On April 12 2013 15:39 Sedzz wrote: I understand how PL format gives players more of an opportunity to play, but having a best of 7 AK format means that it's relatively the same thing is it not? Sure you don't have a dedicated ace match, but there's still the potential of a variety pf different players to play and 4-0's happen in both formats regardless.
Plus AK is far more exciting I would think in almost everyone's books
Allkill is 5-8 players. Proleague is 8-14.
I'm curious in the history of broodwar did anyone actually play 14 players? It would be both teams using aces that weren't in the original lineups.
That's true. Personally I like the way it is now, good mix-up. If its currently 4 PL 2 WL maybe they could trial 3PL 3 WL?
On April 12 2013 15:07 Pursuit_ wrote: Personally I prefer the Proleague format, it rewards having a deep line-up and allows for map specific strategies. It also allows for less orthodox maps in the map pool, which can create interesting games.
## this.
I also think its necessary that a lot of players get exposure. Just remember when PL cut the format from 7 to 5 games? there were lots of ppl resigning cause they didnt see thenmself getting into the lineup consistently. Perfective : (((((((
In PL the better team with the better lineup and the better strategies is winning while in AK its more about having 1-2 very good players. I am a lot more excited for the PL format - I dont evven watch AK tournaments because it annoys the hell out of me to see teams with 1-2 good players dominating and winning the whole league. Just remember the days with Team MVP and DRG. They never got more than 1#-2 maps until DRG showed up as the ace and won the whole thing. It just didnt feel as if MVP deserved it. It was more about being a non-teamleague which was always won by DRG. (and he deserved it!).
I disagree with the all-kill format being better for the viewers. Because they WONT see the start player, since they get sent out as Ace(last).
And with a sucky format like a bo7 all-kill like the GSTL is using for the group play it favors the more top heavy teams. Bo9 is were it should be with an all-kill imo, then we get to see a much more strategic set of play.
But all in all, I would much prefer changing the format for each round for PL. Since I love both formats.
Edit: Pursuit_ wrote brings up a good point with the maps. The PL format favors putting in new maps and testing them out for balance. Since it's up for the teams to decide what player and race to put out on the map.
I like AK bo9 > PL format > AK bo7. I prefer the team strategy used in AK more than PL. PL is a lot of guess work and meta gaming and there is no decisive decisions needed to be made beyond who will play ace. Whereas AK you can use prepared snipers (if a certain player comes out or starter loses), map elimination and try to force out particular players to weaken a team. Though I say I like AK bo9 more, it's only by a little bit compared to PL format. I really dislike bo7 All-kill though.
If not for the constant mirrors, I'd actually be fine with mostly PL format. Winners league is fun to see though when it does come around...and you see some teams that do badly in PL format come out on top in winners.
I prefer the standard Proleague format by far but it's probably good to have a little bit of the Winner's Format. If you only have Winner's Format in place, It's a lot harder for those "hard working" up and coming players to get the TV exposure they need to get used to the whole deal and also to make any fans and I don't think that helps player versatility or the scene in general. It's nice to see fresh blood now and then. I think the mirror match-ups are improving in HotS and plenty of great games involve at least one non-star player who is still likely part of the A-team but would only be used as something like a fourth choice in a Winner's Format. I think it's more exciting to see the "big" players play sometimes and even more often but not so, so much more often, otherwise it just becomes --- Person A: "Oh hey, did you see the game between Flash and Jaedong last week?" Person B: "Hmm? You mean on Saturday or on Monday's Proleague? Which?" Person A: "No, it was in one of their two show-matches that week" Person B: "Ohh, the IPL one?" Person A: "Well, it's Blizzard's now after all, so whatever they're calling it. Still IPL? I've forgotten. AGAIN."
Oh dear. --- Besides which, it's good for the star players to get a rest more often. It's good if they don't ALWAYS have the responsibility of going first in the format, it is nice for them to be able to rest more and nice to give them more time to prepare for specific matches, even if only by practising on the map. Do people really want what happened to Jaedong at Hwaseung Oz to happen to more players more often? KT FlashIsTired incoming.
On April 12 2013 14:47 Evil_Sheep wrote: Proleague format is boring: endless mirror matches and a lot of subpar matches. With the current format, teams have to field 6 players each match which means teams need at least 8-9 players for sufficient depth, if not more. The result is a lot of low quality matches between b-teamers, or mismatches between aces and b-teamers.
All-kill format is better, but I think what might be even better is a hybrid format: first 3 matches in proleague format with loser's map pick to pre-empt all the mirror matching, the next 3 in all-kill format, and the last being an ace match. This means we'd get to watch more ace-quality games without completely giving up the unique proleague format which does enable the players to get guaranteed games.
Examples of all these b-teamers playing in Proleague?
I could name names but honestly it would just lead to an off-topic debate. The point is there are obviously b-teamers playing in proleague just like every other league b/c most players can't be Flash or Rain.
I like the Proleague format because it's very different from every other team league and I get to see a wider variety of players.
I guess every sport goes through this as a growing pain of whether it's better for the fans to have a few big stars or a lot of good players. You can name examples where it's better to have a few big stars (i.e. golf, most Olympic events) and examples where it has made things stagnant (i.e. men's tennis, basketball). You can name examples where it's better to have a wide variety of pretty good players (i.e. American football) and examples where it's destabilizing to have few distinct stars (i.e. women's tennis, baseball).
I like the variety but I prefer more proleague format than winner's league.
I watched a lot of GSTL, and AKs usually aren't that exciting (unless NS Hoseo is doing it with <insert unknown player that came out of no where and starts to own> of course (which happened a lot when NS Hoseo first came into GSTL, a lot of players like Seal and Sage performed well there)). (Somehow NS Hoseo was almost unstoppable when they first debuted, and that was definitely one of the most fun I had watching GSTL.)
Besides the possibility of an unknown player coming out of no where and destroying an entire team that was "favorite" to win (and "only" if they do it consistently like with NS Hoseo in the first season which was the underdog but dominated the group stages, but sadly lost in the play offs), I prefer Proleague format because you depend on more players and it's more exciting to see how certain players progress or get better.
With EGTL for example, if one player carried the team, that wouldn't be as fun as everyone putting their weight into it right?
Yes, Winner's format also has the "potential" for all players to contribute to the team but Proleague's format guarantees it.
Though, the appeal of Winner's format is to see how much a player can completely own everything up. That is the one advantage over Proleague format (but it can get old and sometimes it feels too random, especially when one player manages to completely 4-0 a team one day, but then lose on the first game another day).
On April 12 2013 14:47 Evil_Sheep wrote: Proleague format is boring: endless mirror matches and a lot of subpar matches. With the current format, teams have to field 6 players each match which means teams need at least 8-9 players for sufficient depth, if not more. The result is a lot of low quality matches between b-teamers, or mismatches between aces and b-teamers.
All-kill format is better, but I think what might be even better is a hybrid format: first 3 matches in proleague format with loser's map pick to pre-empt all the mirror matching, the next 3 in all-kill format, and the last being an ace match. This means we'd get to watch more ace-quality games without completely giving up the unique proleague format which does enable the players to get guaranteed games.
Examples of all these b-teamers playing in Proleague?
EPT
