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On November 12 2012 10:43 Proziam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 09:16 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On November 12 2012 06:49 Everize wrote:
The team released the players because of lack of funds, they let Kitty and Kane stay because they were two of the cheapest as well as least-paid players. There is no other reason for it, team picked up every game team possible as far as I know. Including Call of Duty, Dota 2, League of Legends and planning on picking up even a Halo team, team lacks any sponsors what so ever and is supported by Owner's wealthy parents.Team does not even have a website yet.
Starcraft 2 manager of the team was also released and replaced by somebody else. None of the players on Pulse except Desrow were fulltime sc2 player, people have to realize that, all of us go to college as full time students at Universities, Kane beats top players on ladder, desrow streams a lot, I got to finals of IEM Qualifier beating many top players that are full time pro gamers in this game. Ladder warriors much?
Once again, Team did not cut roster for the lack of performance yet funds. Hope it explains a lot.
-> This is my personal opinion based on what I know/been told <- Best of luck to Pulse, Kitty and Kane. Feels like this post from Everize deserves attention as his personal knowledge is infinitely better than our baseless speculation. Seems this team is not built on solid fundamental financing...Anyone remember Lazarus Gaming and what happened when their wealthy early 20s owner stopped caring about having a team? I have watched the LoL pulse team, they are pretty good but not yet top 5 in NA. They have been doing well in the online Solomid tourneys, almost winning a few weeks ago I think? Our players aren't privy to any financial information with the exception of Rekinn who is doubling as staff. It is true that the two players we retained were our least paid, but they were also the players the sponsors were least concerned about. On that point I will explain a bit further so people can get a firmer understanding of how this works. We have a strong LoL and Dota team, which is a huge draw for our sponsors. Our Sc2 players had a much smaller following in total, whilst also having much more freedom contractually speaking. Because of this, the sponsor decided it was a hard sell and reduced their offer significantly. Because of this, we decided that it was best to focus on our other ventures first, and then expand back into Starcraft II once we had a more stable relationship. In general it comes down to a risk reward analysis when dealing with sponsors and our Starcraft team was considered too large a risk for them to want to commit.
All this talk about sponsors yet you haven't listed any sponsors anywhere. So then we are to assume either there are none (private sponsor as Everize eluded), or talks are not finalized? In which case, why the f* would you recruit SC2 players and promise them things (contract them) that you couldn't offer them. That's why you guys are a joke organization. Sorry no sympathy from me.
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On November 12 2012 11:08 KoDo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 10:43 Proziam wrote:On November 12 2012 09:16 GhoSt[shield] wrote:On November 12 2012 06:49 Everize wrote:
The team released the players because of lack of funds, they let Kitty and Kane stay because they were two of the cheapest as well as least-paid players. There is no other reason for it, team picked up every game team possible as far as I know. Including Call of Duty, Dota 2, League of Legends and planning on picking up even a Halo team, team lacks any sponsors what so ever and is supported by Owner's wealthy parents.Team does not even have a website yet.
Starcraft 2 manager of the team was also released and replaced by somebody else. None of the players on Pulse except Desrow were fulltime sc2 player, people have to realize that, all of us go to college as full time students at Universities, Kane beats top players on ladder, desrow streams a lot, I got to finals of IEM Qualifier beating many top players that are full time pro gamers in this game. Ladder warriors much?
Once again, Team did not cut roster for the lack of performance yet funds. Hope it explains a lot.
-> This is my personal opinion based on what I know/been told <- Best of luck to Pulse, Kitty and Kane. Feels like this post from Everize deserves attention as his personal knowledge is infinitely better than our baseless speculation. Seems this team is not built on solid fundamental financing...Anyone remember Lazarus Gaming and what happened when their wealthy early 20s owner stopped caring about having a team? I have watched the LoL pulse team, they are pretty good but not yet top 5 in NA. They have been doing well in the online Solomid tourneys, almost winning a few weeks ago I think? Our players aren't privy to any financial information with the exception of Rekinn who is doubling as staff. It is true that the two players we retained were our least paid, but they were also the players the sponsors were least concerned about. On that point I will explain a bit further so people can get a firmer understanding of how this works. We have a strong LoL and Dota team, which is a huge draw for our sponsors. Our Sc2 players had a much smaller following in total, whilst also having much more freedom contractually speaking. Because of this, the sponsor decided it was a hard sell and reduced their offer significantly. Because of this, we decided that it was best to focus on our other ventures first, and then expand back into Starcraft II once we had a more stable relationship. In general it comes down to a risk reward analysis when dealing with sponsors and our Starcraft team was considered too large a risk for them to want to commit. All this talk about sponsors yet you haven't listed any sponsors anywhere. So then we are to assume either there are none (private sponsor as Everize eluded), or talks are not finalized? In which case, why the f* would you recruit SC2 players and promise them things (contract them) that you couldn't offer them. That's why you guys are a joke organization. Sorry no sympathy from me.
Who would name a sponsor publicly given the situation? That'd be a terrible move. Also, what would be satisfactory as proof about where the money comes from? Truth is, only three people know who we have been working with, and what the offers are and we're not going to share that information publicly because we can't. We're trying to be honest about the situation, but the fact is there is only so much we can say. It's not hard to go over to reddit and look into the past drama that has surrounded some of the players we let go, and I don't think it's too hard to understand the sponsor's reasoning. That said, Pulse was happy to work with everyone on the team but our situation changed substantially and we couldn't. Even still, we paid all our players in full and covered all the expenses we said we would. If anyone needs proof to that effect it can be provided.
Anyway, I've given all the information on the topic I can really. It's up to the community if they wish to take me at my word or not. I just felt it was best to offer my input since there was so much speculation floating about.
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On November 12 2012 11:35 Proziam wrote:
Even still, we paid all our players in full and covered all the expenses we said we would..
My only problem with this is we went 1/3 of the way through November and werent compensated for that. Which i can see is as understandable if you had given us a heads up so we can proceed elsewhere. The whole, check your email please, followed by a vague email was pretty lame.
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On November 12 2012 12:38 iS.jEcho wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 11:35 Proziam wrote:
Even still, we paid all our players in full and covered all the expenses we said we would.. My only problem with this is we went 1/3 of the way through November and werent compensated for that. Which i can see is as understandable if you had given us a heads up so we can proceed elsewhere. The whole, check your email please, followed by a vague email was pretty lame.
I totally agree with that. And it mentioned nothing about who's being cut, from the team. It's like "Yeah go figure it out yourself".
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This is becoming a common occurrence in the scene and it seems a lot of organizations/teams are investing money carelessly. Let this be a lesson to all of you who want to startup and invest in a team/eSports organization. If you want to be successful develop a business plan and seek advice from others who have been successful in their ventures. Dumping money into a team without a plan leads to situations like this. In the end its a failure of management and ownership for not properly looking at the long term suitability of their organization.
Best of luck to all the players. I hope you guys all find a new loving home that will take care of you!
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What could the sponsors be possibly worried about? I suppose I might not be following all the drama too much, but the players that were let don't seem like big drama magnets to me.
Also, was it about the contracts allowing the players too much freedom (whatever that means, exactly), or was it about the sponsors not liking the players that were contracted? I fully understand if this is not being answered, but it's worth a try. 
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Really sad that sponsors are now requiring teams to keep players on a tight leash in order to avoid the community's drama backlash. This is the first concrete proof we have that the community's sponsor-contacting campaigns have a negative effect on smaller up and coming teams trying to secure sponsorship. That the sponsors told Pulse the players have too much freedom can only mean the sponsors are requiring teams to contractually obligate players to not post on community sites. Unless there's some other freedom that players have that the sponsors want to limit, I can't think of anything else that's plausible. Just more confirmation that the community would be better off without the drama queens who have weak moral character and contact sponsors. For those people to call themselves fans of SC2 and esports is a joke.
And how ironic that drama queens would come in here and criticize Pulse when in fact Pulse's hands were tied by the same type of drama queens from the community. This is a classic example of people with insufficient information trying to be powerful and sneer at an organization in the scene. You criticize them for contracting players before finalizing sponsorships...have you considered the possibility that it would be tough to find sponsors without any players? Do you know whether sponsors require teams to have executed contracts in place with players before they will send money? No, because you're an outsider, and don't understand the up front commitment that may be required from team managers before they can become established in the scene. For you to call Pulse a joke of an organization in this context makes you the quintessential drama queen of the sc2 community. Guess it makes you feel powerful and better about yourself when you sneer at others.
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It isn't really that we contact sponsors, or that there are campaigns to contact them. The problem is that The Community only ever actually contacts the sponsors to bitch or complain. We might have a good number of people that take support of eSports into consideration when buying a new product (I do), but very very few ever send a positive message to sponsors. The only times I've contacted sponsors (see signature) have been positive notes - either "I just bought your product, in part because you support x y or z, and I'm glad I did as it is also a quality product" or "I can't take advantage of your product or service, but I want you to know that I would if I could because of your support for X. Ever think of expanding your range to this geographical area?"
(Actually, I also complimented LA Bite for their participation and clever commercial with NASL - a lot better than just a logo on a shirt or quick shoutout from commentators. Of course, I also think the Kingston HyperX commercials EG does are pretty darn sweet too.)
So, drama bad, but contacting sponsors POSITIVELY should be a good thing and encouraged. Especially if you can concretely show that there is a ROI for the sponsor - ie, "I went with a HyperX SSD because, in addition to being a good product, you sponsor multiple eSports teams and events. That was the tipping point from consideration to purchase."
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On November 12 2012 23:52 Doodsmack wrote:
Really sad that sponsors are now requiring teams to keep players on a tight leash in order to avoid the community's drama backlash. This is the first concrete proof we have that the community's sponsor-contacting campaigns have a negative effect on smaller up and coming teams trying to secure sponsorship. That the sponsors told Pulse the players have too much freedom can only mean the sponsors are requiring teams to contractually obligate players to not post on community sites. Unless there's some other freedom that players have that the sponsors want to limit, I can't think of anything else that's plausible. Just more confirmation that the community would be better off without the drama queens who have weak moral character and contact sponsors. For those people to call themselves fans of SC2 and esports is a joke.
And how ironic that drama queens would come in here and criticize Pulse when in fact Pulse's hands were tied by the same type of drama queens from the community. This is a classic example of people with insufficient information trying to be powerful and sneer at an organization in the scene. You criticize them for contracting players before finalizing sponsorships...have you considered the possibility that it would be tough to find sponsors without any players? Do you know whether sponsors require teams to have executed contracts in place with players before they will send money? No, because you're an outsider, and don't understand the up front commitment that may be required from team managers before they can become established in the scene. For you to call Pulse a joke of an organization in this context makes you the quintessential drama queen of the sc2 community. Guess it makes you feel powerful and better about yourself when you sneer at others.
No, the problem is that Pulse hasn't handled the issue well at all. I understand having sponsorship issues, but at the same time, by accounts of the players, they've handled this very poorly.
And refusing to name sponsors makes me really doubtful. Wanna know why sponsorships exist? So that the company can gain exposure to new markets. Refusing to name sponsors (and not just talking about during this fiasco, I mean before the players were released as well) just makes me really, really, skeptical.
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lol havent even heard of this team, and all the players are like low level anyway so it doesnt really matter
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On November 13 2012 01:05 AgentChaos wrote:
lol havent even heard of this team, and all the players are like low level anyway so it doesnt really matter
uh... they aren't low level. Some of these players are crazy good. Regardless of whether or not you've heard of them.
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On November 12 2012 23:52 Doodsmack wrote:
Really sad that sponsors are now requiring teams to keep players on a tight leash in order to avoid the community's drama backlash. This is the first concrete proof we have that the community's sponsor-contacting campaigns have a negative effect on smaller up and coming teams trying to secure sponsorship. That the sponsors told Pulse the players have too much freedom can only mean the sponsors are requiring teams to contractually obligate players to not post on community sites. Unless there's some other freedom that players have that the sponsors want to limit, I can't think of anything else that's plausible. Just more confirmation that the community would be better off without the drama queens who have weak moral character and contact sponsors. For those people to call themselves fans of SC2 and esports is a joke.
And how ironic that drama queens would come in here and criticize Pulse when in fact Pulse's hands were tied by the same type of drama queens from the community. This is a classic example of people with insufficient information trying to be powerful and sneer at an organization in the scene. You criticize them for contracting players before finalizing sponsorships...have you considered the possibility that it would be tough to find sponsors without any players? Do you know whether sponsors require teams to have executed contracts in place with players before they will send money? No, because you're an outsider, and don't understand the up front commitment that may be required from team managers before they can become established in the scene. For you to call Pulse a joke of an organization in this context makes you the quintessential drama queen of the sc2 community. Guess it makes you feel powerful and better about yourself when you sneer at others.
Dude you try to sound intelligent but you are ignorant. Most teams spend months developing players and starting from the bottom up before attaining sponsors. It should take time to attain sponsors which is why most new teams dont instantly become big. They tried to take a short cut and buy a team without having sponsors secured. That is why they are a joke and frankly so is your post. Pay your dues don't make the players suffer.
Edit: let me do what doodsmack and pulse did. Lets recruit all the ex slayers + ogs free agents and contract them with promises of money. Then we can look for sponsors and if it doesnt work we can just cut them and blame potential sponsors and contractual freedoms we implemented inorder to sign them. Ur a genius doodsmack now everyone can start a pro org.
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On November 13 2012 01:18 KoDo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 23:52 Doodsmack wrote:
Really sad that sponsors are now requiring teams to keep players on a tight leash in order to avoid the community's drama backlash. This is the first concrete proof we have that the community's sponsor-contacting campaigns have a negative effect on smaller up and coming teams trying to secure sponsorship. That the sponsors told Pulse the players have too much freedom can only mean the sponsors are requiring teams to contractually obligate players to not post on community sites. Unless there's some other freedom that players have that the sponsors want to limit, I can't think of anything else that's plausible. Just more confirmation that the community would be better off without the drama queens who have weak moral character and contact sponsors. For those people to call themselves fans of SC2 and esports is a joke.
And how ironic that drama queens would come in here and criticize Pulse when in fact Pulse's hands were tied by the same type of drama queens from the community. This is a classic example of people with insufficient information trying to be powerful and sneer at an organization in the scene. You criticize them for contracting players before finalizing sponsorships...have you considered the possibility that it would be tough to find sponsors without any players? Do you know whether sponsors require teams to have executed contracts in place with players before they will send money? No, because you're an outsider, and don't understand the up front commitment that may be required from team managers before they can become established in the scene. For you to call Pulse a joke of an organization in this context makes you the quintessential drama queen of the sc2 community. Guess it makes you feel powerful and better about yourself when you sneer at others. Dude you try to sound intelligent but you are ignorant. Most teams spend months developing players and starting from the bottom up before attaining sponsors. It should take time to attain sponsors which is why most new teams dont instantly become big. They tried to take a short cut and buy a team without having sponsors secured. That is why they are a joke and frankly so is your post. Pay your dues don't make the players suffer.
I could not agree more with this.
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On November 13 2012 01:18 KoDo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 23:52 Doodsmack wrote:
Really sad that sponsors are now requiring teams to keep players on a tight leash in order to avoid the community's drama backlash. This is the first concrete proof we have that the community's sponsor-contacting campaigns have a negative effect on smaller up and coming teams trying to secure sponsorship. That the sponsors told Pulse the players have too much freedom can only mean the sponsors are requiring teams to contractually obligate players to not post on community sites. Unless there's some other freedom that players have that the sponsors want to limit, I can't think of anything else that's plausible. Just more confirmation that the community would be better off without the drama queens who have weak moral character and contact sponsors. For those people to call themselves fans of SC2 and esports is a joke.
And how ironic that drama queens would come in here and criticize Pulse when in fact Pulse's hands were tied by the same type of drama queens from the community. This is a classic example of people with insufficient information trying to be powerful and sneer at an organization in the scene. You criticize them for contracting players before finalizing sponsorships...have you considered the possibility that it would be tough to find sponsors without any players? Do you know whether sponsors require teams to have executed contracts in place with players before they will send money? No, because you're an outsider, and don't understand the up front commitment that may be required from team managers before they can become established in the scene. For you to call Pulse a joke of an organization in this context makes you the quintessential drama queen of the sc2 community. Guess it makes you feel powerful and better about yourself when you sneer at others. Dude you try to sound intelligent but you are ignorant. Most teams spend months developing players and starting from the bottom up before attaining sponsors. It should take time to attain sponsors which is why most new teams dont instantly become big. They tried to take a short cut and buy a team without having sponsors secured. That is why they are a joke and frankly so is your post. Pay your dues don't make the players suffer. Edit: let me do what doodsmack and pulse did. Lets recruit all the ex slayers + ogs free agents and contract them with promises of money. Then we can look for sponsors and if it doesnt work we can just cut them and blame potential sponsors and contractual freedoms we implemented inorder to sign them. Ur a genius doodsmack now everyone can start a pro org.
Keep in mind the sponsors are primarily attracted to this team's MOBA divisions. It could be that the sponsorship was all but a done deal but then when the sc2 players came on, the highly unexpected issue of drama prevention popped up. Its a very forgivable mistake, and completely unnecessary to call them a joke and try to banish them. This is a new a growing industry, we can let ppl make minor mistakes without causing a fuss about it. In regards to buying talent, you can't get big sponsors by saying "we've built this GM player up and he now gets 10 stream viewers and once got 10th place in a playhem, plz pay us."
In the end, the players got paid for their time except for 10 days in nov apparently. This is not a big deal. Funny how you're the one who made the thread and are now trying to carry the banner of esports justice and bring Pulse before the jury. Unfortunately for you your drama only garnered 7 pages.
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On November 13 2012 01:02 Zennith wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 23:52 Doodsmack wrote:
Really sad that sponsors are now requiring teams to keep players on a tight leash in order to avoid the community's drama backlash. This is the first concrete proof we have that the community's sponsor-contacting campaigns have a negative effect on smaller up and coming teams trying to secure sponsorship. That the sponsors told Pulse the players have too much freedom can only mean the sponsors are requiring teams to contractually obligate players to not post on community sites. Unless there's some other freedom that players have that the sponsors want to limit, I can't think of anything else that's plausible. Just more confirmation that the community would be better off without the drama queens who have weak moral character and contact sponsors. For those people to call themselves fans of SC2 and esports is a joke.
And how ironic that drama queens would come in here and criticize Pulse when in fact Pulse's hands were tied by the same type of drama queens from the community. This is a classic example of people with insufficient information trying to be powerful and sneer at an organization in the scene. You criticize them for contracting players before finalizing sponsorships...have you considered the possibility that it would be tough to find sponsors without any players? Do you know whether sponsors require teams to have executed contracts in place with players before they will send money? No, because you're an outsider, and don't understand the up front commitment that may be required from team managers before they can become established in the scene. For you to call Pulse a joke of an organization in this context makes you the quintessential drama queen of the sc2 community. Guess it makes you feel powerful and better about yourself when you sneer at others. + Show Spoiler +No, the problem is that Pulse hasn't handled the issue well at all. I understand having sponsorship issues, but at the same time, by accounts of the players, they've handled this very poorly. And refusing to name sponsors makes me really doubtful. Wanna know why sponsorships exist? So that the company can gain exposure to new markets. Refusing to name sponsors (and not just talking about during this fiasco, I mean before the players were released as well) just makes me really, really, skeptical.
Since I stopped following NASL after S1, who is the big sponsor behind Season 1-3 of NASL?
The one where in the original thread it only says:
"Sponsors?: We're sponsored by pennies we picked up in the various ponds and fountains around the world. The money is there and ready to be given out to some amazing players!"
Problem is in esports everything is a "sponsor". In other sports you differentiate between a "sponsor" and an "investor". Though both just give a team money and want different ROI (fame vs money)
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Both sides are at fault here.
a) Pulse seems like a bad team with pretty shady management.
b) These players were so quick to hop on to a promise of getting some money, it reveals a lot about their character. I don't feel any sympathy for a player ditching his old team for some new team because they'll pay 100 bucks per month more, then complaining about that new team not working out.
Everyone is pointing the finger at Pulse, but I really wouldn't feel bad for any of these players. This is kinda what you get for making hasty, uninformed decisions, ~_~;;
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On November 13 2012 02:46 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 01:02 Zennith wrote:On November 12 2012 23:52 Doodsmack wrote:
Really sad that sponsors are now requiring teams to keep players on a tight leash in order to avoid the community's drama backlash. This is the first concrete proof we have that the community's sponsor-contacting campaigns have a negative effect on smaller up and coming teams trying to secure sponsorship. That the sponsors told Pulse the players have too much freedom can only mean the sponsors are requiring teams to contractually obligate players to not post on community sites. Unless there's some other freedom that players have that the sponsors want to limit, I can't think of anything else that's plausible. Just more confirmation that the community would be better off without the drama queens who have weak moral character and contact sponsors. For those people to call themselves fans of SC2 and esports is a joke.
And how ironic that drama queens would come in here and criticize Pulse when in fact Pulse's hands were tied by the same type of drama queens from the community. This is a classic example of people with insufficient information trying to be powerful and sneer at an organization in the scene. You criticize them for contracting players before finalizing sponsorships...have you considered the possibility that it would be tough to find sponsors without any players? Do you know whether sponsors require teams to have executed contracts in place with players before they will send money? No, because you're an outsider, and don't understand the up front commitment that may be required from team managers before they can become established in the scene. For you to call Pulse a joke of an organization in this context makes you the quintessential drama queen of the sc2 community. Guess it makes you feel powerful and better about yourself when you sneer at others. + Show Spoiler +No, the problem is that Pulse hasn't handled the issue well at all. I understand having sponsorship issues, but at the same time, by accounts of the players, they've handled this very poorly. And refusing to name sponsors makes me really doubtful. Wanna know why sponsorships exist? So that the company can gain exposure to new markets. Refusing to name sponsors (and not just talking about during this fiasco, I mean before the players were released as well) just makes me really, really, skeptical. Since I stopped following NASL after S1, who is the big sponsor behind Season 1-3 of NASL? The one where in the original thread it only says: "Sponsors?: We're sponsored by pennies we picked up in the various ponds and fountains around the world. The money is there and ready to be given out to some amazing players!" Problem is in esports everything is a "sponsor". In other sports you differentiate between a "sponsor" and an "investor". Though both just give a team money and want different ROI (fame vs money)
Well the difference there is that NASL had the money it needed and the business plan when it started. This team (the sc2 division anyway) did not. That is not to say that people wasn't skeptical of NASL. "will they pay out", "can we trust them", "no sponsors.. eh?". Just look at old Weapon of Choice episodes and you see that Chill and Wheat was skeptical. Hopeful, but skeptical.
The point is. This team failed, NASL did not.
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On November 12 2012 12:38 iS.jEcho wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2012 11:35 Proziam wrote:
Even still, we paid all our players in full and covered all the expenses we said we would.. My only problem with this is we went 1/3 of the way through November and werent compensated for that. Which i can see is as understandable if you had given us a heads up so we can proceed elsewhere. The whole, check your email please, followed by a vague email was pretty lame.
Before Pulse was launched, I had a discussion with one of the owners. Guess I was right afterall, he should have taken my advice.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cf25B.jpg)
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So what I will take from this, the following.
Some sponsors WILL do background checks on players and what the game community has to say about them.
And they will act on it and refuse to have individuals on the teams they give their money for.
So the more stupid drama posts about a player do pop up on reddit or elsewhere, the worse chance they will have to get a future in Starcraft II. Community self inflicted stupidness.
It is not anymore trickle down sponsorship or wildly throwing out money at teams, but the question has to be answered:
"is this person able & person's reputation good enough to represent and promote my product / brand"
What this signalizes to the Stacraft II community is that there is no more a developing market, but rather a movement toward concentration on the teams, players, casters and one day also tournament who are worth investing in.
Some popular players have called this as the death of Starcraft a couple weeks ago. It is not that but yeah there is signs that Starcraft is no more a blooming pr growing market. All parties in this hobby should see this and be encouraged to now stabilize their brands, contracts and sponsorship for longevity rather than short term gains.
It is unfortunate that the players are those who get the shortest ends in these business deals.. but thats the issues of a single player game really.
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Aw man Everize just got his jersey from these guys too. He was finally a noteable player.
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EPT
