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WCS 2013 Format, Players, Prizes and Point Details - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
474 CommentsPost a Reply
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Branman
Profile Joined March 2013
United States203 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-17 15:08:42
April 17 2013 15:07 GMT
#381
If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.

EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.
mikkmagro
Profile Joined April 2011
Malta1513 Posts
April 17 2013 15:14 GMT
#382
On April 18 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 23:55 mikkmagro wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:33 xuanzue wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:32 Plansix wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.

last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.

so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement.


Did you add in the amount they will automatically get for the season finals?


yeah I did.

No, you did not.

2012
Last year 5 seasons of GSL amounted to $757,000
WCS Korea = $26,000
WCS Asia = $60,000
OSL = $93,000
TOTAL = $936,000

2013
This year, it was one regular season of GSL = $162,000
3 WCS Seasons Code S = $300,000
3 WCS Seasons Code A = $60,000
3 Seasonal Finals = $450,000
TOTAL = $972,000

And this without considering anything else that a large amount of Koreans will be taking a significant chunk from the $600,000 allocated to the European and North American leagues, as well as whatever else GSL/OSL might have in mind, including the increased importance of GSTL (they've doubled the prizepool, if you haven't noticed), and other cups with their sponsor money.



Well you can't add in the entire season finals to Korea, because the other two regions will have players in the other slots. Those may be Korean players, they money is not going to go to the players competing the Korea. The rest of the math looks fine.

People are freaking out over nothing. The players who win the Season finals will make bank. The players that win the regional finals will also make reasonable money.


They will still be competing FROM Korea from the most part, since unfortunately only a couple of weekends will be offline. You cannot deny that even though Blizzard reduced the number of events in Korea, they made up for it by giving the Korean players a lot of flexibility, particularly the sizable lot employed by foreign teams, and if it weren't for foreign teams and events employing and inviting over Koreans, Korean SC2 would probably be in a significantly worse position now. People like Choya who are whining want the cake, and they want to eat it too. Appreciate the fact that upon hearing complaints, Blizzard decided to invest a lot more in Code A, and to evenly distribute the prizes in the regional league to the ultimate benefit of the many pro gamers in Korea. Why is $20k not sufficient as a first place? It might not be $45k as it was before, but this way, it is much more constructive, and anyway, the winners have a very good chance of multiplying that figure by three or four times in the seasonal finals.
mousesports, Team Acer, Fnatic!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 17 2013 15:17 GMT
#383
On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote:
If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.

EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.


I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 17 2013 15:20 GMT
#384
On April 18 2013 00:14 mikkmagro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:55 mikkmagro wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:33 xuanzue wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:32 Plansix wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.

last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.

so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement.


Did you add in the amount they will automatically get for the season finals?


yeah I did.

No, you did not.

2012
Last year 5 seasons of GSL amounted to $757,000
WCS Korea = $26,000
WCS Asia = $60,000
OSL = $93,000
TOTAL = $936,000

2013
This year, it was one regular season of GSL = $162,000
3 WCS Seasons Code S = $300,000
3 WCS Seasons Code A = $60,000
3 Seasonal Finals = $450,000
TOTAL = $972,000

And this without considering anything else that a large amount of Koreans will be taking a significant chunk from the $600,000 allocated to the European and North American leagues, as well as whatever else GSL/OSL might have in mind, including the increased importance of GSTL (they've doubled the prizepool, if you haven't noticed), and other cups with their sponsor money.



Well you can't add in the entire season finals to Korea, because the other two regions will have players in the other slots. Those may be Korean players, they money is not going to go to the players competing the Korea. The rest of the math looks fine.

People are freaking out over nothing. The players who win the Season finals will make bank. The players that win the regional finals will also make reasonable money.


They will still be competing FROM Korea from the most part, since unfortunately only a couple of weekends will be offline. You cannot deny that even though Blizzard reduced the number of events in Korea, they made up for it by giving the Korean players a lot of flexibility, particularly the sizable lot employed by foreign teams, and if it weren't for foreign teams and events employing and inviting over Koreans, Korean SC2 would probably be in a significantly worse position now. People like Choya who are whining want the cake, and they want to eat it too. Appreciate the fact that upon hearing complaints, Blizzard decided to invest a lot more in Code A, and to evenly distribute the prizes in the regional league to the ultimate benefit of the many pro gamers in Korea. Why is $20k not sufficient as a first place? It might not be $45k as it was before, but this way, it is much more constructive, and anyway, the winners have a very good chance of multiplying that figure by three or four times in the seasonal finals.


GOM cut the number of events on own while they worked with Blizzard to get the GSL on OGN. GOM did this because it was beneficial to them. I don't really blame Blizzard for that in any way. With the release of HotS and last years theme of way to much SC2, I think GOM would always have thrown less events this year.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Branman
Profile Joined March 2013
United States203 Posts
April 17 2013 15:20 GMT
#385
On April 18 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote:
If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.

EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.


I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."


I'd say that's a bad assumption because these are professional players and coaches. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually took the time to research the announcements and tournament structure.
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
April 17 2013 15:23 GMT
#386
:DDD
StarCraft II World Championship Series 2013 Season 1 Qualifier #4 (Go4SC2 #284)

RO2048 :DDD
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
April 17 2013 15:30 GMT
#387
On April 18 2013 00:23 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
:DDD
StarCraft II World Championship Series 2013 Season 1 Qualifier #4 (Go4SC2 #284)

RO2048 :DDD


watch the NA qualifier barely make 128, becauseits gonna cost 18$ per person per qualifier... Should just let esl run the NA qualifier instead of money hungry mlg!!
savior did nothing wrong
Elairec
Profile Joined June 2011
United States410 Posts
April 17 2013 15:34 GMT
#388
They took the entry fee away a while ago.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 17 2013 15:34 GMT
#389
On April 18 2013 00:30 EleanorRIgby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 00:23 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
:DDD
StarCraft II World Championship Series 2013 Season 1 Qualifier #4 (Go4SC2 #284)

RO2048 :DDD


watch the NA qualifier barely make 128, becauseits gonna cost 18$ per person per qualifier... Should just let esl run the NA qualifier instead of money hungry mlg!!

They aren't charging any more. That lasted less than 24 hours.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
bGr.MetHiX
Profile Joined February 2011
Bulgaria511 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-17 15:36:07
April 17 2013 15:35 GMT
#390
whatever , what i said is irrelevant
Top50 GM EU Protoss from Bulgaria. Streaming with commentary : www.twitch.tv/hwbgmethix
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 17 2013 15:43 GMT
#391
On April 18 2013 00:20 Branman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:
On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote:
If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.

EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.


I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."


I'd say that's a bad assumption because these are professional players and coaches. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually took the time to research the announcements and tournament structure.


I don't really give complaining on the internet the benefit of the doubt. Whining to your followers on twitter is pretty unprofessional in general and I don't really take a lot of the complaints seriously. A lot of these folks are very young and do dumb stuff in interviews. Look at Teaja's interview where he stated he hated Blizzard. Kennigit was talking openly talking about how that was bad PR that Liquid shouldn't have on twitter.

There is the potential for the best player in the GSL to win a lot of money per season, even if the GSL finals are not where that happens. And even if they don't win everything they still take home a large amount of money. The complaining seems silly or based on first glance.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Killmouse
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria5700 Posts
April 17 2013 15:47 GMT
#392
On April 17 2013 23:48 geokilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 23:42 Plansix wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:35 xuanzue wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:33 Plansix wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:30 xuanzue wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:28 Quateras wrote:
On April 17 2013 23:24 xuanzue wrote:
this year in korea (100k + 25k) x 3 / 9 months = 42 k every month in tournaments.

last year in korean gsl. 161 k x 5 / 12 = 67 k every month. and the number is bigger if you add osl and wcs kr.

so. THERE ARE LESS MONEY THIS YEAR. I don't see how can be this an improvement.

Maybe GOM couldnt find sponsors to pay as much money as before, so Blizzard stepped in?


then, why there is an sponsor called mangosix?


I don't know, that studio costs money to rent and run? They have to pay people money to work there?


last year they had those costs too.


Things change, business models change and GOM may be providing support for teams we don't know about. Dumping more money into GSTL or other events. Its not as cut at dry as you make it out to be.

Well they have the World of Tanks. http://www.gomtv.net/event/wotCommingSoon.gom

3 seasons, 300 million won per year. I'm pretty sure they're not taking SC2 winnings and putting it into World of Tanks.


WoT developer host the tournament and provides the pricemoney, , gom only cast as far i know
yo
blackone
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1314 Posts
April 17 2013 15:47 GMT
#393
On April 18 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:

People are freaking out over nothing. The players who win the Season finals will make bank. The players that win the regional finals will also make reasonable money.

There are lots of people, like me, who love the GSL and are bummed that their favorite tournament has less events per year now, with way less prize money each. It used to be the greatest tournament in the world, and now it's not much more than a WCS qualifier, whereas all other qualifiers are added to their regions tournaments without replacing them. It's not the end of the world but it's certainly not "nothing".
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-17 15:50:24
April 17 2013 15:48 GMT
#394
Why are the majority of the koreans angry about the code S prize pool? Only first place got a bit cut, 2nd got a small cut. Everybody else makes more money. A very small portion of players actually win or take second. Players like MKP are making more money, not less.

edit - 1st place being cut in more than half I agree is pretty ridiculous. But the people complaining are the people that are going to be making more money (non GSL winners)
Refer to my post.
Whoranzone
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany330 Posts
April 17 2013 15:51 GMT
#395
On April 18 2013 00:30 EleanorRIgby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 00:23 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
:DDD
StarCraft II World Championship Series 2013 Season 1 Qualifier #4 (Go4SC2 #284)

RO2048 :DDD


watch the NA qualifier barely make 128, becauseits gonna cost 18$ per person per qualifier... Should just let esl run the NA qualifier instead of money hungry mlg!!

Yeah better have those f5 spam contests to get in.
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
April 17 2013 15:53 GMT
#396
On April 18 2013 00:43 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 00:20 Branman wrote:
On April 18 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:
On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote:
If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.

EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.


I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."


I'd say that's a bad assumption because these are professional players and coaches. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually took the time to research the announcements and tournament structure.


I don't really give complaining on the internet the benefit of the doubt. Whining to your followers on twitter is pretty unprofessional in general and I don't really take a lot of the complaints seriously. A lot of these folks are very young and do dumb stuff in interviews. Look at Teaja's interview where he stated he hated Blizzard. Kennigit was talking openly talking about how that was bad PR that Liquid shouldn't have on twitter.

There is the potential for the best player in the GSL to win a lot of money per season, even if the GSL finals are not where that happens. And even if they don't win everything they still take home a large amount of money. The complaining seems silly or based on first glance.

What do you not get about this? Probability of two events happening together is always less than one event happening, ergo probability of winning GSL and season finals is less than probability of winning GSL alone, which means that the chances of getting 50k are now lower than they were before, even if you're a championship contender. What is so hard to understand about this? This is 100% bad news for Koreans interested in prize money. Period.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 17 2013 15:54 GMT
#397
On April 18 2013 00:47 blackone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:

People are freaking out over nothing. The players who win the Season finals will make bank. The players that win the regional finals will also make reasonable money.

There are lots of people, like me, who love the GSL and are bummed that their favorite tournament has less events per year now, with way less prize money each. It used to be the greatest tournament in the world, and now it's not much more than a WCS qualifier, whereas all other qualifiers are added to their regions tournaments without replacing them. It's not the end of the world but it's certainly not "nothing".


I guess that is a point of view, but I rarely care how much people win at the end of these events. The GSL isn't changing and is the same when I watch it every morning its on. The only thing that is different is that I know the top 5 players are going to compete in another event later this summer.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
scsnow
Profile Joined April 2010
Slovenia515 Posts
April 17 2013 15:54 GMT
#398
They should just add WCS Korea to GSL...
Branman
Profile Joined March 2013
United States203 Posts
April 17 2013 16:04 GMT
#399
On April 18 2013 00:53 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 00:43 Plansix wrote:
On April 18 2013 00:20 Branman wrote:
On April 18 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:
On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote:
If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.

EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.


I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."


I'd say that's a bad assumption because these are professional players and coaches. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually took the time to research the announcements and tournament structure.


I don't really give complaining on the internet the benefit of the doubt. Whining to your followers on twitter is pretty unprofessional in general and I don't really take a lot of the complaints seriously. A lot of these folks are very young and do dumb stuff in interviews. Look at Teaja's interview where he stated he hated Blizzard. Kennigit was talking openly talking about how that was bad PR that Liquid shouldn't have on twitter.

There is the potential for the best player in the GSL to win a lot of money per season, even if the GSL finals are not where that happens. And even if they don't win everything they still take home a large amount of money. The complaining seems silly or based on first glance.

What do you not get about this? Probability of two events happening together is always less than one event happening, ergo probability of winning GSL and season finals is less than probability of winning GSL alone, which means that the chances of getting 50k are now lower than they were before, even if you're a championship contender. What is so hard to understand about this? This is 100% bad news for Koreans interested in prize money. Period.


It's also a high probability of placing highly in a tournament with 5 Koreans, 5 Americans, and 5 Europeans assuming that Koreans are actually better than the Americans and Europeans. The GSL champion might not win the whole tournament, but he is almost guaranteed to take down an extra $7,500 and will likely win more. Yes, this is a probabilistic exercise, but I'm sure that the expected value of the GSL champion's winnings are approximately equal to what it was before.
Kergy
Profile Joined December 2010
Peru2011 Posts
April 17 2013 16:07 GMT
#400
so a player that wins the NA gsl gets the same ammount of money as one that wins the real one

how is this fair, haha
Everyday Girl's Day~!
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