On February 21 2013 02:44 RaZorwire wrote: Maybe someone has already mentioned this, but I noticed that in the HotS beta (and I guess WoL since the patch), different players will sometimes see different APM values for certain players when viewing the score screen after a team game. I was playing a 2v2 with a friend on skype, and when we looked at the score screen after a game, he saw (drastically) different APM-values for one of the players. We saw the same values for the other three players, though.
Can't imagine that being anything but a bug.
Did you lose that game? If you did it gets explained by
2. In long team games (not sure about how long but 10 minutes is not long enough but 20 is) after at least one player leaves the game ALL players take a huge APM drop. The most common thing to notice would be a drop from 250s to 150s. After another player leaves another drop occurs. On average from 150s to 100-110s. Also there is no drop when the last player from the team leaves the game (since the game ends, naturally) so there is no drop in 1v1s. Update: ok not all players take a drop, only the ones who stay. Also the drop is a bit disproportional.
It shouldn't really be a hard thing to fix the APM tab for blizzard... I mean just make every ingame click count and then don't mess around with it. They manipulate it so much it's now became a mess.
On February 21 2013 02:54 NinjaAUS wrote: I'm at 350-450 apm in hots 1v1's, I think they reverted it back to how WoL was before they made the change to apm and added in EPM?
I never had 300 APM in WoL, in fact I never had 200. There is no way some kind of reversion explains the hole thing.
One thing that should be noted is that APM, aside from just feeling good about yourself if its "over 100!," is that it is consistently calculated. Because the value is really in the comparison more than the actual number. It doesn't matter if my APM is 300, what matters is my APM is 300, and a pro is 700 and then I can go "wow he is doing more than twice as many actions per minute than I do!" Or that my APM is 200, and my friends is only 100 I can then brag about my ePeen. It is the comparison that is what makes APM cool to see, not the actual number.
That is where the value lies, and since that is the case I think it is as simple as 2 basic rules :
1 - Pick a system, and just stick with it. We don't need effective APM, and regular APM, and APM excluding this action, and then Super APM, and then Super Modified APM, and then APM real time, and then APM Blizzard time etc. etc.. Just calculate anytime an action is made, which is anytime a button is clicked. And if Blizzard wants to remove certain things from that calculation then fine, Blizzard needs to just clearly define an action and have 1 APM measurement and stick with it. Done.
2 - Pick a system that skews toward higher numbers. This is why I hated eAPM vs. just APM. For the casual player, the higher the number the better they feel so that is good-done. For pro play and hyping SC, you want to be able to advertise some guy doing 400+ actions per minute with a live shot of the persons hands moving faster than hell. So come up with a system that yields higher numbers instead of lower as that is what everyone will get more excited about.
At that point you have high numbers, that are consistent and can be compared. Everyone wins.
If those two things are followed than everything should be fine. The further we get into SC2 the less people will compare BW APM vs. SC2 APM so we need to just move away from that- it will never be a valid comparison because of how things are already messed up with the blizzard minute and all. Although it would be interesting everything is so messed up that hoping to have that option is just not needed compared to cleaning up the current situation.
On February 21 2013 02:57 FLuE wrote: One thing that should be noted is that APM, aside from just feeling good about yourself if its "over 100!," is that it is consistently calculated. Because the value is really in the comparison more than the actual number. It doesn't matter if my APM is 300, what matters is my APM is 300, and a pro is 700 and then I can go "wow he is doing more than twice as many actions per minute than I do!" Or that my APM is 200, and my friends is only 100 I can then brag about my ePeen. It is the comparison that is what makes APM cool to see, not the actual number.
That is where the value lies.
I agree. I will occasionally check my game history in sc2gears and look at how my APM for certain games. A lower APM usually means I was too busy thinking about what I should be doing in a game that I forgot to actually do stuff. It's a good queue to go back and analyze the situation where my APM dropped to figure out how I should react to the same kind of situation in the future.
The APM on the score screen isn't "APM" it's an "APM score" kind of like your army efficiency and such. It's a number that is calculated based on your actual APM I would guess, and is used for leveling/XP purposes.
On February 21 2013 03:37 aike wrote: The APM on the score screen isn't "APM" it's an "APM score" kind of like your army efficiency and such. It's a number that is calculated based on your actual APM I would guess, and is used for leveling/XP purposes.
I think you might be on to something here. But that's just silly. That or it's just bugged.
I did a quick test yesterday and made a short video.
During the video I was spamming build probe. The whole time but the only effective actions taken were building 3 probes and setting 1 rally over 1 minute, yet my epm is averaged to be 42 at the end.
On February 21 2013 03:37 aike wrote: The APM on the score screen isn't "APM" it's an "APM score" kind of like your army efficiency and such. It's a number that is calculated based on your actual APM I would guess, and is used for leveling/XP purposes.
why then the average APM displayed while watching a replay is basicly the same thing as the one at score screen? If its just for the purpose of rewarding experience why would you show it's calculation in a replay?
On February 21 2013 02:44 RaZorwire wrote: Maybe someone has already mentioned this, but I noticed that in the HotS beta (and I guess WoL since the patch), different players will sometimes see different APM values for certain players when viewing the score screen after a team game. I was playing a 2v2 with a friend on skype, and when we looked at the score screen after a game, he saw (drastically) different APM-values for one of the players. We saw the same values for the other three players, though.
Can't imagine that being anything but a bug.
Did you lose that game? If you did it gets explained by
2. In long team games (not sure about how long but 10 minutes is not long enough but 20 is) after at least one player leaves the game ALL players take a huge APM drop. The most common thing to notice would be a drop from 250s to 150s. After another player leaves another drop occurs. On average from 150s to 100-110s. Also there is no drop when the last player from the team leaves the game (since the game ends, naturally) so there is no drop in 1v1s. Update: ok not all players take a drop, only the ones who stay. Also the drop is a bit disproportional.
Sorry if I'm missing something, but that doesn't really explain what happened. We only saw different APM values for one player - if all the ones who stayed in the game got APM drops, we'd be seeing different values for three (all except whoever left first), right?
On February 21 2013 00:29 FLuE wrote: Anytime APM is brought up I always think of InControl on State of the Game. I don't want to misquote as I don't remember exactly what he said but it was something along the lines/idea of 50 years in the future we'll be flying around on space ships and teleporting and doing some sort of future shit that is incredible, yet Blizzard will still be fucking up APM somehow(he said it better, but it was funny).
I don't really understand it. Press a button, record an action. Number of times that happens in a minute is actions per minute. Seems simple enough. Don't even get started on the Blizzard minute vs. actual minute either....
Ye, seriously. It's already a mostly useless stat, since apm != multitasking, so just leave apm = actions / minute (crazy right??) and be done with it.
Also, I really wanna know what values merz is getting
Its simply not a causal relationship. APM =/=> Multitask BUT Multitask => APM
The more you multitask, the higher your APM. It's simply not translatable the other way.
On February 21 2013 00:29 FLuE wrote: Anytime APM is brought up I always think of InControl on State of the Game. I don't want to misquote as I don't remember exactly what he said but it was something along the lines/idea of 50 years in the future we'll be flying around on space ships and teleporting and doing some sort of future shit that is incredible, yet Blizzard will still be fucking up APM somehow(he said it better, but it was funny).
I don't really understand it. Press a button, record an action. Number of times that happens in a minute is actions per minute. Seems simple enough. Don't even get started on the Blizzard minute vs. actual minute either....
Ye, seriously. It's already a mostly useless stat, since apm != multitasking, so just leave apm = actions / minute (crazy right??) and be done with it.
Also, I really wanna know what values merz is getting
Its simply not a causal relationship. APM =/=> Multitask BUT Multitask => APM
The more you multitask, the higher your APM. It's simply not translatable the other way.
Super quick comment on causality: causality cannot simply be equivalent (valid in both directions). We want to accept that low air pressure makes a barometer show low air pressure. That seems to be a causal relationship. But a malfunctioning barometer showing low air pressure is not accepted as creating low air pressure. One wouldn't even accept that a functional barometer shoing low air pressure causes low air pressure.
EPT
