• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:56
CET 09:56
KST 17:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros0[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win42025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!9BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams10Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest4
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" DreamHack Open 2013 revealed Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
Ladder Map Matchup Stats BW General Discussion BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION ASL final tickets help
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Analysis of the Trump-Lee S…
Peanutsc
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1448 users

The new in-game APM.

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-25 20:25:17
February 20 2013 15:18 GMT
#1
I'd like to open a discussion on what the hell the new in-game APM really means. I wouldn't really bother but since they added that cute performance tab it kinda got me wanting to improve my mechanics. But the new APM... is just blowing my mind. I mean going from 100 to 300 APM, really? So I just need to understand what the hell it really is.


Scrapped as outdated
+ Show Spoiler +
What I have figured so far.
1. It is NOT maximum APM. It DOES sometimes get lower at the start of the game. But as the game goes on for at least 10 minutes it basicly never decreases (with one huge exception).
2. In long team games (not sure about how long but 10 minutes is not long enough but 20 is) after at least one player leaves the game ALL players take a huge APM drop. The most common thing to notice would be a drop from 250s to 150s. After another player leaves another drop occurs. On average from 150s to 100-110s. Also there is no drop when the last player from the team leaves the game (since the game ends, naturally) so there is no drop in 1v1s.
Update: ok not all players take a drop, only the ones who stay. And if you were the first to leave the game there will be probably no drop in game stats for you at the score screen (not confirmed). Also the drop is a bit disproportional.
3. APM sometimes rises even after some low-APM periods (current APM is lower than average APM) which doesn't make sense.

Some ideas as to what has changed:

1) edit: proved wrong by Befree.
Normal time instead of Blizzard's time which alone would increase APM by 37(?)%
2) edit: proved wrong by TheRabidDeer.
Camera movements are now taken into account.
3) APM now counts not all actions in the game but only in the most intensive periods of the game.
4) edit: proved wrong by ALPINA. Has been around for a long time.
Holding down production keys, especially for zerg, now counts as different actions.



Important UPDATE:
The latest idea was inspired by lolphind and developed by grigorin. There is some kind of the average APM inflation which occurs at specific moments in time. Effectively at those moments a multiplier to average APM is added with cumulative effect.The most prominent ones are at 4:15 (255 seconds), 8:31 (511),17:03 (1023), and probably 34:07 (2047). Usually at that time average APM is stable enough to see big swings and I also suspect the % value of APM inflation is higher (15-20%) than during earlier ones. Earlier moments of APM inflation are at 2:07 (127 seconds), 1:03 (63), 0:31, and maybe 0:15 and 0:07 but APM is too volatile at those points and the % of APM increase is probably less than at later periods. So basicly if the the game lasted 20 minutes the average APM will be equal to real average APM multiplied by all the multipliers at 0:31, 1:03, 2:07, 4:15, 8:31, 17:03 and maybe by earlier multipliers which are not yet confirmed. So while we don't know the values of multipliers, if they are fixed or not, it's not that important. The important part is that we finally understand the mechanism of APM inflation.

For those who haven't noticed I'd like to point out the almost binary sequence of the timer count of APM multipliers:
31=32-1
63=64-1
127=128-1
255=256-1
511=512-1
1023=1024-1


An important post by grigorin
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 25 2013 15:06 grigorin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 25 2013 08:36 lolphind wrote:
Just played a test game, I gave a drone 200 move commands in the first minute of the game.


minute,game apm,calculated apm
1,200,200
2,111,100
3,77,67
4,59,50
5,50,40
6,41,33
7,39,29
8,32,25



It starts off right then.. does not drop as quickly as it should


ok i give up...
test conditions: 50 or 100 commands in first or second minute of game

what i found out is:
- increase in avrg apm (despite 0 actual apm for a long time) at timer count: 63 (1:03) ,127 (2:07),255 (4:15),511(8:31) maybe 1023 (17:03) looks like some kind of overflow error (if not purposely apm buff implemented by blizzard)
- avrg apm update almost always (99%) on odd timer count during periods of 0 apm
- I have no clue how blizz calculates avrg apm ^_^

here some of my testdata
+ Show Spoiler +

sc2gears: 1 select drone + 99 move commands in first minute (last command 0:42)
timestamp; shown avrg apm; Limit – 1; Limit – 0.5; Limit 0; Limit + 0.5; Limit +1;
51 119 100.3 100.7 101.2 101.6 102.0
53 118 103.4 103.8 104.2 104.7 105.1
54 113 100.8 101.3 101.7 102.2 102.6
57 111 104.5 105.0 105.5 105.9 106.4
62 107 109.5 110.1 110.6 111.1 111.6
63 113 117.6 118.1 118.7 119.2 119.7
65 101 108.3 108.9 109.4 110.0 110.5
69 95 108.1 108.7 109.3 109.8 110.4
75 93 115.0 115.6 116.3 116.9 117.5
79 81 105.3 106.0 106.7 107.3 108.0
85 77 107.7 108.4 109.1 109.8 110.5
95 73 114.0 114.8 115.6 116.4 117.2
103 62 104.7 105.6 106.4 107.3 108.2
109 57 101.7 102.6 103.6 104.5 105.4
127 59 122.8 123.8 124.9 125.9 127.0
131 54 115.7 116.8 117.9 119.0 120.1
139 50 113.5 114.7 115.8 117.0 118.2
151 49 120.8 122.1 123.3 124.6 125.8
159 44 114.0 115.3 116.6 117.9 119.3
163 43 114.1 115.5 116.8 118.2 119.5
171 40 111.2 112.6 114.0 115.4 116.9
191 38 117.8 119.4 121.0 122.6 124.2
207 33 110.4 112.1 113.9 115.6 117.3
219 30 105.9 107.7 109.5 111.3 113.2
255 33 136.0 138.1 140.3 142.4 144.5
263 31 131.5 133.7 135.9 138.1 140.3
279 27 120.9 123.2 125.6 127.9 130.2
319 26 132.9 135.6 138.2 140.9 143.6
limit means upper and lower limit of total apm so that the shown avrg apm can be calculated (avrg apm = total apm / timestamp * 60)
3 different limit-pairs (-1,0 or -0.5,+0.5 or 0,+1) depending on how the result is rounded or cut off
Technique
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands1542 Posts
February 20 2013 15:20 GMT
#2
It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.
If you think you're good, you suck. If you think you suck, you're getting better.
Marou
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1371 Posts
February 20 2013 15:21 GMT
#3
im not 100% sure about how its mesearued but i am sure that my APM is far to high according to SC2 compared to what it really is. I'm just assuming they are using ingame minutes and are counting every single action as an action.
twitter@RickyMarou
SpeCtor
Profile Joined August 2010
233 Posts
February 20 2013 15:21 GMT
#4
On February 21 2013 00:20 Technique wrote:
It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.

seems legit
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
February 20 2013 15:24 GMT
#5
To avoid making a new thread, as the question is related, I'd like to ask how the APM was measured in BW? Was it the same as how SC2 is measured or is it different (I think BW is slightly slower paced in game-speed, how would this affect the numbers etc?)
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
February 20 2013 15:24 GMT
#6
Why do they keep messing with the APM?!
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
February 20 2013 15:25 GMT
#7
On February 21 2013 00:20 Technique wrote:
It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.



ya when I saw my APM was 300 I felt really good, so I guess that confirms this.
Ballack
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway821 Posts
February 20 2013 15:27 GMT
#8
On February 21 2013 00:25 HeeroFX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2013 00:20 Technique wrote:
It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.



ya when I saw my APM was 300 I felt really good, so I guess that confirms this.


Haha, or maybe you just improved drasticly?!?!
Just when I thought I was out, Blizz pulled me back in..
HornyHydra
Profile Joined February 2011
Taiwan222 Posts
February 20 2013 15:28 GMT
#9
I think my APM is inflated too, I'm not sure as to how the new APM is calculated. I go from 200-220 APM to 350...
Prime ♥
FLuE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1012 Posts
February 20 2013 15:29 GMT
#10
Anytime APM is brought up I always think of InControl on State of the Game. I don't want to misquote as I don't remember exactly what he said but it was something along the lines/idea of 50 years in the future we'll be flying around on space ships and teleporting and doing some sort of future shit that is incredible, yet Blizzard will still be fucking up APM somehow(he said it better, but it was funny).

I don't really understand it. Press a button, record an action. Number of times that happens in a minute is actions per minute. Seems simple enough. Don't even get started on the Blizzard minute vs. actual minute either....
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 15:30:39
February 20 2013 15:29 GMT
#11
On February 21 2013 00:18 Cheerio wrote:
I'd like to open a discussion on what the hell the new in-game APM really means. I wouldn't really bother but since they added that cute performance tab it kinda got me wanting to improve my mechanics. But the new APM... is just blowing my mind. I mean going from 100 to 300 APM, really? So I just need to understand what the hell it really is.

What I have figured so far.
1. It is NOT maximum APM. It DOES sometimes get lower at the start of the game. But as the game goes on for at least 10 minutes it basicly never decreases (with one huge exception).
2. In long teamgames (not sure about how long but 10 minutes is not long enough but 20 is) after at least one player leaves the game ALL player take a huge APM drop. The most common thing to notice would be a drop from 250s to 150s. After another player leaves another drop occurs. On average from 150s to 100-110s.
3. Average APM rises quickly after APM-intensive periods. It also sometimes rises even after some low-APM periods (current APM is lower than average APM) which makes me think there is some strange bugged algorithm that takes into account only the most APM-intensive moments of the game.

I've noticed that weird drop in APM in team games. I have like 330 APM / 180 EPM all game, and it goes down to 250 / 140 at the end. Other players are not always affected by that drop, btw.

Edit: I'm quite convinced that it's now per real seconds and not Blizzard seconds. It seems consistent with my WoL APM.
Jarree
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland1004 Posts
February 20 2013 15:31 GMT
#12
I played HOTS placements matches a few weeks back, and my bronze opponent had like 200 APM. I guess it made him feel good too! So i'm all for it gj Blizz
GunSec
Profile Joined February 2010
1095 Posts
February 20 2013 15:38 GMT
#13
I only have about 170 APM in average but had like 100 APM in bw so I should have 300 in sc2??
Lasbike
Profile Joined January 2011
France2888 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 15:39:18
February 20 2013 15:38 GMT
#14
APM has always been weird anyway. When everyone plays a game where 90 ingame seconds (fastest speed) is about 65 real life seconds.. You gotta wonder how all those "Actions per minute" (which minute ?) are calcultated.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 15:50:14
February 20 2013 15:38 GMT
#15
About that team games APM drop

Update: ok not all players take a drop, only the ones who stay. Also the drop is a bit disproportional.
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
February 20 2013 15:39 GMT
#16
Actions per minute. One might belief it would be easy to understand the meaning of that, but Blizzards just completly misses the point.
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
February 20 2013 15:42 GMT
#17
On February 21 2013 00:27 Ballack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2013 00:25 HeeroFX wrote:
On February 21 2013 00:20 Technique wrote:
It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.



ya when I saw my APM was 300 I felt really good, so I guess that confirms this.


Haha, or maybe you just improved drasticly?!?!




Haha, maybe, but considering I don't play every day lol
Nimix
Profile Joined October 2011
France1809 Posts
February 20 2013 15:43 GMT
#18

It's just some fake apm to make everyone feel good.

Nope, the average protoss player still has 1/3 of what zergs and terran have.
I think they just switched it to real time and absolute (like it counts everything including cameras movements etc) so it appears quite higher, but it still reliable to compare your games anyway. Gotta wait for SC2 gears update
n0ise
Profile Joined April 2010
3452 Posts
February 20 2013 15:45 GMT
#19
On February 21 2013 00:29 FLuE wrote:
Anytime APM is brought up I always think of InControl on State of the Game. I don't want to misquote as I don't remember exactly what he said but it was something along the lines/idea of 50 years in the future we'll be flying around on space ships and teleporting and doing some sort of future shit that is incredible, yet Blizzard will still be fucking up APM somehow(he said it better, but it was funny).

I don't really understand it. Press a button, record an action. Number of times that happens in a minute is actions per minute. Seems simple enough. Don't even get started on the Blizzard minute vs. actual minute either....


Ye, seriously. It's already a mostly useless stat, since apm != multitasking, so just leave apm = actions / minute (crazy right??) and be done with it.

Also, I really wanna know what values merz is getting
FaZiNaTe
Profile Joined August 2009
Germany290 Posts
February 20 2013 15:45 GMT
#20
i Guess its the real APM now, not the ingame timer apm stuff
but i dont know
twitch.com/fazinate
1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
Crank Gathers S2: Playoffs D2
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 129
Nina 63
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 4919
Flash 2567
Sea 1925
Killer 1224
Bisu 458
Hyun 330
Larva 201
Stork 194
EffOrt 77
Shinee 56
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 40
yabsab 20
Sharp 15
Free 11
Sacsri 8
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm109
ODPixel88
League of Legends
JimRising 653
Counter-Strike
olofmeister185
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King178
Other Games
summit1g13735
ceh9393
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL5024
Other Games
gamesdonequick657
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 26
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH280
• LUISG 14
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2143
• Lourlo792
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
4m
OSC
3h 4m
Harstem vs SKillous
Gerald vs Spirit
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cham vs Ryung
CrankTV Team League
4h 4m
Team Liquid vs Team Falcon
Replay Cast
1d 1h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 3h
ByuN vs Spirit
herO vs Solar
MaNa vs Gerald
Rogue vs GuMiho
Epic.LAN
1d 3h
CrankTV Team League
1d 4h
BASILISK vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
2 days
Dewalt vs Shine
UltrA vs ZeLoT
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
3 days
Cross vs Motive
Sziky vs HiyA
BSL 21
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.