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On April 17 2013 23:09 Mirrikh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:03 Plansix wrote:On April 17 2013 22:57 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 22:43 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:39 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 22:33 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:15 LighT. wrote:
As I re-iterate.
This move IS good for the overalll scene.
NA + EU will benefit off of this
100%
I almost guarantee it.
This move however is NOT good for KR
It's an insult.
It's a slap in the face.
Blizzard is belitting the players.
Growth is hindered. Can you please tell your arguments behind that claim? I posted numbers above that tell a different story. If they are wrong, please tell my why. Let's quote some people .@FXOChoya "What's with this prize pool?? My eyes must be messed up." @FXOChoya "Are Korean players and teams not important at all? Who is this league for and why have they made these changes? Do they not..."
.@FXOChoya "...care about the opinions of us players?" @MKPS2 "They're really making us give up..." .@LGIM_NesTea_ "@MKPS2 They only slightly lowered the 2nd place prize...good news right..? haha" @FXOLeenock "What is this...$20k for first place? -_- Why are they changing the prize pool when we're already in the ro32 hahaha" @FXOsupreme "How do they devastate us with every update they make???" @StarTale815 "There is no way. These guys have sponsors, so why are they lowering their prize pool? I thought that they would announce..."
@StarTale815 "...a counter-announcement. I was a fool and I am angry."] @NsHsJjakji "What is this..." .@SC2MVP "Where are we going with this...it's only my opinion, but if they raised the prize pool, they could include that in the...".@SC2MVP "individual leagues, and put a team league in the WCS..." @Startale_Yun "You're taking this joke way too far." .@firebathero "@Engine141 Though they open their mouths, their ears are shut." These quotes come from Coaches. Players. Players who are GSL champions. Casters alike. Do you honestly believe that this is in any shape or form a good thing? I get optimism but what blizzard is doing is retarded. Ok, last try. Is there any argument behind these complaints? When I read all this this morning I was puzzled, because I remembered things being different. So I took some time and looked up, what changed in the price pools. I came to the conclusion, it did not change for worse for KR players. We had some discussions over the day and I added some more research and numbers. Still the conclusion stands, nothing changed for worse. I am not bashing on KR players, but I don't see any reason, but complaining just because things change w/o checking if for better or worse. Neither them nor you brought any argument. And no, "they are the awesome KR pros" is not an argument in my book. Last response before studying. Wish me luck  The argument is simple. Blizzard wants to make EU = NA = KR, for that they want EU and NA growth to happen. They placed a system that does just that. However while placing the system in place by taking away the prestigious title of GSL and OSL and having it only become a feeder for a "Blizzard's hosted tournament", and regulating the # of seeds koreans have to the same of EU/NA players..when the KR sccene is obviously 3-4x more competitive. It's an insult to them as a whole. The 1st place argument is also simple. So they took away the GSL /OSL prestige of a GSL/OSL winner and the pride of being a runner up. Fine. But what they do get in return? A lower prize pool above that and some "points". In reverse: What do the players get out of it? How does this system benefit Korea? It doesnt. Outside of a few extra games casted on OGN but they couldhave been handled differently since blizzard just enticed them with the power of $. The stability as I say again in the KR scene is not stable. There are teams which are on the brink of disbanding. EVen a team like WJS are in the threat of being relegated due to financial trouble. There is no growth. In EU/NA you have additional sponsors. Na'Vi joined in. Western Wolves formed, TB's Axiom. Azubu. Investment from the global companies. In KR there hasnt been a major additional sponsor for months. In BW at the times of rapid growth. You had Hwaseung, Hite, MBCGameHero There's none of that. Because they do not believe sc2 is a game worth investing. How would this change their perspective? Yes, I understand that lower placed players get more $ and that's good. But they took away the prestige and the title, and they dare think the competition in EU or NA is equal to KR? They're forcing their hand for players to move out to different regions but in most cases they cant because of GSTL/SPL obligations. If they wanted to do a WCS format like that. They should have done a team format. It works better. More exposure. Not like this. This is terrible. If the system started out providing more slots for Koreans because their scene was more competitive, when are those slots taken away? How do does Blizzard know when the other scenes have "caught up"? When they take those extra slots away, will the Korean teams just freak out then an say the Blizzard is disrespecting them and ruining Korean SC2 for the sake of the NA and EU scene? Making a system that provided Korea with extra placements slots or more prize money would just lead to this same discussion happening later. Once Blizzard opens that door, its hard to close. So Blizzard should just make everything equal and let the players figure it out on their own. P.S. Stop posting in haiku. Its kinda weird. Like in footbal. England gets 3 slots and 1 in qualifiers for Champions League and Cyprus gets 1 in qualifiers. When is Cyprus gonna get more slots is when EU and NA should get more slots for SC2 WCS finals?
Valid point. Football is way more established(being the most popular sport in the world) and there are a ton of reasons why one region gets more slots. But that does not mean Blizzard needs to go that route. Starting out equal is a good way to start any system and then adjust it from there. Trying to predict every issue generally leads to problems that did not need to be there in the first place. This is all new and we will know more once the first season is over in June.
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this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement.
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On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement.
@ GSL, Gom TV already announced before the whole WCS thing that they will have 1 less GSL for the year 2013.
So it was always supposed to be only 4 GSL's
Maybe GOM couldnt find sponsors to pay as much money as before, so Blizzard stepped in?
Maybe without Blizzard helping ogn, there wouldnt even be an OSL this year, like at all.
Why do people never think about that?
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On April 17 2013 23:28 Quateras wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Maybe GOM couldnt find sponsors to pay as much money as before, so Blizzard stepped in?
then, why there is an sponsor called mangosix?
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On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement.
Did you add in the amount they will automatically get for the season finals? That's a minimum of $25K more per season(all 5 Korean players place in 9th-18th), which is an extra 75K for the year. Or likely more if they place 8th or higher, since it jumps to $7,500 or $10,000 for 3rd-4th. Per season, this adds a lot to the overall totally amount a player can win for getting top 5 in their region.
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On April 17 2013 23:30 xuanzue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:28 Quateras wrote:On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Maybe GOM couldnt find sponsors to pay as much money as before, so Blizzard stepped in? then, why there is an sponsor called mangosix?
I don't know, that studio costs money to rent and run? They have to pay people money to work there?
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On April 17 2013 23:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Did you add in the amount they will automatically get for the season finals?
yeah I did.
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The only hope now is that the tournament organizers will have other leagues which could be WCS tier 1 competitions and have a solid pricepool in order to increase the money in the scene to similar levels to past years.
For korea, i can only hope that GOM gives more to GSTL or they hold more "arenas" or maybe more billizard cup events etc,
Dreamhack and NASL have a great shot at making themselves relevant. 750 points is a large amount and will be significant. I feel NASL have to change their format as most players will not want to participate in 2 leagues running concurrently.
I think this is not the end of annoucements. It is not the amazing league that will boost the entire scene but a solid 1st step. We will have to see the end state in order to pass judgement on how large a success/failure this WCS will be
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On April 17 2013 23:28 Quateras wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. @ GSL, Gom TV already announced before the whole WCS thing that they will have 1 less GSL for the year 2013. So it was always supposed to be only 4 GSL's Maybe GOM couldnt find sponsors to pay as much money as before, so Blizzard stepped in? Maybe without Blizzard helping ogn, there wouldnt even be an OSL this year, like at all. Why do people never think about that?
Blizzard has always been sponsoring GOM since day 1. Get your facts straight.
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On April 17 2013 23:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:30 xuanzue wrote:On April 17 2013 23:28 Quateras wrote:On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Maybe GOM couldnt find sponsors to pay as much money as before, so Blizzard stepped in? then, why there is an sponsor called mangosix? I don't know, that studio costs money to rent and run? They have to pay people money to work there?
last year they had those costs too.
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On April 17 2013 23:35 xuanzue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:33 Plansix wrote:On April 17 2013 23:30 xuanzue wrote:On April 17 2013 23:28 Quateras wrote:On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Maybe GOM couldnt find sponsors to pay as much money as before, so Blizzard stepped in? then, why there is an sponsor called mangosix? I don't know, that studio costs money to rent and run? They have to pay people money to work there? last year they had those costs too.
They do have a new studio now, in central seoul, so it will propably cost a bit more.
Just because they have a title sponsor, does not mean that they pay the exact same amount as a year before that.
(If you have trouble finding a sponsor, the first thing you do is reduce the amount of money that you looked for a sponsor to be paid)
Geokiller:
Blizzard has always been sponsoring GOM since day 1. Get your facts straight.
Of course they have, but things change man.
Who tells you that Blizzard has to pay gom more now for gom to even run, because they get less sponsorships as early on, and sponsors not paying them as much as before.
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On April 17 2013 23:35 xuanzue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:33 Plansix wrote:On April 17 2013 23:30 xuanzue wrote:On April 17 2013 23:28 Quateras wrote:On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Maybe GOM couldnt find sponsors to pay as much money as before, so Blizzard stepped in? then, why there is an sponsor called mangosix? I don't know, that studio costs money to rent and run? They have to pay people money to work there? last year they had those costs too.
Last year the costs were a lot smaller. Gangnam rent > Mokdong rent. Now I'm not saying that they shouldn't have moved, but studio costs is irrelevant to prize pool and the prestigeness of a tournament known as the GSL and OSL.
Is prestigeness a word...? Google says no..
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On April 17 2013 23:33 xuanzue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:32 Plansix wrote:On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Did you add in the amount they will automatically get for the season finals? yeah I did.
I don't think you did. The math doesn't add up. Its $100K per region, per season for all WCS events. The season finals add at minimum $25K for the 5 highest ranked players(assuming they place last). Max is $87.5K per season if they take top 5. Whoever win the season finals will take home bank.
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Easy fix:
give 10 spots to Korea for season finals, 4 to Europe and 2 for NA. Start with that and balance it out based on results.
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On April 17 2013 23:35 xuanzue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:33 Plansix wrote:On April 17 2013 23:30 xuanzue wrote:On April 17 2013 23:28 Quateras wrote:On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Maybe GOM couldnt find sponsors to pay as much money as before, so Blizzard stepped in? then, why there is an sponsor called mangosix? I don't know, that studio costs money to rent and run? They have to pay people money to work there? last year they had those costs too.
Things change, business models change and GOM may be providing support for teams we don't know about. Dumping more money into GSTL or other events. Its not as cut at dry as you make it out to be.
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On April 17 2013 23:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:35 xuanzue wrote:On April 17 2013 23:33 Plansix wrote:On April 17 2013 23:30 xuanzue wrote:On April 17 2013 23:28 Quateras wrote:On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Maybe GOM couldnt find sponsors to pay as much money as before, so Blizzard stepped in? then, why there is an sponsor called mangosix? I don't know, that studio costs money to rent and run? They have to pay people money to work there? last year they had those costs too. Things change, business models change and GOM may be providing support for teams we don't know about. Dumping more money into GSTL or other events. Its not as cut at dry as you make it out to be.
Well they have the World of Tanks. http://www.gomtv.net/event/wotCommingSoon.gom
3 seasons, 300 million won per year. I'm pretty sure they're not taking SC2 winnings and putting it into World of Tanks.
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On April 17 2013 23:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:35 xuanzue wrote:On April 17 2013 23:33 Plansix wrote:On April 17 2013 23:30 xuanzue wrote:On April 17 2013 23:28 Quateras wrote:On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Maybe GOM couldnt find sponsors to pay as much money as before, so Blizzard stepped in? then, why there is an sponsor called mangosix? I don't know, that studio costs money to rent and run? They have to pay people money to work there? last year they had those costs too. Things change, business models change and GOM may be providing support for teams we don't know about. Dumping more money into GSTL or other events. Its not as cut at dry as you make it out to be.
lol, that must be the support that makes happy choya
I can sum the OSL and the wcs kr of last year too.
(161k x 5 + 93 k + 26k) / 12 = 77k each month.
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On April 17 2013 23:33 xuanzue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:32 Plansix wrote:On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Did you add in the amount they will automatically get for the season finals? yeah I did.
No, you did not.
2012
Last year 5 seasons of GSL amounted to $757,000
WCS Korea = $26,000
WCS Asia = $60,000
OSL = $93,000
TOTAL = $936,000
2013
This year, it was one regular season of GSL = $162,000
3 WCS Seasons Code S = $300,000
3 WCS Seasons Code A = $60,000
3 Seasonal Finals = $450,000
TOTAL = $972,000
And this without considering anything else that a large amount of Koreans will be taking a significant chunk from the $600,000 allocated to the European and North American leagues, as well as whatever else GSL/OSL might have in mind, including the increased importance of GSTL (they've doubled the prizepool, if you haven't noticed), and other cups with their sponsor money.
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I think the points distribution is going to lead to a mess. If you're a top player on NA/EU point farm will be significantly easier than on KR, leading to a finals where KR is underrepresented.
If you win a GSL once, go to one final (end top 4), and get another 2 ro8 finishes in the GSL you end up with 4k points. This would be a major accomplishment in the KR scene. On the other hand, lets say you're a KR NA pro that finishes top 4 consistently, but you get smashed in the finals every single time (finishing either in the 9-16 range), you end up with around the same amount.
Blizzard should remove the points awarded for the 13-16th place in the season finals, they already get money for showing up, no need to give free points too. Next to that, maybe rewarding 1-4 in the season finals a little more would be better also.
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On April 17 2013 23:55 mikkmagro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 23:33 xuanzue wrote:On April 17 2013 23:32 Plansix wrote:On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.
last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.
so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement. Did you add in the amount they will automatically get for the season finals? yeah I did. No, you did not. 2012Last year 5 seasons of GSL amounted to $757,000 WCS Korea = $26,000 WCS Asia = $60,000 OSL = $93,000 TOTAL = $936,0002013This year, it was one regular season of GSL = $162,000 3 WCS Seasons Code S = $300,000 3 WCS Seasons Code A = $60,000 3 Seasonal Finals = $450,000 TOTAL = $972,000And this without considering anything else that a large amount of Koreans will be taking a significant chunk from the $600,000 allocated to the European and North American leagues, as well as whatever else GSL/OSL might have in mind, including the increased importance of GSTL (they've doubled the prizepool, if you haven't noticed), and other cups with their sponsor money.
Well you can't add in the entire season finals to Korea, because the other two regions will have players in the other slots. Those may be Korean players, they money is not going to go to the players competing the Korea. The rest of the math looks fine.
People are freaking out over nothing. The players who win the Season finals will make bank. The players that win the regional finals will also make reasonable money.
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EPT
