournament there is in the world, and the other is an unofficial Starcraft 2 teamleague, though with alot of great teams and great prize money. And once the latter goes on to the "offline" part, I expect it also to be the world first Looping Louie drinking game team championship! :D
On April 22 2013 03:16 grs wrote: While tabbing between the ATC and the WCS AM qualifier, I noticed some cultural difference in presentation of the events.
One is formal and one isn't? You always had to dress formal and look professional for MLG.
Well, one should be the highest official Starcraft 2 tournament there is in the world, and the other is an unofficial Starcraft 2 teamleague, though with alot of great teams and great prize money. And once the latter goes on to the "offline" part, I expect it also to be the world first Looping Louie drinking game team championship! :D
OH GOD That needs to happen! They have to bring on BlinG, Rotti, sLivko and DIMAGA! XD
On April 22 2013 03:16 grs wrote: While tabbing between the ATC and the WCS AM qualifier, I noticed some cultural difference in presentation of the events.
One is formal and one isn't? You always had to dress formal and look professional for MLG.
Well, one should be the highest official Starcraft 2 tournament there is in the world, and the other is an unofficial Starcraft 2 teamleague, though with alot of great teams and great prize money. And once the latter goes on to the "offline" part, I expect it also to be the world first Looping Louie drinking game team championship! :D
OH GOD That needs to happen! They have to bring on BlinG, Rotti, sLivko and DIMAGA! XD
And don't forget, they cannot call it a legitimate event unless they invite the reigning champion: SaSe!
On April 22 2013 03:16 grs wrote: While tabbing between the ATC and the WCS AM qualifier, I noticed some cultural difference in presentation of the events.
One is formal and one isn't? You always had to dress formal and look professional for MLG.
MLG try to copy the "professional" korean shows, while in europe we prefer the relaxed atmosphere, there is no reason to look like a banker for a gaming stream, it´s all about the cast and how good they are
It's less about copying Korean eSports, and more about copying American regular sports. If you put in signs that said NFL instead of MLG you'd have something that looks like it could be a Fox Sports or ESPN broadcast. For some reason the businessmen in American eSports think that the goal should be making eSports the same as athletic sports instead of just carving out its own identity.
On April 22 2013 03:16 grs wrote: While tabbing between the ATC and the WCS AM qualifier, I noticed some cultural difference in presentation of the events.
One is formal and one isn't? You always had to dress formal and look professional for MLG.
If that's what he meant.
I want to know why he is comparing the two when one is WCS and the other is not? Give me a break. Oh, and if he really wants to bitch about the image they're trying to protray. Then please tell me how the heck I'm supposed to know MLG is hosting the WCS Qualifier when all I see is MLG logos in the given image; whereas, Acer Teamstory Cup is everywhere even when looking at the casters! Durrrrrrr.
Don't make such a big fuss about the culture because the presentations aren't supposed to be similar.
PhysicLee used a drop hack at some points while he was losing G3 and claimed victory, It was against someone named duster i think or something like that cant remember...
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
i think everyone who have followed SC2 tournaments lately was disappointed with the pics for WCS.
Dreamhack and NASL was obviously the correct choices. Look at the WCS NASL arranged vs WCS NA by MLG. And look at WCS Europe etc.
Clearly the two best arrangers got punished by the glory that is capitalism.
i think they just picked the two organisations with the best infrastructure in their region. i hate a lot on esl, but they have a lot of experience in online competitions and the proper system/website to carry them out. i'm not sure if dreamhack would have been capable of doing this.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
i think everyone who have followed SC2 tournaments lately was disappointed with the pics for WCS.
Dreamhack and NASL was obviously the correct choices. Look at the WCS NASL arranged vs WCS NA by MLG. And look at WCS Europe etc.
Clearly the two best arrangers got punished by the glory that is capitalism.
i think they just picked the two organisations with the best infrastructure in their region. i hate a lot on esl, but they have a lot of experience in online competitions and the proper system/website to carry them out. i'm not sure if dreamhack would have been capable of doing this.
Gotta strongly disagree with this one. While there has been a clear gap between NASL and MLG in terms of viewership, player quality, attendance, prizepool and such (not talking about organisation here), Dreamhack is at least on par with ESL on those points (if not better), plus it has delivered some of the best events/esports shows in the foreign world so far, not even talking about their constant creativity, and the fact that they are always a step ahead in making esports something big and popular, in the good way (imho). Afaik, they also haven't delivered big organizational/infastructure failures lately, but I might be a DH fanboy on this one.
EU wasn't handled ideally but NA seems like a mess in comparision. The Hyun thing and only one stream especially is pretty bad because they apparently chose alot of shitty games to stream while other potentially great ones don't get shown at all. And don't give me the well they might show the replays later . I don't give a shit about replaycasts i want to see stuff live .
At the very least they could make a conference cast where they show several games at the same time and switch when around when intereting stuff happens. Would reduce downtimes considereably. I mean TakeTV does is regularly with 2 games at the same time . One game ends and they have another one still going ? They'll instantly switch to the second one with barely any downtime. This is how a tournament like this should be handled . I wanna see the maximum amount of live games and results .
On April 22 2013 00:57 geokilla wrote: TotalBiscuit is defending MLG pretty hard... He's calling WCS EU shit and WCS America is considered the best tournament...
I like the dude for his casting but what goes through his mind is very questionable sometimes..
That is how TotalBiscuit is, he gets aggressively protective of stuff he is involved in no matter how bad they might be.
Now I thought the casts themselves were alright even though their choice of games to cast were questionable at times. The problems I have with all this is stuff that the casters have no control over, like the chinese not being allowed in, hackers running rampant in the brackets and such stuff.
Both WCS EU and WCS NA both made pretty grave mistakes that royally fucked over both players and viewers but this isn't the StarCraft apocalypse many try and make it out to be.
From all reports the Chinese players showed up late and got put in the que if people didn't show up for their first matches. Its not shocking that a team from another country that got the time wrong. I only have heard reports of one hacker and I am sure he will get shut down if it proves to be correct.
I am curious as to why you are defending the mistakes MLG has made so furiously as you are. Mistakes needs to be pointed out and highlighted in order for the production team to take notice and improve.
Now I don't feel like arguing this as it will in the end lead nowhere and I didn't think it was as bad as many are painting it out to be just some things that are unfortunate and has had a bad effect on especially the players but also in some respects the viewers.
Because NA community loses their minds over every little thing. They complain about the sign up fee and then complain when some of the broadcast matches are really bad because every gold leager in NA could sign up for free. They stick up for Chinese players who appear to have sign in late to a 512 man bracket where 1000 people showed up. And they whine that their aren't 15 streams for a qualifier because someone else had 15 streams(ELS always broadcasts in several langues).
Everything has to be drama. Everything has to be how poorly run things are and how every event isn't perfect. Yes, MLG made mistakes and I am aware of that. I just don't give a shit and find a lot of the complaining to be a bunch of feigned outrage about how things are run. When TB is sticking up for MLG, that's when I know the complaints are a bunch of BS.
oh ye, TB the level headed logician.
"the community caused the mass of gold leaguers because they refused a sign up fee"
like those are the only 2 options. heres 1 solution purely off the top of my head which just seems more logical. use the ladder as a qualifier for wcs. to enter wcs you must be a top 25 masters player of the region you want to enter. there, now everyone can enter because everyone can get to masters, and theres no random players with literally 0 hope of qualifying. that was hard.
all these complaints, its easy to just blame the community for losing their mind, but every single one of them has been real legitimate complaints. there hasnt been a mass hysteria which turned out to be unfounded, its just that blizzard and their chosen WCS partners have gotten so much wrong its almost unbelievable. except that its not unbeleivable because both companies have a history of not engaging with the community, and making event ruining errors.
it seems to be more and more obvious that blizzard is 0/2 in choosing the correct partners for each region, and total biscuit sticking up for them within hours of being paid to cast some games for them (the timing is truly shocking /s) does nothing to change that.
Oh look, you're taking Twitter seriously again. So smart.
Also I was not paid for my guest cast, you know nothing.
Most of the issues in the way it was run likely stem from just lack of manpower. The admins were stretched far too thin for a qualifier this large, and would've been infinitely worse if the bracket was upped to 1000+ players, not to mention dealing with the overhead stuff on top of that.
So far, this event has been a complete joke. I feel that Blizzard/MLG has effectively destroyed my interest in the WCS NA . I feel that if NASL had been allowed to run/help out with the qualifiers, it would've been so much better. Hell, even ESL has done a much better job. At least their FOUR separate qualifiers allowed people to participate if they couldn't make one and had up to 2048 players able to compete. The NA scene I think will be irreparably damaged by all the fuckups that's happened so far.
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
i think everyone who have followed SC2 tournaments lately was disappointed with the pics for WCS.
Dreamhack and NASL was obviously the correct choices. Look at the WCS NASL arranged vs WCS NA by MLG. And look at WCS Europe etc.
Clearly the two best arrangers got punished by the glory that is capitalism.
i think they just picked the two organisations with the best infrastructure in their region. i hate a lot on esl, but they have a lot of experience in online competitions and the proper system/website to carry them out. i'm not sure if dreamhack would have been capable of doing this.
Gotta strongly disagree with this one. While there has been a clear gap between NASL and MLG in terms of viewership, player quality, attendance, prizepool and such (not talking about organisation here), Dreamhack is at least on par with ESL on those points (if not better), plus it has delivered some of the best events/esports shows in the foreign world so far, not even talking about their constant creativity, and the fact that they are always a step ahead in making esports something big and popular, in the good way (imho). Afaik, they also haven't delivered big organizational/infastructure failures lately, but I might be a DH fanboy on this one.
DH does great and not so great stuff. WCS EU Finals were great their last DH Winter was terribly produced. ESL has great events (IEM Gamescom, IEM Katowice) and not so awesome ones (IEM Singapore). Plus ESL is the much bigger and experienced organization in everything online and apart from some hiccups they showed it in the online qualifiers. Especially if you compare it to MLG...
On April 21 2013 17:47 Grovbolle wrote: Pretty much. That is the problem when Blizzard effectively kills all competition, it removes any pressure from organizers to actually do a decent job.
I find it hilarious how everyone were pitchforking ESL. So far they have done a better job than MLG that's for sure
i think everyone who have followed SC2 tournaments lately was disappointed with the pics for WCS.
Dreamhack and NASL was obviously the correct choices. Look at the WCS NASL arranged vs WCS NA by MLG. And look at WCS Europe etc.
Clearly the two best arrangers got punished by the glory that is capitalism.
Looking back ESL did a good job and looking at their past Events IEM Cebit and Katowice they did great too whereas DHs Winter Finals were just average...
On April 22 2013 06:13 Heartland wrote: Nice of Nony to resume before the fight.
Yeah, he decided to resume before the fight and managed to end the game in his name (though everybody knowing Nony's character know that he had no choice, if given this decision). I really think MLG now owes Nony something, it was the best outcome they could hope for after giving him this decision and he made it happen.
On April 22 2013 06:13 Heartland wrote: Nice of Nony to resume before the fight.
Yeah, he decided to resume before the fight and managed to end the game in his name (though everybody knowing Nony's character know that he had no choice, if given this decision). I really think MLG now owes Nony something, it was the best outcome they could hope for after giving him this decision and he made it happen.
You mean they should give him a seed next season? : P
It does appear that this is a bit of a shambles. I mostly feel sorry for the players that have been affected, especially when they are putting a good chunk of their young lives into trying to succeed with this game.
On the flip-side. This is a new format, the logistical challenges involved with this kind of online qualifier are mind boggling. I would expect there to be problems of one degree or another, especially in it's infancy, no matter who is running it. I feel like the whole thing seems a bit rushed, perhaps the different regions should have spent another month or so talking and organizing details.
My problem is the way many of these issues are being dealt with i.e. with minimal communication, no consistency between regions and an unprofessional attitude towards complaints raised by the community. (such as banning people from channels asking about the Chinese players)
There is a lot of money being put into this by Blizzard, they will be expecting a lot from organizers in return on their investment. Business is business if MLG and ESL can't cut the mustard they will probably loose their contract.
To finish on a brighter note - it will get better people! It's just the first year, there were always going to be dramas with this format. Lets just try and enjoy the fantastic games of starcraft that the players will give us.
On April 22 2013 06:13 Heartland wrote: Nice of Nony to resume before the fight.
Yeah, he decided to resume before the fight and managed to end the game in his name (though everybody knowing Nony's character know that he had no choice, if given this decision). I really think MLG now owes Nony something, it was the best outcome they could hope for after giving him this decision and he made it happen.
Only thing MLG owed him was the choice on how to proceed. He took the classy route.
So their bracket hasn't been updated since JD played JonSnow about 6 hours ago. How about that? It still doesn't even show that JonSnow played JD, or whether JD beat NOTEAM or not.
On April 22 2013 06:27 Sevredol wrote: It does appear that this is a bit of a shambles. I mostly feel sorry for the players that have been affected, especially when they are putting a good chunk of their young lives into trying to succeed with this game.
On the flip-side. This is a new format, the logistical challenges involved with this kind of online qualifier are mind boggling. I would expect there to be problems of one degree or another, especially in it's infancy, no matter who is running it. I feel like the whole thing seems a bit rushed, perhaps the different regions should have spent another month or so talking and organizing details.
My problem is the way many of these issues are being dealt with i.e. with minimal communication, no consistency between regions and an unprofessional attitude towards complaints raised by the community. (such as banning people from channels asking about the Chinese players)
There is a lot of money being put into this by Blizzard, they will be expecting a lot from organizers in return on their investment. Business is business if MLG and ESL can't cut the mustard they will probably loose their contract.
To finish on a brighter note - it will get better people! It's just the first year, there were always going to be dramas with this format. Lets just try and enjoy the fantastic games of starcraft that the players will give us.
Yea, this is rushed. GSL lucked out that they had the format template and everything basically works the same. MLG and ESL had to organize this in less than a month. Even if the important decisions had been made right as the announcement hit, it was still an extremely strict time schedule. I can't imagine organizing something this size in a matter of 2-3 weeks, especially when your "default moves" (like MLG trying to charge for passes) conflict heavily with those of other regions.
On April 22 2013 06:27 Sevredol wrote: It does appear that this is a bit of a shambles. I mostly feel sorry for the players that have been affected, especially when they are putting a good chunk of their young lives into trying to succeed with this game.
On the flip-side. This is a new format, the logistical challenges involved with this kind of online qualifier are mind boggling. I would expect there to be problems of one degree or another, especially in it's infancy, no matter who is running it. I feel like the whole thing seems a bit rushed, perhaps the different regions should have spent another month or so talking and organizing details.
My problem is the way many of these issues are being dealt with i.e. with minimal communication, no consistency between regions and an unprofessional attitude towards complaints raised by the community. (such as banning people from channels asking about the Chinese players)
There is a lot of money being put into this by Blizzard, they will be expecting a lot from organizers in return on their investment. Business is business if MLG and ESL can't cut the mustard they will probably loose their contract.
To finish on a brighter note - it will get better people! It's just the first year, there were always going to be dramas with this format. Lets just try and enjoy the fantastic games of starcraft that the players will give us.
I don't think just because it's a new format that it shouldn't be harshly critiqued. Many of these "problems" they're dealing with would of easily been sorted out with proper administration work. Hyun knocking out 4 people before being DQ'd is unacceptable. They should have at least 1 person scanning the names of the people before the brackets started.
With that being said, slipping up due to human error is acceptable. A blizzard based tournament signup where you signup with your battle.net account would of been a lot better as then Blizzard could close signups for any of the other regions based on your choice, allowing for less repeats. Of course people with two accounts can sign up for two different ones, but simple IP comparisons would of sorted it out surely or something along those lines.
It's just a big unorganized mess. I'm surprised it's still functioning with the amount of shit most of the players have had to deal with.
On April 22 2013 06:13 Heartland wrote: Nice of Nony to resume before the fight.
Yeah, he decided to resume before the fight and managed to end the game in his name (though everybody knowing Nony's character know that he had no choice, if given this decision). I really think MLG now owes Nony something, it was the best outcome they could hope for after giving him this decision and he made it happen.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. NonY was given a choice, which is arguably poor form on the MLG staff's part, and he made the "nice guy" decision. He earned our respect, Mario's respect, but that's where it should end.
All's well that ends well.
(and of course, nobody would've owed him anything if he had lost after the rematch)
I sincerely hope MLG just comes out after the qualifiers are finished and admits that they really messed up. Even then, I'm sure many will still be dissatisfied. They better really step up their game for the next event.
Can't help but feel a bit of deja vu with all of this though.
At least it isn't as bad as MLG Dallas where they managed to get 40,000+ people watching a live stream of baby eagles. GSL managing their WCS so well because they've not had to change anything, Europe & America seems like a last minute "Oh we have about a week to sort these qualifiers out, well let's just try and do our best to not make it a complete farce".
On April 22 2013 07:39 MVTaylor wrote: And now they've DQ'd Comm.
Did they give a reason?
Comm's b.net account / MLG account didn't get placed in to the bracket as he wasn't given a pro gamer seed (he had checked in within time limits and asked MLG admins to confirm this).
Then FruitBasket, a complete unknown in the Chinese scene did manage to get in to the bracket and gave his login details / MLG account to Comm. Upon finding this out MLG DQ'd him (One round from qualifying to Premier League).
On April 22 2013 07:43 nvs. wrote: This whole ordeal has been lulzy ever since its announcement.
Good entertainment at least... and people want SC2 "on TV." Could you imagine the embarrassment.
I thought the general consensus was that SC2 or most eSports would do better online because of fewer middle men or arbitrary scheduling restrictions and maybe even censorship. You would really need an entire channel more or less dedicated to it. But yeah, if somehow this ended up on ESPN it would be a bad way introduce the SC2 competitive scene.
On April 22 2013 07:39 MVTaylor wrote: And now they've DQ'd Comm.
Did they give a reason?
Comm's b.net account / MLG account didn't get placed in to the bracket as he wasn't given a pro gamer seed (he had checked in within time limits and asked MLG admins to confirm this).
Then FruitBasket, a complete unknown in the Chinese scene did manage to get in to the bracket and gave his login details / MLG account to Comm. Upon finding this out MLG DQ'd him (One round from qualifying to Premier League).
liquipedia brackets now hidden? Are they redoing the seeding of the players that fell down from the late winners round? We know who they all are. They were copied exactly from the MLG bracket that was shown last night and is now hidden on their site as well.
Hopefully Blizzard introduces a more competitive system after this expierence.
1st season produced by MLG 2nd season produced by NASL 3rd season by MLG (4th by NASL) World event by NASL / MLG decided by community vote so the better production gets their reward.
Can you add to the main topic that the challenger qualifier is a big fuck up? Top40 from premier qualifier gets to try to qualify for challenger is such a outrage
Yeah it kinda sucks that those few things happened but this event is far from a failure or apocalypse. In fact MLG has done quite well considering the amount of time they had to plan and put on the event. The bottom line is that the tournament is proceeding smoothly and we're watching a ton of good games. Sure, there could be more Chinese players and 2 players could have been DQed earlier...but I can't say I care much. To call it a "complete fiasco" or "big mess" is kind of an internet drama queen thing to say.
On April 22 2013 07:59 FXOdesRow wrote: Can you add to the main topic that the challenger qualifier is a big fuck up? Top40 from premier qualifier gets to try to qualify for challenger is such a outrage
yeah that's so stupid. if anything should be open it's the challenger qualifiers since that is the portal to the premier division...
On April 22 2013 07:58 HereBeDragons wrote: Oh we're censoring liquipedia brackets now too? And DQing LB finalists because MLG refused to let him in?
Could it be possible that perhaps a combinations of spotty reporting on actually confirmed results with the DQ's resulted in the Liquipedia brackets not syncing up correctly with the brackets recorded by MLG, leading to confusing by players who were following the tournament through liquipedia (usually a fast and very reliable source)? There is a note that some results being edited in are turning out to be in error or misleading.
On April 22 2013 07:54 FancyCaTSC2 wrote: Hopefully Blizzard introduces a more competitive system after this expierence.
1st season produced by MLG 2nd season produced by NASL 3rd season by MLG (4th by NASL) World event by NASL / MLG decided by community vote so the better production gets their reward.
Yeah I'm sure that would be a piece of cake to pull off logistically. Not to mention any form of direct democracy by this community is one of the worst ideas you could come up with.
FYI: Shuttle missed the 65 seconds check-in during Day3 of EU qualifiers, so we had heroes from teamliquid giving up their spots so that Shuttle could play.
Not having multiple streams is incredibly silly. It alleviates so many problems like boring matches, technical difficulties, people not enjoying particular casters, etc.
On April 22 2013 07:58 HereBeDragons wrote: Oh we're censoring liquipedia brackets now too? And DQing LB finalists because MLG refused to let him in?
Just fyi there was some bad information about the brackets posted to the Liquipedia page. We are working on sorting it out so it's correct, not censoring it.
On April 22 2013 07:54 FancyCaTSC2 wrote: Hopefully Blizzard introduces a more competitive system after this expierence.
1st season produced by MLG 2nd season produced by NASL 3rd season by MLG (4th by NASL) World event by NASL / MLG decided by community vote so the better production gets their reward.
World event by GOM/Dreamhack combo. Imagine the production value xD
On April 22 2013 07:54 FancyCaTSC2 wrote: Hopefully Blizzard introduces a more competitive system after this expierence.
1st season produced by MLG 2nd season produced by NASL 3rd season by MLG (4th by NASL) World event by NASL / MLG decided by community vote so the better production gets their reward.
Yeah I'm sure that would be a piece of cake to pull off logistically. Not to mention any form of direct democracy by this community is one of the worst ideas you could come up with.
I agree that direct democracy is not a good idea, nor easy to implement. But I think tournaments that host the WCS need to be held accountable. MLG is just the type of organization that would do anything for exclusivity, and then once they have that monopoly, they'll produce a shitty product with little repercussions.
Organizations like MLG need to be held accountable.
On April 22 2013 07:58 HereBeDragons wrote: Oh we're censoring liquipedia brackets now too? And DQing LB finalists because MLG refused to let him in?
Just fyi there was some bad information about the brackets posted to the Liquipedia page. We are working on sorting it out so it's correct, not censoring it.
On April 21 2013 23:29 Waxangel wrote: EU randomly made their sign-in time for qualifier #2 40 minutes earlier without any prior warning and cut out a bunch of people
yet, that's the kind of mistake SC fans (who are good at feigning outrage) never have any lasting anger about unless Stephano is disqualified ors omething like that
every time people get angry they get told they are killing esports. easy to blame community but the people actually making money in esports are the ones acting the most childish.
something else to update the OP with: top chinese player DQ'd for using another player's account because they refused to let him play on his own account:
On April 21 2013 23:29 Waxangel wrote: EU randomly made their sign-in time for qualifier #2 40 minutes earlier without any prior warning and cut out a bunch of people
yet, that's the kind of mistake SC fans (who are good at feigning outrage) never have any lasting anger about unless Stephano is disqualified ors omething like that
every time people get angry they get told they are killing esports. easy to blame community but the people actually making money in esports are the ones acting the most childish.
Exactly blaming the community is simply hilarious. The reason why people complain is because they care. This qualifier has been one of the worst disaster I ever seen in sc2. Matter in fact I think the hole qualifier should be redone.
On April 22 2013 09:36 Pwnographics wrote: Worst tournament SC I have ever seen.
Then perhaps you have not seen MLG Dallas way back then.
Considering the importance of this tournament and how far we have come in terms of time it definitely tops Dallas. There is no excuse for them to muck it up so badly. MLG has a questionable track record of quality and transparency, and with the current fiasco we can be sure that MLG was the wrong partner for Blizzard.
On April 22 2013 09:36 Pwnographics wrote: Worst tournament SC I have ever seen.
Then perhaps you have not seen MLG Dallas way back then.
That was just stream problems. This is in a complete different league considering the we had hackers kicking out players. Code S players trying to qualify and kicking out players. Chinese players not being able to play. Players banned for breaking rules while other players broke rules don't get banned. I would say this qualifier is worse then Dallas for sure. Because the integrity of the qualify tournament has been compromised.
Man it is so stupid that they didn't give this to NASL... MLG's online stuff is so bad. Though it is also partly blizzards fault for having such crappy organisation for this tourny.
On April 22 2013 09:50 Liman wrote: 7) Casting from replays while there are live games ongoing MLG=minor lazy gnomes
I saw that. That's just dumb. And their banning tons of people in chat too.
I support the banning. At the moment twitch chat is 98% "omg tilea is a girl?" "no tilea has a dick" "demuslim losing to a girl GAYYYY" and spoilers. They could disable chat completely and not lose anything worth having.
Its funny how a simple qualifier that would have given enjoyment to thousands of people and created local hero's can be fucked up in a way, that no one is gonna pay for 1season ticket of WCS-NA for sure... ill give ma money to koreans and europeans tournaments... but this is pure blasfemy.. This attempt ruins SC2-esports and blizzards branding. Zotaccup even organizes better then MLG...
On April 22 2013 09:50 Liman wrote: 7) Casting from replays while there are live games ongoing MLG=minor lazy gnomes
I saw that. That's just dumb. And their banning tons of people in chat too.
I support the banning. At the moment twitch chat is 98% "omg tilea is a girl?" "no tilea has a dick" "demuslim losing to a girl GAYYYY" and spoilers. They could disable chat completely and not lose anything worth having.
Every chat is like that. They shouldn't have a public general chat, instead maybe link to dedicated chat rooms with variable moderation similar to the live stream list here. Small description of the target chat and moderation "level". General Public chats just make me lose faith in humanity with keyboard slapping "comments" that flow through those rivers of dumbassery.
No Tofucake, that was not how the chat was for the most part. Most of the chat are innocent remarks on the sex of the player. They are player interest in the identy of Tilea. Most like me just look up the liquipedia, saw a masculine face under pink hair and wondered why it refers to her as a she. Banning the posters of people saying that she is transgendered is dumb, and is those saying that the mass bannings are terrible are rightful. You don't help matters by telling mods to ban those same people giving out information on possibly the biggest self promotion she can have.
On April 22 2013 10:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: No Tofucake, that was not how the chat was for the most part. Most of the chat are innocent remarks on the sex of the player. They are player interest in the identy of Tilea. Most like me just look up the liquipedia, saw a masculine face under pink hair and wondered why it refers to her as a she. Banning the posters of people saying that she is transgendered is dumb, and is those saying that the mass bannings are terrible are rightful. You don't help matters by telling mods to ban those same people giving out information on possibly the biggest self promotion she can have.
All the initial chat about Scarlett for example didn't "promote" her, what promoted her was the continued results shown.
On April 22 2013 10:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: No Tofucake, that was not how the chat was for the most part. Most of the chat are innocent remarks on the sex of the player. They are player interest in the identy of Tilea. Most like me just look up the liquipedia, saw a masculine face under pink hair and wondered why it refers to her as a she. Banning the posters of people saying that she is transgendered is dumb, and is those saying that the mass bannings are terrible are rightful. You don't help matters by telling mods to ban those same people giving out information on possibly the biggest self promotion she can have.
All the initial chat about Scarlett for example didn't "promote" her, what promoted her was the continued results shown.
IdrA got alot of fans (=value) thanx to his branding (who he is and how he communicates). Branding and attention are important!
On April 22 2013 10:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: No Tofucake, that was not how the chat was for the most part. Most of the chat are innocent remarks on the sex of the player. They are player interest in the identy of Tilea. Most like me just look up the liquipedia, saw a masculine face under pink hair and wondered why it refers to her as a she. Banning the posters of people saying that she is transgendered is dumb, and is those saying that the mass bannings are terrible are rightful. You don't help matters by telling mods to ban those same people giving out information on possibly the biggest self promotion she can have.
All the initial chat about Scarlett for example didn't "promote" her, what promoted her was the continued results shown.
Certainly, her results promoted her from notable to seeded top players.
But those chats will certainly help other average plaeyrs, they can promote people from nobody to notable.
On April 22 2013 10:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: No Tofucake, that was not how the chat was for the most part. Most of the chat are innocent remarks on the sex of the player. They are player interest in the identy of Tilea. Most like me just look up the liquipedia, saw a masculine face under pink hair and wondered why it refers to her as a she. Banning the posters of people saying that she is transgendered is dumb, and is those saying that the mass bannings are terrible are rightful. You don't help matters by telling mods to ban those same people giving out information on possibly the biggest self promotion she can have.
Self promotion in SC2 should have nothing to do with gender. It should be about results.
Also, I never said "ban X for saying Y" or that any particular theme of chat should be banned. I suggested more, and then all of chat to be banned.
On April 22 2013 10:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: No Tofucake, that was not how the chat was for the most part. Most of the chat are innocent remarks on the sex of the player. They are player interest in the identy of Tilea. Most like me just look up the liquipedia, saw a masculine face under pink hair and wondered why it refers to her as a she. Banning the posters of people saying that she is transgendered is dumb, and is those saying that the mass bannings are terrible are rightful. You don't help matters by telling mods to ban those same people giving out information on possibly the biggest self promotion she can have.
Self promotion in SC2 should have nothing to do with gender. It should be about results.
Lets be real here.
Gender plays a very big role in self promotion.
You can deny it all you want in your idealistic world, but everyone, you included, knows gender matters.
On April 22 2013 10:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: No Tofucake, that was not how the chat was for the most part. Most of the chat are innocent remarks on the sex of the player. They are player interest in the identy of Tilea. Most like me just look up the liquipedia, saw a masculine face under pink hair and wondered why it refers to her as a she. Banning the posters of people saying that she is transgendered is dumb, and is those saying that the mass bannings are terrible are rightful. You don't help matters by telling mods to ban those same people giving out information on possibly the biggest self promotion she can have.
Self promotion in SC2 should have nothing to do with gender. It should be about results.
Lets be real here.
Gender plays a very big role in self promotion.
You can deny it all you want in your idealistic world, but everyone, you included, knows gender matters.
Hiding the brackets so they can milk the replays for a few more days just puts the icing on the cake.. What a complete disaster this whole thing has been.
On April 22 2013 10:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: No Tofucake, that was not how the chat was for the most part. Most of the chat are innocent remarks on the sex of the player. They are player interest in the identy of Tilea. Most like me just look up the liquipedia, saw a masculine face under pink hair and wondered why it refers to her as a she. Banning the posters of people saying that she is transgendered is dumb, and is those saying that the mass bannings are terrible are rightful. You don't help matters by telling mods to ban those same people giving out information on possibly the biggest self promotion she can have.
Self promotion in SC2 should have nothing to do with gender. It should be about results.
Also, I never said "ban X for saying Y" or that any particular theme of chat should be banned. I suggested more, and then all of chat to be banned.
Unfortunately promotion in sc2 is rarely about results. Compare RoRo with Idra. That stream was the most exposure Tilea ever got in her entire career.
Yeah I know. I was in the chat too. You suggested in the chat to the mod, that the entire chat be banned. Which the mod replied to you personally to encouragement of the mass bannings. When everybody started arguing against in. You suggested in the chat to the mod, that the entire chat be banned. That is so much better. Claps hand slowly.
On April 22 2013 10:35 sitromit wrote: Hiding the brackets so they can milk the replays for a few more days just puts the icing on the cake.. What a complete disaster this whole thing has been.
Shit like this will continue to happen as long as MLG has exclusivity. Blizzard should give hosting rights to NASL
On April 22 2013 10:35 sitromit wrote: Hiding the brackets so they can milk the replays for a few more days just puts the icing on the cake.. What a complete disaster this whole thing has been.
Shit like this will continue to happen as long as MLG has exclusivity. Blizzard should give hosting rights to NASL
Or ESL tournament director... ESL hires nasl for coverage... done deal... ill buy a ticket then
On April 22 2013 10:35 sitromit wrote: Hiding the brackets so they can milk the replays for a few more days just puts the icing on the cake.. What a complete disaster this whole thing has been.
Shit like this will continue to happen as long as MLG has exclusivity. Blizzard should give hosting rights to NASL
Or Blizzard could reduce the rights they give out to rights for live broadcasting.
On April 22 2013 10:35 sitromit wrote: Hiding the brackets so they can milk the replays for a few more days just puts the icing on the cake.. What a complete disaster this whole thing has been.
Shit like this will continue to happen as long as MLG has exclusivity. Blizzard should give hosting rights to NASL
Or ESL tournament director... ESL hires nasl for coverage... done deal... ill buy a ticket then
ESL has allways allowed coverage in different languages next to their own though. MLG is take what we offer or leave it.
I was going to play against AxMiya who was coming up next, but WCS admins said "do not play yet", then the bracket has been changed, "play against your team member, Apoc" what the hell is it? I've saw miya's name on gamebattle website yesterday, but WCS admins says "Liquidpedia bracket is wrong" I'm 100% sure, he was on my bracket yesterday. but MLG just locked the bracket and no show everyone, and changed it for make a team kill between i and apoc.
then say "JUST BELIEVE IN ADMINS"
I'm gonna upload a few screenshots what i said to admins and what they answered at me.
the liquipedia bracket was made as the MLG bracket was updated yesterday so the bracket was indeed changed after they hid all the results for the later rounds so MLG is probably just going to say there was an error in their bracket all along not really anything you can do though unless someone took a screenshot of the brackets yesterday I guess IT HAS BEEN FIGURED OUT THE BRACKET USED TONIGHT WAS CORRECT http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=408859¤tpage=21#407
On April 22 2013 10:44 QuanticHwangSin wrote: They have been changed the bracket.
I was going to play against AxMiya who was coming up next, but WCS admins said "do not play yet", then the bracket has been changed, "play against your team member, Apoc" what the hell is it? I've saw miya's name on gamebattle website yesterday, but WCS admins says "Liquidpedia bracket is wrong" I'm 100% sure, he was on my bracket yesterday. but MLG just locked the bracket and no show everyone, and changed it for make a team kill between i and apoc.
then say "JUST BELIEVE IN ADMINS"
I'm gonna upload a few screenshots what i said to admins and what they answered at me.
On April 22 2013 10:45 Shellshock1122 wrote: the liquipedia bracket was made as the MLG bracket was updated yesterday so the bracket was indeed changed after they hid all the results for the later rounds so MLG is probably just going to say there was an error in their bracket all along not really anything you can do though unless someone took a screenshot of the brackets yesterday I guess
I'm willing to be someone on this forum or Reddit has a screenshot of yesterday's brackets...
On April 22 2013 10:45 Shellshock1122 wrote: the liquipedia bracket was made as the MLG bracket was updated yesterday so the bracket was indeed changed after they hid all the results for the later rounds so MLG is probably just going to say there was an error in their bracket all along not really anything you can do though unless someone took a screenshot of the brackets yesterday I guess
I know I can't do anything. This is all i can do.
I'm feel so sad that i have to play against one of my best friend "Apoc"
Who knew it this qualify is going to be stupidly like this, and How can take a screenshot of the bracket? T_T
I'm just a player, nothing else.. I have no power to complan about this.
I just wanted to let you know that a depression situations.
On April 22 2013 10:45 Shellshock1122 wrote: the liquipedia bracket was made as the MLG bracket was updated yesterday so the bracket was indeed changed after they hid all the results for the later rounds so MLG is probably just going to say there was an error in their bracket all along not really anything you can do though unless someone took a screenshot of the brackets yesterday I guess
I'm willing to be someone on this forum or Reddit has a screenshot of yesterday's brackets...
I didn't input all of the names but I very carefully checked each time to make sure the bracket was right and I am positive that what was on liquipedia is what was displayed yesterday but yeah need someone with screenshots
I'm also completely sure that they changed the bracket. I updated the Alicia-Revival and Oz-Alive results yesterday and updated both the winners' and losers' brackets on Liquipedia. I took the results straight from the MLG bracket. I even checked to see if whoever had updated the previous rounds in the losers' bracket on Liquipedia had everything right and everything was exactly the way it was in the MLG bracket at that point.
1. Matchfixing by broadcastorganisation (i guess to maximize profits later on); 2. DQ wcs champions; 3. Banning hackers 24h after it was confirmed; 4. Banning huyn twice (this still puzzles me... its like killing someone twice which is morbid). 5. 2 free spots for next code A need to be filled in (i'll bet huyn gets 1 spot)....
and not to mention the bad broadcasting.... (i can make 10 notes on that aswell)
On April 22 2013 10:45 Shellshock1122 wrote: the liquipedia bracket was made as the MLG bracket was updated yesterday so the bracket was indeed changed after they hid all the results for the later rounds so MLG is probably just going to say there was an error in their bracket all along not really anything you can do though unless someone took a screenshot of the brackets yesterday I guess
I know I can't do anything. This is all i can do.
I'm feel so sad that i have to play against one of my best friend "Apoc"
Who knew it this qualify is going to be stupidly like this, and How can take a screenshot of the bracket? T_T
I'm just a player, nothing else.. I have no power to complan about this.
I just wanted to let you know that a depression situations.
I believe you HwangSin. I want to help you out and I feel bad you had to play your best friend. I'm just not sure what to do
On April 22 2013 10:45 Shellshock1122 wrote: the liquipedia bracket was made as the MLG bracket was updated yesterday so the bracket was indeed changed after they hid all the results for the later rounds so MLG is probably just going to say there was an error in their bracket all along not really anything you can do though unless someone took a screenshot of the brackets yesterday I guess
I know I can't do anything. This is all i can do.
I'm feel so sad that i have to play against one of my best friend "Apoc"
Who knew it this qualify is going to be stupidly like this, and How can take a screenshot of the bracket? T_T
I'm just a player, nothing else.. I have no power to complan about this.
I just wanted to let you know that a depression situations.
Why do i get the feeling that alot of people got/get screwed over by MLG? Plansix, to the rescue, restore my non-existing-faith in MLG again!
On April 22 2013 11:04 sitromit wrote: Changing the brackets in an ongoing competition is the hip new tournament format. You never know who's going to play who next!!!
MLG is trailblazing!!!
I can't even figure out what the hell is going on with this part. The whole Chinese thing seems to be a case of people not reading the rules, but this is just insane.
MLG getting called out by NASL/Bitterdam, that has to hurt.
At some point even Sundance has to see that this could really hurt MLG in the long run. At some point he should stop to frickin tweet like a kid and actually put together a statement to clear the waves.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
it seems mlg has no clue about what they are doing, they changed the brackets at mlg website several times. 3 times i was witness to. Lower Bracket is very confusing, and it seems to have no interaction with the initial seedings of players, and it looks like the admins have manually and arbitrary choosen the matchups, as their is no link to the inital seedings in upper bracket.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
MLG1: "Let's 're-randomize' these brackets, they're no good!" MLG2: "Shit.. look at that, a CHINESE might win..." MLG1: ".... DQ him." MLG2: "People are starting to ask about the brackets, what should we do?" MLG1: "Shit. Okay, let's just hide them and not offer any explanation then if they wonder why they changed tell them that they're remembering it wrong!" MLG2: "Genius!!!"
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
Its not. Only explenation would be that the onces who were probably gonna qualify, didnt fit the playbook for WCS NA 2013, which would not be good for maximizing profits and goals. Admins dont fuck up brackets... they had 24h to check, someone must have checked the brackets between saturday and sunday.. Next to the fact the banning of chinese player was really late, which strengtens my consiracytheory that MLG dq-ed some players out, or put players against each other that didnt fit the playbook.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
Indeed. At this point, the only thing that they can really do is to restart the whole qualifier again. That, or make this season an "unofficial" WCS season, and shove in another one afterwards, out of their own pockets, of course.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
Its not. Only explenation would be that the onces who were probably gonna qualify, didnt fit the playbook for WCS NA 2013, which would not be good for maximizing profits and goals. Admins dont fuck up brackets... they had 24h to check, someone must have checked the brackets between saturday and sunday.. Next to the fact the banning of chinese player was really late, which strengtens my consiracytheory that MLG dq-ed some players out, or put players against each other that didnt fit the playbook.
I am not sure I will go that far. I am going hope that someone was provided with incorrect information or that the bracket on TL was really just incorrect. Normally this stuff is not some grand, overarching plan.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
On April 22 2013 11:04 sitromit wrote: Changing the brackets in an ongoing competition is the hip new tournament format. You never know who's going to play who next!!!
MLG is trailblazing!!!
I can't even figure out what the hell is going on with this part. The whole Chinese thing seems to be a case of people not reading the rules, but this is just insane.
You know it's bad when even Plansix is appalled by MLG's actions :p
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
That's not entirely true. Round 8 and round 12 had players who lost in the same winners' bracket put in the same losers' bracket. However, round 10 had players from a different bracket. I was also confused when I saw this on the MLG site, but in the end, the odds that in round 12 (losers' finals) two people, who had already met play again, was something like 1:10.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
On April 22 2013 11:04 sitromit wrote: Changing the brackets in an ongoing competition is the hip new tournament format. You never know who's going to play who next!!!
MLG is trailblazing!!!
I can't even figure out what the hell is going on with this part. The whole Chinese thing seems to be a case of people not reading the rules, but this is just insane.
You know it's bad when even Plansix is appalled by MLG's actions :p
I'm not appalled. I am just confused and want to see what it happened. I don't just to conclusions on most things.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Okay so it's not rigging... It's just complete and total incompetence then, that makes it.... slightly better?
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
Ah, so it was a simple mistake that they corrected. That is much better that what people were saying.
looking at the bracket that was generated at the end of last night, everything else appears the same. Maybe it was a mistake on MLG's part last night. edit: or i guess from my pictures they actually swapped Miya and Apocalypse I find it hard to believe that with so many contributing to building the bracket on liquipedia that it could get messed up this badly. + Show Spoiler [last night] +
but these arent from their website so they cant really prove anything in the long run They could have just dropped Miya and Apocalypse down in the wrong place conclusion on next page
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
MLG has done well in the past, its a pretty bold claim to throw that all out and say they are actively trying to rig the outcome of a major tournament. Fumbling the organization or allowing the community to engage in rampant speculation without providing an official statement are more likely.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
With so much going wrong in this tournament so far, i actually don't know what to think. The one thing i DO know though is that they're not fixing anything, they're making it worse now. People were eliminated by a cheater or other players who should not be able to participate, people got beaten because they seemingly played the wrong people, even if there is no bad intend on MLGs side (which i said, i don't know what to think about it), the only way to correct this whole mess (and it's nothing more than a mess, lets be honest here) would be a restart from scratch. It would be a hit their "ego" maybe, because they would have to admit that they screwed up, but for their reputations sake, that's the only way to rescue this event.
If their whole bracket is/was fubar, you have to start over. At least to me, that's the logical step.
MLG has done well in the past, its a pretty bold claim to throw that all out and say they are actively trying to rig the outcome of a major tournament. Fumbling the organization or allowing the community to engage in rampant speculation without providing an official statement are more likely.
If MLG did well would be up for discussion, but my opinion on that might be biased, so nvm. It's not my job to clarify or defend MLG, fact is, people got knocked out of the tournament by cheaters or "wrong opponents". You tell me, if this is actual a legit tournament or a cheap PPSL ripoff (maybe without cheating on MLGs part, but as much incompetence)
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
MLG has done well in the past, its a pretty bold claim to throw that all out and say they are actively trying to rig the outcome of a major tournament. Fumbling the organization or allowing the community to engage in rampant speculation without providing an official statement are more likely.
Expecting them to provide an office statement while the event is ongoing is pretty demanding too. I am sure they would like to talk with their staff and review what happened before making a bunch of statements. Real life does not move at the speed of internet speculation.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
Nah man they need to get the players set up asap so they can play the games early and have the replays ready for the broadcast.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Okay so it's not rigging... It's just complete and total incompetence then, that makes it.... slightly better?
But they corrected their incompetence, and if people would back off the blind MLG hate, they could realize it.
Did MLG mess up? Absolutely. They reacted slowly to the participation of PhysicsLee, Comm, and Hyun. They are only allowing 512 people to participate, eliminating pros from a playing, by using a first come, first save basis. They used one stream and didn't show the final result, instead dragging it out. They messed up their own brackets. But I think people need to give them credit for addressing these issues, no matter how slowly, instead of not reacting at all.
On April 22 2013 11:06 Plansix wrote: [quote] I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
Nah man they need to get the players set up asap so they can play the games early and have the replays ready for the broadcast.
Oh my bad, let's run those replays that everyone knows the results too!
The only reason we have Koreans in NA and fluff comments from Blizzard is due to MLG not wanting to have tournaments without Koreans. They're driven by ratings/money, so you can't put anything past them. Hackers, normally a problem in tournaments if no anti hack. Smurfing, normally a problem. But, did Koreans end up taking a maximum amount of spots or not, still? Who cares. Not getting worked up over code B Korea. Get back to me when there's a NA tournament.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Okay so it's not rigging... It's just complete and total incompetence then, that makes it.... slightly better?
But they corrected their incompetence, and if people would back off the blind MLG hate, they could realize it.
Did MLG mess up? Absolutely. They reacted slowly to the participation of PhysicsLee, Comm, and Hyun. They are only allowing 512 people to participate, eliminating pros from a playing, by using a first come, first save basis. They used one stream and didn't show the final result, instead dragging it out. They messed up their own brackets. But I think people need to give them credit for addressing these issues, no matter how slowly, instead of not reacting at all.
They didn't really address the issue, if they did then the players wouldn't of been so confused about who their next opponent was, instead MLG just stayed quiet and didn't tell the players anything that was going on and instead brushed them off ie: the case of hwangsin.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Okay so it's not rigging... It's just complete and total incompetence then, that makes it.... slightly better?
But they corrected their incompetence, and if people would back off the blind MLG hate, they could realize it.
Did MLG mess up? Absolutely. They reacted slowly to the participation of PhysicsLee, Comm, and Hyun. They are only allowing 512 people to participate, eliminating pros from a playing, by using a first come, first save basis. They used one stream and didn't show the final result, instead dragging it out. They messed up their own brackets. But I think people need to give them credit for addressing these issues, no matter how slowly, instead of not reacting at all.
They didn't really address the issue, if they did then the players wouldn't of been so confused about who their next opponent was, instead MLG just stayed quiet and didn't tell the players anything that was going on and instead brushed them off ie: the case of hwangsin.
Perhaps that was when they figured out the bracket was screwed up?
I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
Its not. Only explenation would be that the onces who were probably gonna qualify, didnt fit the playbook for WCS NA 2013, which would not be good for maximizing profits and goals. Admins dont fuck up brackets... they had 24h to check, someone must have checked the brackets between saturday and sunday.. Next to the fact the banning of chinese player was really late, which strengtens my consiracytheory that MLG dq-ed some players out, or put players against each other that didnt fit the playbook.
I am not sure I will go that far. I am going hope that someone was provided with incorrect information or that the bracket on TL was really just incorrect. Normally this stuff is not some grand, overarching plan.
Read the freakin topic... There were 3, yes 3 different brackets seen on mlg website, + all the late dq-ing, letting huyn play twice... it just does not make sence, except seen from maximizing profits.. plz use your propaganda on someone else, because i fed up with your mlg fanboy propaganda.
On April 22 2013 11:06 Plansix wrote: [quote] I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
They should let the players who qualified in the winners bracket advance and run a new qualifier to determine the final 4 spots, with seeding based on the results from this incomplete qualifier. It's too late for that now though, we already know that Revival and Apocalypse qualified in the lower bracket.
It is better with some things to accept that you made a mistake and then change it. But with brackets, what was wrong with just saying that there was a mistake made by the admins in listing the brackets and just going ahead with the 'wrong' brackets? I don't really see what would have been the downside...
On April 22 2013 11:06 Plansix wrote: [quote] I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Okay so it's not rigging... It's just complete and total incompetence then, that makes it.... slightly better?
But they corrected their incompetence, and if people would back off the blind MLG hate, they could realize it.
Did MLG mess up? Absolutely. They reacted slowly to the participation of PhysicsLee, Comm, and Hyun. They are only allowing 512 people to participate, eliminating pros from a playing, by using a first come, first save basis. They used one stream and didn't show the final result, instead dragging it out. They messed up their own brackets. But I think people need to give them credit for addressing these issues, no matter how slowly, instead of not reacting at all.
They didn't really address the issue, if they did then the players wouldn't of been so confused about who their next opponent was, instead MLG just stayed quiet and didn't tell the players anything that was going on and instead brushed them off ie: the case of hwangsin.
Perhaps that was when they figured out the bracket was screwed up?
You could be right on that part, as the bracket swapping did happen when everyone was creeping up on LR10, didn't really put that much thought into it.
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Shellbot solves the mistery.
Well atleast, one of them. But i guess it was indeed, an error on their part.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
Its not. Only explenation would be that the onces who were probably gonna qualify, didnt fit the playbook for WCS NA 2013, which would not be good for maximizing profits and goals. Admins dont fuck up brackets... they had 24h to check, someone must have checked the brackets between saturday and sunday.. Next to the fact the banning of chinese player was really late, which strengtens my consiracytheory that MLG dq-ed some players out, or put players against each other that didnt fit the playbook.
I am not sure I will go that far. I am going hope that someone was provided with incorrect information or that the bracket on TL was really just incorrect. Normally this stuff is not some grand, overarching plan.
Read the freakin topic... There were 3, yes 3 different brackets seen on mlg website, + all the late dq-ing, letting huyn play twice... it just does not make sence, except seen from maximizing profits.. plz use your propaganda on someone else, because i fed up with your mlg fanboy propaganda.
I am going to steal a quote from the other thread to respond: "There is not enough tin foil in the known universe to sustain your needs..."
Shellbot solved it without the need for some crazy theory of racist brackets and DQs to take over the stock market with dirty Esports money.
Aside from the other frustrations the silliest thing to me when participating was that, after many of us had already played our round 1 matches (and yes we used the bracket that was on the MLG site) they then change the bracket on us. I couldn't find an explanation anywhere.
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
On April 22 2013 11:06 Plansix wrote: [quote] I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
On April 22 2013 11:05 rei wrote: I know why they rigged the bracket half way through, they don't want jaedong to get knock out by a protoss
I really hope not. I am hopping this is some sort of misunderstanding.
Its not. Only explenation would be that the onces who were probably gonna qualify, didnt fit the playbook for WCS NA 2013, which would not be good for maximizing profits and goals. Admins dont fuck up brackets... they had 24h to check, someone must have checked the brackets between saturday and sunday.. Next to the fact the banning of chinese player was really late, which strengtens my consiracytheory that MLG dq-ed some players out, or put players against each other that didnt fit the playbook.
I am not sure I will go that far. I am going hope that someone was provided with incorrect information or that the bracket on TL was really just incorrect. Normally this stuff is not some grand, overarching plan.
Read the freakin topic... There were 3, yes 3 different brackets seen on mlg website, + all the late dq-ing, letting huyn play twice... it just does not make sence, except seen from maximizing profits.. plz use your propaganda on someone else, because i fed up with your mlg fanboy propaganda.
I am going to steal a quote from the other thread to respond: "There is not enough tin foil in the known universe to sustain your needs..."
Shellbot solved it without the need for some crazy theory of racist brackets and DQs to take over the stock market with dirty Esports money.
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
At least. I actually hoped for that to be a hoax, because otherwise that actually could've hurt eSports for real.
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When the bracket was generated Miya and Apocalypse were put in the wrong spot. Apocalypse was supposed to be in your bracket and Miya was supposed to be in Heart's. This pattern is consistent with the rest of the seeding in the round. You had to play the person who lost between Apocalyse and Crank in the winners' bracket, and it was Apocalypse. Sorry you had to play your friend
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When people dropped down from Winner Round 6, they came in in an order 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then they arranged them to play 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 (they flipped them so no one would play someone they already played, I think). They accidentally put it something like 8 7 6 4 5 3 2 1 (mixing up Miya and Apoc) so they had you playing Miya instead of Apoc.
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
At least. I actually hoped for that to be a hoax, because otherwise that actually could've hurt eSports for real.
No, but at least it was a good excuse for them to take control and try liquipedia to stop "leaking" results.
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When people dropped down from Winner Round 6, they came in in an order 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then they arranged them to play 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 (they flipped them so no one would play someone they already played, I think). They accidentally put it something like 8 7 6 4 5 3 2 1 (mixing up Miya and Apoc) so they had you playing Miya instead of Apoc.
Can someone confirm this?
they accidentally did it 8 7 4 5 6 3 2 1 instead of 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 but yes what you are saying is correct
On April 22 2013 11:07 AgentW wrote: [quote] The bracket on Liquipedia didn't make sense (we discussed it in LR yesterday but I don't remember on which page) because when guys dropped down, they just played the same bracket the played in the winner bracket. So if you won, you probably played a guy you lost to down the line. It just didn't make sense.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Should have had more people running the tournament then so potential problem can be identified and dealt with earlier. Or run more than 1 fucking tournament for the whole damn qualifier.
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When people dropped down from Winner Round 6, they came in in an order 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then they arranged them to play 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 (they flipped them so no one would play someone they already played, I think). They accidentally put it something like 8 7 6 4 5 3 2 1 (mixing up Miya and Apoc) so they had you playing Miya instead of Apoc.
Can someone confirm this?
they accidentally did it 8 7 4 5 6 3 2 1 instead of 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 but yes what you are saying is correct
so, what is the real story then?
am I wrong in this situation?? if I am, i will say sorry for make you confused.
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When the bracket was generated Miya and Apocalypse were put in the wrong spot. Apocalypse was supposed to be in your bracket and Miya was supposed to be in Heart's. This pattern is consistent with the rest of the seeding in the round. You had to play the person who lost between Apocalyse and Crank in the winners' bracket, and it was Apocalypse. Sorry you had to play your friend
So was the error on Liquipedia's end or MGLs? I am going to laugh real hard if someone just fucked on updating Liquipedia and it cause everyone to go all conspiracy theory on MLG.
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When people dropped down from Winner Round 6, they came in in an order 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then they arranged them to play 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 (they flipped them so no one would play someone they already played, I think). They accidentally put it something like 8 7 6 4 5 3 2 1 (mixing up Miya and Apoc) so they had you playing Miya instead of Apoc.
Can someone confirm this?
they accidentally did it 8 7 4 5 6 3 2 1 instead of 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 but yes what you are saying is correct
so, what is the real story then?
am I wrong in this situation?? if I am, i will say sorry for make you confused.
MLG is right and you were supposed to play Apocalypse
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When the bracket was generated Miya and Apocalypse were put in the wrong spot. Apocalypse was supposed to be in your bracket and Miya was supposed to be in Heart's. This pattern is consistent with the rest of the seeding in the round. You had to play the person who lost between Apocalyse and Crank in the winners' bracket, and it was Apocalypse. Sorry you had to play your friend
So was the error on Liquipedia's end or MGLs? I am going to laugh real hard if someone just fucked on updating Liquipedia and it cause everyone to go all conspiracy theory on MLG.
not sure. could be either one. I can view old instances of liquipedia but I dont think I can do the same for MLG
Yeah, I replayed the guy I beat in the first round. I also thought the brackets changed from Saturday to Sunday, but I didn't pay attention since I was out.
Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Yeah, poor MLG, they really ran the event so well with no mistakes whatsoever. Just bad luck all this shit happened to them.
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When people dropped down from Winner Round 6, they came in in an order 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then they arranged them to play 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 (they flipped them so no one would play someone they already played, I think). They accidentally put it something like 8 7 6 4 5 3 2 1 (mixing up Miya and Apoc) so they had you playing Miya instead of Apoc.
Can someone confirm this?
they accidentally did it 8 7 4 5 6 3 2 1 instead of 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 but yes what you are saying is correct
so, what is the real story then?
am I wrong in this situation?? if I am, i will say sorry for make you confused.
Do not be sorry for anything, this isn't your fault. MLG just fucked up real hard this weekend
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When people dropped down from Winner Round 6, they came in in an order 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then they arranged them to play 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 (they flipped them so no one would play someone they already played, I think). They accidentally put it something like 8 7 6 4 5 3 2 1 (mixing up Miya and Apoc) so they had you playing Miya instead of Apoc.
Can someone confirm this?
they accidentally did it 8 7 4 5 6 3 2 1 instead of 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 but yes what you are saying is correct
so, what is the real story then?
am I wrong in this situation?? if I am, i will say sorry for make you confused.
You're wrong, sadly.
MLG made a mistake, that's true, they corrected it though. You playing Apoc is the correct thing. :/
On April 22 2013 11:11 AgentW wrote: [quote] Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Should have had more people running the tournament then so potential problem can be identified and dealt with earlier. Or run more than 1 fucking tournament for the whole damn qualifier.
That is a valid argument or over more days. But live and learn. But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. I don't know how to prepare for an professional player trying to qualify on someone else's account. That is just so stupid I still can't believe they tried it.
This has just gone from hilarious to sad. It's not like this is mlg's first online qualifier. I just don't understand how there can be so many of these incidents.
On April 22 2013 11:11 AgentW wrote: [quote] Frankly, HwangSin shouldn't have been playing Miya by this logic. I think people aren't giving MLG credit for correcting things instead of letting them run incorrectly.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Yeah, poor MLG, they really ran the event so well with no mistakes whatsoever. Just bad luck all this shit happened to them.
Sorry, am I raining on your MLG hate parade by pointing out that all this shit was caused by players being idiots?
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When people dropped down from Winner Round 6, they came in in an order 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then they arranged them to play 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 (they flipped them so no one would play someone they already played, I think). They accidentally put it something like 8 7 6 4 5 3 2 1 (mixing up Miya and Apoc) so they had you playing Miya instead of Apoc.
Can someone confirm this?
they accidentally did it 8 7 4 5 6 3 2 1 instead of 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 but yes what you are saying is correct
so, what is the real story then?
am I wrong in this situation?? if I am, i will say sorry for make you confused.
MLG is right and you were supposed to play Apocalypse
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When the bracket was generated Miya and Apocalypse were put in the wrong spot. Apocalypse was supposed to be in your bracket and Miya was supposed to be in Heart's. This pattern is consistent with the rest of the seeding in the round. You had to play the person who lost between Apocalyse and Crank in the winners' bracket, and it was Apocalypse. Sorry you had to play your friend
So was the error on Liquipedia's end or MGLs? I am going to laugh real hard if someone just fucked on updating Liquipedia and it cause everyone to go all conspiracy theory on MLG.
not sure. could be either one
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Should have had more people running the tournament then so potential problem can be identified and dealt with earlier. Or run more than 1 fucking tournament for the whole damn qualifier.
That is a valid argument or over more days. But live and learn. But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. I don't know how to prepare for an professional player trying to qualify on someone else's account. That is just so stupid I still can't believe they tried it.
U should prepare ur organisation to except pro's/GM/masters first (without cap)! so they do not have to do this sort of shit.
Edit : they play this game for a living, its there job.. these qualifications have ruined alot for some.. u could think about that..
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When people dropped down from Winner Round 6, they came in in an order 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then they arranged them to play 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 (they flipped them so no one would play someone they already played, I think). They accidentally put it something like 8 7 6 4 5 3 2 1 (mixing up Miya and Apoc) so they had you playing Miya instead of Apoc.
Can someone confirm this?
they accidentally did it 8 7 4 5 6 3 2 1 instead of 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 but yes what you are saying is correct
so, what is the real story then?
am I wrong in this situation?? if I am, i will say sorry for make you confused.
MLG is right and you were supposed to play Apocalypse
On April 22 2013 11:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:33 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:31 QuanticHwangSin wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When the bracket was generated Miya and Apocalypse were put in the wrong spot. Apocalypse was supposed to be in your bracket and Miya was supposed to be in Heart's. This pattern is consistent with the rest of the seeding in the round. You had to play the person who lost between Apocalyse and Crank in the winners' bracket, and it was Apocalypse. Sorry you had to play your friend
So was the error on Liquipedia's end or MGLs? I am going to laugh real hard if someone just fucked on updating Liquipedia and it cause everyone to go all conspiracy theory on MLG.
not sure. could be either one
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
Dude, no. You saw that you were playing Miya because the bracket said you were playing Miya. The original bracket you saw was an MLG mistake. They corrected their mistake and that's why the new bracket faced you off against Apoc. You have done NOTHING wrong. MLG owe you, Miya, Apoc & anyone else who was effected by this bracket screw up an apology.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Should have had more people running the tournament then so potential problem can be identified and dealt with earlier. Or run more than 1 fucking tournament for the whole damn qualifier.
That is a valid argument or over more days. But live and learn. But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. I don't know how to prepare for an professional player trying to qualify on someone else's account. That is just so stupid I still can't believe they tried it.
People have been using other player's accounts on other servers all the time in wol. They didn't share the account in the tournament, he didn't pretend not to be somebody else and it was THE ONLY way for him to play in the tournament.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Should have had more people running the tournament then so potential problem can be identified and dealt with earlier. Or run more than 1 fucking tournament for the whole damn qualifier.
That is a valid argument or over more days. But live and learn. But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. I don't know how to prepare for an professional player trying to qualify on someone else's account. That is just so stupid I still can't believe they tried it.
When you organize a big tournament like this you have to account for all kinds fuck ups and mistakes by everyone and potentially be prepared . You can't just run something severly undermanned and cross your fingers nothing stupid happens and be called anything but an amateur. ESL at least had enough Admins to run the tournaments although their production was a bit lacking.
Not to mention the way MLG ran their broadcast , which as a viewer is probably the thing i criticize the most. Trying to hide results and on purpose holding back the games to milk them for extra shows during the week is just straight up unacceptable for me. I can forgive honest mistakes but not this.
On April 22 2013 11:15 AgentW wrote: [quote] But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Should have had more people running the tournament then so potential problem can be identified and dealt with earlier. Or run more than 1 fucking tournament for the whole damn qualifier.
That is a valid argument or over more days. But live and learn. But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. I don't know how to prepare for an professional player trying to qualify on someone else's account. That is just so stupid I still can't believe they tried it.
People have been using other player's accounts on other servers all the time in wol. They didn't share the account in the tournament, he didn't pretend not to be somebody else and it was THE ONLY way for him to play in the tournament.
No, he played under someone else's MLG account that they use to register players for events. He was pretending(though poorly because he used Comm) to be someone else. It had nothing to do with a battlenet account.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Yeah, poor MLG, they really ran the event so well with no mistakes whatsoever. Just bad luck all this shit happened to them.
Sorry, am I raining on your MLG hate parade by pointing out that all this shit was caused by players being idiots?
Way to go insulting the players btw, because it is not obvious the problems with the sign up/check system and how it was handled (or the lack of it).
Nah, we will just let HyuN play in and TL will sort it out spamming us. Not enough spam ? Resurrect him. Comm ? Who is that guy lol ? Oh look this guy has a cute nickname, Fruitbasket, like Fruitdealer. What ? Fruitbasket is Comm ? And he is tearing the bracket apart ? Ban that scrub.
Most of the "idiotic" stuff done by the players, was neither idiotic, but misshandled by MLG. So if you want to keep living in your devil's advocate world, sure pal, probably it's for the best. Btw the brackets, if i had a 1 million dollar bet, i would bet on MLG brackets being wrong, mostly because people who update liquipedia, often double check others people work. But well, we can't see how the MLG bracket was yesterday so, we will never know.
On April 22 2013 11:15 AgentW wrote: [quote] But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Should have had more people running the tournament then so potential problem can be identified and dealt with earlier. Or run more than 1 fucking tournament for the whole damn qualifier.
That is a valid argument or over more days. But live and learn. But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. I don't know how to prepare for an professional player trying to qualify on someone else's account. That is just so stupid I still can't believe they tried it.
When you organize a big tournament like this you have to account for all kinds fuck ups and mistakes by everyone and potentially be prepared . You can't just run something undermanned and cross you fingers nothing stupid happens and be called anything but an amateur.
Not to mention the way they run their broadcast , which as a viewer is probably the thing i criticize the most. Trying to hide results and on purpose holding back the games to milk them for extra shows during the week is just straight up unacceptable for me. I can forgive honest mistake but not this.
That part is fucking stupid and a lame brain idea. I will not argue with that
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When people dropped down from Winner Round 6, they came in in an order 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then they arranged them to play 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 (they flipped them so no one would play someone they already played, I think). They accidentally put it something like 8 7 6 4 5 3 2 1 (mixing up Miya and Apoc) so they had you playing Miya instead of Apoc.
Can someone confirm this?
they accidentally did it 8 7 4 5 6 3 2 1 instead of 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 but yes what you are saying is correct
so, what is the real story then?
am I wrong in this situation?? if I am, i will say sorry for make you confused.
MLG is right and you were supposed to play Apocalypse
On April 22 2013 11:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:33 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:31 QuanticHwangSin wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When the bracket was generated Miya and Apocalypse were put in the wrong spot. Apocalypse was supposed to be in your bracket and Miya was supposed to be in Heart's. This pattern is consistent with the rest of the seeding in the round. You had to play the person who lost between Apocalyse and Crank in the winners' bracket, and it was Apocalypse. Sorry you had to play your friend
So was the error on Liquipedia's end or MGLs? I am going to laugh real hard if someone just fucked on updating Liquipedia and it cause everyone to go all conspiracy theory on MLG.
not sure. could be either one
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
Dude, no. You saw that you were playing Miya because the bracket said you were playing Miya. The original bracket you saw was an MLG mistake. They corrected their mistake and that's why the new bracket faced you off against Apoc. You have done NOTHING wrong. MLG owe you, Miya, Apoc & anyone else who was effected by this bracket screw up an apology.
How can you make this qualification such a mess. It's not like they are newbie or anything. I feel really sorry for those affected players.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I need to get over something? Didn't you just say one post ago that nothing was MLGs fault, and i have to get over something?
All i said is MLG fucked up on several occasions. Period. There's ONE guy in this thread (and all the others) that does not get over this fact and proves it with statements like "doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.". And that's you, sorry.
Not to mention that you're kind of a leaf in the wind, saying "MLG did nothing wrong" and when you get called out on it you refer to "its just human to make mistakes". What now?
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you.
There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3.
Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
I'm pretty sure that Huk said on twitter that he is helping his family with the money he makes. Why would it be the only one ?
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I need to get over something? Didn't you just say one post ago that nothing was MLGs fault, and i have to get over something?
All i said is MLG fucked up on several occasions. Period. There's ONE guy in this thread (and all the others) that does not get over this fact and proves it with statements like "doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.". And that's you, sorry.
Not to mention that you're kind of a leaf in the wind, saying "MLG did nothing wrong" and when you get called out on it you refer to "its just human to make mistakes". What now?
Sorry, that came off more aggressive than I meant it to be. I'm kinda tired. I won't say they didn't make mistakes, but nothing worth the freaking out that is going on. And a lot of those mistakes were made in response to some really stupid shit done by players, or by not responding fast enough.
Its not that I think they ran a flawless event. I am just saying that they didn't make any mistakes I thing are worth getting upset about.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
On April 22 2013 11:07 Shodaa wrote: I still can't get over the fact that there was originally a $20 fee for entering this qualifier ...
A lot of people (on SotG for example) actually agreed the entrance fee is a good agree (but $20 is too high, should be at most $10, maybe $5).
It discourages non-serious players from qualifying and potentially increasing up space for more serious players.
I mean, if a player honestly thinks they have a chance at doing well (and this isn't some other game, SC2 allows you to see how good you are with ladder ranking), then they'll pay to enter.
MLG actually had a $10 pay in fee for some online tournament or qualifier they had in the past before and even then, some non-serious players signed up just to see how fun it could be to try playing pros (not that it was wrong or anything).
If there is no fee at all, then obviously you'll see a ton of people that aren't really serious about playing or trying to win, sign up.
WCS EU should have had a small entrance fee too (Shuttle and a lot of other pro players wouldn't have gotten in if it weren't for someone giving up their spot).
The way GOMTV does it is they give priority to ESF and KeSPA players (which are easy to track down), then any pro players that are known outside of ESF and KeSPA (foreign players for example), then any ladder players that are masters or higher.
In Korea, it's easy to know who is in ESF and/or KeSPA , which is why the system works easily.
Outside of Korea, an entrance fee of like $5 or $10 would be acceptable IMO since it means that only players who are serious about the tournament will invest the money.
It's not easy to run a tournament of this magnitude and organize it well in such little time, but I think they could of handled some of this more professionally. The root of a lot of this non-sense with the chinese and korean players is the fact that they shouldn't even be allowed to enter a north american league, but thats a completely different topic.
Reading @MLGSundance's tweets today was just more slaps to the face. The guy tries to defend from the "wild accusations" and "misinformation" which for the most part are true. Has the nerve to actually post some reddit post about how someone got to play, and then writes
"Again - I could throw 5 dollar bills into a crowd of eSports fans and some of you would call me an asshole and ask for 10s"
On April 22 2013 11:59 Laryleprakon wrote: I'm curious what the 23 IPl people Blizzard hired are doing, I would have thought they could have helped make sure both qualifiers ran smoothly.
EU qualifier ran pretty smoothly, broadcast well, u can debate about that. But i have not heard any negative sentiments from proplayers about registering, rules and brackets....
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
On April 22 2013 11:59 Laryleprakon wrote: I'm curious what the 23 IPl people Blizzard hired are doing, I would have thought they could have helped make sure both qualifiers ran smoothly.
EU qualifier ran pretty smoothly, broadcast well, u can debate about that. But i have not heard any negative sentiments from proplayers about registering, rules and brackets....
Shuttle almost didn't get in because of the way the sign ups were set up. One of the TL members gave up his slot so Shuttle could compete and he qualified. But ESL didn't do anything to make sure he got into the bracket, it was a third party.
On April 22 2013 11:59 Laryleprakon wrote: I'm curious what the 23 IPl people Blizzard hired are doing, I would have thought they could have helped make sure both qualifiers ran smoothly.
EU qualifier ran pretty smoothly, broadcast well, u can debate about that. But i have not heard any negative sentiments from proplayers about registering, rules and brackets....
Shuttle almost didn't get in because of the way the sign ups were set up. One of the TL members gave up his slot so Shuttle could compete and he qualified. But ESL didn't do anything to make sure he got into the bracket, it was a third party.
The difference, ESL didn't DQ shuttle. Don't you get it ?
If you know your system could cause this kind of troubles, you have to be lenient towards some kind of stuff, specially when you are talking about the motherfucking Comm.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I need to get over something? Didn't you just say one post ago that nothing was MLGs fault, and i have to get over something?
All i said is MLG fucked up on several occasions. Period. There's ONE guy in this thread (and all the others) that does not get over this fact and proves it with statements like "doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.". And that's you, sorry.
Not to mention that you're kind of a leaf in the wind, saying "MLG did nothing wrong" and when you get called out on it you refer to "its just human to make mistakes". What now?
Sorry, that came off more aggressive than I meant it to be. I'm kinda tired. I won't say they didn't make mistakes, but nothing worth the freaking out that is going on. And a lot of those mistakes were made in response to some really stupid shit done by players, or by not responding fast enough.
Its not that I think they ran a flawless event. I am just saying that they didn't make any mistakes I thing are worth getting upset about.
Guess it's okay, same goes for me (and i'm from the EU, its 5:00 in the morning...... Qq).
Well, maybe it's nothing to get hysterical over, i might agree there. But some things are just fubar, the hwangsin-thing for example. A player wasting a whole day because someone f'ed up at MLGs side, that's worth getting upset about. That's what being a "fan" is about.
And yeah, people did stupid stuff like cheating, or smurfing (even though i still think a ban was too harsh), but that's by far not the only thing that got screwed up - just keep in mind the brackets, and actually the whole format (casting from replays with outcomes already being known etc, can't word it better now since i'm really tired).
Still, that's the first answer from your side that actually seems legit and like a personal opinion, which is fine to me. I accept it (this way) - but you kinda played the devils advocate too stronk a couple of times, that's why you got all the flak. Just keep real, then discussions are way easier to handle for all sides.
I'm sorry if this post doesn't make sense, i'm sleepy as hell and will go to bed now. Have fun though.
PS: fanboy. ;>
Shuttle almost didn't get in because of the way the sign ups were set up. One of the TL members gave up his slot so Shuttle could compete and he qualified. But ESL didn't do anything to make sure he got into the bracket, it was a third party.
You see.. That's exactly what happened with Comm.. Do you see the difference in outcome though? ESL did not make sure he got into the bracket, but they did not DQ the "third party" like MLG did. Get it?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Should have had more people running the tournament then so potential problem can be identified and dealt with earlier. Or run more than 1 fucking tournament for the whole damn qualifier.
That is a valid argument or over more days. But live and learn. But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. I don't know how to prepare for an professional player trying to qualify on someone else's account. That is just so stupid I still can't believe they tried it.
People have been using other player's accounts on other servers all the time in wol. They didn't share the account in the tournament, he didn't pretend not to be somebody else and it was THE ONLY way for him to play in the tournament.
No, he played under someone else's MLG account that they use to register players for events. He was pretending(though poorly because he used Comm) to be someone else. It had nothing to do with a battlenet account.
I'm not saying that he didn't brake the rules here. But the problem is that he should have been in the tournament in the first place and MLG should have had the decency to look the other way here, because THEY screwed up. It's not like he was maphacking or anything and this didn't affect any other players in the tournament, having a wrong MLG-account should be a warning or something and not a disqualification. To have the player play all the way to the final round an then disqualify him is just a fucking disgusting move.
Why you can't admit that MLG screwed up on multiple occasions in this tournament is beyond me.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
On April 22 2013 11:18 AgentW wrote: [quote] That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Should have had more people running the tournament then so potential problem can be identified and dealt with earlier. Or run more than 1 fucking tournament for the whole damn qualifier.
That is a valid argument or over more days. But live and learn. But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. I don't know how to prepare for an professional player trying to qualify on someone else's account. That is just so stupid I still can't believe they tried it.
People have been using other player's accounts on other servers all the time in wol. They didn't share the account in the tournament, he didn't pretend not to be somebody else and it was THE ONLY way for him to play in the tournament.
No, he played under someone else's MLG account that they use to register players for events. He was pretending(though poorly because he used Comm) to be someone else. It had nothing to do with a battlenet account.
I'm not saying that he didn't brake the rules here. But the problem is that he should have been in the tournament in the first place and MLG should have had the decency to look the other way here, because THEY screwed up. It's not like he was maphacking or anything and this didn't affect any other players in the tournament, having a wrong MLG-account should be a warning or something and not a disqualification. To have the player play all the way to the final round an then disqualify him is just a fucking disgusting move.
Why you can't admit that MLG screwed up on multiple occasions in this tournament is beyond me.
MLG screw up so bad that they don't dare to admit it. Not even letting a Chinese champion into a 512 group is hilarious. And DQ someone for using other account is disgusting.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
If you work at a law firm you should understand better than anyone that certain mistakes people don't just "get over."
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I need to get over something? Didn't you just say one post ago that nothing was MLGs fault, and i have to get over something?
All i said is MLG fucked up on several occasions. Period. There's ONE guy in this thread (and all the others) that does not get over this fact and proves it with statements like "doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.". And that's you, sorry.
Not to mention that you're kind of a leaf in the wind, saying "MLG did nothing wrong" and when you get called out on it you refer to "its just human to make mistakes". What now?
Sorry, that came off more aggressive than I meant it to be. I'm kinda tired. I won't say they didn't make mistakes, but nothing worth the freaking out that is going on. And a lot of those mistakes were made in response to some really stupid shit done by players, or by not responding fast enough.
Its not that I think they ran a flawless event. I am just saying that they didn't make any mistakes I thing are worth getting upset about.
Guess it's okay, same goes for me (and i'm from the EU, its 5:00 in the morning...... Qq).
Well, maybe it's nothing to get hysterical over, i might agree there. But some things are just fubar, the hwangsin-thing for example. A player wasting a whole day because someone f'ed up at MLGs side, that's worth getting upset about. That's what being a "fan" is about.
And yeah, people did stupid stuff like cheating, or smurfing (even though i still think a ban was too harsh), but that's by far not the only thing that got screwed up - just keep in mind the brackets, and actually the whole format (casting from replays with outcomes already being known etc, can't word it better now since i'm really tired).
Still, that's the first answer from your side that actually seems legit and like a personal opinion, which is fine to me. I accept it (this way) - but you kinda played the devils advocate too stronk a couple of times, that's why you got all the flak. Just keep real, then discussions are way easier to handle for all sides.
I'm sorry if this post doesn't make sense, i'm sleepy as hell and will go to bed now. Have fun though.
Shuttle almost didn't get in because of the way the sign ups were set up. One of the TL members gave up his slot so Shuttle could compete and he qualified. But ESL didn't do anything to make sure he got into the bracket, it was a third party.
You see.. That's exactly what happened with Comm.. Do you see the difference in outcome though? ESL did not make sure he got into the bracket, but they did not DQ the "third party" like MLG did. Get it?
Yes, but they told ESL what they were doing. If Comm and his team had told MLG and they said no, you can't do it, I would say MLG was being unreasonable. But the way Comm did it without telling anyone and then getting "caught" makes me fall on the side of DQing him.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
[quote]
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
If you work at a law firm you should understand better than anyone that certain mistakes people don't just "get over."
I know that as well and I am really good at identifying what those are. MLG didn't make any of those tonight in my opinion. Their mistakes were minor or were caused by players being idiots.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
[quote]
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
"Mistakes happened and we move on." That's exactly what's wrong with MLG, and the world. I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
[quote]
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
"Mistakes happened and we move on." That's exactly what's wrong with MLG, and the world. I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
"Mistakes happened and we move on." That's exactly what's wrong with MLG, and the world.
didn't like this at all... messy tournament... no brackets updates... lots of misinformation.... really bad... anyway... brace yourselves, DreamHack is coming next week!
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
[quote]
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
[quote]
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Should have had more people running the tournament then so potential problem can be identified and dealt with earlier. Or run more than 1 fucking tournament for the whole damn qualifier.
That is a valid argument or over more days. But live and learn. But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. I don't know how to prepare for an professional player trying to qualify on someone else's account. That is just so stupid I still can't believe they tried it.
Sure u can make mistakes, but the mistakes MLG did are just too big to just say "ohh, all is over just wait for the next one in 3-4 month".
WCS League/Point System as it is wont give u a good shot for a Season Final or even the WorldCup for this year if u are not in the Premier League after the first Qualifier. Pro Gaming isnt that well established and these players/teams rly needed the exposure WCS could get them. Now they are way behind cause of how bad this Qualifier, that decided ur whole year most likely, had been run. The players that get into Premier/Challenger from it can plan this year way better on how to focus at sc2 instead of the others so they have an unfair advantage cause some other pro players didnt even had the chance to compete in it. It just seems that MLG wanted to run this qualifier at minimum cost with maximum profit (trying to hide the results now and spreading the casting over days to make more money on ads also points into that direction)!!!! With WCS being hyped like it was MLG should have expected a high number of players who wanted to compete in it, but they didnt get the manpower (more admins, more casters). Also it seems either the communication between MLG and the Players were very slow/bad or they just had not enough manpower as said before. But thats just no excuse for mistakes like that case with Hyun or giving some more in the NA scene known guys seeds into qualifier but not the WCS Champions from other Regions from last years WCS.
So MLG should have been better organized and should have informed the players/teams better and should have stepped up their game after they realized which mistakes they made, instead of trying to get away with this poor production and just getting the maximum amount of money out of it where sc2 is still popular in the western scene.
I cant support/watch any MLG product if they wont get their shit together and correct some mistakes they did. I wont support Organizers who just want to milk out the profit, cause they know blizzard is pushing sc2 at the moment and with one more expansion to go that will also peak again in interest, but harming esports and not helping its growth cause of how poorly they run it
Rigging brackets is "correcting things" now? If people played the wrong persons, just creating a bracket by hand willy nilly is not the way to fix it. Re-doing the whole thing would be, but not arbitrary changing the brackets as it fits best.
But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Yeah, poor MLG, they really ran the event so well with no mistakes whatsoever. Just bad luck all this shit happened to them.
Sorry, am I raining on your MLG hate parade by pointing out that all this shit was caused by players being idiots?
Is it a hate parade to believe they made mistakes? I guess you're just having a Comm hate parade then.
The Comm DQ basically comes down to a matter of opinion. In my opinion, what he did does not essentially violate the intent of the rule and was not harming the integrity of the tournament in any way. You feel otherwise, I get it, no point discussing it further and MLG won't change their minds anyway.
But putting that aside, please tell me how their completely terrible format was caused by players being idiots.
1) Too few spots - if there had been a registration priority like the Code A qualifiers (esf>kespa>masters++>everyone else) then it would've been fine. If they had kept a registration fee it probably would've been fine. Since those things did not happen, they needed to have a bigger bracket. They didn't, and it resulted in a lot of participants being excluded.
2) Bracket luck - Since the top 8 all advance, that means it's easier for less deserving players to qualify if multiple top players all get shoved into the same section of the bracket.
3) No forgiveness - Mistakes happen. Okay, maybe it was the fault of the Chinese players for not registering early enough. That's one of the benefits of having multiple qualifiers - if the players miss the registration, or if they have a bad day and drop a bo3 to a player they would normally beat, they can always look forward to the next qualifier as a chance to redeem themselves. With only one qualifier, there's very little room for error and outside factors can play a larger role than they otherwise would.
MLG's decision to have the spots for the Challenger qualifier determined by their placing in the Premier qualifier makes it even worse. Fucked up in the Premier qualifier, or hit a really strong player early on in the lower bracket? Sucks for you, you not only lose your only shot at Premier but also don't get any chance to try to qualify for Challenger.
Of course there were quite a few smaller issues with their running of the event, but this is basically the cause of most of the problems. It's a fucking bad format.
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Should have had more people running the tournament then so potential problem can be identified and dealt with earlier. Or run more than 1 fucking tournament for the whole damn qualifier.
That is a valid argument or over more days. But live and learn. But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. I don't know how to prepare for an professional player trying to qualify on someone else's account. That is just so stupid I still can't believe they tried it.
When you organize a big tournament like this you have to account for all kinds fuck ups and mistakes by everyone and potentially be prepared . You can't just run something undermanned and cross you fingers nothing stupid happens and be called anything but an amateur.
Not to mention the way they run their broadcast , which as a viewer is probably the thing i criticize the most. Trying to hide results and on purpose holding back the games to milk them for extra shows during the week is just straight up unacceptable for me. I can forgive honest mistake but not this.
That part is fucking stupid and a lame brain idea. I will not argue with that
Hey, great. I was going to bring this up but I figured it wasn't worth bothering with because you'd just say "MLG is a business and they're just trying to maximize profits". At least we can agree on something.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
Because working at a law firm makes you perfect... I know people who work in a law firm and are dumb as fuck.
On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote: [quote] You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
[quote]
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
Because working at a law firm makes you perfect... I know people who work in a law firm and are dumb as fuck.
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
[quote]
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
Because working at a law firm makes you perfect... I know people who work in a law firm and are dumb as fuck.
In the post before that one I admit to making mistakes while working at the law firm. You might have missed that.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
[quote]
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
Because working at a law firm makes you perfect... I know people who work in a law firm and are dumb as fuck.
Same here... and mostly scumbags..
Lawyers are just people that have made lying a profession
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore.
I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS?
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you.
There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3.
Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring.
On April 22 2013 12:12 Plansix wrote: Yes, but they told ESL what they were doing. If Comm and his team had told MLG and they said no, you can't do it, I would say MLG was being unreasonable. But the way Comm did it without telling anyone and then getting "caught" makes me fall on the side of DQing him. .
Maybe they tried to contact someone from MLG but didnt get a respond. It seems really likley that this happened, cause MLG didnt had enough admins and were very slow with communication. So if u tried and no ones answering ur just saying wait.. and nothing happens u know that after the first round matches are underway or over the MLG admins couldnt do anything about it anymore. So this whole mess is again the problem of MLG not supporting this tourney with enough manpower cause they want to make the most profit.
On April 22 2013 11:53 Plansix wrote: [quote] There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore.
I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS?
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you.
There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3.
Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring.
Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire)
I can sum up page 25 as #fucklawyers On an unrelated note, having premier league qualifiers be the basis he challenger league qualifiers is dumb. Just have SEPERATE QUALIFIERS!!! I can't say that I'm surprised though, basically none of these organizers had a chance to set up WCS so I guess I can safely say I knew this was coming.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
i do not care about your office at all. mlg fucked up, damage has been done.. they should repair it.
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore.
I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS?
On April 22 2013 11:55 Dodgin wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:41 m4inbrain wrote:
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you.
There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3.
Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring.
Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire)
They can only try out for Code A in NA if they were top 40 in the qualifier, the Chinese players who didn't get in cannot play in the challenger league qualifiers. Being Code A in Korea is different because you have the possibility of being in Code S for season 2 which in that case you might be able to get enough points to go to blizzcon.
I think a lot of people are angry because they think that giving MLG the reins for this was possibly a mistake, and perhaps an NASL might have been a better choice. MLG is a Lan event, that's what they were, and that's what they excel at. NASL has a lot of experience with casting online stuff, and have done a grand ol' job.
Not only did their decision to use MLG means that MLG gets total dominance over the NA Scene (no competing prime-time online tournament and they get to do their LANs anyway), but it also hurts NASL. I'm not even sure what the NASL is going to do now, except leave the SC2 scene and start doing LoL or Dota2. They don't have the infrastructure to do what MLG does in terms of LAN, and they aren't allowed to run an on-going tournament because it would conflict with WCS Na/Eu/Kr.
So instead of having a rapidly improving and a community-loved team run the show (and would have done a fabulous job as indicated by the WCS Eu day 2 recently), we get MLG who really have never had any business running online tournaments. I'm not furious or anything, but the bitching by the community has been well warranted. They haven't put any extraneous effort into the qualifiers aside from setting up a bracket and doing the studio production. The casting has been fine (which people were thinking it was not, Axslav and Axeltoss have done a fabulous job). But you have to put some effort into some common sense things:
1) Making sure the players who should be there ARE there
2) WCS Na is home to many other regions like CN and AU, so they should have been more accommodating. As far as I know, they just treated the CN community as any other player which I think is a big mistake. They could prove to be VERY interesting story lines and neglecting the CN scene is a huge mistake
3) Vetting the process. "Known" or suspicious players should at least be thoroughly checked to make sure they are clean. The fact that Hyun beat 4 players before the admins realizing he can't play WCS Na is really inexcusable.
On April 22 2013 12:02 Plansix wrote: [quote] Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore.
I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS?
On April 22 2013 11:55 Dodgin wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:41 m4inbrain wrote:
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you.
There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3.
Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring.
Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire)
They can only try out for Code A in NA if they were top 40 in the qualifier, the Chinese players who didn't get in cannot play in the challenger league qualifiers. Being Code A in Korea is different because you have the possibility of being in Code S for season 2 which in that case you might be able to get enough points to go to blizzcon.
That is rough and they should work with MLG to try to see if an exception can be made for Comm and the other players, since they clearly just misunderstood the rule about how the qualifier worked. However, trying to slid Comm in under the radar was not the way to do it.
Exceptions can be made for great players and its clear China has a few. But this is not the way to get that accomplished and breaking the rules isn't either.
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore.
I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS?
On April 22 2013 11:55 Dodgin wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:41 m4inbrain wrote:
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you.
There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3.
Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring.
Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire)
They can only try out for Code A in NA if they were top 40 in the qualifier, the Chinese players who didn't get in cannot play in the challenger league qualifiers. Being Code A in Korea is different because you have the possibility of being in Code S for season 2 which in that case you might be able to get enough points to go to blizzcon.
That is rough and they should work with MLG to try to see if an exception can be made for Comm and the other players, since they clearly just misunderstood the rule about how the qualifier worked. However, trying to slid Comm in under the radar was not the way to do it.
Exceptions can be made for great players and its clear China has a few. But this is not the way to get that accomplished and breaking the rules isn't either.
For WCS EU the Challenger League qualifier is going to be completely separate from the premier qualifiers as well, so I see no reason why MLG cannot run another qualifier for that. You would think WCS would have a universal way of doing things instead of each region having different rules, ways to qualify, and map pools.
On April 22 2013 11:15 AgentW wrote: [quote] But that's not what they did. They had guys who lost in the winner's round drop down to play people in that same bracket in the loser's round. That's clearly a misstep, and they corrected it. Do you think that MLG rigged this so Quantic could teamkill?
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Yeah, poor MLG, they really ran the event so well with no mistakes whatsoever. Just bad luck all this shit happened to them.
Sorry, am I raining on your MLG hate parade by pointing out that all this shit was caused by players being idiots?
Is it a hate parade to believe they made mistakes? I guess you're just having a Comm hate parade then.
The Comm DQ basically comes down to a matter of opinion. In my opinion, what he did does not essentially violate the intent of the rule and was not harming the integrity of the tournament in any way. You feel otherwise, I get it, no point discussing it further and MLG won't change their minds anyway.
But putting that aside, please tell me how their completely terrible format was caused by players being idiots.
1) Too few spots - if there had been a registration priority like the Code A qualifiers (esf>kespa>masters++>everyone else) then it would've been fine. If they had kept a registration fee it probably would've been fine. Since those things did not happen, they needed to have a bigger bracket. They didn't, and it resulted in a lot of participants being excluded.
2) Bracket luck - Since the top 8 all advance, that means it's easier for less deserving players to qualify if multiple top players all get shoved into the same section of the bracket.
3) No forgiveness - Mistakes happen. Okay, maybe it was the fault of the Chinese players for not registering early enough. That's one of the benefits of having multiple qualifiers - if the players miss the registration, or if they have a bad day and drop a bo3 to a player they would normally beat, they can always look forward to the next qualifier as a chance to redeem themselves. With only one qualifier, there's very little room for error and outside factors can play a larger role than they otherwise would.
MLG's decision to have the spots for the Challenger qualifier determined by their placing in the Premier qualifier makes it even worse. Fucked up in the Premier qualifier, or hit a really strong player early on in the lower bracket? Sucks for you, you not only lose your only shot at Premier but also don't get any chance to try to qualify for Challenger.
Of course there were quite a few smaller issues with their running of the event, but this is basically the cause of most of the problems. It's a fucking bad format.
That's actually incredibly terrible. They have a single qualifier for both their leagues, which has only 512 spots!? EU had over 4000 qualification spots for their premier league alone. KR had 576 spots for their challenger league.
btw, I kind of don't agree with your 2). At least they had a double elimination tourney. That was probably the only good thing about the whole qualification.
On April 22 2013 12:09 Plansix wrote: [quote] I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore.
I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS?
On April 22 2013 11:55 Dodgin wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:41 m4inbrain wrote:
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you.
There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3.
Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring.
Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire)
They can only try out for Code A in NA if they were top 40 in the qualifier, the Chinese players who didn't get in cannot play in the challenger league qualifiers. Being Code A in Korea is different because you have the possibility of being in Code S for season 2 which in that case you might be able to get enough points to go to blizzcon.
That is rough and they should work with MLG to try to see if an exception can be made for Comm and the other players, since they clearly just misunderstood the rule about how the qualifier worked. However, trying to slid Comm in under the radar was not the way to do it.
Exceptions can be made for great players and its clear China has a few. But this is not the way to get that accomplished and breaking the rules isn't either.
For WCS EU the Challenger League qualifier is going to be completely separate from the premier qualifiers as well, so I see no reason why MLG cannot run another qualifier for that. You would think WCS would have a universal way of doing things instead of each region having different rules, ways to qualify, and map pools.
I am not going to disagree with you there, but throwing a hissy fit on reddit and TL is not going to fix the issue. If anything, I just hurts everyone involved. The Chinese players need to reach out to MLG professionally and try to get this fixed so their players can play or try out for Code A. And they should reach out to Blizzard to.
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore.
I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS?
On April 22 2013 11:55 Dodgin wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:41 m4inbrain wrote:
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you.
There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3.
Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring.
Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire)
They can only try out for Code A in NA if they were top 40 in the qualifier, the Chinese players who didn't get in cannot play in the challenger league qualifiers. Being Code A in Korea is different because you have the possibility of being in Code S for season 2 which in that case you might be able to get enough points to go to blizzcon.
That is rough and they should work with MLG to try to see if an exception can be made for Comm and the other players, since they clearly just misunderstood the rule about how the qualifier worked. However, trying to slid Comm in under the radar was not the way to do it.
Exceptions can be made for great players and its clear China has a few. But this is not the way to get that accomplished and breaking the rules isn't either.
The word "slid" implies he did it on purpose this way, but thats not the case. He posted on reddit which name was his.. there was no "slid".. or anything like that. He was ope about who he was.
And we also have the 4 peeps that huyn dismantled.. and the others that got framed by the map/drophacker. How mny examples do u need.....
Its happens that i work at the emergency room of my city hospital... If i fuck up things... We all move on no big deal ( just sarcasm... I'm quoting a user who works on a lawfirm a coulle of post ago)... Sometimes it cost peoples money... Sometimes not... Mlg screwed big time here... Though they havent killed anyone yet i guess the next thing is waiting for a declaration/announcement/shenanigans/whatever to see what is their view of what went wrong... And what went disastrous... And then of course more shitstorm from us (sorry but in my language there's no apropiate word for shitstorm so i find it quite awesome and original)
I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore.
I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS?
On April 22 2013 11:55 Dodgin wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:41 m4inbrain wrote:
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
[quote]
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you.
There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3.
Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring.
Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire)
They can only try out for Code A in NA if they were top 40 in the qualifier, the Chinese players who didn't get in cannot play in the challenger league qualifiers. Being Code A in Korea is different because you have the possibility of being in Code S for season 2 which in that case you might be able to get enough points to go to blizzcon.
That is rough and they should work with MLG to try to see if an exception can be made for Comm and the other players, since they clearly just misunderstood the rule about how the qualifier worked. However, trying to slid Comm in under the radar was not the way to do it.
Exceptions can be made for great players and its clear China has a few. But this is not the way to get that accomplished and breaking the rules isn't either.
For WCS EU the Challenger League qualifier is going to be completely separate from the premier qualifiers as well, so I see no reason why MLG cannot run another qualifier for that. You would think WCS would have a universal way of doing things instead of each region having different rules, ways to qualify, and map pools.
I am not going to disagree with you there, but throwing a hissy fit on reddit and TL is not going to fix the issue. If anything, I just hurts everyone involved. The Chinese players need to reach out to MLG professionally and try to get this fixed so their players can play or try out for Code A. And they should reach out to Blizzard to.
On several occasions it's been the postings on Reddit / TL that actually helped in getting something done for some players because nothing could be done when they tried to discuss it with the official channels.
Blizzard for example responded quickly to a huge Reddit post while they were ignoring the posts by progamers on their very own forums regarding the infestor and such.
On April 22 2013 12:09 Plansix wrote: [quote] I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore.
I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS?
On April 22 2013 11:55 Dodgin wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:41 m4inbrain wrote:
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you.
There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3.
Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring.
Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire)
They can only try out for Code A in NA if they were top 40 in the qualifier, the Chinese players who didn't get in cannot play in the challenger league qualifiers. Being Code A in Korea is different because you have the possibility of being in Code S for season 2 which in that case you might be able to get enough points to go to blizzcon.
That is rough and they should work with MLG to try to see if an exception can be made for Comm and the other players, since they clearly just misunderstood the rule about how the qualifier worked. However, trying to slid Comm in under the radar was not the way to do it.
Exceptions can be made for great players and its clear China has a few. But this is not the way to get that accomplished and breaking the rules isn't either.
The word "slid" implies he did it on purpose this way, but thats not the case. He posted on reddit which name was his.. there was no "slid".. or anything like that. He was ope about who he was.
And we also have the 4 peeps that huyn dismantled.. and the others that got framed by the map/drophacker. How mny examples do u need.....
Comm did something he knew was against the rules. Also RootCaliber didn't know it was Comm he was playing against, so I'm 100% Comm was that open about it. The other guy was a hacker and they don't wear signs. RootCatz said it was great the way MLG handled him and he was glad about they way they responded(he was knocked out by the hacker). Hyung was a mistake, which was corrected. Mistakes happen.
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything.
That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error.
The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time.
So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong.
Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4.
I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit.
Yeah, poor MLG, they really ran the event so well with no mistakes whatsoever. Just bad luck all this shit happened to them.
Sorry, am I raining on your MLG hate parade by pointing out that all this shit was caused by players being idiots?
Is it a hate parade to believe they made mistakes? I guess you're just having a Comm hate parade then.
The Comm DQ basically comes down to a matter of opinion. In my opinion, what he did does not essentially violate the intent of the rule and was not harming the integrity of the tournament in any way. You feel otherwise, I get it, no point discussing it further and MLG won't change their minds anyway.
But putting that aside, please tell me how their completely terrible format was caused by players being idiots.
1) Too few spots - if there had been a registration priority like the Code A qualifiers (esf>kespa>masters++>everyone else) then it would've been fine. If they had kept a registration fee it probably would've been fine. Since those things did not happen, they needed to have a bigger bracket. They didn't, and it resulted in a lot of participants being excluded.
2) Bracket luck - Since the top 8 all advance, that means it's easier for less deserving players to qualify if multiple top players all get shoved into the same section of the bracket.
3) No forgiveness - Mistakes happen. Okay, maybe it was the fault of the Chinese players for not registering early enough. That's one of the benefits of having multiple qualifiers - if the players miss the registration, or if they have a bad day and drop a bo3 to a player they would normally beat, they can always look forward to the next qualifier as a chance to redeem themselves. With only one qualifier, there's very little room for error and outside factors can play a larger role than they otherwise would.
MLG's decision to have the spots for the Challenger qualifier determined by their placing in the Premier qualifier makes it even worse. Fucked up in the Premier qualifier, or hit a really strong player early on in the lower bracket? Sucks for you, you not only lose your only shot at Premier but also don't get any chance to try to qualify for Challenger.
Of course there were quite a few smaller issues with their running of the event, but this is basically the cause of most of the problems. It's a fucking bad format.
That's actually incredibly terrible. They have a single qualifier for both their leagues, which has only 512 spots!? EU had over 4000 qualification spots for their premier league alone. KR had 576 spots for their challenger league.
btw, I kind of don't agree with your 2). At least they had a double elimination tourney. That was probably the only good thing about the whole qualification.
Sure, it's better than having one single elimination tourney. But ultimately it's still pretty easy to get screwed by the brackets when you only have one tourney, double elimination or not.
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
Give them until tomorrow. Its midnight in this area and they are likely cashing it in for the night.
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
Give them until tomorrow. Its midnight in this area and they are likely cashing it in for the night.
Catz only got a fast respond cause he is known in the NA scene, it seems MLG didnt try to get any backround for other regions, also they knew CN/AU and some others would try. So they could atleast know the big teams in CN/AU and last years WCS Regional top 3.
Sure some fault maybe lies at the players, but that doesnt make the mistakes MLG did better. After WCS was announced they had enough time to look up what i said or to get in contact with the big teams from China/Au over email, its just lazy that they didnt.
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb.
Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends.
No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments.
You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore.
I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS?
On April 22 2013 11:55 Dodgin wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:41 m4inbrain wrote:
But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault.
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
[quote]
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake.
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you.
There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3.
Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring.
Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire)
They can only try out for Code A in NA if they were top 40 in the qualifier, the Chinese players who didn't get in cannot play in the challenger league qualifiers. Being Code A in Korea is different because you have the possibility of being in Code S for season 2 which in that case you might be able to get enough points to go to blizzcon.
That is rough and they should work with MLG to try to see if an exception can be made for Comm and the other players, since they clearly just misunderstood the rule about how the qualifier worked. However, trying to slid Comm in under the radar was not the way to do it.
Exceptions can be made for great players and its clear China has a few. But this is not the way to get that accomplished and breaking the rules isn't either.
The word "slid" implies he did it on purpose this way, but thats not the case. He posted on reddit which name was his.. there was no "slid".. or anything like that. He was ope about who he was.
And we also have the 4 peeps that huyn dismantled.. and the others that got framed by the map/drophacker. How mny examples do u need.....
Comm did something he knew was against the rules. Also RootCaliber didn't know it was Comm he was playing against, so I'm 100% Comm was that open about it. The other guy was a hacker and they don't wear signs. RootCatz said it was great the way MLG handled him and he was glad about they way they responded(he was knocked out by the hacker). Hyung was a mistake, which was corrected. Mistakes happen.
U can frame it how u want... But MLG was really sloppy and alot of people are paying for it. Cant change the facts..
Wow i ve never seen a tournament with that much mistakes in it than this one. I dont ususally hate on minor things (well this community is known for excessive witchhunts and hypocrisy) but that whole tournament was a fuck up. I wanted to write a summary on the fuck ups but the list is too long.
Srsly, DQing someone in the LOSERBRACKET FINAL is beyond all imagination. A known hacker can get to the round 8 of the LB bracket aswell, i have to shake my head. Then you have one stream, the whole winnerbracket gets streamed in one day where as you stream 90% of the LB bracket on the other day and then stretch out the few remaining games over four more days. Are you fucking serious?!
On April 22 2013 13:02 shelfofjustice wrote: Where was it announced that challenger qualifiers are linked to this too, out of curiosity? That kinda seems like the worst thing ever.
On April 20 2013 01:53 comabreaded wrote: Does 'WCS America Qualifier 1" indicate that there is more than 1 qualifier? I thought there were 2 qualifiers of 256 players (http://i.imgur.com/rJ9Hpwe.png)? Is there now only 1 qualifier of 512 players, or 2 qualifiers of 512 players?
There will be a 2nd invite only qualifier next weekend to decide the 16 players entering the challenger league.
9th-40th from the Qualifying Tournament 1, will get an invite the 2nd qualifier.
I dunno if that's where it was originally said or not, but that's where I saw it.
Wow and now the qualifier is totally ruined for me since i know the results, GOOD JOB MLG. God damn it how can someone fuck up this things so badly, they didnt even finish to cast the qualifier, no THEY WANT TO CAST THE QUALIFIER FROM REPLAYS, where the results are already known. I m so upset how this went...
I think it's stupid that they saved the results and forced people to not reveal who won. It's actually ridiculous that they've done that. Also more koreans than americans in WCS_NA (roughly), anybody surprised?
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Not sure if this has been touched on in this thread yet, but can we please make it a big point about the lack of another qualifier for challenger league?
Originally the format was two 256 player qualifiers. The first qualifier is for premiere and top 8 qualify, the second is for challenger and top 16 qualify.
Now it is just one 512 player qualifier, and they'll take the scraps that didn't qualify for premiere and place them in a 1 match qualifier to determine challenger league.
So basically, if you got bad bracket luck, couldn't play because of a prior engagement (re: life), or had a bad day, you are fucked for the entire season. Better luck in the ONE (1) qualifier next season.
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Has MLG(anyone at MLG) made some sort of announcement about the backlash they are getting? It's not like they have only been getting it for a few hours today, they have been getting it since this started, and the only thing I've seen, is Sundance playing defense and acting like nothing went wrong.
On April 22 2013 13:54 EZSkull wrote: Has MLG(anyone at MLG) made some sort of announcement about the backlash they are getting? It's not like they have only been getting it for a few hours today, they have been getting it since this started, and the only thing I've seen, is Sundance playing defense and acting like nothing went wrong.
It will be a replay announcement...so the announcement is done today but u will see it in about two weeks orso
On April 22 2013 13:54 EZSkull wrote: Has MLG(anyone at MLG) made some sort of announcement about the backlash they are getting? It's not like they have only been getting it for a few hours today, they have been getting it since this started, and the only thing I've seen, is Sundance playing defense and acting like nothing went wrong.
It will be a replay announcement...so the announcement is done today but u will see it in about two weeks orso
On April 22 2013 13:53 Shew wrote: Not sure if this has been touched on in this thread yet, but can we please make it a big point about the lack of another qualifier for challenger league?
Originally the format was two 256 player qualifiers. The first qualifier is for premiere and top 8 qualify, the second is for challenger and top 16 qualify.
Now it is just one 512 player qualifier, and they'll take the scraps that didn't qualify for premiere and place them in a 1 match qualifier to determine challenger league.
So basically, if you got bad bracket luck, couldn't play because of a prior engagement (re: life), or had a bad day, you are fucked for the entire season. Better luck in the ONE (1) qualifier next season.
This should really be looked into greatly. Some people didn't even get a spot in the 512 qualifier, so even if they were there and ready that day, they were not allowed because of the player cap. It basically turned into an invitational at that point. Really disappointed in everything so far, it is extremely demoralizing as a player.
Yes the Challenger qualifiers pretty badly need to be separated from this mess. Split them into multiple qualifiers, have it open, maybe league requirements if too many no-shows, etc. Hopefully they make the right decision in them at least.
On April 22 2013 14:13 Lunares wrote: You guys complained about an entry fee and they got rid of it. See what happened?
Yeah, because all of these problems stem from that.
Wouldn't have to deal with the massive influx of diamond level players at the least.
If only there were another way to solve that. Maybe one can look at a certain big korean league that solved this issue season 1, and never had any problem with it.
Just let players with a certain amount of pts have priority to join the qualifiers. Or have more/bigger events. MLG's choice really.
On April 22 2013 13:47 MrMedic wrote: This tournament has just ended up in failure, hopefully they will learn from their mistakes and make WCS season 2 better.
There will be no qualifier for season 2 premier league, only for challenger...
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When people dropped down from Winner Round 6, they came in in an order 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then they arranged them to play 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 (they flipped them so no one would play someone they already played, I think). They accidentally put it something like 8 7 6 4 5 3 2 1 (mixing up Miya and Apoc) so they had you playing Miya instead of Apoc.
Can someone confirm this?
they accidentally did it 8 7 4 5 6 3 2 1 instead of 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 but yes what you are saying is correct
so, what is the real story then?
am I wrong in this situation?? if I am, i will say sorry for make you confused.
MLG is right and you were supposed to play Apocalypse
On April 22 2013 11:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:33 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:31 QuanticHwangSin wrote:
On April 22 2013 11:28 Shellshock1122 wrote: I SOLVED THE CASE OF THE BROKEN BRACKET The current bracket is actually how it is supposed to be. If you look at winners' round 6 from top to bottom, you see that the players eliminated were: JYP, Sage, hendralisk, Miya, Badcop, Apocalypse, Demuslim, and Petraeus. These players were then dropped into losers' round 10 but arranged in the opposite order. Top bracket to bottom: Patraeus, Demuslim, etc... However, the original bracket swapped Miya and Apocalypse. MLG corrected this mistake and the bracket they used tonight was correct. Sorry Hwangsin. You were supposed to play Apocalypse the whole time
Can you explain me why I needed to play against apoc for whole time??
I just want to know it
When the bracket was generated Miya and Apocalypse were put in the wrong spot. Apocalypse was supposed to be in your bracket and Miya was supposed to be in Heart's. This pattern is consistent with the rest of the seeding in the round. You had to play the person who lost between Apocalyse and Crank in the winners' bracket, and it was Apocalypse. Sorry you had to play your friend
So was the error on Liquipedia's end or MGLs? I am going to laugh real hard if someone just fucked on updating Liquipedia and it cause everyone to go all conspiracy theory on MLG.
not sure. could be either one
ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy. But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member. I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry.
Shit dude I'm sorry. From playing you in tourneys + ladder (read: getting stomped by you 2-3 times) you're a really nice dude and this sucks.
On April 22 2013 14:13 Lunares wrote: You guys complained about an entry fee and they got rid of it. See what happened?
Yeah, because all of these problems stem from that.
Wouldn't have to deal with the massive influx of diamond level players at the least.
The problem with fees are the impact of the globalfee oon certain regions. I.e. A South american, Chinese or a Russian will have to pay more to participate then someone from North America. As for them 20 bucks is worth more then for someone out of NA. There's your problem. The feeheight will exclude players from certain regions to participate. As the NA-region is bigger then NA itself and blizzard tries to spread koreans and other gamers over the world, a fee is almost not viable.
The EU didnt have a fee and didnt have problems like mlg either. Yes if it was regionlocked for NA-residents-only a fee would have been viable (because everybody has the same currency), but there are more countries on sc2-NA-region that are not as rich as NA is...
edit : i.e. the big mac index.. how much a big mac costs for local residents by PPP (purchasing power parity). I am not an economist, but i like big macs and graphs alot
Brackets not updated Losers bracket mess (its a mess, and its a losers bracket. Remove losers brackets please, they suck). Adverts randomly during games (and Twitch mods who ban you when you call them out on this). Mess with Chinese players. 1 stream (I'd prefer multiple and watch other games like in the EU one). HyuN mess.
MrBitter says it all. The fact that there is only one qualifier and people were DQed in the final brackets completely corrupts and invalidates this tournament from start to finish. MLG needs to add another 2 qualifiers and deal with it because they screwed up.
Now to give another perspective, apart from being WCS which is already fucking important think of it this way. That was 2 day, double elimination bo3 online tournament for +12,000$ !!! This is already huge prize pool for an online event and that is only the $$ Going into Code S(NA) is much more, you stay there for one more season at least because you are thrown back next season to Coda A, so even more money. I wonder if MLG would fuck it up so badly if it was their own money being paid out.
It's amazing how MLG can be such a great show when it's their money on the line. The second they get a check cut from blizzard they drop the ball in colossal fashion. Such a sad state of affairs. I really hope MLG can get their shit together and go back to the way they used to be.
We all knew that allowing to play outside of you region is fail of epic proportions. And now will this Koreans have NA flag on WCS or what ? First time i am really glad that EU has awful ping with Korea.
The biggest problem this qualifier was Map Hackers that where allowed to play, blizz is not doing anything, but community need to do something against this. Verified user names, unique registry easily accessible of map hackers, and everyone complained when blizzard didn't want to give free name change, at least than you know map hacker, now barcode and you never now :/. So much less problem with unique ID on b.net..
On April 22 2013 14:13 Lunares wrote: You guys complained about an entry fee and they got rid of it. See what happened?
Yeah, because all of these problems stem from that.
Wouldn't have to deal with the massive influx of diamond level players at the least.
The problem with fees are the impact of the globalfee oon certain regions. I.e. A South american, Chinese or a Russian will have to pay more to participate then someone from North America. As for them 20 bucks is worth more then for someone out of NA. There's your problem. The feeheight will exclude players from certain regions to participate. As the NA-region is bigger then NA itself and blizzard tries to spread koreans and other gamers over the world, a fee is almost not viable.
The EU didnt have a fee and didnt have problems like mlg either. Yes if it was regionlocked for NA-residents-only a fee would have been viable (because everybody has the same currency), but there are more countries on sc2-NA-region that are not as rich as NA is...
edit : i.e. the big mac index.. how much a big mac costs for local residents by PPP (purchasing power parity). I am not an economist, but i like big macs and graphs alot
It still would have been more fair than what ended up happening. Any foreign player who's good enough to viably compete in the tournament would have had enough funding. You don't think that iG would have been able to cover the costs of their players? Sure, NA would have more low leveled players than anywhere else in the world, but at least it would remove the scheduling fiasco we ran into.
Of course, the better idea would have been just to disallow players who were lower than xx00 points masters and the entire thing wouldn't have turned into such a terrible sham.
I don't get why you're trying so hard to defend MLG. You got a personal stake in it or something.
On April 22 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation.
Oh they are across the ocean so fuck them right WCS should rename US EU KR Championship Series am I right. I can't find the post but some AU players couldn't get into the qualifiers too and ONLY TWO top Chinese players were in it if I am not wrong(one if you take away Comm which I will not argue about this issue can be taken either way)
I don't know how you can defend an organisation with many years of experience holding esports tournament over a wide range of games to not fucking see the problems it will have on a first come first serve 512 player limit bracket for such an important qualifier. The qualifier for the biggest tournament series for the game. Also no god damned tournament organiser in any fucking sport hides the fucking bracket. There may be delays updating the bracket but hiding it? Come on.. I don't blame them for making some mistakes in the bracket but hiding it is just unprofessional
They are all checked in and good to go but in the end all of these guys didn't play? DAFUQ? Oh no biggie I guess there was some mistake in handling these guys. They can try again next time.
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation.
Oh they are across the ocean so fuck them right WCS should rename US EU KR Championship Series am I right. I can't find the post but some AU players couldn't get into the qualifiers too and ONLY TWO top Chinese players were in it if I am not wrong(one if you take away Comm which I will not argue about this issue can be taken either way)
I don't know how you can defend an organisation with many years of experience holding esports tournament over a wide range of games to not fucking see the problems it will have on a first come first serve 512 player limit bracket for such an important qualifier. The qualifier for the biggest tournament series for the game. Also no god damned tournament organiser in any fucking sport hides the fucking bracket. There may be delays updating the bracket but hiding it? Come on.. I don't blame them for making some mistakes in the bracket but hiding it is just unprofessional
They are all checked in and good to go but in the end all of these guys didn't play? DAFUQ? Oh no biggie I guess there was some mistake in handling these guys. They can try again next time.
Some people don't realize that this is not a topic you can have an opinion about. It was a fuck up - it's really just that simple. I really cannot understand how anyone would back up MLG here. In my opinion MLG not only ran the qualifier badly and made it a mess due to this, but it should be invalid.
They betrayed players , others got knocked out by players that shouldn't be in anyways.... the qualifier is made invalid by all of this.
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
It doesn't. Make it a unlimited player tournament and let even newbies try themselves. Its a good thing and it does raise the community. Chance to play a pro? Always good. Chance of beating him ? Next to none anyways. It really wouldn't have hurt anyone and the FEW BYEs you get from it ... really, you cannot be serious.
Do you really see the low-league players that participated as the problen here? Can only be a joke
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
There were fees for MLG open brackets. You still get plat people joining just for the sake of playing. I don't even make that much money, but I would definitely shell out 5-10 dollars without care if I felt like playing. If I had time, and I didn't think I was hurting their chance at making it really far in a grind-fest bracket, I would gladly pay 5-10 dollars just to play against someone like Idra or Incontrol. They need to do it like the GSL, where you have to be at least X points masters to be able to register.
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
There were fees for MLG open brackets. You still get plat people joining just for the sake of playing. I don't even make that much money, but I would definitely shell out 5-10 dollars without care if I felt like playing. They need to do it like the GSL, where you have to be at least X points masters to be able to register.
Or don't limit spots for such an important qualifier... especially when theres only one that you will be bloody locked into through
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
I'd pay 5 bucks for a chance to play Jaedong... I'm not a pro.
The fee issue is a red herring, whether it solves matters or not, the fact is that it's not the only way to fix things. See the EU WCS for proof. The problem lies in how bad and multifaceted the mess is.
I know people don't like to hear this, but it's more and more difficult to accept these as legitimate results. There were just so many DQs or other messy situations in later stages which influences who played who, while the tournament didn't give everyone an equitable chance in the first place. I don't think anyone should rush to deem the qualifiers invalid but it's starting to be a realistic talking point where the pros and cons need to be weighed carefully.
As for Plansix, he has been weirdly jaded about the whole issue from the get-go. Don't know what's up with him, but he is spamming posts like mad that no-one seems to make heads or tails of.
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
There were fees for MLG open brackets. You still get plat people joining just for the sake of playing. I don't even make that much money, but I would definitely shell out 5-10 dollars without care if I felt like playing. They need to do it like the GSL, where you have to be at least X points masters to be able to register.
Or don't limit spots for such an important qualifier... especially when theres only one that you will be bloody locked into through
I think spots shouldn't be limited. But it's not fair to the pros if everyone is allowed a free registration. I don't think any pro should have to go through a 2048 man bracket just so everyone can join. It should be unlimited spots but only better than X points masters players (just like the Code A qualifiers).
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
It doesn't. Make it a unlimited player tournament and let even newbies try themselves. Its a good thing and it does raise the community. Chance to play a pro? Always good. Chance of beating him ? Next to none anyways. It really wouldn't have hurt anyone and the FEW BYEs you get from it ... really, you cannot be serious.
Do you really see the low-league players that participated as the problen here? Can only be a joke
You need to consider the time it would take to run an "unlimited tournament" considering this is only one of many. It also costs money to advertise and run it, on top of the other tournaments these organizations had already prepared for. I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but you need to draw a line somewhere. A small fee would at least keep the amount of non-competitive/screw-around types from wasting time and taking up space. Its one thing to play and lose for kicks in a free tournament, it another to knowingly throw money away for no reason.
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
It doesn't. Make it a unlimited player tournament and let even newbies try themselves. Its a good thing and it does raise the community. Chance to play a pro? Always good. Chance of beating him ? Next to none anyways. It really wouldn't have hurt anyone and the FEW BYEs you get from it ... really, you cannot be serious.
Do you really see the low-league players that participated as the problen here? Can only be a joke
You need to consider the time it would take to run an "unlimited tournament" considering this is only one of many. It also costs money to advertise and run it, on top of the other tournaments these organizations had already prepared for. I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but you need to draw a line somewhere. A small fee would at least keep the amount of non-competitive/screw-around types from wasting time and taking up space. Its one thing to play and lose for kicks in a free tournament, it another to knowingly throw money away for no reason.
See lots of the above posts. But 10 dollars to play Oz? Gladly, I'd tell that story to everyone I play SC2 with. I would be the non-competitve/screw-around type you don't want taking up space.
Priority: Progamer -> High GM -> Low GM -> High Masters -> Low Masters is a great idea. Much better than fees in my opinion. GSL had it right in that regard.
On April 22 2013 14:13 Lunares wrote: You guys complained about an entry fee and they got rid of it. See what happened?
Yeah, because all of these problems stem from that.
Wouldn't have to deal with the massive influx of diamond level players at the least.
The problem with fees are the impact of the globalfee oon certain regions. I.e. A South american, Chinese or a Russian will have to pay more to participate then someone from North America. As for them 20 bucks is worth more then for someone out of NA. There's your problem. The feeheight will exclude players from certain regions to participate. As the NA-region is bigger then NA itself and blizzard tries to spread koreans and other gamers over the world, a fee is almost not viable.
The EU didnt have a fee and didnt have problems like mlg either. Yes if it was regionlocked for NA-residents-only a fee would have been viable (because everybody has the same currency), but there are more countries on sc2-NA-region that are not as rich as NA is...
edit : i.e. the big mac index.. how much a big mac costs for local residents by PPP (purchasing power parity). I am not an economist, but i like big macs and graphs alot
It still would have been more fair than what ended up happening. Any foreign player who's good enough to viably compete in the tournament would have had enough funding. You don't think that iG would have been able to cover the costs of their players? Sure, NA would have more low leveled players than anywhere else in the world, but at least it would remove the scheduling fiasco we ran into.
Of course, the better idea would have been just to disallow players who were lower than xx00 points masters and the entire thing wouldn't have turned into such a terrible sham.
They should have taken the esl-format... a $20,-- entreefee with a 512 playercap does not stop anybody from trolling and will still fill the bracket up with amateur leaving semipros out. And it does stop very good players from competing because they cant spare that or someone else takes there spot. Its saying like if your poor or do not live in a western country u cant compete. Is that fair? I think not. The ESL format proved itself, no entreefee works fine. yes big tournaments, takes a while, viewers happy
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
There were fees for MLG open brackets. You still get plat people joining just for the sake of playing. I don't even make that much money, but I would definitely shell out 5-10 dollars without care if I felt like playing. They need to do it like the GSL, where you have to be at least X points masters to be able to register.
Or don't limit spots for such an important qualifier... especially when theres only one that you will be bloody locked into through
I think spots shouldn't be limited. But it's not fair to the pros if everyone is allowed a free registration. I don't think any pro should have to go through a 2048 man bracket just so everyone can join. It should be unlimited spots but only better than X points masters players (just like the Code A qualifiers).
I agree. If someone is not putting in the hours to get that master points they are obviously not gonna do anything at all in the qualifier. No point for lowbies to make things more difficult for everyone.
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
It doesn't. Make it a unlimited player tournament and let even newbies try themselves. Its a good thing and it does raise the community. Chance to play a pro? Always good. Chance of beating him ? Next to none anyways. It really wouldn't have hurt anyone and the FEW BYEs you get from it ... really, you cannot be serious.
Do you really see the low-league players that participated as the problen here? Can only be a joke
You need to consider the time it would take to run an "unlimited tournament" considering this is only one of many. It also costs money to advertise and run it, on top of the other tournaments these organizations had already prepared for. I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but you need to draw a line somewhere. A small fee would at least keep the amount of non-competitive/screw-around types from wasting time and taking up space. Its one thing to play and lose for kicks in a free tournament, it another to knowingly throw money away for no reason.
ESL ran 2 unlimited qualifiers I think and two 1024 player qualifiers. It doesn't take that much time really. What do you expect how many people sign up? Its very rare to even see a 2048 player grid that is completely filled. If you would actually have a good bracket where players can report... it really isn't that hard.
There is absolutely no reason for a fee. Don't you think MLG got enough $ to begin with? Especially considering Blizzard is probably paying them to run it. ESL ran the qualifiers smooth, MLG did not. I don't see one valid point for a fee.
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
Show me proof that asking a fee gets the rubbish players out of tournaments. Because I would gladly pay $20,-- as a goldleagueplayer to have to chance to play against alive or jyp etc.etc. pretty cheap and i can say that ive gotten 4gated by a korean pro and i make a vod of it with me starring in it Asking for cash does not imply that playersnumbers will drop below 512... The only reason why the fee was there was so that mlg could make more money... because everyone knows a fee doesnt allways decrease participants below 512 when i can play against a korean pro....
On April 22 2013 16:01 yrt123 wrote: I don't get why you're trying so hard to defend MLG. You got a personal stake in it or something.
On April 22 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation.
Oh they are across the ocean so fuck them right WCS should rename US EU KR Championship Series am I right. I can't find the post but some AU players couldn't get into the qualifiers too and ONLY TWO top Chinese players were in it if I am not wrong(one if you take away Comm which I will not argue about this issue can be taken either way)
I don't know how you can defend an organisation with many years of experience holding esports tournament over a wide range of games to not fucking see the problems it will have on a first come first serve 512 player limit bracket for such an important qualifier. The qualifier for the biggest tournament series for the game. Also no god damned tournament organiser in any fucking sport hides the fucking bracket. There may be delays updating the bracket but hiding it? Come on.. I don't blame them for making some mistakes in the bracket but hiding it is just unprofessional
They are all checked in and good to go but in the end all of these guys didn't play? DAFUQ? Oh no biggie I guess there was some mistake in handling these guys. They can try again next time.
Some people don't realize that this is not a topic you can have an opinion about. It was a fuck up - it's really just that simple. I really cannot understand how anyone would back up MLG here. In my opinion MLG not only ran the qualifier badly and made it a mess due to this, but it should be invalid.
They betrayed players , others got knocked out by players that shouldn't be in anyways.... the qualifier is made invalid by all of this.
For me that is what pisses me off. The way they handled it screwed over alot of players and this guy is defending them fanatically. I personally dont care about no streams or whatever, just the guys that got screwed due to bad admin and hidden bracket etc
On April 22 2013 16:01 yrt123 wrote: I don't get why you're trying so hard to defend MLG. You got a personal stake in it or something.
On April 22 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:
No I am just remembering that they put this together in 16 days and there are over 1000 players. There were issues, but I don't really mind them. The issue with the Chinese player seems like there was some fishy business going on and all of the information coming out seems to be a whole bunch of hearsay. But as China is across the ocean, I support MLG if they thought something wasn't right. The hacker issue is disappointing, but I really expected of them them to slip through. These are people who try to cheat and they are bound to find their way in.
As for broadcasters, it is just one more person that has to coordinate and get into matches. With Crank begging to have his last match run as soon as possible because he had been up for 30 hours, I really just wanted MLG to get through this as quickly as possible. I also think that all of the WCS are attempting to have their broadcasts on one channel so they can get more accurate viewer numbers for the events to pitch to sponsors. Splitting those across to community casters could muddy their numbers. But that is just speculation.
Oh they are across the ocean so fuck them right WCS should rename US EU KR Championship Series am I right. I can't find the post but some AU players couldn't get into the qualifiers too and ONLY TWO top Chinese players were in it if I am not wrong(one if you take away Comm which I will not argue about this issue can be taken either way)
I don't know how you can defend an organisation with many years of experience holding esports tournament over a wide range of games to not fucking see the problems it will have on a first come first serve 512 player limit bracket for such an important qualifier. The qualifier for the biggest tournament series for the game. Also no god damned tournament organiser in any fucking sport hides the fucking bracket. There may be delays updating the bracket but hiding it? Come on.. I don't blame them for making some mistakes in the bracket but hiding it is just unprofessional
They are all checked in and good to go but in the end all of these guys didn't play? DAFUQ? Oh no biggie I guess there was some mistake in handling these guys. They can try again next time.
Some people don't realize that this is not a topic you can have an opinion about. It was a fuck up - it's really just that simple. I really cannot understand how anyone would back up MLG here. In my opinion MLG not only ran the qualifier badly and made it a mess due to this, but it should be invalid.
They betrayed players , others got knocked out by players that shouldn't be in anyways.... the qualifier is made invalid by all of this.
I believe so too. As stated on the pulse and stated by me before in this topic.. mlg is robbing progamers of doing there jobs! They may even go and search for another career because it would take more than 1 season to get in wcs NA again.. is thats esports nowadays...
So... what if they repeat the tournament? What do you want to say to the players who have already qualified? "Sorry but you are not qualified for real. But try again tomorrow! :D"
Nearly everything could have been prevented if they wouldn't have done just 1 qualifier with 512 spots.
ESL also made mistakes (check-in too early,...) preventing many players from playing, but they made up for it by having 4 qualifiers with the first and last one with unlimited spots.
On April 22 2013 16:58 ilikeredheads wrote: So should I expect Sundance to appear on SotG and say "I get it. MLG fucked up the qualifiers. It sucks, and I fucking get it"?
At this point, the qualifiers are a farce and all MLG has done is display its total incompetence.
On April 22 2013 16:58 ilikeredheads wrote: So should I expect Sundance to appear on SotG and say "I get it. MLG fucked up the qualifiers. It sucks, and I fucking get it"?
At this point, the qualifiers are a farce and all MLG has done is display its total incompetence.
I cannot believe that in 2013 I firmly believe that NASL could pull a better show than MLG. I mean, ask me this 2 years ago.
Been thinking about this issue while drinking coffee at work.
The way MLG run this qualifier works perfectly with what i believe is there current business plan for SC2 - create a event with invited know names and sell it as "premiere", "best players" to its viewers. Ok, thats their business model and it works for them. Sadly they wanted to use the same model for WCS NA (with Blizzard approval)
Lets analyse this NA qualifier from the start (Note: i might be wrong about some parts) At first it was a RO256 double elimination bracket with 18,95$ entry fee - with 60-80 spots reserved for knows pro players (decided upon MLG) for 8 spots in Premier Division and another RO256 double elimination bracket for the contender division (what ever its called.... lets just say Code A from now on). After much public outcry and EU qualifiers they changed it to RO512 which people believed was only for the Premier division spots but in reality it was for both the premier and code A. They removed the fee but kept the 60-80 reserved spots for the pro-gamers to hand out.
So far so good. Now lets see the qualifiers tournament mechanics.
The way that MLG online tournament system works is that the players are checked into the bracket based on the time they registered for a tournament. So as long as you are one of the first to registered you are all OK to go. Imagine you registered you see you are registered with number like... 440 or more. You are thinking ok im set up and ready. Wait till check in. Click chack in and see... Cool im number 5 after check in. Im so sure im in a bracket. The times goes on and rest of the people checked it. Ok i should still be fine. I was the 440 player registered and 5 to check in. And then it hits you that MLG just put 60-80 seeds before you and you are 500++ player registered and sadly out of bracket despite early check in.
The situation above happened to the Chinese players. Yes i know it was their fault that they didn't read the fine print of MLG gambattles that the bracket is populated based on register time not check in time (like rest of tournaments in the world). But the MLG system is used only be (sorry if i offend some people) by platinum or lower players who play in those tournaments for mlg points (btw so you won't feel offended im myself a wood league player).
As the result the MLG got what they wanted. The players that were seeded into those reserved 60-80 spots got the 8 spots in premiere league. MLG got its stars to show us and keep their viewers numbers. We should all be happy?
On April 22 2013 17:06 HooK2000 wrote: So... what if they repeat the tournament? What do you want to say to the players who have already qualified? "Sorry but you are not qualified for real. But try again tomorrow! :D"
I knew this would be brought up its simple, mlg did wrong, make it right. Maybe a €200.000,-- wcs convicts tournament, for the players that were left out? Be creative
Edit : I actually think this is the best solution.. another tournament with a big prizepool casted by nasl (as a pilot for the future) for the players that were left in the cold.
1. Money isnot wasted for blizzard 2. players can compete for money 3. NASL has something to show off 4. Mooorrrreeeee starcraft for me, the viewer!
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
It does, it prevent hundreds of people who have no shot of qualifying from taking up spots and making the whole event a clusterfuck. If I am in gold and the tournament is free why not enter, if it cost $5-$10, screw that I am not wasting my money.
There were fees for MLG open brackets. You still get plat people joining just for the sake of playing. I don't even make that much money, but I would definitely shell out 5-10 dollars without care if I felt like playing. They need to do it like the GSL, where you have to be at least X points masters to be able to register.
Or don't limit spots for such an important qualifier... especially when theres only one that you will be bloody locked into through
I think spots shouldn't be limited. But it's not fair to the pros if everyone is allowed a free registration. I don't think any pro should have to go through a 2048 man bracket just so everyone can join. It should be unlimited spots but only better than X points masters players (just like the Code A qualifiers).
For a pro first 3 round in a 2048 man bracket are a time when he checks his connection to server, his key setup and so on. The games should last about 10 minutes each.You either hold up the cheese or kill opponent with a good executed timing attack. If you lose in RO2048 you might start considering if you are good enough to be a pro.
On April 22 2013 16:58 ilikeredheads wrote: So should I expect Sundance to appear on SotG and say "I get it. MLG fucked up the qualifiers. It sucks, and I fucking get it"?
At this point, the qualifiers are a farce and all MLG has done is display its total incompetence.
I cannot believe that in 2013 I firmly believe that NASL could pull a better show than MLG. I mean, ask me this 2 years ago.
To be honest NASL rate of improvement amazes me. And yes i too believe NASL would have made a better job (at least for the online part). Bitterdam worked for ESL for over a year (Rotti even longer) so they know inside and out of running online cups. And even if the top brass of ESL and NASL might not work 100% smooth. The unofficial help from the ground up " for old times sake" would guarantee that the event would run smoothly.
On April 22 2013 17:06 HooK2000 wrote: So... what if they repeat the tournament? What do you want to say to the players who have already qualified? "Sorry but you are not qualified for real. But try again tomorrow! :D"
Who wants to be qualified in such a manner? We call ourselves ESPORTS but the competition must be held on even ground. Players that think this qualifiers were OK do not understand ethics and sportsmanship.
Amidst all the terrible management, administration, and planning of MLG, we shouldn't forget the solid casting Axeltoss and Axslav did (and their guest casters). At least they gave us a reason to keep watching.
Hopefully MLG learns something from this disastrous event.
On April 22 2013 17:06 HooK2000 wrote: So... what if they repeat the tournament? What do you want to say to the players who have already qualified? "Sorry but you are not qualified for real. But try again tomorrow! :D"
Who wants to be qualified in such a manner? We call ourselves ESPORTS but the competition must be held on even ground. Players that think this qualifiers were OK do not understand ethics and sportsmanship.
So basically MLG makes a mistake and the players have to pay for it? MLG isn't able to host this in a good way and they should feel the consequences (mb organize an other tournament with a pricepool provided by MLG as mentioned).
On April 22 2013 17:06 HooK2000 wrote: So... what if they repeat the tournament? What do you want to say to the players who have already qualified? "Sorry but you are not qualified for real. But try again tomorrow! :D"
Who wants to be qualified in such a manner? We call ourselves ESPORTS but the competition must be held on even ground. Players that think this qualifiers were OK do not understand ethics and sportsmanship.
So basically MLG makes a mistake and the players have to pay for it? MLG isn't able to host this probably and they should feel the consequences (mb organize an other tournament with a pricepool provided by MLG as mentioned).
Wait a minute. MLG made a mistake and players DO PAY for it as it is. And why would the players care for the fees MLG should pay for hosting this so badly? For them the tournament is over. Some played hackers, some played future DQ players etc. It's a mess.
On April 22 2013 17:41 Uranyl wrote: I wonder if Blizz also talked to NASL before giving the WCS NA to MLG. Maybe they would have done a better job, maybe not.
The way i see it happened:
Blizz: You know we are changing WCS for 2013 and making it the biggest league in the world to compete. MLG: Do you have anyone to run it in NA? Blizz: Well we are starting to look for one... MLG: Look no further. We make the best offline events in NA. And for online part we just launched gamebattles. Its perfect for online play and qualifiers. Thousand of people use it. Its so easy and fool proof... BLizz: Ok WSC NA is yours.
On April 22 2013 17:24 Frankon wrote: Been thinking about this issue while drinking coffee at work.
The way MLG run this qualifier works perfectly with what i believe is there current business plan for SC2 - create a event with invited know names and sell it as "premiere", "best players" to its viewers. Ok, thats their business model and it works for them. Sadly they wanted to use the same model for WCS NA (with Blizzard approval)
Lets analyse this NA qualifier from the start (Note: i might be wrong about some parts) At first it was a RO256 double elimination bracket with 18,95$ entry fee - with 60-80 spots reserved for knows pro players (decided upon MLG) for 8 spots in Premier Division and another RO256 double elimination bracket for the contender division (what ever its called.... lets just say Code A from now on). After much public outcry and EU qualifiers they changed it to RO512 which people believed was only for the Premier division spots but in reality it was for both the premier and code A. They removed the fee but kept the 60-80 reserved spots for the pro-gamers to hand out.
So far so good. Now lets see the qualifiers tournament mechanics.
The way that MLG online tournament system works is that the players are checked into the bracket based on the time they registered for a tournament. So as long as you are one of the first to registered you are all OK to go. Imagine you registered you see you are registered with number like... 440 or more. You are thinking ok im set up and ready. Wait till check in. Click chack in and see... Cool im number 5 after check in. Im so sure im in a bracket. The times goes on and rest of the people checked it. Ok i should still be fine. I was the 440 player registered and 5 to check in. And then it hits you that MLG just put 60-80 seeds before you and you are 500++ player registered and sadly out of bracket despite early check in.
The situation above happened to the Chinese players. Yes i know it was their fault that they didn't read the fine print of MLG gambattles that the bracket is populated based on register time not check in time (like rest of tournaments in the world). But the MLG system is used only be (sorry if i offend some people) by platinum or lower players who play in those tournaments for mlg points (btw so you won't feel offended im myself a wood league player).
As the result the MLG got what they wanted. The players that were seeded into those reserved 60-80 spots got the 8 spots in premiere league. MLG got its stars to show us and keep their viewers numbers. We should all be happy?
This is your speculation or official? If official, source? Either ways when you are in charge of a big event like this, you can't just casually say 'oh sorry better luck next time' after you fuck up. Not when you are an experienced and stable organisation that jas been entrusted to do the job properly (or bought the rights to do it) it is your responsibility to ensure the best competition possible. Some mistakes can be made sure such as the hacker incident. I don't blame them for not realising hacker (s) are in the qualifier. It is difficult with hundreds of people.
But some of the mistakes are inexcusable. 512 slots on a first come first serve basis anyone can join? Come on they are professionals. They shoukd not be so naieve to believe it will allow the fairest and best to compete. Surely some will be left out. Admins also gave out misinformation. They say Chinese players were in but actually they were not...
On April 22 2013 17:24 Frankon wrote: Been thinking about this issue while drinking coffee at work.
The way MLG run this qualifier works perfectly with what i believe is there current business plan for SC2 - create a event with invited know names and sell it as "premiere", "best players" to its viewers. Ok, thats their business model and it works for them. Sadly they wanted to use the same model for WCS NA (with Blizzard approval)
Lets analyse this NA qualifier from the start (Note: i might be wrong about some parts) At first it was a RO256 double elimination bracket with 18,95$ entry fee - with 60-80 spots reserved for knows pro players (decided upon MLG) for 8 spots in Premier Division and another RO256 double elimination bracket for the contender division (what ever its called.... lets just say Code A from now on). After much public outcry and EU qualifiers they changed it to RO512 which people believed was only for the Premier division spots but in reality it was for both the premier and code A. They removed the fee but kept the 60-80 reserved spots for the pro-gamers to hand out.
So far so good. Now lets see the qualifiers tournament mechanics.
The way that MLG online tournament system works is that the players are checked into the bracket based on the time they registered for a tournament. So as long as you are one of the first to registered you are all OK to go. Imagine you registered you see you are registered with number like... 440 or more. You are thinking ok im set up and ready. Wait till check in. Click chack in and see... Cool im number 5 after check in. Im so sure im in a bracket. The times goes on and rest of the people checked it. Ok i should still be fine. I was the 440 player registered and 5 to check in. And then it hits you that MLG just put 60-80 seeds before you and you are 500++ player registered and sadly out of bracket despite early check in.
The situation above happened to the Chinese players. Yes i know it was their fault that they didn't read the fine print of MLG gambattles that the bracket is populated based on register time not check in time (like rest of tournaments in the world). But the MLG system is used only be (sorry if i offend some people) by platinum or lower players who play in those tournaments for mlg points (btw so you won't feel offended im myself a wood league player).
As the result the MLG got what they wanted. The players that were seeded into those reserved 60-80 spots got the 8 spots in premiere league. MLG got its stars to show us and keep their viewers numbers. We should all be happy?
This is your speculation or official? If official, source? Either ways when you are in charge of a big event like this, you can't just casually say 'oh sorry better luck next time' after you fuck up. Not when you are an experienced and stable organisation that jas been entrusted to do the job properly (or bought the rights to do it) it is your responsibility to ensure the best competition possible. Some mistakes can be made sure such as the hacker incident. I don't blame them for not realising hacker (s) are in the qualifier. It is difficult with hundreds of people.
But some of the mistakes are inexcusable. 512 slots on a first come first serve basis anyone can join? Come on they are professionals. They shoukd not be so naieve to believe it will allow the fairest and best to compete. Surely some will be left out. Admins also gave out misinformation. They say Chinese players were in but actually they were not...
Pure speculations. Mondays mornings are boring at work....
It's weird that it seems like they just did something without really thinking about it and preparing accordingly. These are mistakes you'd expect from a first time organiser. Not a team who has done a lot of open brackets before.
On April 22 2013 17:53 Sjokola wrote: It's weird that it seems like they just did something without really thinking about it and preparing accordingly. These are mistakes you'd expect from a first time organiser. Not a team who has done a lot of open brackets before.
Offline is different. Online seems more hectic to me. I wonder how many admins esl had on that day of 2048...
And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize.
[quote]
You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
Because working at a law firm makes you perfect... I know people who work in a law firm and are dumb as fuck.
In the post before that one I admit to making mistakes while working at the law firm. You might have missed that.
Hey I can see the fear in you. "what will happen to this shitstorm when I go to sleep, ooooh nooooeees" I guess no one is left to defend the horrible actions of MLG. Woopdiiidooo, this thread will derail stop resisting.
On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote: [quote] You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough.
If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
Because working at a law firm makes you perfect... I know people who work in a law firm and are dumb as fuck.
In the post before that one I admit to making mistakes while working at the law firm. You might have missed that.
Hey I can see the fear in you. "what will happen to this shitstorm when I go to sleep, ooooh nooooeees" I guess no one is left to defend the horrible actions of MLG. Woopdiiidooo, this thread will derail stop resisting.
Tell that to the progamers that need to feed there families, mlg is so freaking selfish. And now there stuck...
There are professional gamers out there with 5 hungry children trying to make ends meet? Why are they trying to feed their hungry children by playing SC2?
Because its there fucking job!
Well this fictional SC2 player with 5 hungry children should get a different job so he can feed them? Seriously, you are going to make the "He can't feed his babies because of what MLG did to him!" argument?
U really do not understand do you? how old are you really? U pay rent/mortgage, then u must know why the job and getting payed is important!
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen.
Because working at a law firm makes you perfect... I know people who work in a law firm and are dumb as fuck.
In the post before that one I admit to making mistakes while working at the law firm. You might have missed that.
Hey I can see the fear in you. "what will happen to this shitstorm when I go to sleep, ooooh nooooeees" I guess no one is left to defend the horrible actions of MLG. Woopdiiidooo, this thread will derail stop resisting.
On April 22 2013 17:24 Frankon wrote: Been thinking about this issue while drinking coffee at work.
The way MLG run this qualifier works perfectly with what i believe is there current business plan for SC2 - create a event with invited know names and sell it as "premiere", "best players" to its viewers. Ok, thats their business model and it works for them. Sadly they wanted to use the same model for WCS NA (with Blizzard approval)
Lets analyse this NA qualifier from the start (Note: i might be wrong about some parts) At first it was a RO256 double elimination bracket with 18,95$ entry fee - with 60-80 spots reserved for knows pro players (decided upon MLG) for 8 spots in Premier Division and another RO256 double elimination bracket for the contender division (what ever its called.... lets just say Code A from now on). After much public outcry and EU qualifiers they changed it to RO512 which people believed was only for the Premier division spots but in reality it was for both the premier and code A. They removed the fee but kept the 60-80 reserved spots for the pro-gamers to hand out.
So far so good. Now lets see the qualifiers tournament mechanics.
The way that MLG online tournament system works is that the players are checked into the bracket based on the time they registered for a tournament. So as long as you are one of the first to registered you are all OK to go. Imagine you registered you see you are registered with number like... 440 or more. You are thinking ok im set up and ready. Wait till check in. Click chack in and see... Cool im number 5 after check in. Im so sure im in a bracket. The times goes on and rest of the people checked it. Ok i should still be fine. I was the 440 player registered and 5 to check in. And then it hits you that MLG just put 60-80 seeds before you and you are 500++ player registered and sadly out of bracket despite early check in.
The situation above happened to the Chinese players. Yes i know it was their fault that they didn't read the fine print of MLG gambattles that the bracket is populated based on register time not check in time (like rest of tournaments in the world). But the MLG system is used only be (sorry if i offend some people) by platinum or lower players who play in those tournaments for mlg points (btw so you won't feel offended im myself a wood league player).
As the result the MLG got what they wanted. The players that were seeded into those reserved 60-80 spots got the 8 spots in premiere league. MLG got its stars to show us and keep their viewers numbers. We should all be happy?
But some of the mistakes are inexcusable. 512 slots on a first come first serve basis anyone can join? Come on they are professionals. They shoukd not be so naieve to believe it will allow the fairest and best to compete. Surely some will be left out. Admins also gave out misinformation. They say Chinese players were in but actually they were not...
I want to repeat this again - there is nothing "unfair" about a first come first serve basis. It's egalitarian and has clearly defined rules - you signed up first, you get to play. Maybe you think people who play this game "professionally" (take this with a pinch of salt, as I'm sure many of them do something else) deserve to jump the queue. Cool, it's an opinion, and a valid opinion, but an opinion nonetheless.
On April 22 2013 16:58 ilikeredheads wrote: So should I expect Sundance to appear on SotG and say "I get it. MLG fucked up the qualifiers. It sucks, and I fucking get it"?
At this point, the qualifiers are a farce and all MLG has done is display its total incompetence.
I cannot believe that in 2013 I firmly believe that NASL could pull a better show than MLG. I mean, ask me this 2 years ago.
Agreed. Sadly I don't even know if they would change anything even if they agree on the fact that they fucked up.
On April 22 2013 17:24 Frankon wrote: Been thinking about this issue while drinking coffee at work.
The way MLG run this qualifier works perfectly with what i believe is there current business plan for SC2 - create a event with invited know names and sell it as "premiere", "best players" to its viewers. Ok, thats their business model and it works for them. Sadly they wanted to use the same model for WCS NA (with Blizzard approval)
Lets analyse this NA qualifier from the start (Note: i might be wrong about some parts) At first it was a RO256 double elimination bracket with 18,95$ entry fee - with 60-80 spots reserved for knows pro players (decided upon MLG) for 8 spots in Premier Division and another RO256 double elimination bracket for the contender division (what ever its called.... lets just say Code A from now on). After much public outcry and EU qualifiers they changed it to RO512 which people believed was only for the Premier division spots but in reality it was for both the premier and code A. They removed the fee but kept the 60-80 reserved spots for the pro-gamers to hand out.
So far so good. Now lets see the qualifiers tournament mechanics.
The way that MLG online tournament system works is that the players are checked into the bracket based on the time they registered for a tournament. So as long as you are one of the first to registered you are all OK to go. Imagine you registered you see you are registered with number like... 440 or more. You are thinking ok im set up and ready. Wait till check in. Click chack in and see... Cool im number 5 after check in. Im so sure im in a bracket. The times goes on and rest of the people checked it. Ok i should still be fine. I was the 440 player registered and 5 to check in. And then it hits you that MLG just put 60-80 seeds before you and you are 500++ player registered and sadly out of bracket despite early check in.
The situation above happened to the Chinese players. Yes i know it was their fault that they didn't read the fine print of MLG gambattles that the bracket is populated based on register time not check in time (like rest of tournaments in the world). But the MLG system is used only be (sorry if i offend some people) by platinum or lower players who play in those tournaments for mlg points (btw so you won't feel offended im myself a wood league player).
As the result the MLG got what they wanted. The players that were seeded into those reserved 60-80 spots got the 8 spots in premiere league. MLG got its stars to show us and keep their viewers numbers. We should all be happy?
But some of the mistakes are inexcusable. 512 slots on a first come first serve basis anyone can join? Come on they are professionals. They shoukd not be so naieve to believe it will allow the fairest and best to compete. Surely some will be left out. Admins also gave out misinformation. They say Chinese players were in but actually they were not...
I want to repeat this again - there is nothing "unfair" about a first come first serve basis. It's egalitarian and has clearly defined rules - you signed up first, you get to play. Maybe you think people who play this game "professionally" (take this with a pinch of salt, as I'm sure many of them do something else) deserve to jump the queue. Cool, it's an opinion, and a valid opinion, but an opinion nonetheless.
It is unfair in a sense that stronger players don't get to advance and it's much more luck based. By your logic, randomly drawing 8 players from sign ups would not be "unfair" to anyone, as everyone would get equal chance. However, some players are better and it should be normal for them to have a better chance at advancing [ie playing the game].
On April 22 2013 16:58 ilikeredheads wrote: So should I expect Sundance to appear on SotG and say "I get it. MLG fucked up the qualifiers. It sucks, and I fucking get it"?
At this point, the qualifiers are a farce and all MLG has done is display its total incompetence.
And what else do you expect him to do? Damage is done but it's time to move on. Community may express all the anger it wants but in the end there is no fixing things without producing even more issues. And even if people had serious changes in mind they have no way to pressure MLG/Blizzard into any sort of compliance.
On April 22 2013 16:58 ilikeredheads wrote: So should I expect Sundance to appear on SotG and say "I get it. MLG fucked up the qualifiers. It sucks, and I fucking get it"?
At this point, the qualifiers are a farce and all MLG has done is display its total incompetence.
And what else do you expect him to do? Damage is done but it's time to move on. Community may express all the anger it wants but in the end there is no fixing things without producing even more issues. And even if people had serious changes in mind they have no way to pressure MLG/Blizzard into any sort of compliance.
No its not. This is supposed to be progaming. They are killing progaming in the first tournament they organize, something has to be done.
I think MLG have earned the benefit of doubt here. They made mistakes and I'm sure they'll own them and try to make it better. Since when did MLG become the devil in people's eyes?
I hope TL writes a piece on this to explain exactly what went wrong, with statements from MLG/Blizzard/Quantic/Chinese players and so on, because I'm confused. :o
"lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, MC, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Is Hyun even legible for the challenger qualifier? It was supposed to be invite-only based on the premiere qualifier and he DQ from that one.
I can't understand why blizzard would pick MLG to run the qualifiers. Don't they know what kind of company MLG is? How could they not know how far from the community and e-sports MLG stands? Also the thing that annoys me the most about MLG is that they NEVER man up and admits to being wrong. You will NEVER see MLG change their point of view or admit to doing anything wrong. They will only defend their actions and spiral even further into the shades. We have seen this time and time again.
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, MC, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Is Hyun even legible for the challenger qualifier? It was supposed to be invite-only based on the premiere qualifier and he DQ from that one.
no, he was SUPPOSED to be invited into the challenger qualifier alongside TaeJa (exception for region switching Korean Code S players) but a clusterfuck occured where MLG allowed him to briefly compete in the regular qualifier before realizing that he was inelligable
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
He shouldn't be able to play in it he's already in Code S -_-
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
He shouldn't be able to play in it he's already in Code S -_-
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, MC, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Is Hyun even legible for the challenger qualifier? It was supposed to be invite-only based on the premiere qualifier and he DQ from that one.
Also, he tried out for Code A in Korea, which was why he was DQed. Why does he think he can try out for the challenger prelims in NA? Is he that confused?
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, MC, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Is Hyun even legible for the challenger qualifier? It was supposed to be invite-only based on the premiere qualifier and he DQ from that one.
Also, he tried out for Code A in Korea, which was why he was DQed. Why does he think he can try out for the challenger prelims in NA? Is he that confused?
He never tried out for Code A in Korea, he was in Code S this season
He was DQ'd because MLG let him in the incorrect qualifier and realized it after already entering him and letting him play games
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Isn't it 9-40th from this qualifier playing to find the top 24 or something, that shouldn't take that long to weed out 7 players. I'm sure they can do it from DH (not ideal)
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, MC, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Is Hyun even legible for the challenger qualifier? It was supposed to be invite-only based on the premiere qualifier and he DQ from that one.
Also, he tried out for Code A in Korea, which was why he was DQed. Why does he think he can try out for the challenger prelims in NA? Is he that confused?
He never tried out for Code A in Korea, he was in Code S this season
Ok, so he is an idiot and doesn't understand how the system works. My god, someone needs to get him in line.
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Dreamhack is a two day tournament ending on 27th. Can't you participate in both due to the time difference, even if you make it to the DH finals?
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Dreamhack is a two day tournament ending on 27th. Can't you participate in both due to the time difference, even if you make it to the DH finals?
It doesn't matter, he is in code S and shouldn't be trying out anyways.
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Dreamhack is a two day tournament ending on 27th. Can't you participate in both due to the time difference, even if you make it to the DH finals?
It doesn't matter, he is in code S and shouldn't be trying out anyways.
Of course it matters, hyun isn't the only player affected
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Dreamhack is a two day tournament ending on 27th. Can't you participate in both due to the time difference, even if you make it to the DH finals?
It doesn't matter, he is in code S and shouldn't be trying out anyways.
Of course it matters, hyun isn't the only player affected
That is true and hopefully they will switch the date. Hyun is still an idiot, however.
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Dreamhack is a two day tournament ending on 27th. Can't you participate in both due to the time difference, even if you make it to the DH finals?
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Dreamhack is a two day tournament ending on 27th. Can't you participate in both due to the time difference, even if you make it to the DH finals?
It doesn't matter, he is in code S and shouldn't be trying out anyways.
Of course it matters, hyun isn't the only player affected
That is true and hopefully they will switch the date. Hyun is still an idiot.
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Dreamhack is a two day tournament ending on 27th. Can't you participate in both due to the time difference, even if you make it to the DH finals?
It doesn't matter, he is in code S and shouldn't be trying out anyways.
Aren't current Code S people allowed to try for the Challenger League? I always thought they were.
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Dreamhack is a two day tournament ending on 27th. Can't you participate in both due to the time difference, even if you make it to the DH finals?
It doesn't matter, he is in code S and shouldn't be trying out anyways.
Of course it matters, hyun isn't the only player affected
That is true and hopefully they will switch the date. Hyun is still an idiot.
No he is great!
Every other Korean player in the world figured out that you couldn't be in both the NA WCS and the GSL at the same time. And after being DQ yesterday, he still thinks he can play. He is being a little thick right now.
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Dreamhack is a two day tournament ending on 27th. Can't you participate in both due to the time difference, even if you make it to the DH finals?
It doesn't matter, he is in code S and shouldn't be trying out anyways.
It is the tournament he SHOULD be playing in according to the rules
stop making posts without any understanding of the rules
How about.. running another qualifier? same format, altho properly executed. And just for fun, have the 8 who qualified from this round face off against the 8 from the new one.
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Dreamhack is a two day tournament ending on 27th. Can't you participate in both due to the time difference, even if you make it to the DH finals?
It doesn't matter, he is in code S and shouldn't be trying out anyways.
Of course it matters, hyun isn't the only player affected
That is true and hopefully they will switch the date. Hyun is still an idiot.
No he is great!
Every other Korean player in the world figured out that you couldn't be in both the NA WCS and the GSL at the same time. And after being DQ yesterday, he still thinks he can play. He is being a little thick right now.
IF you read the rules it says that code S players are allowed to try to qualify for the Challenger League
On April 22 2013 19:55 Waxangel wrote: This just in:
https://twitter.com/QuanticHyuN/status/326285392410185728 "lololololololol the challenger prelims are no the 27th? Looks like I'm forced to sit out of season II because I decided to go to DreamHack and pick the NA region lololololololol. Amazing~~~ tournament planning!!!!
On a side note, Jaedong, JYP, Zenio, and Center are also competing in the challenger prelim as well as DH
Dreamhack is a two day tournament ending on 27th. Can't you participate in both due to the time difference, even if you make it to the DH finals?
It doesn't matter, he is in code S and shouldn't be trying out anyways.
Aren't current Code S people allowed to try for the Challenger League? I always thought they were.
Oh he now has a lock icon next to his name lol. Go Wax!
So let's put the statement of the MLG and the statement of the ESL side by side:
MLG:
https://twitter.com/MLGSundance/status/326281104397058048 Statement from MLG this morning regarding the WCS events of this past weekend.
Not saying it was perfect but lots of bad info flying about.
ESL:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1cgq5l/esl_fucks_up_again/c9gflq1 While I feel that the flak we got for the first two qualifiers is deserved, I feel we are at a point where anyone screams "injustice" and the angry mob follows.
Facts:
We do not have unlimited time to complete the qualification process. WCS begins next week.
4 cups were planned for the qualification process.
Cup 1 was unlimited, ended up running on a 1024 player bracket.
Cup 2 was announced for 256 players, was increased to 512 (it started prematurely and still finished shortly before 1am).
Cup 3 was announced for 256 players, was increased to 512.
Cup 4 was announced as unlimited and will run over two days if need be.
The referees have a list of 60 players that are certain to get into the cup if they want it based on prior tournament results and community standing. The referees take time and contact the players via Skype or via email, or via their management, to sign them up.
We would obviously love to accept every single player that wants to join, but that's what cups 1 and 4 were there for from the beginning.
Again: while I accept the criticism for Cup 1 (it was delayed because of a bug in the seeding script and the referees actually manually seeded 512 players out of the 1024) and for Cup 2, and we've had quite the meeting today about those mistakes, this here thing is becoming a bit of a witch hunt.
We have made mistakes, but we have taken several steps towards the community as well: free to play qualifiers, increased cups, meticulous seeding and making sure relevant and semi-relevant players are able to play.
and
I certainly see where you're coming from. Maybe we could have done some things better, however establishing a league encompassing 50 countries in the space of a couple of weeks is not a simple task.
Note that 24 players in Europe and 24 in North America were hand picked and invited into the league. You can easily imagine and understand why it was done. Pre-seeding players is an extension of the same logic. It's not a manipulation of the system, it's a clear extension of it. If you take issue with it, then I assume you also take issue with 24 players being invited. And I understand the sentiment.
Also: of course we do get paid to do this. So does GSL, WCG, MLG, DreamHack, NASL and everyone else.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1cgq5l/esl_fucks_up_again/c9gflq1 While I feel that the flak we got for the first two qualifiers is deserved, I feel we are at a point where anyone screams "injustice" and the angry mob follows.
Facts:
We do not have unlimited time to complete the qualification process. WCS begins next week.
4 cups were planned for the qualification process.
Cup 1 was unlimited, ended up running on a 1024 player bracket.
Cup 2 was announced for 256 players, was increased to 512 (it started prematurely and still finished shortly before 1am).
Cup 3 was announced for 256 players, was increased to 512.
Cup 4 was announced as unlimited and will run over two days if need be.
The referees have a list of 60 players that are certain to get into the cup if they want it based on prior tournament results and community standing. The referees take time and contact the players via Skype or via email, or via their management, to sign them up.
We would obviously love to accept every single player that wants to join, but that's what cups 1 and 4 were there for from the beginning.
Again: while I accept the criticism for Cup 1 (it was delayed because of a bug in the seeding script and the referees actually manually seeded 512 players out of the 1024) and for Cup 2, and we've had quite the meeting today about those mistakes, this here thing is becoming a bit of a witch hunt.
We have made mistakes, but we have taken several steps towards the community as well: free to play qualifiers, increased cups, meticulous seeding and making sure relevant and semi-relevant players are able to play.
and
I certainly see where you're coming from. Maybe we could have done some things better, however establishing a league encompassing 50 countries in the space of a couple of weeks is not a simple task.
Note that 24 players in Europe and 24 in North America were hand picked and invited into the league. You can easily imagine and understand why it was done. Pre-seeding players is an extension of the same logic. It's not a manipulation of the system, it's a clear extension of it. If you take issue with it, then I assume you also take issue with 24 players being invited. And I understand the sentiment.
Also: of course we do get paid to do this. So does GSL, WCG, MLG, DreamHack, NASL and everyone else.
Hes downplayin allready.. like its a zotaccup.. go figure..
On April 22 2013 17:34 TechNoTrance wrote: Amidst all the terrible management, administration, and planning of MLG, we shouldn't forget the solid casting Axeltoss and Axslav did (and their guest casters). At least they gave us a reason to keep watching.
Hopefully MLG learns something from this disastrous event.
Unfortunately, the co-caster who got the most airtime was the city skyline...
In addition to the statements posted above, I want to mention that a Korean player checked-in 65 seconds too late for an ESL qualifier. One player gave up his spot for him - no problems at all. ESL > MLG in every term.
This qualifier has been a major disappointment in terms of not being able to watch the players you want (only one stream). And I'm not gonna lie..The casting is fairly low quality. There have been some good games though of course.
Overall, EU was much more entertaining, being able to watching different streams. There were also way better story lines in EU since there were many good players from different countries and the koreans could be taken out. (I know these weren't the best koreans and there is a latency issue, but I think if they played on NA server against "better" koreans, I don't believe it would be so one-sided as it was in NA qualifier...dem EU hellbat drops, man).
When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
This has turned into a complete trainwreck. How the hell is it possible to mess up so much..This whole WCS thing is a complete joke and makes sc2 look bad in every way.
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
It's not okay when you had ESL ran the same type of qualifier for the same tournament in a different region with a better job. They had examples and mistakes to learn from, but this is going backwards taking all the positive points and turned it around into a big mess. It's mistake after mistake after mistake, and no communication at all amongst themselves, to the players/teams, or to the audience.
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
No they couldnt! Map pool is one of the things that blizzard has determined for wcs and is not in the power of mlg to screw up.
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
Literally was perfectly fine here if you don't make up for artificial scenarios or do you feel the need to point out that literally in this case could only be used for the worst case possible?
On April 22 2013 20:19 JustPassingBy wrote: So let's put the statement of the MLG and the statement of the ESL side by side:
There is no MLG statement yet. Just a announcement of one.
bullshit takes time to write :D
They should hire Plansix who I've heard is a great lawyer.
MLG will bring some smoke I think and we will all happily forget about everything. A guy like Sundance doesn't reach far if he is not likeable and Sundace surely is.
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
No they couldnt! Map pool is one of the things that blizzard has determined for wcs and is not in the power of mlg to screw up.
Nope, why do you think they still had Cloud kingdom
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
Literally was perfectly fine here if you don't make up for artificial scenarios or do you feel the need to point out that literally in this case could only be used for the worst case possible?
look, just because you couldn't defeat England in a war doesn't mean you have to try to destroy their language decades later
Yes I'm aware of all the flaws in this statement, it's a joke
On April 22 2013 20:19 JustPassingBy wrote: So let's put the statement of the MLG and the statement of the ESL side by side:
There is no MLG statement yet. Just a announcement of one.
bullshit takes time to write :D
Wait that was an announcement? Lol, I though the one liner was the statement... Idiot me... <.<
Sundance later tweeted again blaming coffee and being sleepy. It was obvious that wasn't the statement but poor writing got the best of him lol.
Sundance doesn't care much about PR as we've learned (silly him).
On the topic: The biggest mistake MLG made was having just 1 qualifier; While ESL was able to improve on their mistakes (that are for the most part understandable considering the amount of players and the little time they had) , MLG is now left with this rather unfortunate situation.
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
Literally was perfectly fine here if you don't make up for artificial scenarios or do you feel the need to point out that literally in this case could only be used for the worst case possible?
look, just because you couldn't defeat England in a war doesn't mean you have to try to destroy their language decades later
Yes I'm aware of all the flaws in this statement, it's a joke
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
No they couldnt! Map pool is one of the things that blizzard has determined for wcs and is not in the power of mlg to screw up.
Nope, why do you think they still had Cloud kingdom
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
Literally was perfectly fine here if you don't make up for artificial scenarios or do you feel the need to point out that literally in this case could only be used for the worst case possible?
look, just because you couldn't defeat England in a war doesn't mean you have to try to destroy their language decades later
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
Literally was perfectly fine here if you don't make up for artificial scenarios or do you feel the need to point out that literally in this case could only be used for the worst case possible?
look, just because you couldn't defeat England in a war doesn't mean you have to try to destroy their language decades later
Yes I'm aware of all the flaws in this statement, it's a joke
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
Literally was perfectly fine here if you don't make up for artificial scenarios or do you feel the need to point out that literally in this case could only be used for the worst case possible?
look, just because you couldn't defeat England in a war doesn't mean you have to try to destroy their language decades later
Yes I'm aware of all the flaws in this statement, it's a joke
Yes the flaw is that its a racist joke.
ya, defintlity Godwin's law, Nazi Germany here we come!
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
Literally was perfectly fine here if you don't make up for artificial scenarios or do you feel the need to point out that literally in this case could only be used for the worst case possible?
look, just because you couldn't defeat England in a war doesn't mean you have to try to destroy their language decades later
Yes I'm aware of all the flaws in this statement, it's a joke
Yes the flaw is that its a racist joke.
Making fun of another country is not racist. That statement is litererally no reason to be thin-skinned
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
Literally was perfectly fine here if you don't make up for artificial scenarios or do you feel the need to point out that literally in this case could only be used for the worst case possible?
look, just because you couldn't defeat England in a war doesn't mean you have to try to destroy their language decades later
Yes I'm aware of all the flaws in this statement, it's a joke
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
I can come up with a few suggestions as to how the tournament "literally" could've been worse, they couldve made it an offline tournament on the top of a dead elephant, gamers would have to be high on meth before they played and then the elephant was on fire, how about that? (:
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
Literally was perfectly fine here if you don't make up for artificial scenarios or do you feel the need to point out that literally in this case could only be used for the worst case possible?
look, just because you couldn't defeat England in a war doesn't mean you have to try to destroy their language decades later
Yes I'm aware of all the flaws in this statement, it's a joke
Yes the flaw is that its a racist joke.
Indeed, that edit sure does make the racism acceptable though... bad Waxy, bad....
ah. I had just seen people posting that it was supposed to be next weekend. I think a MLG admin might have said it. let me see if I can find it. whelp I tried looking for a few seconds but couldnt find it. maybe I'm wrong. I just thought I remembered people saying it was invite only qualifier next week with #9-40 from this tournament but maybe I just added things together as I read them.
On April 22 2013 21:09 Waxangel wrote: back on topic, HyuN says he received the information about the Challenger Qualifier date being on April 27th from an MLG admin via email
I thought MLG and Dreamhack some time ago agreed to avoid scheduling conflicts. But maybe I don't remember correctly.
Anyway seems strange to have the challenger qualifier on a saturday. I mean, on what days during the week are non WCS events supposed to take place?
On April 22 2013 21:12 FSKi wrote: I came to this thread expecting to see how well the qualifiers were going and who qualified, but crap was I in for a surprise
Yeah, things didn't go too well yesterday I have to tell ya. But on the bright side: The disqualifiers did great! this is also a joke and not a very original one, I know
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
I can come up with a few suggestions as to how the tournament "literally" could've been worse, they couldve made it an offline tournament on the top of a dead elephant, gamers would have to be high on meth before they played and then the elephant was on fire, how about that? (:
I'm just a fan, but I feel like sharing my experience here.
I wanted to know how Demuslim was doing. I couldn't find anything relevant on google. WCS NA qualifiers returned results from last year. No info! Well, off to Twitch. Ahah, the qualifiers! I start watching the stream. Axeltoss and Axslav don't work well together, at all. Also, Axel-who? What is he doing there? Who are these people whose game I'm watching? Which round is it? Did Demu play already? Was he eliminated? Ah, I've heard of HIM! (not sure Axeltoss has, though). Demu coming up! He doesn't get introduced properly and neither does his opponent. Idra mentions on his stream that Demu is playing Jaedong soon, so he's gonna win this. Well, great. I'm definitely staying to watch even though it's past 4 am. The stream ends (but doesn't really for a while)... What just happened?!
This morning I learn here that Muslim somehow beat Jaedong, but apparently ultimately lost to another Korean. Did he really? Is this screenshot from Demu's Twitter real? When would these games be broadcast? Why is this such a colossal clusterkitty?!
On April 22 2013 21:23 ltkAlpha wrote: I'm just a fan, but I feel like sharing my experience here.
I wanted to know how Demuslim was doing. I couldn't find anything relevant on google. WCS NA qualifiers returned results from last year. No info! Well, off to Twitch. Ahah, the qualifiers! I start watching the stream. Axeltoss and Axslav don't work well together, at all. Also, Axel-who? What is he doing there? Who are these people whose game I'm watching? Which round is it? Did Demu play already? Was he eliminated? Ah, I've heard of HIM! (not sure Axeltoss has, though). Demu coming up! He doesn't get introduced properly and neither does his opponent. Idra mentions on his stream that Demu is playing Jaedong soon, so he's gonna win this. Well, great. I'm definitely staying to watch even though it's past 4 am. The stream ends (but doesn't really for a while)... What just happened?!
This morning I learn here that Muslim somehow beat Jaedong, but apparently ultimately lost to another Korean. Did he really? Is this screenshot from Demu's Twitter real? When would these games be broadcast? Why is this such a colossal clusterkitty?!
On April 22 2013 21:23 ltkAlpha wrote: I'm just a fan, but I feel like sharing my experience here.
I wanted to know how Demuslim was doing. I couldn't find anything relevant on google. WCS NA qualifiers returned results from last year. No info! Well, off to Twitch. Ahah, the qualifiers! I start watching the stream. Axeltoss and Axslav don't work well together, at all. Also, Axel-who? What is he doing there? Who are these people whose game I'm watching? Which round is it? Did Demu play already? Was he eliminated? Ah, I've heard of HIM! (not sure Axeltoss has, though). Demu coming up! He doesn't get introduced properly and neither does his opponent. Idra mentions on his stream that Demu is playing Jaedong soon, so he's gonna win this. Well, great. I'm definitely staying to watch even though it's past 4 am. The stream ends (but doesn't really for a while)... What just happened?!
This morning I learn here that Muslim somehow beat Jaedong, but apparently ultimately lost to another Korean. Did he really? Is this screenshot from Demu's Twitter real? When would these games be broadcast? Why is this such a colossal clusterkitty?!
i had the exact same problem itkalpha! there is no storytelling from MLG at all. the games they cast seem very random. i wish blizzard would have made a better job selecting the partners for each region. NASL should have been asked!
On April 22 2013 21:09 Waxangel wrote: back on topic, HyuN says he received the information about the Challenger Qualifier date being on April 27th from an MLG admin via email
On April 22 2013 20:40 NEEDZMOAR wrote: When did sc2 fans become bitter, angry spoiled crybabies? Did you seriously expect everything to go 100% smooth the first time around? of course there will be adjustments though some points are just silly.
things like downtime in between matches could easily be fixed, complaints about not knowing about hackers even though forums have been writing about them is just stupid, does anyone seriously think that MLG would eliminate guys without more "official" proof?
Are you seriously calling that tournament fine, but not 100% smooth? It literally could not have been run worse.
Argh, stop using literally wrong
there's a lot of ways it could have been run worse, like they could have held the entire tournament on gold base antiga shipyard
Literally was perfectly fine here if you don't make up for artificial scenarios or do you feel the need to point out that literally in this case could only be used for the worst case possible?
look, just because you couldn't defeat England in a war doesn't mean you have to try to destroy their language decades later
Yes I'm aware of all the flaws in this statement, it's a joke
at least we destroy them regularly in football (soccer) matches
On April 22 2013 21:30 fabstr wrote: i had the exact same problem itkalpha! there is no storytelling from MLG at all. the games they cast seem very random. i wish blizzard would have made a better job selecting the partners for each region. NASL should have been asked!
Obviously they chose mlg because they can show the new yorker skyline inbetween games.
i can see how that is more important than good casters with personality, online tournament experience and the ability to produce fun content for downtime ^^
I remember seeing stuff off and on throughout the week about how the Dreamhack Koreans better qualify or else they'll have to play their qualifiers from sweden so it must have been known for a couple of days. April 16th sounds about right
On April 22 2013 21:53 riyanme wrote: Is WCS AMERICA done already? Who's in and who's out? Liquipedia doesnt say anything...
LQP pages are either locked or edits get reverted; I guess because MLG wants to cast the rest from replays. The qualifiers for the Premier Division (Code S) are over.
Following players made it through the qualifier: + Show Spoiler +
Alicia TheStC Revival Oz Apocalypse CranK Heart aLive
On April 22 2013 22:04 SpikeStarcraft wrote: So mlg tries to hide the results because otherwise no one watches the replay casts?
I was wondering what was wrong with the liquipedia brackets
Nothing. MLG brackets from Saturday had two people in the wrong places (Miya and Apocalypse). It was copied into LQP. When MLG corrected their brackets, no one could see, so LQP still had the old ones. It was only these two players switched. A simple message from MLG would have done it.
It's really a shame considering how much money is put into this. This is organised so badly, omfg! D: Why didn't Blizzard just stick to their concept of last year, which was quite succesful?
On April 22 2013 21:30 fabstr wrote: i had the exact same problem itkalpha! there is no storytelling from MLG at all. the games they cast seem very random. i wish blizzard would have made a better job selecting the partners for each region. NASL should have been asked!
Obviously they chose mlg because they can show the new yorker skyline inbetween games.
Man I love that new yorker skyline! Its so awesome
That info was rather clear since DeMu-JD was round 11 and mlg streamed up to LR10 Sunday night.
I'm sure the information was available somewhere and I would've found it if that was my job (or if I was more of an enthusiast and frequented teamliquid), but I would argue that it wasn't easily accessible. During my time watching the stream this morning (which was probably a couple of hours) I don't remember it being mentioned which round was being shown, where it fit in the grand scheme of things, etc.
On April 22 2013 19:35 nihlon wrote: I think MLG have earned the benefit of doubt here. They made mistakes and I'm sure they'll own them and try to make it better. Since when did MLG become the devil in people's eyes?
Hum...
Since Dallas (Eagles, yay!). Or since it's ridiculous tournament system (which first was bad and now at best is "confusing")? Or "extended series"? Or since that ppv "stunt"? Or since "I get it". Or since non stop self advertisement? (Got Gold? uagh...) Or tons and tons of downtime with endless crowdshots with the underlying endless guitar riffs? . . I'm actually surpised people are surprised about this most recent fuckup...
Seriously, MLG has done so many errors... I still don't get (it ) why some people can think back and have the opinion that NASL was EVER worse... It wasn't, it was just overhyped but alltogether they allways delivered a more "solid" product (which was oversized/overenthuastic... but never truely "bad").
On April 22 2013 19:35 nihlon wrote: I think MLG have earned the benefit of doubt here. They made mistakes and I'm sure they'll own them and try to make it better. Since when did MLG become the devil in people's eyes?
Hum...
Since Dallas (Eagles, yay!). Or since it's ridiculous tournament system (which first was bad and now at best is "confusing")? Or "extended series"? Or since that ppv "stunt"? Or since "I get it". Or since non stop self advertisement? (Got Gold? uagh...) Or tons and tons of downtime with endless crowdshots with the underlying endless guitar riffs? . . I'm actually surpised people are surprised about this most recent fuckup...
Seriously, MLG has done so many errors... I still don't get (it ) why some people can think back and have the opinion that NASL was EVER worse... It wasn't, it was just overhyped but alltogether they allways delivered a more "solid" product (which was oversized/overenthuastic... but never truely "bad").
While you might argue about the MLG system and their mistakes, they really did never fuck up in such a major way. I will jump on the bandwagon with this incident and bash them, because they deserve it, but they really don't deserve that this qualifier is named as their standard quality.
Thanks. So the top 16 would be 14 KO, 1 CN and 1 NA? Good lord... If this is the first result of the so called WCS "AMERICA" then the next season would be worse assuming the second wave of "EXODUS". More likely the EU would be the only place we can call "foreigner haven".
Thanks. So the top 16 would be 14 KO, 1 CN and 1 NA? Good lord... If this is the first result of the so called WCS "AMERICA" then the next season would be worse assuming the second wave of "EXODUS". More likely the EU would be the only place we can call "foreigner haven".
Some NA players already decided to play on EU because of that. ^.^"
Thanks. So the top 16 would be 14 KO, 1 CN and 1 NA? Good lord... If this is the first result of the so called WCS "AMERICA" then the next season would be worse assuming the second wave of "EXODUS". More likely the EU would be the only place we can call "foreigner haven".
In the top 16 it's 3 CN(including the 1 DQ'd), 1 EU, 1 NA, 11 KR.
Oh the horror. MLG messed up a qualifier...now 10 or so good players missed out on a .02% chance to make it through a 500 man SC2 tournament. And *gasp* they didn't allow community casters to stream all the games!! This is almost worse than the Boston bombings. Fuck it, it is worse. That's why I'm gonna use harsher language and get more riled up about this than I do about real problems.
Lol c'mon people...check your tone. Gamers complain way too much.
On April 22 2013 23:17 Doodsmack wrote: Oh the horror. MLG messed up a qualifier...now 10 or so good players missed out on a .02% chance to make it through a 500 man SC2 tournament. And *gasp* they didn't allow community casters to stream all the games!! This is almost worse than the Boston bombings. Fuck it, it is worse. That's why I'm gonna use harsher language and get more riled up about this than I do about real problems.
Lol c'mon people...check your tone. Gamers complain way too much.
How about checking your own tone, you are the one comparing this to the Boston bombings after all.
On April 22 2013 23:17 Doodsmack wrote: Oh the horror. MLG messed up a qualifier...now 10 or so good players missed out on a .02% chance to make it through a 500 man SC2 tournament. And *gasp* they didn't allow community casters to stream all the games!! This is almost worse than the Boston bombings. Fuck it, it is worse. That's why I'm gonna use harsher language and get more riled up about this than I do about real problems.
Lol c'mon people...check your tone. Gamers complain way too much.
How about checking your own tone, you are the one comparing this to the Boston bombings after all.
I dont get why he keeps posting in these threads if it matters so little. He just keeps posting the same stuff over and over but he also doesnt care
On April 22 2013 23:17 Doodsmack wrote: Oh the horror. MLG messed up a qualifier...now 10 or so good players missed out on a .02% chance to make it through a 500 man SC2 tournament. And *gasp* they didn't allow community casters to stream all the games!! This is almost worse than the Boston bombings. Fuck it, it is worse. That's why I'm gonna use harsher language and get more riled up about this than I do about real problems.
Lol c'mon people...check your tone. Gamers complain way too much.
You are complaining, too, about the people who complain. And sarcasm is not any better than rage.
On April 22 2013 23:17 Doodsmack wrote: Oh the horror. MLG messed up a qualifier...now 10 or so good players missed out on a .02% chance to make it through a 500 man SC2 tournament. And *gasp* they didn't allow community casters to stream all the games!! This is almost worse than the Boston bombings. Fuck it, it is worse. That's why I'm gonna use harsher language and get more riled up about this than I do about real problems.
Lol c'mon people...check your tone. Gamers complain way too much.
And what did wise Doodsmack say: [Make fun by exaggerating], [the guys arbitrarily excluded would not have won anyway], [strawman the fact that casting was sub-par], [hyperbole some more using a sensitive topic to many], [belittle people in the thread], [hide cheaters being allowed to play, arbitrary admin actions that delegitimize the bracket and take away people's right to compete (Comm), terrible bracket management, etc]
Either think your post through and respond to the actual points, or don't post. If you're happy to watch such a tournament, go ahead. But this was one of the worst viewer and competitor experiences in years and I, for one, don't want the best SC2 has to offer to be so bad.
Edit: And he's banned before I finish my response.
On April 22 2013 23:17 Doodsmack wrote: Oh the horror. MLG messed up a qualifier...now 10 or so good players missed out on a .02% chance to make it through a 500 man SC2 tournament. And *gasp* they didn't allow community casters to stream all the games!! This is almost worse than the Boston bombings. Fuck it, it is worse. That's why I'm gonna use harsher language and get more riled up about this than I do about real problems.
Lol c'mon people...check your tone. Gamers complain way too much.
Yeah, so let's use viewers when it's useful (i.e. when looking for sponsors "please, tweet to my sponsor your support even if you don't know them or haven't bought any of their products") but ignore them when they say something is wrong.
The community often overreacts (in good and bad fashion), it's a fact, but that's how it is.
Can somebody clarrify me on this issue.... Are those KO players who choose to play in WCS America are ALLOWED ONLY to play on this server and of the same registered/declared account? What I'm trying to say is that even though KO are in WCS America, are they really helping the NA players improve their game by restrictedly playing/practicing on the same server. Perhaps the region lock is on tournaments basis only and not the ladder ones.
On April 22 2013 23:37 riyanme wrote: Can somebody clarrify me on this issue.... Are those KO players who choose to play in WCS America are ALLOWED ONLY to play on this server and of the same registered/declared account? What I'm trying to say is that even though KO are in WCS America, are they really helping the NA players improve their game by restrictedly playing/practicing on the same server. Perhaps the region lock is on tournaments basis only and not the ladder ones.
The lock only means they can't compete in WCS Korea or Europe. There is no other restriction.
No way in hell those players are practising on NA.
On April 22 2013 23:37 riyanme wrote: Can somebody clarrify me on this issue.... Are those KO players who choose to play in WCS America are ALLOWED ONLY to play on this server and of the same registered/declared account? What I'm trying to say is that even though KO are in WCS America, are they really helping the NA players improve their game by restrictedly playing/practicing on the same server. Perhaps the region lock is on tournaments basis only and not the ladder ones.
As far as I know it has nothing to do with regular ladder play. How can they even enforce that? You could just have another account and play through a different IP (if Blizzard would even go that far!). On the other hand they could require you to "play at least X games on this acc to prove your activity in this region".
No.. no way :D, there is no such limitation and rule for laddering..
On April 22 2013 23:39 Richard4021 wrote: I believe Hyun should be ban from Korean region WCS compitetition for mess up other region qualifier. MLG should bring it to the WCS admin..
And what should they say about themselves? They let a known hacker defeat several people in their own qualifier before they banned him. Should MLG ask the WCS admin to ban MLG?
What i don't get about the whole Hyun fiasco is why the fuck did anybody actually play games against him ? It should've been perfectly clear to anyone that he wouldn't be allowed in this. My first reaction upon seeing Hyun as an opponent would've been "hmm something ain't right here , better contact an admin" .
On April 22 2013 23:39 Richard4021 wrote: I believe Hyun should be ban from Korean region WCS compitetition for mess up other region qualifier. MLG should bring it to the WCS admin..
While I believe Hyun was partially at fault for signing up and playing for the wrong qualifier, the bigger fault lies in MLG for letting him play, then being indecisive whether or not to DQ him. Just incompetent.
Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance 4h Statement from MLG this morning regarding the WCS events of this past weekend. Not saying it was perfect but lots of bad info flying about. Expand
Silvano Bovo Silvano Bovo @NarutOSC2 4h @MLGSundance Calling it 'not perfect' is an insult to the community to begin with. Expand
Sundance DiGiovanni Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance 4h @NarutOSC2 insult? Really? Somehow we don't see eye to eye on this. Did we make mistakes? Yes. Will we fix them? Yes. Expand
Silvano Bovo Silvano Bovo @NarutOSC2 24s @MLGSundance My statement might be a bit harsh, always supported you but those mistakes seem to be unfixable. Waiting for the statement.
So I guess we'll have to wait. Really curious on how they are planning to fix it.
On April 22 2013 23:37 riyanme wrote: Can somebody clarrify me on this issue.... Are those KO players who choose to play in WCS America are ALLOWED ONLY to play on this server and of the same registered/declared account? What I'm trying to say is that even though KO are in WCS America, are they really helping the NA players improve their game by restrictedly playing/practicing on the same server. Perhaps the region lock is on tournaments basis only and not the ladder ones.
The lock only means they can't compete in WCS Korea or Europe. There is no other restriction.
No way in hell those players are practising on NA.
Jumping out of the bandwagon, NA peeps should take it as a challenge for them to enjoy rather than compete to earn / for fame.
edit: WCS was a label then. Masking over main tourneys in KO, NA and EU. Yet they somehow standardized the even distribution of prize money and point system, making DH and WCG as side shows???
I just want to inform that I will never buy anything connected to MLG due to how you handled the WCG qualifier if no official apologize is realesed.
- Leaving the best chinese players out (WTF?!) - Allowing hackers to play in the tournament - Only having ONE stream
I seriously think any person with a little interest in the E-sport-scene had realised 512 spots with ANYONE allowed to sign up was a bad idea. But not you.
I'm assuming he just means that next time around the same mistakes won't be made. Honestly, I don't really get what the rage is for now. You could have just gotten your rage out before the tournament, as none of this should come as a surprise now. There's no anti hack. Who knows how many hacked. But, it's moot since Koreans will take all spots, anyways.
They were originally charging 20 dollars for entry = not many people would be playing in the tournament given 0 odds and 0 ways to prevent cheating from f'ing you over. Removing the entry fee = they're now actually forced to run a tournament that 1 afk person couldn't handle.
Honestly, if they can run a tournament with so many issues and it's impossible to care, then there's probably a bigger issue.. No one should care about how it was run. Should care more that it took place at all. That's the real farce.
On April 23 2013 00:16 playa wrote: I'm assuming he just means that next time around the same mistakes won't be made. Honestly, I don't really get what the rage is for now. You could have just gotten your rage out before the tournament, as none of this should come as a surprise now. There's no anti hack. Who knows how many hacked. But, it's moot since Koreans will take all spots, anyways.
They were originally charging 20 dollars for entry = not many people would be playing in the tournament given 0 odds and 0 ways to prevent cheating from f'ing you over. Removing the entry fee = they're now actually forced to run a tournament that 1 afk person couldn't handle.
Honestly, if they can run a tournament with so many issues and it's impossible to care, then there's probably a bigger issue.. No one should care about how it was run. Should care more that it took place at all. That's the real farce.
If they would went with the tournament fee we would get 40 koreans in the bracket and 470 gold or plat leaguers.
On April 23 2013 00:08 Glorfindel! wrote: I just wrote MLG:
Hello
I just want to inform that I will never buy anything connected to MLG due to how you handled the WCG qualifier if no official apologize is realesed.
- Leaving the best chinese players out (WTF?!) - Allowing hackers to play in the tournament - Only having ONE stream
I seriously think any person with a little interest in the E-sport-scene had realised 512 spots with ANYONE allowed to sign up was a bad idea. But not you.
Lets not forget everyone that Blizzard is also at fault here, MLG is at the whim of Blizzards decisions and people should be tweeting Mike Morhaim just as much as Sundance.
On April 23 2013 00:08 Glorfindel! wrote: I just wrote MLG:
Hello
I just want to inform that I will never buy anything connected to MLG due to how you handled the WCG qualifier if no official apologize is realesed.
- Leaving the best chinese players out (WTF?!) - Allowing hackers to play in the tournament - Only having ONE stream
I seriously think any person with a little interest in the E-sport-scene had realised 512 spots with ANYONE allowed to sign up was a bad idea. But not you.
I am very disappointed in you, MLG.
//My Name
WCG is a whole different mess from WCS, two different tourneys =D
On April 23 2013 00:36 Esoterikk wrote: Lets not forget everyone that Blizzard is also at fault here, MLG is at the whim of Blizzards decisions and people should be tweeting Mike Morhaim just as much as Sundance.
The only way that Blizzard at fault is for the questionable decision of entrusting MLG with WCS NA. MLG's fuckups are their own.
On April 23 2013 00:36 Esoterikk wrote: Lets not forget everyone that Blizzard is also at fault here, MLG is at the whim of Blizzards decisions and people should be tweeting Mike Morhaim just as much as Sundance.
Why? Blizzard didn't run the tournament. They didn't let a hacker play through several rounds of a tournament. They didn't kick out a number of Chinese players for no apparent reason. They didn't let Hyun play in a premiere league qualifier for another reason. MLG screwed this up horribly from the start, not Blizzard.
On April 23 2013 00:36 Esoterikk wrote: Lets not forget everyone that Blizzard is also at fault here, MLG is at the whim of Blizzards decisions and people should be tweeting Mike Morhaim just as much as Sundance.
Blizzard made MLG have a 512 player limit and put no restriction on entrants or given a priority on PRO gamers? Blizzard allowed hackers to get in, eliminate good players and then DQ him afterwards? Blizzard let QuanticHyun go out, destroy lots of people, and only in the end DQ him for being in WCS Korea? (I mean, come on, this is Hyun, one of the most popular players out there, not even a nobody)
You're right, Blizzard let them do that.
You know, that's the biggest problem. We understand mistakes are made, but it's absolutely insulting that MLG does nothing, pleads ignorance and Sundance, the head of MLG, doesn't come out to acknowledge that mistakes were made, and this is what they're going to do to solve it. Instead of deflecting blame on others, figure out what THEY can do. Considering everything that's listed is something that MLG could've prevented or done something about... Simply put, the way MLG is handling this is exactly how I feel EA/Maxis handled SimCity, and it's absolutely awful.
I feel like Blizzard should've waited to do this whole thing. I mean honestly why start this shit 1/3 through the year? Give people more time to organize and get everything down and I bet this shit doesn't happen. GSL went fine because the only thing they did was rename it to WCS Korea. ESL and MLG had to essentially create events and god knows how much time they had to get everything down.
Oh and if HyuN knew he was breaking the rules he should get some form of punishment. It's just exploiting. That being said I'm sure Blizzard fucked up massively in getting players the information. Hell I bet they fucked up getting it to MLG. I mean it's not MLG's tournament, it's Blizzard's, and I bet MLG didn't know all the rules that well either.
So do you people not believe Blizzard are a part of rushing this whole thing like crazy? It's a bit weird not to put some blame of Blizzard when we wouldn't have this format without their participation and it certainly wouldn't have happened so soon.
Blizzard's idea was a good one I think, letting established leagues/tournaments run the qualifiers, but they made a huge error in judgement in entrusting MLG to it. They have always seemed far more interested in squeezing out competition (IPL, now NASL) than ever actually delivering a superior product. It's clear they cut corners and did as little work as they thought they could get away with here.
I can't blame Blizzard much in the end, the vast majority of fault lies with MLG. No one should be happy with it, no one should accept it and say "oh well next time lol" MLG have been in this business longer than anyone else in North America, there's no excuses for this.
On April 23 2013 00:49 nihlon wrote: So do you people not believe Blizzard are a part of rushing this whole thing like crazy? It's a bit weird not to put some blame of Blizzard when we wouldn't have this format without their participation and it certainly wouldn't have happened so soon.
Blizzard is def part of the problem, but it's more of a whole problem rather than just WCS NA.
Agreed that MLG needs to be held accountable for THIS screw up but the larger issue with the WCS as a whole that fostered this type of garbage is on Blizzards shoulders and if we point out fingers to hard at MLG we miss the bigger problem.
On April 23 2013 00:49 floor exercise wrote: Blizzard's idea was a good one I think, letting established leagues/tournaments run the qualifiers, but they made a huge error in judgement in entrusting MLG to it. They have always seemed far more interested in squeezing out competition (IPL, now NASL) than ever actually delivering a superior product. It's clear they cut corners and did as little work as they thought they could get away with here.
I can't blame Blizzard much in the end, the vast majority of fault lies with MLG. No one should be happy with it, no one should accept it and say "oh well next time lol" MLG have been in this business longer than anyone else in North America, there's no excuses for this.
I fail to see how MLG had a part in pushing out IPL. IPL fell because of their desire to sell their brand and to transition to a different role, as well as the fact that their tournaments were not profitable yet. MLG didn't cause the fall of IPL hardly at all. I also find it hard to believe that you can push out competition with an inferior product. MLG hasn't been horrible befor this, they made some mistakes(PPV, extended series) but they rectified those issues before. All the problems of this joke of a qualified put them in a horrible light now but they weren't bad by any stretch before this.
On April 22 2013 23:52 Type|NarutO wrote: Twitter Sundance/Me:
Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance 4h Statement from MLG this morning regarding the WCS events of this past weekend. Not saying it was perfect but lots of bad info flying about. Expand
Silvano Bovo Silvano Bovo @NarutOSC2 4h @MLGSundance Calling it 'not perfect' is an insult to the community to begin with. Expand
Sundance DiGiovanni Sundance DiGiovanni @MLGSundance 4h @NarutOSC2 insult? Really? Somehow we don't see eye to eye on this. Did we make mistakes? Yes. Will we fix them? Yes. Expand
Silvano Bovo Silvano Bovo @NarutOSC2 24s @MLGSundance My statement might be a bit harsh, always supported you but those mistakes seem to be unfixable. Waiting for the statement.
So I guess we'll have to wait. Really curious on how they are planning to fix it.
Yeah, I don't see any way for them to "fix" this. Run a second qualifier? Not fair to the people who have already qualified. Anything else? Not fair to the Chinese (among other) pros who weren't allowed a chance to qualify, nor to the people knocked down by Comm, Physicslee, or Hyun. "We'll do things better next time"? Not good enough. The point totals add up; missing out on a season puts you at a signification disadvantage for making it to the grand finals.
Personally, I'd prefer a second qualifier still given how thoroughly this one was messed up, but I highly, highly, doubt that will happen.
Well, Blizzard did say that MLG, GOM, OSL and ESL can manage their own qualifiers any way they see fit, as long as Code A and Code S are all the same in the three regions. Which means Blizzard doesn't have much authority over the current situation.
On April 23 2013 00:55 Dracid wrote: Yeah, I don't see any way for them to "fix" this. Run a second qualifier? Not fair to the people who have already qualified. Anything else? Not fair to the Chinese (among other) pros who weren't allowed a chance to qualify, nor to the people knocked down by Comm, Physicslee, or Hyun. "We'll do things better next time"? Not good enough. The point totals add up; missing out on a season puts you at a signification disadvantage for making it to the grand finals.
Personally, I'd prefer a second qualifier still given how thoroughly this one was messed up, but I highly, highly, doubt that will happen.
A second qualifier where the top 8 from this qualifier gets to face off against the top 8 of the second qualifier would be just fine. That said, MLG should've just manned up and said "Ok we derped, we'll do better next time tho!"
On April 23 2013 00:55 Dracid wrote: Yeah, I don't see any way for them to "fix" this. Run a second qualifier? Not fair to the people who have already qualified. Anything else? Not fair to the Chinese (among other) pros who weren't allowed a chance to qualify, nor to the people knocked down by Comm, Physicslee, or Hyun. "We'll do things better next time"? Not good enough. The point totals add up; missing out on a season puts you at a signification disadvantage for making it to the grand finals.
Personally, I'd prefer a second qualifier still given how thoroughly this one was messed up, but I highly, highly, doubt that will happen.
A second qualifier where the top 8 from this qualifier gets to face off against the top 8 of the second qualifier would be just fine. That said, MLG should've just manned up and said "Ok we derped, we'll do better next time tho!"
That is actually a really good idea. Too good to ever happen, but a good idea.
On April 23 2013 00:49 floor exercise wrote: Blizzard's idea was a good one I think, letting established leagues/tournaments run the qualifiers, but they made a huge error in judgement in entrusting MLG to it. They have always seemed far more interested in squeezing out competition (IPL, now NASL) than ever actually delivering a superior product. It's clear they cut corners and did as little work as they thought they could get away with here.
I can't blame Blizzard much in the end, the vast majority of fault lies with MLG. No one should be happy with it, no one should accept it and say "oh well next time lol" MLG have been in this business longer than anyone else in North America, there's no excuses for this.
No, it is Blizzard's fault for rushing this so much.
On April 23 2013 00:55 Dracid wrote: Yeah, I don't see any way for them to "fix" this. Run a second qualifier? Not fair to the people who have already qualified. Anything else? Not fair to the Chinese (among other) pros who weren't allowed a chance to qualify, nor to the people knocked down by Comm, Physicslee, or Hyun. "We'll do things better next time"? Not good enough. The point totals add up; missing out on a season puts you at a signification disadvantage for making it to the grand finals.
Personally, I'd prefer a second qualifier still given how thoroughly this one was messed up, but I highly, highly, doubt that will happen.
A second qualifier where the top 8 from this qualifier gets to face off against the top 8 of the second qualifier would be just fine. That said, MLG should've just manned up and said "Ok we derped, we'll do better next time tho!"
You know, I'd be completely okay with that. I don't think that will happen, but hey, maybe Sundance will prove me wrong.
The only major screwup I see is letting Hyun play. The chinese player situation sucks and dq'ing skilled comm is bad, but it is their own fault. Capping the tourny was a little silly as both days the time for each round was too long, over both days i think i spent more time waiting than play... Just add one more round and make wait time less.
On April 22 2013 23:44 s3rp wrote: What i don't get about the whole Hyun fiasco is why the fuck did anybody actually play games against him ? It should've been perfectly clear to anyone that he wouldn't be allowed in this. My first reaction upon seeing Hyun as an opponent would've been "hmm something ain't right here , better contact an admin" .
You would've been waiting a good hour+ to get ahold of one and probably gotten walked over in the meantime. Admins were extremely undermanned for this event.
Apparently MLG chose to do the challenger qualifiers at the same time as Dreamhack, which means that players will have to choose between the two events( most players will choose the MLG qualfiers obviously).
K the cap is not the problem what they should have done for all the qualifiers is copy the code a qualifier example: Korea 512 single elim ladder
1st in line is esf players 2nd is kespa 3rd is (korean region) master/gms with over i think at least 200-400 points 4th is any fuckin body (if theres room)
for NA 1st could be na based teams 2nd could be anyone on a pro team 3rd (na region) would be the same masters/gms over 200-400 points 4th any fucking body (if there's room)
for Europe 1st Europe based teams 2nd any team 3rd (Europe region) masters/gms over 200-400 points 4th any fucking body (if there's room)
with this entry system in place we have the players that deserve and also have a chance at winning the qualifier in the qualifier. Also this would eliminate the chances of players ALREADY IN CODE S to not be able to participate etc.
On April 23 2013 01:50 Rhaegar_tar wrote: Apparently MLG chose to do the challenger qualifiers at the same time as Dreamhack, which means that players will have to choose between the two events( most players will choose the MLG qualfiers obviously).
Fuck you MLG, you're ruining Esports.
*sigh* It's not entirely MLG's fault, but it is pretty sad.
On April 23 2013 01:50 Rhaegar_tar wrote: Apparently MLG chose to do the challenger qualifiers at the same time as Dreamhack, which means that players will have to choose between the two events( most players will choose the MLG qualfiers obviously).
Fuck you MLG, you're ruining Esports.
*sigh* It's not entirely MLG's fault, but it is pretty sad.
It is actually. It's MLG that runs the qualifiers, not Blizzard. ESL didn't do it, which means they have enough time to find an appropriate time to do it.
It's like MLG doesn't give a fuck anymore and think that they rule the scene because Blizzard gave them WCS. And Sundance's last tweets were absolutely outrageous.
On April 23 2013 00:36 Esoterikk wrote: Lets not forget everyone that Blizzard is also at fault here, MLG is at the whim of Blizzards decisions and people should be tweeting Mike Morhaim just as much as Sundance.
Um, that's sort of the starting point so how the heck can you not avoid saying Blizzard? Ofc you guys should let both of them know about your disapproval.
i really hope they bump their heads together and try to build a product that is exciting, understandable and easy to watch. if it is anywhere near the qualifier, NA will be the worst region of all of them.
honestly, you can't blame blizzard for this. They weren't part of managing this qualifier, mlg was. Yeah sure, blame blizzard for giving incentive for koreans to come to NA, but this whole fiasco, it's not their fault.
On April 22 2013 19:48 DarkSpectre wrote: Does CombatEX quit being a SC2 pro?????
CombatEX had to temporarily quit after WCG Finals because of school. However, his semester ends in early May, so look forward to him returning to the competitive scene shortly!
On April 23 2013 02:07 Cubu wrote: honestly, you can't blame blizzard for this. They weren't part of managing this qualifier, mlg was. Yeah sure, blame blizzard for giving incentive for koreans to come to NA, but this whole fiasco, it's not their fault.
It's their plan and it's their system. They outsourced it like usual, but here's the thing. They aren't acting in a sponsorship/endorsement role this time. The WCS is their brand. How anyone can think Blizzard shouldn't be accountable for the monstrosities that take place is beyond me.
For the people who say Chinese players couldn't get in. Was registration for the tournament filled up almost instantly? Open tournament means you have to sign up ASAP. (I had no problem and was pretty casual about times)
Hyun participating is pretty cheap, bad because there's only 1 qualifier. Map hack guy, PhysicsLee?, not sure who should have caught that one.
Would have been better if they had more than 1 tourney.
On April 23 2013 01:01 bgx wrote: It doesn't matter what Sundace says, isn't Blizzard the contractor?
Tweet Mike tell him how you didnt like WCS NA qualifer, and then blizzard will investigate all of the fuckups of organization they employed (MLG).
probably true, but when people blame mlg its not like a personal attack on sundance. whether the blame ultimately lies with blizzard or mlg people are just writing in mlg as short hand for the tens or hundreds of people who make the whole event happen.
On April 22 2013 19:48 DarkSpectre wrote: Does CombatEX quit being a SC2 pro?????
CombatEX had to temporarily quit after WCG Finals because of school. However, his semester ends in early May, so look forward to him returning to the competitive scene shortly!
How many times has that guy raided threads with regards to the WSC? I was right all along. Either rapid fan-boy like the bad old days or perhaps I should say it's him. lmao
I do not care about 1 channel, the low production quality, hiding results for revenue or rebroadcasts anymore as i am gonna boycot mlg broadcasts. All this stuff is irritating me so much, watching MLG for me is not worth it.
Aftermath : Biggest problem now are all of the damages caused by the registrationproces, huyn, faulty brackets and the hackers. Alot of good amateurs, semipro's and pro's are getting hard financial blows because of this shit. Is this shit nowadays called progaming?... and to make things even worse, there locked now in NA and are therefore stuck with the same organisation that fucked them in the first place.
On April 23 2013 02:07 Cubu wrote: honestly, you can't blame blizzard for this. They weren't part of managing this qualifier, mlg was. Yeah sure, blame blizzard for giving incentive for koreans to come to NA, but this whole fiasco, it's not their fault.
It's their plan and it's their system. They outsourced it like usual, but here's the thing. They aren't acting in a sponsorship/endorsement role this time. The WCS is their brand. How anyone can think Blizzard shouldn't be accountable for the monstrosities that take place is beyond me.
It wasn't there decision to cap the limit at 512, or have a double elim bracket. They set the foundation, and left it to the tournament organizers to determine how it would work. So yes, Blizzard is at some fault, but it's a big blunder by MLG none the less
Good luck rectifying those mistakes MLG. I'm curious what they have to say (genuinely) but I don't see how they could make it all nice and good. Blizzard may have to save them on this one (even then, I'm not sure what the solution is).
Good stuff from TB, as always. However, I think you missed the point on the MLG fee. It wasn't that it was $18 (though that is very high for an entry fee to a qualifier) but it was that NA/EU/KR all have the same prize pool, but NA is the only one having to pay to play. That was my point at least. Why should NA have to pay to play when EU and KR do not, but it's the same prize for all.
Also, as you even mention, there are many ways to avoid the problem of random lower league players to get into a tournament over more qualified players. Registration priority being a primary way and the way that GSL uses, which is what the format was supposed to be mimicking. They could have easily adopted the GSL priority and instead of ESF/Kespa teams getting top priority followed by masters players, they could have done NA teams, EU/KR teams, then masters players, then everyone else. Furthermore, there are websites with functionality that automatically checks and seeds players based on their ladder rank from the linked b.net profile (which MLG requests), so checking a players league can even be automated! And it would not be difficult for them to contact teams to find out which of their players are competing. Overall, so many simple mistakes were made that it is simply ridiculous that a tournament organizer as large as MLG has screwed up so badly.
The common thread to all the problems with ESL and MLG is .. Blizzard.
Both ESL and MLG were set up for failure based on a bad job done by Blizzard rushing the entire WCS 2013 into existence.
That round of interviews Morhaime did with PCGamer, GameSpot et al.... looks silly now. such PR speak as "evolve the ecosystem" .. sorry ...but my bullshit meter is in the red zone now.
On April 23 2013 02:07 Cubu wrote: honestly, you can't blame blizzard for this. They weren't part of managing this qualifier, mlg was. Yeah sure, blame blizzard for giving incentive for koreans to come to NA, but this whole fiasco, it's not their fault.
It's their plan and it's their system. They outsourced it like usual, but here's the thing. They aren't acting in a sponsorship/endorsement role this time. The WCS is their brand. How anyone can think Blizzard shouldn't be accountable for the monstrosities that take place is beyond me.
It wasn't there decision to cap the limit at 512, or have a double elim bracket. They set the foundation, and left it to the tournament organizers to determine how it would work. So yes, Blizzard is at some fault, but it's a big blunder by MLG none the less
From that start of this Series leading right up to this point in time there have been a lot of issues when it comes to clarity. We've seen a lot of managers and players speak out about it. There is no congruence. This in itself is a problem and guess who's responsible with that when it comes to formatting?
You said it yourself. Blizzard is just as liable as MLG. I don't see what else there is to talk about. They both need a wake up call.
On April 23 2013 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The common thread to all the problems with ESL and MLG is .. Blizzard.
Both ESL and MLG were set up for failure based on a bad job done by Blizzard rushing the entire WCS 2013 into existence.
That round of interviews Morhaime did with PCGamer, GameSpot et al.... looks silly now. such PR speak as "evolve the ecosystem" .. sorry ...but my bullshit meter is in the red zone now.
I have to agree, MLG might have fucked up some parts of the qualifier. But most of the larger, shittier decisions were made by blizzard and are a result of their complete lack of planning.
example: Not having any other casters able to cast the final games. Axslav and Axeltoss casted for like 9 hours, and they did a great job. But it absolutely kills the tournament to cast the finals a week later from replays.
On April 23 2013 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The common thread to all the problems with ESL and MLG is .. Blizzard.
Both ESL and MLG were set up for failure based on a bad job done by Blizzard rushing the entire WCS 2013 into existence.
That round of interviews Morhaime did with PCGamer, GameSpot et al.... looks silly now. such PR speak as "evolve the ecosystem" .. sorry ...but my bullshit meter is in the red zone now.
I have to agree, MLG might have fucked up some parts of the qualifier. But most of the larger, shittier decisions were made by blizzard and are a result of their complete lack of planning.
example: Not having any other casters able to cast the final games. Axslav and Axeltoss casted for like 9 hours, and they did a great job. But it absolutely kills the tournament to cast the finals a week later from replays.
I'm pretty sure that one's on MLG, not Blizzard. ESL, after all, had many different streams going on besides the official stream with Kaelaris. MLG also has a rule that forbids players from discussing the results of their matches. Sounds to me like MLG intended to milk the qualifier for broadcast-content for many more days by shutting out community casters and trying to keep the results hidden.
On April 23 2013 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The common thread to all the problems with ESL and MLG is .. Blizzard.
Both ESL and MLG were set up for failure based on a bad job done by Blizzard rushing the entire WCS 2013 into existence.
That round of interviews Morhaime did with PCGamer, GameSpot et al.... looks silly now. such PR speak as "evolve the ecosystem" .. sorry ...but my bullshit meter is in the red zone now.
I have to agree, MLG might have fucked up some parts of the qualifier. But most of the larger, shittier decisions were made by blizzard and are a result of their complete lack of planning.
example: Not having any other casters able to cast the final games. Axslav and Axeltoss casted for like 9 hours, and they did a great job. But it absolutely kills the tournament to cast the finals a week later from replays.
i recommend listening to TotalBiscuit's "Content Patch" show from the 8.5 minute mark on. in his usual plain speaking style he nails down the blame where it belongs.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.
And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote: I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.
And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.
I agree. I would gladly pay $20,-- to be able to get 6polled by catz or any other pro. I even think its cheap!
On April 23 2013 01:50 Rhaegar_tar wrote: Apparently MLG chose to do the challenger qualifiers at the same time as Dreamhack, which means that players will have to choose between the two events( most players will choose the MLG qualfiers obviously).
Fuck you MLG, you're ruining Esports.
Rofl are you kidding? Wow MLG, just WOW. I didn't think it was possible to dislike an organization less after WCS qualifiers but damn they are trying their hardest to be as awful as possible.
On April 23 2013 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The common thread to all the problems with ESL and MLG is .. Blizzard.
Both ESL and MLG were set up for failure based on a bad job done by Blizzard rushing the entire WCS 2013 into existence.
That round of interviews Morhaime did with PCGamer, GameSpot et al.... looks silly now. such PR speak as "evolve the ecosystem" .. sorry ...but my bullshit meter is in the red zone now.
I have to agree, MLG might have fucked up some parts of the qualifier. But most of the larger, shittier decisions were made by blizzard and are a result of their complete lack of planning.
example: Not having any other casters able to cast the final games. Axslav and Axeltoss casted for like 9 hours, and they did a great job. But it absolutely kills the tournament to cast the finals a week later from replays.
I'm pretty sure that one's on MLG, not Blizzard. ESL, after all, had many different streams going on besides the official stream with Kaelaris. MLG also has a rule that forbids players from discussing the results of their matches. Sounds to me like MLG intended to milk the qualifier for broadcast-content for many more days by shutting out community casters and trying to keep the results hidden.
No it was blizzard. WCS EU had a bunch of different casters because nothing had been set yet, but then blizzard cracked down on the content providers saying it could only be broadcasted through official WCS channels. So basically eliminating anyone else from doing it.
The only thing MLG could have done was to hire another set of a casters on staff and provide a seperate official stream.
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote: I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.
And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.
I like how people think there has to be a fee when in reality if you do it GSL style requiring a certain amount of points and league (say master league with 1k points) and nobody below can join. Would solve a lot of the issues other then the hacker or hyun trying to play.
Idk how TB can say a fee of 18$ should have happened. If there HAD to be a fee which would still be stupid 5$ is what it should be max considering this tournament has NO prize pool and the prize pool for WCS was already provided by blizzard it's just stupid that they even thought about doing a 18$ fee.
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote: I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.
And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.
I like how people think there has to be a fee when in reality if you do it GSL style requiring a certain amount of points and league (say master league with 1k points) and nobody below can join. Would solve a lot of the issues other then the hacker or hyun trying to play.
Idk how TB can say a fee of 18$ should have happened. If there HAD to be a fee which would still be stupid 5$ is what it should be max considering this tournament has NO prize pool and the prize pool for WCS was already provided by blizzard it's just stupid that they even thought about doing a 18$ fee.
But, Mike Morhaime assured me that the foreigner skill level would be increased because we would be practicing against them. O, that's right, they still play on the Korean server and only have accounts on NA for stuff like this (might not be high enough level for the requirement).
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote: I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.
And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.
I like how people think there has to be a fee when in reality if you do it GSL style requiring a certain amount of points and league (say master league with 1k points) and nobody below can join. Would solve a lot of the issues other then the hacker or hyun trying to play.
Idk how TB can say a fee of 18$ should have happened. If there HAD to be a fee which would still be stupid 5$ is what it should be max considering this tournament has NO prize pool and the prize pool for WCS was already provided by blizzard it's just stupid that they even thought about doing a 18$ fee.
But, Mike Morhaime assured me that the foreigner skill level would be increased because we would be practicing against them. O, that's right, they still play on the Korean server and only have accounts on NA for stuff like this (might not be high enough level for the requirement).
It has.... Chinese pro's are better then Muricans and they are playing on NA ladder. Same counts for alot of koreans and europeans. Thx to blizzard, Idra is not a topzerg in NA anymore. So, yes, blizzard was right. Thx to wcs foreingers are playing on NA ladder increasing the skill on NA.
ezpz.. Murica has never gone to war with a techdisadvantage.. so i'd say you take quadruple upgrades early. Those topforeigners u speak off will crumble. MURICA!!!!
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote: I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.
And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.
commm would have been a normal sign up place then why not make the top wcs 2012 sign up free and rest pay ... would be way more logical
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work.
* Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
It's amazing. I couldn't stop watching and getting angry at how awful it was
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
It's an unneccessary strain on many players. Also, wiring 18 bucks from China to the US probably costs the same ammount and takes several days to arrive. If MLG uses other payment methods it's also very possible that those can cause further complications for the players. There is absolutely no reason for MLG to add an additional obstacle for players considering that there are simpler and more efficient ways (merit based system, bigger qualifiers, more qualifiers)
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote: I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.
And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.
I like how people think there has to be a fee when in reality if you do it GSL style requiring a certain amount of points and league (say master league with 1k points) and nobody below can join. Would solve a lot of the issues other then the hacker or hyun trying to play.
Idk how TB can say a fee of 18$ should have happened. If there HAD to be a fee which would still be stupid 5$ is what it should be max considering this tournament has NO prize pool and the prize pool for WCS was already provided by blizzard it's just stupid that they even thought about doing a 18$ fee.
Yep, that's pretty much how proffessionals do it. If you are following the GSL example, do it. Don't go sideways to be cheaper and then complain about it when you obviously didn't do it.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
It does not stop all, but quite a few. If I was still playing the game it would have stopped me. I would play in a qualifier (EU qualifier) if I had the time because anybody can play and it is fun, not because I wan't to qualify. But 18 dollars is too much to play one or two games in total.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
It does if you give seeds to good players. This way the people will pay 18 dollars to play against a diamond or a master (which is a total rip off), and it wont be for a couple of rounds till they even get to the pros. Pros would then face off agaisnt these "paid" players and tear them a new hole (or on the off chance they lose, good for the paid players because they can now be considered a rising star!)
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
Research are you more or less likely to play in a tournament that you have no chance of winning if you have to play $20 as opposed to free.
Answer: Less Likely.
Obviously some players are going to play regardless, however if you can't see that having an entry fee would reduce the amount of non serious entrants on your own there is no way any of us are going to be explain it to you. It's not possible to explain things to people who ignore logic.
But there are still better systems. You are just choosing the model that puts the heavier burden in the players, are is not the most accurate at dragging the quality players for the qualifyers, and that also means players who are quite decent, but probably wouldn't qualify, and those are the ones that sometimes make upsets. I am pretty sure more people can pay 18 dollars than can say they are masters 1k. Merits > money.
There were plenty of options to reduce entrants. The qualifiers were supposed to be open so having a point minimum took away from that, and obviously having an entry fee also did in Blizzard's eyes. The amount of entrants is less MLGs fault and more on blizzard, as MLG originally had a way to minimize that amount of entrants, but Blizzard told them to make it free.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
It does not stop all, but quite a few. If I was still playing the game it would have stopped me. I would play in a qualifier (EU qualifier) if I had the time because anybody can play and it is fun, not because I wan't to qualify. But 18 dollars is too much to play one or two games in total.
But there are still better systems. You are just choosing the model that puts the heavier burden in the players, are is not the most accurate at dragging the quality players for the qualifyers, and that also means players who are quite decent, but probably wouldn't qualify, and those are the ones that sometimes make upsets. I am pretty sure more people can pay 18 dollars than can say they are masters 1k. Merits > money.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
Research are you more or less likely to play in a tournament that you have no chance of winning if you have to play $20 as opposed to free.
Answer: Less Likely.
Obviously some players are going to play regardless, however if you can't see that having an entry fee would reduce the amount of non serious entrants on your own there is no way any of us are going to be explain it to you. It's not possible to explain things to people who ignore logic.
Believe it or not, it might not be that simple. If it was free, I would never sign up because I have no business playing and so I am disincentived by moral obligation knowing that I shouldn't take a spot away from a legitimate player. However, add in a fee and suddenly I can feel that I deserve to be there because I paid for my spot. In that case, it becomes an issue of setting the fee properly. Setting a $1 fee will probably net you more players than if it was free, but at $18 that probably isn't the case (probably, I don't actually know).
I fully concur with the theme of this post: mistakes were made. Given this is the internet, people feel entitled to free content, so no matter how awesome something is, people will whine and cry. This is not one of those cases. This is a clear misrepresentation on talent.
On another note, Drunken Boi beats Miya. Blizzard. Wat.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
It does if you give seeds to good players. This way the people will pay 18 dollars to play against a diamond or a master (which is a total rip off), and it wont be for a couple of rounds till they even get to the pros. Pros would then face off agaisnt these "paid" players and tear them a new hole (or on the off chance they lose, good for the paid players because they can now be considered a rising star!)
My point is that in the NA-region there are certainly 512 morons (below masters) like me that are willing to pay $18 to have a chance to compete against pro's and can say that they participated in the gsl-qualifier. YOLO!
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
Research are you more or less likely to play in a tournament that you have no chance of winning if you have to play $20 as opposed to free.
Answer: Less Likely.
Obviously some players are going to play regardless, however if you can't see that having an entry fee would reduce the amount of non serious entrants on your own there is no way any of us are going to be explain it to you. It's not possible to explain things to people who ignore logic.
Believe it or not, it might not be that simple. If it was free, I would never sign up because I have no business playing and so I am disincentived by moral obligation knowing that I shouldn't take a spot away from a legitimate player. However, add in a fee and suddenly I can feel that I deserve to be there because I paid for my spot. In that case, it becomes an issue of setting the fee properly. Setting a $1 fee will probably net you more players than if it was free, but at $18 that probably isn't the case (probably, I don't actually know).
I can't guarantee this, but any sort of monetary commitment is much more likely to decrease participation than increase it, a $1 event will have less people than a free one.
There is a reason there are no daily tournaments with a small fee associated with them, and it isn't too much participation,
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
Sincerely,
Sundance DiGiovanni CEO Major League Gaming
So we get an apology, the bracket information that was already known was released, and there were no comments about the Chinese players. Absolutely fantastic, MLG.
That is so bad, not to mention the fact that despite the amount of people tuning in, the production value was as low as ESL's. If MLG was really caught off guard by blizzard's schedule, they should have asked for help. I mean, growth of E-sports BEFORE profit and crushing competition , right?
They should almost redo the entire thing given how it went.
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
Sincerely,
Sundance DiGiovanni CEO Major League Gaming
So we get an apology, the bracket information that was already known was released, and there were no comments about the Chinese players. Absolutely fantastic, MLG.
What a load of crap. They don't even know what people are upset about.
It's nice they tried to make it "spoiler free". Because i totally check the brackets and liquipedia when i want to see VODs. All the time + Show Spoiler +
yes, sarcasm
. Well good they realized it's a mistake, even if they do it backwards.
There are not going to be any words on the chinese players i assume. Now people is going to mail them throwing money at them thanks to TB youtube video as the thing is going on reddit.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
Research are you more or less likely to play in a tournament that you have no chance of winning if you have to play $20 as opposed to free.
Answer: Less Likely.
Obviously some players are going to play regardless, however if you can't see that having an entry fee would reduce the amount of non serious entrants on your own there is no way any of us are going to be explain it to you. It's not possible to explain things to people who ignore logic.
Believe it or not, it might not be that simple. If it was free, I would never sign up because I have no business playing and so I am disincentived by moral obligation knowing that I shouldn't take a spot away from a legitimate player. However, add in a fee and suddenly I can feel that I deserve to be there because I paid for my spot. In that case, it becomes an issue of setting the fee properly. Setting a $1 fee will probably net you more players than if it was free, but at $18 that probably isn't the case (probably, I don't actually know).
I can't guarantee this, but any sort of monetary commitment is much more likely to decrease participation than increase it, a $1 event will have less people than a free one.
There is a reason there are no daily tournaments with a small fee associated with them, and it isn't too much participation,
They could also just instead give priority to respectable gaming teams or notable players. Via some kind of licensing system or something. Like have regular tournaments throughout the year who's pay out is a license to compete or get preferential treatment in larger tournaments. That tournament could be free to enter, while any open spots in major tournaments that are not filled for whatever reason could be sold to players without a license for like $50 dollars or something. Hell, you could organize all those dailies organizations to run the licensing tournaments with them reporting to Blizzard or some other eSports Association who would register the winners. Major tournaments focus on the big shows instead.
I did not really get why Comm coudnt play with his own account, was it because he took too long to register? BTW, that MLG apology doesnt really solve anything, lots of players still got screwed over
I hope the tournament admin responsible for most of those issues would be in charge of this email. And have to replay to each mail without using ctrl+c ctrl+v...
"demands to enter WCS was higher than anticipated", I mean did you really not see that Ro2048 bracket in EU just the weekend before?!?!?! And decisions to DQ a legitimate bracket finalist is mysteriously omitted?
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
Research are you more or less likely to play in a tournament that you have no chance of winning if you have to play $20 as opposed to free.
Answer: Less Likely.
Obviously some players are going to play regardless, however if you can't see that having an entry fee would reduce the amount of non serious entrants on your own there is no way any of us are going to be explain it to you. It's not possible to explain things to people who ignore logic.
Believe it or not, it might not be that simple. If it was free, I would never sign up because I have no business playing and so I am disincentived by moral obligation knowing that I shouldn't take a spot away from a legitimate player. However, add in a fee and suddenly I can feel that I deserve to be there because I paid for my spot. In that case, it becomes an issue of setting the fee properly. Setting a $1 fee will probably net you more players than if it was free, but at $18 that probably isn't the case (probably, I don't actually know).
Anyone who thinks that charging people for a tournament would increase participation or that charging people wouldn't detour casual gamers is just grasping a straws and trying to be difficult.
Odd that only an hour ago (6PM EST ) MLG "published" that the WCS would on tonight at 8pm EST. Maybe, they were considering rerunning the whole event over again.
Its great how I called his statement about the weekend not being perfect an insult towards the community. Not only did he question that but also said they will fix it. If that apology is all to come its not just an insult but a huge fuck you towards us.
Not viewing and supporting MLG as a whole is probably impossible and unfortunately would hurt esport more than watching it (I guess) but I would really wish that we stand up and stand together and show them they are only a business because of us, the community and they seem to not care enough.
I'm just sad there are now rumors NASL might move to Dota2 and leave us stuck with MLG as the only NA SC2 provider. They're bad enough without a monopoly, imagine them having the entire NA scene hostage.
I didn't like the tournament format. Especially that you don't get a second chance to qualify for the Challenger League. Sadly it was all about bracket luck this way.
So, according to Reddit Major has to play his ro32 games on the 29th which would mean MLG wants to cast the ro32 from replays.
Do they ever learn? When were they gonna tell us? And the most important question: WHY? Why don't they get noone wants to see old replays? Hasn't the shitstorm for their qualifiers been big enough? Why post a fn apology if you're gonna do the same shit again anyways?
Does this seem familiar to you Sundance:
Edit: Apparently I was wrong, MLG Adam just posted on Reddit that the games will be casted live. I'm sorry.
On April 23 2013 06:08 Sjokola wrote: Blizzard should do the same with events as they do with their games. Do not release/do it unless you're ready to do so.
Yes like they did with D3... The days of gaming companies releasing decent stuff are over
EPT
) but that's about it. ~_~
. Thanks to the OP for putting together these issues. Do we have any word from Blizzard or the tournament organizers re: this fiasco?![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/q2Jiz9F.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kqkkmaq.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IJ1KykM.jpg)
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JYP, 
hendralisk, 
Badcop, ![[image loading]](http://bbs.neotv.cn/data/attachment/forum/201304/21/044026usjmh8va8kccnaav.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://bbs.neotv.cn/data/attachment/forum/201304/21/044034bwnzvvrb2ajlrinv.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.largeassmovieblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/trash-can-1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://mojosavings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/paper-shredder.jpg)
