EPTApologies again for the confusion. You'll get to see the match tomorrow. You've got my word on that.
No English OGN broadcast for SK Planet Proleague?
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DoA
Korea (South)599 Posts
Apologies again for the confusion. You'll get to see the match tomorrow. You've got my word on that.
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mjuuy
Norway506 Posts
Always looking for korean streams for SC2 anyway, so won't effect me.. | ||
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mistax
United States415 Posts
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Nimic
Norway1360 Posts
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kremon
Brazil5 Posts
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
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AssyrianKing
Australia2111 Posts
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Raggamuffinoo
United Kingdom117 Posts
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Kergy
Peru2011 Posts
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kisoso
Bulgaria105 Posts
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Terrix
Germany305 Posts
How could they do this to us D: Let our foreign teams in, we hype our asses off, OMG EG TL OMG EGJD and now no english cast??? So sad D: D: D: | ||
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NuclearJudas
6546 Posts
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Testuser
6469 Posts
I was really looking forward to seeing the KT vs EG.TL match, and this makes me quite sad. | ||
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SHOOG
United States1639 Posts
I'll still watch anyway I guess. | ||
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Bonzinator
Slovenia862 Posts
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Laryleprakon
New Zealand9496 Posts
I don't mind watching with Korean casters and if MLG did do the english broadcast I would be pretty happy (Axslav/Axeltoss make a great pair) but this is really badly organised and super sad for DOA with all the hard work he has put in. | ||
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wangstra
922 Posts
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spbelky
United States623 Posts
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jakethesnake
Canada4948 Posts
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aristarchus
United States652 Posts
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chocopan
Japan986 Posts
I feel really conflicted about the kespa proleague now. Of course I sort of have to watch, it's too exciting to see a foreigner team there not to watch. But now I have to feel guilty about it. So to speak. I really hope they sort something. I'm sorry doa. Thanks for keeping us updated. glgl | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
The sad part, that the only people it really hurts are EG-TL. | ||
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Destroyr
Germany299 Posts
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Trizz
Netherlands1318 Posts
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starfinder
Japan167 Posts
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Aldehyde
Sweden939 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:00 Trizz wrote: I really have no problem with this as I prefer the korean casters eventhough I have no idea what they're saying. You could have watched the Korean cast anyway but now the experience is lessened for everyone who does NOT want the Korean cast. Even if all you want is the Korean cast, this should be something you have a problem with. | ||
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oGsTrueSmug
England141 Posts
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Holloworb
Norway345 Posts
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Hiea
Denmark1538 Posts
This is sad :/ | ||
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najreteip
Belgium4158 Posts
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DiMano
Korea (South)2066 Posts
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KanoCoke
Japan863 Posts
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Destroyr
Germany299 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:59 opisska wrote: This way, we may soon get rid of all the notorious KeSPA defenders on TL. [...] The sad part, that the only people it really hurts are EG-TL. You are right. And it is so sad. On the other hand: Now I don't have to ask myself if i want to buy a ticket for GOM next year because the hyped alternative just commited suicide, Kespa-style. | ||
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atteo
20 Posts
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imJealous
United States1382 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:52 DoA wrote: Apparently MLG might be involved in some way with an English broadcast per MLG Lee's Twitter? If that's the case then I wish them the best of luck and a great season. Casted from replays 12 hours later by Axeltoss and Axslav sitting alone in a room! Oh boy that sounds exciting! | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
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Kergy
Peru2011 Posts
Lee Chen @MLGLee Would folks be interested in having Proleague matches streamed in english? | ||
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jnd
Czech Republic915 Posts
It's nice that there are still people used to watching Korean casts (including me) but those few hundreds, maybe thousand hardcore fans won't save them. Time's changed and now everyone expects not only English stream but also other languages like French or Russian. Let's hope this stubborn decision won't last long. | ||
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Laryleprakon
New Zealand9496 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:05 Kergy wrote: This title is way too drastic IMO, there are hints that MLG will broadcast PL in english, we still don't know... Its sad that we don't know and it starts in less than two days | ||
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geno
United States1404 Posts
If the MLG rumors are true, I don't quite understand how they are going to be able to pull off a quality live production from across the globe and there is no way I'm watching a rebroadcast or from-replay cast. We'll just have to wait and hope things turn out well. It's times like these i'm thankful for how well GOM has treated the foreign audience all this time, with hands-down the best dual-language cast I could even imagine. It's too bad it hasn't worked out that way for the KeSPA side of things as of yet. | ||
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JeffGoldblum
Cook Islands191 Posts
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:05 Kergy wrote: This title is way too drastic IMO, there are hints that MLG will broadcast PL in english, we still don't know... eh, the topic says no OGN english broadcast, and thats exactly what is going on | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
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Dyscrasia
New Zealand10 Posts
Guess I won't be watching this anymore. | ||
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masterbreti
Korea (South)2711 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:05 Kergy wrote: This title is way too drastic IMO, there are hints that MLG will broadcast PL in english, we still don't know... Doa sys OGN won't be airing an english stream, doesn't mention kespa, since kespa wants to capaltize on the foreiger scene as much as possible. PL is owned by kespa, OGN just get the right to air it sometimes. in saying that likely MLG will put PL behind a paywall and try to make money off of it, if this does happen, I'll be restreaming the OGN Korean stream. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:05 Kergy wrote: This title is way too drastic IMO, there are hints that MLG will broadcast PL in english, we still don't know... We are talking about OGN Broadcast in English. DoA did mention about MLG and their possible dealings with the broadcast in OP. | ||
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malaan
365 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gcAti.jpg) User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Elwar
953 Posts
Not if they're rebroadcasts or offsite, no. Won't be interested in proleague at all if its some slack MLG production from America. Onsite, in Korea, LIVE, to a quality we should expect from GOM? Yes. | ||
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thragar
Canada450 Posts
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phanto
Sweden708 Posts
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ETisME
12398 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:04 DiMano wrote: It is bad for guys who do not follow BW and never watch korean commentators. The beauty of Proleague are Korean Commentators. I like watching only korean comments in SPL. it will be good if we can have a choice | ||
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Fluffboll
Sweden516 Posts
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
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Desertfaux
Netherlands276 Posts
oh yeah, obligatory Kespa = evil comment. | ||
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rkshox
Taiwan536 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:07 geno wrote: I watched BW without any English casters for years with no understanding of Korean, so this certainly won't prevent me from watching. But I still feel very bad for DoA, he's definitely one of the good ones, a great caster and a hard worker behind the scenes, so I really hope OGN is able to salvage this situation and get their English casts back. If the MLG rumors are true, I don't quite understand how they are going to be able to pull off a quality live production from across the globe and there is no way I'm watching a rebroadcast or from-replay cast. We'll just have to wait and hope things turn out well. It's times like these i'm thankful for how well GOM has treated the foreign audience all this time, with hands-down the best dual-language cast I could even imagine. It's too bad it hasn't worked out that way for the KeSPA side of things as of yet. amen to that brotha | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
How does that even work ? Well, it's KeSPA - expect the worst | ||
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Earawen
France51 Posts
Hope it's gonna at least be easy to find korean streaming and that they wont gonna be shutdown... | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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Nutmegg
11 Posts
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
OGN really dropped the ball with the english broadcast last season. They really didn't deserve to keep those broadcast rights. | ||
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droken
Sweden126 Posts
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
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BeyondCtrL
Sweden642 Posts
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DiMano
Korea (South)2066 Posts
Yeah I just want to have Korean VODs as I am unable to watch it live and english VODs for other people who like it but now we have nothing | ||
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Destroyr
Germany299 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:07 geno wrote: [...] It's times like these i'm thankful for how well GOM has treated the foreign audience all this time, with hands-down the best dual-language cast I could even imagine. It's too bad it hasn't worked out that way for the KeSPA side of things as of yet. Same here. GOM really is above all again. For a week I was thinking "maybe purchase two streams or only proleague" what a foolish thought | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
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Draftrabbit
United Kingdom22 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:14 Fyodor wrote: I'm actually OK with this OGN really dropped the ball with the english broadcast last season. They really didn't deserve to keep those broadcast rights. Couldn't agree more | ||
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Fluffboll
Sweden516 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:15 BigBossX wrote: Lol what the fuck is wrong with you people, so what if there's no English broadcast? Are you telling me the only reason you were going to tune in was to watch English casts or to watch awesome games? Personally I couldn't give a flying fuck about this, I just want to watch some god damn starcraft 2!!! I do not enjoy watching a game which is ruined by korean commentators. Not everyone is you, some people do not like korean casts for whatever reason. There is so much other SC2 content everywhere that I do not need to torture myself with horrible korean casts to watch StarCraft 2. | ||
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:58 wangstra wrote: which one is ogn? Im not quite sure what you want to know, but OSL is the league run by OGN if that helps you. | ||
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zerious
Canada3803 Posts
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ArchangelJada
Canada910 Posts
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Gonozal
Germany320 Posts
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arioch
England403 Posts
That's gonna go down well with EG. | ||
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Serinox
Germany5224 Posts
2GD to the rescue? | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
Would folks be interested in having Proleague matches streamed in English? https://twitter.com/follow2GD/status/276676248875446272 | ||
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
"Would folks be interested in having Proleague matches streamed in English?" | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
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Swiv
Germany3674 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
the korean casting is always way better anyway (as any bw fan would tell you). and like this they will probably not implement the stupid fucking pay to view system. That's not the point. | ||
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Fluffboll
Sweden516 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:19 Elroi wrote: the korean casting is always way better anyway (as any bw fan would tell you). and like this they will probably not implement the stupid fucking pay to view system. Watched BW for years and I absolutely despise korean casting so yeah... | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:19 Serinox wrote: https://twitter.com/TheGDStudio/status/276676364478844928 https://twitter.com/follow2GD/status/276676248875446272 2GD to the rescue? He must mean unofficially, as in they will cast from their studio on top of the Korean stream. That is, unless Kespa partnered with two different organizations in NA/EU to broadcast for them, MLG for the weekend matches that will air in the evening in PST/EST and the GDstudio to cast the weekday matches that will air mid-day for EU. Or he's trolling. | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
We need to get rid of these despots, they just do basically everything they can to completely fuck up with the international audience.... | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
EDIT: even looks like Kespa will host something in english as well. | ||
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falafelnr1
Sweden444 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:19 Serinox wrote: https://twitter.com/TheGDStudio/status/276676364478844928 https://twitter.com/follow2GD/status/276676248875446272 2GD to the rescue? I'm pretty sure he's just making fun of MLG/Lee. | ||
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
For what exact reason did they bring a foreign team and Trade JD to EvilGenius? | ||
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Milgauss
Singapore15 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:15 BigBossX wrote: Lol what the fuck is wrong with you people, so what if there's no English broadcast? Are you telling me the only reason you were going to tune in was to watch English casts or to watch awesome games? Personally I couldn't give a flying fuck about this, I just want to watch some god damn starcraft 2!!! Opinions, they can be different.... | ||
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tj341
United States147 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:07 geno wrote: I watched BW without any English casters for years with no understanding of Korean, so this certainly won't prevent me from watching. But I still feel very bad for DoA, he's definitely one of the good ones, a great caster and a hard worker behind the scenes, so I really hope OGN is able to salvage this situation and get their English casts back. If the MLG rumors are true, I don't quite understand how they are going to be able to pull off a quality live production from across the globe and there is no way I'm watching a rebroadcast or from-replay cast. We'll just have to wait and hope things turn out well. It's times like these i'm thankful for how well GOM has treated the foreign audience all this time, with hands-down the best dual-language cast I could even imagine. It's too bad it hasn't worked out that way for the KeSPA side of things as of yet. so much truth in one post ^^^^^^^^^^ also lol @ people saying they won't watch without a English stream, who are you kidding? | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:20 Dodgin wrote: He must mean unofficially, as in they will cast from their studio on top of the Korean stream. That is, unless Kespa partnered with two different organizations in NA/EU to broadcast for them, MLG for the weekend matches that will air in the evening in PST/EST and the GDstudio to cast the weekday matches that will air mid-day for EU. Or he's trolling. Yep, exactly what i feel about this. Would be nice to have rebel Apollo casting unofficially Proleague. I would definitely consider watching it in English instead of Korean.  | ||
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arioch
England403 Posts
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
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SpikeStarcraft
Germany2095 Posts
and even if... i dont mind watching games without casting too. I mean oooooooh greeat fungaaaal will be understandable too so what? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44345 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:15 BigBossX wrote: Lol what the fuck is wrong with you people, so what if there's no English broadcast? Are you telling me the only reason you were going to tune in was to watch English casts or to watch awesome games? Personally I couldn't give a flying fuck about this, I just want to watch some god damn starcraft 2!!! Obviously some people on TL won't care. But everyone here speaks and understands English. Not nearly as many people speak or understand Korean. And language barriers are a pretty big deal for a lot of people watching a game that has commentary, unless you want to watch it on mute. As important as high quality games are, many viewers (especially the newer audience who hasn't been watching Korean commentary since BW and playguuuu, etc.) need good casting in a language they understand, partially to keep them focused and hyped and entertained, and partially for the learning and insight. Regardless, the fact that apparently Kespa is straight-out refusing to have English commentators is a blow to the globalization process for them, and it shows that they're not trying to be team players or appeal to a bigger crowd. I hope they get some blowback (either in their numbers being smaller than GOM's, or pressure from MLG) so that English commentary (by casters the community feels comfortable with) is at least an option. Because a lot of people really do care about this. It's not like having English commentators means you can't have Korean ones too. | ||
GTR
51454 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:20 Ragnarork wrote: KeSPA being KeSPA. We need to get rid of these despots, they just do basically everything they can to completely fuck up with the international audience.... I wouldn't put the entire blame on KeSPA in this situation. From what I understand, it's IEG's greed more than anything. | ||
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AllSalesFinal
United States211 Posts
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nikopat
France1 Post
C'mon KeSPA, let us have some fun. Is there any way in the future that Tastosis could ever cast a few Proleague matches at least? | ||
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Fishriot
United States621 Posts
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Sylfyre
Australia222 Posts
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Infernal Knight
United States557 Posts
Now for the mad scramble overnight as we wait to see what happens. | ||
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:26 GTR wrote: I wouldn't entirely blame KeSPA in this situation. It's mostly based on IEG's greed more than anything. Not greed. The OGN stream was the sorriest excuse for a stream I've ever seen. Lagged the entire season, substandard casters, trouble with the VODs, subsription fee too high. It was sheer incompetence and complacency. OGN was the weak link in KeSPA's global footprint and they seem to be taking care of it. | ||
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pekkasteele
Sweden80 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:18 ArchangelJada wrote: As i didnt follow the BW scene I dont know much about kespa but every time i hear something about them there doing something douchy, why they so lame? Same here. Every single time KESPA is brought up, there are bad news. SC2 was good before KESPA so why do we need them now with all the s*it they are doing? Let them have there players and leagues and we can have GSL, MLG, DH and so on. | ||
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budar
175 Posts
Btw, the "myth" of Korean casts being better is more a result of nonexistent or bad English casts for BW. I think it should be pretty obvious that a cast in a language you can understand has a lot more potential than a language you listen to just to hear things like "PLAGUUUUU" or people conveying excitement through screaming (which is almost never a good thing). | ||
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MinzySC2
United States261 Posts
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markrevival
United States222 Posts
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:30 pekkasteele wrote: Same here. Every single time KESPA is brought up, there are bad news. SC2 was good before KESPA so why do we need them now with all the s*it they are doing? Let them have there players and leagues and we can have GSL, MLG, DH and so on. Your GSL, MLG and DH are still there. No one is forcing you watching KeSPA content. | ||
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Chronos.
United States805 Posts
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RoberP
United Kingdom101 Posts
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Arc1
Poland849 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + well played | ||
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ElfenLied
Germany121 Posts
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WetSocks
United States953 Posts
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birchman
Sweden393 Posts
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:33 ElfenLied wrote: Does it also mean Proleague will not be on Television? I don't understand KeSPA as they allow a foreigner team to join their league, only to sneer at us the next best moment. Really hope EG-Liquid will support GomTV and join the GSTL next season. Haven't heard of anything yet. This seems to be way better for global e-sport... GSTL is a joke compared to Proleague. If GSTL was even worth joining, don't you think they would have done that over Proleague? | ||
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baldgye
United Kingdom1092 Posts
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Sigmur
Poland497 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:28 Fishriot wrote: This blows :/ Hopefully Sayle will do an english cast or something. Yep, as it was with BW, we put our hope in Sayle | ||
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
something like: "KeSPA changes broadcasting partners for English stream" The truth: We're getting a better, cheaper, more reliable stream from people that actually care. (Not OGN) Sorry for doa but this will be better for all of us. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:35 Gosi wrote: GSTL is a joke compared to Proleague. If GSTL was even worth joining, don't you think they would have done that over Proleague? It may be less popular but calling it a joke is a bit over the top no? | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
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cYaN
Norway3322 Posts
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Blaine
Italy188 Posts
Just a joke but the perception that KeSPA gives to almost everyone here is not far from this. | ||
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tili
United States1332 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:26 GTR wrote: I wouldn't put the entire blame on KeSPA in this situation. From what I understand, it's IEG's greed more than anything. Who is IEG? | ||
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DoA
Korea (South)599 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:29 Fyodor wrote: Not greed. The OGN stream was the sorriest excuse for a stream I've ever seen. Lagged the entire season, substandard casters, trouble with the VODs, subsription fee too high. It was sheer incompetence and complacency. OGN was the weak link in KeSPA's global footprint and they seem to be taking care of it. Totally true. The OSL did not go well at all last season. I got back to Korea and we've had plenty of time to improve things since then though and I can guarantee you this broadcast would have kicked ass. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:36 Fyodor wrote: Can we have an OP and title that aren't completely biased? something like: "KeSPA changes broadcasting partners for English stream" The truth: We're getting a better, cheaper, more reliable stream from people that actually care. (Not OGN) Sorry for doa but this will be better for all of us. Nothing is confirmed yet ;o I will admit the first SC2 OSL had a lotttt of problems and if someone else can do a better job while having it not be replays or a rebroadcast and we still get to see everything in the studio then that's OK. On December 06 2012 22:38 DoA wrote: Totally true. The OSL did not go well at all last season. I got back to Korea and we've had plenty of time to improve things since then though and I can guarantee you this broadcast would have kicked ass. Well fuck. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:20 Dodgin wrote: He must mean unofficially, as in they will cast from their studio on top of the Korean stream. That is, unless Kespa partnered with two different organizations in NA/EU to broadcast for them, MLG for the weekend matches that will air in the evening in PST/EST and the GDstudio to cast the weekday matches that will air mid-day for EU. Or he's trolling. Haha he is definitly trolling, it's 2gd . He just repeated what MLGLee twittered as a joke imo. | ||
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SeriousLus
169 Posts
a shame that we as the target group (as in "the viewers") cant do shit against that... not watching isnt really a viable option since we DO want to see cool matches and stuff.. infinitely bad story | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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pekkasteele
Sweden80 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:32 Gosi wrote: Your GSL, MLG and DH are still there. No one is forcing you watching KeSPA content. Yea but would be nice to see ProLeague with the EG-TL team, but now, instead, I won't be able to. Well I could, but a good caster, in English makes it so much more enjoyable. Now I will just feel, the players have focus on a league I don't care about. I rather se them play in GSTL or something like that than PL. | ||
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j1nzo
Germany367 Posts
i wonder if kespa realizes that they might possibly start destroying themselves? the foreign community is growing incredibly large, thus gaining more power. as far as i know nobody in the foreign scene likes kespa or wants to be affiliated with them. so they put themselves more and more into a lonely corner... i would also like to know the viewer numbers on gsl/esf and osl/kespa and if kespa even understands the consequences of their actions. so far, in almost 3 years of daily sc, i have never ever heared or read ONE positive word about kespa, correct me if i'm wrong. this is definitely a way of preventing esports to grow... is there any possibility that we get a liquid stream (e.g. w/ tsl casters?), as we compete in pl now, or is there no way b/c of missing rights to do so. | ||
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ssg
United States1773 Posts
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Gihi
384 Posts
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chrippa
Sweden15 Posts
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ZeBigMarn
Australia30 Posts
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laguu
Finland278 Posts
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:31 markrevival wrote: MLG makes me hate them more with every news update involving them. ...what? How is MLG related to this? Kespa has dropped OGN as their broadcaster for this, that's it. MLG has no involvement other than what Lee tweeted. Besides, if MLG is going to offer English casts of the Proleague when OGN has been dropped, why would you hate them because of it? "How DARE you offer me quality production for my viewing pleasure?! You sick bastards!" | ||
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Ornithorynquez
430 Posts
:D | ||
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Swish 41
Germany154 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:41 Ornithorynquez wrote: I missed so much Korean casts, i'm so fucking happy, it's raining good news today :DYou know that you could watch the korean cast without the english one to go away right? | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:41 Ornithorynquez wrote: I missed so much Korean casts, i'm so fucking happy, it's raining good news today :DThey were never gone, man. You would have had the option to see both. | ||
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Frankon
3054 Posts
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amazingoopah
United States1925 Posts
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:40 chrippa wrote: Sure it was a douche move to do this to OGN on such a short notice, but given how shitty the english OSL coverage was, can you blame them for wanting to change if MLG gave them a opportunity? I thought games where Grubby casting was good quality. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:43 Frankon wrote: im waiting for the news about EG and TL withdrawing from PL in case there would be no english cast. Regardless. If there truly won't be any english professional casting (actual casting prouction and not some rebroadcast over korean stream bullshit) Then not many people out side korea will watch it to be fair and I can't see EG-TL sign up for a second season, They will go to GSL team league instead. This really sucks for the EG-TL team. | ||
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ramask2
Thailand1024 Posts
I do feel absolutely horrible for Doa though. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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Kanaz
Denmark658 Posts
If Kespa want to be a big player in sc2, they need to please the foreign fan more. This is not a way to do that. That's why i liked GOM, they made sc2 global, giving us the best from korea. Now Kespa is back to try and control everything, and basicly ignore the huge foreign interrest in sc2 in korea. | ||
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Headnoob
Australia2108 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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Ded808
Australia116 Posts
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:49 Headnoob wrote: I much prefer my pro league in korean. I actually prefered the korean stream ifront of the OGN one for last proleague as well, OGN wasn't that good :/ | ||
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stjartrov
Sweden81 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:49 Kanaz wrote: I personally won't be watching this now. If Kespa want to be a big player in sc2, they need to please the foreign fan more. This is not a way to do that. That's why i liked GOM, they made sc2 global, giving us the best from korea. Now Kespa is back to try and control everything, and basicly ignore the huge foreign interrest in sc2 in korea. I'm not sure how you can think that this is them ignoring the foreign fans. If they invite foreign teams to SPL, they obviously have a plan to exploit the possibility of a lot of foreign viewers. A lot of people rushing to conclusions and not using their brains properly here. | ||
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Uquu
Finland474 Posts
I feel bad for you Doa tho since casting proleague was one of the reasons to move there. (if im correct that is.) Hope you have some backup plans. | ||
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:49 Kanaz wrote: I personally won't be watching this now. If Kespa want to be a big player in sc2, they need to please the foreign fan more. This is not a way to do that. That's why i liked GOM, they made sc2 global, giving us the best from korea. Now Kespa is back to try and control everything, and basicly ignore the huge foreign interrest in sc2 in korea. There will be an English stream, just not from OGN. | ||
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Qgelfich
Germany90 Posts
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mongmong
Korea (South)1389 Posts
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BiG
Germany153 Posts
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:52 Qgelfich wrote: I call for sayle! We demand sayle.... I hope he will be able to cast (and want to do so), I miss his PL casts. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:39 ReachTheSky wrote: Why the fuck would you incorporate a foreign team into proleague and then not have an english broadcast. I'm not going to sit and listen to a bunch of gibber jabber and over dramatic screaming that is korean commentary. how many MLGs were broadcast in korean? | ||
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6BiT
513 Posts
Myself not really fussed to be honest, with the esf teams missing (well the top 3-4) just doesn't feel like its as strong as it should be. Silly politics | ||
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BreakeR.
Austria220 Posts
I wont watch for sure until they have an english stream. | ||
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
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Buchan
Canada184 Posts
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
Why the fuck would they turn around and do this? | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:54 mcc wrote: I hope he will be able to cast (and want to do so), I miss his PL casts. I honestly doubt it. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
Works differently. Koreans are the best players = fact Best players get the most vierwers no matter the region = fact Piece these 2 together and you know its a completely different thing. | ||
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:54 mcc wrote: I hope he will be able to cast (and want to do so), I miss his PL casts. Well he did because last season there was BW games. Hardly think he will do SC2 only proleague. | ||
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Rollies
United Kingdom29 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:48 ThomasjServo wrote: I wonder who MLG would have cast if that agreement came to fruition. In all honesty those inclined to watch Pro League will still watch it, I don't think it will have as profound of an effect as some seem to be suggesting. Lol yeah. This website is full of over-dramatic reactions. Notice how most of those people always seem to have less then 30 posts. TL should find way to have people link their B.net accounts with their TL accounts. That way These dumb trolls wont have the ability to keep making endless accounts to post stupid shit. | ||
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FischiiiSC
Germany22 Posts
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Thrill
2599 Posts
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
I was really looking forward to the TL-EG matches wich put a freshness to this team league it really needed. I won't jump to conclusions but in a way i can't really blame Kespa for wanting to drop OGN for last season was a mess. Then again if that was the problem this could have solved long ago. Just hoping something is going to give and we get an english cast. Amazing how in a couple of years it totally changed from no foreign players yet have foreign casters, to foreign players yet no foreign casters. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:58 Rollies wrote: Why wait until this close to the league start to announce this? This, this and this. Shouldn't everything have been settled a month ago? | ||
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Thrill
2599 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:57 Assirra wrote: Best players get the most vierwers no matter the region = fact Absolutely not true. | ||
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LimitSEA
Australia9580 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
Says who? You? | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:57 Assirra wrote: Best players get the most vierwers no matter the region = fact Nope. Idra vs Stephano or Life vs Leenock, which showmatch would get more viewers? | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:01 Bagi wrote: Nope. Idra vs Stephano or Life vs Leenock, which showmatch would get more viewers? This is a pointless argument. | ||
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Majynx
United States1431 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:02 DarkLordOlli wrote: I'll watch the EG-TL matches because I support these teams but will for sure boycott everything else. FU KeSPA. Stop being a fucking dick. Oooow you're going to "boycott". Looks like you will be one of the few missing out then. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
Sounds like a very good argument to me. User was warned for this post | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
At the same time, we must activate the Sayle signal. Because he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector... a dark knight. | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:04 BlazeFury01 wrote: Oooow you're going to "boycott". Looks like you will be one of the few missing out then. Indeed. Not sure why you feel like responding to this though. I won't watch it because KeSPA is being a dick. If I'm missing out on their games, they're missing out on a potential viewer. If you don't understand that concept, you shouldn't respond to things that were not a question or remotely directed at you. | ||
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Leetley
1796 Posts
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phyre112
United States3090 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:01 Bagi wrote: Nope. Idra vs Stephano or Life vs Leenock, which showmatch would get more viewers? Life v. Leenock, easy. Even though everyone hates ZvZ right now. Anway, Kespa killing esports, blah blah blah - I was just going to watch Sayle restream this like I've watched proleague matches for the last forever anyway, so.... | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
The arguments pointless. Flash vs Jaedong or Idra vs Stephano? Also, Stephano is the best foreigner which qualifies him as one of the "best players". | ||
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gh0st
United States98 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:40 ssg wrote: EG and TL should throw a fucking fit THIS. Two foreigner teams dependent in many ways on a foreigner fan base to support themselves are now playing in a league that much less accessible to said fans. After lurking about on TL for 5-6 years now, I've noticed a few recurring themes, one of which is that anything Kespa touches leads to disappointment and needless frustration. And kudos to the guy asking about contracts in Korea. Are there no lawyers in E-Sports? | ||
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Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:08 BlazeFury01 wrote: The arguments pointless. Flash vs Jaedong or Idra vs Stephano? Still sounds like a good argument. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:08 BlazeFury01 wrote: The arguments pointless. Flash vs Jaedong or Idra vs Stephano? Is this in Sc2 ? If so are Flash and Jaedong the best ? nope. | ||
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kugel
Germany116 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
Keep trolling User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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ExSaint
Canada70 Posts
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
Please explain exactly how I am trolling and who.. @Bagi Dont use common sense here! god dammit | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:08 BlazeFury01 wrote: The arguments pointless. Flash vs Jaedong or Idra vs Stephano? That's funny because you are only further proving my point. Flash and Jaedong are not as good as Leenock/Life either, but their showmatch would get a lot more interest. There are other factors at play besides being the best player. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:08 gh0st wrote: THIS. Two foreigner teams dependent in many ways on a foreigner fan base to support themselves are now playing in a league that much less accessible to said fans. After lurking about on TL for 5-6 years now, I've noticed a few recurring themes, one of which is that anything Kespa touches leads to disappointment and needless frustration. And kudos to the guy asking about contracts in Korea. Are there no lawyers in E-Sports? Totally agree. Come on TL and EG, fight this Kespa behavior | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:12 Bagi wrote: That's funny because you are only further proving my point. Flash and Jaedong are not as good as Leenock/Life either, but their showmatch would get a lot more interest. There are other factors at play besides being the best player. It's contradictory actually. Because Stephano is the best foreigner which in other words is a best player. | ||
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Pimpmuckl
Germany528 Posts
And now this? Like whaaaaaaaaat? I don't get it. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:13 BlazeFury01 wrote: It's contradictory actually. Because Stephano is the best foreigner which in other words is a best player. I have feeling we are arguing two different things, so I'm just gonna drop it. | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:14 Pimpmuckl wrote: I don't get KeSPA. First they lean Jaedong AND let EGTL take place in the most prestigious team league ever. And now this? Like whaaaaaaaaat? I don't get it. It's KeSPA. If there's anything to learn about them, it's that they don't give a shit about anything except their struggle to dominate the world, starting with eSports in korea. | ||
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Bizeheryer
Germany307 Posts
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OopsOopsBaby
Singapore3425 Posts
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b3n3tt3
595 Posts
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:14 Pimpmuckl wrote: I don't get KeSPA. First they lean Jaedong AND let EGTL take place in the most prestigious team league ever. And now this? Like whaaaaaaaaat? I don't get it. Correction: in the most BW prestigious team league. Cannot say this yet for SC2. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
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Hatsu
United Kingdom474 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:15 Bagi wrote: I have feeling we are arguing two different things, so I'm just gonna drop it. Well, I was just trolling you hah. I was waiting for you to bring up one name and one name only. That name being Destiny. He's the quintessential of no skill and high viewer count. | ||
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hautfein
13 Posts
I normally watch any tournament with sound off to prevent myself from brain damage by listening to completely wrong assessments from Day9 and other self-centered casters. If there is one thing the Esports community should stop it's throwing money at casters for basically doing nothing but throwing their mostly uneducated opinion at the game. Many progamers have stated that it's a far better job to be a caster and if we change that more money can go to the players enforcing a stronger competition. Nice move, Kespa! | ||
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TR
2320 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:07 Leetley wrote: Whatever. More important thing is that there is SOME stream that I can watch the games from. This. I don't really care either if there's no english casters. I actually enjoy korean casting a lot so I'm ok as far as I can see all the games in ok stream quality. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
i will also say that i will always prefer korean casters. they provide so much excitement for a match, there are only a handful of english casters that can compare and none of those select few have said anything about being contact by kespa anyways. | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:17 HomeWorld wrote: Correction: in the most BW prestigious team league. Cannot say this yet for SC2. Well they did try that retarded stunt with banning their players from GSL before being forced out of it by ESF boycotts and community pressure. | ||
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Krogan
Sweden375 Posts
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Ketch
Netherlands7285 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:15 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's KeSPA. If there's anything to learn about them, it's that they don't give a shit about anything except their struggle to dominate the world, starting with eSports in korea. Narf! So, if Kespa is The Brain who always fails at taking over the world, who is Pinky? Anyway, not a good move of Kespa, sucks for OGN and Doa/Moletrap, sucks for us, hope it gets sorted out soon and hope that someone (Blizaard?) will try to regulate Kespa a bit... | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:15 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's KeSPA. If there's anything to learn about them, it's that they don't give a shit about anything except their struggle to dominate the world, starting with eSports in korea. Well, Kespa did "create and solidify" esports in Korea. According to the Wikipedia page Kespa manages a total of 25 different games. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
i would never watch lol its so boring ...why kespa fucking around everywhere they can ... | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:20 hautfein wrote: In my opinion this is actually a good thing. Kespa saves a large amount of money by not paying overpaid and mostly incompetent western casters. I normally watch any tournament with sound off to prevent myself from brain damage by listening to completely wrong assessments from Day9 and other self-centered casters. If there is one thing the Esports community should stop it's throwing money at casters for basically doing nothing but throwing their mostly uneducated opinion at the game. Many progamers have stated that it's a far better job to be a caster and if we change that more money can go to the players enforcing a stronger competition. Nice move, Kespa! If you get rid of WheatDay9 Tastosis Bitterdam WolfKhaldor and TBApollo without replacements that are just as good I can assure you most will just stop watching SC2 altogether. Have fun when sponsors all pull out. | ||
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ZerglingTwins
United States850 Posts
It just says OGN can't broadcast with English casters, doesn't say there will be no English casters from KeSPA. Probably MLG is in this deal, Axslav to the rescue!!!!! | ||
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gh0st
United States98 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:20 hautfein wrote: In my opinion this is actually a good thing. Kespa saves a large amount of money by not paying overpaid and mostly incompetent western casters. I normally watch any tournament with sound off to prevent myself from brain damage by listening to completely wrong assessments from Day9 and other self-centered casters. If there is one thing the Esports community should stop it's throwing money at casters for basically doing nothing but throwing their mostly uneducated opinion at the game. Many progamers have stated that it's a far better job to be a caster and if we change that more money can go to the players enforcing a stronger competition. Nice move, Kespa! 1) There are several competent casters out there. If Kespa wants to be frugal, hire Apollo and have him solo cast ala Tasteless circa 2006. I don't know if Apollo would want this job, but he'd be an absolutely fantastic choice. 2) Kespa stands to get more foreign viewers by providing an English cast, which means more ad revenue, i.e. more money to pay caster(s). It's not a zero-sum game. 3) A casual viewer doesn't care whether the analysis is tip-top, he just wants to have someone do play-by-play and explain what's happening in a language he understands. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
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MiQ
Canada312 Posts
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:17 HomeWorld wrote: Correction: in the most BW prestigious team league. Cannot say this yet for SC2. Sort of makes it the most prestigious SC2 as well. Its got that lineage and history that makes it prestigious. That is why older traditions are most pretigious, because they've been around longer, not necessarily because they are better. IE: Winning a World Championship, when maybe the competition was better at nationals. (No real examples, but still.) | ||
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Zarjax
United States44 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:24 Ketch wrote: Narf! So, if Kespa is The Brain who always fails at taking over the world, who is Pinky? MLG is pinky, obviously | ||
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imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
MLG: What are we going to this season Kespa? Kespa: The same thing we do every season. Try to take over eSports! | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
Because right now I read it like this: "Hey guys, Kespa fucked OGN after half a year of preparation, 1 week before the event. And you know what? They gave us the rights instead, aren't you happy for us??? :D :D" | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
MLG must watch up, if they got all the hate from the kespa thing its so bad for reputation, i even think to cancel gold membership because of such things ! | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:29 TheRavensName wrote: Sort of makes it the most prestigious SC2 as well. Its got that lineage and history that makes it prestigious. That is why older traditions are most pretigious, because they've been around longer, not necessarily because they are better. IE: Winning a World Championship, when maybe the competition was better at nationals. (No real examples, but still.) By your logic Liverpool is still relevant in football. Proleague was top dog in SCBW, cool. I'm sure some SC2 fans would argue that GSTL thus far has its place as top team league, especially after that hybrid league disaster. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:31 BlazeFury01 wrote: Imagine Pro League with Apollo and Axslav. jaeh, super analytic, correct, without any question professionel, but still boring cast ,.. juhuu ... it isnt the same from the other side of the planet dude | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:32 CoR wrote: jaeh, super analytic, correct, without any question professionel, but still boring cast ,.. juhuu ... it isnt the same from the other side of the planet dude Well, It's kinda hard to get both. You could mix and match I suppose. What about Axeloss and Artosis? Hah | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:20 hautfein wrote: In my opinion this is actually a good thing. Kespa saves a large amount of money by not paying overpaid and mostly incompetent western casters. I normally watch any tournament with sound off to prevent myself from brain damage by listening to completely wrong assessments from Day9 and other self-centered casters. If there is one thing the Esports community should stop it's throwing money at casters for basically doing nothing but throwing their mostly uneducated opinion at the game. Many progamers have stated that it's a far better job to be a caster and if we change that more money can go to the players enforcing a stronger competition. Nice move, Kespa! jaeh you not liking castings its like say "oh football without commentators is so much better jaeh nice" and 99% of the people shut down the tv... day9 artosis tastless apollo and co are the reason for me and alot of others to watch it ... i not watch the mlg top8 finals because of i dont like the casters | ||
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Lyter
United Kingdom2145 Posts
 tis a shame though nonetheless | ||
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Gnomie
Denmark39 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:24 BlazeFury01 wrote: Well, Kespa did "create and solidify" esports in Korea. According to the Wikipedia page Kespa manages a total of 25 different games. That. Is a really cool story. And also totally irrelevant. You're saying that England should dominate the soccer world and have control over every single player, broadcast, ETC. just because that's where it started? According to your logic, they should have every right to demand that! + Show Spoiler + No, it's retarded. Just because they more or less started it it doesn't mean they automatically have the right to control all other eSports organisations in Korea (OGN, GOM, ESF, etc). Starcraft does not belong to them. Sure KeSPA did a lot of things to popularize eSports in Korea but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to just dick around wherever they want and demand some kind of super-power that allows them to control what every other organisation does. Which, sadly, is what KeSPA keeps trying to do. | ||
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:17 Fluffboll wrote: I do not enjoy watching a game which is ruined by korean commentators. Not everyone is you, some people do not like korean casts for whatever reason. There is so much other SC2 content everywhere that I do not need to torture myself with horrible korean casts to watch StarCraft 2. You didn't answer the question, do you watch starcraft 2 for the casts, or for the games? Torture yourself with korean casts? just mute the cast, this is exactly what I do with casters I don't like, rather than go and cry about it or not watch the games, I just mute them - wolf and khaldor I'm looking at you. Yet you don't answer the question. This isn't really about opinions, it's about the fact people watch starcraft for the games, not the commentary, or at least they fucking should. On December 06 2012 22:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Obviously some people on TL won't care. But everyone here speaks and understands English. Not nearly as many people speak or understand Korean. And language barriers are a pretty big deal for a lot of people watching a game that has commentary, unless you want to watch it on mute. As important as high quality games are, many viewers (especially the newer audience who hasn't been watching Korean commentary since BW and playguuuu, etc.) need good casting in a language they understand, partially to keep them focused and hyped and entertained, and partially for the learning and insight. Regardless, the fact that apparently Kespa is straight-out refusing to have English commentators is a blow to the globalization process for them, and it shows that they're not trying to be team players or appeal to a bigger crowd. I hope they get some blowback (either in their numbers being smaller than GOM's, or pressure from MLG) so that English commentary (by casters the community feels comfortable with) is at least an option. Because a lot of people really do care about this. It's not like having English commentators means you can't have Korean ones too. While I understand your point, it's a very weak one at the most. Incase you haven't noticed viewer numbers/fans are going down, not up. The ones that remain are the more dedicated and interested fans who shouldn't need someone else to hype up the game or entertain them, the games and players are enough for that. That was certainly the case in BW games, and if GSL hadn't had any English casts at all, would this thread even be here right now? I just think it's just laughable that the foreign audience takes any chance they can get to slate Kespa, and then are surprised when Kespa seems to not give a fuck about them. The same foreign audience who, as soon as foreigners are knocked out of a tournament and it turns into korean vs korean decide they no longer want to watch? | ||
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Existential
Australia2107 Posts
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Big-t
Austria1350 Posts
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eight.BiT
United States240 Posts
edit: Accidentally a word. | ||
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Stress
United States980 Posts
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ninjamyst
United States1903 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:39 Big-t wrote: So am I getting this right? Kespa is again the roots of all evil? I wouldn't go that far lol but that certainly have made a bunch of shady business decisions. Keep in mind though, they made SC what it is now and without them SC would have just been any other RTS. | ||
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
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DeathSquire36
United States167 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:31 Zandar wrote: Why is MLG tweeting so enthusiastic, it feels like really bad marketing at the moment. Because right now I read it like this: "Hey guys, Kespa fucked OGN after half a year of preparation, 1 week before the event. And you know what? They gave us the rights instead, aren't you happy for us??? :D :D" Where does it say any of this anywhere? Right now everybody's just speculating. The only thing MLG related at all is one tweet by Lee asking if people would be interested in an English Proleague stream. If you see "enthusiastic" tweeting, you're projecting your own dislike of MLG onto this. | ||
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Hyeon
Korea (South)462 Posts
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:31 Zandar wrote: Why is MLG tweeting so enthusiastic, it feels like really bad marketing at the moment. Because right now I read it like this: "Hey guys, Kespa fucked OGN after half a year of preparation, 1 week before the event. And you know what? They gave us the rights instead, aren't you happy for us??? :D :D" This is too funny! Smiley faces included | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:37 BigBossX wrote: Yet you don't answer the question. This isn't really about opinions, it's about the fact people watch starcraft for the games, not the commentary, or at least they fucking should. Who the hell are you to tell people how they should decide what to watch? | ||
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Michaels
419 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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plgElwood
Germany518 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
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DurandaL917
United States92 Posts
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Irre
United States646 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:31 Zandar wrote: Why is MLG tweeting so enthusiastic, it feels like really bad marketing at the moment. Because right now I read it like this: "Hey guys, Kespa fucked OGN after half a year of preparation, 1 week before the event. And you know what? They gave us the rights instead, aren't you happy for us??? :D :D" I really feel like this is true. I really doubt they will let proleague be without an english stream if they specifically headlined the season opener with its first foreign team. Sounds like MLG more than Kespa at work here. Sorry to Doa, love his casting ever since he started working with Wolf in Code A. Hope you get to do more sc2 in the future. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
If every non-Kespa entity including OGN decided to isolate and boycott Kespa all they have left is a 7 team proleague featuring a dying Team 8. And MLG I suppose | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
If MLG truely streams i'm pretty sure it's their "fault" (if you want to call it like that) that the plans of DoA and OGN didn't work out. Just kind of a bitch move (from KeSPA) that they pulled out so late, especially if DoA and OGN had worked for months to ensure a good OSL production. This is of course purely speculation, but i'd honestly be surprised if that tweet was meaningless. | ||
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D.B
Canada4 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:46 Michaels wrote: I dislike Doa and his "I didnt get this job, boycott those fuckers" attitude. If KeSPa found someone better to broadcast their league than im OK with that since OGN OSL broadcast was fucking terrible. Did you even read what he wrote??? | ||
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Baptista
Poland141 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:56 Raggamuffinoo wrote: Sayle, WE NEED YOU NOW MORE THAN EVER! Let's get back to trenches, YEah! | ||
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Kambing
United States1176 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:45 MrMotionPicture wrote: Korea streams of proleague will make it feel more like BW, and that is never a bad thing. You're flat out wrong. This is a bad thing. We are not in the BW-era of Starcraft where Starcraft is a Korean phenomena with minuscule foreign interest. Foreign interests dominates Starcraft 2, and those fans are getting slighted of the some of the highest quality play on the planet because of Kespa being Kespa. | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Also, this pisses me off | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
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KanoCoke
Japan863 Posts
Idiots can't read. Anyway, I'm interested in what Mr. James Harding has planned. Is it really just trolling, or does he actually have a plan set for invading Pro League? | ||
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:46 S_SienZ wrote: Who the hell are you to tell people how they should decide what to watch? Because it's freaking OBVIOUS. No one watches ANY sport for the commentary, if you don't like cricket, do you tune in anyway for the commentary? tennis? football? No, you tune in for the god damned sport. | ||
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:58 Otolia wrote: All this stuff places TL in a very precarious position. MLG will not hesitate to side with KeSPA if there is any profit to be made and so probably will EG as they have no reason to withdrew from PL but TL is different. Despite the unconditional love for PL, I don't think Nazgul would accept the diktat of KeSPA so this unholy alliance might crumble even before it start :[ What? TL thumbs this up massively. Anyone would do a better job than OGN for the English broadcast. | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:19 Elroi wrote: the korean casting is always way better anyway (as any bw fan would tell you). and like this they will probably not implement the stupid fucking pay to view system. I can tell you as a BW fan that Korean casting is something I put up with, not something I enjoy. I'll take a good English commentator any day. | ||
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TheMooseHeed
United Kingdom535 Posts
Was just wondering who is making these decisions | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:59 KanoCoke wrote: Idiots can't read. Anyway, I'm interested in what Mr. James Harding has planned. Is it really just trolling, or does he actually have a plan set for invading Pro League? He posted exactly what MLGLee posted. So it was 99% trolling. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:59 BigBossX wrote: Because it's freaking OBVIOUS. No one watches ANY sport for the commentary, if you don't like cricket, do you tune in anyway for the commentary? tennis? football? No, you tune in for the god damned sport. I know plenty of people who don't give 2 shits about football but still watch the World Cup for a variety of other reasons. Just because some things ought to be does not mean they are. Just cause you claim something as fact, does not mean it is. | ||
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splasha
Brazil86 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4727 Posts
All in all that doesn't sound too good. | ||
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
By the way i don't personally give 2 cent about OGN casting this,just give the job to anyone,there are tons of people waiting for it,hell just hire ToD. | ||
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4ZakeN87
Sweden1071 Posts
I mean for all the sponsors of TL and EG besides the team themselves this is obviously really bad news. This was the big thing going into 2013 for EG and TL and it just got turned to shit. Same thing with all other teams, are no of the others teams and all their sponsors interested in publicity towards the rest of the world? Seems like everyone loses. That´s how you know that the people in charge are retarded. | ||
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multiversed
United States233 Posts
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KanoCoke
Japan863 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:02 HolydaKing wrote: He posted exactly what MLGLee posted. So it was 99% trolling. There's still that 1%. | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:59 BigBossX wrote: Because it's freaking OBVIOUS. No one watches ANY sport for the commentary, if you don't like cricket, do you tune in anyway for the commentary? tennis? football? No, you tune in for the god damned sport. Well, I watch lower quality soccer streams with english commentators rather than HD soccer on my TV with german commentators. Why? It's WAAAY more professional and I've learned more about soccer by watching them than I've learned during the years I played the damn sport. For me it's similar with SC2. That's why I love high analysis casters more than anything else. If need be, I'll still watch a game if there's like technical difficulties and no english stream for some reason. But KeSPA is really just being a fucking dick, as always, that's why I won't be watching this except for EG-TL matches. | ||
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hautfein
13 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:35 CoR wrote: jaeh you not liking castings its like say "oh football without commentators is so much better jaeh nice" and 99% of the people shut down the tv... day9 artosis tastless apollo and co are the reason for me and alot of others to watch it ... i not watch the mlg top8 finals because of i dont like the casters I'm not saying there shouldn't be any english casting at all (wouldn't be too bad in my opinion though). I'm saying organizations should stop paying famous people tons of money for doing the easiest job in the world. As we have seen before casters are pretty much exchangable as batteries. Many pro players do a far better job at casting than so called professional casters (Grubby and Idra for example). Look at Homestory Cup. Part of the reason why it is so successful is because it has actually knowledgable casters. Some time ago it was said that tastosis gets paid about 10 to 15k for casting a major 3 day event. This is insane if you consider how relatively little money all the players get who are actually playing there. Not long ago there was also a youtube caster who explained why he had stopped casting. It was because the famous, wealthy casters occupied all the castings jobs and tried to keep others out of business. If I think of how much money the Plott brothers get for their medicore casting and how many times they have screwed up their assessments of situations and how little money very, very good korean players get the only conclusion is that we live in a very fucked up system and I appreciate any change to that. | ||
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DidYuhim
Ukraine1905 Posts
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mtvacuum
United States979 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:08 DidYuhim wrote: someone might rebroadcast anyway. There's a song by awolnation about said hero. | ||
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nubcak3
United States104 Posts
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Joestar
Sweden87 Posts
Now it seems wasted unless a miracle happens. Any chance that MLG will use the casting team that was planned, Doa? | ||
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:07 DarkLordOlli wrote: Well, I watch lower quality soccer streams with english commentators rather than HD soccer on my TV with german commentators. Why? It's WAAAY more professional and I've learned more about soccer by watching them than I've learned during the years I played the damn sport. For me it's similar with SC2. That's why I love high analysis casters more than anything else. If need be, I'll still watch a game if there's like technical difficulties and no english stream for some reason. But KeSPA is really just being a fucking dick, as always, that's why I won't be watching this except for EG-TL matches. It's not like you are making a stand or something by just watching EG-TL matches. Thats pretty much how everyone does with Proleague since it's so many matches and you kind of follow your team only just like in regular sport. Sure people that ain't KT or SKT1 fans may watch those rival matches aswell because they are awesome, and you also have people actually watching everything because they are FPL freaks. But yeah, nothing else is really expected from you when you have a team in Proleague. | ||
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pms
Poland611 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:18 pms wrote: Disgusting. Basically, I'm not going to watch Proleague. Your loss. I doubt anybody will miss you. Why are people on this website so dramatic? Haha I guess his name says it all! :D | ||
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:45 MrMotionPicture wrote: Korea streams of proleague will make it feel more like BW, and that is never a bad thing. Yes that's a very bad thing unless you want to go back to the old days where you had 20 guys on TL having a nice group chat and wondering why they cant grow Esport! | ||
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Big-t
Austria1350 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:46 Michaels wrote: I dislike Doa and his "I didnt get this job, boycott those fuckers" attitude. If KeSPa found someone better to broadcast their league than im OK with that since OGN OSL broadcast was fucking terrible. OMG READ! | ||
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4ZakeN87
Sweden1071 Posts
Weird! If I dont like a commentator or it is in a language I dont understand I mute and put on a soundtrack. | ||
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FakeLife
United States41 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:15 Gosi wrote: It's not like you are making a stand or something by just watching EG-TL matches. Thats pretty much how everyone does with Proleague since it's so many matches and you kind of follow your team only just like in regular sport. Sure people that ain't KT or SKT1 fans may watch those rival matches aswell because they are awesome, and you also have people actually watching everything because they are FPL freaks. But yeah, nothing else is really expected from you when you have a team in Proleague. You might be right with that but I still know that I would watch every single game I have time for if KeSPA didn't dick around. So at least I know that they lose a potential viewer at times. I'm not under the illusion that me not watching these games is really gonna change anything but hey, if everybody thought that way we'd never get anywhere. I only watch EG-TL matches because my support for those teams > my not-support for KeSPA. | ||
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Notfragile
Greece713 Posts
Firstly, this is a move that does nothing but hinder KeSPA's acceptance by the sc2 fanbase that was not BW hardcores. And that fanbase is far more extended than the BW hardcores that will forgive KeSPA (or even praise them) for the shit they throw to other organisations/foreign fans. Bad move, simple as that. Secondly, there will definately be a restream of Proleague's games in english. Or even muting the sound and talking over the live stream or whatever. After al, EG-TL has entered (and also EG-JD, all the BW legends playing, etc) and now that the interest for PL has peaked, there will be enough demand for it. Thirdly, some people here -who I won't dare express my oppinion about them and their e-peens,- brag about prefering to watch the Korean streams over the English streams. Bravo! We get it, you are mega-Korean-gosu-hardcore-elephant-Kpop. You were on this site since the dawn of time. But here we are talking about the rest of the SCII fans outside of Korea who DO NOT want to be forced listen to a language they don't understand. This attitude of KeSPA should not be praised by anyone, especially if you call yourself an old time SC fan. How does this stream of disappointing and in some cases plain retarded (*cough*Rain forfeiting codeS to hurt GomTV viewership and grab foreign attention and subsequently failing both in and out of Korea*cough*) actions, help SCII grow? It only creates a circle of self entitled fanaticism by the BW diehards and a negativity towards everything KeSPA by the rest of the foreign community (who I repeat are severely outnumbering the former category). I really hope both EG and TL consider this cancelation of the OGN broadcast as an unnecessary power play that conflicts with their interests and start showing KeSPA they cannot get away with anything they want anymore. + Show Spoiler + Finally, as for my stance on this, I am torn (as I believe many people here). Boycotting KeSPA because the removal of their SCHEDULED official stream is an offence to me as a foreign fan VS watching the famed Proleague come live on SCII with all the BW legends plus EG-TL as a bonus. But since it's not the first or the second or even the third time they are throwing shit at other organisations, people and foreign fans in the short time they are involved in SCII, boycotting them so they see there is a backlash caused by their shady politics, seems more appropriate to me. | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:20 4ZakeN87 wrote: How can some many people prefer to listen to commentating in a language they dont understand shit of? Weird! If I dont like a commentator or it is in a language I dont understand I mute and put on a soundtrack. It's the emotion they release when commentating my good man. You can feel it | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:18 BlazeFury01 wrote: People acting like English cast has been completely removed. There's always stream casting. Get a couple English casters together and have them commentate the games as they're going on. There's no need for a rebroadcast to do this. They can also generate revenue from the viewers. That's only a solution for some people. You HAVE to watch live, and timezones mean that is simply not an option for some people. | ||
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Fueled
United States1610 Posts
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ajxPurpleRain
United States87 Posts
P.S. Considering DoA's overall gentlemanly countenance and commitment to the SC, I have to believe they screwed him pretty good to get this response. | ||
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VManOfMana
United States764 Posts
Stop being drama queens. Let's see what happens. | ||
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pekkasteele
Sweden80 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:19 BlazeFury01 wrote: Your loss. I doubt anybody will miss you. Why are people on this website so dramatic? No ultimately it is the games loss, he is not the only one that will not watch due to this. It means less views, less exposure for the sponsors and then less money for the teams. And it will for SURE not create any more followers outside of Korea, English Casters could at least potentially do that. | ||
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iEatWoofers
Switzerland108 Posts
I guess I won't be watching Proleague then. Really wanted to see EG.TL tear shit up :'( Any chance someone will just commentate over the korean stream? | ||
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atrox_
United Kingdom1710 Posts
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:21 DarkLordOlli wrote: You might be right with that but I still know that I would watch every single game I have time for if KeSPA didn't dick around. So at least I know that they lose a potential viewer at times. I'm not under the illusion that me not watching these games is really gonna change anything but hey, if everybody thought that way we'd never get anywhere. I only watch EG-TL matches because my support for those teams > my not-support for KeSPA. You realise your viewing of EG-TL matches doesn't actually do anything for them. | ||
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:22 S_SienZ wrote: That's only a solution for some people. You HAVE to watch live, and timezones mean that is simply not an option for some people. Artosis and them are already in Korea. Also, who is the "some people" your referring to? I made my statement as an alternative to the situation, not a permanent replacement. | ||
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pms
Poland611 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:19 BlazeFury01 wrote: Your loss. I doubt anybody will miss you. Why are people on this website so dramatic? Haha I guess his name says it all! :D Well, actually I wish all the best to Proleague, but this is not the way to appeal to a broader audience than just Koreans and a bunch of BW hardcore followers. Although I started to follow the SC scene with BW, I'm not going to watch broadcasts in Korean, this is a system that is way to closed and self-focused for me, and thousands alike, imho... | ||
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:25 atrox_ wrote: get Sayle back Dream outcome would be MLG paying Sayle to cast from whereever he is. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:26 BlazeFury01 wrote: Artosis and them are already in Korea. Also, who is the "some people" your referring to? I made my statement as an alternative to the situation, not a permanent replacement. GOM has VODs. The "some people"? People who are in inconvenient timezones and have jobs / commitments which prevent them from staying up at crazy hours? | ||
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sYz-Adrenaline
United States1850 Posts
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:27 pms wrote: Well, actually I wish all the best to Proleague, but this is not the way to appeal to a broader audience than just Koreans and a bunch of BW hardcore followers. Although I started to follow the SC scene with BW, I'm not going to watch broadcasts in Korean, this is a system that is way to closed and self-focused for me, and thousands alike, imho... But there will be English casters commentating the game live...they just won't be at the event :d | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:25 BigBossX wrote: You realise your viewing of EG-TL matches doesn't actually do anything for them. Imagine everybody tuned in for EG-TL matches and nobody tuned in for any other matches. Would that benefit EG and TL? Pretty sure it would, even if not in the form of immediate money (at least I don't think so). The more people tune in, the more attractive to sponsors, blahblahblah. You know the deal. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
So much for people claiming that Kespa will bring a whole new level of professionalism into the sc2 scene. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:27 Solarsail wrote: Dream outcome would be MLG paying Sayle to cast from whereever he is. How exactly is that better than professional MLG casters doing it? | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:28 S_SienZ wrote: ah I see what you mean now. I didn't read it correctly. You can always go back and see the commentate games via the commentators twitch.tv page. We should have opter post links on the thread of the English casters twitch pages that way anybody who missed the event can watch it later.GOM has VODs. The "some people"? People who are in inconvenient timezones and have jobs / commitments which prevent them from staying up at crazy hours? | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
No English cast for Pro League? Hmm. Digging into it now. | ||
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Ziken
Ghana1743 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:22 S_SienZ wrote: That's only a solution for some people. You HAVE to watch live, and timezones mean that is simply not an option for some people. Not to mention for some of us our net doesnt support having multiple streams running at one time | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:32 Bagi wrote: How exactly is that better than professional MLG casters doing it? It isn't. I don't know what's up with the contingent of people with a hardon for Sayle, especially when you have guys like Axslav who could do the job. | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:36 forsooth wrote: It isn't. I don't know what's up with the contingent of people with a hardon for Sayle, especially when you have guys like Axslav who could do the job. I'm pretty sure it's just about who deserves the money in that case. And I think Sayle absolutely, absolutely does deserve some money for everything he's done even though he might not be the best/highest analysis caster in the business (even though I really enjoyed him). Have him co-cast with Axslav and I'm raaaale happy | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:59 opisska wrote: This way, we may soon get rid of all the notorious KeSPA defenders on TL. Where? I've been here since 2003 and all KeSPA's ever done is fuck shit up for the community. I'm not at all surprised. As a side note, having not watched professional SC2 in nine months, I was considering tuning in to KT vs TL-EG. Not anymore. | ||
MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
EDIT: MLG TO THE RESCUE! I hope... | ||
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:39 MLG_Adam wrote: Working on it guys. Good stuff. Any way to throw money at you guys right away? | ||
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Luiwtf
England217 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:38 DarkLordOlli wrote: I'm pretty sure it's just about who deserves the money in that case. And I think Sayle absolutely, absolutely does deserve some money for everything he's done even though he might not be the best/highest analysis caster in the business (even though I really enjoyed him). Have him co-cast with Axslav and I'm raaaale happy We absolutely there to be an official English broadcast. Or rather, TL and EG need it. If its Sayle, it can't be him restreaming in 240p and basically shooting the shit...that doesn't give TL and EG the proper exposure they deserve by entering Proleague. The pro SC2 scene needs to do better than amateurs casting from home lol. | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
We're working on it now. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:38 Meta wrote: Where? I've been here since 2003 and all KeSPA's ever done is fuck shit up for the community. I'm not at all surprised. As a side note, having not watched professional SC2 in nine months, I was considering tuning in to KT vs TL-EG. Not anymore. There were some of them during the endless ESF vs Kespa debate, while Kespa was short to moving onto sc2. Some of them had quite valid points for all the shit that happened in the lawless sc2 scene, but also some arguments like "Kespa is only interested in promoting eSports, hence all their events have free HQ and free vods" were proven false quite fast. Anyways, we'll see what will happen (in the next day). | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:43 MLG_Adam wrote: The problem has always been stream license issues. That is why MvP was PPV. MLG, Kespa, and IEG wanted it to be free. We're working on it now. Interesting. I will love you forever and buy 20 gold passes if you have it sorted by the first match : D | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:41 Fyodor wrote: Good stuff. Any way to throw money at you guys right away? Cmon don't get fooled. MLG asked on twitter 2 days ago if they should cast proleague. They are not stepping in as the saviours now, they were in contact with KeSPA back then and may have caused OGN to get kicked out. source: https://twitter.com/MLGLee/status/276069676562386945 Don't act like you are "diggin into it now", MLG. | ||
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29 fps
United States5724 Posts
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Leetley
1796 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:39 MLG_Adam wrote: Working on it guys. Glad to hear.  On December 07 2012 00:45 29 fps wrote: im okay with this. it'll be like the broodwar days: dunno what the korean casters are saying, but can feel their enthusiasm for the game. Korean casting in its way is amazing, yes. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
BW with korean commentary is a bliss (yes, present tense!!), and I do not expect it to add less entertainment than a SC2 caster would. People need to give it a chance before screaming "NOOO!", it is unexpectedly good since it gives such a nice mood. | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:44 00Visor wrote: Cmon don't get fooled. MLG asked on twitter 2 days ago if they should cast proleague. They are not stepping in as the saviours now, they were in contact with KeSPA back then and may have caused OGN to get kicked out. I can tell you right now we never caused anyone to get kicked out. This is news to us as well. We wanted to cast Pro League as a rebroadcast in EST prime time hours, we didn't know there would be no English cast. Again, we're working on it now. | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:48 MLG_Adam wrote: I can tell you right now we never caused anyone to get kicked out. This is news to us as well. We wanted to cast Pro League as a rebroadcast in EST prime time hours, we didn't know there would be no English cast. Again, we're working on it now. this is news to you now? I don't think so MLGLee tweeted this 2 days ago https://twitter.com/MLGLee/status/276069676562386945 "streamed" doesnt sound like rebroadcast to me | ||
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pekkasteele
Sweden80 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:43 MLG_Adam wrote: The problem has always been stream license issues. That is why MvP was PPV. MLG, Kespa, and IEG wanted it to be free. We're working on it now. Licensing to whom? And how come it's not a problem to show free HD brodcast for Dreamhack etc? | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:49 00Visor wrote: this is news to you now? I don't think so MLGLee tweeted this 2 days ago https://twitter.com/MLGLee/status/276069676562386945 I'm guessing you're not reading what I wrote. We wanted to have nightly content during US prime time hours that leveraged Pro League matches. This is not apples to apples. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:48 MLG_Adam wrote: I can tell you right now we never caused anyone to get kicked out. This is news to us as well. We wanted to cast Pro League as a rebroadcast in EST prime time hours, we didn't know there would be no English cast. Again, we're working on it now. If you were going to do this would you have shots of the players/venue/everything else or would you just be given the replays to cast? The latter would be pretty boring imo. | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:50 MLG_Adam wrote: I'm guessing you're not reading what I wrote. We wanted to have nightly content during US prime time hours that leveraged Pro League matches. This is not apples to apples. I did read, "streamed" doesnt sound like rebroadcast to me. And it seems weird to have it casted in English by 2 different organisations. But well, I can only take your words for now. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:49 00Visor wrote: this is news to you now? I don't think so MLGLee tweeted this 2 days ago https://twitter.com/MLGLee/status/276069676562386945 "streamed" doesnt sound like rebroadcast to me he literally just explained that tweet and you're doubting him? Why would kespa kick out their long term partner in OGN for MLG? Answer, they wouldn't. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
Some of the posts in this thread are shady. | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:53 emythrel wrote: he literally just explained that tweet and you're doubting him? Why would kespa kick out their long term partner in OGN for MLG? Answer, they wouldn't. For moneyzzzzz and more international recognition. I wouldn't put it beyond KeSPA, whether or not MLG was intentionally involved with this I can't say. Could very well be the reason why KeSPA did what they did though without MLG actually plotting anything at all. | ||
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snorlax1
Singapore233 Posts
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:53 00Visor wrote: I did read, "streamed" doesnt sound like rebroadcast to me. And it seems weird to have it casted in English by 2 different organisations. But well, I can only take your words for now. Why is that weird? In the UK premiership football is broadcast live by Sky Sports and then shown in highlights by BBC later that night. Its actually quite common for sports to be broadcast live by one organisation and then rebroadcast by another one.... | ||
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NguN
Australia1322 Posts
If so, we should be up in arms petitioning for them to change this. They added a foreign team to increase non-Korean viewers.... this is practically taking 1 step forward, 3 steps backward | ||
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Skiblet
South Africa206 Posts
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TAMinator
Australia2706 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:56 emythrel wrote: Why is that weird? In the UK premiership football is broadcast live by Sky Sports and then shown in highlights by BBC later that night. Its actually quite common for sports to be broadcast live by one organisation and then rebroadcast by another one.... It's just about the wording here. The term "streaming" is usually meant as "live streaming". | ||
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Jacopana
El Salvador210 Posts
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haitike
Spain2713 Posts
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
I feel that part of the reasons BW was so superior to SC2 on the esports side is because of KeSPA, and I can reasonably say that most English casters have yet to achieve the consistent quality level of Korean casts, so I personally enjoy them more. | ||
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Proseat
Germany5113 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:39 MLG_Adam wrote: Working on it guys. Well, how long have you been doing so through your partnership with KeSPA really? When I read that MLGLee tweet two days ago, I thought to myself, "Why would he tweet that? OGN are already doing it." Random and strange at best. Now suddenly KeSPA boots OGN and their English broadcasting team around DoA that have been preparing for broadcasting Proleague for quite a while now. I hope this wasn't MLG putting that idea in KeSPA's heads to be able to get a piece of the cake. I hope you guys understand that the magic of Proleague is not just the matches, but the studio atmosphere, how the players and teams will react, and so on. Casting from replays hours later just doesn't cut it. If MLG wants to get involved, work with OGN and Team DoA, as they will be able to be present in the studio. That way all their preparation will also not be for naught. | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:57 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's just about the wording here. The term "streaming" is usually meant as "live streaming". Someone hasn't been on the internet very long... | ||
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adriftt
335 Posts
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Mauldo
United States750 Posts
And now I'm supposed to trust that MLG will keep the Proleague stream free. Just like we could trust OGN and Kespa, right? | ||
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RaelSan
Belgium223 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:54 mjuuy wrote: It's ok. Always looking for korean streams for SC2 anyway, so won't effect me.. Cool story bro, too bad he didnt write that only for you though | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:53 emythrel wrote: he literally just explained that tweet and you're doubting him? Why would kespa kick out their long term partner in OGN for MLG? Answer, they wouldn't. hahaha User was warned for this post | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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SorrowShine
698 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:55 redFF wrote: MLG has been in talks with Kespa about this for a while, as the tweet shows. It's clear that they are responsible for this along with Kespa, and are lined up to replace OGN for the English cast. Some of the posts in this thread are shady. You're speaking with certainty about something you have insufficient information about. Your statement contains nothing but a leap of logic founded on a cynical assumption. It's entirely possible that KeSPA told MLG there would be no other English cast, or that MLG's cast would only be on weekdays since there was already an agreement in place with OGN for OGN to only be covering weekends. | ||
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frogrubdown
1266 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:57 DarkLordOlli wrote: It's just about the wording here. The term "streaming" is usually meant as "live streaming". Not in my idiolect. When I want to find a movie or tv show online I do a search with the word 'stream' in it. And it works. No presumption of live content. | ||
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SorrowShine
698 Posts
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VManOfMana
United States764 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:00 Proseat wrote: Well, how long have you been doing so through your partnership with KeSPA really? When I read that MLGLee tweet two days ago, I thought to myself, "Why would he tweet that? OGN are already doing it." Random and strange at best. Now suddenly KeSPA boots OGN and their English broadcasting team around DoA that have been preparing for broadcasting Proleague for quite a while now. I hope this wasn't MLG putting that idea in KeSPA's heads to be able to get a piece of the cake. I hope you guys understand that the magic of Proleague is not just the matches, but the studio atmosphere, how the players and teams will react, and so on. Casting from replays hours later just doesn't cut it. If MLG wants to get involved, work with OGN and Team DoA, as they will be able to be present in the studio. That way all their preparation will also not be for naught. The broadcasts rights of Proleague are owned by KeSPA, not OGN. MLG is doing the right thing. You know what I miss? A TL not ruined by misinformation fueled by rage. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
Personal view: Proleague was one of the biggest BW tournaments. But as far as SC2 goes it doesn't have a history. It hasn't established itself yet. Regardless of its BW history it isn't a "must see" competition for SC2 at present. The current biggest SC2 tournaments are the GSL and GSTL. So their direct competitor is basically the GSTL; and the GSTL is what they are going to be measured against. Compare and contrast...GSTL production quality with how they're approaching Proleague here... If KesPA wants Proleague SC2 to be a success THEY ABSOLUTELY CANNOT AFFORD TO BE DOING THIS KIND OF THING CONSTANTLY. They NEED a English broadcast for the international audience. They NEED to be seen to be putting on a high quality entertainment production. Most importantly they NEED to stop appearing like they're trying to screw people over because it pisses people off. And doing that is going to make people just not bother watching. | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:06 redFF wrote: MLG are going to end up streaming this and be hailed as the saviors of PL english broadcast... IT'S A CONSPIRACY! | ||
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
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Gowa
France133 Posts
and to be honest, I'd rather watch a rebroadcast anyway | ||
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
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Frankon
3054 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:06 redFF wrote: MLG are going to end up streaming this and be hailed as the saviors of PL english broadcast... Doubt it. Since they will just stream it 12h+ after the games were played. They might even revoke the sc2 spoiler rule due to this rebroadcast by MLG. I want my PL fill before i go to work. | ||
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FSKi
United States901 Posts
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nucLeaRTV
Romania822 Posts
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OrD_SC2
United States247 Posts
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:39 MLG_Adam wrote: Working on it guys. So you guys screwed OGN + Doa, + possibly the whole foreign community so that you could get broadcast rights? Is that the implication? MLG | ||
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:22 Oreo7 wrote: So you guys screwed OGN + Doa, + possibly the whole foreign community so that you could get broadcast rights? Is that the implication? MLG How can you jump to that conclusion without evidence? | ||
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Steel
Japan2283 Posts
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DeathSquire36
United States167 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:23 Solarsail wrote: How can you jump to that conclusion without evidence? Welcome to today's Starcraft community. All speculation, no facts, but they're always right. | ||
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ichnaschekot
380 Posts
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phyre112
United States3090 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:11 VManOfMana wrote: The broadcasts rights of Proleague are owned by KeSPA, not OGN. MLG is doing the right thing. You know what I miss? A TL not ruined by misinformation fueled by rage. That was never TL. KeSPA has been hated, pitchfork, torch, boycott and all, for killing eSports since before killing eSports was a thing. I can't remember a time where the majority of TL was in support of Kespa, and I've been hanging around here for ~5 years now. | ||
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Blargh
United States2103 Posts
But the whole scenario sounds very Kespa. I might watch the KR streams if I come across it, but probably won't go out of my way to see any matches now. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:23 Solarsail wrote: How can you jump to that conclusion without evidence? The evidence is right here though. The tweet, the "working on it" and the fact that OGN have been booted from Proleague is all the evidence we need. | ||
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Facimo
Germany14 Posts
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creamyturtle
United States487 Posts
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a9arnn
United States1537 Posts
? | ||
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Hunterai
Thailand842 Posts
To work so hard for you dream and to see it crushed like that due to some stupid corporation bullshit That must be devastating | ||
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Signus
United States269 Posts
If MLG does pick up the English stream, who is going to cast it? They can't just go "Oh, we'll just call up Day9 and Apollo, it'll be fine." Their system is set up for a few big events a year, not a very long tournament that is going to go on for months. | ||
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Penev
28481 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:09 Fenrax wrote: User was temp banned for this post. That was honestly the first thing that popped in my mind. On topic: Kespa still sucks. Of topic again: Is it possible for me to find out why the hell fenrax was banned for this!? | ||
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.ths
United States57 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:28 redFF wrote: The evidence is right here though. The tweet, the "working on it" and the fact that OGN have been booted from Proleague is all the evidence we need. No, moron, it isn't all the evidence we need. Jesus, I hope you are never selected for jury duty. This situation sucks enough without having a bunch of idiot conspiracy theorists mucking up the thread with baseless finger-pointing and blame games. Can you all try to at least do something productive with all that teenage angst? Send KeSPA an e-mail, or something. It might not have any effect, but it sure as hell would be more likely to change things than word-vomit on TL. | ||
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malady
United States600 Posts
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:12 Lightspeaker wrote: Really, really stupid screw up by KesPA here. Personal view: Proleague was one of the biggest BW tournaments. But as far as SC2 goes it doesn't have a history. It hasn't established itself yet. Regardless of its BW history it isn't a "must see" competition for SC2 at present. The current biggest SC2 tournaments are the GSL and GSTL. So their direct competitor is basically the GSTL; and the GSTL is what they are going to be measured against. Compare and contrast...GSTL production quality with how they're approaching Proleague here... If KesPA wants Proleague SC2 to be a success THEY ABSOLUTELY CANNOT AFFORD TO BE DOING THIS KIND OF THING CONSTANTLY. They NEED a English broadcast for the international audience. They NEED to be seen to be putting on a high quality entertainment production. Most importantly they NEED to stop appearing like they're trying to screw people over because it pisses people off. And doing that is going to make people just not bother watching. For anyone who doubts that Proleague could become marginalized in an SC2 world; all you have to do is see how WCG has fallen by the wayside as a major tournament. | ||
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:23 Solarsail wrote: How can you jump to that conclusion without evidence? Dude it's the internet. There's no gravity here. People can jump wherever they want | ||
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Vaftrudner
Sweden1185 Posts
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Dr.Sin
Canada1126 Posts
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Signus
United States269 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:38 Wuster wrote: For anyone who doubts that Proleague could become marginalized in an SC2 world; all you have to do is see how WCG has fallen by the wayside as a major tournament. Most of WCG's laurels rested on the fact that it was the only major BW event for foreigners, bringing in a lot of other games to fill time while the 3 korean representatives battled to see what order they would place on the podium. It was bound to falter once more foreign events started up with SC2, especially once Blizzard stole their only reason for existing. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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CrugerDK
Denmark323 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:38 Al Bundy wrote: Why do MLG have to meddle in this? Stay away from korean eSports, please. Why are some of you people so desperately trying to paint MLG as the bad guys, when they obviously are trying to help out here? | ||
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lemonbone
Hong Kong154 Posts
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TheMute
United States458 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:48 MLG_Adam wrote: I can tell you right now we never caused anyone to get kicked out. This is news to us as well. We wanted to cast Pro League as a rebroadcast in EST prime time hours, we didn't know there would be no English cast. Again, we're working on it now. Rebroadcast in EST prime time hours? My god, this would be fantastically amazing!!! So many '09-'10 nights I would stay up and watch SPL. This would certainly be a dream come true. | ||
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Achaia
United States643 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:38 Al Bundy wrote: Why do MLG have to meddle in this? Stay away from korean eSports, please. MLG and KeSPA have a partnership. I'm not saying that they necessarily had a part in KeSPA booting OGN from the broadcast so MLG could take that portion over but that doesn't mean that wasn't KeSPA's intentions. I have to think that KeSPA knows that they need a way to appeal to the foreign community so I sincerely doubt they would kill their only english broadcast option without a backup plan in mind. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:28 redFF wrote: The evidence is right here though. The tweet, the "working on it" and the fact that OGN have been booted from Proleague is all the evidence we need. Lmao @ your evidence. You take the statement "we're working on it" as evidence that they were already conspiring? Or as evidence that they're covering something up? Um no. Smarten up. | ||
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HooK2000
Germany139 Posts
I honestly dont think that KeSPA is that dumb to ignore the complete western fanbase. | ||
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Signus
United States269 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:44 lemonbone wrote: The only problem is do kespa allow restream. If there is no official english option, they kind of have to to let their event reach the rest of the world. That might be ideal in this situation, as I'm not entirely sure MLG is equipped to handle this on their own. If restreams get shutdown, we can always just watch the korean stream. It's what we did in the past, we'll manage until this is all sorted out next season. | ||
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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HornyHydra
Taiwan222 Posts
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:46 Doodsmack wrote: Lmao @ your evidence. You take the statement "we're working on it" as evidence that they were already conspiring? Or as evidence that they're covering something up? Um no. Smarten up. They've clearly been in talks with Kespa lol... | ||
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Arnstein
Norway3381 Posts
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Garnet
Vietnam9021 Posts
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:50 MLG_Adam wrote: I'm guessing you're not reading what I wrote. We wanted to have nightly content during US prime time hours that leveraged Pro League matches. This is not apples to apples. Its just that they think you lie. Reason + Show Spoiler + MLG & Kespa exclusives deals in the past You comments on the PPV model + your price politics in the past + fake viewer numbers for every event = your word is worth nothing... I personal dont care who streams it tho. + Show Spoiler + I will watch restreams with commentators muted anyway... | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
Really, I don't care who broadcasts it but it's just so much more convenient to let OGN do it's thing with English live and have MLG just rebroadcast for US times. Maybe that was the original intention and things got screwed up in translation or something. Also what dreadful timing, so fucking stupid. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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GeedrAhsc
United States97 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:52 Arnstein wrote: MLG working on it? Great, now we have to pay 100$ to watch. Yea, this is something I'm worried about as well. MLG "working on it" doesn't mean much to me because I always assume they'll go with a PPV model like so much of their other programming. I REALLY, REALLY hope they don't jump on trying to capitalize on this, but I don't really blame them if they go with PPV for the event. | ||
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MrJoKer
France232 Posts
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chaos021
United States258 Posts
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
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eejaydubya
United States36 Posts
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
wish it was bw... but we take what we can get amirite? | ||
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VManOfMana
United States764 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:26 phyre112 wrote: That was never TL. KeSPA has been hated, pitchfork, torch, boycott and all, for killing eSports since before killing eSports was a thing. I can't remember a time where the majority of TL was in support of Kespa, and I've been hanging around here for ~5 years now. Five years ago it was about reading translated Korean netizen reactions and joke about it. TL was about having having fun out of the rage, and certainly was not the source of the rage. | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
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Tobblish
Sweden6404 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:06 Kal_rA wrote: YAYAYAYYAYYAYYYYYYY SAYYLEEE FOR OSL! :D wish it was bw... but we take what we can get amirite? You mean PL? And if this damaged the relations between OGN and KeSPA I wouldn't be surprised if there wont be any more OSL. | ||
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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blackbrrd
Norway477 Posts
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LamaMitHut
Germany187 Posts
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Clarityxo
Scotland174 Posts
Only going to watch the EG-TL games now I guess. Sigh. | ||
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
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Siphyo
Netherlands121 Posts
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
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FakeLife
United States41 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:11 TBone- wrote: This is a blessing in disguise. All of you need to see just how amazing OGN korean commentators are. I don't speak Korean, but I'd rather listen to a good OGN Korean commentator any day over any of the English speaking ones. I like having someone to help me understand what is going on in a Starcraft match, and I care about that more than I care about someone getting me 'hyped' by yelling. (I don't understand Korean. They could be screaming entries out of the phone book for all I know.) Funny thing, when an English commentator yells a lot, people say it sounds fake, that they're annoying, and that they need to shut up. | ||
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Sway.746
United States95 Posts
Time to buy my GSL year-long pass as KeSPA can't be assed not to fuck up proleague or any other OGN league. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:43 MLG_Adam wrote: The problem has always been stream license issues. That is why MvP was PPV. MLG, Kespa, and IEG wanted it to be free. We're working on it now. So Blizz threw the wrench in that? | ||
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3JeanPierre3
Peru43 Posts
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:18 FakeLife wrote: I like having someone to help me understand what is going on in a Starcraft match, and I care about that more than I care about someone getting me 'hyped' by yelling. (I don't understand Korean. They could be screaming entries out of the phone book for all I know.) Funny thing, when an English commentator yells a lot, people say it sounds fake, that they're annoying, and that they need to shut up. Basically this. Well, not entirely. I am mainly grateful for informations about the player and his playstyles, and interpretations of the gameplay in regards to the current metagame. edit: On December 07 2012 00:43 MLG_Adam wrote: The problem has always been stream license issues. That is why MvP was PPV. MLG, Kespa, and IEG wanted it to be free. We're working on it now. So? Just set the price for an entire event so ridiculously low that nobody will decline (assuming they have the means to pay it), like 0,99$ or so. | ||
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zerglingrodeo
United States910 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:11 TBone- wrote: This is a blessing in disguise. All of you need to see just how amazing OGN korean commentators are. I don't speak Korean, but I'd rather listen to a good OGN Korean commentator any day over any of the English speaking ones. I took Doa's claim that "As of right now OGN will not be involved with Proleague at any level for an English broadcast as far as I'm aware" as meaning that we wouldn't even have the OGN Korean commentators. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3110 Posts
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ELA
Denmark4608 Posts
Gogo Sayle! | ||
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:26 Captain Peabody wrote: And people wondered why we didn't like KESPA... cause they don't give you people to hate on while the games are running? :D | ||
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LuckyGnomTV
Russian Federation367 Posts
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FakeLife
United States41 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:24 JustPassingBy wrote: Basically this. Well, not entirely. I am mainly grateful for informations about the player and his playstyles, and interpretations of the gameplay in regards to the current metagame. Well, yes, I consider that relevant and important information to a cast as well. And also something I don't get out of Korean casts because I don't understand a word of it. | ||
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tylerf
739 Posts
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Taipoka
Brazil1224 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:34 tylerf wrote: People want sooooo badly to blame MLG for this. It's pretty funny. People just want to blame. I don´t know if this amount of people crying and screaming, "Ill not pay to view this", are just insane or they don´t have anything else to do. They don´t even read the op, or the posts. Edit: BTW, and problably these are the same guys who bashed OGN to hell in last OSL. | ||
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fenrysk
United States364 Posts
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
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Proseat
Germany5113 Posts
But if you do voice your concerns over this to them, please be civil about it. | ||
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baiesradu
Romania150 Posts
I followed all individual competitions . we'll see what happens , but if i don't like it I will probably not watch it. man, kespa seems to be just a pain in the ass lately. hey seem prepared to rather go down in flames than loose control.. and I was so happy for tl and eg, again fuck. | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:27 Blargh wrote: There is bound to be an english stream. After all, having EG-TL was pretty much solely for getting more viewers (foreign). And if you have foreign viewers, you probably should have a foreign (english) stream for it. But the whole scenario sounds very Kespa. I might watch the KR streams if I come across it, but probably won't go out of my way to see any matches now. Well not really. I mean the EG-TL was because there is no air force ace anymore, and there were only 7 teams. They cant use ESF teams cause ESF and kespa have some sort of agreement I think prohibiting it. Reallly EG-TL was the best alternative. Who were they going to get otherwise? Empire? | ||
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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:45 Megaliskuu wrote: I love the difference in views from people who were here before sc2 and those who came after. Korean commentators are amazing,can't wait! I watched a lot of brood war, and I still watch amateur streams over SC2 pros,... but I still don't speak Korean. I prefer English Casts like I prefer my Anime to be dubbed instead of subbed.. and also cause I have bad tastes. | ||
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Maloreon
United States911 Posts
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Taipoka
Brazil1224 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:52 TheRavensName wrote: Well not really. I mean the EG-TL was because there is no air force ace anymore, and there were only 7 teams. They cant use ESF teams cause ESF and kespa have some sort of agreement I think prohibiting it. Reallly EG-TL was the best alternative. Who were they going to get otherwise? Empire? No please, don´t burst the bubble. All of this was because of the foreign viewers. Those viewers who buy a lot of LG phones and TVs because of IM. Those who only use razer gears and so on. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
Don't like those captain obvious commentators in english, dunno, just don't see the necessity. Maybe that's because I know the game pretty well, so I don't need someone to tell me what's going on in the game. | ||
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Ljas
Finland725 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:41 fenrysk wrote: so... Sayle and Oooophidian.... audio-only casting? dunno if Sayle would be as interested without Brood War, but he was always entertaining to me... Sayle's SC2 casting consists mainly of "Umm, I don't know what to say" and crying about BW. | ||
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:34 tylerf wrote: People want sooooo badly to blame MLG for this. It's pretty funny. I'm trying to wrap my head around MLG's intentions... So originally OGN was supposed to cast this LIVE in English, right? And MLG wanted to RECAST it during prime time with their own crew? I mean, it just seems to me like MLG, being the money grubbing coorporation that they are, was trying to get in on something that didn't really concern them. And if that's true, then simple cause and effect means MLG caused this to happen. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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OblivionMage
Canada377 Posts
KeSPA can stand up to Blizzard in the name of improved eSports, no other company can. They will make Starcraft 2 work as an eSports game, whatever it takes. They won't appeal to Blizzard or to a community to make maps, they'll make ones that deliver quality games themselves. They'll make this shit work. Of course this sucks for DoA, but don't draw a conclusion regarding KeSPA before the entire story is told (for english broadcasting). | ||
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Femari
United States2900 Posts
Why don't we just try and get that english cast? Just tweet KeSPA about how you'd love an english cast and I'm sure if enough of us do it they might cave and get someone casting in english. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:59 Kazeyonoma wrote: remember, this isn't your beloved OGN casters though that you knew of in scbw, those casters also got the big kick in the butt along with DoA, so you're gonna be looking at random casters that IEG picked and will probably while you won't understand them, either be terrible, or just scream the entire time. We have confirmation for this? I thought it was just that OGN would not be doing any English broadcasts, but everything else would still go as planned for OGN. If what you say is true I see OGN potentially dropping sc2 completely to focus on LoL. Why would they run a starleague when they can't broadcast proleague? It's so weird. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:52 DoA wrote: I just got hit with some pretty hard to take news. OnGameNet will not be broadcasting the SK Planet Proleague this season in English. As that sinks in, let me elaborate on exactly why this is and where we're at now. Basically for a while now KeSPA has been preparing their own broadcasting platform (IEG, which is owned by KeSPA) to presumably run events from. KeSPA's had a long history of doing their best to control everything that goes on in Korean esports so it's not shocking that they'd want to get into actually running the broadcasts as well. Proleague in fact is a result of KeSPA threatening to pull their players from both OGN and MBC's individual leagues if they didn't give up their respective team leagues and broadcast Proleague instead. This season KeSPA decided to run their own Proleague broadcast initially on weekdays, while OGN ran the weekend broadcast. As far as I know about a week ago KeSPA approached OGN and told them that they'd be running their own stream simultaneously with OGN's on weekends as well. They'd also be sending a commentator they had picked themselves to tri-cast with Monte Cristo and I. Naturally OGN was upset about this and Monte and I were a bit reluctant to tri-cast with someone we'd never worked with before. OGN went back to have talks yesterday and today with KeSPA and things did not go well. KeSPA has also been approaching english casters about the job, but so far none have accepted that I'm aware of. Not surprising. As of right now OGN will not be involved with Proleague at any level for an English broadcast as far as I'm aware. All the preparation by the staff here over the last few months is now for nothing. Needless to say I'm crushed. I'm enjoying LoL, but I came back to Korea to cast Starcraft 2. We've still got OSL (which OGN owns), but SC2 team leagues are basically my favorite thing in the entire world and now that's gone. So what do we get as fans of Proleague now? I still want to see these matches as much as anyone, but I'm frankly tired of KeSPA's lame ploys to try to keep control over something they never should have been in control if in the first place. For me it certainly sours the mood for what will be an epic first match between KT and EG.TL. I don't have any information about EIG's streams or when the broadcasts will be. If I find out I'll tell people. As hard as all this is to take, I want you guys to be able to watch if you want to. Is there a possibility things might change? Possibly. If KeSPA feels enough pressure they might bend. I'm certainly going to do everything I can. What I'm not going to do is tell you to boycott Proleague. That's your choice and I don't have any business telling you not to watch a game and players that you love because of idiotic corporate politics that you aren't a part of and frankly don't deserve to be hurt by. I feel it's important people know what's going on behind the scenes sometimes, but it's best to focus on the game. That's all I've got for now. If I get any updates I'll pass them on via my twitter. (@ggdoa) Apparently MLG might be involved in some way with an English broadcast per MLG Lee's Twitter? If that's the case then I wish them the best of luck and a great season. Having OGN not involved is incredibly foolish. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:56 shadymmj wrote: Even if I can't understand Korean I've always found that they are competent at directing the camera to where it should be, and do a good job of conveying excitement. I've always watched proleague in korean. Don't like those captain obvious commentators in english, dunno, just don't see the necessity. Maybe that's because I know the game pretty well, so I don't need someone to tell me what's going on in the game. The Korean commentators can be pretty silly. I was watching the map tests the other night and they were screaming their heads off when 3 phoenixes killed an overlord out in the middle of nowhere but hardly made any noise when they swooped in and picked up 6 drone kills. Anyway, I prefer English casting (because I multitask a lot and need the audio to know what is going on when I'm not looking at it), but I'll watch Korean casting too. I'll probably watch less though. | ||
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vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
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styleworks79
United States127 Posts
They will never learn and even though I am Korean, I am fully disappointed at everything they have done for SC and the rest of Esports for that matter. | ||
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styleworks79
United States127 Posts
We will just have to wait and see but to me, it seems highly unlikely that GaeSPA will change their attitude anytime soon. | ||
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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:58 Gentso wrote: I'm trying to wrap my head around MLG's intentions... So originally OGN was supposed to cast this LIVE in English, right? And MLG wanted to RECAST it during prime time with their own crew? I mean, it just seems to me like MLG, being the money grubbing coorporation that they are, was trying to get in on something that didn't really concern them. And if that's true, then simple cause and effect means MLG caused this to happen. No. OGN was only doing the weekend games in English. The other weekday games wouldn't have any English casters. We can assume MLG was looking to get the rights to cast those games. | ||
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FreAk!
Chile49 Posts
Im sorry DoA, I hope you are doing well! | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On December 07 2012 03:02 Dodgin wrote: We have confirmation for this? I thought it was just that OGN would not be doing any English broadcasts, but everything else would still go as planned for OGN. If what you say is true I see OGN potentially dropping sc2 completely to focus on LoL. Why would they run a starleague when they can't broadcast proleague? It's so weird. Ah my mistake, i misread what DoA said about OGN having no involvement at all (with english broadcast). my bad. | ||
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Sway.746
United States95 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:45 Proseat wrote: KeSPA apparently can be contacted: https://twitter.com/official_KeSPA But if you do voice your concerns over this to them, please be civil about it. They don't watch that Twitter account. No tweets since October. They only check this one: https://twitter.com/fakekespa | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18411 Posts
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
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CutieBK
Sweden227 Posts
Shame for all the hard work wasted, DoA. Here's hoping there will come a day when kespa can't just bully everyone into submission! | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
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zyce
United States649 Posts
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Vasoline73
United States7801 Posts
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
On December 07 2012 03:31 zyce wrote: This is upsetting. Does this mean we won't be able to legally watch the Proleague games? We can legally watch them in Korean, can't we? You can't legally restream them with an english commentator, though. | ||
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
On December 07 2012 03:10 Kiyo. wrote: No. OGN was only doing the weekend games in English. The other weekday games wouldn't have any English casters. We can assume MLG was looking to get the rights to cast those games. Either way, it's still MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie. MLG is responsible either implicitly by asking to recast those games or explicity behind doors. | ||
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Vadrigar
Bulgaria2379 Posts
On December 07 2012 02:56 Taipoka wrote: No please, don´t burst the bubble. All of this was because of the foreign viewers. Those viewers who buy a lot of LG phones and TVs because of IM. Those who only use razer gears and so on. Do you think EG-TL participates in Proleague for free? They paid good money (that's why they made a partnership) to take part in it. And of course they want to make a profit by being exposed to their core audience- the foreigners. I doubt that they don't have a mandatory English stream in their contract with Kespa. | ||
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Taipoka
Brazil1224 Posts
On December 07 2012 03:40 Vadrigar wrote: Do you think EG-TL participates in Proleague for free? They paid good money (that's why they made a partnership) to take part in it. And of course they want to make a profit by being exposed to their core audience- the foreigners. I doubt that they don't have a mandatory English stream in their contract with Kespa. Don´t doubt anything dude. Thats your mistake and of a bunch of others. Wait till details are exposed instead of saying what EG/TL thought or KESPA or OGN or anyone else. | ||
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
seriously, idk if I would even watch the english cast, but still, wtf KeSPA | ||
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Hrrrrm
United States2081 Posts
On December 07 2012 03:35 Gentso wrote: Either way, it's still MLG trying to get a piece of OGN's pie. MLG is responsible either implicitly by asking to recast those games or explicity behind doors. Yeah basically Lee's tweet pretty much proves they were trying to move in on Proleague through their Kespa partnership. Without that tweet this whole thing is a surprise. With that tweet you can see there were already talks going on that caused this bullshit. MLG isn't innocent in this scenario. | ||
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Tminus____
249 Posts
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Xpace
United States2209 Posts
2 Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid, two of the most popular foreign teams in Starcraft 2, team up to participate. 3 No English broadcast. Somewhere between those three steps... | ||
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
On December 07 2012 03:54 Xpace wrote: 1 Kespa looking for a foreign team to participate in Proleague. 2 Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid, two of the most popular foreign teams in Starcraft 2, team up to participate. 3 No English broadcast. Somewhere between those three steps... who said no english broadcast ? Just no english by some guys. | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
On December 07 2012 03:55 shid0x wrote: who said no english broadcast ? Just no english by some guys. PPV MLG Basement Restream several hours after the results are released is roughly equivalent to "no english broadcast". =P | ||
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CScythe
Canada810 Posts
On December 07 2012 03:54 Xpace wrote: 1 Kespa looking for a foreign team to participate in Proleague. 2 Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid, two of the most popular foreign teams in Starcraft 2, team up to participate. 3 No English broadcast. Somewhere between those three steps... This, to me, epitomizes the contrivance of Kespa. It isn't just that they pull off unbelievable bullshit; They do so out of spite to the international scene. | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
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ftjust
Sweden43 Posts
Possibly the most stacked sc2 league cant have the worst english casters. i think they are gonna get incontrol and khaldor | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:06 ftjust wrote: makes perfect sense to me why they didnt want onegamenet to cast. Possibly the most stacked sc2 league cant have the worst english casters. i think they are gonna get incontrol and khaldor Khaldor works for GOM. Good luck getting him to work for Kespa. | ||
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rStarLin
Trinidad/Tobago5 Posts
Should EG-TL show solidarity and pull out of the Pro-League? This was the only reason that I was actually going to fully follow the Pro-League this season. | ||
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thatsundowner
Canada312 Posts
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Teodice
Sweden641 Posts
. A loss in viewers for sure! | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
By the way, that comes out as a very biased and loaded OP with a misleading title designed to rile people up for, as of yet, no real reason at all. Real classy. | ||
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emsy1984
Slovakia28 Posts
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Pasargadae
Korea (South)173 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:08 S_SienZ wrote: Khaldor works for GOM. Good luck getting him to work for Kespa. Incontrol....LOL | ||
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Dranak
United States464 Posts
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E025
1 Post
On December 07 2012 04:14 Talin wrote: OGN doesn't have a good English casting pair to begin with, and have failed to solve that issue for a while now. The fact that Kespa was trying to find alternatives to OGN's casters and even bring a new one into OGN's cast indicates they are aware of this. This may end up being better for the foreign audience anyway. By the way, that comes out as a very biased and loaded OP with a misleading title designed to rile people up for, as of yet, no real reason at all. Real classy. Wholeheartedly agree with the above. OP comes off as childish and unprofessional. | ||
Fionn
United States23455 Posts
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HorsemasterK
United States606 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:27 Dranak wrote: Well this is disappointing to say the least. Doesn't make a ton of sense to add a foreign team and then not have an English broadcast for their foreign audience. Sure it does, 5 hour tape delayed MLG PPV basement cast with MonteCristo and Axeltoss inc. | ||
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dudecrush
Canada418 Posts
Why must you screw everyone over all the time? Whoever runs Kespa needs to be sacked, as they are doing a terrible job. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
Does Kespa always does stuff like this on such a short notice? This is the second time that a couple days berfore an event they suddenly change their minds. | ||
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Steelavocado
United States2123 Posts
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LuckyMacro
United States1482 Posts
I always watched BW with the korean casting, even if I couldn't understand it at all. It'll be same old same old for me. I still loved it. And there's was always someone in the stream chat willing to translate some things. | ||
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Kasu
United Kingdom345 Posts
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Jeremy Reimer
Canada968 Posts
To pull this kind of thing with only a couple of days before the start of Proleague is just ridiculous. | ||
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Glioburd
France1911 Posts
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justinpal
United States3810 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:30 E025 wrote: Wholeheartedly agree with the above. OP comes off as childish and unprofessional. It's sensationalist for sure and one-sided and personal. The title is descriptive of the event. | ||
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Jeremy Reimer
Canada968 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:43 MLG_Adam wrote: The problem has always been stream license issues. That is why MvP was PPV. MLG, Kespa, and IEG wanted it to be free. We're working on it now. Okay, I've asked this before, but nobody has ever responded. If MLG, Kespa, and IEG wanted it to be free, WHO DIDN'T??? Who is left? Who else exists that would have stream license rights? OGN? How would OGN have rights to a Kespa-MLG partnership? | ||
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ShadowReaver
Canada563 Posts
MLGLee's tweet before the cancellation of the english broadcast shows that MLG was in discussion with KeSPA prior to this decision. All that's left is to announce MLG picking up the broadcast (and the $$$). Whether they did they do it unethically, behind closed doors or came in to save the day... well it's all in front of you to decide. I know where I stand. | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:38 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Okay, I've asked this before, but nobody has ever responded. If MLG, Kespa, and IEG wanted it to be free, WHO DIDN'T??? Who is left? Who else exists that would have stream license rights? OGN? How would OGN have rights to a Kespa-MLG partnership? My guess is that they can't re-stream OGN's broadcast without their consent. So it's either they pay OGN or they cast from replays. That or Blizzard. But I think the former is more likely. That and OGN is probably not in the mood to give MLG a good deal ATM. On December 07 2012 04:30 Fionn wrote: Mr. Chae continues winning without doing anything. It boggles my mind just how much better than pretty much everything else in SCII GOMTV is. It even makes me forgive them their shit bitrate. Good casters on location, the English stuff produced in parallel with the Korean stuff, the best players in the world, high production value, timely VODs... it's hard to fathom how any other organization can really justify charging for their services, tbh. | ||
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tili
United States1332 Posts
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bduddy
United States1326 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:30 Fionn wrote: And GSTL was in danger of being seriously overshadowed, too. Good to know that KeSPA/OGN can continue to throw away every advantage they have.Mr. Chae continues winning without doing anything. | ||
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Achaia
United States643 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:42 tili wrote: Kespa is the Apple, of Starcraft. Bahahaha I really like this! +1 Anyways, hopefully MLG will bring decent content for cheap/free. Not sure how they'll pull it off though unless they're planning on sending casters to Korea which I suppose is possible. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On December 07 2012 03:58 MCXD wrote: PPV MLG Basement Restream several hours after the results are released is roughly equivalent to "no english broadcast". =P They specifically said they weren't going to do PPV on anything in the foreseeable future without an extremely good reason. Obviously a post-results restream won't be PPV; stop trying to rile people up. | ||
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Boiler Bandsman
United States391 Posts
Look, I respect the history of Brood War and what those players and teams have done for the Starcraft scene, and I respect the tradition of Proleague. But the fact of the matter is that the GSL and the GSTL have the best players right now, and that's why I'll be watching them, in English. | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:47 dcemuser wrote: They specifically said they weren't going to do PPV on anything in the foreseeable future without an extremely good reason. Obviously a post-results restream won't be PPV; stop trying to rile people up. Personally I don't mind PVP. I mind the fact that they will be doing a restream, possibly from replay, and by the sounds of it at least a day after the game is played while OGN was ready to broadcast it live with casters on location. Absolutely nothing MLG has said so far has made me less nervous about what they plan to do. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:39 ShadowReaver wrote: KeSPA wouldn't have booted out OGN's english broadcast without a backup plan. They want foreign viewership, that's why they allow EG-TL to participate in PL in the first place. MLGLee's tweet before the cancellation of the english broadcast shows that MLG was in discussion with KeSPA prior to this decision. All that's left is to announce MLG picking up the broadcast (and the $$$). Whether they did they do it unethically, behind closed doors or came in to save the day... well it's all in front of you to decide. I know where I stand. Yet again people making this bigger than it needs to be. Why do you live in a black-and-white world? What if the truth was actually reasonable and grey: i.e. MLG contacts KeSPA about getting to restream Proleague several days ago and KeSPA decides that they like the offer so much that they don't need OGN at all (since they were already having problems with OGN in the first place). In that scenario (the likely scenario imo based on statements from the OP and from MLG), if MLG had never talked to KeSPA would OGN still get an English cast? Possibly. But intent is important: if MLG did not intend to eliminate OGN from the equation, then it is KeSPA who is truly at "fault". On December 07 2012 04:50 Fischbacher wrote: Personally I don't mind PVP. I mind the fact that they will be doing a restream, possibly from replay, and by the sounds of it at least a day after the game is played while OGN was ready to broadcast it live with casters on location. Absolutely nothing MLG has said so far has made me less nervous about what they plan to do. MLG probably didn't plan on being the sole source of an English proleague cast, and they're only getting a 1-day advance notice of that, so I'm not expecting a lot either. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Where to begin. KeSPA is kiboshing OGN in the same breath. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8304 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:06 ftjust wrote: makes perfect sense to me why they didnt want onegamenet to cast. Possibly the most stacked sc2 league cant have the worst english casters. i think they are gonna get incontrol and khaldor Khaldor's tweets and stuff he wrote on reddit sounds like he won't be casting. Maybe Incontrol but if he has any sense at all he's in honeymoon right now. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:54 TheDougler wrote: Khaldor's tweets and stuff he wrote on reddit sounds like he won't be casting. Maybe Incontrol but if he has any sense at all he's in honeymoon right now. Anna's tweet to Jaedong yesterday suggests that they are in Orlando, FL at Disney World, so yeah, I seriously doubt he could cast it. | ||
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revy
United States1524 Posts
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5502 Posts
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:05 jimminy_kriket wrote: Lets restream the shit out of this. Fuck kespa. I will personally report any pirate stream I see. Don't do this people. | ||
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snafoo
New Zealand1615 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:09 Fyodor wrote: I will personally report any pirate stream I see. Don't do this people. isnt the stream free? if i remember correctly, a lot of people restreamed bw stuff and tl.net didn't care. | ||
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snafoo
New Zealand1615 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:45 bduddy wrote: And GSTL was in danger of being seriously overshadowed, too. Good to know that KeSPA/OGN can continue to throw away every advantage they have. Not really After seeing the games in the SKTT1 vs KT series the other day... The games wern't exactly impressive by any standards... | ||
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:12 dAPhREAk wrote: isnt the stream free? if i remember correctly, a lot of people restreamed bw stuff and tl.net didn't care. Yep. Kespa only had a problem with it when they had an official English stream. | ||
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:04 revy wrote: Sorry to those who were personally involved, and sorry to those who were looking forward to english stream. Myself I've always preferred the Korean stream, something about it just seems right (nostalgia). If this goes really badly there won't even be a Korean (re)stream you can access. | ||
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:12 dAPhREAk wrote: isnt the stream free? if i remember correctly, a lot of people restreamed bw stuff and tl.net didn't care. That's only because the content producers also didn't care (they didn't go after the restreams) and there was no alternative in a lot of cases. If KeSPA goes after the restreams, then I'm almost certain TL.net will cooperate. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On December 07 2012 04:54 TheDougler wrote: Khaldor's tweets and stuff he wrote on reddit sounds like he won't be casting. Maybe Incontrol but if he has any sense at all he's in honeymoon right now. And besides that, they couldn't find a casting booth big enough. | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
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Notfragile
Greece713 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:09 Fyodor wrote: I will personally report any pirate stream I see. Don't do this people. Let's protect KeSPA for all they are doing for SCII. Without them we might be lost, for that evil GomTV is systematically trying to undermine everyone else on the scene. Oh wait... | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:10 snafoo wrote: Wonder if the KeSPa whiteknights will come to defend them in this thread like they did with eSF vs KeSPa.... rofl The veterans, which are very few, know their history man. We know the good, the bad and the ugly. Unfortunately there are a lot of misinformed people and there's no point trying to tie everything together for them. There is no point defending KeSPA in this case. I personally don't care about having an English cast because I listen to the Korean casters. What sucks about this is OGN's role is diminishing and that's bad news for SC2 fans. They have a lot of other games in their pocket at the moment and if they aren't hitting the views for the SC2 material because KeSPA is going ahead with the stream well that role will continue to diminish. The veterans are just as fed up as you guys. On December 07 2012 05:13 snafoo wrote: Not really After seeing the games in the SKTT1 vs KT series the other day... The games wern't exactly impressive by any standards...New maps and yeah it stunk. | ||
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fighter2_40
United States420 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:15 dcemuser wrote: That's only because the content producers also didn't care (they didn't go after the restreams) and there was no alternative in a lot of cases. If KeSPA goes after the restreams, then I'm almost certain TL.net will cooperate. thats how i remember it as well. if they have an english stream, i see no reason to boycott/restream. but if they are going to do a korean only, FREE stream, then i see no problem with people restreaming and talking over the koreans like they did with bw. it will lower the viewer numbers to kespa, but i dont have a problem with that. best case scenario is obviously that kespa gives us an english stream. | ||
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Archile
United States403 Posts
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mrRoflpwn
United States2618 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
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Taipoka
Brazil1224 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:28 mrRoflpwn wrote: What the actual fuck. Why would you bring in a foreign team for the first time THEN ANNOUNCE YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN ENGLISH STREAM! Kespa screwed over OGN and their employees such as Doa and Montecristo. God damn it- what the fuck is up with these Kespa business men. YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN ENGLISH STREAM =/= YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN OGN ENGLISH STREAM No one said itll not have a english stream. It can change but. Wait, am i crazy? maybe i should just jump into the train and go hate hate hate. | ||
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Frankon
3054 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:28 mrRoflpwn wrote: What the actual fuck. Why would you bring in a foreign team for the first time THEN ANNOUNCE YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN ENGLISH STREAM! Kespa screwed over OGN and their employees such as Doa and Montecristo. God damn it- what the fuck is up with these Kespa business men. Someone must have offered them a better deal. Still informing the other partner about it 2 days before the cast is a bit morally controversial. It looks like MLG will pick up it as a later replay restream (Kespa handing out replays.... yeah right) , but that fixes it for americans only. if they did it like before the PL in europe would start at 4-5 in the morning and would finish as most people were getting ready to go to work (good thing to watch while eating breakfast). Now we might get a korean only stream... and then latter at 1-2 oclock in the night a english restream for US by MLG. Hardly good for us. | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:34 Taipoka wrote: YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN ENGLISH STREAM =/= YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN OGN ENGLISH STREAM No one said itll not have a english stream. It can change but. Wait, am i crazy? maybe i should just jump into the train and go hate hate hate. Everything MLG said indicated there will be no English stream and that their re-stream will be either from replay or from the OGN/SPOTV stream (so without the commentators actually on the ground). Considering SPL starts in two days, it's safe to assume we're not getting an English stream. Meanwhile OGN has boots on the ground and was going to do a full English stream with the commentators in the studio. Whatever MLG will do is going to fall short of that, at least unless they are planing to ship people to Korea ASAP. | ||
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cronichazel
United States81 Posts
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Taipoka
Brazil1224 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:36 Fischbacher wrote: Everything MLG said indicated there will be no English stream and that their re-stream will be either from replay or from the OGN/SPOTV stream (so without the commentators actually on the ground). Considering SPL starts in two days, it's safe to assume we're not getting an English stream. Bolded my point. | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
We'll know for sure Saturday. I really hope that tomorrow MLG announces that they have casters and a production crew in Korea ready for the Saturday games and that there will be a high quality English stream. However, I really can't see it happening -_- Like, unless MLG Adam is just trolling everyone, that's not what is happening. And I really doubt DoA and OGNwouldn't know about it if MLG has casters and a production crew that was going to broadcast the SPL games from their studio. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:28 mrRoflpwn wrote: What the actual fuck. Why would you bring in a foreign team for the first time THEN ANNOUNCE YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN ENGLISH STREAM! Kespa screwed over OGN and their employees such as Doa and Montecristo. God damn it- what the fuck is up with these Kespa business men. Where did they announce there will be no english stream? | ||
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Tobblish
Sweden6404 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:39 Fischbacher wrote: We'll know for sure Saturday. I really hope that tomorrow MLG announces that they have casters and a production crew in Korea ready for the Saturday games and that there will be a high quality English stream. However, I really can't see it happening -_- Like, unless MLG Adam is just trolling everyone, that's not what is happening. lol, if we are going to hope for anything it's that OGN will do their English stream as planned and MLG have their US primetime replay/vod stream. | ||
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Taipoka
Brazil1224 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:39 Fischbacher wrote: We'll know for sure Saturday. I really hope that tomorrow MLG announces that they have casters and a production crew in Korea ready for the Saturday games and that there will be a high quality English stream. However, I really can't see it happening -_- Like, unless MLG Adam is just trolling everyone, that's not what is happening. Thats what i was trying to tell to a lot of people here. Wait til saturday. If it dont go well, so we can just explode in rage. | ||
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thatsundowner
Canada312 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:34 Taipoka wrote: YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN ENGLISH STREAM =/= YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN OGN ENGLISH STREAM No one said itll not have a english stream. It can change but. Wait, am i crazy? maybe i should just jump into the train and go hate hate hate. for me anyway, it isn't so much that it happened, it's the timing of it all going down without concrete plans for a replacement | ||
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Michaels
419 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:28 mrRoflpwn wrote: What the actual fuck. Why would you bring in a foreign team for the first time THEN ANNOUNCE YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN ENGLISH STREAM! Kespa screwed over OGN and their employees such as Doa and Montecristo. God damn it- what the fuck is up with these Kespa business men. They didnt announce anything, this thread is just biased OP being childish. | ||
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VManOfMana
United States764 Posts
The new TL, a bit more like Reddit every day. Remember how much OGN got trashed during their OSL broadcasts? And now for some reason they are being pitied so much? I'll ad some speculation of my own: what if all this is a reaction to the negative feedback on OGN and KeSPA thinks it can do a better job via IEG? We still don't know exactly know what KeSPA, IEG and MLG are going to do, so it is fair game to make baseless conclusions up my ass, right? But hey, I guess taking pitchforks and bitch about anything not GOM is a lot easier. | ||
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Yello
Germany7411 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:42 Taipoka wrote: Thats what i was trying to tell to a lot of people here. Wait til saturday. If it dont go well, so we can just explode in rage. No need to explode in rage yet, but being angry at Kespa for telling their business partners that they are no longer allowed to stream Proleague 2 days before the start of Proleague is enough to at least bit slightly annoyed/angry. Also still no public statement by any party is another reason to not be happy with what is happening here. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
I have nothing against Doa and Monte Cristo, but they're definitely not at the level where they should be casting something like Proleague. Especially not this season, after this much hype built around it. | ||
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Dranak
United States464 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:34 Taipoka wrote: YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN ENGLISH STREAM =/= YOU WILL NOT HAVE AN OGN ENGLISH STREAM No one said itll not have a english stream. It can change but. Wait, am i crazy? maybe i should just jump into the train and go hate hate hate. The only confirmed English stream has been cancelled. I'm not saying people should be panicking, but some degree of concern/annoyance seems to be warranted. Maybe something will get pulled together, but unless pieces are already in place in the background, it will be rushed and lower quality than would would be expected for an event like this. | ||
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GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:45 Talin wrote: Also, I see no need for English casters to be in Korea at all. They're not interacting with the live audience, they're not going to do the observing anyway, and there would be a much larger and better selection of possible English commentators (so we would get higher quality content) if they weren't required to be in Korea for the duration of the season. I have nothing against Doa and Monte Cristo, but they're definitely not at the level where they should be casting something like Proleague. think what people mean is that we want to be able to see the stage and all that stuff and not only the games casted xp | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:47 GizmoPT wrote: think what people mean is that we want to be able to see the stage and all that stuff and not only the games casted xp I would imagine people would still be able to see that with Korean streams being restreamed. | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:40 Talin wrote: Where did they announce there will be no english stream? On December 07 2012 04:21 MLG_Adam wrote: Yes the poorly timed tweet (now that this new situation came about). We were hoping to get replays or rebroadcasts to air in prime time (EST) to flesh out our daily content initiative. This is what MLG has said so far, that they are looking at re-streaming or showing the games from replays in EST prime time. It's possible that they are planing something else, but considering that OGN was caught completely by surprise anything that they are planing doesn't involve cooperating with OGN (which means they won't be in studio). | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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Just_a_Moth
Canada1952 Posts
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
This means ogn one is the one forcing kespa not being able to work with each other. Mlg tweets also seem to suggest MLg,kespa and Eg-Tl want free stream. It seems ogn didn’t want to apply to this term. So its basically looks like ogn want to make money and enforce people to pay for the English stream. Also if i am not wrong kespa is built up by different sponsors that like EG and team liquid want exposure. Seeing the bad job OGN did last time when they hade the English stream i don’t se why they should get it again and take money for it that goes to them self and not anyone else. So if OGN dont have the english stream then we get it for free and we will se allot of free events with kespa and other companys. TLDR: Kespa want a free English stream for the foreign viewers and OGN don’t seem to comply with this change and was taken away the license to have the English stream. The reason the mlg event with proleague was a ppv model and not free was because Ogn had the Licen for the English stream. If OGN don’t have the English stream, Kespa is free to work with other companies and stream content for free. How is this a bad thing for us and the sc2 scene ???????????????? | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:50 coasts wrote: Who cares, listening to Korean guys shout, while you have no idea what they are saying, is one of the best parts of Starcaft. ...right. The only time I've enjoyed listening to a Korean caster was listening to Mr. Chae and Machine cast in broken English. Apart from that I really don't like listening to Korean casters. Might as well watch a foreign language movie without subtitles. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:48 Fischbacher wrote: This is what MLG has said so far, that they are looking at re-streaming or showing the games from replays in EST prime time. It's possible that they are planing something else, but considering that OGN was caught completely by surprise anything that they are planing doesn't involve cooperating with OGN (which means they won't be in studio). He said replays or rebroadcasts. Replays would indeed be a terrible choice, but rebroadcasts of Korean streams with English commentary would be the best solution IMO. At least as long as MLG or whoever they get to do it provides adequate casters, which they should be able to if the casters aren't required to fly to Korea. Anyhow, even if there are no english streams for the first round, they will certainly get them running soon enough. Sure it's a fuckup to miss the opening round, but honestly I'd rather miss a week and have some of the higher quality casters MLG has access to, than have the OGN pair cast the entire season. | ||
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
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Tobblish
Sweden6404 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:55 Talin wrote: He said replays or rebroadcasts. Replays would indeed be a terrible choice, but rebroadcasts of Korean streams with English commentary would be the best solution IMO. At least as long as MLG or whoever they get to do it provides adequate casters, which they should be able to if the casters aren't required to fly to Korea. Anyhow, even if there are no english streams for the first round, they will certainly get them running soon enough. Sure it's a fuckup to miss the opening round, but honestly I'd rather miss a week and have some of the higher quality casters MLG has access to, than have the OGN pair cast the entire season. What casters do MLG have "access" to? The only casters that are with MLG are the Axelbros. | ||
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SC2Phoenix
Canada2814 Posts
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mtn
729 Posts
What is wrong with people. Kespa wanted to place FREE ENGLISH STREAM, but OGN wants it to be PAID, just laike OSL!! People read the info... | ||
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bram--1995
Netherlands12 Posts
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:55 Talin wrote: He said replays or rebroadcasts. Replays would indeed be a terrible choice, but rebroadcasts of Korean streams with English commentary would be the best solution IMO. At least as long as MLG or whoever they get to do it provides adequate casters, which they should be able to if the casters aren't required to fly to Korea. Anyhow, even if there are no english streams for the first round, they will certainly get them running soon enough. Sure it's a fuckup to miss the opening round, but honestly I'd rather miss a week and have some of the higher quality casters MLG has access to, than have the OGN pair cast the entire season. It's still disheartening that they will produce a re-stream instead of a full English production like GOM is doing. Clearly KeSPA has more resources than GOM, so why can't they get a decent English production together? Besside, DoA is a good caster. I get not wanting Montecristo since he's a LoL guy but DoA is really good. And no English stream for the first round is a pretty big deal considering OGN was ready to produce one. On December 07 2012 06:00 mtn wrote: KESPA HASNT DONE ANYTHING WRONG!! What is wrong with people. Kespa wanted to place FREE ENGLISH STREAM, but OGN wants it to be PAID, just laike OSL!! People read the info... ...OGN's English stream was going to be free. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:58 Tobblish wrote: What casters do MLG have "access" to? The only casters that are with MLG are the Axelbros. One would hope that they can get some of the people that cast their live events to do it. The level and prestige of competition definitely warrants hiring somebody else to do it, at least on irregular basis. Without the requirement to fly to Korea, at least there's a significantly larger pool of people to choose from, that was my point. | ||
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:50 coasts wrote: Who cares, listening to Korean guys shout, while you have no idea what they are saying, is one of the best parts of Starcaft. But but but but but.... it's kespa! + Show Spoiler + I actually just made this post to point out I think you have a comma splice after who cares (My grammar sucks a lot I just saw it for some reason and smiled :D ) | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:01 Fischbacher wrote: It's still disheartening that they will produce a re-stream instead of a full English production like GOM is doing. I think it would be better off for most people because of the time zones. The hardcore fans will still get up to watch the Korean streams (many would do so anyway), but it makes sense for the English stream to be at a more reasonable time so that most people can catch the actual show rather than have to go through individual game vods. | ||
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:28 redFF wrote: The evidence is right here though. The tweet, the "working on it" and the fact that OGN have been booted from Proleague is all the evidence we need. I agree this is very strange | ||
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
...OGN's English stream was going to be free. If i am not wrong the free stream would be allow quality one and the KEspa wants the high quality stream to be free. also if ogn have the English licen then every other organisation will have to pay a licen fee to have content with the kespa players. This seem to be the reason why the proleuge/mlg was a ppv and not free | ||
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
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PXEnTei
United States209 Posts
Does Torch still work their? | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:07 Anomi wrote: If i am not wrong the free stream would be allow quality one and the KEspa wants the high quality stream to be free. also if ogn have the English licen then every other organisation will have to pay a licen fee to have content with the kespa players. This seem to be the reason why the proleuge/mlg was a ppv and not free 480p free, 720p + VODs for 5.99/month. Way better than "re-streamed whenever from wherever + no livestream". Essentially OGN was going to do the same thing GOM is doing. | ||
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Tobblish
Sweden6404 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:01 Talin wrote: One would hope that they can get some of the people that cast their live events to do it. The level and prestige of competition definitely warrants hiring somebody else to do it, at least on irregular basis. Without the requirement to fly to Korea, at least there's a significantly larger pool of people to choose from, that was my point. That chance is very very very small. First you would need to contract a set of casters for a full year and with it they wouldn't be able to cast other premier events thats on. Don't see it happening with anyone else than the inhouse MLG casters =/ But yeah it's a nice way of thinking of a way to do it. | ||
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Tobblish
Sweden6404 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:09 Fischbacher wrote: 480p free, 720p + VODs for 5.99/month. Way better than "re-streamed whenever from wherever + no livestream". Essentially OGN was going to do the same thing GOM is doing. Only things is that it would only include the weekend OGN stream and their Vods. The weekend Kespa inhouse stream would be without English stream and Vods. (correct) It's offtopic either way but it's crazy to me why this wasn't sorted at least a month in advance >_> | ||
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bduddy
United States1326 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:00 mtn wrote: Can you (and others) stop randomly spouting BS when you have no idea what you're talking about? It feels like 3/4 of the posts in this thread are based on advancing or defending or refuting some random theory or attack with absolutely no evidence behind it, and now people are randomly pitchforking MLG or OGN for absolutely no reason... I'm not saying they're totally blameless or it's all KeSPA's fault, but all we really know is based on one post by one person (not saying Doa is lying, but he could easily be mistaken, have misheard something, whatever) and people are making ridiculous leaps...KESPA HASNT DONE ANYTHING WRONG!! What is wrong with people. Kespa wanted to place FREE ENGLISH STREAM, but OGN wants it to be PAID, just laike OSL!! People read the info... | ||
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:12 bduddy wrote: Can you (and others) stop randomly spouting BS when you have no idea what you're talking about? It feels like 3/4 of the posts in this thread are based on advancing or defending or refuting some random theory or attack with absolutely no evidence behind it, and now people are randomly pitchforking MLG or OGN for absolutely no reason... I'm not saying they're totally blameless or it's all KeSPA's fault, but all we really know is based on one post by one person (not saying Doa is lying, but he could easily be mistaken, have misheard something, whatever) and people are making ridiculous leaps... here is a couple of tweets from mlg on this : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386513 | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:50 coasts wrote: Who cares, listening to Korean guys shout, while you have no idea what they are saying, is one of the best parts of Starcaft. What is wrong with different choices? | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:10 Tobblish wrote: That chance is very very very small. First you would need to contract a set of casters for a full year and with it they wouldn't be able to cast other premier events thats on. Don't see it happening with anyone else than the inhouse MLG casters =/ But yeah it's a nice way of thinking of a way to do it. You wouldn't need to contract people for the full year, it's more of a one-off thing. You could do it the way IPL used to do it for their weekly productions (at least they used to, haven't watched a lot lately) - a lot of the time it's done by inhouse casters, but they rotated in a lot of NA casters, TB has been on, a few progamers have been on, etc. And Proleague is obviously a bigger deal than IPL TAC or FC, so MLG should be aware of the level of production they need to put in. With all the hype around EG/TL, I think they will be. It's quite probable that some of the matches will also be taking place at MLG events (or even DH) as well, so they can get someone like Apollo to cast as well, and so on. At the end of the day, if quality isn't always there, then at least the variety can be. | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:11 Tobblish wrote: Only things is that it would only include the weekend OGN stream and their Vods. The weekend Kespa inhouse stream would be without English stream and Vods. (correct) It's offtopic either way but it's crazy to me why this wasn't sorted at least a month in advance >_> This. Why the fuck doesn't KeSPA have their shit together the day before SPL start? | ||
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
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Tobblish
Sweden6404 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:13 Anomi wrote: here is a couple of tweets from mlg on this : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386513 And what exactly are you trying to say with a comment like that? Nothing in those tweets have anything to do with what ever argument you are trying to make. On December 07 2012 06:13 Talin wrote: You wouldn't need to contract people for the full year, it's more of a one-off thing. You could do it the way IPL used to do it for their weekly productions (at least they used to, haven't watched a lot lately) - a lot of the time it's done by inhouse casters, but they rotated in a lot of NA casters, TB has been on, a few progamers have been on, etc. And Proleague is obviously a bigger deal than IPL TAC or FC, so MLG should be aware of the level of production they need to put in. With all the hype around EG/TL, I think they will be. At the end of the day, if quality isn't always there, then at least the variety can be. Yeah thats true, such a huge mess this... THX KeSPA! | ||
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JuliusMufasa
United States2 Posts
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On December 07 2012 03:53 Tminus____ wrote: o0ooo0o0ophidian we need that casting back even if its on ustream or whatever if twitch is having it and mlg is not having an english stream. say you can <3 How can we not have a good english cast for proleague. Yes, of course. I haven't talked to anyone about doing it officially, but if there isn't an English broadcast, I'll do it. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:52 DoA wrote: I just got hit with some pretty hard to take news. OnGameNet will not be broadcasting the SK Planet Proleague this season in English. As that sinks in, let me elaborate on exactly why this is and where we're at now. Basically for a while now KeSPA has been preparing their own broadcasting platform (IEG, which is owned by KeSPA) to presumably run events from. KeSPA's had a long history of doing their best to control everything that goes on in Korean esports so it's not shocking that they'd want to get into actually running the broadcasts as well. Proleague in fact is a result of KeSPA threatening to pull their players from both OGN and MBC's individual leagues if they didn't give up their respective team leagues and broadcast Proleague instead. This season KeSPA decided to run their own Proleague broadcast initially on weekdays, while OGN ran the weekend broadcast. As far as I know about a week ago KeSPA approached OGN and told them that they'd be running their own stream simultaneously with OGN's on weekends as well. They'd also be sending a commentator they had picked themselves to tri-cast with Monte Cristo and I. Naturally OGN was upset about this and Monte and I were a bit reluctant to tri-cast with someone we'd never worked with before. OGN went back to have talks yesterday and today with KeSPA and things did not go well. KeSPA has also been approaching english casters about the job, but so far none have accepted that I'm aware of. Not surprising. As of right now OGN will not be involved with Proleague at any level for an English broadcast as far as I'm aware. All the preparation by the staff here over the last few months is now for nothing. Needless to say I'm crushed. I'm enjoying LoL, but I came back to Korea to cast Starcraft 2. We've still got OSL (which OGN owns), but SC2 team leagues are basically my favorite thing in the entire world and now that's gone. So what do we get as fans of Proleague now? I still want to see these matches as much as anyone, but I'm frankly tired of KeSPA's lame ploys to try to keep control over something they never should have been in control if in the first place. For me it certainly sours the mood for what will be an epic first match between KT and EG.TL. I don't have any information about EIG's streams or when the broadcasts will be. If I find out I'll tell people. As hard as all this is to take, I want you guys to be able to watch if you want to. Is there a possibility things might change? Possibly. If KeSPA feels enough pressure they might bend. I'm certainly going to do everything I can. What I'm not going to do is tell you to boycott Proleague. That's your choice and I don't have any business telling you not to watch a game and players that you love because of idiotic corporate politics that you aren't a part of and frankly don't deserve to be hurt by. I feel it's important people know what's going on behind the scenes sometimes, but it's best to focus on the game. That's all I've got for now. If I get any updates I'll pass them on via my twitter. (@ggdoa) Apparently MLG might be involved in some way with an English broadcast per MLG Lee's Twitter? If that's the case then I wish them the best of luck and a great season. What happened to SAYLE?! @#$%@ He's the best caster for proleague and doesn't even deserve a mention..... What is going on? | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:26 oOOoOphidian wrote: Yes, of course. I haven't talked to anyone about doing it officially, but if there isn't an English broadcast, I'll do it. Great to hear! | ||
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Tobblish
Sweden6404 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:28 hifriend wrote: I understand why doa would be pissed since he's out of a job but why is everyone else so riled up? :S He isn't out of job, he'll just not cast his biggest dream and reason to go to Korea. OGN still have him as their English LoL caster and he said something that OGN are looking for new SC2 content. | ||
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Talih
Australia52 Posts
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L0L
United States176 Posts
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
And what exactly are you trying to say with a comment like that? Nothing in those tweets have anything to do with what ever argument you are trying to make. Since you said doa post is the only thing we have on the subject i just wanted to show you that statment itself is wrong. What ever those tweet have anything to do with the arguments i make is not the point. Just wanted to give you some more information on the subject that is not only Doas post. | ||
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Kooun
Canada260 Posts
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
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ShivaN
United States933 Posts
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munchmunch
Canada789 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:26 oOOoOphidian wrote: This could actually be good. I like professional English-language commentary over Korean-language commentary, but there was always something special about watching restreams on TL. Yes, of course. I haven't talked to anyone about doing it officially, but if there isn't an English broadcast, I'll do it. | ||
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Hollandrock
United Kingdom158 Posts
I think EG-TL should boycott the competition if this doesn't get sorted... | ||
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mark05
Canada807 Posts
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negativedge
4279 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:30 tokinho wrote: What happened to SAYLE?! @#$%@ He's the best caster for proleague and doesn't even deserve a mention..... What is going on? why is everyone talking about Sayle? he hates sc2. | ||
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Vorenius
Denmark1979 Posts
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Iodem
United States1173 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:26 oOOoOphidian wrote: Yes, of course. I haven't talked to anyone about doing it officially, but if there isn't an English broadcast, I'll do it. with Cresse please :D | ||
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Lovedoll
Japan540 Posts
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CV-Mackh
France102 Posts
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
On December 07 2012 07:11 Elroi wrote: why is everyone talking about Sayle? he hates sc2. He had said he wouldn't necessarily reject an offer to go to Korea and cast for OGN, knowing full well that it would be pure SC2. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On December 07 2012 07:11 Elroi wrote: why is everyone talking about Sayle? he hates sc2. because sc2 is glorious and anyone who thinks broodwar is a better game is a slackjawed yokel | ||
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Laplaces_imp
368 Posts
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
I was really looking forward to hearing you and MonteCristo cast the opening EG-TL vs. KT match. | ||
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IMLyte
Canada714 Posts
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
god damn it kespa why you gotta be such an asshole | ||
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Sacrilege
United States199 Posts
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Zenniv
United States545 Posts
Regardless, this is so messed up and definitely not good for the growth of sc2. | ||
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TheBarcid
Canada44 Posts
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zakmaa
Canada525 Posts
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bduddy
United States1326 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:28 hifriend wrote: Because... people would like Proleague casted in English? Is it really that hard to understand?I understand why doa would be pissed since he's out of a job but why is everyone else so riled up? :S | ||
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Prplppleatr
United States1518 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
it says "no ogn's english cast", not "no english cast". it seems mlg will be casting the english. 99% there will be english cast, just not from ogn. people are sure good at making drama out of nothing. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On December 07 2012 07:57 jinorazi wrote: i dont get it, when did sc2 people start loving ogn so much? it says no ogn's english cast, not no english cast. it seems mlg will be casting the english. If MLG can deliver a broadcast that is not just them casting replays the day after the matches air from their studio with no player/venue/crowd shots I'm sure most people will be fine with that. The problem is the timing, Proleague starts tomorrow and nothing seems to be certain. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On December 07 2012 07:59 Dodgin wrote: If MLG can deliver a broadcast that is not just them casting replays the day after the matches air from their studio with no player/venue/crowd shots I'm sure most people will be fine with that. The problem is the timing, Proleague starts tomorrow and nothing seems to be certain. i say dont be too spoiled...where's the love that kept tlnet going for the decade despite no official english casting. there will be tl members, sayle for example, that can cast the games for us, as they have for the past 10 years. and whats the harm in listening to the korean casters once in awhile, like good o' days ^_^ | ||
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Netsky
Australia1155 Posts
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
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Wolfswood
United States349 Posts
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:01 jinorazi wrote: i say dont be too spoiled...where's the love that kept tlnet going for the decade despite no official english casting. there will be tl members, sayle for example, that can cast the games for us, as they have for the past 10 years. and whats the harm in listening to the korean casters once in awhile, like good o' days ^_^ that love is gone. together with BW. | ||
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
way to burst my bubble | ||
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Just_a_Moth
Canada1952 Posts
Nothing, but it just doesn't bother me that there is no english stream. | ||
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Silentness
United States2821 Posts
GEE GEE!!!!! I didn't know wtf was going on, but the energy was definitely high watching Korean casting. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On December 07 2012 07:56 bduddy wrote: Because... people would like Proleague casted in English? Is it really that hard to understand? Sure but why does it have to be OGN casters specifically? | ||
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tubs
764 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:01 jinorazi wrote: i say dont be too spoiled...where's the love that kept tlnet going for the decade despite no official english casting. there will be tl members, sayle for example, that can cast the games for us, as they have for the past 10 years. and whats the harm in listening to the korean casters once in awhile, like good o' days ^_^ problem is that standards have changed. gom set an incredibly high bar with tastosis and their production value. for new "people" to come in now and say they are reverting back to what was acceptable in sc:bw is a slap in the face. everyone has high expectations for the proleague and, unfortunately, lack of an english stream is just going to set them back. with so many options, people wont choose proleague to watch. of course, as long as kespa keeps a monopoly on the sc:bw greats, we dont have a choice, so at least they have that going for them. | ||
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isaachukfan
Canada785 Posts
.., but Korean broadcasts are really awesome because of how excited they get and just because of the way Korean rolls of the tounge! Also, added incentive for me to learn Korean! | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:16 tubs wrote: Kespa always finds new ways of making me hate them even more. LOL the irony XD "people always find new ways of making them hate kespa even more" | ||
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RiceAgainst
United States1849 Posts
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et
Switzerland367 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:16 hifriend wrote: Sure but why does it have to be OGN casters specifically? Because there is a huge difference between casters at the venue and casters in some studio somewhere in the world. | ||
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
And it got replaced with a state where foreigner teams and tournaments actually matter and so do the interests of foreign fans. AKA this whole "expanding eSports" thing. But sure, let's go back to the old days where only Korea matters. TL won't have a team.There won't be MLG or Dreamhack. There'll be no Tastosis casting Code S. | ||
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sushiman
Sweden2691 Posts
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:20 Broodwurst wrote: And it got replaced with a state where foreigner teams and tournaments actually matter and so do the interests of foreign fans. AKA this whole "expanding eSports" thing. But sure, let's go back to the old days where only Korea matters. TL won't have a team.There won't be MLG or Dreamhack. There'll be no Tastosis casting Code S. it got replaced with people caring about shitty players just because they are not korean. yes. oh and cause Sc2 doesn't matter in korea. ofc~ | ||
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MIKster
Germany333 Posts
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thekaas
Denmark235 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:20 Broodwurst wrote: And it got replaced with a state where foreigner teams and tournaments actually matter and so do the interests of foreign fans. AKA this whole "expanding eSports" thing. But sure, let's go back to the old days where only Korea matters. TL won't have a team.There won't be MLG or Dreamhack. There'll be no Tastosis casting Code S. Your logical fallacy is: A Strawman! No one actually want what you just described (nor did they say so). | ||
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:22 rasers wrote: it got replaced with people caring about shitty players just because they are not korean. yes. oh and cause Sc2 doesn't matter in korea. ofc~ Make more sense please. | ||
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:24 thekaas wrote: Your logical fallacy is: A Strawman! No one actually want what you just described (nor did they say so). No it isn't because a bigger audience (aka the "not-so-hardcore") goes hand in hand with easy access. Broodwar had a hardcore foreign audience, which was rather small. Now you have a big audience but it's less hardcore. The bigger audience makes everything in foreign SC2 possible (Teams, sponsorship, etc.) which wasn't there in BW. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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VManOfMana
United States764 Posts
He actually is making sense. The "FOR ESPORTS" hive mentality has taken over the appreciation of watching Starcraft played at the highest possible level. The respect for the Korean scene was because they were the ones to make it happen, not because they are Korean. And Blizzard and GOM have been very good at manipulating this sentiment to their favor. No matter how inept they are at designing and balancing SC2, they just meed more time. It's okay if Blizzard/GOM were in cahoots to control the Korean scene, because FOR ESPORTS! Yet we still don't know what KeSPA/IEM/MLG are going to do, but we already got all this rage and pitchforks. God forbid thinking that maybe they want to provide a better product than OGN, which not too log ago chastised by this very same community. Edit: correction | ||
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Elitios
France164 Posts
Sad news DoA, hope you will find a way to be compensated. | ||
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:48 Elitios wrote: Someone will have to explain to me how can they still behave like this in the sc2 world where they don't have a monopoly on neither the players nor the tourneys. Sad news DoA, hope you will find a way to be compensated. They have the players. | ||
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:40 VManOfMana wrote: He actually is making sense. The "FOR ESPORTS" hive mentality has taken over the appreciation of watching Starcraft played at the highest possible level. The respect for the Korean scene was because they were the ones to make it happen, not because they are Korean. And Blizzard and GOM have been very good at manipulating this sentiment to their favor. We still don't know what KeSPA/IEM/MLG are going to do, but we already got all this rage and pitchforks. God forbid thinking that maybe they want to provide a better product than GOM, which not too log ago chastised for not pandering as well as GOM. 1. If everyone only cared about the highest level of play 99% of teams wouldn't have an audience, This would instantly kill any sport. ("kill" as in = only a small hardcore audience watching. If you want that say so.) 2. What has GOM to do with any of this? | ||
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MarcusWC
Canada55 Posts
I'm sorry for Doa and all the people that worked hard until now just to be told to go home. I'm upset and I want to know more of what's going on. I want to watch but I won't watch the korean stream, I think. | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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Shinta)
United States1716 Posts
Letting OGN down when they are trying to show the world they aren't terrible makes me not want to support proleague. Letting MLG stream it is ridiculous enough as an idea, MLG is a tournament, ProLeague is a tournament, why is one tournament casting another tournament? Why isn't a broadcasting company casting it? If KeSPA is going to shorthand OGN, they should already have English casters on board, or say "fuck you international scene" and cast Korean only. There is no reason to get MLG involved, they have no part in this shit. If they stream only Korean, I might watch some matches, though I'll never stay up to watch. If OGN did English streams, I would stay up to watch them. If MLG does English casts it won't make any sense, and will just be blatant corporate bullshit. If Axeltoss casts the English casts, I'll never watch them because I hate his casting personality. I feel like if I knew him irl I would dislike and make sure to avoid him, so that makes those streams too hard to watch. Everything about this last minute situation is completely negative without an ounce of positivity -_- So much for all the hype ProLeague was working on... | ||
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Deathmanbob
United States2356 Posts
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Taipoka
Brazil1224 Posts
On December 07 2012 09:10 Shinta) wrote: If MLG is the one doing the English streams and they send out Axeltoss, there is no way I'm watching pro league. Letting OGN down when they are trying to show the world they aren't terrible makes me not want to support proleague. Letting MLG stream it is ridiculous enough as an idea, MLG is a tournament, ProLeague is a tournament, why is one tournament casting another tournament? Why isn't a broadcasting company casting it? If KeSPA is going to shorthand OGN, they should already have English casters on board, or say "fuck you international scene" and cast Korean only. There is no reason to get MLG involved, they have no part in this shit. If they stream only Korean, I might watch some matches, though I'll never stay up to watch. If OGN did English streams, I would stay up to watch them. If MLG does English casts it won't make any sense, and will just be blatant corporate bullshit. If Axeltoss casts the English casts, I'll never watch them because I hate his casting personality. I feel like if I knew him irl I would dislike and make sure to avoid him, so that makes those streams too hard to watch. Everything about this last minute situation is completely negative without an ounce of positivity -_- So much for all the hype ProLeague was working on... Just to correct you about "MLG is a tournament" About MLG | ||
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Hrrrrm
United States2081 Posts
On December 07 2012 09:06 iamho wrote: Seems like OGN was the one who decided to cancel the English casts, amazing how quickly everyone jumps to hate on KeSPA. Do you think OGN isn't losing money by pulling this move last minute? Like DoA said, they had been preparing for a couple of months for this. You think they pull the plug on a whim? Kespa must've approached them with something that OGN felt completely disrespected about or that they felt wouldn't of gained them anything so they said fuck it, we won't do it. | ||
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Shinta)
United States1716 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:40 VManOfMana wrote: He actually is making sense. The "FOR ESPORTS" hive mentality has taken over the appreciation of watching Starcraft played at the highest possible level. The respect for the Korean scene was because they were the ones to make it happen, not because they are Korean. And Blizzard and GOM have been very good at manipulating this sentiment to their favor. No matter how inept they are at designing and balancing SC2, they just meed more time. It's okay if Blizzard/GOM were in cahoots to control the Korean scene, because FOR ESPORTS! Yet we still don't know what KeSPA/IEM/MLG are going to do, but we already got all this rage and pitchforks. God forbid thinking that maybe they want to provide a better product than GOM, which not too log ago chastised by this very same community. I can't agree with you at all... As for all sports, people like to watch how well their country can compete against the world. They want to watch their friends, their local players, their countrymen, and their favorite players compete. The world we live in today is starting to accept eSports, if you only watch Korean eSports then you're assisting in the degration of eSports. You're going to greatly lessen the fan base as well as the potential of success of the game. People are angry because KeSPA is doing stupid shit over and over again. It's not like this is the first act that's been hated by the community. Your second paragraph there can't even be taken seriously as its so bogus. Yeah KeSPA/IEM/MLG made a partnership, but even still, if you completely monopolize ProLeague to where broadcast networks like OGN can't take part, you're hurting eSports, regardless of whether or not they get their partners to stream it for a cheaper price. You're making sure that a major broadcast network does not take part in broadcasting your league, when you should instead be asking then to broadcast it for you. You want more people to watch, in all scenarios. You don't want for some people to not watch, which is what the result of KeSPA's actions is going to be. If they want to make a better league, go for it, they were on the right track until this happened and flung themselves back to a negative reputation. Blizzard partnered with GOM because they were the leaders, and they didn't pull a bunch of bullshit like KeSPA did. They didn't partner with them to monopolize the game, it was so eSports could have a better future under a better organization. But don't start thinking that blizzard doesn't care about MLG or other tournaments. Blizzard could choose to not sanction those tournaments if they start doing stupid monopolizing moves like this, or do something else that's not intended to better the game. There is no reason at all to include blizzard or GOM in this thread. This is about KeSPA throwing out OGN, just like they threw out GOM in the past. Am I right? | ||
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CloudMage
Canada221 Posts
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thekaas
Denmark235 Posts
On December 07 2012 08:29 Broodwurst wrote: No it isn't because a bigger audience (aka the "not-so-hardcore") goes hand in hand with easy access. Broodwar had a hardcore foreign audience, which was rather small. Now you have a big audience but it's less hardcore. The bigger audience makes everything in foreign SC2 possible (Teams, sponsorship, etc.) which wasn't there in BW. Again, no one ever said the opposite was true. They were simply saying, that in the event that we CAN'T get an English stream, should that really prevent us from still watch the Proleague, when it hasn't held us back previously? | ||
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xwoGworwaTsx
United States984 Posts
But I understand it from a business point of view. | ||
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Elitios
France164 Posts
On December 07 2012 09:33 thekaas wrote: Again, no one ever said the opposite was true. They were simply saying, that in the event that we CAN'T get an English stream, should that really prevent us from still watch the Proleague, when it hasn't held us back previously? As someone who wasn't there during the "good old BW days", I did not get into sc2 by watching korean streams. I don't speak korean, and I enjoy a good cast almost as much as a good game, so If it's a korean only stream, I simply won't watch. I won't speak for the others, but I believe I'm not the only one in that situation. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7306 Posts
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Shinta)
United States1716 Posts
What? All that that says is that they provide content (it's all MLG tournament content), and host tournaments (host tournaments). They have the pro circuit as well as other tournaments, and they provide coverage of them. That's what any and every tournament organization that has streaming capabilities does. In other words, MLG is just a tournament. Smaller MLG tournaments are MLG tournaments, bigger MLG tournaments are MLG tournaments, and MLG coverage consists of MLG tournaments. They are not a broadcasting company, whom you normally entrust important broadcasting rights to. I could host a tournament or league with a caster and be everything that MLG is except worse. That's no reason to give me rights to broadcast other tournaments (unless the tournament provider doesn't have enough money to entrust the broadcasting rights with a suitable company, or provide their own broadcasts). Although they have a partnership, and although some IEM casters cast other invents such as IPL MLG etc, you're not going to see an official IEM stream of MLG tournaments. That doesn't happen, and won't happen, but that's what they are discussing with MLG/ProLeague. | ||
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
On December 07 2012 09:40 Elitios wrote: As someone who wasn't there during the "good old BW days", I did not get into sc2 by watching korean streams. I don't speak korean, and I enjoy a good cast almost as much as a good game, so If it's a korean only stream, I simply won't watch. I won't speak for the others, but I believe I'm not the only one in that situation. can't see whats going on yourself? | ||
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Taipoka
Brazil1224 Posts
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Drock
United States305 Posts
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Quasimoto3000
United States471 Posts
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KissMeRed
United States96 Posts
On December 07 2012 09:56 Quasimoto3000 wrote: Where is sayle!! I would prefer Sayle's commentary over any other English caster. | ||
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IcedBacon
Canada906 Posts
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
On December 07 2012 09:56 Quasimoto3000 wrote: Where is sayle!! I believe Sayle said he wouldn't want to cast SC2 since its kinda boring. Who knows, maybe we will get lucky. | ||
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MatiaasS !
Chile167 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
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Netsky
Australia1155 Posts
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Whitley
United States238 Posts
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PureLuckz
United States137 Posts
SC2's numbers are dwindling and some organizations are basically at each others throats. How is a fan supposed to be optimistic about the game's future when you have an organization like KESPA cock blocking everyone? | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
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i.of.the.storm
United States795 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:59 aristarchus wrote: Does no one in Korea sign contracts? Why didn't OGN have exclusive rights to English broadcasting on paper? Quoted from the first page for truth, this is just absurd. And I thought OGN was a member of KeSPA? | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
I get how the business world works and how decisions are made that might not be popular or that companies don't have to work together and get along but this just doesn't add up from a financial standpoint if I'm understanding everything correctly. I get acting irrational if it means making MORE money, but don't when it means less. | ||
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Node
United States2159 Posts
This season KeSPA decided to run their own Proleague broadcast initially on weekdays, while OGN ran the weekend broadcast. As far as I know about a week ago KeSPA approached OGN and told them that they'd be running their own stream simultaneously with OGN's on weekends as well. Man, that is such a dick move. I guess KeSPA never changes. | ||
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Kamikiri
United States1319 Posts
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SCMethod
United States40 Posts
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
Kespa is the fail. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
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Laneir
United States1160 Posts
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Nosferatos
Norway783 Posts
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VManOfMana
United States764 Posts
On December 07 2012 09:29 Shinta) wrote: I can't agree with you at all... As for all sports, people like to watch how well their country can compete against the world. They want to watch their friends, their local players, their countrymen, and their favorite players compete. The world we live in today is starting to accept eSports, if you only watch Korean eSports then you're assisting in the degration of eSports. You're going to greatly lessen the fan base as well as the potential of success of the game. People are angry because KeSPA is doing stupid shit over and over again. It's not like this is the first act that's been hated by the community. Your second paragraph there can't even be taken seriously as its so bogus. Yeah KeSPA/IEM/MLG made a partnership, but even still, if you completely monopolize ProLeague to where broadcast networks like OGN can't take part, you're hurting eSports, regardless of whether or not they get their partners to stream it for a cheaper price. You're making sure that a major broadcast network does not take part in broadcasting your league, when you should instead be asking then to broadcast it for you. You want more people to watch, in all scenarios. You don't want for some people to not watch, which is what the result of KeSPA's actions is going to be. If they want to make a better league, go for it, they were on the right track until this happened and flung themselves back to a negative reputation. Blizzard partnered with GOM because they were the leaders, and they didn't pull a bunch of bullshit like KeSPA did. They didn't partner with them to monopolize the game, it was so eSports could have a better future under a better organization. But don't start thinking that blizzard doesn't care about MLG or other tournaments. Blizzard could choose to not sanction those tournaments if they start doing stupid monopolizing moves like this, or do something else that's not intended to better the game. There is no reason at all to include blizzard or GOM in this thread. This is about KeSPA throwing out OGN, just like they threw out GOM in the past. Am I right? First, a correction. See bolded in my quoted text. Also corrected in my original post. Second, my post is more on how I feel the community has changed for the worst: fast to react in the worst possible way, easy to manipulate in the name of ESPORTS, and blatant use of double standards. I am not defending KeSPA's actions. Frankly, I don't like the idea of KeSPA getting into conflict with one of their major partners. However, I do not use "OGN is pulling off their English Proleague bradcast" to speculate that "there will be no English proleague broadcast" nor "KeSPA is denying OGN rights to broadcast Proleague", nor "all this is a backstab to give MLG monopoly over the English broadcast." So as of now I simply am on "wait and see". KeSPA might broadcast in English via IEM or MLG, or maybe won't. But whatever happens won't stop me from watching Proleague, either in English, Korean, or some rebroadcast with fan-made commentary, just like I have done it for years. I watch Starcraft for what it is: a game that is played competitively, and it happens the highest level is in Korea. Everything else is a perk, but it is not why I watch Starcraft; I don't watch Starcraft for the sake of ESPORTS. As of the rest of your post: I don't see in black and white. KeSPA might be overprotective and manipulative over the rights of their teams, players and leagues, but they don't claim ownership of everything Starcraft. On the other hand I do have a big problem with Blizzard trying to control competitive Starcraft and GOM trying to monopolize broadcasting rights via Blizzard. But we can leave that for another thread. | ||
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dragoon
United States695 Posts
regardless i dont really mind. prefer the korean casts most of the time anyways. | ||
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MysticaL
Canada118 Posts
But then again, I think I'll stick around for EGTL vs KT LOL | ||
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MiniTuk
Sweden9 Posts
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mhael
United States102 Posts
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fuzzylogic44
Canada2633 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Allonsy
Korea (South)32 Posts
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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jazzyjazz
941 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:26 oOOoOphidian wrote: Yes, of course. I haven't talked to anyone about doing it officially, but if there isn't an English broadcast, I'll do it. Yo, you're a balla | ||
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n3f
Canada46 Posts
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:52 DoA wrote: Taking this down at the request of IEG and OGN. Sorry to TL for the hassle. More meetings are happening now today after the responses from everyone. I'll update when I can. Apologies again for the confusion. You'll get to see the match tomorrow. You've got my word on that. Thank you for that! imo the best solution would be OGN doing the weekends and MLG weekdays. Let's see what happens though. | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:13 Ammanas wrote: Thank you for that! imo the best solution would be OGN doing the weekends and MLG weekdays. Let's see what happens though. I feel like KeSPA just doesnt trust OGN anymore to do stream after how aweful the OSL was and honestly I cant really fault them for that. | ||
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Nakwa
Sweden93 Posts
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Laryleprakon
New Zealand9496 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 07 2012 15:25 Adreme wrote: I feel like KeSPA just doesnt trust OGN anymore to do stream after how aweful the OSL was and honestly I cant really fault them for that. They should have thought about that ages ago tough, not 2days before the event. This is my biggest issue with this whole mess, this the second time they randomly cancel something a couple days before the event. Is that standard Kespa practice? Not been here before SC2 so i dunno. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:52 DoA wrote: Taking this down at the request of IEG and OGN. Sorry to TL for the hassle. More meetings are happening now today after the responses from everyone. I'll update when I can. Apologies again for the confusion. You'll get to see the match tomorrow. You've got my word on that. thats the risk for being the informer of the foreign community plz keep doing it ! | ||
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MichaelDonovan
United States1453 Posts
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IcedBacon
Canada906 Posts
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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Dougalis
Great Britain59 Posts
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On December 07 2012 17:28 CoR wrote: thats the risk for being the informer of the foreign community plz keep doing it ! You asked him to put his own job on the line so that you can be informed. Just saying. And there will be English broadcast. Just not OGN broadcast. | ||
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
..... | ||
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Elanshin
Australia216 Posts
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NMxSardines
77 Posts
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JohnHarr
United States375 Posts
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
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darkyaourt
France28 Posts
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
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Thrill
2599 Posts
Sigh. | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
On December 08 2012 12:45 Thrill wrote: I don't see how any company can have any faith in DoA as a professional after this debacle. We understand it's your dream job and you saw it slipping through your fingers and had a knee jerk reaction, but dude - it's your dream job yet you haven't even been bothered to prepare a file with head shots of the progamers complete with name tags or better yet - learned the names instead of writing this bullshit panic post. Sigh. there's a translation barrier that's most likely responsible for this | ||
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Scrubby-onE
Canada42 Posts
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BreakeR.
Austria220 Posts
On December 08 2012 21:15 Scrubby-onE wrote: Hopefully they'll get GOOD casters to cast OGN. Do we really need so start this "discussion" again? It's so annoying. | ||
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Tabashi
Belgium129 Posts
On December 08 2012 21:15 Scrubby-onE wrote: Hopefully they'll get GOOD casters to cast OGN. You have 24 posts on your account... Are they all as bad as this one? DoA is a good caster and no one is forcing you to watch it in English. I saw DoA when he started at GOM and THAT was bad. He improved a lot since and I'm sure he's gonna get even better as time goes on. Just give him a chance to do so. | ||
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NewEyes
Germany113 Posts
I ve particularly never liked DoA but he improved a lot, really looking forward to tomorrow! | ||
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cresse
United States59 Posts
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yeaitooted
United States51 Posts
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Zrana
United Kingdom698 Posts
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F0rlorn
Canada74 Posts
On December 09 2012 08:25 Zrana wrote: crap i must have missed this, are there vods anywhere for eg-tl vs KT? There are english ones on the twitch channel (sc2proleague) and korean ones on the esportstv youtube. | ||
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Zrana
United Kingdom698 Posts
On December 09 2012 08:30 F0rlorn wrote: There are english ones on the twitch channel (sc2proleague) and korean ones on the esportstv youtube. thank you so much | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On December 09 2012 01:03 NewEyes wrote: Big Shoutout to DoA and MonteChristo for that cast it was really really good! I ve particularly never liked DoA but he improved a lot, really looking forward to tomorrow! Yeah. I'm enjoying them a lot. Sad to see them not casting anymore . | ||
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Invol2ver
United States330 Posts
On December 09 2012 18:13 Goldfish wrote: Yeah. I'm enjoying them a lot. Sad to see them not casting anymore .Is there any news as to why they won't be casting anymore and if there will be other casters taking their place? I can't find anything anywhere... | ||
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