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The new in-game APM.

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-25 20:25:17
February 20 2013 15:18 GMT
#1
I'd like to open a discussion on what the hell the new in-game APM really means. I wouldn't really bother but since they added that cute performance tab it kinda got me wanting to improve my mechanics. But the new APM... is just blowing my mind. I mean going from 100 to 300 APM, really? So I just need to understand what the hell it really is.


Scrapped as outdated
+ Show Spoiler +
What I have figured so far.
1. It is NOT maximum APM. It DOES sometimes get lower at the start of the game. But as the game goes on for at least 10 minutes it basicly never decreases (with one huge exception).
2. In long team games (not sure about how long but 10 minutes is not long enough but 20 is) after at least one player leaves the game ALL players take a huge APM drop. The most common thing to notice would be a drop from 250s to 150s. After another player leaves another drop occurs. On average from 150s to 100-110s. Also there is no drop when the last player from the team leaves the game (since the game ends, naturally) so there is no drop in 1v1s.
Update: ok not all players take a drop, only the ones who stay. And if you were the first to leave the game there will be probably no drop in game stats for you at the score screen (not confirmed). Also the drop is a bit disproportional.
3. APM sometimes rises even after some low-APM periods (current APM is lower than average APM) which doesn't make sense.

Some ideas as to what has changed:

1) edit: proved wrong by Befree.
Normal time instead of Blizzard's time which alone would increase APM by 37(?)%
2) edit: proved wrong by TheRabidDeer.
Camera movements are now taken into account.
3) APM now counts not all actions in the game but only in the most intensive periods of the game.
4) edit: proved wrong by ALPINA. Has been around for a long time.
Holding down production keys, especially for zerg, now counts as different actions.



Important UPDATE:
The latest idea was inspired by lolphind and developed by grigorin. There is some kind of the average APM inflation which occurs at specific moments in time. Effectively at those moments a multiplier to average APM is added with cumulative effect.The most prominent ones are at 4:15 (255 seconds), 8:31 (511),17:03 (1023), and probably 34:07 (2047). Usually at that time average APM is stable enough to see big swings and I also suspect the % value of APM inflation is higher (15-20%) than during earlier ones. Earlier moments of APM inflation are at 2:07 (127 seconds), 1:03 (63), 0:31, and maybe 0:15 and 0:07 but APM is too volatile at those points and the % of APM increase is probably less than at later periods. So basicly if the the game lasted 20 minutes the average APM will be equal to real average APM multiplied by all the multipliers at 0:31, 1:03, 2:07, 4:15, 8:31, 17:03 and maybe by earlier multipliers which are not yet confirmed. So while we don't know the values of multipliers, if they are fixed or not, it's not that important. The important part is that we finally understand the mechanism of APM inflation.

For those who haven't noticed I'd like to point out the almost binary sequence of the timer count of APM multipliers:
31=32-1
63=64-1
127=128-1
255=256-1
511=512-1
1023=1024-1


An important post by grigorin
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 25 2013 15:06 grigorin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 25 2013 08:36 lolphind wrote:
Just played a test game, I gave a drone 200 move commands in the first minute of the game.


minute,game apm,calculated apm
1,200,200
2,111,100
3,77,67
4,59,50
5,50,40
6,41,33
7,39,29
8,32,25



It starts off right then.. does not drop as quickly as it should


ok i give up...
test conditions: 50 or 100 commands in first or second minute of game

what i found out is:
- increase in avrg apm (despite 0 actual apm for a long time) at timer count: 63 (1:03) ,127 (2:07),255 (4:15),511(8:31) maybe 1023 (17:03) looks like some kind of overflow error (if not purposely apm buff implemented by blizzard)
- avrg apm update almost always (99%) on odd timer count during periods of 0 apm
- I have no clue how blizz calculates avrg apm ^_^

here some of my testdata
+ Show Spoiler +

sc2gears: 1 select drone + 99 move commands in first minute (last command 0:42)
timestamp; shown avrg apm; Limit – 1; Limit – 0.5; Limit 0; Limit + 0.5; Limit +1;
51 119 100.3 100.7 101.2 101.6 102.0
53 118 103.4 103.8 104.2 104.7 105.1
54 113 100.8 101.3 101.7 102.2 102.6
57 111 104.5 105.0 105.5 105.9 106.4
62 107 109.5 110.1 110.6 111.1 111.6
63 113 117.6 118.1 118.7 119.2 119.7
65 101 108.3 108.9 109.4 110.0 110.5
69 95 108.1 108.7 109.3 109.8 110.4
75 93 115.0 115.6 116.3 116.9 117.5
79 81 105.3 106.0 106.7 107.3 108.0
85 77 107.7 108.4 109.1 109.8 110.5
95 73 114.0 114.8 115.6 116.4 117.2
103 62 104.7 105.6 106.4 107.3 108.2
109 57 101.7 102.6 103.6 104.5 105.4
127 59 122.8 123.8 124.9 125.9 127.0
131 54 115.7 116.8 117.9 119.0 120.1
139 50 113.5 114.7 115.8 117.0 118.2
151 49 120.8 122.1 123.3 124.6 125.8
159 44 114.0 115.3 116.6 117.9 119.3
163 43 114.1 115.5 116.8 118.2 119.5
171 40 111.2 112.6 114.0 115.4 116.9
191 38 117.8 119.4 121.0 122.6 124.2
207 33 110.4 112.1 113.9 115.6 117.3
219 30 105.9 107.7 109.5 111.3 113.2
255 33 136.0 138.1 140.3 142.4 144.5
263 31 131.5 133.7 135.9 138.1 140.3
279 27 120.9 123.2 125.6 127.9 130.2
319 26 132.9 135.6 138.2 140.9 143.6
limit means upper and lower limit of total apm so that the shown avrg apm can be calculated (avrg apm = total apm / timestamp * 60)
3 different limit-pairs (-1,0 or -0.5,+0.5 or 0,+1) depending on how the result is rounded or cut off
Technique
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands1542 Posts
February 20 2013 15:20 GMT
#2
It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.
If you think you're good, you suck. If you think you suck, you're getting better.
Marou
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1371 Posts
February 20 2013 15:21 GMT
#3
im not 100% sure about how its mesearued but i am sure that my APM is far to high according to SC2 compared to what it really is. I'm just assuming they are using ingame minutes and are counting every single action as an action.
twitter@RickyMarou
SpeCtor
Profile Joined August 2010
233 Posts
February 20 2013 15:21 GMT
#4
On February 21 2013 00:20 Technique wrote:
It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.

seems legit
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
February 20 2013 15:24 GMT
#5
To avoid making a new thread, as the question is related, I'd like to ask how the APM was measured in BW? Was it the same as how SC2 is measured or is it different (I think BW is slightly slower paced in game-speed, how would this affect the numbers etc?)
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
February 20 2013 15:24 GMT
#6
Why do they keep messing with the APM?!
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
February 20 2013 15:25 GMT
#7
On February 21 2013 00:20 Technique wrote:
It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.



ya when I saw my APM was 300 I felt really good, so I guess that confirms this.
Ballack
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway821 Posts
February 20 2013 15:27 GMT
#8
On February 21 2013 00:25 HeeroFX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2013 00:20 Technique wrote:
It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.



ya when I saw my APM was 300 I felt really good, so I guess that confirms this.


Haha, or maybe you just improved drasticly?!?!
Just when I thought I was out, Blizz pulled me back in..
HornyHydra
Profile Joined February 2011
Taiwan222 Posts
February 20 2013 15:28 GMT
#9
I think my APM is inflated too, I'm not sure as to how the new APM is calculated. I go from 200-220 APM to 350...
Prime ♥
FLuE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1012 Posts
February 20 2013 15:29 GMT
#10
Anytime APM is brought up I always think of InControl on State of the Game. I don't want to misquote as I don't remember exactly what he said but it was something along the lines/idea of 50 years in the future we'll be flying around on space ships and teleporting and doing some sort of future shit that is incredible, yet Blizzard will still be fucking up APM somehow(he said it better, but it was funny).

I don't really understand it. Press a button, record an action. Number of times that happens in a minute is actions per minute. Seems simple enough. Don't even get started on the Blizzard minute vs. actual minute either....
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 15:30:39
February 20 2013 15:29 GMT
#11
On February 21 2013 00:18 Cheerio wrote:
I'd like to open a discussion on what the hell the new in-game APM really means. I wouldn't really bother but since they added that cute performance tab it kinda got me wanting to improve my mechanics. But the new APM... is just blowing my mind. I mean going from 100 to 300 APM, really? So I just need to understand what the hell it really is.

What I have figured so far.
1. It is NOT maximum APM. It DOES sometimes get lower at the start of the game. But as the game goes on for at least 10 minutes it basicly never decreases (with one huge exception).
2. In long teamgames (not sure about how long but 10 minutes is not long enough but 20 is) after at least one player leaves the game ALL player take a huge APM drop. The most common thing to notice would be a drop from 250s to 150s. After another player leaves another drop occurs. On average from 150s to 100-110s.
3. Average APM rises quickly after APM-intensive periods. It also sometimes rises even after some low-APM periods (current APM is lower than average APM) which makes me think there is some strange bugged algorithm that takes into account only the most APM-intensive moments of the game.

I've noticed that weird drop in APM in team games. I have like 330 APM / 180 EPM all game, and it goes down to 250 / 140 at the end. Other players are not always affected by that drop, btw.

Edit: I'm quite convinced that it's now per real seconds and not Blizzard seconds. It seems consistent with my WoL APM.
Jarree
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland1004 Posts
February 20 2013 15:31 GMT
#12
I played HOTS placements matches a few weeks back, and my bronze opponent had like 200 APM. I guess it made him feel good too! So i'm all for it gj Blizz
GunSec
Profile Joined February 2010
1095 Posts
February 20 2013 15:38 GMT
#13
I only have about 170 APM in average but had like 100 APM in bw so I should have 300 in sc2??
Lasbike
Profile Joined January 2011
France2888 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 15:39:18
February 20 2013 15:38 GMT
#14
APM has always been weird anyway. When everyone plays a game where 90 ingame seconds (fastest speed) is about 65 real life seconds.. You gotta wonder how all those "Actions per minute" (which minute ?) are calcultated.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 15:50:14
February 20 2013 15:38 GMT
#15
About that team games APM drop

Update: ok not all players take a drop, only the ones who stay. Also the drop is a bit disproportional.
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
February 20 2013 15:39 GMT
#16
Actions per minute. One might belief it would be easy to understand the meaning of that, but Blizzards just completly misses the point.
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
February 20 2013 15:42 GMT
#17
On February 21 2013 00:27 Ballack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2013 00:25 HeeroFX wrote:
On February 21 2013 00:20 Technique wrote:
It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.



ya when I saw my APM was 300 I felt really good, so I guess that confirms this.


Haha, or maybe you just improved drasticly?!?!




Haha, maybe, but considering I don't play every day lol
Nimix
Profile Joined October 2011
France1809 Posts
February 20 2013 15:43 GMT
#18

It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.

Nope, the average protoss player still has 1/3 of what zergs and terran have.
I think they just switched it to real time and absolute (like it counts everything including cameras movements etc) so it appears quite higher, but it still reliable to compare your games anyway. Gotta wait for SC2 gears update
n0ise
Profile Joined April 2010
3452 Posts
February 20 2013 15:45 GMT
#19
On February 21 2013 00:29 FLuE wrote:
Anytime APM is brought up I always think of InControl on State of the Game. I don't want to misquote as I don't remember exactly what he said but it was something along the lines/idea of 50 years in the future we'll be flying around on space ships and teleporting and doing some sort of future shit that is incredible, yet Blizzard will still be fucking up APM somehow(he said it better, but it was funny).

I don't really understand it. Press a button, record an action. Number of times that happens in a minute is actions per minute. Seems simple enough. Don't even get started on the Blizzard minute vs. actual minute either....


Ye, seriously. It's already a mostly useless stat, since apm != multitasking, so just leave apm = actions / minute (crazy right??) and be done with it.

Also, I really wanna know what values merz is getting
FaZiNaTe
Profile Joined August 2009
Germany290 Posts
February 20 2013 15:45 GMT
#20
i Guess its the real APM now, not the ingame timer apm stuff
but i dont know
twitch.com/fazinate
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