On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote: If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.
EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.
I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."
I'd say that's a bad assumption because these are professional players and coaches. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually took the time to research the announcements and tournament structure.
I don't really give complaining on the internet the benefit of the doubt. Whining to your followers on twitter is pretty unprofessional in general and I don't really take a lot of the complaints seriously. A lot of these folks are very young and do dumb stuff in interviews. Look at Teaja's interview where he stated he hated Blizzard. Kennigit was talking openly talking about how that was bad PR that Liquid shouldn't have on twitter.
There is the potential for the best player in the GSL to win a lot of money per season, even if the GSL finals are not where that happens. And even if they don't win everything they still take home a large amount of money. The complaining seems silly or based on first glance.
What do you not get about this? Probability of two events happening together is always less than one event happening, ergo probability of winning GSL and season finals is less than probability of winning GSL alone, which means that the chances of getting 50k are now lower than they were before, even if you're a championship contender. What is so hard to understand about this? This is 100% bad news for Koreans interested in prize money. Period.
It's also a high probability of placing highly in a tournament with 5 Koreans, 5 Americans, and 5 Europeans assuming that Koreans are actually better than the Americans and Europeans. The GSL champion might not win the whole tournament, but he is almost guaranteed to take down an extra $7,500 and will likely win more. Yes, this is a probabilistic exercise, but I'm sure that the expected value of the GSL champion's winnings are approximately equal to what it was before.
Exactly. The players that are focused on prize money have the ability to win more than last year per season. It is very unlikely that the GSL champion is going to bomb out and place 16th. Even if he took 3rd place in the season finals, he still would have won 30K. The if someone comes in second place both times, they take hope 32K. The top players are from the regions are going to rise to the top of the season finals and add to their winnings from their regional finals.
On April 18 2013 01:07 Kergy wrote: so a player that wins the NA gsl gets the same ammount of money as one that wins the real one
how is this fair, haha
It's fair because it is Blizzard's money and they are choosing not to show bias towards any regions. Kind of getting tired of hearing people bitch just to bitch. If you are so worried about Koreans not making enough money, then put up the extra cash yourself. If you are worried about Koreans having less tournaments, again, put up the dough and create the tournament yourself. As an added bonus, feel free to invite whomever you wish so that it satisfies your hunger for "only the best".
On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote: If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.
EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.
I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."
I'd say that's a bad assumption because these are professional players and coaches. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually took the time to research the announcements and tournament structure.
I don't really give complaining on the internet the benefit of the doubt. Whining to your followers on twitter is pretty unprofessional in general and I don't really take a lot of the complaints seriously. A lot of these folks are very young and do dumb stuff in interviews. Look at Teaja's interview where he stated he hated Blizzard. Kennigit was talking openly talking about how that was bad PR that Liquid shouldn't have on twitter.
There is the potential for the best player in the GSL to win a lot of money per season, even if the GSL finals are not where that happens. And even if they don't win everything they still take home a large amount of money. The complaining seems silly or based on first glance.
What do you not get about this? Probability of two events happening together is always less than one event happening, ergo probability of winning GSL and season finals is less than probability of winning GSL alone, which means that the chances of getting 50k are now lower than they were before, even if you're a championship contender. What is so hard to understand about this? This is 100% bad news for Koreans interested in prize money. Period.
It's also a high probability of placing highly in a tournament with 5 Koreans, 5 Americans, and 5 Europeans assuming that Koreans are actually better than the Americans and Europeans. The GSL champion might not win the whole tournament, but he is almost guaranteed to take down an extra $7,500 and will likely win more. Yes, this is a probabilistic exercise, but I'm sure that the expected value of the GSL champion's winnings are approximately equal to what it was before.
Probability is still less. And I'm not just saying that. It's a fact. If probability of winning GSL is 1/x and probability of coming Y place in seasonal finals is 1/y, then probability of both happening together is 1/x * 1/y . Even if the probabilities are extremely high, it's still less than 1/x or 1/y individually.
The first prize for GSL Code S is ~46k. In order to make near that much, a winner of Code S now needs to come at least 2nd in the seasonal finals. That is far from guaranteed and far from easy, even if there are Europeans/Americans in the bracket. There are still 4 other top Koreans who can trade games with you on any day of the week.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote: If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.
EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.
I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."
I'd say that's a bad assumption because these are professional players and coaches. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually took the time to research the announcements and tournament structure.
I don't really give complaining on the internet the benefit of the doubt. Whining to your followers on twitter is pretty unprofessional in general and I don't really take a lot of the complaints seriously. A lot of these folks are very young and do dumb stuff in interviews. Look at Teaja's interview where he stated he hated Blizzard. Kennigit was talking openly talking about how that was bad PR that Liquid shouldn't have on twitter.
There is the potential for the best player in the GSL to win a lot of money per season, even if the GSL finals are not where that happens. And even if they don't win everything they still take home a large amount of money. The complaining seems silly or based on first glance.
What do you not get about this? Probability of two events happening together is always less than one event happening, ergo probability of winning GSL and season finals is less than probability of winning GSL alone, which means that the chances of getting 50k are now lower than they were before, even if you're a championship contender. What is so hard to understand about this? This is 100% bad news for Koreans interested in prize money. Period.
It's also a high probability of placing highly in a tournament with 5 Koreans, 5 Americans, and 5 Europeans assuming that Koreans are actually better than the Americans and Europeans. The GSL champion might not win the whole tournament, but he is almost guaranteed to take down an extra $7,500 and will likely win more. Yes, this is a probabilistic exercise, but I'm sure that the expected value of the GSL champion's winnings are approximately equal to what it was before.
Probability is still less. And I'm not just saying that. It's a fact. If probability of winning GSL is 1/x and probability of coming Y place in seasonal finals is 1/y, then probability of both happening together is 1/x * 1/y . Even if the probabilities are extremely high, it's still less than 1/x or 1/y individually.
The first prize for GSL Code S is ~46k. In order to make near that much, a winner of Code S now needs to come at least 2nd in the seasonal finals. That is far from guaranteed and far from easy, even if there are Europeans/Americans in the bracket. There are still 4 other top Koreans who can trade games with you on any day of the week.
It's the expected value. So the calculation is more like this:
So it's assume that that a GSL champion has a 1/5th chance of winning, a 25% chance of 2nd, a 25% chance of 3-4th, a 20% chance of 5-8, and a 10% chance of 9-16th.
The expected winning is $11,500. Still not as much as a traditional GSL, but it's the only place that fares worse than in the previous system.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote: If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.
EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.
I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."
I'd say that's a bad assumption because these are professional players and coaches. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually took the time to research the announcements and tournament structure.
I don't really give complaining on the internet the benefit of the doubt. Whining to your followers on twitter is pretty unprofessional in general and I don't really take a lot of the complaints seriously. A lot of these folks are very young and do dumb stuff in interviews. Look at Teaja's interview where he stated he hated Blizzard. Kennigit was talking openly talking about how that was bad PR that Liquid shouldn't have on twitter.
There is the potential for the best player in the GSL to win a lot of money per season, even if the GSL finals are not where that happens. And even if they don't win everything they still take home a large amount of money. The complaining seems silly or based on first glance.
What do you not get about this? Probability of two events happening together is always less than one event happening, ergo probability of winning GSL and season finals is less than probability of winning GSL alone, which means that the chances of getting 50k are now lower than they were before, even if you're a championship contender. What is so hard to understand about this? This is 100% bad news for Koreans interested in prize money. Period.
It's also a high probability of placing highly in a tournament with 5 Koreans, 5 Americans, and 5 Europeans assuming that Koreans are actually better than the Americans and Europeans. The GSL champion might not win the whole tournament, but he is almost guaranteed to take down an extra $7,500 and will likely win more. Yes, this is a probabilistic exercise, but I'm sure that the expected value of the GSL champion's winnings are approximately equal to what it was before.
Probability is still less. And I'm not just saying that. It's a fact. If probability of winning GSL is 1/x and probability of coming Y place in seasonal finals is 1/y, then probability of both happening together is 1/x * 1/y . Even if the probabilities are extremely high, it's still less than 1/x or 1/y individually.
The first prize for GSL Code S is ~46k. In order to make near that much, a winner of Code S now needs to come at least 2nd in the seasonal finals. That is far from guaranteed and far from easy, even if there are Europeans/Americans in the bracket. There are still 4 other top Koreans who can trade games with you on any day of the week.
It's the expected value. So the calculation is more like this:
So it's assume that that a GSL champion has a 1/5th chance of winning, a 25% chance of 2nd, a 25% chance of 3-4th, a 20% chance of 5-8, and a 10% chance of 9-16th.
The expected winning is $11,500. Still not as much as a traditional GSL, but it's the only place that fares worse than in the previous system.
The winner faring worse is a pretty big deal. Further, WCS is supposed to be an improvement to the scene, not a tradeoff. This just feels like redistributing funds rather than actually injecting anything new into the scene. That's why people are angry.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote: If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.
EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.
I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."
I'd say that's a bad assumption because these are professional players and coaches. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually took the time to research the announcements and tournament structure.
I don't really give complaining on the internet the benefit of the doubt. Whining to your followers on twitter is pretty unprofessional in general and I don't really take a lot of the complaints seriously. A lot of these folks are very young and do dumb stuff in interviews. Look at Teaja's interview where he stated he hated Blizzard. Kennigit was talking openly talking about how that was bad PR that Liquid shouldn't have on twitter.
There is the potential for the best player in the GSL to win a lot of money per season, even if the GSL finals are not where that happens. And even if they don't win everything they still take home a large amount of money. The complaining seems silly or based on first glance.
What do you not get about this? Probability of two events happening together is always less than one event happening, ergo probability of winning GSL and season finals is less than probability of winning GSL alone, which means that the chances of getting 50k are now lower than they were before, even if you're a championship contender. What is so hard to understand about this? This is 100% bad news for Koreans interested in prize money. Period.
It's also a high probability of placing highly in a tournament with 5 Koreans, 5 Americans, and 5 Europeans assuming that Koreans are actually better than the Americans and Europeans. The GSL champion might not win the whole tournament, but he is almost guaranteed to take down an extra $7,500 and will likely win more. Yes, this is a probabilistic exercise, but I'm sure that the expected value of the GSL champion's winnings are approximately equal to what it was before.
Probability is still less. And I'm not just saying that. It's a fact. If probability of winning GSL is 1/x and probability of coming Y place in seasonal finals is 1/y, then probability of both happening together is 1/x * 1/y . Even if the probabilities are extremely high, it's still less than 1/x or 1/y individually.
The first prize for GSL Code S is ~46k. In order to make near that much, a winner of Code S now needs to come at least 2nd in the seasonal finals. That is far from guaranteed and far from easy, even if there are Europeans/Americans in the bracket. There are still 4 other top Koreans who can trade games with you on any day of the week.
It's the expected value. So the calculation is more like this:
So it's assume that that a GSL champion has a 1/5th chance of winning, a 25% chance of 2nd, a 25% chance of 3-4th, a 20% chance of 5-8, and a 10% chance of 9-16th.
The expected winning is $11,500. Still not as much as a traditional GSL, but it's the only place that fares worse than in the previous system.
The winner faring worse is a pretty big deal. Further, WCS is supposed to be an improvement to the scene, not a tradeoff. This just feels like redistributing funds rather than actually injecting anything new into the scene. That's why people are angry.
You don't support the scene by having an overly lopsided 1st place prize. It's an improvement to the scene because more people will be able to make a solid living off of the tournament than before. It will also be an improvement because the longer storylines will give better opportunities for sponsors. It's a big deal if the GSL season 2 champion is basically qualified for the Blizzcon finals-- it should be much easier to find a sponsorship knowing that there is a huge event in the future.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote: If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.
EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.
I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."
I'd say that's a bad assumption because these are professional players and coaches. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually took the time to research the announcements and tournament structure.
I don't really give complaining on the internet the benefit of the doubt. Whining to your followers on twitter is pretty unprofessional in general and I don't really take a lot of the complaints seriously. A lot of these folks are very young and do dumb stuff in interviews. Look at Teaja's interview where he stated he hated Blizzard. Kennigit was talking openly talking about how that was bad PR that Liquid shouldn't have on twitter.
There is the potential for the best player in the GSL to win a lot of money per season, even if the GSL finals are not where that happens. And even if they don't win everything they still take home a large amount of money. The complaining seems silly or based on first glance.
What do you not get about this? Probability of two events happening together is always less than one event happening, ergo probability of winning GSL and season finals is less than probability of winning GSL alone, which means that the chances of getting 50k are now lower than they were before, even if you're a championship contender. What is so hard to understand about this? This is 100% bad news for Koreans interested in prize money. Period.
It's also a high probability of placing highly in a tournament with 5 Koreans, 5 Americans, and 5 Europeans assuming that Koreans are actually better than the Americans and Europeans. The GSL champion might not win the whole tournament, but he is almost guaranteed to take down an extra $7,500 and will likely win more. Yes, this is a probabilistic exercise, but I'm sure that the expected value of the GSL champion's winnings are approximately equal to what it was before.
Probability is still less. And I'm not just saying that. It's a fact. If probability of winning GSL is 1/x and probability of coming Y place in seasonal finals is 1/y, then probability of both happening together is 1/x * 1/y . Even if the probabilities are extremely high, it's still less than 1/x or 1/y individually.
The first prize for GSL Code S is ~46k. In order to make near that much, a winner of Code S now needs to come at least 2nd in the seasonal finals. That is far from guaranteed and far from easy, even if there are Europeans/Americans in the bracket. There are still 4 other top Koreans who can trade games with you on any day of the week.
It's the expected value. So the calculation is more like this:
So it's assume that that a GSL champion has a 1/5th chance of winning, a 25% chance of 2nd, a 25% chance of 3-4th, a 20% chance of 5-8, and a 10% chance of 9-16th.
The expected winning is $11,500. Still not as much as a traditional GSL, but it's the only place that fares worse than in the previous system.
The winner faring worse is a pretty big deal. Further, WCS is supposed to be an improvement to the scene, not a tradeoff. This just feels like redistributing funds rather than actually injecting anything new into the scene. That's why people are angry.
Yes, but the team also gets another tournament to go to where they can show their sponsors and get more exposure. This tournament is world wide, backed by Blizzard and will pull in viewers from all three regions who watched the other WSC events. It is more than doubling the exposure for any team makes it to the season finals, without having to do anything different than what they did last year.
People are freaking out over nothing. The players who win the Season finals will make bank. The players that win the regional finals will also make reasonable money.
There are lots of people, like me, who love the GSL and are bummed that their favorite tournament has less events per year now, with way less prize money each. It used to be the greatest tournament in the world, and now it's not much more than a WCS qualifier, whereas all other qualifiers are added to their regions tournaments without replacing them. It's not the end of the world but it's certainly not "nothing".
I guess that is a point of view, but I rarely care how much people win at the end of these events. The GSL isn't changing and is the same when I watch it every morning its on. The only thing that is different is that I know the top 5 players are going to compete in another event later this summer.
You ignored most of my comment, it's not about the prize money. It's about the fact that GSL is now as important as an NA WCS qualifier, that it has less great players *and* occurs less often. I just don't understand why they replace every single individual Korean tournament with WCS (or rather, replace 4 GSL / 2 OSL with 3 GSL / 1 OSL) and then don't even match previous amounts of prize money, while giving EU and NA WCS Qualifiers on top of existing tournaments. You can now win way more money in NA than in Korea, that's ridiculous.
On April 18 2013 01:07 Kergy wrote: so a player that wins the NA gsl gets the same ammount of money as one that wins the real one
how is this fair, haha
It's fair because it is Blizzard's money and they are choosing not to show bias towards any regions. Kind of getting tired of hearing people bitch just to bitch. If you are so worried about Koreans not making enough money, then put up the extra cash yourself. If you are worried about Koreans having less tournaments, again, put up the dough and create the tournament yourself. As an added bonus, feel free to invite whomever you wish so that it satisfies your hunger for "only the best".
Wait so we're not allowed to criticize anything they do because it's their money? Even though their revenue comes from the fans? You have no issues because Blizzard is doing what you agree with, however for a lot of people they don't like what they're doing and have a right to complain justifiably.
This post reminds of those people that are like "What? You don't like this government? Then you can get out!"
This is going to come off harsh, and for that I'm sorry. No you don't actually have the right to criticize as harshly as people have about how a company decides to spend their money, unless you are a shareholder. I don't agree or disagree with anything they are doing, because I'm genuinely neutral as it doesn't ACTUALLY affect me.
I believe people just like to bitch and moan and start an uproar over EVERYTHING; no matter how small it actually is. Why does it really bother people if the prize pool has been adjusted to be distributed more even? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't GSL going to be reduced to 4 tournaments this year even before WCS was announced? If that is the case then the argument that there's less tournaments becomes invalid.
"Justifiably" Who determines that? Everyone just sounds like a bunch of spoiled brats who want to throw a hissy anytime something happens. The only argument that I can actually agree with is that this does deplete the hardest tournament in the world of its prestige and I do believe Blizzard should have just separated WCS from GSL altogether.
People are freaking out over nothing. The players who win the Season finals will make bank. The players that win the regional finals will also make reasonable money.
There are lots of people, like me, who love the GSL and are bummed that their favorite tournament has less events per year now, with way less prize money each. It used to be the greatest tournament in the world, and now it's not much more than a WCS qualifier, whereas all other qualifiers are added to their regions tournaments without replacing them. It's not the end of the world but it's certainly not "nothing".
I guess that is a point of view, but I rarely care how much people win at the end of these events. The GSL isn't changing and is the same when I watch it every morning its on. The only thing that is different is that I know the top 5 players are going to compete in another event later this summer.
You ignored most of my comment, it's not about the prize money. It's about the fact that GSL is now as important as an NA WCS qualifier, that it has less great players *and* occurs less often. I just don't understand why they replace every single individual Korean tournament with WCS (or rather, replace 4 GSL / 2 OSL with 3 GSL / 1 OSL) and then don't even match previous amounts of prize money, while giving EU and NA WCS Qualifiers on top of existing tournaments. You can now win way more money in NA than in Korea, that's ridiculous.
I didn't ignore it at all. I just didn't agree with you, there is a difference. I don't agree that GSL has been diminished. The majority of the players who went to NA are on NA teams, like TL and EG. Further more, most of them were not qualified for Code S and a few were qualified for code A. There were always going to be fewer events this year because we had WAY to many last year.
And the reason they didn't make a separate tournament for WSC is that GOM would not have liked that at all. If they made a separate tournament for WCS, people would be losing their minds how Blizzard was trying to destroy GSL and make players choose between the two events. GOM would have another regional tournament to compete with, that was Blizzard supported and would cut into their numbers. Even if GOM ran it, they would need to find separate times and staff to run yet another set of matches, which would confuse their viewers.
The thing is I'm positive no NA or EU pro would actually complain if WCS KR had a bigger prize pool. Blizzard shouldn't disallow GOM from contributing to a bigger pool, like they did for code A
People are freaking out over nothing. The players who win the Season finals will make bank. The players that win the regional finals will also make reasonable money.
There are lots of people, like me, who love the GSL and are bummed that their favorite tournament has less events per year now, with way less prize money each. It used to be the greatest tournament in the world, and now it's not much more than a WCS qualifier, whereas all other qualifiers are added to their regions tournaments without replacing them. It's not the end of the world but it's certainly not "nothing".
I guess that is a point of view, but I rarely care how much people win at the end of these events. The GSL isn't changing and is the same when I watch it every morning its on. The only thing that is different is that I know the top 5 players are going to compete in another event later this summer.
You ignored most of my comment, it's not about the prize money. It's about the fact that GSL is now as important as an NA WCS qualifier, that it has less great players *and* occurs less often. I just don't understand why they replace every single individual Korean tournament with WCS (or rather, replace 4 GSL / 2 OSL with 3 GSL / 1 OSL) and then don't even match previous amounts of prize money, while giving EU and NA WCS Qualifiers on top of existing tournaments. You can now win way more money in NA than in Korea, that's ridiculous.
If the audience, money, and sponsorships are greater in North America than in Korea, why shouldn't you be able to win more money in North America? Soccer example: the English Premiere league is filled with non-Englishmen because that's where the money is.
As for WCS being in addition to American and EU tournaments-- that's a bad comparison. There was no NA/EU GSL style tournament before WCS. The closest was NASL (which is awesome btw), but that was an international tournament with an offline round of 8. Nothing is stopping Korean organizations from starting their own tournaments. If Koreans want to have their own version of MLG or Dreamhack, then they are free to hold them in addition to WCS.
On April 17 2013 18:57 Daswollvieh wrote: I wonder how the Korean players are gonna handle the live rounds in NA/EU. With their presence being required for like 5 days, it´s gonna cost them dearly and that for every season. Maybe some new partnerships or open training house concepts will arise from this?
EDIT: Or the feared Korean-reign won´t happen because most will stay in Korea.
95% of the KRs that joined are on foreign teams bro. Travel won't be an issue for them.
This is like tennis paying out the same prize pool for winning a random tennis tournament and winning wimbledon or golf paying the same for a lesser golf tourney and the masters. Makes no sense, other than affirmative action for foreigners and giving them charity money.
On April 18 2013 00:07 Branman wrote: If the Koreans are truly the best in the world, then they shouldn't worry about winning the seasonal finals. The only conclusion I can reach based on these player comments is that they are actually worried about losing to Americans and Europeans in the seasonal finals.
EDIT: Soccer example. I don't think Barcelona or a Brazilian club is worried about the LA Galaxy showing up to the club world cup and taking down large prize money.
I assume that all the comments are based on them seeing the prize money for GSL and not even taking into account the season finals or the minimum amount they would win. They all seem to be "Oh crap, I got this on my phone and then responded via twitter after reading the amounts listen in my twitter feed. Let me respond instantly, because twitter is already open and its easy."
I'd say that's a bad assumption because these are professional players and coaches. We should give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually took the time to research the announcements and tournament structure.
I don't really give complaining on the internet the benefit of the doubt. Whining to your followers on twitter is pretty unprofessional in general and I don't really take a lot of the complaints seriously. A lot of these folks are very young and do dumb stuff in interviews. Look at Teaja's interview where he stated he hated Blizzard. Kennigit was talking openly talking about how that was bad PR that Liquid shouldn't have on twitter.
There is the potential for the best player in the GSL to win a lot of money per season, even if the GSL finals are not where that happens. And even if they don't win everything they still take home a large amount of money. The complaining seems silly or based on first glance.
What do you not get about this? Probability of two events happening together is always less than one event happening, ergo probability of winning GSL and season finals is less than probability of winning GSL alone, which means that the chances of getting 50k are now lower than they were before, even if you're a championship contender. What is so hard to understand about this? This is 100% bad news for Koreans interested in prize money. Period.
It's also a high probability of placing highly in a tournament with 5 Koreans, 5 Americans, and 5 Europeans assuming that Koreans are actually better than the Americans and Europeans. The GSL champion might not win the whole tournament, but he is almost guaranteed to take down an extra $7,500 and will likely win more. Yes, this is a probabilistic exercise, but I'm sure that the expected value of the GSL champion's winnings are approximately equal to what it was before.
Probability is still less. And I'm not just saying that. It's a fact. If probability of winning GSL is 1/x and probability of coming Y place in seasonal finals is 1/y, then probability of both happening together is 1/x * 1/y . Even if the probabilities are extremely high, it's still less than 1/x or 1/y individually.
The first prize for GSL Code S is ~46k. In order to make near that much, a winner of Code S now needs to come at least 2nd in the seasonal finals. That is far from guaranteed and far from easy, even if there are Europeans/Americans in the bracket. There are still 4 other top Koreans who can trade games with you on any day of the week.
It's the expected value. So the calculation is more like this:
So it's assume that that a GSL champion has a 1/5th chance of winning, a 25% chance of 2nd, a 25% chance of 3-4th, a 20% chance of 5-8, and a 10% chance of 9-16th.
The expected winning is $11,500. Still not as much as a traditional GSL, but it's the only place that fares worse than in the previous system.
The winner faring worse is a pretty big deal. Further, WCS is supposed to be an improvement to the scene, not a tradeoff. This just feels like redistributing funds rather than actually injecting anything new into the scene. That's why people are angry.
I thought we all knew this is the way it was going to be. As in we knew there would be less money for the Korean leagues as Blizzard took over and Koreans would flock to other Prelims. Not like we aren't familiar with how Blizzard operates. We've seen it ourselves. ;/
On April 18 2013 03:44 Canucklehead wrote: This is like tennis paying out the same prize pool for winning a random tennis tournament and winning wimbledon or golf paying the same for a lesser golf tourney and the masters. Makes no sense, other than affirmative action for foreigners and giving them charity money.
There's not affirmative action for foreigners. Everyone is free to enter whatever system they want. Koreans are entering both the NA and EU leagues. In fact, the entire point of this (as said by Blizzard in interviews) is to have the Koreans actually enter the foreign scene and take their infrastructure with them as they move abroad.
On April 18 2013 03:44 Canucklehead wrote: This is like tennis paying out the same prize pool for winning a random tennis tournament and winning wimbledon or golf paying the same for a lesser golf tourney and the masters. Makes no sense, other than affirmative action for foreigners and giving them charity money.
There's not affirmative action for foreigners. Everyone is free to enter whatever system they want. Koreans are entering both the NA and EU leagues. In fact, the entire point of this (as said by Blizzard in interviews) is to have the Koreans actually enter the foreign scene and take their infrastructure with them as they move abroad.
Quite, people want to complain that Blizzard isn't dumping money into Korea for being so good at SC2. That's how you grow support for it world wide, make sure the region that is the strongest is stronger and force the other regions to catch up. No regional leagues for anyone, just tickets for flights to Korea for players so they can practice.
On April 18 2013 03:44 Canucklehead wrote: This is like tennis paying out the same prize pool for winning a random tennis tournament and winning wimbledon or golf paying the same for a lesser golf tourney and the masters. Makes no sense, other than affirmative action for foreigners and giving them charity money.
There's not affirmative action for foreigners. Everyone is free to enter whatever system they want. Koreans are entering both the NA and EU leagues. In fact, the entire point of this (as said by Blizzard in interviews) is to have the Koreans actually enter the foreign scene and take their infrastructure with them as they move abroad.
There is affirmative action. Koreans aren't free to go where they want, only those on foreigner teams can afford to for the most part.
Not to mention 24 players were seeded directly into the premiere leagues, and the majority of seeds were given to non-koreans. People like hellokitty and maker got seeds over much much better Korean players. If that isn't affirmative action, I don't know what is.
On April 18 2013 03:44 Canucklehead wrote: This is like tennis paying out the same prize pool for winning a random tennis tournament and winning wimbledon or golf paying the same for a lesser golf tourney and the masters. Makes no sense, other than affirmative action for foreigners and giving them charity money.
There's not affirmative action for foreigners. Everyone is free to enter whatever system they want. Koreans are entering both the NA and EU leagues. In fact, the entire point of this (as said by Blizzard in interviews) is to have the Koreans actually enter the foreign scene and take their infrastructure with them as they move abroad.
There is affirmative action. Koreans aren't free to go where they want, only those on foreigner teams can afford to for the most part.
Not to mention 24 players were seeded directly into the premiere leagues, and the majority of seeds were given to non-koreans. People like hellokitty and maker got seeds over much much better Korean players. If that isn't affirmative action, I don't know what is.
Why do we care what teams and afford can and can't afford? And if we are going to talk about affirmative action, lets talk about the Kespa and ESF only brackets for MLG qualifiers to assure they can bypass the open bracket. And lets make sure they only play against their own group, because it would be unfair if Kespa players were eliminated by ESF players. Because we can't have Flash going through the open bracket like Violet and Polt, that would be to taxing on him.
There is enough BS seeds and special brackets for Korean players in the past for NA leagues. Heave forbid that one NA league provide some level of support for people in their own region.
EPT
