EPTeven broodlings are fast as fuck.
i mean cmon, like that would make a big difference.
Blizzard Plans to Nerf Infestors (WoL) - Page 16
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
ilikeLIONZ
Germany427 Posts
even broodlings are fast as fuck. i mean cmon, like that would make a big difference. | ||
|
NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On January 12 2013 22:06 DarkLordOlli wrote: Like... what... I don't even... Stalkers are 125/50. How on earth is that free? I also recommend you read the last statement I made, I even put it in bold letters for you. in consideration to how much BLs cost (300 min 250 gas 4 supply per BL, add Gspire+ spire (comparable to blink and twilight In some ways but not nearly as efficient since u need TC for +2 upgrades)), its basically free when you think of how easily they would counter BL in lategame zvp without fungals. | ||
|
NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On January 12 2013 21:46 Scrubwave wrote: Holy shit, emps or storms can be game deciding spells too, doesn't mean they're comparable to fungal. If you want to be ignorant, thats fine, but please dont post in a thread where people are trying to discuss something. | ||
|
pmp10
3239 Posts
But this change will have too much effect on the late-game and affect protoss much more than terran. When it comes to infested terrans I'd rather see a flat-out damage decrease. | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On January 12 2013 22:11 NEEDZMOAR wrote: in consideration to how much BLs cost (300 min 250 gas 4 supply per BL, add Gspire+ spire (comparable to blink and twilight In some ways but not nearly as efficient since u need TC for +2 upgrades)), its basically free when you think of how easily they would counter BL in lategame zvp without fungals. Did you consider what broodlings cost? Nothing. You can't even take out the source because of fungal. So basically a perfectly controlled infestor/BL army trades nothing but energy for an entire protoss army. Stalkers are NOT free. Nowhere near free. | ||
|
Sjokola
Netherlands800 Posts
| ||
|
submarine
Germany290 Posts
On January 12 2013 22:10 ilikeLIONZ wrote: I dont get how you people really think that exchanging the fungle root for a "slow" would make such a big difference against the already fast zerg units. even broodlings are fast as fuck. i mean cmon, like that would make a big difference. Just think about how many medivacs could be saved if fungal did only slow down units instead of completely stopping them. If fungal was a slow, the defender needs to decide if he wants to split to avoid a follow up or if he wants to have maximum dps. Spliting up slowed down units would massively cut the dps dealt by this units. An interesting idea would be to change fungal to a stackable slow and not stackable dot: -That way zergs would have to think about how often they should fungal certain units in certain circumstances. -Zergs would have to use more energy to achieve the same result. The units speed should be reduced to somewhere between 30 and 50% by each fungal. | ||
|
JKM
Denmark419 Posts
On January 12 2013 22:11 NEEDZMOAR wrote: in consideration to how much BLs cost (300 min 250 gas 4 supply per BL, add Gspire+ spire (comparable to blink and twilight In some ways but not nearly as efficient since u need TC for +2 upgrades)), its basically free when you think of how easily they would counter BL in lategame zvp without fungals. Stalkers are not cheap, protoss is going through a fairly gas-heavy transition during the mid-late game adding colossus, storm, mothership, archons - in addition to stalkers for bolstering the ranks. Furthermore, the economic situation of zerg and protoss is not identical (unless the zerg lost a base+drones to some midgame push), meaning the zerg can afford to reinforce his army quicker. Finally, blink stalker rarely survive blinking in under blords and not just because of fungal. Normally fungal serves to lock blink stalkers down before they blink. Against low numbers of blords blink stalkers will kill them very efficiently, but that's not often the situation. | ||
|
Perscienter
957 Posts
| ||
|
submarine
Germany290 Posts
On January 12 2013 21:39 NEEDZMOAR wrote: are you serious? FF can very much be compared, its a game deciding spell, it makes earlygame aggression in zvp useless, it makes groundarmies in zvp 3base timings with colossi useless, without the sentry, (and of course without Warpgate mechanics) GateWay-units wouldnt have to be so f*cking weak and could be a core part of the toss army. There are a few very big differences between fungal and forcefields. 1. Placing good forcefields takes more skill; there is a higher skill ceiling for force field usage. 2. Forcefields alone won't kill anything. 3.Every race has micro to work around forcefields once they are casted: Dropships, borrow, moving certain massive units, blink 4. Forcefields no not work against every f****** unit in the game. IMHO forcefields are ok in PvT and borderline broken in PvZ. If queens or uprooted spines could walk down forcefields i would be completely fine with them. Fungal on the other hand is completely broken, stupid and overpowered. It does everything against every unit, is easy to use and it is on a easily massable fast unit with borrow movement. The funniest thing about fungal is that it also works as detector. As if it would have been to much to ask zergs to either chain that cloaked unit down or just hold it in place until that Overseer is at the scene. They made a conscious decision that fungal has to be a hard counter against invisibility and not just a soft counter! To the proposed removal of upgrades for ITs: I think this goes too far. Infested terrans with their base stats will be completely useless in late game. It think a small cooldown (0,5 s) on the spell and maybe a small damage nerf of one or two points should be enough especially in combination if a slow instead of a root on fungal. | ||
|
Godwrath
Spain10107 Posts
On January 12 2013 22:11 NEEDZMOAR wrote: in consideration to how much BLs cost (300 min 250 gas 4 supply per BL, add Gspire+ spire (comparable to blink and twilight In some ways but not nearly as efficient since u need TC for +2 upgrades)), its basically free when you think of how easily they would counter BL in lategame zvp without fungals. Why people forget about supply efficiency ? 4 supply per broodlord is a steal compared to any other massive T3 unit, except the archon ? which it is a ground unit. One interesting thing about this change, is how carriers and cattlebruisers won't get owned by thousand free units while fungaled. | ||
|
Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
On January 12 2013 23:11 Godwrath wrote: Why people forget about supply efficiency ? 4 supply per broodlord is a steal compared to any other massive T3 unit, except the archon ? which it is a ground unit. To be fair BL aren't that strong for a T3. They only attack ground and are much less durable than both battlecruisers and carriers. It is the combination with infestors that has left little to no weakness through because infestors got so powerful rooting and antiair. With these changes through it is going to be tough to beat Protoss and Terran Air play late game relying only on infestors. This will be futher boosted if the removal of fungal bonus damage to armored is removed like from the latest HOTS beta patch. | ||
|
Lazzi
Switzerland1923 Posts
| ||
|
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
| ||
|
gobbledydook
Australia2593 Posts
| ||
|
Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
It never made sense and was never fun to watch. | ||
|
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On January 13 2013 00:07 gobbledydook wrote: Except no matter how you look at it corruptors aren't very big. They're certainly not 'massive'. ... neither are archons. Please try a little harder to discuss this, I'm serious about it. This change would do pretty much one thing only - void rays receive attack bonus vs massive. So they'd fare better vs corruptors. | ||
|
Scrubwave
Poland1786 Posts
| ||
|
Frogstomp
United States125 Posts
Reasonable people can disagree about whether this is enough, but I think we can all agree that mass, mass infestor play is pretty boring to watch. And that removing the upgrades from ITs changes the ability from a 'spawn army command' to more of a support ability (with IT's either drawing fire or being used to lightly harrass worker lines*), which imho is the main incentive for massing infestors in the mid-late to late game. | ||
|
nailertn
48 Posts
On January 12 2013 21:35 NEEDZMOAR wrote: banelings are never cost efficient on a pro level unless your opponent screws up, and thats the key words, you have to rely on your opponent screwing up for banelings to be a good gasdump. besides, what about zvp and zvz? and no its not exciting to watch something just because there are more explosions and whatnot, I hate banelings, I hate watching it, I hate having to make them, why? because, as Ive already mentioned before, I have to rely on my opponent to fuck up, and I have to rely on luck, with medivacs banelings might not even do enough damage, blink stalkers would just be stupidly good if fungal were removed, you think zvp lategame is passive now? remove fungal and no zerg would ever attack, ever... you know whats really breaking this game? bioballs + medivacs + infinite selection + clumping up, there u have it, without that, the other races wouldnt have to rely on guaranteed aoe damage and crowdcontrol ( sentries / infestors). Do you realise how easy it was for T to break down equally good zerg players who didnt have Idra / DRG / leenocks apm to play muta ling bling cost efficiently? Having played random for a year in WoL I realise this: You never tried the T side of muta ling bane vs tank bio if you say that. You seem to cling on to this notion of cost efficiency yet play the race that was designed to be wasteful. The fact that zergs have all the tools necessary to be wasteful AND managed to figure out ways to be very cost efficient is why we are where we are now. Banelings are not more exciting than fungal because there are pretty explosions, they are because they can be countered with superior micro yet the danger of losing half your army in an instant is always present. Compare that to fungal: one click guaranteed damage with no counter play what so ever. Having to rely on your opponent to fuck up is frustrating I'll give you that - welcome to TvZ in 2012 btw -, but if you have stuff like banelings vs marine / concussive shell vs zealot / phoenix vs muta etc... where a certain unit can be hard countered with sufficient APM somebody is always going to get hurt. Your opponent if you have the APM, you if you don't. The goal is not to cripple zerg but to make it more well rounded so the entire race is not dependant on one ability. Fixing hydras seems like a pretty good solution against mutas and blink stalkers, and no you don't need fungal against bio. | ||
| ||
