|
On April 10 2013 22:07 Champloo wrote:
This is so stupid, why didn't they just make it based on nationality like the last WCS?
At least Europe will have mainly European players in it, but NA is not even worth watching for me now, and I would definitely be pissed if I was a NA pro player.
There are no true NA pro players, that's the problem.
Semi-pros at best, but most of them are still studying or working part-time or something.
|
On April 10 2013 22:05 dtz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 21:57 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:56 dtz wrote:On April 10 2013 21:41 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:34 dtz wrote:On April 10 2013 21:23 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:17 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:13 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:
No my analogy is to explain why I have little sympathy for someone who doesn't succeed because of outside factors like money. It's basically me telling you and everyone else that the "Oh these poor NA players!" or any other emotional argument isn't going to work on me. I work too goddamn hard at a job I don't really like to barely make ends meet to be moved by someone who *gasp* might have to do the same.
The real argument is that this will actually be better for prospective foreign players anyway. Either they work out a way to make it, or they fall away. Those who make it will be that much stronger and more worthy, and their success will mean that much more. Those who don't make it will have tried and failed, and learned something valuable in the process. It will be painful, it will be unpleasant, but in the long term, it is the only legitimate way. reading your posts you seem to be of the thinking that; 1. Your life sucks, so everyone elses should 2. The BW scene that had basically no western followers is what sc2 should aim to be They both seem like pretty legit arguments. My life is amazing. I have so many opportunities that the vast majority of human beings will never have. I consider my job I don't really like to be a blessing. Untold millions would have killed to get a decent job that pays enough for them to live comfortably, if frugally. You're missing the point entirely. I would love to have a world where everybody succeeds at their dream. But that isn't the real world. Either you hand people success, and they never grow; or you force them to fight tooth and nail for success with the very real prospect of failure. Only in the second scenario can you separate the chaff from the wheat, so to speak. Only in the second scenario do people actually grow and learn something. I actually think the proposed region-locks would result in BW 2.0 before turning into something worse: a dead game and dead scene. How so? At the moment because of BW the Korean scene is insane, everything is centered on Seoul the infrastructure is insane, they have coaches lots of team houses all practicing and working together with there own domestic league where they all play and practice for. Outside of Korea there isn't any of that because the rest of the world is pretty big, and so you instead have random team houses here and there with no real relation to anything in particular and little to no infrastructure. Most non-Korean pro's don't live in team houses and don't have access to the environment Korean players do. By allowing Koreans to play in the WSC outside of Korean your killing any chance of that infrastructure to be built up meaning that foreigners for the most part have no realistic chance of being able to compete with Koreans. You should read Catz post if you havn't already, it really highlights everything that is fundamentally wrong with how this is going. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1c1slt/my_views_on_wcsregional_based_leagues_region/If they allowed region locks, you would still have Koreans coming out of Korean for 'easy' money in tournaments etc and the GSL/Pro League would still be the highest level, but it would give the rest of the world the chance to catch up The Koreans who go to NA/EU will play online with significant lag though. And for those going to EU, they will move there i am pretty sure. Or at least RO16 onwards. They will leave their infrastructure benefits behind and will go to teamhouses in NA/EU. They have no coaches, they will experience cultural shock much like what foreigners experienced in Korea, they will be so tired due to jetlag and travels, etc. The Koreans can transfer their skill and expertise to NA/EU teams who want to build the infrastructure in NA/EU. Additionally, maybe the NA/EU upstarts can't hope to beat MC/MVP in prime condition. but a jetlagged, cultureshocked, coach-less, teamhouse-less MC and MVP? If you want any hope to become good at least you should aim to beat that. I think the goal is to accelerate the growth of Pro Scene in NA and EU. Kinda like how developing countries invite MNCs to set up factories and initiate technological transfer. How MLS invite Beckham / Henry to raise the profile of the local scene and improve the quality of the league. It all depends on how the local scene responds though. If they see it as an opportunity and rise up to the challenge, this can turn out good. If they gave up and saw Koreans as some insurmountable barriers and decided to just rely on streaming income then well it's bad. Yeah I can see what you mean, but if they do move there and set up a house there, those players are already better than EU/NA players.. so even if what you says happen the EU and NA players and teams still wont get much chance to win that money in order to 'even the keel' so it wouldn't really encourage growth because the team owners/managers wouldn't see any benefit from setting up a house (with all the cost that is involved) when there is little chance of them making any money back. If Koreans weren't allowed to compete it would grantee that money to EU/NA teams allowing them to set up houses and grow mini Seoul's in NA and EU over the next few years. Which then allows the EU/NA scenes to actually be comparable to Koreans who aren't simply born better at Starcraft That's the ideal situation though. But actually what a lot of people feared is that the EU/NA teams will be content to just win the regional WCS since its profitable and lucrative enough and don't bother trying to fight the Koreans since it's too difficult. The separation of scene creates even more inequality since there are no real incentive to improve. There needs to be external threat to push the existing foreigners out of the comfort scene imo. That's why Blizzard wants WCS to be the single most important storyline in WCS. They were not happy about last year how there were WCS Champions and there were GSL champions and so there is no concensus most succesful player of the year. With this format if you are in WCS, you are relevant, otherwise you are not. Yeah, ofc the teams will only want to focus on there own region to win that money... THATS what grows our scenes... if there is no money incentive for teams to exist and grow, whats the point? Well the focus is to challenge the Koreans and not just winning their own region.The money and incentive is there, it's just that EU/NA players have to work hard to earn it and not having it given to them on a silver platter. Anyway, with regards to my point earlier : Jos de Kroon @LiquidRet People seem to be very worried about Koreans playing in WCS NA/EU. I feel if they are gone from korea long enough, their advantages are gone So, if the infrastructure is the reason why Koreans are so successful, ultimately there is nothing to fear because they will be leaving their established infrastructure behind. if they want to build new team houses in NA/EU that's great because that will contribute to NA/EU E-sports infrastructure. I am sure some NA/EU progamers/team can learn from there. Again, the presence of Koreans should accelerate skill transfer and infrastructure building.
I totally agree with Ret there. But the problem with the NA scene is the Koreans don't have to move away form Korea to compete. If it required residency then its a hole different ball game and I'm all for it
|
On April 10 2013 22:06 Kylo55 wrote:
Well honestly i dont get this. This is jsut another SC2 tournament. Like 2 years ago there was no WCS. Now there is so whats the problem? They made another tournament, they are not closing MLG, Dreamhac, Homestory Cup. Any of this. So why you are whining? Blizzard never said that they are making the only one tournament that the players should play. The only think that may suffer from this is the number of GLS/OSL events, and thats it. But most of the whining ppl seems like they do not want to follow korean scene anyway.
People are whining because WCS is not just supposed to be "one more" tournament. It's supposed to be Blizzard's effort to grow e-sports in the world, to create an opportunity for smaller scenes to have their heroes, and their share of the spotlight. No region lock means only KRs get the spotlight.
Look, I'm all for having tournaments with the very best, but this isn't in the spirit that Blizzard conveyed when they talked about WCS. I think they'll change it for next seasons though, the reception is obviously not good and players are already "abusing the system" which was obviously going to happen.
|
Haha, this is wonderful!
Looking forward to GSL lineup at Blizzcon :D
|
On April 10 2013 22:07 DusTerr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:03 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:59 oxxo wrote:On April 10 2013 21:55 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:52 DusTerr wrote:On April 10 2013 21:25 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:19 arkedos wrote:On April 10 2013 21:12 Benjamin99 wrote:
Actually the more I think about the more I think its a good idea if the NA players who live in NA should just boycott the NA WSC to send a clear message to blizzard and reveal that they are only bitchy and cocky because they dont get the money? You can already observe this behaviour in a nut shell when you take a look at the EG house. I mean they have a team house but instead of practising together, sharing builds and work like a team, they are just streaming for themselves over VERY VERY long periods of the day (well which is fine for itself because in that way they can make some money maybe to help to maintain the teamhouse) and it seems that they got a really poor atmosphere at the teamhouse. Stephano once said on his stream: "I whish I had friends on the US that I can practice with". I mean: HELLO you are in a TEAMhouse ? Shouldnt he practice with his TEAMmates? I Like the Idea of EG having a house where players live together but they are not using this infrastructure they have set up. Its nothing near effective like the Korean team houses. This got nothing to do with money but everything to do with the growth of the NA scene. The NA is dead if this is going to happen. And I don't think you or I is in a position to talk about EG and there social well-being as a team. So the NA scene got to make a choice they can either go with it and try to compete but will fail and eventually die out since no sponsors or teams will be interested in NA players. Or they can fight this and simply boycot it to force blizzard to make changes so it require residency to play in the NA WCS On April 10 2013 21:24 Novacute wrote:
At least we'll get great games in ALL qualifiers now. Who gives a shit really. You don't watch the Olympics because the best teams and players are not there in there respective sports?? People with you attitude makes me sick. This is good for the NA scene. Sponsors want exposure. This will bring more exposure. (We're not going to see BW 2.0 because the tournaments are much more accessible to fans in multiple regions.) This isn't the Olympics. Do you think more people watch the world series or the world baseball classic? Good for the NA scene really? Please tell me you trolling or kidding?. You will not find a single NA player who think this is good for the NA scene I can promise you that Only if they just want easy competition/money. It's good for the NA scene in the long run to have actual competition. You post is preposterous. You are simply clueless. This got nothing to do with easy money. This is basically a death stroke to any NA player or any future talent from NA. I expect many NA teams will also avoid sc2. No Sponsors or teams will pay a dime to any NA player simply because the investment is not worth it. Sponsors and teams wants exposure And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans? There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans.
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong.
|
Too me, this will just make NA more interesting, have better games, and will help the NA pros improve by having more koreans around to practice against. Sure, the NA pros won't win much, but I don't think they deserve to if they aren't the best.
|
On April 10 2013 22:07 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:05 dtz wrote:On April 10 2013 21:57 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:56 dtz wrote:On April 10 2013 21:41 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:34 dtz wrote:On April 10 2013 21:23 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:17 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:13 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:
No my analogy is to explain why I have little sympathy for someone who doesn't succeed because of outside factors like money. It's basically me telling you and everyone else that the "Oh these poor NA players!" or any other emotional argument isn't going to work on me. I work too goddamn hard at a job I don't really like to barely make ends meet to be moved by someone who *gasp* might have to do the same.
The real argument is that this will actually be better for prospective foreign players anyway. Either they work out a way to make it, or they fall away. Those who make it will be that much stronger and more worthy, and their success will mean that much more. Those who don't make it will have tried and failed, and learned something valuable in the process. It will be painful, it will be unpleasant, but in the long term, it is the only legitimate way. reading your posts you seem to be of the thinking that; 1. Your life sucks, so everyone elses should 2. The BW scene that had basically no western followers is what sc2 should aim to be They both seem like pretty legit arguments. My life is amazing. I have so many opportunities that the vast majority of human beings will never have. I consider my job I don't really like to be a blessing. Untold millions would have killed to get a decent job that pays enough for them to live comfortably, if frugally. You're missing the point entirely. I would love to have a world where everybody succeeds at their dream. But that isn't the real world. Either you hand people success, and they never grow; or you force them to fight tooth and nail for success with the very real prospect of failure. Only in the second scenario can you separate the chaff from the wheat, so to speak. Only in the second scenario do people actually grow and learn something. I actually think the proposed region-locks would result in BW 2.0 before turning into something worse: a dead game and dead scene. How so? At the moment because of BW the Korean scene is insane, everything is centered on Seoul the infrastructure is insane, they have coaches lots of team houses all practicing and working together with there own domestic league where they all play and practice for. Outside of Korea there isn't any of that because the rest of the world is pretty big, and so you instead have random team houses here and there with no real relation to anything in particular and little to no infrastructure. Most non-Korean pro's don't live in team houses and don't have access to the environment Korean players do. By allowing Koreans to play in the WSC outside of Korean your killing any chance of that infrastructure to be built up meaning that foreigners for the most part have no realistic chance of being able to compete with Koreans. You should read Catz post if you havn't already, it really highlights everything that is fundamentally wrong with how this is going. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1c1slt/my_views_on_wcsregional_based_leagues_region/If they allowed region locks, you would still have Koreans coming out of Korean for 'easy' money in tournaments etc and the GSL/Pro League would still be the highest level, but it would give the rest of the world the chance to catch up The Koreans who go to NA/EU will play online with significant lag though. And for those going to EU, they will move there i am pretty sure. Or at least RO16 onwards. They will leave their infrastructure benefits behind and will go to teamhouses in NA/EU. They have no coaches, they will experience cultural shock much like what foreigners experienced in Korea, they will be so tired due to jetlag and travels, etc. The Koreans can transfer their skill and expertise to NA/EU teams who want to build the infrastructure in NA/EU. Additionally, maybe the NA/EU upstarts can't hope to beat MC/MVP in prime condition. but a jetlagged, cultureshocked, coach-less, teamhouse-less MC and MVP? If you want any hope to become good at least you should aim to beat that. I think the goal is to accelerate the growth of Pro Scene in NA and EU. Kinda like how developing countries invite MNCs to set up factories and initiate technological transfer. How MLS invite Beckham / Henry to raise the profile of the local scene and improve the quality of the league. It all depends on how the local scene responds though. If they see it as an opportunity and rise up to the challenge, this can turn out good. If they gave up and saw Koreans as some insurmountable barriers and decided to just rely on streaming income then well it's bad. Yeah I can see what you mean, but if they do move there and set up a house there, those players are already better than EU/NA players.. so even if what you says happen the EU and NA players and teams still wont get much chance to win that money in order to 'even the keel' so it wouldn't really encourage growth because the team owners/managers wouldn't see any benefit from setting up a house (with all the cost that is involved) when there is little chance of them making any money back. If Koreans weren't allowed to compete it would grantee that money to EU/NA teams allowing them to set up houses and grow mini Seoul's in NA and EU over the next few years. Which then allows the EU/NA scenes to actually be comparable to Koreans who aren't simply born better at Starcraft That's the ideal situation though. But actually what a lot of people feared is that the EU/NA teams will be content to just win the regional WCS since its profitable and lucrative enough and don't bother trying to fight the Koreans since it's too difficult. The separation of scene creates even more inequality since there are no real incentive to improve. There needs to be external threat to push the existing foreigners out of the comfort scene imo. That's why Blizzard wants WCS to be the single most important storyline in WCS. They were not happy about last year how there were WCS Champions and there were GSL champions and so there is no concensus most succesful player of the year. With this format if you are in WCS, you are relevant, otherwise you are not. Yeah, ofc the teams will only want to focus on there own region to win that money... THATS what grows our scenes... if there is no money incentive for teams to exist and grow, whats the point? Well the focus is to challenge the Koreans not just winning their own region.The money and incentive is there, it's just the EU/NA has to work hard to earn it and not just getting it on a silver platter. Anyway, with regards to my point earlier : https://twitter.com/LiquidRet/status/321917949332033537Jos de Kroon @LiquidRet People seem to be very worried about Koreans playing in WCS NA/EU. I feel if they are gone from korea long enough, their advantages are gone So, if the infrastructure is the reason why Koreans are so successful, ultimately there is nothing to fear because they will be leaving their established infrastructure behind. if they want to build new team houses in NA/EU that's great because that will contribute to NA/EU E-sports infrastructure. I am sure some NA/EU progamers/team can learn from there. Again, the presence of Koreans should accelerate skill transfer and infrastructure building. What makes you think they will leave their established infrastructure ? That's the whole point, that they are not going to move outside except to play the one weekend deal. And this is speaking about the NA scene exclusively.
I think at least in EU they definitely will. The lag is simple too great. And IM/SK would probably have their own teamhouse. Acer is a European Team. ForGG is in Europe as well.
For NA, the Koreans playing there are from foreign teams. Maybe at first they won't because they want to finish GSTL/PL but eventually i think they will because the stake is just too high. How can they fight against those based in US like Polt if they play with delay from KR. And liquid,EG, axiom,coL can easily provide teamhouses for their players in the US.
Simply put, they will need to move eventually because under this new system, WCS is everything and it is logical to do everything you can to maximize your chances of doing better in WCS.
|
On April 10 2013 22:10 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:05 dtz wrote:On April 10 2013 21:57 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:56 dtz wrote:On April 10 2013 21:41 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:34 dtz wrote:On April 10 2013 21:23 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:17 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:13 baldgye wrote:On April 10 2013 21:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:
No my analogy is to explain why I have little sympathy for someone who doesn't succeed because of outside factors like money. It's basically me telling you and everyone else that the "Oh these poor NA players!" or any other emotional argument isn't going to work on me. I work too goddamn hard at a job I don't really like to barely make ends meet to be moved by someone who *gasp* might have to do the same.
The real argument is that this will actually be better for prospective foreign players anyway. Either they work out a way to make it, or they fall away. Those who make it will be that much stronger and more worthy, and their success will mean that much more. Those who don't make it will have tried and failed, and learned something valuable in the process. It will be painful, it will be unpleasant, but in the long term, it is the only legitimate way. reading your posts you seem to be of the thinking that; 1. Your life sucks, so everyone elses should 2. The BW scene that had basically no western followers is what sc2 should aim to be They both seem like pretty legit arguments. My life is amazing. I have so many opportunities that the vast majority of human beings will never have. I consider my job I don't really like to be a blessing. Untold millions would have killed to get a decent job that pays enough for them to live comfortably, if frugally. You're missing the point entirely. I would love to have a world where everybody succeeds at their dream. But that isn't the real world. Either you hand people success, and they never grow; or you force them to fight tooth and nail for success with the very real prospect of failure. Only in the second scenario can you separate the chaff from the wheat, so to speak. Only in the second scenario do people actually grow and learn something. I actually think the proposed region-locks would result in BW 2.0 before turning into something worse: a dead game and dead scene. How so? At the moment because of BW the Korean scene is insane, everything is centered on Seoul the infrastructure is insane, they have coaches lots of team houses all practicing and working together with there own domestic league where they all play and practice for. Outside of Korea there isn't any of that because the rest of the world is pretty big, and so you instead have random team houses here and there with no real relation to anything in particular and little to no infrastructure. Most non-Korean pro's don't live in team houses and don't have access to the environment Korean players do. By allowing Koreans to play in the WSC outside of Korean your killing any chance of that infrastructure to be built up meaning that foreigners for the most part have no realistic chance of being able to compete with Koreans. You should read Catz post if you havn't already, it really highlights everything that is fundamentally wrong with how this is going. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1c1slt/my_views_on_wcsregional_based_leagues_region/If they allowed region locks, you would still have Koreans coming out of Korean for 'easy' money in tournaments etc and the GSL/Pro League would still be the highest level, but it would give the rest of the world the chance to catch up The Koreans who go to NA/EU will play online with significant lag though. And for those going to EU, they will move there i am pretty sure. Or at least RO16 onwards. They will leave their infrastructure benefits behind and will go to teamhouses in NA/EU. They have no coaches, they will experience cultural shock much like what foreigners experienced in Korea, they will be so tired due to jetlag and travels, etc. The Koreans can transfer their skill and expertise to NA/EU teams who want to build the infrastructure in NA/EU. Additionally, maybe the NA/EU upstarts can't hope to beat MC/MVP in prime condition. but a jetlagged, cultureshocked, coach-less, teamhouse-less MC and MVP? If you want any hope to become good at least you should aim to beat that. I think the goal is to accelerate the growth of Pro Scene in NA and EU. Kinda like how developing countries invite MNCs to set up factories and initiate technological transfer. How MLS invite Beckham / Henry to raise the profile of the local scene and improve the quality of the league. It all depends on how the local scene responds though. If they see it as an opportunity and rise up to the challenge, this can turn out good. If they gave up and saw Koreans as some insurmountable barriers and decided to just rely on streaming income then well it's bad. Yeah I can see what you mean, but if they do move there and set up a house there, those players are already better than EU/NA players.. so even if what you says happen the EU and NA players and teams still wont get much chance to win that money in order to 'even the keel' so it wouldn't really encourage growth because the team owners/managers wouldn't see any benefit from setting up a house (with all the cost that is involved) when there is little chance of them making any money back. If Koreans weren't allowed to compete it would grantee that money to EU/NA teams allowing them to set up houses and grow mini Seoul's in NA and EU over the next few years. Which then allows the EU/NA scenes to actually be comparable to Koreans who aren't simply born better at Starcraft That's the ideal situation though. But actually what a lot of people feared is that the EU/NA teams will be content to just win the regional WCS since its profitable and lucrative enough and don't bother trying to fight the Koreans since it's too difficult. The separation of scene creates even more inequality since there are no real incentive to improve. There needs to be external threat to push the existing foreigners out of the comfort scene imo. That's why Blizzard wants WCS to be the single most important storyline in WCS. They were not happy about last year how there were WCS Champions and there were GSL champions and so there is no concensus most succesful player of the year. With this format if you are in WCS, you are relevant, otherwise you are not. Yeah, ofc the teams will only want to focus on there own region to win that money... THATS what grows our scenes... if there is no money incentive for teams to exist and grow, whats the point? Well the focus is to challenge the Koreans and not just winning their own region.The money and incentive is there, it's just that EU/NA players have to work hard to earn it and not having it given to them on a silver platter. Anyway, with regards to my point earlier : https://twitter.com/LiquidRet/status/321917949332033537Jos de Kroon @LiquidRet People seem to be very worried about Koreans playing in WCS NA/EU. I feel if they are gone from korea long enough, their advantages are gone So, if the infrastructure is the reason why Koreans are so successful, ultimately there is nothing to fear because they will be leaving their established infrastructure behind. if they want to build new team houses in NA/EU that's great because that will contribute to NA/EU E-sports infrastructure. I am sure some NA/EU progamers/team can learn from there. Again, the presence of Koreans should accelerate skill transfer and infrastructure building. I totally agree with Ret there. But the problem with the NA scene is the Koreans don't have to move away form Korea to compete. If it required residency then its a hole different ball game and I'm all for it
One the tournament goes off line, residency will be required by the fact that it is off line. Then, fewer Koreans.
|
On the other hand it could give some non-american viewership to WCS NA.
I wouldn't give a shit if it were only NA players, let's be honest :D
|
On April 10 2013 22:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:07 DusTerr wrote:On April 10 2013 22:03 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:59 oxxo wrote:On April 10 2013 21:55 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:52 DusTerr wrote:On April 10 2013 21:25 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:19 arkedos wrote:On April 10 2013 21:12 Benjamin99 wrote:
Actually the more I think about the more I think its a good idea if the NA players who live in NA should just boycott the NA WSC to send a clear message to blizzard and reveal that they are only bitchy and cocky because they dont get the money? You can already observe this behaviour in a nut shell when you take a look at the EG house. I mean they have a team house but instead of practising together, sharing builds and work like a team, they are just streaming for themselves over VERY VERY long periods of the day (well which is fine for itself because in that way they can make some money maybe to help to maintain the teamhouse) and it seems that they got a really poor atmosphere at the teamhouse. Stephano once said on his stream: "I whish I had friends on the US that I can practice with". I mean: HELLO you are in a TEAMhouse ? Shouldnt he practice with his TEAMmates? I Like the Idea of EG having a house where players live together but they are not using this infrastructure they have set up. Its nothing near effective like the Korean team houses. This got nothing to do with money but everything to do with the growth of the NA scene. The NA is dead if this is going to happen. And I don't think you or I is in a position to talk about EG and there social well-being as a team. So the NA scene got to make a choice they can either go with it and try to compete but will fail and eventually die out since no sponsors or teams will be interested in NA players. Or they can fight this and simply boycot it to force blizzard to make changes so it require residency to play in the NA WCS On April 10 2013 21:24 Novacute wrote:
At least we'll get great games in ALL qualifiers now. Who gives a shit really. You don't watch the Olympics because the best teams and players are not there in there respective sports?? People with you attitude makes me sick. This is good for the NA scene. Sponsors want exposure. This will bring more exposure. (We're not going to see BW 2.0 because the tournaments are much more accessible to fans in multiple regions.) This isn't the Olympics. Do you think more people watch the world series or the world baseball classic? Good for the NA scene really? Please tell me you trolling or kidding?. You will not find a single NA player who think this is good for the NA scene I can promise you that Only if they just want easy competition/money. It's good for the NA scene in the long run to have actual competition. You post is preposterous. You are simply clueless. This got nothing to do with easy money. This is basically a death stroke to any NA player or any future talent from NA. I expect many NA teams will also avoid sc2. No Sponsors or teams will pay a dime to any NA player simply because the investment is not worth it. Sponsors and teams wants exposure And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans? There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans. That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong.
Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers.
|
On April 10 2013 18:11 PulseKane wrote:
i'm gonna metagame the shit outta them and move to korea
Well played :D
|
On April 10 2013 22:07 DusTerr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:03 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:59 oxxo wrote:On April 10 2013 21:55 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:52 DusTerr wrote:On April 10 2013 21:25 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 21:19 arkedos wrote:On April 10 2013 21:12 Benjamin99 wrote:
Actually the more I think about the more I think its a good idea if the NA players who live in NA should just boycott the NA WSC to send a clear message to blizzard and reveal that they are only bitchy and cocky because they dont get the money? You can already observe this behaviour in a nut shell when you take a look at the EG house. I mean they have a team house but instead of practising together, sharing builds and work like a team, they are just streaming for themselves over VERY VERY long periods of the day (well which is fine for itself because in that way they can make some money maybe to help to maintain the teamhouse) and it seems that they got a really poor atmosphere at the teamhouse. Stephano once said on his stream: "I whish I had friends on the US that I can practice with". I mean: HELLO you are in a TEAMhouse ? Shouldnt he practice with his TEAMmates? I Like the Idea of EG having a house where players live together but they are not using this infrastructure they have set up. Its nothing near effective like the Korean team houses. This got nothing to do with money but everything to do with the growth of the NA scene. The NA is dead if this is going to happen. And I don't think you or I is in a position to talk about EG and there social well-being as a team. So the NA scene got to make a choice they can either go with it and try to compete but will fail and eventually die out since no sponsors or teams will be interested in NA players. Or they can fight this and simply boycot it to force blizzard to make changes so it require residency to play in the NA WCS On April 10 2013 21:24 Novacute wrote:
At least we'll get great games in ALL qualifiers now. Who gives a shit really. You don't watch the Olympics because the best teams and players are not there in there respective sports?? People with you attitude makes me sick. This is good for the NA scene. Sponsors want exposure. This will bring more exposure. (We're not going to see BW 2.0 because the tournaments are much more accessible to fans in multiple regions.) This isn't the Olympics. Do you think more people watch the world series or the world baseball classic? Good for the NA scene really? Please tell me you trolling or kidding?. You will not find a single NA player who think this is good for the NA scene I can promise you that Only if they just want easy competition/money. It's good for the NA scene in the long run to have actual competition. You post is preposterous. You are simply clueless. This got nothing to do with easy money. This is basically a death stroke to any NA player or any future talent from NA. I expect many NA teams will also avoid sc2. No Sponsors or teams will pay a dime to any NA player simply because the investment is not worth it. Sponsors and teams wants exposure And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans? There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans.
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS.
Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting
On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong.
Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers.
Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU
|
hi blizzard, good luck explaining this to the rest of the world to NA, does this mean that the koreans above will not be able to compete in code a or code s for a year?
|
Does this mean Taeja forfeits his GSL spot?
|
On April 10 2013 22:14 Advantageous wrote:
Does this mean Taeja forfeits his GSL spot?
He will in Season 2, yes.
|
On April 10 2013 22:07 Champloo wrote:
This is so stupid, why didn't they just make it based on nationality like the last WCS?
At least Europe will have mainly European players in it, but NA is not even worth watching for me now, and I would definitely be pissed if I was a NA pro player.
That's funny, because I was thinking that NA WCS wouldn't be worth watching with the region lock in place. In addition, NA pro players have no right to be pissed given that all Blizzard is doing is adding a few leagues with big prize pools; it is objectively an improvement from their pespective. Only for code S Koreans the structure may be worse than the current one.
|
Well, time for NA/EU to finally step things up; sidenote: Nestea and MVP surprising.
|
Just to get it straight: All those player attend the WCS NA/EU qualifiers instead of the korean ones?
That would be so ridicilous. Like the "North American Star League" with 15 koreans and one european. This way, the whole WCS will be an korean affair and my interest in it immediatly vanished. I don't have anything against korean players, but for me it is just natural to root for players from my country or at least continent.
|
I feel like I'm the only person who likes what's happening. Once it was announced that you could play in any region I think it was obvious what was going to happen.
Right now GSL is just WAY too stacked, there are a lot of good Korean players that you likely will never hear about because GSL is ridiculously hard and to easy to fall out of. In fact look at a player like Jjakji who I feel is a very good Terran, can't even get into Code A but was only able to showcase himself at the past MLG. Jjajki is just one of many good Korean (Seed and Mvp come to mind) players that can't breakthrough because it's just way too hard and takes too much luck. By allowing these players to go and compete outside of Korea these players can get more opportunities to showcase their skill.
To people worrying about the talent level of the GSL being diluted I disagree. If you look at the players that are transferring over from KR to NA/EU they're basically players that are either in Code A or at the bottom of Code S. It won't matter at all after they leave because the amount of talent in Korea is so enormous that you won't see any dip in overall skill level plus you get to see new up and coming players. If your a top player in Korea you won't transfer to another region.
To people worrying about the NA/EU scene, I think it will be better in the long run. Even though it was refreshing to see your local pros battle it out the whole WCS tournament felt more like a novelty act rather than an actual competition because you know the level of play wasn't high. The only way NA and EU are going to improve is if they're playing/practicing against good players. The Koreans coming over are not the top players in Korea like you had in the last MLG they're mostly Code A players so yes they are still better but I don't think all foreigners don't have a chance. Probably initially most of the qualified positions for both NA and EU will be Koreans but I think Blizzard is looking at the long term. Eventually most of the WCS will be played offline which should reduce the number of Koreans in each region. After a while (probably 2 years) having to play and practice against Koreans the foreigner skill level will rise significantly. To me I'd rather see story lines arise from highly competitive tournament than one from a novelty tournament.
So basically I don't see the armageddon of SC2 as an e-sport like many of you.
|
Things are going to be real intense in NA region with the amount of koreans there.
EU still looks fairly empty In comparison. Wonder how these players will stack up against the players from that region ( the really good ones).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
