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Blizzard Plans to Nerf Infestors (WoL) - Page 18
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SongMeister
United States20 Posts
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TheIceMan86
Canada19 Posts
We've collected more ladder data from our poorly made maps and find that zergs have a slight edge through the use of infestors despite the community telling us for over a year that this was a problem. Lets listen to the community 2 months before the game is dead so it can go out on a positive mark. So sad and pathetic that its come to this. | ||
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
On January 14 2013 00:09 Insoleet wrote: What about changing the mechanism of Infested Terrans. To be able to spawn some, we would need to use the ability "morph eggs" on our infestors, for like 5 mineralz. Like on the carriers, you would need to build IT in the infestor before spawning them. But its different than carriers because you launch your eggs on the ground, and then they morph in ITs. It's just, it doesnt cost energy, but it cost mineralz, need ot be stocked in the infestor, and each egg would have a built time. The problem is not that they don't cost money but that they make your army much bigger than it actually is. You can have the same army value as your Zerg opponent but if he has a lot of infestors his army will actually be a lot bigger. Your change is rather clunky and since Zerg players often have big mineral banks it would still allow situations to occur in which they can heavily inflate their army size by spawning a lot of ITs. So the best way definitely is nerfing ITs. Also making ITs weaker will increase the depth of using them. It will actually require the Zerg to decide if they want to use them in any battle because they will be weaker in lower numbers so dumping them all the time will actually hurt your army strength much more than now and it may be beneficial to save the energy for a crucial engagement. If you have been following high level Zerg play I am sure you have noticed that right now they are just spammed in any battle occurring maybe this trend will continue but there is definitely not much depth to using them right now because they are so strong that they will be very effective nearly every time they are used. | ||
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nailertn
48 Posts
On January 13 2013 21:38 Sumadin wrote: Still no solution to Mutas vs Mutas... Mass Viking would be the natural responce if there is alot of Broodlords present. And adding a few ravens will change the favor to the vikings against corruptor. There is no facing a lategame terran with the infrastructure in Air-to-Air. This is still an extremely expensive trade for the zerg, and they can't keep their trading tactics going for long without being cost efficiant. Which they really can't. Even if they can split for seekers they still must take note of the PDDs. I know, never said nerfing fungal doesn't necessitate some sort of counter measure, say a hydra buff. In fact I merely responded to the "no zerg AA counter" part, sorry I should have bolded it. Terran is the least flexible race in the game. If they can match a zerg in viking production they have over committed in starports and are lacking in other parts of their infrastructure; meaning they WILL get rolled on ground. If you insist on bringing ravens into the picture it is only fair to add infestors as well, which makes the fight decisively zerg favored even without fungals. Try it out if you believe otherwise. Even if we ignore the fact that zergs tend to be ahead on bases so cost efficiency is not a requirement to begin with, the trade isn't in any shape or form more expensive for them than for terran. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10165 Posts
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On January 13 2013 21:38 Sumadin wrote: Still no solution to Mutas vs Mutas... Mass Viking would be the natural responce if there is alot of Broodlords present. And adding a few ravens will change the favor to the vikings against corruptor. There is no facing a lategame terran with the infrastructure in Air-to-Air. This is still an extremely expensive trade for the zerg, and they can't keep their trading tactics going for long without being cost efficiant. Which they really can't. Even if they can split for seekers they still must take note of the PDDs. and then once they have viking+raven, just remax on ling bling ultra and just freaking kill the terran with his overcommittal to air then. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
Either that or require Hive before infestor. So when zergs make nothing but drones for 10 minutes, they can actually be punished and harassed because they don't have fungal which shuts down EVERY harass tech in the game and it also wrecks the main army. Honestly, I remember days long ago, before infestors were used much, when zergs where using roach, hydra, corruptor, OR ling, bane, muta, and they were winning events as frequently as protoss ever has. I don't think that psi storm + force field in one spell was ever necessary. Fungal shouldn't detect, it shouldn't stop blink, it shouldn't be instant, and infestors shouldn't be able to burrow move forever with no mana cost and no upgrade. To all the zergs saying that "they need fungal because everything else zerg has is so bad", must not have been around the entire time when zergs didn't use infestors and were still placing well in tournaments, all over the world, at the highest level. With the many other changes to the game that have happened since the early days (barracks, stim, and bunker nerfs, warp gate nerfs, blink nerfs, and buffs to queens, spore crawlers, overlord speed, any zerg that tells you they couldn't survive without fungal being what it is, is a liar. They just like having a counter-anything unit. Zerg doesn't even have to pay attention to what protoss or terran is doing. If they have 10 infestors they can produce ANY tech in the mid game to go alongside it, and win against almost anything. There is NO situation when having 10+ infestors is a mistake. My opinion is of little consequence, so what do pro's think? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381326 Nestea "Next question. I want to know what you are thinking of the current metagame in Starcraft 2. I was once called the 'Great Detective', but only because there weren't many strategies at that time. I could see what strategy the opponent would do only by looking at his unit count. Nowadays a lot of matches have been played out and many interesting and unusual builds and strategies have came out, which makes it more difficult to predict. Although better mechanics are also important, I think Zerg's Broodlord and Infestor army is too strong. I don't know about ZvT, but in some maps they are way too strong in ZvP. Daybreak is a good example. Even though I am a big whiner for Zerg, I honestly think this composition is imbalanced. Solutions for this strategy should come out pretty soon though." | ||
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SXGCoil
United States341 Posts
On topic though, I've felt this was a good change from the first time they put it into hots. People always complain about infestors not being support-y enough and reducing their ability to find on their own is the right way to make them more support. I don't know if they're just testing the new units still but I rarely see pros make infestors until the lategame nowadays. | ||
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Genie1
Canada333 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10165 Posts
On January 15 2013 03:47 Genie1 wrote: Honestly if you watch this game right here. You will notice that the Korean's forced a roach only battle because infestors cost to much gas meaning the force will be smaller and it hit perfectly right before stephano could get a good number. This game will be watched by many Korean zergs who are struggling with ZvZ and will notice that hitting before infestors are out will give them an edge. + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNarMYf68tk That's not new lol. And what has to do ZvZ with this aside for mutas ? | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
Chain fungal would have a very different effect then. It would: A - reward players who keep an eye on their units B - punish deathballing C - reward having multiple infestors without making them overpowered - they can no longer survive on their own since if they push forward they die Landing 3-4 fungal growths would have a massive effect on a deathballed army. | ||
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Diogenes
United States132 Posts
Is it a wonder why viewership keeps decreasing? David Kim really needs to be fired if Blizzard is going to show the community they give a crap. Dude was a relic balance tester too. That game suffered from a ridiculous imbalance in strafe as well that never got dealt with. | ||
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Garfailed
Netherlands409 Posts
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Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
On January 15 2013 04:22 Diogenes wrote: It's clear that the A-team is working on HOTS. They almost immediately acknowledge that Infestors would be nerfed in HOTS. But in WOL? No way Jose. Go buy the xpac guys if you want a balanced game. Meanwhile, we have to endure 6 months of ZvZ's and a previously exciting game be about spamming infestors. Even when infestors do not show up, they warp the game because everybody knows you have to hit a zerg before they get infestors or you lose. Is it a wonder why viewership keeps decreasing? David Kim really needs to be fired if Blizzard is going to show the community they give a crap. Dude was a relic balance tester too. That game suffered from a ridiculous imbalance in strafe as well that never got dealt with. He IS part of the A-team. And it really comes down to how many changes they think they can port without wrecking the balance. These changes usually don't get more than a week or two of testing so it is not like estended analyses can be done. In HOTS they still got 2 months to get it right. Not two weeks. And noone has got prize money on the line for HOTS yet. They can be more free with what they do in HOTS. | ||
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llIH
Norway2147 Posts
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MiCa
United States147 Posts
On January 23 2013 22:04 KAB00000000M wrote: Watching todays GSL matches. I still believe infestors should be nerfed even more. Either remove the movement while burrowed or remove infested terran completely. They would still be useful. But not as a main unit, rather a support. Or.. just do what they did with the ghost. Increase the energy for infested terran and reduced the radius of fungal. Is that too much? | ||
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movac
Canada494 Posts
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Qwerty85
Croatia5536 Posts
On January 23 2013 22:04 KAB00000000M wrote: Watching todays GSL matches. I still believe infestors should be nerfed even more. Either remove the movement while burrowed or remove infested terran completely. They would still be useful. But not as a main unit, rather a support. You mean that game between Baby vs. Leenock? The game was very long so I guess I should watch it again but I remember Leenock losing 37 drones in the first 11 min, getting like 20 hatches sniped during the game, getting most of his tech structures killed, he also donated some ultras, infestors, even unsupported broods on several occasions, but since Baby couldn't fight his army straight on, he eventually lost to a fungal that trapped his vikings and he got crushed. The fight was not even remotely close. | ||
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
On January 15 2013 04:22 Diogenes wrote: It's clear that the A-team is working on HOTS. They almost immediately acknowledge that Infestors would be nerfed in HOTS. But in WOL? No way Jose. Go buy the xpac guys if you want a balanced game. Meanwhile, we have to endure 6 months of ZvZ's and a previously exciting game be about spamming infestors. Even when infestors do not show up, they warp the game because everybody knows you have to hit a zerg before they get infestors or you lose. Is it a wonder why viewership keeps decreasing? David Kim really needs to be fired if Blizzard is going to show the community they give a crap. Dude was a relic balance tester too. That game suffered from a ridiculous imbalance in strafe as well that never got dealt with. I want to just point out, if anyone at blizzard knows balance it's david kim...but he has to fight against the machine that wants big explosions and cool units. If he were the only one testing and deciding if a change got made you'd probably see balance come into perspective a lot more quickly. He however is a voice in a crowd, so to single him out is just plain ignorant. | ||
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