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hi, i'm golden from korea and startale. i participation IEM katowice.
i saw some guy said "already apply infestor terran nurf in SEA, NA i tested it" (i want he lying T_T..)
blizzard is never notice patch date. just upload balance test map and "we are planning^_^!" progamers get very confused before tournament. i depart to poland for IEM tomorrow, so i don't have patch adaptation period. if blizzard did notice patch date, i practice on 1.5.4 patch maps. but they didn't.. just upload and apply. i got same happen in when NASL4 Grand Final, fungal nurf. progamers really need to know patch date. i don't need again this happen ;.;
thanks . sorry for noob english <3
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Well, there are tournaments year round, you can't have them accommodate their patches for everyone.
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I thought there was a "Pro-Forum" on battle.net. Wouldn't this be the best place to get in touch with Blizzard and tell them to give you the patch dates in time?
Else I agree with you. Blizzard should announce balance patches at least one weak before they go online, so that Proplayers have enough time to adapt.
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On January 16 2013 00:51 misidia wrote:
Well, there are tournaments year round, you can't have them accommodate their patches for everyone.
didn't you read the post? lol
He doesn't say "change the patch date" but wants the patch date to be announced earlier so he can prepare for a tournament with the patch it will actually be played
valid complain imo
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I think he's saying that advanced notice would help so he could at least prepare. If you have a strategy or timing that doesn't work after the patch, you can prepare something else that would work.
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I agree here. Blizzard need to communicate their plans for incoming patches together with some kind of schedule at least 1week ahead of time. I can fully understand Zerg players complaining right now, because this patch actually matters a lot in ZvP and ZvZ. (ZvT is pretty much unaffected since getting range attack upgrades there is pretty uncommon). We need more communication here!
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I agree with your post, given the circumstances. Some initial announcement by Blizz before implementing new things would be nice.
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Well, there are tournaments year round, you can't have them accommodate their patches for everyone. He is not asking for any accommodation, just knowing a bit in advance when then plan to release the patch. Seems legitimate for a pro player.
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He's not asking for accommodations.
He's asking for notice. So that he is aware when the balance change will occur and can be prepared for it.
It's no small mindfuck.
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very true, especially this time they announced to release a test map 3 days ago, now they implement it lol
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I agree, but this really isn't the place to discuss it. It does no good here. B.Net forums are the only place it'll get exposure.
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France9034 Posts
That's quite a really severe problem you raise there Golden... I thought it was quite well explained, and not "backdoor patching" which may cause players being caught off guard due to a game change...
I remember that Blizzard said they want to cooperate to help the scene grow. Either they need someone to teach them really quickly how to "help", either they were just saying "cooperate with companies so that SC2 brings $$".
Gasp...
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Wrong post. Sorry
User was warned for this post
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
It's a valid complaint, I can imagine it having significant effects on players. Reread the op misidia.
Golden, impressive enough that you bothered to write in english, no need to apologise!
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Valid criticism. You should try and get in touch with Blizzard about it.
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I agree Golden. It really isn't fair for there to be significant changes to the game just before a tournament, especially when the patch comes without any prior notice. I fully expect Zergs to be underperforming simply because they will overestimate the strength of their ITs.
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It was "announced" a week ago that some changes would be made and they were working on it.
They also posted they would like to push these changes asap not to infect tournament results.
So try to stay updated.
The normal times for changes to happen is:
NA: Tuesday
EU: Wednesday
SEA is Tuesday as well but ofc several hours before NA.
But Blizzard didn't even include the IT nerf in the patch notes, as well as the map changes so they SHOULD diffidently improve on that.
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I'll will post this on the battle.net forums, see if i can get any blue posts. Guess its better to let them know about these things.
About the topic, this shouldnt happen anymore. Our scene is getting bigger and better by the day, and blizzard keeps fucking up, even the basic things like this.
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The thing is, I don't think there's one guy in Blizzard who is consistently going to know the patch is going to be implemented a few days ahead of patch time. Blizzard is a big company and content like balance patches has to go through many avenues before it is deemed ready to be uploaded.
A guy like Dustin Browder has to come up with what is being changed, which then gets passed onto their tech guys to be put into the game code, then it has to be tested, then ultimately sent to someone for final approval.
I'm not saying they couldn't be more open about what they're doing (far from it) but I can understand the hesitancy in announcing the concrete details of a future patch when they are still in the processing stage.
On January 16 2013 00:55 illidan333 wrote:
Kiwikaki !!!!!!!!!!
User was warned for this post
If only.. :D
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You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
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@BrassMonkey27: That makes no sense whatsoever. If Blizzard is in such a disarray, they probably went belly up a long time ago. Heck, any sizable company would go down.
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
It's a pretty big change that only affects one race. They deserve to be notified in advance.
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This is a valid point from Golden. Now I am actually wondering why this wasn't raised as an issue earlier by some other progamer.
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On January 16 2013 01:04 BrassMonkey27 wrote:I'm not saying they couldn't be more open about what they're doing (far from it) but I can understand the hesitancy in announcing the concrete details of a future patch when they are still in the processing stage. Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 00:55 illidan333 wrote:
Kiwikaki !!!!!!!!!!
User was warned for this post If only.. :D
There's nothing difficult about announcing concrete details and meeting dates. It's only blizzard who's been struggling at meeting deadlines. And even then, suppose they finish EVERYTHING besides actually applying the patch on b.net, they can still delay the patch by an additional week to give a formal announce date and patch details. But they don't.
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You know what the worst part is. This might not be the only patch change.
This is the only change we know about so far, there might be more patched which we are still unaware of.
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight.
much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder.
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if i read patch notes correctly:
Bug Fixes
General
Several improvements have been made to address an issue where players would load into a game slightly later than other players. Additional details regarding this are in this forum thread
Fixed an issue that occasionally caused stuttering in the middle of a game.
Fixed a rare issue that caused prevented players launching the patched client without an Internet connection from accessing features in Offline Mode.
Fixed an issue preventing some custom minimap icons from displaying properly in Arcade games.
Editor
The trigger module should no longer stall for long periods of time when adding or removing actions.
Races
Protoss
Structures built within the power field of a Pylon of an ally who disconnects should no longer remain powered when that Pylon is destroyed.
it don't have a single balance change.
I'm missing something?
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Honestly i don't think Blizzard knows that much before when they are going live with a patch.
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On January 16 2013 01:39 mratel wrote:if i read patch notes correctly: Show nested quote +
Bug Fixes
General
Several improvements have been made to address an issue where players would load into a game slightly later than other players. Additional details regarding this are in this forum thread
Fixed an issue that occasionally caused stuttering in the middle of a game.
Fixed a rare issue that caused prevented players launching the patched client without an Internet connection from accessing features in Offline Mode.
Fixed an issue preventing some custom minimap icons from displaying properly in Arcade games.
Editor
The trigger module should no longer stall for long periods of time when adding or removing actions.
Races
Protoss
Structures built within the power field of a Pylon of an ally who disconnects should no longer remain powered when that Pylon is destroyed.
it don't have a single balance change. I'm missing something?
The infested Terran change is not in the Patchnotes. ( Infested T´s now don´t profit from upgrades)
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On January 16 2013 01:39 mratel wrote:if i read patch notes correctly: Show nested quote +
Bug Fixes
General
Several improvements have been made to address an issue where players would load into a game slightly later than other players. Additional details regarding this are in this forum thread
Fixed an issue that occasionally caused stuttering in the middle of a game.
Fixed a rare issue that caused prevented players launching the patched client without an Internet connection from accessing features in Offline Mode.
Fixed an issue preventing some custom minimap icons from displaying properly in Arcade games.
Editor
The trigger module should no longer stall for long periods of time when adding or removing actions.
Races
Protoss
Structures built within the power field of a Pylon of an ally who disconnects should no longer remain powered when that Pylon is destroyed.
it don't have a single balance change. I'm missing something?
The patch notes themselves tell no story in that regard, however I refer you to this thread. Apparently the proposed nerf to infested terrans lowering their eggs' HP to 70 and making them unaffected by upgrades has gone into effect earlier than expected. You can obviously understand why this is detrimental to progamers if it happens on such short notice before a major tournament.
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On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder.
Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way.
I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance.
People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed.
In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well.
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On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder.
Firstly, we all play the same game. I may not play Zerg, but the patch affects me too. Secondly, the point of my football analogy is that pros should not publicly complain. Because they are pros.
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
It might, if it goes the way Blizzard hopes, change the very composition that you want in the end game so I would say its a fairly big deal and definately something you would want to know about.
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On January 16 2013 00:51 misidia wrote:
Well, there are tournaments year round, you can't have them accommodate their patches for everyone.
That's not the point. The point is so progamers can work around the changes while they still have time.
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On January 16 2013 01:46 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Firstly, we all play the same game. I may not play Zerg, but the patch affects me too. Secondly, the point of my football analogy is that pros should not publicly complain. Because they are pros.
1) This changes affects zergs player a lot more than the other races.
2) Even if you don't agree, it is still a liability. A lot of people say that since "the field is leveled", then it is ok. I think they were never involved in something competitive to say something like that... It is clearly not ok if the field is leveled because then the game/sport/whatever becomes random. Nobody can master what they are doing so the lucky one wins. I don't think a competitive person would be "ok" with that...
And about the not ground breaking patch. I remember a lot of people saying the same about the queen patch. So wait and see.
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On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well.
Lol, the sports comparison is so far off. Firstly, comparing to weather is stupid because the weather is not controlled by humans. It would be like players adapting to not ideal ping/lag which they do.
A patch is something determined by Blizzard which changes the rule set of the games. It would be like an NBA game changing to 16 minutes a quarter instead of 15. Do you think they would do that in mid season without warning?
Also, stadiums that have retractable roofs have to tell the opposing team whether the roof will be open or close. Why do you think that is?
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@ golden, I agree.
On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
Most football teams actually practice for different weather conditions (I didn't look at what continent you're posting from, but I'll assume it applies to both sports).
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On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well.
who cares if we all know its coming, its when... Which practice is more effecient? 1000 games on current game, 250 on current game 750 on patch, 500 on patch 500 on current? It all depends on when.... If the patch never comes, all the time you spent preparing for a tournament on the new change, is a waste, all new protoss timings or variety of other defenses against current infestor play will change. You shouldnt have to divide your time inefficiently is the point.
For the football analogy, The rules and changes to rules are announced before way before they get on the field and have several practices before then. weather while it affects the game is entirely even on both sides, predicted and part of the sport. SC2 doesnt rain balance changes every single event, The game is the same and players at the top have everything efficient to work to their design.
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On January 16 2013 01:46 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Firstly, we all play the same game. I may not play Zerg, but the patch affects me too. Secondly, the point of my football analogy is that pros should not publicly complain. Because they are pros.
There is a difference between a buff and a nerf. I doubt Golden would be here if they buffed damage of ITs with the patch. It is true that terrans and Protoss can adjust their gameplay for this nerf as well. But at least if they play the same as pre patch, they will not be at a disadvantage.
And yeah, pro athletes never complain on twitter....
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
I think your metaphor doesn't really work... a better one would be if the football organization (can never tell if people are talking about football or american football) decided to change the rules of the game without advance notice.
Also, what seems like a small problem to you is even bigger problem for a pro... not smaller. Novice players will hardly notice the changes because the margin for victory is so much greater at lower levels.
Also again... not every single player is in the same position... only one race is having serious changes (afaik) so you can hardly say that the field is leveled.
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I remember the patch before NASL 4 came out of nowhere too.It'd be nice to know
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On January 16 2013 01:46 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Firstly, we all play the same game. I may not play Zerg, but the patch affects me too. Secondly, the point of my football analogy is that pros should not publicly complain. Because they are pros.
you ignored everything i said yet responded anyway 
i mostly agree with plansix above you, just makes little sense for there to be a 0-day warning period for patches when even a four or five day notice would go a long way in helping. as far as i can tell, there is no argument against announcing patch dates other than your "you shouldn't need it"
league of legends, for example, dances around this issue by making it possible for tournament organisers, if they so desire, to run their games on a separate tournament realm fitted with an older patch. i haven't heard anyone argue that it's a shitty thing for the game, not even that it's unnecessary. as far as i can tell, it's a Good Thing. i don't get why so many people argue against good ideas on the basis that they don't want them personally :3
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
Wait so you don't actually find his request justified? How in the world...? What he's asking seems pretty reasonable....
Am I missing something here or did something get lost in translation when I read the OP?
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So adorable.
Completely agree though. There should be at least a week grace period for the patch release date. If not that then allow the tournaments to play on the previous patch. I think that would be a better solution as Blizzard can't really accommodate every single tournament or player. Being able to play on a previous version of the game would allow tournaments to be more competitive.
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On January 16 2013 02:02 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. Wait so you don't actually find his request justified? How in the world...? What he's asking seems pretty reasonable.... Am I missing something here or did something get lost in translation when I read the OP?
Not really. All the zergs maybe, but for everyone else they have an advantage. They didn't get any nerfs.
Edit: Oops, these were supposed to be one response : /
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On January 16 2013 01:55 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well. Lol, the sports comparison is so far off. Firstly, comparing to weather is stupid because the weather is not controlled by humans. It would be like players adapting to not ideal ping/lag which they do. A patch is something determined by Blizzard which changes the rule set of the games. It would be like an NBA game changing to 16 minutes a quarter instead of 15. Do you think they would do that in mid season without warning? Also, stadiums that have retractable roofs have to tell the opposing team whether the roof will be open or close. Why do you think that is?
I will agree that Blizzards should have provided a heads up that they planned to ship out the balance patch this week. However, the larger issue is that a rule change is not governed by hardware. What if Blizzard told everyone the day the patch was going to be pushed out, but then their Korean servers had an error and were unable to update for a day or two? Then they would have NA, EU with one set of rules, while Korea has another. It is a difficult position for Blizzard and I don't think we can expect every patch to drop at the exact same time. After all, they can only patch during buisness hours, since you need the staff there to make sure the server does not crap out.
I respect where players are coming from, but problem can be solved by both Blizzard providing dates when they plan to patch, but players and coaches anticipating the patch coming. The days of "Its all Blizzards fault for patching the game before X event," are over. People have enough notice on what is going to change most of the time and the better players/team are going to start planning before the patch hits.
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On January 16 2013 02:02 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. Wait so you don't actually find his request justified? How in the world...? What he's asking seems pretty reasonable.... Am I missing something here or did something get lost in translation when I read the OP?
Yes it is reasonnable, but hte way he did it is a bit uncalled for if you ask me. He should have talked about it with his team, and with blizzard. But on a public forum? Not really the best place to do so.
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Agreed, it would be very convenient and more professional for patch notices to come at least a few days before (and reliably).
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On January 16 2013 02:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:55 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well. Lol, the sports comparison is so far off. Firstly, comparing to weather is stupid because the weather is not controlled by humans. It would be like players adapting to not ideal ping/lag which they do. A patch is something determined by Blizzard which changes the rule set of the games. It would be like an NBA game changing to 16 minutes a quarter instead of 15. Do you think they would do that in mid season without warning? Also, stadiums that have retractable roofs have to tell the opposing team whether the roof will be open or close. Why do you think that is? I will agree that Blizzards should have provided a heads up that they planned to ship out the balance patch this week. However, the larger issue is that a rule change is not governed by hardware. What if Blizzard told everyone the day the patch was going to be pushed out, but then their Korean servers had an error and were unable to update for a day or two? Then they would have NA, EU with one set of rules, while Korea has another. It is a difficult position for Blizzard and I don't think we can expect every patch to drop at the exact same time. After all, they can only patch during buisness hours, since you need the staff there to make sure the server does not crap out. I respect where players are coming from, but problem can be solved by both Blizzard providing dates when they plan to patch, but players and coaches anticipating the patch coming. The days of "Its all Blizzards fault for patching the game before X event," are over. People have enough notice on what is going to change most of the time and the better players/team are going to start planning before the patch hits.
Did you even read OP's post? He was only asking for Blizzard to provide dates as to when they plan to release the patch. Of course, if there are unforeseen issues, then everyone will have to deal with it.
And you better teams/player will plan for patch is not correct either. You don't spend time practicing new builds because a patch 'might' hit. Because you are taking time from your 'old' builds.
Why do you think almost all the tournament have already announced when they are going to switch to HoTS. Do you think it would be fun for the players if they came to the first day of Code S of season 2 and then just found out they are playing HoTS(assuming no previous announcement)? Using your argument, players and teams should be preparing for both WoL and HoTS...
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Yeah this thread was a good idea, I hope it gets better in the future.
Hipster fighting~!
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On January 16 2013 02:42 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Agreed, it would be very convenient and more professional for patch notices to come at least a few days before (and reliably).
Blizzard also needs to make players and teams aware that they can't guarantee that the patch will push out 100% on time. Just being honest and saying "We are going to try for Tuesday, but that might not go as planned because, you know, the internet is a fickle bitch." And players need to be more aware of when patches are comming, rather than saying "I'll deal with it when it gets here."
I bet if both sides pay more attention, the problem will go away on its own.
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I always thought the patch day was obvious.
It's on Tuesday
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On January 16 2013 02:53 Figgy wrote:I always thought the patch day was obvious. It's on Tuesday
Yeah, but did you know it would be this Tuesday or next Tuesday?
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On January 16 2013 02:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:42 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Agreed, it would be very convenient and more professional for patch notices to come at least a few days before (and reliably). Blizzard also needs to make players and teams aware that they can't guarantee that the patch will push out 100% on time. Just being honest and saying "We are going to try for Tuesday, but that might not go as planned because, you know, the internet is a fickle bitch." And players need to be more aware of when patches are comming, rather than saying "I'll deal with it when it gets here." I bet if both sides pay more attention, the problem will go away on its own.
How are players suppose to be more aware when there is no announcement? It is not like Blizzard had to patch this Tuesday. They could easily have done it next week.
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On January 16 2013 02:52 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:35 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:55 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well. Lol, the sports comparison is so far off. Firstly, comparing to weather is stupid because the weather is not controlled by humans. It would be like players adapting to not ideal ping/lag which they do. A patch is something determined by Blizzard which changes the rule set of the games. It would be like an NBA game changing to 16 minutes a quarter instead of 15. Do you think they would do that in mid season without warning? Also, stadiums that have retractable roofs have to tell the opposing team whether the roof will be open or close. Why do you think that is? I will agree that Blizzards should have provided a heads up that they planned to ship out the balance patch this week. However, the larger issue is that a rule change is not governed by hardware. What if Blizzard told everyone the day the patch was going to be pushed out, but then their Korean servers had an error and were unable to update for a day or two? Then they would have NA, EU with one set of rules, while Korea has another. It is a difficult position for Blizzard and I don't think we can expect every patch to drop at the exact same time. After all, they can only patch during buisness hours, since you need the staff there to make sure the server does not crap out. I respect where players are coming from, but problem can be solved by both Blizzard providing dates when they plan to patch, but players and coaches anticipating the patch coming. The days of "Its all Blizzards fault for patching the game before X event," are over. People have enough notice on what is going to change most of the time and the better players/team are going to start planning before the patch hits. Did you even read OP's post? He was only asking for Blizzard to provide dates as to when they plan to release the patch. Of course, if there are unforeseen issues, then everyone will have to deal with it. And you better teams/player will plan for patch is not correct either. You don't spend time practicing new builds because a patch 'might' hit. Because you are taking time from your 'old' builds. Why do you think almost all the tournament have already announced when they are going to switch to HoTS. Do you think it would be fun for the players if they came to the first day of Code S of season 2 and then just found out they are playing HoTS(assuming no previous announcement)? Using your argument, players and teams should be preparing for both WoL and HoTS...
Don't take my arguments and apply them to things I was not talking about. This is about a patch with a single balance change to a single ability, not an expansion. If this was HotS and an event switch over at the last moment, I would have a very different opinion and you know it.
And the player that says "Blizzard is going to nerft infested terrans in the next few weeks, so I can't rely on them as much as I used to. I should practice and try to use them less." and turns that practice into a win when the patch comes out, is the better player. I don't know how you argue that they are not.
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
You are not a pro so please dont assume whether they have a problem adapting or not. He's asking for common courtesy, to be notified of balance changes in a game in which he plays professionally, in which he makes his living on.
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i take it back when i said i mostly agree with plansix
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Totally agree Golden. In the case of the infestor nerf, it's not fair when you build the right number of them (the right number as you know it to be) and realize that fg is a missile and you're missing a lot. Soon you have fewer infestors than you need, they're low on energy, you haven't done as much damage to the enemy, and he's knocking on your door. Not fair.
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On January 16 2013 03:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:52 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 02:35 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:55 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well. Lol, the sports comparison is so far off. Firstly, comparing to weather is stupid because the weather is not controlled by humans. It would be like players adapting to not ideal ping/lag which they do. A patch is something determined by Blizzard which changes the rule set of the games. It would be like an NBA game changing to 16 minutes a quarter instead of 15. Do you think they would do that in mid season without warning? Also, stadiums that have retractable roofs have to tell the opposing team whether the roof will be open or close. Why do you think that is? I will agree that Blizzards should have provided a heads up that they planned to ship out the balance patch this week. However, the larger issue is that a rule change is not governed by hardware. What if Blizzard told everyone the day the patch was going to be pushed out, but then their Korean servers had an error and were unable to update for a day or two? Then they would have NA, EU with one set of rules, while Korea has another. It is a difficult position for Blizzard and I don't think we can expect every patch to drop at the exact same time. After all, they can only patch during buisness hours, since you need the staff there to make sure the server does not crap out. I respect where players are coming from, but problem can be solved by both Blizzard providing dates when they plan to patch, but players and coaches anticipating the patch coming. The days of "Its all Blizzards fault for patching the game before X event," are over. People have enough notice on what is going to change most of the time and the better players/team are going to start planning before the patch hits. Did you even read OP's post? He was only asking for Blizzard to provide dates as to when they plan to release the patch. Of course, if there are unforeseen issues, then everyone will have to deal with it. And you better teams/player will plan for patch is not correct either. You don't spend time practicing new builds because a patch 'might' hit. Because you are taking time from your 'old' builds. Why do you think almost all the tournament have already announced when they are going to switch to HoTS. Do you think it would be fun for the players if they came to the first day of Code S of season 2 and then just found out they are playing HoTS(assuming no previous announcement)? Using your argument, players and teams should be preparing for both WoL and HoTS... Don't take my arguments and apply them to things I was not talking about. This is about a patch with a single balance change to a single ability, not an expansion. If this was HotS and an event switch over at the last moment, I would have a very different opinion and you know it. And the player that says "Blizzard is going to nerft infested terrans in the next few weeks, so I can't rely on them as much as I used to. I should practice and try to use them less." and turns that practice into a win when the patch comes out, is the better player. I don't know how you argue that they are not.
NO. He would be a player that is doing a coin flip because his builds would be not be optimized if the patch didn't go in. Your argument only works if he has enough time to prepare for patch and no patch fully. But this is obviously not the case.
I used the HoTS example because it magnifies the issue. If your argument is that the patch is insignificant, so it is ok that there is no warning, I still think it is a BAD one.
Also find it funny that when a pro player comes here to make this request. Some non pros tell them how pros should deal with it...
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I agree, they should announce patch dates a week ahead of time.
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Golden has a very valid point. Online tourneys rely on the latest patch for it to even happen. In official live events, they usually notify the particular version in which they play in (i think).
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Golden has a very valid point. Online tourneys rely on the latest patch for it to even happen. This obviously affects the preparation which could lead to winning the tourney or losing, especially when a major patch is introduced. (Ghost snipe nerf) In official live events, they usually notify the particular version in which they play in (i think).
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On January 16 2013 03:12 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 03:00 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 02:52 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 02:35 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:55 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well. Lol, the sports comparison is so far off. Firstly, comparing to weather is stupid because the weather is not controlled by humans. It would be like players adapting to not ideal ping/lag which they do. A patch is something determined by Blizzard which changes the rule set of the games. It would be like an NBA game changing to 16 minutes a quarter instead of 15. Do you think they would do that in mid season without warning? Also, stadiums that have retractable roofs have to tell the opposing team whether the roof will be open or close. Why do you think that is? I will agree that Blizzards should have provided a heads up that they planned to ship out the balance patch this week. However, the larger issue is that a rule change is not governed by hardware. What if Blizzard told everyone the day the patch was going to be pushed out, but then their Korean servers had an error and were unable to update for a day or two? Then they would have NA, EU with one set of rules, while Korea has another. It is a difficult position for Blizzard and I don't think we can expect every patch to drop at the exact same time. After all, they can only patch during buisness hours, since you need the staff there to make sure the server does not crap out. I respect where players are coming from, but problem can be solved by both Blizzard providing dates when they plan to patch, but players and coaches anticipating the patch coming. The days of "Its all Blizzards fault for patching the game before X event," are over. People have enough notice on what is going to change most of the time and the better players/team are going to start planning before the patch hits. Did you even read OP's post? He was only asking for Blizzard to provide dates as to when they plan to release the patch. Of course, if there are unforeseen issues, then everyone will have to deal with it. And you better teams/player will plan for patch is not correct either. You don't spend time practicing new builds because a patch 'might' hit. Because you are taking time from your 'old' builds. Why do you think almost all the tournament have already announced when they are going to switch to HoTS. Do you think it would be fun for the players if they came to the first day of Code S of season 2 and then just found out they are playing HoTS(assuming no previous announcement)? Using your argument, players and teams should be preparing for both WoL and HoTS... Don't take my arguments and apply them to things I was not talking about. This is about a patch with a single balance change to a single ability, not an expansion. If this was HotS and an event switch over at the last moment, I would have a very different opinion and you know it. And the player that says "Blizzard is going to nerft infested terrans in the next few weeks, so I can't rely on them as much as I used to. I should practice and try to use them less." and turns that practice into a win when the patch comes out, is the better player. I don't know how you argue that they are not. NO. He would be a player that is doing a coin flip because his builds would be not be optimized if the patch didn't go in. Your argument only works if he has enough time to prepare for patch and no patch fully. But this is obviously not the case. I used the HoTS example because it magnifies the issue. If your argument is that the patch is insignificant, so it is ok that there is no warning, I still think it is a BAD one.
His build where he doesn't have 3/3 on his infested terrans so his free units don't do as much damage and die faster?
Golden makes a valid point that Blizzard don't tell people that they will be patching until the last minute, I'm sure they'd appreciate a bigger heads up going into tournaments especially when bigger changes happen.
SC2 needs a tournament version, but the technology probably isn't there ;;
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On January 16 2013 03:09 ikh wrote:i take it back when i said i mostly agree with plansix
So you totally agree with me? Great!
To be serious, I think Blizzard dropped the ball on this patch or they did didn't mean to push the balance changes out at all. I can't tell which. My main problem isn't with Golden's complaint(which is reasonable), but the idea that players like to blame Blizzard for changing the game right before an event. After nearly three years of SC2 and Blizzard highlighting what is going to be changed in the upcomming patch, I sort of expect teams and players to prepare for it in some way. At some point, I started to ask "Why were you not prepared for this at all? You knew it was coming at some point and you would not get a lot of notice."
But Blizzard did drop the ball by not letting people know the balance changes were comming this week. I can only assume they have a lot going on with patching both WOL and HotS and this slipped through.
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I understand his view and it makes perfect sense.
If there is ANY Balance Change, it affects gameplay noticable to viewers or not, and it'd be nice to say "We have --- patch coming next tue/specified date" It's not very hard for them to make some announcement/thread/post to just say that one line and copy/paste patch notes.
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Let's see...none of the top tier players like Life, Leenock, Nestea, DRG, Stephano, Idra or any other Zerg with actual tournament wins complains about this. I'd say this is just failure to adapt quick enough. He should be able to adapt his SKILL that way he would not have to complain about useless things. Maybe if he won a tournament or two he'd know that patch dates are not necessary. A good player does not need to know before hand. A good player would just adapt to what ever nerfs or buffs and still win.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 16 2013 03:21 EliteSK wrote:
I understand his view and it makes perfect sense.
If there is ANY Balance Change, it affects gameplay noticable to viewers or not, and it'd be nice to say "We have --- patch coming next tue/specified date" It's not very hard for them to make some announcement/thread/post to just say that one line and copy/paste patch notes.
They can easily a news post on the launcher, it would be the perfect place for it to be.
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On January 16 2013 03:22 2muchSWAG wrote:
Let's see...none of the top tier players like Life, Leenock, Nestea, DRG, Stephano, Idra or any other Zerg with actual tournament wins complains about this. I'd say this is just failure to adapt quick enough. He should be able to adapt his SKILL that way he would not have to complain about useless things. Maybe if he won a tournament or two he'd know that patch dates are not necessary. A good player does not need to know before hand. A good player would just adapt to what ever nerfs or buffs and still win.
i can't tell whether this is serious or a fakepost. i'm getting bad with forums i guess.
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Agree with most. Whoever compared a patch with weather is.. beyond rescue. I did not know Blizzard could control weather around the world. We expect a certain level of reasonableness in life, and informing the patch date (if there will be) can only help the community. I don't see any negative of such.
Not only the uncertainty makes progamers life difficult, but what I don't like about game developers (not just Blizzard) is that often times they change certain things deliberately and do not mention in the patch notes. Those practices need to be called out, too.
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blizzard has some very weird patch schedule, like fruitdealer's road to finals. i dont know if the ultralisk bug was during semi or final, but that shit was rediculous
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On January 16 2013 03:25 ikh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 03:22 2muchSWAG wrote:
Let's see...none of the top tier players like Life, Leenock, Nestea, DRG, Stephano, Idra or any other Zerg with actual tournament wins complains about this. I'd say this is just failure to adapt quick enough. He should be able to adapt his SKILL that way he would not have to complain about useless things. Maybe if he won a tournament or two he'd know that patch dates are not necessary. A good player does not need to know before hand. A good player would just adapt to what ever nerfs or buffs and still win. i can't tell whether this is serious or a fakepost. i'm getting bad with forums i guess.
Me neither. I'm logging off and getting out to lunch. What an idiotic post (the one you quoted)
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Cool! Golden is on TL! Good post, and the english was not bad at all. You are totally right, even delaying a patch by couple of days in order to give advance notice would be better than just surprising everyone at a tournament.
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On January 16 2013 00:45 Golden wrote:
thanks . sorry for noob english <3
Even with your Silver League English, we all understood.
Unfortunately Blizzard could do a lot of things to make life easier for everyone, but doesn't (a good start would be listening to the community more). Would be pretty awesome if they released patch dates for pro-gamers and tournament organizers though wouldn't it...
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Did you read his post? Adapting to these kind of changes will take time to figure out more optimal builds etc, you won't just do it in a few hours. I also have no idea why you think "every single progamer" is playing zerg all of a sudden.
They should definately announce these kind of changes in advance instead of just applying them over a night.
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On January 16 2013 03:43 Zheryn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled. Did you read his post? Adapting to these kind of changes will take time to figure out more optimal builds etc, you won't just do it in a few hours. I also have no idea why you think "every single progamer" is playing zerg all of a sudden. They should definately announce these kind of changes in advance instead of just applying them over a night.
Exactly why he hasn't won a tournament nor is he a top tier Zerg. He can't adapt as fast as a Leenock or Life would. I am not saying GOLDEN IS A BAD PLAYER by any means, just saying he is a slow thinking player.
Just like how in school there are students who figure things out relatively fast, and there are students who are slow as hell, but that does not mean that THE SLOW STUDENTS ARE RETARDED FAILURES WITH NO FUTURE. Everyone is different, some take longer to adapt and some take less time.
Golden is one of those who take forever to adapt to even the smallest changes.
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France12909 Posts
Wow the IdrA swag troll is on this topic too! What an honor.
Regarding the topic, maybe they should give different sc2 versions to the big tourneys organizers, in which you can chose the patch you will play on?
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It would definitely be nice for this to happen, but it depends heavily on the process behind patching. If, for instance, they launch out patches as soon as possible, it may be hard for them to predict when the patch comes out well in advance and know what the patch will entail.
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Brunei Darussalam566 Posts
On January 16 2013 03:49 2muchSWAG wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 03:43 Zheryn wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled. Did you read his post? Adapting to these kind of changes will take time to figure out more optimal builds etc, you won't just do it in a few hours. I also have no idea why you think "every single progamer" is playing zerg all of a sudden. They should definately announce these kind of changes in advance instead of just applying them over a night. Exactly why he hasn't won a tournament nor is he a top tier Zerg. He can't adapt as fast as a Leenock or Life would. I am not saying GOLDEN IS A BAD PLAYER by any means, just saying he is a slow thinking player. Just like how in school there are students who figure things out relatively fast, and there are students who are slow as hell, but that does not mean that THE SLOW STUDENTS ARE RETARDED FAILURES WITH NO FUTURE. Everyone is different, some take longer to adapt and some take less time. Golden is one of those who take forever to adapt to even the smallest changes.
I'd be interested in finding out how you consider yourself able to judge which progamers are "fast" or "slow" to adapt to certain balace patches. It's fair to say that the IT upgrade nerf is quite significant, and it's totally understable why a professional, whose livelihood depends on playing the game optimally, wants a decent amount of time in order to adapt his play accordingly.
If you disagree with Golden, you are free to say so and post your arguments, but mindlessly "bashing" on his skills is completely useless and offensive.
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On January 16 2013 03:08 ninjamyst wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. You are not a pro so please dont assume whether they have a problem adapting or not. He's asking for common courtesy, to be notified of balance changes in a game in which he plays professionally, in which he makes his living on.
which he's doing on a public forum which doesn't matter at all. post it on b.net forums or you're literally just whining about it. i completely agree there should be notification of when the patch will be, but he's going about it all wrong.
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I don't understand why would some people believe that only Zerg players need to adapt to this patch. This change affects every single Z matchup, whether it be ZvZ, ZvP or ZvT. This patch modifies Zerg strategy in the 3 matchups; the Protoss & Terran players will have to react to this, and adapt to these modified strategies.
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
The problem with this thought process is that different patches affect different races differently due to matchups. Allow me to provide examples.
Mirror match up, one race nerfed: Minimal advantage, both sides affected equally. Different skills may be required to win, such as innovation, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Mirror match up, one race buffed: same as above.
Non-mirror match up, one race nerfed: Depending on the degree of the nerf: one side may have it's standard strategies affected adversely, thus requiring significant innovation on their part to reach their former glory quickly, with no such burden on the opposing team.
Non-mirror match up, one race buffed: Same as the above, but with the added effect of the buffed side finding their own strategies easier to perform while the other side finds theirs harder.
So you see, it is not like football players complaining about rain since a patch might have, say, significantly changed ZvT on the Zerg's side, thus significantly impairing the Zerg and not the Terran.
Patches are not inherently fair in that regard. They screw different races over differently, not equally.
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Yay, a Korean pro posted on TL
I completely agree though, I know Blizzard didn't intend to time this with IEM Katowice but it's still not good, they should at least add a test map or slam a release date on it. However, it's not a huge change and it's not something massively needed to adapt to, but that's just my input.
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On January 16 2013 03:49 2muchSWAG wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 03:43 Zheryn wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled. Did you read his post? Adapting to these kind of changes will take time to figure out more optimal builds etc, you won't just do it in a few hours. I also have no idea why you think "every single progamer" is playing zerg all of a sudden. They should definately announce these kind of changes in advance instead of just applying them over a night. Exactly why he hasn't won a tournament nor is he a top tier Zerg. He can't adapt as fast as a Leenock or Life would. I am not saying GOLDEN IS A BAD PLAYER by any means, just saying he is a slow thinking player. Just like how in school there are students who figure things out relatively fast, and there are students who are slow as hell, but that does not mean that THE SLOW STUDENTS ARE RETARDED FAILURES WITH NO FUTURE. Everyone is different, some take longer to adapt and some take less time. Golden is one of those who take forever to adapt to even the smallest changes.
it doesnt matter on the pro's skill level. if patches come unnoticed, any pro would be "wtf!?" about it. golden decided to say that public via tl instead of complaining inhouse among teammates. your attempt at separating golden with other pros is fucking laughable when it is completely irrelevant, just like your student anology, wtf are you trying to prove?
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@Golden it would be better if you asked this at Battlenet forums instead in my honest opinion.
Sorry !
On January 16 2013 04:07 Al Bundy wrote:
I don't understand why would some people believe that only Zerg players need to adapt to this patch. This change affects every single Z matchup, whether it be ZvZ, ZvP or ZvT. This patch modifies Zerg strategy in the 3 matchups; the Protoss & Terran players will have to react to this, and adapt to these modified strategies.
Exactly, it would also make for better games for us to watch since progamers could have time to refine (maybe) slightly different strategies, specially when it comes to lategame, something that would be quite interesting right now.
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On January 16 2013 04:07 Al Bundy wrote:
I don't understand why would some people believe that only Zerg players need to adapt to this patch. This change affects every single Z matchup, whether it be ZvZ, ZvP or ZvT. This patch modifies Zerg strategy in the 3 matchups; the Protoss & Terran players will have to react to this, and adapt to these modified strategies.
This doesn't change TvZ beyond making BCs super slightly more effective in late-late game
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On January 16 2013 04:16 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:07 Al Bundy wrote:
I don't understand why would some people believe that only Zerg players need to adapt to this patch. This change affects every single Z matchup, whether it be ZvZ, ZvP or ZvT. This patch modifies Zerg strategy in the 3 matchups; the Protoss & Terran players will have to react to this, and adapt to these modified strategies. This doesn't change TvZ beyond making BCs super slightly more effective in late-late game
MECH?!?!?
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I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place.
Now if you want Blizzard to have two cycles of patches, one for bug fixing and one for balancing then that's a different issue however I really doubt they would want to do that. But the issue is that nowadays there are so many different tournaments that it's almost impossible to make everybody happy with a balance patch release date. I think it's just better not to announce it and they did say this was going to happen about a week ago.
I can understand the frustration from a programer's perspective but I don't see anything wrong with what Blizzard is doing.
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Honestly I was surprised no pro hasn't spoken out about this before.
The best solution is probably allowing the tournaments to play at the last balance patch if the new patch is released during/a few days before the tournament begins.
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I'm sorry for that weather analogy. That was a really poor way to get my point across.
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Does anyone seriously still believe that Blizzard cares about e-sports? There are people whose entire lives depend on their performance in this game and the company doesn't even think to inform them of the dates for impending balance changes?
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On January 16 2013 04:16 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:07 Al Bundy wrote:
I don't understand why would some people believe that only Zerg players need to adapt to this patch. This change affects every single Z matchup, whether it be ZvZ, ZvP or ZvT. This patch modifies Zerg strategy in the 3 matchups; the Protoss & Terran players will have to react to this, and adapt to these modified strategies. This doesn't change TvZ beyond making BCs super slightly more effective in late-late game
This doesn't change anything beyond making infested terrans marginally weaker. People are still going to spray them everywhere
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On January 16 2013 04:07 Al Bundy wrote:
I don't understand why would some people believe that only Zerg players need to adapt to this patch. This change affects every single Z matchup, whether it be ZvZ, ZvP or ZvT. This patch modifies Zerg strategy in the 3 matchups; the Protoss & Terran players will have to react to this, and adapt to these modified strategies.
Yeah, it affects zerg in every matchup yet it affects terran and protoss on only one matchup, and you don't understand how it's going to be a disadvantage for zerg? And as for your previous posts, what does it matter if you're a professional player or just like anyone else when a game you're playing changes? And it's quite unlikely that goldens first and only choice on getting some information on the matter has been to post it on a forum that uses a language he has only basic grasp of, the day before he heads out to a tournament that might or might not have the same game he has been practicing with. Why are you anyways so negative about this proposion?
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
bullshit, all he asks for is just a specific day. At least if Blizz wanted to apply the patch today, why couldn't they just announced it 1-2 days earlier? Or are they just apply the patch whenever they have free time?
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On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place.
i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global.
if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way.
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I can see this being very aggravating. Anyone who thinks "it's just a small change, you'll adapt day-of" is not giving enough consideration to specific preparation and strategy. This stuff definitely matters...
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On January 16 2013 04:13 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. The problem with this thought process is that different patches affect different races differently due to matchups. Allow me to provide examples. Mirror match up, one race nerfed: Minimal advantage, both sides affected equally. Different skills may be required to win, such as innovation, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. Mirror match up, one race buffed: same as above. Non-mirror match up, one race nerfed: Depending on the degree of the nerf: one side may have it's standard strategies affected adversely, thus requiring significant innovation on their part to reach their former glory quickly, with no such burden on the opposing team. Non-mirror match up, one race buffed: Same as the above, but with the added effect of the buffed side finding their own strategies easier to perform while the other side finds theirs harder. So you see, it is not like football players complaining about rain since a patch might have, say, significantly changed ZvT on the Zerg's side, thus significantly impairing the Zerg and not the Terran. Patches are not inherently fair in that regard. They screw different races over differently, not equally.
You should tell that to Creator 
Anyways, yes Zergs will have to adapt on 3 matchups, while other races on 1. Nobody can argue that the disadvantadge is bigger for zergs, but that doesn't mean that the other races don't have to adapt neither.
On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place.
Now if you want Blizzard to have two cycles of patches, one for bug fixing and one for balancing then that's a different issue however I really doubt they would want to do that. But the issue is that nowadays there are so many different tournaments that it's almost impossible to make everybody happy with a balance patch release date. I think it's just better not to announce it and they did say this was going to happen about a week ago.
I can understand the frustration from a programer's perspective but I don't see anything wrong with what Blizzard is doing.
This is complete bullcrap. The patch had been already implemented on SEA, and they SHOULD do this since they focused this game to be an esports and you need to announce when the changes are going to be done so they will be able to see if they will have to adapt for their next match or not, specially if we are talking of leagues like GSL.
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now i understand. but as this isn't in a patch notes i think its error on blizzard side.
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On January 16 2013 04:35 ikh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place. i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global. if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way.
Yes you said it yourself Blizzard is a big company with lots of bureaucracy, that's not gonna change. If this were a small company then yes it would be more feasible but the number of steps it takes to release a patch is probably ridiculous. I'm just saying with big software companies it's really hard to release a patch and not trivial.
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On January 16 2013 04:44 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:13 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. The problem with this thought process is that different patches affect different races differently due to matchups. Allow me to provide examples. Mirror match up, one race nerfed: Minimal advantage, both sides affected equally. Different skills may be required to win, such as innovation, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. Mirror match up, one race buffed: same as above. Non-mirror match up, one race nerfed: Depending on the degree of the nerf: one side may have it's standard strategies affected adversely, thus requiring significant innovation on their part to reach their former glory quickly, with no such burden on the opposing team. Non-mirror match up, one race buffed: Same as the above, but with the added effect of the buffed side finding their own strategies easier to perform while the other side finds theirs harder. So you see, it is not like football players complaining about rain since a patch might have, say, significantly changed ZvT on the Zerg's side, thus significantly impairing the Zerg and not the Terran. Patches are not inherently fair in that regard. They screw different races over differently, not equally. You should tell that to Creator Anyways, yes Zergs will have to adapt on 3 matchups, while other races on 1. Nobody can argue that the disadvantadge is bigger for zergs, but that doesn't mean that the other races don't have to adapt neither.
In most circumstances, they don't have to adapt though. The onus is on the nerfed race to overcome their disadvantage, the other race just has to use their standard play to crush their opponents' half-assed and futile attempts at innovation.
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On January 16 2013 04:55 Albinoswordfish wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:35 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place. i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global. if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way. Yes you said it yourself Blizzard is a big company with lots of bureaucracy, that's not gonna change. If this were a small company then yes it would be more feasible but the number of steps it takes to release a patch is probably ridiculous. I'm just saying with big software companies it's really hard to release a patch and not trivial.
what you seem to be saying is that patch dates are arbitrary, or at least strongly subject to change because of that long, bureaucratic patching process. they are neither. that's at odds with the whole concept of methodical and bureaucratic, which you agreed the company is bogged down by. it's hard to believe that there have been any significant changes made to 1.5.4 in the last two weeks or so, because those changes need "official" clearance and testing for the patch's release to be even considered, much less confirmed. and once that release date is set, it takes a lot for it to be changed, to the point that hotfixing minor bugs will be chosen over last minute changes and delays.
i'm quite confident in guessing over 80% of balance/content patches blizzard has released for its games since early days of world of warcraft have been on the company's semi-official patch day, which is "around" tuesday depending on time zone.
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Canada13401 Posts
But, this patch doesnt actually have any balance changes in it atm
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On January 16 2013 05:07 ikh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:55 Albinoswordfish wrote:On January 16 2013 04:35 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place. i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global. if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way. Yes you said it yourself Blizzard is a big company with lots of bureaucracy, that's not gonna change. If this were a small company then yes it would be more feasible but the number of steps it takes to release a patch is probably ridiculous. I'm just saying with big software companies it's really hard to release a patch and not trivial. what you seem to be saying is that patch dates are arbitrary, or at least strongly subject to change because of that long, bureaucratic patching process. they are neither. that's at odds with the whole concept of methodical and bureaucratic, which you agreed the company is bogged down by. it's hard to believe that there have been any significant changes made to 1.5.4 in the last two weeks or so, because those changes need "official" clearance and testing for the patch's release to be even considered, much less confirmed. and once that release date is set, it takes a lot for it to be changed, to the point that hotfixing minor bugs will be chosen over last minute changes and delays. i'm quite confident in guessing over 80% of balance/content patches blizzard has released for its games since early days of world of warcraft have been on the company's semi-official patch day, which is "around" tuesday depending on time zone.
Pretty much, everything else had been hotfixes.
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On January 16 2013 05:07 ikh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:55 Albinoswordfish wrote:On January 16 2013 04:35 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place. i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global. if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way. Yes you said it yourself Blizzard is a big company with lots of bureaucracy, that's not gonna change. If this were a small company then yes it would be more feasible but the number of steps it takes to release a patch is probably ridiculous. I'm just saying with big software companies it's really hard to release a patch and not trivial. what you seem to be saying is that patch dates are arbitrary, or at least strongly subject to change because of that long, bureaucratic patching process. they are neither. that's at odds with the whole concept of methodical and bureaucratic, which you agreed the company is bogged down by. it's hard to believe that there have been any significant changes made to 1.5.4 in the last two weeks or so, because those changes need "official" clearance and testing for the patch's release to be even considered, much less confirmed. and once that release date is set, it takes a lot for it to be changed, to the point that hotfixing minor bugs will be chosen over last minute changes and delays. i'm quite confident in guessing over 80% of balance/content patches blizzard has released for its games since early days of world of warcraft have been on the company's semi-official patch day, which is "around" tuesday depending on time zone.
From what I've seen from Blizzard I don't think they impose hard release dates. How many times has a game release by Blizzard been delayed by months. Unless we work at Blizzard we'll never know what's going on behind the scenes. I'm not saying it's not a good request to ask for patch release dates but if they don't give one or an accurate one I'm not gonna be too upset over it.
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On January 16 2013 05:34 Albinoswordfish wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 05:07 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:55 Albinoswordfish wrote:On January 16 2013 04:35 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place. i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global. if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way. Yes you said it yourself Blizzard is a big company with lots of bureaucracy, that's not gonna change. If this were a small company then yes it would be more feasible but the number of steps it takes to release a patch is probably ridiculous. I'm just saying with big software companies it's really hard to release a patch and not trivial. what you seem to be saying is that patch dates are arbitrary, or at least strongly subject to change because of that long, bureaucratic patching process. they are neither. that's at odds with the whole concept of methodical and bureaucratic, which you agreed the company is bogged down by. it's hard to believe that there have been any significant changes made to 1.5.4 in the last two weeks or so, because those changes need "official" clearance and testing for the patch's release to be even considered, much less confirmed. and once that release date is set, it takes a lot for it to be changed, to the point that hotfixing minor bugs will be chosen over last minute changes and delays. i'm quite confident in guessing over 80% of balance/content patches blizzard has released for its games since early days of world of warcraft have been on the company's semi-official patch day, which is "around" tuesday depending on time zone. From what I've seen from Blizzard I don't think they impose hard release dates. How many times has a game release by Blizzard been delayed by months. Unless we work at Blizzard we'll never know what's going on behind the scenes. I'm not saying it's not a good request to ask for patch release dates but if they don't give one or an accurate one I'm not gonna be too upset over it.
my post claimed the exact opposite, so i guess your response leaves us at a standstill!
e: but to respond to the "how often": depends. either never or sometimes depending on whether you go by release estimates or release dates. can't remember them missing one of the latter, and even if they did that's not very relevant when talking patch releases. they're nothing alike to game releases. no offense, but blizzard is not a magical entity that operates on its own set of rules that can only be described as blizzard-like. they're a big ass company and there's pretty much only one way they can and could work (especially looking at the people who run the company), and that's along the lines i described in my last post :3 unless they become valve or something!
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On January 16 2013 05:41 ikh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 05:34 Albinoswordfish wrote:On January 16 2013 05:07 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:55 Albinoswordfish wrote:On January 16 2013 04:35 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place. i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global. if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way. Yes you said it yourself Blizzard is a big company with lots of bureaucracy, that's not gonna change. If this were a small company then yes it would be more feasible but the number of steps it takes to release a patch is probably ridiculous. I'm just saying with big software companies it's really hard to release a patch and not trivial. what you seem to be saying is that patch dates are arbitrary, or at least strongly subject to change because of that long, bureaucratic patching process. they are neither. that's at odds with the whole concept of methodical and bureaucratic, which you agreed the company is bogged down by. it's hard to believe that there have been any significant changes made to 1.5.4 in the last two weeks or so, because those changes need "official" clearance and testing for the patch's release to be even considered, much less confirmed. and once that release date is set, it takes a lot for it to be changed, to the point that hotfixing minor bugs will be chosen over last minute changes and delays. i'm quite confident in guessing over 80% of balance/content patches blizzard has released for its games since early days of world of warcraft have been on the company's semi-official patch day, which is "around" tuesday depending on time zone. From what I've seen from Blizzard I don't think they impose hard release dates. How many times has a game release by Blizzard been delayed by months. Unless we work at Blizzard we'll never know what's going on behind the scenes. I'm not saying it's not a good request to ask for patch release dates but if they don't give one or an accurate one I'm not gonna be too upset over it. my post claimed the exact opposite, so i guess your response leaves us at a standstill!
Haha I guess so, oh well let's see what Blizzard does to see who's right.
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Nothing will go wrong Golden, we are cheering for you and there are 0 enormous balance changes in this one. I have a lot of confidence in you to be fine, and I am sure the rest of us agree that you will be fine <3.
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On January 16 2013 04:32 Taters_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:07 Al Bundy wrote:
I don't understand why would some people believe that only Zerg players need to adapt to this patch. This change affects every single Z matchup, whether it be ZvZ, ZvP or ZvT. This patch modifies Zerg strategy in the 3 matchups; the Protoss & Terran players will have to react to this, and adapt to these modified strategies. Yeah, it affects zerg in every matchup yet it affects terran and protoss on only one matchup, and you don't understand how it's going to be a disadvantage for zerg? And as for your previous posts, what does it matter if you're a professional player or just like anyone else when a game you're playing changes? And it's quite unlikely that goldens first and only choice on getting some information on the matter has been to post it on a forum that uses a language he has only basic grasp of, the day before he heads out to a tournament that might or might not have the same game he has been practicing with. Why are you anyways so negative about this proposion?
I'm sorry, there seems to be a misunderstanding. Some people seemed to think that Zerg and ONLY Zerg players were going to be affected by the patch. Of course it's going to be a disadvantage to Zerg, because they'll have a harder time adapting to these changes, that's undeniable.
Also I'm not really so negative about this proposition, it's just that if I were a pro, I wouldn't complain on a public forum, that's all.
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
Actually it's more like this:
The football players prepare with their usual training for the week before the superbowl. When they arrive to play the game the ref's tell them that passes over 30 yards are not allowed anymore. Team A has a above average quarterback and an average running back, Team B has a mediocre quarterback and a sweet running back.
Team A with the slightly above average quarterback has been working on passing plays mainly as it is their strong-suit.
Team B with the slightly above average running back works more-so on that style of play.'
It is to Team B's advantage that the pass rule was nerf'd. If Team A knew about the change in the rules weeks before the game they would have prepared different scheme's so they would be better situated for the change in the game.
Perhaps Golden is more inclined to prepare a certain way for one patch, and would prepare in a different way for a different patch
Very valid concern IMO.
Maybe you are just a bit jealous of his accomplishments? I know I am. It's ok bro, it's ok.
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On January 16 2013 06:06 Mo0Rauder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. Actually it's more like this: The football players prepare with their usual training for the week before the superbowl. When they arrive to play the game the ref's tell them that passes over 30 yards are not allowed anymore. Team A has a above average quarterback and an average running back, Team B has a mediocre quarterback and a sweet running back. Team A with the slightly above average quarterback has been working on passing plays mainly as it is their strong-suit. Team B with the slightly above average running back works more-so on that style of play.' It is to Team B's advantage that the pass rule was nerf'd. If Team A knew about the change in the rules weeks before the game they would have prepared different scheme's so they would be better situated for the change in the game. Perhaps Golden is more inclined to prepare a certain way for one patch, and would prepare in a different way for a different patch Very valid concern IMO. Maybe you are just a bit jealous of his accomplishments? I know I am. It's ok bro, it's ok.
Why don't you read the thread before replying to an obsolete post? I already apologized for that one.
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On January 16 2013 06:08 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 06:06 Mo0Rauder wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. Actually it's more like this: The football players prepare with their usual training for the week before the superbowl. When they arrive to play the game the ref's tell them that passes over 30 yards are not allowed anymore. Team A has a above average quarterback and an average running back, Team B has a mediocre quarterback and a sweet running back. Team A with the slightly above average quarterback has been working on passing plays mainly as it is their strong-suit. Team B with the slightly above average running back works more-so on that style of play.' It is to Team B's advantage that the pass rule was nerf'd. If Team A knew about the change in the rules weeks before the game they would have prepared different scheme's so they would be better situated for the change in the game. Perhaps Golden is more inclined to prepare a certain way for one patch, and would prepare in a different way for a different patch Very valid concern IMO. Maybe you are just a bit jealous of his accomplishments? I know I am. It's ok bro, it's ok. Why don't you read the thread before replying to an obsolete post? I already apologized for that one.
I never said you had to apologize sir, just giving my take.
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On January 16 2013 06:05 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:32 Taters_ wrote:On January 16 2013 04:07 Al Bundy wrote:
I don't understand why would some people believe that only Zerg players need to adapt to this patch. This change affects every single Z matchup, whether it be ZvZ, ZvP or ZvT. This patch modifies Zerg strategy in the 3 matchups; the Protoss & Terran players will have to react to this, and adapt to these modified strategies. Yeah, it affects zerg in every matchup yet it affects terran and protoss on only one matchup, and you don't understand how it's going to be a disadvantage for zerg? And as for your previous posts, what does it matter if you're a professional player or just like anyone else when a game you're playing changes? And it's quite unlikely that goldens first and only choice on getting some information on the matter has been to post it on a forum that uses a language he has only basic grasp of, the day before he heads out to a tournament that might or might not have the same game he has been practicing with. Why are you anyways so negative about this proposion? Also I'm not really so negative about this proposition, it's just that if I were a pro, I wouldn't complain on a public forum, that's all.
if that's what you meant, then you could've saved us all a lot of trouble and said something along those lines instead of belittling the issue and talking football & weather
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It should also be noted that Golden isn't complaining about balance as most "pro's" do when they complain about the game. He just wants to know when the patch is coming out so he can prepare properly for the "sport" he makes his living off of.
If I got on a plane and flew to a convention to give a speech about XYZ, I would not expect to show up and then have to give a speech on YXZ. I wouldn't be prepared for it. Even if the change affected everyone giving speeches it wouldn't be fair to the people at the conference who have to listen and watch all these speeches that make no sense at all.
The performers have to prepare for exactly what they are expecting, it's not fair to them, or the viewers if it's any other way.
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On January 16 2013 06:12 Mo0Rauder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 06:08 Al Bundy wrote:On January 16 2013 06:06 Mo0Rauder wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. Actually it's more like this: The football players prepare with their usual training for the week before the superbowl. When they arrive to play the game the ref's tell them that passes over 30 yards are not allowed anymore. Team A has a above average quarterback and an average running back, Team B has a mediocre quarterback and a sweet running back. Team A with the slightly above average quarterback has been working on passing plays mainly as it is their strong-suit. Team B with the slightly above average running back works more-so on that style of play.' It is to Team B's advantage that the pass rule was nerf'd. If Team A knew about the change in the rules weeks before the game they would have prepared different scheme's so they would be better situated for the change in the game. Perhaps Golden is more inclined to prepare a certain way for one patch, and would prepare in a different way for a different patch Very valid concern IMO. Maybe you are just a bit jealous of his accomplishments? I know I am. It's ok bro, it's ok. Why don't you read the thread before replying to an obsolete post? I already apologized for that one. I never said you had to apologize sir, just giving my take.
Well your take makes a lot of sense, I appreciate it.
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If you guys haven't noticed, there has been little to no announcements regarding game changes and patches. Blizzard is definitely dropping the ball.
I understand why Zerg players find this annoying though. Infested Terran change is a huge change for them.
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holy shit, i really like like this thread. not only is it the first time that i see a progamer from korea post such a rather long thread, but also is it pretty shit indeed. well, i would be surprised if blizzard changes in this regard.
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Speaking of the devil, infestors get nerfed 3 days before IEM link
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In theory, if a patch nerfs your race, then you have been favored with that imbalance in past tourneys. So is fine.
Also is imposible to "predict" imbalances. Once the imbalance is confirmed, it should be patched right away. And btw, Blizzard usually is VERY slow to confirm pretty obvious imbalances ¬¬
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Even they don't know when it will go live. How can they notice us. An example is the Diablo 3 1.0.7 blog article went live last friday afternoon, but even in that afternoon, people at Blizzard still said in the forum that they are not sure when it will come out.
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It wasn't in the patch notes because it wasn't part of the actual patch. Rather it was implemeted live which they can do with such small changes.
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agreed, but i don't think this is the right place to complain. battle.net forums should be more effective.
edit: to go further in detail: I don't know about patches itself. I don't think it is needed that every patch should be announced or whatever. I do think, however, that change with regard to balance should be communicated early compared to other changes, announce it maybe when logging in a few days before the actual patch. In this case, the actual patch (or balance change, or how one wants to call it) could've been implemented 2 days after the decision to implement the patch, purely for communicational purposes.
On January 16 2013 07:32 KawaiiRice wrote:
blizzard already has a history of patching right before big tournaments multiple times... I went into one MLG with only a speed reaper expo build TvP.. got off the plane and friend texts me reaper speed required a factory. #yolo i'm very sorry, but this made me laugh a little bit. Reminds me a bit of murphy's law.
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Despite the strong reason why they should there is a reason why Blizzard doesnt typically announce patch dates in advance For WoW you typically do get about 2 weeks notice for major patches if you pay attention but for SC2 you are typically blindsided and the reason for both is that if they announce the date then decide to delay the patch by a week for various reasons then they would take heat for that as well.
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It would be cool to know the patch date but with tournaments 24/7 I doubt this would actually fix the problem.
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yeah if Blizzard could inform progamers a little bit sooner... that'd be great
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blizzard already has a history of patching right before big tournaments multiple times... I went into one MLG with only a speed reaper expo build TvP.. got off the plane and friend texts me reaper speed required a factory. #yolo
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well i agree with you golden, blizzard need to tell when they are going to patch.
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Yeah i would like to see this for pro gamers. It will help them know when it will be out before tournaments.
Blizzard should do this. Makes it easier for pros.
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1) It was released as testable on a map... not sure if they said "We plan on making this a live change on Tuesday". They should, or in the days leading up to the live change, they need to make sure that's more clear
2) It's the responsibility of the manager to effectively communicate to the players when this is going on.
3) Anything else I'm missing here?
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On January 16 2013 08:20 Ero-Sennin wrote:
1) It was released as testable on a map... not sure if they said "We plan on making this a live change on Tuesday". They should, or in the days leading up to the live change, they need to make sure that's more clear
2) It's the responsibility of the manager to effectively communicate to the players when this is going on.
3) Anything else I'm missing here?
That was kind of goldens post, He didnt know which version to practice on and prepare for because he didnt know which version was going to be used. He even said he would have played the test map more if he knew. They never announced when, or even hinted at it besides, a TLDR we are going to release a testmap and essentially the whole blizzard soon(tm)...
As far as managers go, They probably didnt know either, as it was blizzards decision. Which is why it should be made more clear when blizzard is making a change. Granted yes everyone knew odds are that the change was coming soon, but when? Could have been last week, this week, next week, 2 weeks from now etc... But its a waste of time to practice with something the tournament your competing in isnt using.
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On January 16 2013 03:18 Skytt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 03:12 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 03:00 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 02:52 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 02:35 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:55 vthree wrote:On January 16 2013 01:46 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2013 01:32 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. this patch doesn't come with a leveled playing field where everyone is in the same situation, it's beneficial to two of the three races. i'm not sure you properly appreciate how significant the change in this patch is for late game zerg infestor play. and your metaphor isn't exactly fitting as football is not a game subject to semi-regular balance changes. i would expect football players to be clamoring for advance notice if the size of the field or the goal, or maybe the weight of the ball or the duration of the periods were to be changed overnight. much like all balance patches to sc2, this changes the way the game is played. asking to know when these changes happen is not a request made to make progamers' lives easier. it's to not make it harder. Although I understand Golden’s point of view, this patch was telegraphed for weeks and Blizzard rarely gives notice of when they patch. DB tweeted that they were going to look at the infestor after holiday break several weeks age. DK posted the proposed changes recently as well. Although Golden did not know exactly when the change is coming, players knew it was on the way. I really feel that some of the burden falls on players to anticipate a patch coming and adjust their play around it. Also, coaches and teams need to try to stay up to date on this stuff, rather than relying on blizzard notify every professional gamer or post their patch date in advance. People comparing a new patch to weather in a live sports event are close to the mark. Some teams play in domes and don’t need to worry about weather. However, they can’t complain when they fly to an away game and it is raining. Zergs knew the nerf was coming and even knew what was likely to be changed. In short, it would be nice, but professionals need to prepare for patches as well. Lol, the sports comparison is so far off. Firstly, comparing to weather is stupid because the weather is not controlled by humans. It would be like players adapting to not ideal ping/lag which they do. A patch is something determined by Blizzard which changes the rule set of the games. It would be like an NBA game changing to 16 minutes a quarter instead of 15. Do you think they would do that in mid season without warning? Also, stadiums that have retractable roofs have to tell the opposing team whether the roof will be open or close. Why do you think that is? I will agree that Blizzards should have provided a heads up that they planned to ship out the balance patch this week. However, the larger issue is that a rule change is not governed by hardware. What if Blizzard told everyone the day the patch was going to be pushed out, but then their Korean servers had an error and were unable to update for a day or two? Then they would have NA, EU with one set of rules, while Korea has another. It is a difficult position for Blizzard and I don't think we can expect every patch to drop at the exact same time. After all, they can only patch during buisness hours, since you need the staff there to make sure the server does not crap out. I respect where players are coming from, but problem can be solved by both Blizzard providing dates when they plan to patch, but players and coaches anticipating the patch coming. The days of "Its all Blizzards fault for patching the game before X event," are over. People have enough notice on what is going to change most of the time and the better players/team are going to start planning before the patch hits. Did you even read OP's post? He was only asking for Blizzard to provide dates as to when they plan to release the patch. Of course, if there are unforeseen issues, then everyone will have to deal with it. And you better teams/player will plan for patch is not correct either. You don't spend time practicing new builds because a patch 'might' hit. Because you are taking time from your 'old' builds. Why do you think almost all the tournament have already announced when they are going to switch to HoTS. Do you think it would be fun for the players if they came to the first day of Code S of season 2 and then just found out they are playing HoTS(assuming no previous announcement)? Using your argument, players and teams should be preparing for both WoL and HoTS... Don't take my arguments and apply them to things I was not talking about. This is about a patch with a single balance change to a single ability, not an expansion. If this was HotS and an event switch over at the last moment, I would have a very different opinion and you know it. And the player that says "Blizzard is going to nerft infested terrans in the next few weeks, so I can't rely on them as much as I used to. I should practice and try to use them less." and turns that practice into a win when the patch comes out, is the better player. I don't know how you argue that they are not. NO. He would be a player that is doing a coin flip because his builds would be not be optimized if the patch didn't go in. Your argument only works if he has enough time to prepare for patch and no patch fully. But this is obviously not the case. I used the HoTS example because it magnifies the issue. If your argument is that the patch is insignificant, so it is ok that there is no warning, I still think it is a BAD one. His build where he doesn't have 3/3 on his infested terrans so his free units don't do as much damage and die faster? Golden makes a valid point that Blizzard don't tell people that they will be patching until the last minute, I'm sure they'd appreciate a bigger heads up going into tournaments especially when bigger changes happen. SC2 needs a tournament version, but the technology probably isn't there ;;
Speaking of that, I don't think anyone asked Dustin Browder if they'll add a tournament version of SC2.
They clearly have old versions (that's how replays work), they just need to make them work online.
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I appreciate your frustration, I would feel the same way.
Here's to the day when the game is balanced and we don't need these anymore.
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I completely agree. Pros should know when patches are coming way before the rest of us. This game pays people's bills.
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It's blizzard, when have we ever gotten a solid date? I know your complaint is valid, but blizzard has never been on time for anything, I truly believe HotS will be delayed as well.
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blizzard being a mess and unorganized as usual
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On January 16 2013 10:32 emc wrote:
It's blizzard, when have we ever gotten a solid date? I know your complaint is valid, but blizzard has never been on time for anything, I truly believe HotS will be delayed as well.
Sure, but you can still delay patches on purpose for the sole reason of actually being able to provide a date (and accurate patch notes). As in, when the patch is actually 100% ready for deployment, instead of deploying it immediately, they announce it will be deployed a week later.
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They can easily put a rule like : patchs are released either on 1st or 15th of the month. So, if you know a patch is incomming, then you can assume it will be released or not before a tournament...
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So, looking back apparently alot of zerg were caught off guard with the patch. only 20% managed to pass the round, where it should've been around 50%. :o
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Valid point. If there is a change in balance, then pros should be able to prepare and practice the new balance before playing games where money/ranking/nerd pride is on the line.
I think it was Sheth that had the idea of a Zeta server, where they keep the pre-patch balance for tournaments to use if they push out a balance patch right as tournament is about to start.
Either give them time to practice, or give them the ability to play on the previous patch for the tournament.
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It is not possible to know when patch is gonna go live, they release it when it is ready.
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On January 19 2013 07:49 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
It is not possible to know when patch is gonna go live, they release it when it is ready.
Blizzard can always delay the patch once it is ready. Announce balance changes, wait 3 days, release patch.
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On January 19 2013 07:40 J_Slim wrote:
Valid point. If there is a change in balance, then pros should be able to prepare and practice the new balance before playing games where money/ranking/nerd pride is on the line.
I think it was Sheth that had the idea of a Zeta server, where they keep the pre-patch balance for tournaments to use if they push out a balance patch right as tournament is about to start.
Either give them time to practice, or give them the ability to play on the previous patch for the tournament.
I think it is a bad to leave it to the tournements as to which version of WOL they wanna play on.
Also Blizzard can't cater to the tournements very much really THEY HAPPEN ALL THE TIME! Delay it a week for IEM, bam suddenly an MLG. Well maybe not in January but you get my point. Also Patching happens on set days so delaying a few days is not really viable.
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EPT
