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On January 16 2013 04:55 Albinoswordfish wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:35 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place. i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global. if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way. Yes you said it yourself Blizzard is a big company with lots of bureaucracy, that's not gonna change. If this were a small company then yes it would be more feasible but the number of steps it takes to release a patch is probably ridiculous. I'm just saying with big software companies it's really hard to release a patch and not trivial.
what you seem to be saying is that patch dates are arbitrary, or at least strongly subject to change because of that long, bureaucratic patching process. they are neither. that's at odds with the whole concept of methodical and bureaucratic, which you agreed the company is bogged down by. it's hard to believe that there have been any significant changes made to 1.5.4 in the last two weeks or so, because those changes need "official" clearance and testing for the patch's release to be even considered, much less confirmed. and once that release date is set, it takes a lot for it to be changed, to the point that hotfixing minor bugs will be chosen over last minute changes and delays.
i'm quite confident in guessing over 80% of balance/content patches blizzard has released for its games since early days of world of warcraft have been on the company's semi-official patch day, which is "around" tuesday depending on time zone.
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Canada13407 Posts
But, this patch doesnt actually have any balance changes in it atm
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On January 16 2013 05:07 ikh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:55 Albinoswordfish wrote:On January 16 2013 04:35 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place. i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global. if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way. Yes you said it yourself Blizzard is a big company with lots of bureaucracy, that's not gonna change. If this were a small company then yes it would be more feasible but the number of steps it takes to release a patch is probably ridiculous. I'm just saying with big software companies it's really hard to release a patch and not trivial. what you seem to be saying is that patch dates are arbitrary, or at least strongly subject to change because of that long, bureaucratic patching process. they are neither. that's at odds with the whole concept of methodical and bureaucratic, which you agreed the company is bogged down by. it's hard to believe that there have been any significant changes made to 1.5.4 in the last two weeks or so, because those changes need "official" clearance and testing for the patch's release to be even considered, much less confirmed. and once that release date is set, it takes a lot for it to be changed, to the point that hotfixing minor bugs will be chosen over last minute changes and delays. i'm quite confident in guessing over 80% of balance/content patches blizzard has released for its games since early days of world of warcraft have been on the company's semi-official patch day, which is "around" tuesday depending on time zone.
Pretty much, everything else had been hotfixes.
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On January 16 2013 05:07 ikh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:55 Albinoswordfish wrote:On January 16 2013 04:35 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place. i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global. if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way. Yes you said it yourself Blizzard is a big company with lots of bureaucracy, that's not gonna change. If this were a small company then yes it would be more feasible but the number of steps it takes to release a patch is probably ridiculous. I'm just saying with big software companies it's really hard to release a patch and not trivial. what you seem to be saying is that patch dates are arbitrary, or at least strongly subject to change because of that long, bureaucratic patching process. they are neither. that's at odds with the whole concept of methodical and bureaucratic, which you agreed the company is bogged down by. it's hard to believe that there have been any significant changes made to 1.5.4 in the last two weeks or so, because those changes need "official" clearance and testing for the patch's release to be even considered, much less confirmed. and once that release date is set, it takes a lot for it to be changed, to the point that hotfixing minor bugs will be chosen over last minute changes and delays. i'm quite confident in guessing over 80% of balance/content patches blizzard has released for its games since early days of world of warcraft have been on the company's semi-official patch day, which is "around" tuesday depending on time zone.
From what I've seen from Blizzard I don't think they impose hard release dates. How many times has a game release by Blizzard been delayed by months. Unless we work at Blizzard we'll never know what's going on behind the scenes. I'm not saying it's not a good request to ask for patch release dates but if they don't give one or an accurate one I'm not gonna be too upset over it.
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On January 16 2013 05:34 Albinoswordfish wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 05:07 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:55 Albinoswordfish wrote:On January 16 2013 04:35 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place. i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global. if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way. Yes you said it yourself Blizzard is a big company with lots of bureaucracy, that's not gonna change. If this were a small company then yes it would be more feasible but the number of steps it takes to release a patch is probably ridiculous. I'm just saying with big software companies it's really hard to release a patch and not trivial. what you seem to be saying is that patch dates are arbitrary, or at least strongly subject to change because of that long, bureaucratic patching process. they are neither. that's at odds with the whole concept of methodical and bureaucratic, which you agreed the company is bogged down by. it's hard to believe that there have been any significant changes made to 1.5.4 in the last two weeks or so, because those changes need "official" clearance and testing for the patch's release to be even considered, much less confirmed. and once that release date is set, it takes a lot for it to be changed, to the point that hotfixing minor bugs will be chosen over last minute changes and delays. i'm quite confident in guessing over 80% of balance/content patches blizzard has released for its games since early days of world of warcraft have been on the company's semi-official patch day, which is "around" tuesday depending on time zone. From what I've seen from Blizzard I don't think they impose hard release dates. How many times has a game release by Blizzard been delayed by months. Unless we work at Blizzard we'll never know what's going on behind the scenes. I'm not saying it's not a good request to ask for patch release dates but if they don't give one or an accurate one I'm not gonna be too upset over it.
my post claimed the exact opposite, so i guess your response leaves us at a standstill!
e: but to respond to the "how often": depends. either never or sometimes depending on whether you go by release estimates or release dates. can't remember them missing one of the latter, and even if they did that's not very relevant when talking patch releases. they're nothing alike to game releases. no offense, but blizzard is not a magical entity that operates on its own set of rules that can only be described as blizzard-like. they're a big ass company and there's pretty much only one way they can and could work (especially looking at the people who run the company), and that's along the lines i described in my last post :3 unless they become valve or something!
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On January 16 2013 05:41 ikh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 05:34 Albinoswordfish wrote:On January 16 2013 05:07 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:55 Albinoswordfish wrote:On January 16 2013 04:35 ikh wrote:On January 16 2013 04:17 Albinoswordfish wrote:
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to put release dates on patches. Patches are typically bug fixes rather than new features and if your a developer you know fixing a bug can range anywhere from 1 day to 1 month. If you look at the patch notes there were a number of bug fixes put into place. i actually have a fair idea. it's not very difficult at all, this release date was all but set in stone well before it got released. blizzard is a company that works very slow and methodically through lots of bureaucracy and red tape to the point that it needs four different servants to tie its shoelaces before it can get up, stumble and fall. with which i mean they need a clear game plan. not a metaphor for the patching process which is neither technically demanding nor unpredictable, which i'm sure most people would agree when trying to remember how often sc2 patches have caused issues (much less gamebreaking issues) requiring hotfixes or unreasonable downtime, regional or global. if someone inside the company capable of making a decision wanted it to happen, it would be no trouble at all to tell people when a goddamn game is being patched. it's something managed effortlessly by many, many gaming companies, and the reason blizzard isn't one of them is partly rooted in them being a company that doesn't really indulge in communicating with their customers. which i guess they're trying to improve on in recent years in a two steps forward one step back sort of way. Yes you said it yourself Blizzard is a big company with lots of bureaucracy, that's not gonna change. If this were a small company then yes it would be more feasible but the number of steps it takes to release a patch is probably ridiculous. I'm just saying with big software companies it's really hard to release a patch and not trivial. what you seem to be saying is that patch dates are arbitrary, or at least strongly subject to change because of that long, bureaucratic patching process. they are neither. that's at odds with the whole concept of methodical and bureaucratic, which you agreed the company is bogged down by. it's hard to believe that there have been any significant changes made to 1.5.4 in the last two weeks or so, because those changes need "official" clearance and testing for the patch's release to be even considered, much less confirmed. and once that release date is set, it takes a lot for it to be changed, to the point that hotfixing minor bugs will be chosen over last minute changes and delays. i'm quite confident in guessing over 80% of balance/content patches blizzard has released for its games since early days of world of warcraft have been on the company's semi-official patch day, which is "around" tuesday depending on time zone. From what I've seen from Blizzard I don't think they impose hard release dates. How many times has a game release by Blizzard been delayed by months. Unless we work at Blizzard we'll never know what's going on behind the scenes. I'm not saying it's not a good request to ask for patch release dates but if they don't give one or an accurate one I'm not gonna be too upset over it. my post claimed the exact opposite, so i guess your response leaves us at a standstill!
Haha I guess so, oh well let's see what Blizzard does to see who's right.
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Nothing will go wrong Golden, we are cheering for you and there are 0 enormous balance changes in this one. I have a lot of confidence in you to be fine, and I am sure the rest of us agree that you will be fine <3.
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On January 16 2013 04:32 Taters_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:07 Al Bundy wrote:
I don't understand why would some people believe that only Zerg players need to adapt to this patch. This change affects every single Z matchup, whether it be ZvZ, ZvP or ZvT. This patch modifies Zerg strategy in the 3 matchups; the Protoss & Terran players will have to react to this, and adapt to these modified strategies. Yeah, it affects zerg in every matchup yet it affects terran and protoss on only one matchup, and you don't understand how it's going to be a disadvantage for zerg? And as for your previous posts, what does it matter if you're a professional player or just like anyone else when a game you're playing changes? And it's quite unlikely that goldens first and only choice on getting some information on the matter has been to post it on a forum that uses a language he has only basic grasp of, the day before he heads out to a tournament that might or might not have the same game he has been practicing with. Why are you anyways so negative about this proposion?
I'm sorry, there seems to be a misunderstanding. Some people seemed to think that Zerg and ONLY Zerg players were going to be affected by the patch. Of course it's going to be a disadvantage to Zerg, because they'll have a harder time adapting to these changes, that's undeniable.
Also I'm not really so negative about this proposition, it's just that if I were a pro, I wouldn't complain on a public forum, that's all.
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On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day.
Actually it's more like this:
The football players prepare with their usual training for the week before the superbowl. When they arrive to play the game the ref's tell them that passes over 30 yards are not allowed anymore. Team A has a above average quarterback and an average running back, Team B has a mediocre quarterback and a sweet running back.
Team A with the slightly above average quarterback has been working on passing plays mainly as it is their strong-suit.
Team B with the slightly above average running back works more-so on that style of play.'
It is to Team B's advantage that the pass rule was nerf'd. If Team A knew about the change in the rules weeks before the game they would have prepared different scheme's so they would be better situated for the change in the game.
Perhaps Golden is more inclined to prepare a certain way for one patch, and would prepare in a different way for a different patch
Very valid concern IMO.
Maybe you are just a bit jealous of his accomplishments? I know I am. It's ok bro, it's ok.
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On January 16 2013 06:06 Mo0Rauder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. Actually it's more like this: The football players prepare with their usual training for the week before the superbowl. When they arrive to play the game the ref's tell them that passes over 30 yards are not allowed anymore. Team A has a above average quarterback and an average running back, Team B has a mediocre quarterback and a sweet running back. Team A with the slightly above average quarterback has been working on passing plays mainly as it is their strong-suit. Team B with the slightly above average running back works more-so on that style of play.' It is to Team B's advantage that the pass rule was nerf'd. If Team A knew about the change in the rules weeks before the game they would have prepared different scheme's so they would be better situated for the change in the game. Perhaps Golden is more inclined to prepare a certain way for one patch, and would prepare in a different way for a different patch Very valid concern IMO. Maybe you are just a bit jealous of his accomplishments? I know I am. It's ok bro, it's ok.
Why don't you read the thread before replying to an obsolete post? I already apologized for that one.
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On January 16 2013 06:08 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 06:06 Mo0Rauder wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. Actually it's more like this: The football players prepare with their usual training for the week before the superbowl. When they arrive to play the game the ref's tell them that passes over 30 yards are not allowed anymore. Team A has a above average quarterback and an average running back, Team B has a mediocre quarterback and a sweet running back. Team A with the slightly above average quarterback has been working on passing plays mainly as it is their strong-suit. Team B with the slightly above average running back works more-so on that style of play.' It is to Team B's advantage that the pass rule was nerf'd. If Team A knew about the change in the rules weeks before the game they would have prepared different scheme's so they would be better situated for the change in the game. Perhaps Golden is more inclined to prepare a certain way for one patch, and would prepare in a different way for a different patch Very valid concern IMO. Maybe you are just a bit jealous of his accomplishments? I know I am. It's ok bro, it's ok. Why don't you read the thread before replying to an obsolete post? I already apologized for that one.
I never said you had to apologize sir, just giving my take.
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On January 16 2013 06:05 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 04:32 Taters_ wrote:On January 16 2013 04:07 Al Bundy wrote:
I don't understand why would some people believe that only Zerg players need to adapt to this patch. This change affects every single Z matchup, whether it be ZvZ, ZvP or ZvT. This patch modifies Zerg strategy in the 3 matchups; the Protoss & Terran players will have to react to this, and adapt to these modified strategies. Yeah, it affects zerg in every matchup yet it affects terran and protoss on only one matchup, and you don't understand how it's going to be a disadvantage for zerg? And as for your previous posts, what does it matter if you're a professional player or just like anyone else when a game you're playing changes? And it's quite unlikely that goldens first and only choice on getting some information on the matter has been to post it on a forum that uses a language he has only basic grasp of, the day before he heads out to a tournament that might or might not have the same game he has been practicing with. Why are you anyways so negative about this proposion? Also I'm not really so negative about this proposition, it's just that if I were a pro, I wouldn't complain on a public forum, that's all.
if that's what you meant, then you could've saved us all a lot of trouble and said something along those lines instead of belittling the issue and talking football & weather 
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It should also be noted that Golden isn't complaining about balance as most "pro's" do when they complain about the game. He just wants to know when the patch is coming out so he can prepare properly for the "sport" he makes his living off of.
If I got on a plane and flew to a convention to give a speech about XYZ, I would not expect to show up and then have to give a speech on YXZ. I wouldn't be prepared for it. Even if the change affected everyone giving speeches it wouldn't be fair to the people at the conference who have to listen and watch all these speeches that make no sense at all.
The performers have to prepare for exactly what they are expecting, it's not fair to them, or the viewers if it's any other way.
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On January 16 2013 06:12 Mo0Rauder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 06:08 Al Bundy wrote:On January 16 2013 06:06 Mo0Rauder wrote:On January 16 2013 01:13 Al Bundy wrote:
You are a pro, I'm sure you'll have no problem adapting. This patch is not exactly ground breaking, it's not like they overhauled the whole gameplay or something. Besides, basically every single progamer is in the same situation as you, so the field is leveled.
Reminds me of these football players who complain that they couldn't play to the best of their ability because it was raining that day. Actually it's more like this: The football players prepare with their usual training for the week before the superbowl. When they arrive to play the game the ref's tell them that passes over 30 yards are not allowed anymore. Team A has a above average quarterback and an average running back, Team B has a mediocre quarterback and a sweet running back. Team A with the slightly above average quarterback has been working on passing plays mainly as it is their strong-suit. Team B with the slightly above average running back works more-so on that style of play.' It is to Team B's advantage that the pass rule was nerf'd. If Team A knew about the change in the rules weeks before the game they would have prepared different scheme's so they would be better situated for the change in the game. Perhaps Golden is more inclined to prepare a certain way for one patch, and would prepare in a different way for a different patch Very valid concern IMO. Maybe you are just a bit jealous of his accomplishments? I know I am. It's ok bro, it's ok. Why don't you read the thread before replying to an obsolete post? I already apologized for that one. I never said you had to apologize sir, just giving my take.
Well your take makes a lot of sense, I appreciate it.
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If you guys haven't noticed, there has been little to no announcements regarding game changes and patches. Blizzard is definitely dropping the ball.
I understand why Zerg players find this annoying though. Infested Terran change is a huge change for them.
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holy shit, i really like like this thread. not only is it the first time that i see a progamer from korea post such a rather long thread, but also is it pretty shit indeed. well, i would be surprised if blizzard changes in this regard.
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Speaking of the devil, infestors get nerfed 3 days before IEM link
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In theory, if a patch nerfs your race, then you have been favored with that imbalance in past tourneys. So is fine.
Also is imposible to "predict" imbalances. Once the imbalance is confirmed, it should be patched right away. And btw, Blizzard usually is VERY slow to confirm pretty obvious imbalances ¬¬
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Even they don't know when it will go live. How can they notice us. An example is the Diablo 3 1.0.7 blog article went live last friday afternoon, but even in that afternoon, people at Blizzard still said in the forum that they are not sure when it will come out.
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It wasn't in the patch notes because it wasn't part of the actual patch. Rather it was implemeted live which they can do with such small changes.
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EPT
