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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
I think your metaphor doesn't really work... a better one would be if the football organization (can never tell if people are talking about football or american football) decided to change the rules of the game without advance notice.
Also, what seems like a small problem to you is even bigger problem for a pro... not smaller. Novice players will hardly notice the changes because the margin for victory is so much greater at lower levels.
Also again... not every single player is in the same position... only one race is having serious changes (afaik) so you can hardly say that the field is leveled.
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I remember the patch before NASL 4 came out of nowhere too.It'd be nice to know
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On January 16 2013 01:46 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Firstly, we all play the same game. I may not play Zerg, but the patch affects me too. Secondly, the point of my football analogy is that pros should not publicly complain. Because they are pros.
you ignored everything i said yet responded anyway 
i mostly agree with plansix above you, just makes little sense for there to be a 0-day warning period for patches when even a four or five day notice would go a long way in helping. as far as i can tell, there is no argument against announcing patch dates other than your "you shouldn't need it"
league of legends, for example, dances around this issue by making it possible for tournament organisers, if they so desire, to run their games on a separate tournament realm fitted with an older patch. i haven't heard anyone argue that it's a shitty thing for the game, not even that it's unnecessary. as far as i can tell, it's a Good Thing. i don't get why so many people argue against good ideas on the basis that they don't want them personally :3
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
Wait so you don't actually find his request justified? How in the world...? What he's asking seems pretty reasonable....
Am I missing something here or did something get lost in translation when I read the OP?
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So adorable.
Completely agree though. There should be at least a week grace period for the patch release date. If not that then allow the tournaments to play on the previous patch. I think that would be a better solution as Blizzard can't really accommodate every single tournament or player. Being able to play on a previous version of the game would allow tournaments to be more competitive.
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On January 16 2013 02:02 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. Wait so you don't actually find his request justified? How in the world...? What he's asking seems pretty reasonable.... Am I missing something here or did something get lost in translation when I read the OP?
Not really. All the zergs maybe, but for everyone else they have an advantage. They didn't get any nerfs.
Edit: Oops, these were supposed to be one response : /
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On January 16 2013 01:55 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well. Lol, the sports comparison is so far off. Firstly, comparing to weather is stupid because the weather is not controlled by humans. It would be like players adapting to not ideal ping/lag which they do. A patch is something determined by Blizzard which changes the rule set of the games. It would be like an NBA game changing to 16 minutes a quarter instead of 15. Do you think they would do that in mid season without warning? Also, stadiums that have retractable roofs have to tell the opposing team whether the roof will be open or close. Why do you think that is?
I will agree that Blizzards should have provided a heads up that they planned to ship out the balance patch this week. However, the larger issue is that a rule change is not governed by hardware. What if Blizzard told everyone the day the patch was going to be pushed out, but then their Korean servers had an error and were unable to update for a day or two? Then they would have NA, EU with one set of rules, while Korea has another. It is a difficult position for Blizzard and I don't think we can expect every patch to drop at the exact same time. After all, they can only patch during buisness hours, since you need the staff there to make sure the server does not crap out.
I respect where players are coming from, but problem can be solved by both Blizzard providing dates when they plan to patch, but players and coaches anticipating the patch coming. The days of "Its all Blizzards fault for patching the game before X event," are over. People have enough notice on what is going to change most of the time and the better players/team are going to start planning before the patch hits.
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On January 16 2013 02:02 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. Wait so you don't actually find his request justified? How in the world...? What he's asking seems pretty reasonable.... Am I missing something here or did something get lost in translation when I read the OP?
Yes it is reasonnable, but hte way he did it is a bit uncalled for if you ask me. He should have talked about it with his team, and with blizzard. But on a public forum? Not really the best place to do so.
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Agreed, it would be very convenient and more professional for patch notices to come at least a few days before (and reliably).
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On January 16 2013 02:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:55 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well. Lol, the sports comparison is so far off. Firstly, comparing to weather is stupid because the weather is not controlled by humans. It would be like players adapting to not ideal ping/lag which they do. A patch is something determined by Blizzard which changes the rule set of the games. It would be like an NBA game changing to 16 minutes a quarter instead of 15. Do you think they would do that in mid season without warning? Also, stadiums that have retractable roofs have to tell the opposing team whether the roof will be open or close. Why do you think that is? I will agree that Blizzards should have provided a heads up that they planned to ship out the balance patch this week. However, the larger issue is that a rule change is not governed by hardware. What if Blizzard told everyone the day the patch was going to be pushed out, but then their Korean servers had an error and were unable to update for a day or two? Then they would have NA, EU with one set of rules, while Korea has another. It is a difficult position for Blizzard and I don't think we can expect every patch to drop at the exact same time. After all, they can only patch during buisness hours, since you need the staff there to make sure the server does not crap out. I respect where players are coming from, but problem can be solved by both Blizzard providing dates when they plan to patch, but players and coaches anticipating the patch coming. The days of "Its all Blizzards fault for patching the game before X event," are over. People have enough notice on what is going to change most of the time and the better players/team are going to start planning before the patch hits.
Did you even read OP's post? He was only asking for Blizzard to provide dates as to when they plan to release the patch. Of course, if there are unforeseen issues, then everyone will have to deal with it.
And you better teams/player will plan for patch is not correct either. You don't spend time practicing new builds because a patch 'might' hit. Because you are taking time from your 'old' builds.
Why do you think almost all the tournament have already announced when they are going to switch to HoTS. Do you think it would be fun for the players if they came to the first day of Code S of season 2 and then just found out they are playing HoTS(assuming no previous announcement)? Using your argument, players and teams should be preparing for both WoL and HoTS...
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Yeah this thread was a good idea, I hope it gets better in the future.
Hipster fighting~!
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On January 16 2013 02:42 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Agreed, it would be very convenient and more professional for patch notices to come at least a few days before (and reliably).
Blizzard also needs to make players and teams aware that they can't guarantee that the patch will push out 100% on time. Just being honest and saying "We are going to try for Tuesday, but that might not go as planned because, you know, the internet is a fickle bitch." And players need to be more aware of when patches are comming, rather than saying "I'll deal with it when it gets here."
I bet if both sides pay more attention, the problem will go away on its own.
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I always thought the patch day was obvious.
It's on Tuesday
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On January 16 2013 02:53 Figgy wrote:I always thought the patch day was obvious. It's on Tuesday
Yeah, but did you know it would be this Tuesday or next Tuesday?
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On January 16 2013 02:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:42 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Agreed, it would be very convenient and more professional for patch notices to come at least a few days before (and reliably). Blizzard also needs to make players and teams aware that they can't guarantee that the patch will push out 100% on time. Just being honest and saying "We are going to try for Tuesday, but that might not go as planned because, you know, the internet is a fickle bitch." And players need to be more aware of when patches are comming, rather than saying "I'll deal with it when it gets here." I bet if both sides pay more attention, the problem will go away on its own.
How are players suppose to be more aware when there is no announcement? It is not like Blizzard had to patch this Tuesday. They could easily have done it next week.
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On January 16 2013 02:52 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:35 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:55 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well. Lol, the sports comparison is so far off. Firstly, comparing to weather is stupid because the weather is not controlled by humans. It would be like players adapting to not ideal ping/lag which they do. A patch is something determined by Blizzard which changes the rule set of the games. It would be like an NBA game changing to 16 minutes a quarter instead of 15. Do you think they would do that in mid season without warning? Also, stadiums that have retractable roofs have to tell the opposing team whether the roof will be open or close. Why do you think that is? I will agree that Blizzards should have provided a heads up that they planned to ship out the balance patch this week. However, the larger issue is that a rule change is not governed by hardware. What if Blizzard told everyone the day the patch was going to be pushed out, but then their Korean servers had an error and were unable to update for a day or two? Then they would have NA, EU with one set of rules, while Korea has another. It is a difficult position for Blizzard and I don't think we can expect every patch to drop at the exact same time. After all, they can only patch during buisness hours, since you need the staff there to make sure the server does not crap out. I respect where players are coming from, but problem can be solved by both Blizzard providing dates when they plan to patch, but players and coaches anticipating the patch coming. The days of "Its all Blizzards fault for patching the game before X event," are over. People have enough notice on what is going to change most of the time and the better players/team are going to start planning before the patch hits. Did you even read OP's post? He was only asking for Blizzard to provide dates as to when they plan to release the patch. Of course, if there are unforeseen issues, then everyone will have to deal with it. And you better teams/player will plan for patch is not correct either. You don't spend time practicing new builds because a patch 'might' hit. Because you are taking time from your 'old' builds. Why do you think almost all the tournament have already announced when they are going to switch to HoTS. Do you think it would be fun for the players if they came to the first day of Code S of season 2 and then just found out they are playing HoTS(assuming no previous announcement)? Using your argument, players and teams should be preparing for both WoL and HoTS...
Don't take my arguments and apply them to things I was not talking about. This is about a patch with a single balance change to a single ability, not an expansion. If this was HotS and an event switch over at the last moment, I would have a very different opinion and you know it.
And the player that says "Blizzard is going to nerft infested terrans in the next few weeks, so I can't rely on them as much as I used to. I should practice and try to use them less." and turns that practice into a win when the patch comes out, is the better player. I don't know how you argue that they are not.
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
You are not a pro so please dont assume whether they have a problem adapting or not. He's asking for common courtesy, to be notified of balance changes in a game in which he plays professionally, in which he makes his living on.
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i take it back when i said i mostly agree with plansix
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Totally agree Golden. In the case of the infestor nerf, it's not fair when you build the right number of them (the right number as you know it to be) and realize that fg is a missile and you're missing a lot. Soon you have fewer infestors than you need, they're low on energy, you haven't done as much damage to the enemy, and he's knocking on your door. Not fair.
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On January 16 2013 03:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:52 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 02:35 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:55 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well. Lol, the sports comparison is so far off. Firstly, comparing to weather is stupid because the weather is not controlled by humans. It would be like players adapting to not ideal ping/lag which they do. A patch is something determined by Blizzard which changes the rule set of the games. It would be like an NBA game changing to 16 minutes a quarter instead of 15. Do you think they would do that in mid season without warning? Also, stadiums that have retractable roofs have to tell the opposing team whether the roof will be open or close. Why do you think that is? I will agree that Blizzards should have provided a heads up that they planned to ship out the balance patch this week. However, the larger issue is that a rule change is not governed by hardware. What if Blizzard told everyone the day the patch was going to be pushed out, but then their Korean servers had an error and were unable to update for a day or two? Then they would have NA, EU with one set of rules, while Korea has another. It is a difficult position for Blizzard and I don't think we can expect every patch to drop at the exact same time. After all, they can only patch during buisness hours, since you need the staff there to make sure the server does not crap out. I respect where players are coming from, but problem can be solved by both Blizzard providing dates when they plan to patch, but players and coaches anticipating the patch coming. The days of "Its all Blizzards fault for patching the game before X event," are over. People have enough notice on what is going to change most of the time and the better players/team are going to start planning before the patch hits. Did you even read OP's post? He was only asking for Blizzard to provide dates as to when they plan to release the patch. Of course, if there are unforeseen issues, then everyone will have to deal with it. And you better teams/player will plan for patch is not correct either. You don't spend time practicing new builds because a patch 'might' hit. Because you are taking time from your 'old' builds. Why do you think almost all the tournament have already announced when they are going to switch to HoTS. Do you think it would be fun for the players if they came to the first day of Code S of season 2 and then just found out they are playing HoTS(assuming no previous announcement)? Using your argument, players and teams should be preparing for both WoL and HoTS... Don't take my arguments and apply them to things I was not talking about. This is about a patch with a single balance change to a single ability, not an expansion. If this was HotS and an event switch over at the last moment, I would have a very different opinion and you know it. And the player that says "Blizzard is going to nerft infested terrans in the next few weeks, so I can't rely on them as much as I used to. I should practice and try to use them less." and turns that practice into a win when the patch comes out, is the better player. I don't know how you argue that they are not.
NO. He would be a player that is doing a coin flip because his builds would be not be optimized if the patch didn't go in. Your argument only works if he has enough time to prepare for patch and no patch fully. But this is obviously not the case.
I used the HoTS example because it magnifies the issue. If your argument is that the patch is insignificant, so it is ok that there is no warning, I still think it is a BAD one.
Also find it funny that when a pro player comes here to make this request. Some non pros tell them how pros should deal with it...
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EPT
