EPTKnoxville at liquidpedia
Knoxville aka TriniXY player of "high class" hacker.. look this video, sorry only Russian language. everything is clear
knoxville aka TriniXY (hots hight GML) MH
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Bibu
Russian Federation163 Posts
Knoxville at liquidpedia Knoxville aka TriniXY player of "high class" hacker.. look this video, sorry only Russian language. everything is clear | ||
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Zoku
307 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391699 Even if there wasn't, there's no need to make an individual post for this. | ||
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( bush
321 Posts
On January 16 2013 03:08 Zoku wrote: There's already a thread for this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391699 Even if there wasn't, there's no need to make an individual post for this. TriniXY is actually a known guy | ||
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PrOmiseCAST
United States305 Posts
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ganil
253 Posts
For those who understand french... it was a long time ago tough. http://pgleague.fr/?Page=news_view&id=113& | ||
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TT1
Canada9991 Posts
 anywho i really didnt care about him because these type of players are never going to accomplish anything in lans, that being said i got really mad after he beat me in the mlg koth yesterday, i even said something in the middle of the game after he did something suspicious : D | ||
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ssg
United States1770 Posts
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( bush
321 Posts
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Risljaninasim
Netherlands228 Posts
On January 16 2013 05:54 ( bush wrote: wait TT1 u knew he is a hacker and still played against him? I would've just refused to play. But I guess it gives a sense of accomplishment when you beat a hacker. | ||
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TT1
Canada9991 Posts
On January 16 2013 05:54 ( bush wrote: wait TT1 u knew he is a hacker and still played against him? i told mlg about him prior to the showmatch but at that point there wasnt any legitimate proof(didnt know his aka either) of him hacking, just gameplay stuff | ||
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DueleR
United States207 Posts
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iS.Tubby
23 Posts
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Kaitokid
Germany1327 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
 .Nice to know though .Also when i did beat him in a macro game he said I would be gold league and yet he map hacks and lost? rofl. | ||
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TiDragOnflY
Netherlands130 Posts
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cArn-
Korea (South)824 Posts
))))) not surprised I was kinda suspecting it | ||
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TiDragOnflY
Netherlands130 Posts
On January 16 2013 09:27 cArn- wrote: that explains why he was just blindly buliding perfect unit composition without even looking once at my army composition or base ))))) not surprised I was kinda suspecting itCould you perhaps provide the community with replays? | ||
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tuoli9
Finland211 Posts
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Innovation
United States284 Posts
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
On January 16 2013 05:50 ROOTT1 wrote: ive known about this for a while now but i didnt want to say anything publically, only told the root members about him. its very easy to figure out if someone is maphacking in pvp because its a b.o orientated mu. i played over 20 games against him on my smurf and every game he blind countered my openers perfectly, just the way he plays(army positioning, reaction times, how he scouts etc etc) made it obvious to me that he maphacked. takes one to know i guess anywho i really didnt care about him because these type of players are never going to accomplish anything in lans, that being said i got really mad after he beat me in the mlg koth yesterday, i even said something in the middle of the game after he did something suspicious : D TT1 I fully respect your stance on this, and I 100% am behind you when you can easily see the how the guy's playing, the way he moves and how there is just no way everything he does is so perfect. I would like to ask however, in light of yet another unfortunate hacking incident, if your thoughts have changed in anyway towards the last situation where we had the ROOT team review a suspected hacker. I can't remember the name of the guy, but Catz lead the charge on a very extensive investigation include what Catz believed is the smoking gun - the "magic scan". There was a voice on the stream(I think it was yours?) who said "yeah, you know, I really don't want to be band wagoning here", to which Catz said "we are not band wagoning. this is hard evidence." I just want to say, if you truly suspect someone of foul play - why not just air your thoughts on a bigger level? I understand taking a more cautious stance(because what if you're wrong?) but honestly when you're at the level of play that you are, your senses do not lie. You feel it in your bones when someone is hacking, and you're almost certain to be right. Basically I'm asking, is there a bigger reason why you take such a conservative stance, at least initially? | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On January 16 2013 10:31 D_K_night wrote: TT1 I fully respect your stance on this, and I 100% am behind you when you can easily see the how the guy's playing, the way he moves and how there is just no way everything he does is so perfect. I would like to ask however, in light of yet another unfortunate hacking incident, if your thoughts have changed in anyway towards the last situation where we had the ROOT team review a suspected hacker. I can't remember the name of the guy, but Catz lead the charge on a very extensive investigation include what Catz believed is the smoking gun - the "magic scan". There was a voice on the stream(I think it was yours?) who said "yeah, you know, I really don't want to be band wagoning here", to which Catz said "we are not band wagoning. this is hard evidence." I just want to say, if you truly suspect someone of foul play - why not just air your thoughts on a bigger level? I understand taking a more cautious stance(because what if you're wrong?) but honestly when you're at the level of play that you are, your senses do not lie. You feel it in your bones when someone is hacking, and you're almost certain to be right. Basically I'm asking, is there a bigger reason why you take such a conservative stance, at least initially? Was Spades, and the "hard game mechanics evidence" was all 100% bullshit, was either from a misunderstanding of replay mechanics and/or of game mechanics. Which wasn't too important because there was gameplay evidence, which really is the only admissible evidence outside of someone using automation hacks, which can be detected in the replay file (assuming they use standard methods of automation). And this here too is gameplay evidence, not "mechanics evidence", which is you look at games through a large sample set is quite useful. | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On January 16 2013 10:31 D_K_night wrote: Basically I'm asking, is there a bigger reason why you take such a conservative stance, at least initially? Because if you come out guns blazing on this subject and you're wrong, there's going to be hell to pay. Remember TheMista? Saw IdrA play this guy on his stream and he was giving him decent games. Thought it was interesting considering he was someone I never had heard of. No suspicion of hacking, if I can recall at the time, but from what a few people are saying, evidence sounds fairly damning. | ||
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
On January 16 2013 10:35 EtherealDeath wrote: Was Spades, and the "hard game mechanics evidence" was all 100% bullshit, was either from a misunderstanding of replay mechanics and/or of game mechanics. Which wasn't too important because there was gameplay evidence, which really is the only admissible evidence outside of someone using automation hacks, which can be detected in the replay file (assuming they use standard methods of automation). And this here too is gameplay evidence, not "mechanics evidence", which is you look at games through a large sample set is quite useful. I see your stance on this, and have to respectfully disagree. I support Catz and watched the video from beginning to end. When even fellow Terran players like PainUser take a look and totally agree, I mean... This is more likely than not, the wrong time to get into this type of discussion. When I see Catz highlight many fishy trends in the video such as "why would he scan...and then NOT look at where he scanned" "why would his camera be spending all that time staring at his buildings" "why would he completely unsiege ALL his tanks from the center, and move EVERY unit to intercept that drop" People rushed in saying, "oh Spades isn't even good, he just does random stuff" which is the most difficult to believe thing I have ever heard. Talking about a guy who is GM level from "doing random stuff" ? Tell that to all the people who can't break into masters. I am of the opinion that getting to GM is not some random trivial feat that literally anyone can do. The very best players in the entire geographic region - 0.2%...can just...somehow get into GM..."doing random stuff" - maybe I'm the one who's delusional, right? You're probably gonna say "the replay files are subject to corruption", "you can't rely on replays for evidence when the camera could be bugged" and possibly even many hundreds of other reasons. I still believe in CatZ, that's all I have to close off with. | ||
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LeafMeAlone
United States301 Posts
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TiDragOnflY
Netherlands130 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On January 16 2013 11:10 D_K_night wrote: I see your stance on this, and have to respectfully disagree. I support Catz and watched the video from beginning to end. When even fellow Terran players like PainUser take a look and totally agree, I mean... This is more likely than not, the wrong time to get into this type of discussion. When I see Catz highlight many fishy trends in the video such as "why would he scan...and then NOT look at where he scanned" "why would his camera be spending all that time staring at his buildings" "why would he completely unsiege ALL his tanks from the center, and move EVERY unit to intercept that drop" People rushed in saying, "oh Spades isn't even good, he just does random stuff" which is the most difficult to believe thing I have ever heard. Talking about a guy who is GM level from "doing random stuff" ? Tell that to all the people who can't break into masters. I am of the opinion that getting to GM is not some random trivial feat that literally anyone can do. The very best players in the entire geographic region - 0.2%...can just...somehow get into GM..."doing random stuff" - maybe I'm the one who's delusional, right? You're probably gonna say "the replay files are subject to corruption", "you can't rely on replays for evidence when the camera could be bugged" and possibly even many hundreds of other reasons. I still believe in CatZ, that's all I have to close off with. First there is something you need to understand. Namely, camera lock as we have seen it so far is not triggered automatically. And why would it be? That would be the easiest thing to detect ever - a similar method was used in BW to detect hackers, namely through the absence of something that you'd normally expect to see at least a few times. So to your first point, why would Spades scan, and then active camera lock to look at his scan target? See that makes no sense at all from the viewpoint of it being a clue in the replay itself, outside of all game context. So it would seem unlikely to be a camera lock, but rather that he either did not bother to look at it period (which is gameplay evidence and very useful), or he looked at it for not too long then went to something else, and in a replay file what happens is that such actions can be not played back. It is for this reason that you can select units without the selection showing up in the unit box in a replay. Your second point about staring at buildings is interesting, as it is suggestive of camera lock, however it is not 100% proof because people do occasionally do that for a variety of reasons. However, as I said before, if the guy is doing that a lot and/or never looking into fog of war, then it is highly suggestive. Your last point about random unit movements is exactly the type of thing I am saying is most useful in fingering a hacker. Gameplay evidence, namely moves that don't make any sense at all unless you have perfect vision or at least the ability to see production tab, are very good. Imo only a retard or longtime hacker would get caught using active features of a hack, rather than passive. So instead we probably have to rely more on how they play, because over a long period of games, you can tell if something is up with the way they play, and that's how you notice them, unless they are using active hacks that leave a fingerprint. And PS I didn't say Catz is wrong. I just said that his evidence of active components of a hack being used were iffy at best , and detracted from the good evidence garnered through analysis of Spades' play. I actually think he was right, about the gameplay evidence that is. | ||
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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( bush
321 Posts
On January 16 2013 14:04 Raithed wrote: Pretty ballsy to hack in a tournament such as this. not that ballsy, i know a guy who used wall hack in a Counter-Strike WCG Lan tournament | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
He's a hacker, no big deal, there are hundreds of em on Ladder. The issue here is that he was able to enter & play in a tournament. Who is responsible? In my opinion, MLG screwed up. Also this could be a good opportunity to rant about the credibility of online tournaments, and how you never know who is actually behind the computer, nor what he is actually doing. | ||
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Lomo
Germany137 Posts
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RemarK
United States452 Posts
On January 16 2013 11:10 D_K_night wrote: People rushed in saying, "oh Spades isn't even good, he just does random stuff" which is the most difficult to believe thing I have ever heard. Talking about a guy who is GM level from "doing random stuff" ? Tell that to all the people who can't break into masters. I am of the opinion that getting to GM is not some random trivial feat that literally anyone can do. The very best players in the entire geographic region - 0.2%...can just...somehow get into GM..."doing random stuff" - maybe I'm the one who's delusional, right? Hmmm, there's tons of people in GM, even top GM, who do completely random stuff. The distinction between GM and masters isn't just strategy, a lot of it is mechanics and execution - which is why people with high GM mechanics and execution can faceroll people doing random stuff oftentimes. Blind all-ins, metagaming, lack of scouting, random army movements, all of these things happen all of the time in legitimate high-level play. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On January 16 2013 15:01 Al Bundy wrote: Wow this sad hacker was on MLG KotH? He's a hacker, no big deal, there are hundreds of em on Ladder. The issue here is that he was able to enter & play in a tournament. Who is responsible? In my opinion, MLG screwed up. Also this could be a good opportunity to rant about the credibility of online tournaments, and how you never know who is actually behind the computer, nor what he is actually doing. Most of the HotS tournaments have been including a wide range of players just based on recommendation. This is great to getting new players exposure in the scene so don't be mad about that. The problem is that no one really had any evidence at that time as far as I know, and just like TT1 said. It's not good to try and screw someone over just based on a hunch, even if its a good one. The show matches/KOTH MLG has been doing is amazing and you shouldn't be mad at anyone. Instead, just encourage highly skilled players to continually check for suspicious action so we can try to ward away things like that from happening. | ||
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myasQo
Russian Federation174 Posts
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TT1
Canada9991 Posts
On January 16 2013 10:31 D_K_night wrote: TT1 I fully respect your stance on this, and I 100% am behind you when you can easily see the how the guy's playing, the way he moves and how there is just no way everything he does is so perfect. I would like to ask however, in light of yet another unfortunate hacking incident, if your thoughts have changed in anyway towards the last situation where we had the ROOT team review a suspected hacker. I can't remember the name of the guy, but Catz lead the charge on a very extensive investigation include what Catz believed is the smoking gun - the "magic scan". There was a voice on the stream(I think it was yours?) who said "yeah, you know, I really don't want to be band wagoning here", to which Catz said "we are not band wagoning. this is hard evidence." I just want to say, if you truly suspect someone of foul play - why not just air your thoughts on a bigger level? I understand taking a more cautious stance(because what if you're wrong?) but honestly when you're at the level of play that you are, your senses do not lie. You feel it in your bones when someone is hacking, and you're almost certain to be right. Basically I'm asking, is there a bigger reason why you take such a conservative stance, at least initially? i usually dont like to accuse people of maphacking until im 100% sure of it(by playing them or by watching them play over a large enough game sample). you risk ruining someones career if your wrong about them, sadly the only way you can be sure whether or not someone is hacking is by having "concrete" evidence(such as blink micro hack, fog of war clicks etc etc) but thats very unlikely to occur | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
On January 16 2013 15:11 -Kyo- wrote: Most of the HotS tournaments have been including a wide range of players just based on recommendation. This is great to getting new players exposure in the scene so don't be mad about that. The problem is that no one really had any evidence at that time as far as I know, and just like TT1 said. It's not good to try and screw someone over just based on a hunch, even if its a good one. The show matches/KOTH MLG has been doing is amazing and you shouldn't be mad at anyone. Instead, just encourage highly skilled players to continually check for suspicious action so we can try to ward away things like that from happening. I understand, that sounds good. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On January 16 2013 15:11 -Kyo- wrote: Most of the HotS tournaments have been including a wide range of players just based on recommendation. This is great to getting new players exposure in the scene so don't be mad about that. The problem is that no one really had any evidence at that time as far as I know, and just like TT1 said. It's not good to try and screw someone over just based on a hunch, even if its a good one. The show matches/KOTH MLG has been doing is amazing and you shouldn't be mad at anyone. Instead, just encourage highly skilled players to continually check for suspicious action so we can try to ward away things like that from happening. Yup this. You can't get mad at them for not knowing. They aren't expected to look at every single player and know for a fact they don't hack. It's impossible to tell unless you are looking for it and the people doing that aren't looking and paying attention to suspicious activity, doesn't even cross their minds especially if the other player is actually "scouting". | ||
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doggy
Germany306 Posts
That news made my day I hope the other ******** cheaters will get caught one day too. Cheating is still way too easy in Sc2 (disregardless if its WoL or HotS). I would bet money that there are a ton of other "WoL nobodys" who are trying to earn money in HotS due to hacking. A low gm/high master with just a production tab hack can compete with the bests.Its just frustrating to see as a up and coming player myself that many other people choose the EZ way. edit..: There is a other zerg as well who jumped out from nowhere to "one of the best/best zerg" in hots. I dont wanna write a name because i dont have evidence. I just want the people to think twice if there is a "Top Player" who is so bad that his builds and timings are even in the first 6minutes of the game 20 seconds behind real top players, without any pressure at all. Just think twice before u admire someone. Not every cheater is so stupid to cheat a way that other people can really "see" it | ||
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yoigen
Germany369 Posts
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Zavior
Finland753 Posts
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Poopi
France12762 Posts
o_o | ||
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TiDragOnflY
Netherlands130 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:02 Poopi wrote: How can you even brag while knowing that you hack and are full of shit? o_o Not exactly hacking but remember that Veralynn interview after she ''beat'' Dragon and was bragging about it. | ||
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snively
United States1159 Posts
On January 16 2013 05:50 ROOTT1 wrote: takes one to know i guess oh tt1. its ok, we forgive you. | ||
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lain86
Russian Federation2 Posts
http://forum.sc2tv.ru/threads/41717-knoxville-MH?p=1266774&viewfull=1#post1266774 (Russian language) | ||
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gylka
Ukraine50 Posts
On January 17 2013 17:26 lain86 wrote: knoxville aka TriniXY was kicked from his team and from co-casters of sc2tv.ru http://forum.sc2tv.ru/threads/41717-knoxville-MH?p=1266774&viewfull=1#post1266774 (Russian language) Actualy not kicked but left by himself (thou he could be kicked anyway) as he states "i'm leaving, i'm innocent, bla-bla-bla, i'll return" (i guess with new version of maphack). Btw, that video analysis is pretty bad, i'd say that only DT-froge game was real evidence. Other games were only extremely suspicous. And yeah another funny picture was found by Revolver: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://s019.radikal.ru/i605/1301/c6/57f3b642341f.jpg) Twi -> Forge -> Blink -> Canon -> Robo. Yep, thats a new grandmaster build. TT1, you should use it in every PvP! :trollface | ||
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lain86
Russian Federation2 Posts
On January 17 2013 19:41 gylka wrote: Actualy not kicked but left by himself ah yeah you right. my English is not that well | ||
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ArcsinX
Russian Federation2 Posts
Here it is. | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On January 18 2013 01:04 ArcsinX wrote: I have created English subtitles for Revolver's video with Knoxville replays review. Here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3NfgOEjKVM The first 3 games don't provide as much "evidence" though. So he uses the same build order in PvP as his opponent with slight timing differences, he has to hack! That happens so many times. Even the movement back and forth between the two spots on Daybreak where your opponent can enter your natural area is not so weird. The Oracles changing direction to catch 2x Pylon is highly suspicious of course. But the rest "won't hold up in court" as they say. Him sitting on his ramp when going Stargate is pretty normal I'd say, not just because he "knew" the opponent was coming. Only the 4th game where he builds a Forge + Cannon at his ramp without knowledge whatsoever of the proxy DT Shrine (or anything else) basically confirms map / production tab hack. | ||
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gylka
Ukraine50 Posts
On January 18 2013 01:28 dani` wrote: Only the 4th game where he builds a Forge + Cannon at his ramp without knowledge whatsoever of the proxy DT Shrine (or anything else) basically confirms map / production tab hack. Yep, thats what I think too. The guy that made video was I guess too raging and couldnt keep his head cool. There're realy some random and stupid stuff happens in this game, and many players play blindly at early stage of the game. But that DT + forge - thats fucking lol. And on that russian forum the guy that made that video (Revolver) said that he looked throu TrinXY's build orders on all games and he played that "forge-build" only when opponent goes DTs (which I doubt he had scouted cos he plays blindly and even in bronze players dont allow opponent to scout DT shrine). Thats some star sense MVP would have like to have... | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
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narlock
Canada4 Posts
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( bush
321 Posts
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