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On April 10 2013 20:11 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:56 Dodgin wrote:Okay so I'm interested in people's opinions on this. Yes you TL user, I'm talking to you, even if you're a lurker who's never made a single post I encourage you to vote. As a spectator, what would you enjoy watching more? Poll: As a spectator, what kind of WCS would you enjoy more?WCS EU, Lots of EU foreigners, MMA/MC/Mvp and a few Koreans (79) 59% WCS KR, GSL is always the best (46) 34% WCS NA, Lots of Korean players and NA pro players (10) 7% 135 total votes Your vote: As a spectator, what kind of WCS would you enjoy more? (Vote): WCS NA, Lots of Korean players and NA pro players
(Vote): WCS EU, Lots of EU foreigners, MMA/MC/Mvp and a few Koreans
(Vote): WCS KR, GSL is always the best
Okay so the results pretty much confirms what I was thinking, what foreigners want to see is the best foreigners (EU players minus scarlett) competing with Koreans that have a legacy behind them, and not too many Koreans. Three big name players in EU is the perfect amount to add legitimacy to the tournament without making it so there's no hope for the foreigners to win. MMA, Mvp and MC are all fan favorites with lots of history behind them, the casters can tell the story of those players to the casual fans and get them into the korean vs foreigner storyline. EU also has the best broadcasting times for sc2, morning/afternoon EU and evening NA is prime streaming time.
Actually, I just voted for EU because I live there. Gives me a chance to watch them at a good time. ^.^
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On April 10 2013 20:02 Laryleprakon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:00 zicoz wrote:On April 10 2013 19:55 Headnoob wrote:
So Blizzard essentially killed any chance for anyone not korean to even make a notable performance.
It's like blizzard have no idea how to do anything right. In NA, pretty sure the EU scene can compete with the Koreans that chose to play there, Naniwa, Thorzain, Ret, Snute, the Spanish armada etc can make things interesting. Possibly Stephano as well.
+ Polish armada in Nerchio and Mana + Ukraine Dimaga and Kas, yeah most EU pro's will be able to compete, it's looking way more colourful in EU then what is going to NA.
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On April 10 2013 20:03 Iduakil wrote:
All I can say is that you totally hit the jackpot with this post. Yes the determination and investment are key to growing a stable and strong community and talents, see how many team houses have grown over 3 years of WoL out of Korea??? The foreign scene is still not going all out on the game, some pro`s play game as part time hobby, just a handful goes all out and have to move outside of their countries to improve overall.
You can argue all you want but the truth is the 10h regime of play and excercise is going to beat any raw unpoolished talent who plays 2-4h a day. Yes we have exceptions , but how many. The rule stands hard work and real all out commitment beats amateurish talents, yes bash if you like, I consider most foreigners as amateurs as Koreans as real hardworking proffesionals in SC2 which is their real job and hobby in one .
It's funny, how players like Catz shout the loudest, while are far from being the best foreigners... Moreover, it's funny how EU/NA wants to get better by isolating themselves from the best and treating SC2 as a hobby while still providing more lucrative contracts than Koreans do... It just doesn't make any sense 
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It's weird that out of all the players in the eSF teams (Startale, IM, MVP, Prime, etc..) only 5 players decide to switch region.
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hahaha, gg America. I think Europe actually got off quite lightly.
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On April 10 2013 20:05 DusTerr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:55 Headnoob wrote:
So Blizzard essentially killed any chance for anyone not korean to even make a notable performance.
It's like blizzard have no idea how to do anything right. Why the blizzard hate? It's not like anyone actually had a chance to make a notable performance in any previous WCS... As others have also pointed out that an "olympic" style sc2 tournament doesn't really work with the SK domination. (Could be interesting to have a European championship tho - since it's pretty much the only region with multiple nationalities without a clear winner).
Indeed... Don't want to hate on the NA scene as there are quite some great personalities and players there - but last WCS NA was pretty terrible in comparison to the .EU/KR equivalent. Now it could get rather interesting for spectators as the quality of the games will be a lot better overall. However NA guys now really will have to step up their game, which was true even before this new WCS format.
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Let me get this straight, the Koreans just train and play from Korea, en have to travel to the seasonal finals 2 times per year (one is in their own region right?) en if they make it they travel to BlizzCon?
That's 2 weekends travel cost per year?
I don't see how the foreigners could up their level if the Koreans are still training in Korea...
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On April 10 2013 20:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:09 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2013 19:52 m0ck wrote:
Shouldn't we be blaming the EU/US teams, not Blizzard? Why is Taeja forfeiting his code S spot to go US? Why is so many EG Koreans going to US, don't they see that the decision screws their players based in US? Why is the Korean project of TB going all out on US?
But it underscores an issue in SC2: Lots of money is already funneled from EU/US sponsors to Korean players, this is just a more obvious version of it. This is (to some degree) at the cost of players in the foreign scene.
If you don't like the way that WCS is shaping up, one thing to do is to complain to blizzard. Another is to complain to the EU/US teams who have decided that their Korean players should all play in US. I don't see the issue with Blizzard moving around the pieces on the chess board and breaking up the monopoly korea has on having the top sc2 events. Also what korean wouldn't jump at the chance to come to the US if they have a sustainable way to earn a living? Listen to this weeks Inside the Game, they give a bunch of reasons, mostly that most Koreans do not like living in "not Korea".
I don't follow that show and not gonna listen to 3 hours of them droning on about how they as foreigners think "most koreans" feel. Anyway a bunch of koreans picking US as their region seems to tell another story. :D
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On April 10 2013 20:12 pms wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:03 Iduakil wrote:
All I can say is that you totally hit the jackpot with this post. Yes the determination and investment are key to growing a stable and strong community and talents, see how many team houses have grown over 3 years of WoL out of Korea??? The foreign scene is still not going all out on the game, some pro`s play game as part time hobby, just a handful goes all out and have to move outside of their countries to improve overall.
You can argue all you want but the truth is the 10h regime of play and excercise is going to beat any raw unpoolished talent who plays 2-4h a day. Yes we have exceptions , but how many. The rule stands hard work and real all out commitment beats amateurish talents, yes bash if you like, I consider most foreigners as amateurs as Koreans as real hardworking proffesionals in SC2 which is their real job and hobby in one .
It's funny, how players like Catz shout the loudest, while are far from being the best foreigners... Moreover, it's funny how EU/NA wants to get better by isolating themselves from the best and treating SC2 as a hobby while still providing more lucrative contracts than Koreans do... It just doesn't make any sense
Why don't you actually read his fucking post on Reddit where he says he isn't one of the best foreigners and he's complacent with that because that's not his goal, and that his goal is growing the foreign scene. Stop posting player bashing bullshit just because you think it makes you look clever. It doesn't.
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This is just stupid. There's gonna be changes, I kid you not.
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On April 10 2013 20:09 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:06 Nerchio wrote:
You all focus on WCS only but the "transfer" of all those koreans means that they will all participate in the local tournaments too, like MLG/Dreamhack/IEMs etc Only if they actually move to live in EU/US. At the moment there's nothing much to indicate that.
They don't play GSL in Korea anymore. There's nothing to play for in Korea apart from GSTL which takes up some time but not everything. Korean events have seen a huge reduction in numbers with the new WCS format, so Koreans have a lot of free time in their schedules to go to every foreign event their teams can send them to, especially since they can earn WCS points along the way.
Koreans need to go to foreign events to get exposure and money now.
The new WCS system has changed the structure of EVERYTHING, not only the structure of the WCS leagues themselves.
All the scenes will change drastically.
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On April 10 2013 20:02 Laryleprakon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:00 zicoz wrote:On April 10 2013 19:55 Headnoob wrote:
So Blizzard essentially killed any chance for anyone not korean to even make a notable performance.
It's like blizzard have no idea how to do anything right. In NA, pretty sure the EU scene can compete with the Koreans that chose to play there, Naniwa, Thorzain, Ret, Snute, the Spanish armada etc can make things interesting. Possibly Stephano as well.
Mana, Nerchio, Grubby, Babyknight etc etc, all of them have beaten Koreans before. EU wont be a clean sweep for Koreans, thats for sure.
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On April 10 2013 20:15 Mangooze wrote:
Let me get this straight, the Koreans just train and play from Korea, en have to travel to the seasonal finals 2 times per year (one is in their own region right?) en if they make it they travel to BlizzCon?
That's 2 weekends travel cost per year?
I don't see how the foreigners could up their level if the Koreans are still training in Korea...
On EU, the ro16 and onwards are being played offline, so that's 2 weeks.
Also players from "outside" the region do not get financial support for the traveling, probably to keep the costs in check.
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On April 10 2013 20:15 Mangooze wrote:
Let me get this straight, the Koreans just train and play from Korea, en have to travel to the seasonal finals 2 times per year (one is in their own region right?) en if they make it they travel to BlizzCon?
That's 2 weekends travel cost per year?
I don't see how the foreigners could up their level if the Koreans are still training in Korea...
Shhhh. Go to sleep. The foreigners will be able to get abused a few times during tournaments, I mean practice... There's no better practice environment than tournaments. I so want to say Morhaime's lines, but would get banned for trolling.
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On April 10 2013 20:16 BadAim wrote:
This is just stupid. There's gonna be changes, I kid you not.
Only problem is that Code A qualifier has already started. So if they revise the rules, all the players that didn't participate will be royally screwed. Its sad to say, but I see a fix coming soonest in the second season.
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Did so many Koreans change to NA because of the team they are on?
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On April 10 2013 20:16 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:02 Laryleprakon wrote:On April 10 2013 20:00 zicoz wrote:On April 10 2013 19:55 Headnoob wrote:
So Blizzard essentially killed any chance for anyone not korean to even make a notable performance.
It's like blizzard have no idea how to do anything right. In NA, pretty sure the EU scene can compete with the Koreans that chose to play there, Naniwa, Thorzain, Ret, Snute, the Spanish armada etc can make things interesting. Possibly Stephano as well. Mana, Nerchio, Grubby, Babyknight etc etc, all of them have beaten Koreans before. EU wont be a clean sweep for Koreans, thats for sure.
Thats why there's 6 koreans on EU and 20 on NA They know what they are doing There are like 4 players originaly form NA that can do sth. Idra, Goswser, Scarlet, Huk.
And on EU? Stephano, Nercio, Mana, Grubby, Ret, Snute, Sase, Nani (they both will play korea probably :/), Thorzain, Vortix, Lucifron...
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On April 10 2013 20:15 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:11 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 20:09 Baarn wrote:On April 10 2013 19:52 m0ck wrote:
Shouldn't we be blaming the EU/US teams, not Blizzard? Why is Taeja forfeiting his code S spot to go US? Why is so many EG Koreans going to US, don't they see that the decision screws their players based in US? Why is the Korean project of TB going all out on US?
But it underscores an issue in SC2: Lots of money is already funneled from EU/US sponsors to Korean players, this is just a more obvious version of it. This is (to some degree) at the cost of players in the foreign scene.
If you don't like the way that WCS is shaping up, one thing to do is to complain to blizzard. Another is to complain to the EU/US teams who have decided that their Korean players should all play in US. I don't see the issue with Blizzard moving around the pieces on the chess board and breaking up the monopoly korea has on having the top sc2 events. Also what korean wouldn't jump at the chance to come to the US if they have a sustainable way to earn a living? Listen to this weeks Inside the Game, they give a bunch of reasons, mostly that most Koreans do not like living in "not Korea". I don't follow that show and not gonna listen to 3 hours of them droning on about how they as foreigners think "most koreans" feel. Anyway a bunch of koreans picking US as their region seems to tell another story. :D
Its like 15 minutes at the front of the show and then they change subjects. Plus its pretty funny.
But they aren't moving. The qualifiers and event is offline until the round of 16 and then that in NYC for a couple of weeks. Thats not living here full time, which you need a work visa for, not a competitors visa. Works visas are super hard to get and require you to have an sponsor in the US. Competitors visas are short term and let you come for an event with fix time frame(which is short).
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On April 10 2013 20:20 Kylo55 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:16 TheSir wrote:On April 10 2013 20:02 Laryleprakon wrote:On April 10 2013 20:00 zicoz wrote:On April 10 2013 19:55 Headnoob wrote:
So Blizzard essentially killed any chance for anyone not korean to even make a notable performance.
It's like blizzard have no idea how to do anything right. In NA, pretty sure the EU scene can compete with the Koreans that chose to play there, Naniwa, Thorzain, Ret, Snute, the Spanish armada etc can make things interesting. Possibly Stephano as well. Mana, Nerchio, Grubby, Babyknight etc etc, all of them have beaten Koreans before. EU wont be a clean sweep for Koreans, thats for sure. Thats why there's 6 koreans on EU and 20 on NA They know what they are doing There are like 4 players originaly form NA that can do sth. Idra, Goswser, Scarlet, Huk. And on EU? Stephano, Nercio, Mana, Grubby, Ret, Snute, Sase, Nani (they both will play korea probably :/), Thorzain, Vortix, Lucifron...
Nani stated in the thread about him moving to Korea that he will play EU. He will still stay in Korea though, just for training purposes.
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On April 10 2013 20:16 Maesy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:12 pms wrote:On April 10 2013 20:03 Iduakil wrote:
All I can say is that you totally hit the jackpot with this post. Yes the determination and investment are key to growing a stable and strong community and talents, see how many team houses have grown over 3 years of WoL out of Korea??? The foreign scene is still not going all out on the game, some pro`s play game as part time hobby, just a handful goes all out and have to move outside of their countries to improve overall.
You can argue all you want but the truth is the 10h regime of play and excercise is going to beat any raw unpoolished talent who plays 2-4h a day. Yes we have exceptions , but how many. The rule stands hard work and real all out commitment beats amateurish talents, yes bash if you like, I consider most foreigners as amateurs as Koreans as real hardworking proffesionals in SC2 which is their real job and hobby in one .
It's funny, how players like Catz shout the loudest, while are far from being the best foreigners... Moreover, it's funny how EU/NA wants to get better by isolating themselves from the best and treating SC2 as a hobby while still providing more lucrative contracts than Koreans do... It just doesn't make any sense Why don't you actually read his fucking post on Reddit where he says he isn't one of the best foreigners and he's complacent with that because that's not his goal, and that his goal is growing the foreign scene. Stop posting player bashing bullshit just because you think it makes you look clever. It doesn't.
Sorry, I think you misunderstood me. What I wanted to say is that Catz is hardly an authority, he just does not seem credible to me, and I partially explained my reasoning behind it. You may think that it's bashing, but actually I just used the fact, that you even repeated, and also Catz did.
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EPT
