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On April 10 2013 22:21 CoR wrote:about the olympic guys "you not watch them for blabla you watch them for best games you make me sick etc" i dont find it to quote ^^ NO! i watch it to see germans win  and so alot watch sc2 to see foreigns or their homeland guys win, i rly no care good games from koreans in europe i want GERMANS to win, in sport everyone is a nationalist for sure and in esport why it have to be different ? its a bit i also like EVERY european win
Maybe because SC2 doesnt have the tradition that established sports have and grew as a global thing that we were all exposed to since the beginning?
It hurts to see so many people speaking for 'everyone' or 'we', not all SC2 fans think the same way and our preferences are very different. I for one don't care AT ALL about the foreign scene and the the average EU/NA player seems less interesting than the shyest korean for me. It just sucks that GSL won't have MVP and Jaedong now.
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Think Korea just colonized NA! :D
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On April 10 2013 22:16 Sok4R wrote:
Just to get it straight: All those player attend the WCS NA/EU qualifiers instead of the korean ones?
That would be so ridicilous. Like the "North American Star League" with 15 koreans and one european. This way, the whole WCS will be an korean affair and my interest in it immediatly vanished. I don't have anything against korean players, but for me it is just natural to root for players from my country or at least continent.
No, no, not all of them attend the qualifiers. About half of the players listed will get seeded into the premier divisions in NA and some in EU.
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MVP ON EU SERVER?!?!?
*hides under the duvet - >>trembles<<*
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It seems like Blizzard's WCS system has completely backfired on them.
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On April 10 2013 22:21 Thor.Rush wrote:
Why do you think there's so many more Koreans going to USA than EU? USA has a serious lack of talent. NA will be more interesting to watch now.
The koreans are going there because 16 of the 24 invites are going to the NA region. Blame blizzard for the horrible setup.
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On April 10 2013 22:26 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:22 Serimek wrote:On April 10 2013 22:09 ZenithM wrote:On April 10 2013 22:07 Champloo wrote:
This is so stupid, why didn't they just make it based on nationality like the last WCS?
At least Europe will have mainly European players in it, but NA is not even worth watching for me now, and I would definitely be pissed if I was a NA pro player. There are no true NA pro players, that's the problem. Semi-pros at best, but most of them are still studying or working part-time or something. What about HuK, GosWser, Scarlett or IdrA ? They are legitimate pro-players who are all-in in their respective e-sport careers. Yeah well. Either they're EG (and we all know what IdrA is worth as far as progaming is concerned nowadays), or they're not NA based. There are no true NA proteams.
Now we agree
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Whether you agree or not with non Koreans being noobs and not deserving a shot at "free money," you'd have to be completely devoid of common sense or utterly blinded by short term greed to justify this. You could say if all of the NBA players decided to start playing pro ball in China, the Chinese scene would be fucked because everyone would stop playing. Guess what, every team in the Chinese league but one, allows a max of 2 foreigners per team.
There is no league stupid enough to jeopardize its scene/foundation over a few extra bucks in the short term. Instead, they're going to find a way to benefit the league by only allowing the best foreigners to compete in it; while, at the same time, keeping their existing players happy and having jobs: maybe revenue goes up and the Chinese players end up seeing bigger salaries as a result.
You don't achieve having a stable industry by having the random element of -- well, you have a job this year, but... 100 more Koreans might be in your region next year, so you better find a way to practice 30 hours a day to make up for the deficit in skill. Get fucked if you don't. But... again, since we don't have any regulations... you should consult your magic 8 ball to see whether next year will make sense for you to play or not.
I'm tired of hearing about this or talking about it. This isn't even worthy of discussion. It makes us seem lower than other animals. Like we really have to discuss this? This is a real hard one. It's pathetic.
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More Koreans are going for NA cause online qualifications are actually (barely but they are) playable from korea. RU to Korea pings are like 2 times NA to Korea + EG got their team hose in US
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Why is there a separation into different regions anyways? Just look past the boundaries and cheer for players or teams instead! As a proud member of the internet generation I don't understand all of this. Does Blizzard want us to cheer for our respective regions? I am from Germany but I will be so watching/cheering for the South Koreans. This whole thing is honestly thoroughly really confusing to me.
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On April 10 2013 22:27 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:16 Sok4R wrote:
Just to get it straight: All those player attend the WCS NA/EU qualifiers instead of the korean ones?
That would be so ridicilous. Like the "North American Star League" with 15 koreans and one european. This way, the whole WCS will be an korean affair and my interest in it immediatly vanished. I don't have anything against korean players, but for me it is just natural to root for players from my country or at least continent. No, no, not all of them attend the qualifiers. About half of the players listed will get seeded into the premier divisions in NA and some in EU.
That is the best part, that they are getting seeded into the event. Talk about charity seeds. Couldn't qualify for GSL, well lucky for you we have this NA event we are running where you can win some money.
They should have released all the seeded players so we can at least see who the NA players are in the league, rather than guessing.
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RIP korean scene. So what happens to proleague and stuff like that? I guess it doesn't really matter considering WCS NA and EU are just weekend tourneys... so are these guys basically just going to be living in Korea playing in the proleague/gstl, playing online for qualifiers and shi' and then just flying out there for a weekend?
Soooo essentially all we're going to get is the EXACT same thing we had before (weekend MLG/IEM tournaments full of koreans, which I liked sure, but i thought WCS wanted to go away from that?), except the only change is that GSL/OSL is going to be SEVERELY weaker now, losing many of their regulars
Please explain to me how any of this makes sense
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On April 10 2013 22:13 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:07 DusTerr wrote:On April 10 2013 22:03 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:59 oxxo wrote:On April 10 2013 21:55 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:52 DusTerr wrote:On April 10 2013 21:25 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:19 arkedos wrote:On April 10 2013 21:12 Benjamin99 wrote:
Actually the more I think about the more I think its a good idea if the NA players who live in NA should just boycott the NA WSC to send a clear message to blizzard and reveal that they are only bitchy and cocky because they dont get the money? You can already observe this behaviour in a nut shell when you take a look at the EG house. I mean they have a team house but instead of practising together, sharing builds and work like a team, they are just streaming for themselves over VERY VERY long periods of the day (well which is fine for itself because in that way they can make some money maybe to help to maintain the teamhouse) and it seems that they got a really poor atmosphere at the teamhouse. Stephano once said on his stream: "I whish I had friends on the US that I can practice with". I mean: HELLO you are in a TEAMhouse ? Shouldnt he practice with his TEAMmates? I Like the Idea of EG having a house where players live together but they are not using this infrastructure they have set up. Its nothing near effective like the Korean team houses. This got nothing to do with money but everything to do with the growth of the NA scene. The NA is dead if this is going to happen. And I don't think you or I is in a position to talk about EG and there social well-being as a team. So the NA scene got to make a choice they can either go with it and try to compete but will fail and eventually die out since no sponsors or teams will be interested in NA players. Or they can fight this and simply boycot it to force blizzard to make changes so it require residency to play in the NA WCS On April 10 2013 21:24 Novacute wrote:
At least we'll get great games in ALL qualifiers now. Who gives a shit really. You don't watch the Olympics because the best teams and players are not there in there respective sports?? People with you attitude makes me sick. This is good for the NA scene. Sponsors want exposure. This will bring more exposure. (We're not going to see BW 2.0 because the tournaments are much more accessible to fans in multiple regions.) This isn't the Olympics. Do you think more people watch the world series or the world baseball classic? Good for the NA scene really? Please tell me you trolling or kidding?. You will not find a single NA player who think this is good for the NA scene I can promise you that Only if they just want easy competition/money. It's good for the NA scene in the long run to have actual competition. You post is preposterous. You are simply clueless. This got nothing to do with easy money. This is basically a death stroke to any NA player or any future talent from NA. I expect many NA teams will also avoid sc2. No Sponsors or teams will pay a dime to any NA player simply because the investment is not worth it. Sponsors and teams wants exposure And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans? There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans. And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS. Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong.
Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers. Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU
One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players.
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So, NA is just Korea2. Whatever.
Honestly, I was looking forward to getting to watch NA semipros duke it out in a sandbox, which I could then augment with GSL/Korean WCS for true top level play (except Scarlett and Nani of course <3)
I really have no desire to watch Koreans beat up on foreigners any more, but this may have the unforeseen benefit of being able to watch top Koreans at a reasonable hour for Westerners.
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On April 10 2013 22:29 playa wrote:
Whether you agree or not with non Koreans being noobs and not deserving a shot at "free money," you'd have to be completely devoid of common sense or utterly blinded by short term greed to justify this. You could say if all of the NBA players decided to start playing pro ball in China, the Chinese scene would be fucked because everyone would stop playing. Guess what, every team in the Chinese league but one, allows a max of 2 foreigners per team.
There is no league stupid enough to jeopardize its scene/foundation over a few extra bucks in the short term. Instead, they're going to find a way to benefit the league by only allowing the best foreigners to compete in it; while, at the same time, keeping their existing players happy and having jobs: maybe revenue goes up and the Chinese players end up seeing bigger salaries as a result.
You don't achieve having a stable industry by having the random element of well you have a job this year, but... 100 more Koreans might be in your region next year, so you better find a way to practice 30 hours a day to make up for the deficit in skill. Get fucked if you don't. But... again, since we don't have any regulations... you should consult your magic 8 ball to see whether next year will make sense for you to play or not.
I'm tired of hearing about this or talking about it. This isn't even worthy of discussion. It makes us seem lower than other animals. Like we really have to discuss this? This is a real hard one. It's pathetic.
Good post playa
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wtf with this region mean nothing, it is not WCS NA. They should just region lock it or the NA scene will shrink rather then grow. People are already tired of watching korean vs korean everything and want some country/continent only tournaments.
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This is sad. If perchance we get mainstream coverage, imagine the lay people's reaction to seeing Koreans representing Europe and America.
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On April 10 2013 18:56 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 18:54 Qikz wrote:
The only thing is (TotalBiscuit if you read this)
Why are you sending the Axiom guys to the US and not Europe? The team has no connection to the EU, why would they?
I thought TotalBiscuit is from Europe.
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On April 10 2013 22:31 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:13 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 22:07 DusTerr wrote:On April 10 2013 22:03 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:59 oxxo wrote:On April 10 2013 21:55 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:52 DusTerr wrote:On April 10 2013 21:25 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:19 arkedos wrote:On April 10 2013 21:12 Benjamin99 wrote:
Actually the more I think about the more I think its a good idea if the NA players who live in NA should just boycott the NA WSC to send a clear message to blizzard and reveal that they are only bitchy and cocky because they dont get the money? You can already observe this behaviour in a nut shell when you take a look at the EG house. I mean they have a team house but instead of practising together, sharing builds and work like a team, they are just streaming for themselves over VERY VERY long periods of the day (well which is fine for itself because in that way they can make some money maybe to help to maintain the teamhouse) and it seems that they got a really poor atmosphere at the teamhouse. Stephano once said on his stream: "I whish I had friends on the US that I can practice with". I mean: HELLO you are in a TEAMhouse ? Shouldnt he practice with his TEAMmates? I Like the Idea of EG having a house where players live together but they are not using this infrastructure they have set up. Its nothing near effective like the Korean team houses. This got nothing to do with money but everything to do with the growth of the NA scene. The NA is dead if this is going to happen. And I don't think you or I is in a position to talk about EG and there social well-being as a team. So the NA scene got to make a choice they can either go with it and try to compete but will fail and eventually die out since no sponsors or teams will be interested in NA players. Or they can fight this and simply boycot it to force blizzard to make changes so it require residency to play in the NA WCS On April 10 2013 21:24 Novacute wrote:
At least we'll get great games in ALL qualifiers now. Who gives a shit really. You don't watch the Olympics because the best teams and players are not there in there respective sports?? People with you attitude makes me sick. This is good for the NA scene. Sponsors want exposure. This will bring more exposure. (We're not going to see BW 2.0 because the tournaments are much more accessible to fans in multiple regions.) This isn't the Olympics. Do you think more people watch the world series or the world baseball classic? Good for the NA scene really? Please tell me you trolling or kidding?. You will not find a single NA player who think this is good for the NA scene I can promise you that Only if they just want easy competition/money. It's good for the NA scene in the long run to have actual competition. You post is preposterous. You are simply clueless. This got nothing to do with easy money. This is basically a death stroke to any NA player or any future talent from NA. I expect many NA teams will also avoid sc2. No Sponsors or teams will pay a dime to any NA player simply because the investment is not worth it. Sponsors and teams wants exposure And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans? There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans. And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS. Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong.
Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers. Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players.
No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any.
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On April 10 2013 22:31 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:13 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 22:07 DusTerr wrote:On April 10 2013 22:03 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:59 oxxo wrote:On April 10 2013 21:55 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:52 DusTerr wrote:On April 10 2013 21:25 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:19 arkedos wrote:On April 10 2013 21:12 Benjamin99 wrote:
Actually the more I think about the more I think its a good idea if the NA players who live in NA should just boycott the NA WSC to send a clear message to blizzard and reveal that they are only bitchy and cocky because they dont get the money? You can already observe this behaviour in a nut shell when you take a look at the EG house. I mean they have a team house but instead of practising together, sharing builds and work like a team, they are just streaming for themselves over VERY VERY long periods of the day (well which is fine for itself because in that way they can make some money maybe to help to maintain the teamhouse) and it seems that they got a really poor atmosphere at the teamhouse. Stephano once said on his stream: "I whish I had friends on the US that I can practice with". I mean: HELLO you are in a TEAMhouse ? Shouldnt he practice with his TEAMmates? I Like the Idea of EG having a house where players live together but they are not using this infrastructure they have set up. Its nothing near effective like the Korean team houses. This got nothing to do with money but everything to do with the growth of the NA scene. The NA is dead if this is going to happen. And I don't think you or I is in a position to talk about EG and there social well-being as a team. So the NA scene got to make a choice they can either go with it and try to compete but will fail and eventually die out since no sponsors or teams will be interested in NA players. Or they can fight this and simply boycot it to force blizzard to make changes so it require residency to play in the NA WCS On April 10 2013 21:24 Novacute wrote:
At least we'll get great games in ALL qualifiers now. Who gives a shit really. You don't watch the Olympics because the best teams and players are not there in there respective sports?? People with you attitude makes me sick. This is good for the NA scene. Sponsors want exposure. This will bring more exposure. (We're not going to see BW 2.0 because the tournaments are much more accessible to fans in multiple regions.) This isn't the Olympics. Do you think more people watch the world series or the world baseball classic? Good for the NA scene really? Please tell me you trolling or kidding?. You will not find a single NA player who think this is good for the NA scene I can promise you that Only if they just want easy competition/money. It's good for the NA scene in the long run to have actual competition. You post is preposterous. You are simply clueless. This got nothing to do with easy money. This is basically a death stroke to any NA player or any future talent from NA. I expect many NA teams will also avoid sc2. No Sponsors or teams will pay a dime to any NA player simply because the investment is not worth it. Sponsors and teams wants exposure And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans? There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans. And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS. Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong.
Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers. Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players.
Is the only tournament we can actually use since there has been almost no tournaments with only foreigners since IPL 1 and 2 and they were online and very popular. WCS NA was played at the same time as MLG and you cant really use that dataset. And NASL 2 lack of viewers had more to do with the production quality and the bad reputation from season 1 then the players.
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EPT
