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On April 17 2013 22:33 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 22:15 LighT. wrote:
As I re-iterate.
This move IS good for the overalll scene.
NA + EU will benefit off of this
100%
I almost guarantee it.
This move however is NOT good for KR
It's an insult.
It's a slap in the face.
Blizzard is belitting the players.
Growth is hindered. Can you please tell your arguments behind that claim? I posted numbers above that tell a different story. If they are wrong, please tell my why.
Let's quote some people
.@FXOChoya "What's with this prize pool?? My eyes must be messed up."
@FXOChoya "Are Korean players and teams not important at all? Who is this league for and why have they made these changes? Do they not..."
.@FXOChoya "...care about the opinions of us players?"
@MKPS2 "They're really making us give up..."
.@LGIM_NesTea_ "@MKPS2 They only slightly lowered the 2nd place prize...good news right..? haha"
@FXOLeenock "What is this...$20k for first place? -_- Why are they changing the prize pool when we're already in the ro32 hahaha"
@FXOsupreme "How do they devastate us with every update they make???"
@StarTale815 "There is no way. These guys have sponsors, so why are they lowering their prize pool? I thought that they would announce..."
@StarTale815 "...a counter-announcement. I was a fool and I am angry."]
@NsHsJjakji "What is this..."
.@SC2MVP "Where are we going with this...it's only my opinion, but if they raised the prize pool, they could include that in the...".@SC2MVP "individual leagues, and put a team league in the WCS..."
@Startale_Yun "You're taking this joke way too far."
.@firebathero "@Engine141 Though they open their mouths, their ears are shut."
These quotes come from
Coaches. Players. Players who are GSL champions. Casters alike.
Do you honestly believe that this is in any shape or form a good thing?
I get optimism but what blizzard is doing is retarded.
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On April 17 2013 17:18 grs wrote:Numbers from http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_1 vs. Blizzard's announcement. Champion $46,827 vs. $20,000 = - $26,827 Runner-up $18,731 vs. $12,000 = - $6,731 Semifinalists $4,683 vs. $7,000 = + $2,317 x 2 Ro8 $2,810 vs. $3,500 = + $690 x 4 Ro16 $1,873 vs. $2,000 = + $127 x 8 Ro32 $1,405 vs. $1,500 = + $95 x 16 Total $123,624 vs. $100,000 = - $23,000 So all together less for 1st and 2nd and more for everyone else. Less in total, but the top players get additional money from the season and global finals. I still don't get the issue. Edit: I especially don't get FXOChoya's tweet: .@FXOChoya "WCS NA=EU=KR all have the same prize pool while our GSL has essentially dropped to the class of other tournaments. We either have to play outside of our country or become the best in the country. You are making a joke out of us." Players who are not the best get more, or not. What am I missing here?
and compare the prize of the code A, and the number of tournaments.
and I still don't understand, what mangosix's money does? where goes its sponsorship?
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On April 17 2013 22:39 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 22:33 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:15 LighT. wrote:
As I re-iterate.
This move IS good for the overalll scene.
NA + EU will benefit off of this
100%
I almost guarantee it.
This move however is NOT good for KR
It's an insult.
It's a slap in the face.
Blizzard is belitting the players.
Growth is hindered. Can you please tell your arguments behind that claim? I posted numbers above that tell a different story. If they are wrong, please tell my why. Let's quote some people Show nested quote +@FXOChoya "Are Korean players and teams not important at all? Who is this league for and why have they made these changes? Do they not..."
.@FXOChoya "...care about the opinions of us players?" Show nested quote +.@LGIM_NesTea_ "@MKPS2 They only slightly lowered the 2nd place prize...good news right..? haha" Show nested quote +@FXOLeenock "What is this...$20k for first place? -_- Why are they changing the prize pool when we're already in the ro32 hahaha" Show nested quote +@StarTale815 "There is no way. These guys have sponsors, so why are they lowering their prize pool? I thought that they would announce..."
@StarTale815 "...a counter-announcement. I was a fool and I am angry."] Show nested quote +.@SC2MVP "Where are we going with this...it's only my opinion, but if they raised the prize pool, they could include that in the...".@SC2MVP "individual leagues, and put a team league in the WCS..." Show nested quote +.@firebathero "@Engine141 Though they open their mouths, their ears are shut." These quotes come from Coaches. Players. Players who are GSL champions. Casters alike. Do you honestly believe that this is in any shape or form a good thing? I get optimism but what blizzard is doing is retarded.
Ok, last try. Is there any argument behind these complaints? When I read all this this morning I was puzzled, because I remembered things being different. So I took some time and looked up, what changed in the price pools. I came to the conclusion, it did not change for worse for KR players. We had some discussions over the day and I added some more research and numbers. Still the conclusion stands, nothing changed for worse. I am not bashing on KR players, but I don't see any reason, but complaining just because things change w/o checking if for better or worse.
Neither them nor you brought any argument. And no, "they are the awesome KR pros" is not an argument in my book.
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Why would they do this to OSL / GSL? plain stupid to dumb down the most competitive tournaments in the world.
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On April 17 2013 22:39 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 22:33 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:15 LighT. wrote:
As I re-iterate.
This move IS good for the overalll scene.
NA + EU will benefit off of this
100%
I almost guarantee it.
This move however is NOT good for KR
It's an insult.
It's a slap in the face.
Blizzard is belitting the players.
Growth is hindered. Can you please tell your arguments behind that claim? I posted numbers above that tell a different story. If they are wrong, please tell my why. Let's quote some people Show nested quote +@FXOChoya "Are Korean players and teams not important at all? Who is this league for and why have they made these changes? Do they not..."
.@FXOChoya "...care about the opinions of us players?" Show nested quote +.@LGIM_NesTea_ "@MKPS2 They only slightly lowered the 2nd place prize...good news right..? haha" Show nested quote +@FXOLeenock "What is this...$20k for first place? -_- Why are they changing the prize pool when we're already in the ro32 hahaha" Show nested quote +@StarTale815 "There is no way. These guys have sponsors, so why are they lowering their prize pool? I thought that they would announce..."
@StarTale815 "...a counter-announcement. I was a fool and I am angry."] Show nested quote +.@SC2MVP "Where are we going with this...it's only my opinion, but if they raised the prize pool, they could include that in the...".@SC2MVP "individual leagues, and put a team league in the WCS..." Show nested quote +.@firebathero "@Engine141 Though they open their mouths, their ears are shut." These quotes come from Coaches. Players. Players who are GSL champions. Casters alike. Do you honestly believe that this is in any shape or form a good thing? I get optimism but what blizzard is doing is retarded.
It is a bad idea to listen to people whine in the internet and taking it as fact or a basis of how good or bad something is. I am sure they aren't adding in the extra $5,000 they get if they somehow come in 18th in the world finals(which is unlikely, since they won Korea). Even if they take second place for the season, it is still 40K. Or 60K if they take the finals for both.
And the world wide exposure for the seasons will be huge for the teams. Prize money is not the center of the world and people tweeting their first impressions does not prove anything.
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On April 17 2013 22:34 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 22:30 govie wrote:On April 17 2013 22:15 LighT. wrote:
This move however is NOT good for KR
It's an insult.
It's a slap in the face.
Blizzard is belitting the players.
Growth is hindered. I dont see how pumping 1.6kk in a esport is a slap in the face, an insult, or seen as belitting players.. The korean players are the ones that will benefit most from that 1.6kk anyway... I do not see growth hindered at all. Only thing that has changed for koreanplayers is that topkoreanplayers get more international exposure which is good for the sponsors, the players and the teams... As i see it WCS is a blessing for the korean scene. Ok..so then.. Why are the likes of.. The entire MVP team Leenock Choya Startale_Zero Nestea Firebat hero Woongjin Stars coach complaining about it?? Because they felt freakin insulted thats why. And everything is taken away from them. They're belitting the players. Not all the players. Just the KR ones. They want the NA scene = EU scene = KR scene. To get that. theyre forcing a move that lowers the KR scene to stoop to NA/EU's level The korean players are not benefitting from this system at all.
Yes, they can complain about everything they dont like. But, they are not businessmen. If u want to grow a scene and the level of play u simply need money, money from sponsors, i.e :
Giving redbull international exposure (life/startale), will increase funds for startale, which they can use to develop the kr scene further.. International exposure on events like this is worth alot more then KR exposure only.
2nd, the proplayers of korea will benefit the most from the 1.6kk prizepool.
So in general :
1. Teams benefit as they get more funds thx to sponsorships;
2. KR proplayers benefit because they will get more prizemoney and higher salaries when they post results internationally. Because they are worth more in sponsorexposure;
3. GOM has secured there future for being the biggest 1v1 tournament in korea in the sc2 scene.
The same counts for the NA/EU scene, players, teams and leagues.
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Quoting more from Choya
@FXOChoya "Winning isn't easy. Are they handing out that kind of prize pool because they think one can win the Global finals if he wins.....the Korea finals too? hahahahahahaha"
"In my opinion, it seems they are trying to expand the scene but it seems they are doing the opposite. Are they telling....hundreds and hundreds of gamers to win? Every single one of them?"
"They seem to be trying to equalize Korea with everywhere else hahahahaha You think NA and EU are the same as KR? I'm all for..."...equality but this is just ridiculous and I cannot comprehend these changes."
"I kept trusting that they would persuade us players by raising the prize pool but we wake up to this news? I can't even."
"I don't know if my team is the only one being affected but this is just too much. Every announcement is disappointing."
"So we have to go through qualifiers and barely get to the Premier League, but now there's another tourney above that we
"...to win to be considered a winner? I can't even."
@FXOChoya "@StarTale815 hahahahaha I wake up to everyone freaking out, if this continues they must just delete SC2 ahahahahahaha"
"WCS NA=EU=KR all have the same prize pool while our GSL has essentially dropped to the class of other tournaments. We either...""have to play outside of our country or become the best in the country. You are making a joke out of us."
There you have it. While my argument seems pessimistic to most, most of the players feel the same way as I do.
I have an exam to write in 2 hours and then another tomorrow so I wont be able to respond but I'll be sure to.
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On April 17 2013 22:47 LighT. wrote:Quoting more from Choya Show nested quote +@FXOChoya "Winning isn't easy. Are they handing out that kind of prize pool because they think one can win the Global finals if he wins.....the Korea finals too? hahahahahahaha"
"In my opinion, it seems they are trying to expand the scene but it seems they are doing the opposite. Are they telling....hundreds and hundreds of gamers to win? Every single one of them?"
"They seem to be trying to equalize Korea with everywhere else hahahahaha You think NA and EU are the same as KR? I'm all for..."...equality but this is just ridiculous and I cannot comprehend these changes."
"I kept trusting that they would persuade us players by raising the prize pool but we wake up to this news? I can't even."
"I don't know if my team is the only one being affected but this is just too much. Every announcement is disappointing."
"So we have to go through qualifiers and barely get to the Premier League, but now there's another tourney above that we
"...to win to be considered a winner? I can't even."
Show nested quote +@FXOChoya "@StarTale815 hahahahaha I wake up to everyone freaking out, if this continues they must just delete SC2 ahahahahahaha" Show nested quote +"WCS NA=EU=KR all have the same prize pool while our GSL has essentially dropped to the class of other tournaments. We either...""have to play outside of our country or become the best in the country. You are making a joke out of us." There you have it. While my argument seems pessimistic to most, most of the players feel the same way as I do. I have an exam to write in 2 hours and then another tomorrow so I wont be able to respond but I'll be sure to.
I give up. Either this is a language barrier or... (EDIT: removed personal attack).
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On April 17 2013 22:47 LighT. wrote:Quoting more from Choya Show nested quote +@FXOChoya "Winning isn't easy. Are they handing out that kind of prize pool because they think one can win the Global finals if he wins.....the Korea finals too? hahahahahahaha"
"In my opinion, it seems they are trying to expand the scene but it seems they are doing the opposite. Are they telling....hundreds and hundreds of gamers to win? Every single one of them?"
"They seem to be trying to equalize Korea with everywhere else hahahahaha You think NA and EU are the same as KR? I'm all for..."...equality but this is just ridiculous and I cannot comprehend these changes."
"I kept trusting that they would persuade us players by raising the prize pool but we wake up to this news? I can't even."
"I don't know if my team is the only one being affected but this is just too much. Every announcement is disappointing."
"So we have to go through qualifiers and barely get to the Premier League, but now there's another tourney above that we
"...to win to be considered a winner? I can't even."
Show nested quote +@FXOChoya "@StarTale815 hahahahaha I wake up to everyone freaking out, if this continues they must just delete SC2 ahahahahahaha" Show nested quote +"WCS NA=EU=KR all have the same prize pool while our GSL has essentially dropped to the class of other tournaments. We either...""have to play outside of our country or become the best in the country. You are making a joke out of us." There you have it. While my argument seems pessimistic to most, most of the players feel the same way as I do. I have an exam to write in 2 hours and then another tomorrow so I wont be able to respond but I'll be sure to.
You have posted the opinion of a single coach like three times and some other players. That is not most of the professional players in Korea. Also, Choya is one of the youngest coaches I am aware of, which makes me question how much he is thinking this all through before freaking out on twitter. I am not doubting abilities, but I don't know how much experience he has with the business end of the team or is aware how world wide exposure helps the team.
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On April 17 2013 22:39 LighT. wrote:
These quotes come from
Coaches. Players. Players who are GSL champions. Casters alike.
Do you honestly believe that this is in any shape or form a good thing?
I get optimism but what blizzard is doing is retarded.
Yes what Blizzard does is a good thing, how about you look at the overall picture.
Sc2 in korea was falling and looking really really bad, fewer GSL every single year since the start, with less price money each year.
OGN cutting the television time for official matches from kespa sc2 teams in half, by showing only 2 days on TV instead of 4.
Who tells you that maybe GOM was not about to fall as well, and Blizzard came in, supported them with prize money help, support, new studio etc.
I'm kind of upset about all these negative comments everywhere, What do you think would happen if Blizzard would not have pumped all this years value of money into sc2 at all, be it the foreign scene or KR.
(gom still gets money from blizzard if I am not mistaken to support gsl to keep running as a sponsor)
And now imagine Blizzard not doing any of this. That would be insanely scary from my point of view.
/edit - especially for the korean scene
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Say you are Startale_Life.
What is the chance that you will make it to WCS Season Finals all year long (3/3) if you play in Korea?
Compare your answer with:
What is the chance that you will make it to WCS Season Finals all year long (3/3) if you play in NA?
So, where would you go play?
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On April 17 2013 22:43 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 22:39 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 22:33 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:15 LighT. wrote:
As I re-iterate.
This move IS good for the overalll scene.
NA + EU will benefit off of this
100%
I almost guarantee it.
This move however is NOT good for KR
It's an insult.
It's a slap in the face.
Blizzard is belitting the players.
Growth is hindered. Can you please tell your arguments behind that claim? I posted numbers above that tell a different story. If they are wrong, please tell my why. Let's quote some people .@FXOChoya "What's with this prize pool?? My eyes must be messed up." @FXOChoya "Are Korean players and teams not important at all? Who is this league for and why have they made these changes? Do they not..."
.@FXOChoya "...care about the opinions of us players?" @MKPS2 "They're really making us give up..." .@LGIM_NesTea_ "@MKPS2 They only slightly lowered the 2nd place prize...good news right..? haha" @FXOLeenock "What is this...$20k for first place? -_- Why are they changing the prize pool when we're already in the ro32 hahaha" @FXOsupreme "How do they devastate us with every update they make???" @StarTale815 "There is no way. These guys have sponsors, so why are they lowering their prize pool? I thought that they would announce..."
@StarTale815 "...a counter-announcement. I was a fool and I am angry."] @NsHsJjakji "What is this..." .@SC2MVP "Where are we going with this...it's only my opinion, but if they raised the prize pool, they could include that in the...".@SC2MVP "individual leagues, and put a team league in the WCS..." @Startale_Yun "You're taking this joke way too far." .@firebathero "@Engine141 Though they open their mouths, their ears are shut." These quotes come from Coaches. Players. Players who are GSL champions. Casters alike. Do you honestly believe that this is in any shape or form a good thing? I get optimism but what blizzard is doing is retarded. Ok, last try. Is there any argument behind these complaints? When I read all this this morning I was puzzled, because I remembered things being different. So I took some time and looked up, what changed in the price pools. I came to the conclusion, it did not change for worse for KR players. We had some discussions over the day and I added some more research and numbers. Still the conclusion stands, nothing changed for worse. I am not bashing on KR players, but I don't see any reason, but complaining just because things change w/o checking if for better or worse. Neither them nor you brought any argument. And no, "they are the awesome KR pros" is not an argument in my book.
Last response before studying. Wish me luck 
The argument is simple.
Blizzard wants to make
EU = NA = KR, for that they want EU and NA growth to happen. They placed a system that does just that.
However while placing the system in place by taking away the prestigious title of GSL and OSL and having it only become a feeder for a "Blizzard's hosted tournament", and regulating the # of seeds koreans have to the same of EU/NA players..when the KR sccene is obviously 3-4x more competitive. It's an insult to them as a whole.
The 1st place argument is also simple. So they took away the GSL /OSL prestige of a GSL/OSL winner and the pride of being a runner up. Fine. But what they do get in return? A lower prize pool above that and some "points".
In reverse: What do the players get out of it? How does this system benefit Korea?
It doesnt.
Outside of a few extra games casted on OGN but they couldhave been handled differently since blizzard just enticed them with the power of $.
The stability as I say again in the KR scene is not stable.
There are teams which are on the brink of disbanding.
EVen a team like WJS are in the threat of being relegated due to financial trouble.
There is no growth.
In EU/NA you have additional sponsors.
Na'Vi joined in. Western Wolves formed, TB's Axiom. Azubu. Investment from the global companies.
In KR there hasnt been a major additional sponsor for months.
In BW at the times of rapid growth. You had Hwaseung, Hite, MBCGameHero
There's none of that. Because they do not believe sc2 is a game worth investing.
How would this change their perspective?
Yes, I understand that lower placed players get more $ and that's good. But they took away the prestige and the title, and they dare think the competition in EU or NA is equal to KR? They're forcing their hand for players to move out to different regions but in most cases they cant because of GSTL/SPL obligations.
If they wanted to do a WCS format like that.
They should have done a team format.
It works better. More exposure.
Not like this.
This is terrible.
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On April 17 2013 22:57 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 22:43 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:39 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 22:33 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:15 LighT. wrote:
As I re-iterate.
This move IS good for the overalll scene.
NA + EU will benefit off of this
100%
I almost guarantee it.
This move however is NOT good for KR
It's an insult.
It's a slap in the face.
Blizzard is belitting the players.
Growth is hindered. Can you please tell your arguments behind that claim? I posted numbers above that tell a different story. If they are wrong, please tell my why. Let's quote some people .@FXOChoya "What's with this prize pool?? My eyes must be messed up." @FXOChoya "Are Korean players and teams not important at all? Who is this league for and why have they made these changes? Do they not..."
.@FXOChoya "...care about the opinions of us players?" @MKPS2 "They're really making us give up..." .@LGIM_NesTea_ "@MKPS2 They only slightly lowered the 2nd place prize...good news right..? haha" @FXOLeenock "What is this...$20k for first place? -_- Why are they changing the prize pool when we're already in the ro32 hahaha" @FXOsupreme "How do they devastate us with every update they make???" @StarTale815 "There is no way. These guys have sponsors, so why are they lowering their prize pool? I thought that they would announce..."
@StarTale815 "...a counter-announcement. I was a fool and I am angry."] @NsHsJjakji "What is this..." .@SC2MVP "Where are we going with this...it's only my opinion, but if they raised the prize pool, they could include that in the...".@SC2MVP "individual leagues, and put a team league in the WCS..." @Startale_Yun "You're taking this joke way too far." .@firebathero "@Engine141 Though they open their mouths, their ears are shut." These quotes come from Coaches. Players. Players who are GSL champions. Casters alike. Do you honestly believe that this is in any shape or form a good thing? I get optimism but what blizzard is doing is retarded. Ok, last try. Is there any argument behind these complaints? When I read all this this morning I was puzzled, because I remembered things being different. So I took some time and looked up, what changed in the price pools. I came to the conclusion, it did not change for worse for KR players. We had some discussions over the day and I added some more research and numbers. Still the conclusion stands, nothing changed for worse. I am not bashing on KR players, but I don't see any reason, but complaining just because things change w/o checking if for better or worse. Neither them nor you brought any argument. And no, "they are the awesome KR pros" is not an argument in my book. Last response before studying. Wish me luck [...]
Good luck with your exams
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That leave me with an additional thought.for everyone..
Why do they have to do this for individual leagues?
Why not for a team league sort of thing?
If they wanted to pump in money they could have just started a
North American Team League
European Champions League and made a ridiculous prize pool.
This would promote growth.
The seedings..equal seedings would mean jackshit because it's a team league after all.
Global exposure.
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koreans receive less money overall.
last year they had 5 gsl + 1 osl + wcs kr.
now they have 1gsl + 3 wcs kr. each wcs brings less money than 1 gsl.
the thing i don't understand, every single gsl had a sponsor who gave money. where is that money now? what's the role of mangosix then?
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On April 17 2013 22:57 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 22:43 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:39 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 22:33 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:15 LighT. wrote:
As I re-iterate.
This move IS good for the overalll scene.
NA + EU will benefit off of this
100%
I almost guarantee it.
This move however is NOT good for KR
It's an insult.
It's a slap in the face.
Blizzard is belitting the players.
Growth is hindered. Can you please tell your arguments behind that claim? I posted numbers above that tell a different story. If they are wrong, please tell my why. Let's quote some people .@FXOChoya "What's with this prize pool?? My eyes must be messed up." @FXOChoya "Are Korean players and teams not important at all? Who is this league for and why have they made these changes? Do they not..."
.@FXOChoya "...care about the opinions of us players?" @MKPS2 "They're really making us give up..." .@LGIM_NesTea_ "@MKPS2 They only slightly lowered the 2nd place prize...good news right..? haha" @FXOLeenock "What is this...$20k for first place? -_- Why are they changing the prize pool when we're already in the ro32 hahaha" @FXOsupreme "How do they devastate us with every update they make???" @StarTale815 "There is no way. These guys have sponsors, so why are they lowering their prize pool? I thought that they would announce..."
@StarTale815 "...a counter-announcement. I was a fool and I am angry."] @NsHsJjakji "What is this..." .@SC2MVP "Where are we going with this...it's only my opinion, but if they raised the prize pool, they could include that in the...".@SC2MVP "individual leagues, and put a team league in the WCS..." @Startale_Yun "You're taking this joke way too far." .@firebathero "@Engine141 Though they open their mouths, their ears are shut." These quotes come from Coaches. Players. Players who are GSL champions. Casters alike. Do you honestly believe that this is in any shape or form a good thing? I get optimism but what blizzard is doing is retarded. Ok, last try. Is there any argument behind these complaints? When I read all this this morning I was puzzled, because I remembered things being different. So I took some time and looked up, what changed in the price pools. I came to the conclusion, it did not change for worse for KR players. We had some discussions over the day and I added some more research and numbers. Still the conclusion stands, nothing changed for worse. I am not bashing on KR players, but I don't see any reason, but complaining just because things change w/o checking if for better or worse. Neither them nor you brought any argument. And no, "they are the awesome KR pros" is not an argument in my book. Last response before studying. Wish me luck The argument is simple. Blizzard wants to make EU = NA = KR, for that they want EU and NA growth to happen. They placed a system that does just that. However while placing the system in place by taking away the prestigious title of GSL and OSL and having it only become a feeder for a "Blizzard's hosted tournament", and regulating the # of seeds koreans have to the same of EU/NA players..when the KR sccene is obviously 3-4x more competitive. It's an insult to them as a whole. The 1st place argument is also simple. So they took away the GSL /OSL prestige of a GSL/OSL winner and the pride of being a runner up. Fine. But what they do get in return? A lower prize pool above that and some "points". In reverse: What do the players get out of it? How does this system benefit Korea? It doesnt. Outside of a few extra games casted on OGN but they couldhave been handled differently since blizzard just enticed them with the power of $. The stability as I say again in the KR scene is not stable. There are teams which are on the brink of disbanding. EVen a team like WJS are in the threat of being relegated due to financial trouble. There is no growth. In EU/NA you have additional sponsors. Na'Vi joined in. Western Wolves formed, TB's Axiom. Azubu. Investment from the global companies. In KR there hasnt been a major additional sponsor for months. In BW at the times of rapid growth. You had Hwaseung, Hite, MBCGameHero There's none of that. Because they do not believe sc2 is a game worth investing. How would this change their perspective? Yes, I understand that lower placed players get more $ and that's good. But they took away the prestige and the title, and they dare think the competition in EU or NA is equal to KR? They're forcing their hand for players to move out to different regions but in most cases they cant because of GSTL/SPL obligations. If they wanted to do a WCS format like that. They should have done a team format. It works better. More exposure. Not like this. This is terrible.
If the system started out providing more slots for Koreans because their scene was more competitive, when are those slots taken away? How do does Blizzard know when the other scenes have "caught up"? When they take those extra slots away, will the Korean teams just freak out then an say the Blizzard is disrespecting them and ruining Korean SC2 for the sake of the NA and EU scene?
Making a system that provided Korea with extra placements slots or more prize money would just lead to this same discussion happening later. Once Blizzard opens that door, its hard to close. So Blizzard should just make everything equal and let the players figure it out on their own.
P.S. Stop posting in haiku. Its kinda weird.
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On April 17 2013 22:57 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 22:43 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:39 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 22:33 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:15 LighT. wrote:
As I re-iterate.
This move IS good for the overalll scene.
NA + EU will benefit off of this
100%
I almost guarantee it.
This move however is NOT good for KR
It's an insult.
It's a slap in the face.
Blizzard is belitting the players.
Growth is hindered. Can you please tell your arguments behind that claim? I posted numbers above that tell a different story. If they are wrong, please tell my why. Let's quote some people .@FXOChoya "What's with this prize pool?? My eyes must be messed up." @FXOChoya "Are Korean players and teams not important at all? Who is this league for and why have they made these changes? Do they not..."
.@FXOChoya "...care about the opinions of us players?" @MKPS2 "They're really making us give up..." .@LGIM_NesTea_ "@MKPS2 They only slightly lowered the 2nd place prize...good news right..? haha" @FXOLeenock "What is this...$20k for first place? -_- Why are they changing the prize pool when we're already in the ro32 hahaha" @FXOsupreme "How do they devastate us with every update they make???" @StarTale815 "There is no way. These guys have sponsors, so why are they lowering their prize pool? I thought that they would announce..."
@StarTale815 "...a counter-announcement. I was a fool and I am angry."] @NsHsJjakji "What is this..." .@SC2MVP "Where are we going with this...it's only my opinion, but if they raised the prize pool, they could include that in the...".@SC2MVP "individual leagues, and put a team league in the WCS..." @Startale_Yun "You're taking this joke way too far." .@firebathero "@Engine141 Though they open their mouths, their ears are shut." These quotes come from Coaches. Players. Players who are GSL champions. Casters alike. Do you honestly believe that this is in any shape or form a good thing? I get optimism but what blizzard is doing is retarded. Ok, last try. Is there any argument behind these complaints? When I read all this this morning I was puzzled, because I remembered things being different. So I took some time and looked up, what changed in the price pools. I came to the conclusion, it did not change for worse for KR players. We had some discussions over the day and I added some more research and numbers. Still the conclusion stands, nothing changed for worse. I am not bashing on KR players, but I don't see any reason, but complaining just because things change w/o checking if for better or worse. Neither them nor you brought any argument. And no, "they are the awesome KR pros" is not an argument in my book. Last response before studying. Wish me luck The argument is simple. Blizzard wants to make EU = NA = KR, for that they want EU and NA growth to happen. They placed a system that does just that. However while placing the system in place by taking away the prestigious title of GSL and OSL and having it only become a feeder for a "Blizzard's hosted tournament", and regulating the # of seeds koreans have to the same of EU/NA players..when the KR sccene is obviously 3-4x more competitive. It's an insult to them as a whole. The 1st place argument is also simple. So they took away the GSL /OSL prestige of a GSL/OSL winner and the pride of being a runner up. Fine. But what they do get in return? A lower prize pool above that and some "points". In reverse: What do the players get out of it? How does this system benefit Korea? It doesnt. Outside of a few extra games casted on OGN but they couldhave been handled differently since blizzard just enticed them with the power of $. The stability as I say again in the KR scene is not stable. There are teams which are on the brink of disbanding. EVen a team like WJS are in the threat of being relegated due to financial trouble. There is no growth. In EU/NA you have additional sponsors. Na'Vi joined in. Western Wolves formed, TB's Axiom. Azubu. Investment from the global companies. In KR there hasnt been a major additional sponsor for months. In BW at the times of rapid growth. You had Hwaseung, Hite, MBCGameHero There's none of that. Because they do not believe sc2 is a game worth investing. How would this change their perspective? Yes, I understand that lower placed players get more $ and that's good. But they took away the prestige and the title, and they dare think the competition in EU or NA is equal to KR? They're forcing their hand for players to move out to different regions but in most cases they cant because of GSTL/SPL obligations. If they wanted to do a WCS format like that. They should have done a team format. It works better. More exposure. Not like this. This is terrible.
So i gather that the problem seems to be that EU and NA scenes got a boost while KR stayed about the same (based on calculations few pages back). I don't really see how this is supposed to be a bad thing when nothing is taken away from anyone.
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On April 17 2013 23:03 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 22:57 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 22:43 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:39 LighT. wrote:On April 17 2013 22:33 grs wrote:On April 17 2013 22:15 LighT. wrote:
As I re-iterate.
This move IS good for the overalll scene.
NA + EU will benefit off of this
100%
I almost guarantee it.
This move however is NOT good for KR
It's an insult.
It's a slap in the face.
Blizzard is belitting the players.
Growth is hindered. Can you please tell your arguments behind that claim? I posted numbers above that tell a different story. If they are wrong, please tell my why. Let's quote some people .@FXOChoya "What's with this prize pool?? My eyes must be messed up." @FXOChoya "Are Korean players and teams not important at all? Who is this league for and why have they made these changes? Do they not..."
.@FXOChoya "...care about the opinions of us players?" @MKPS2 "They're really making us give up..." .@LGIM_NesTea_ "@MKPS2 They only slightly lowered the 2nd place prize...good news right..? haha" @FXOLeenock "What is this...$20k for first place? -_- Why are they changing the prize pool when we're already in the ro32 hahaha" @FXOsupreme "How do they devastate us with every update they make???" @StarTale815 "There is no way. These guys have sponsors, so why are they lowering their prize pool? I thought that they would announce..."
@StarTale815 "...a counter-announcement. I was a fool and I am angry."] @NsHsJjakji "What is this..." .@SC2MVP "Where are we going with this...it's only my opinion, but if they raised the prize pool, they could include that in the...".@SC2MVP "individual leagues, and put a team league in the WCS..." @Startale_Yun "You're taking this joke way too far." .@firebathero "@Engine141 Though they open their mouths, their ears are shut." These quotes come from Coaches. Players. Players who are GSL champions. Casters alike. Do you honestly believe that this is in any shape or form a good thing? I get optimism but what blizzard is doing is retarded. Ok, last try. Is there any argument behind these complaints? When I read all this this morning I was puzzled, because I remembered things being different. So I took some time and looked up, what changed in the price pools. I came to the conclusion, it did not change for worse for KR players. We had some discussions over the day and I added some more research and numbers. Still the conclusion stands, nothing changed for worse. I am not bashing on KR players, but I don't see any reason, but complaining just because things change w/o checking if for better or worse. Neither them nor you brought any argument. And no, "they are the awesome KR pros" is not an argument in my book. Last response before studying. Wish me luck The argument is simple. Blizzard wants to make EU = NA = KR, for that they want EU and NA growth to happen. They placed a system that does just that. However while placing the system in place by taking away the prestigious title of GSL and OSL and having it only become a feeder for a "Blizzard's hosted tournament", and regulating the # of seeds koreans have to the same of EU/NA players..when the KR sccene is obviously 3-4x more competitive. It's an insult to them as a whole. The 1st place argument is also simple. So they took away the GSL /OSL prestige of a GSL/OSL winner and the pride of being a runner up. Fine. But what they do get in return? A lower prize pool above that and some "points". In reverse: What do the players get out of it? How does this system benefit Korea? It doesnt. Outside of a few extra games casted on OGN but they couldhave been handled differently since blizzard just enticed them with the power of $. The stability as I say again in the KR scene is not stable. There are teams which are on the brink of disbanding. EVen a team like WJS are in the threat of being relegated due to financial trouble. There is no growth. In EU/NA you have additional sponsors. Na'Vi joined in. Western Wolves formed, TB's Axiom. Azubu. Investment from the global companies. In KR there hasnt been a major additional sponsor for months. In BW at the times of rapid growth. You had Hwaseung, Hite, MBCGameHero There's none of that. Because they do not believe sc2 is a game worth investing. How would this change their perspective? Yes, I understand that lower placed players get more $ and that's good. But they took away the prestige and the title, and they dare think the competition in EU or NA is equal to KR? They're forcing their hand for players to move out to different regions but in most cases they cant because of GSTL/SPL obligations. If they wanted to do a WCS format like that. They should have done a team format. It works better. More exposure. Not like this. This is terrible. If the system started out providing more slots for Koreans because their scene was more competitive, when are those slots taken away? How do does Blizzard know when the other scenes have "caught up"? When they take those extra slots away, will the Korean teams just freak out then an say the Blizzard is disrespecting them and ruining Korean SC2 for the sake of the NA and EU scene? Making a system that provided Korea with extra placements slots or more prize money would just lead to this same discussion happening later. Once Blizzard opens that door, its hard to close. So Blizzard should just make everything equal and let the players figure it out on their own. P.S. Stop posting in haiku. Its kinda weird.
Like in footbal. England gets 3 slots and 1 in qualifiers for Champions League and Cyprus gets 1 in qualifiers. When is Cyprus gonna get more slots is when EU and NA should get more slots for SC2 WCS finals?
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On April 17 2013 22:54 Quateras wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 22:39 LighT. wrote:
These quotes come from
Coaches. Players. Players who are GSL champions. Casters alike.
Do you honestly believe that this is in any shape or form a good thing?
I get optimism but what blizzard is doing is retarded. Yes what Blizzard does is a good thing, how about you look at the overall picture. Sc2 in korea was falling and looking really really bad, fewer GSL every single year since the start, with less price money each year. OGN cutting the television time for official matches from kespa sc2 teams in half, by showing only 2 days on TV instead of 4. Who tells you that maybe GOM was not about to fall as well, and Blizzard came in, supported them with prize money help, support, new studio etc. I'm kind of upset about all these negative comments everywhere, What do you think would happen if Blizzard would not have pumped all this years value of money into sc2 at all, be it the foreign scene or KR. (gom still gets money from blizzard if I am not mistaken to support gsl to keep running as a sponsor) And now imagine Blizzard not doing any of this. That would be insanely scary from my point of view. /edit - especially for the korean scene
i totally agree, in a business point there isnt even a reason to pump money in a market where u cant see marketgrowth and potential(sc2 in korea was a fail compared to BW and LoL now ) but there is a huge growth in the foreign esports scene, what blizz is doing (pumpin money in kr scene) is charity in my opinion cauz there wont be any profit or return of investment by doing that
koreans should be happy blizz is pumpin money in kr... osl would be dropping sc2 100%(LoL is big, SC2 0%crowd, no reason to support that game) if blizz wouldnt sponsor them
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EPT
