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On October 25 2012 19:33 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 18:44 jackdaleaper wrote:On October 25 2012 18:26 Martijn wrote:
Wait, wtf, I can't work through all 24 pages of this. How did we get from "Manager J seems to have lied about sponsorship offerings to the SlayerS team" to "This is all Jessicas fault because she trusted Manager J to translate things accurately"? I can't wrap my head around how we could've possibly ended up here.
Can we at least agree that not locking your car properly is stupid, but stealing said car is still the real crime? Semi-related analogies aside: Trusting the wrong people can be stupid (though it's some times extremely difficult to tell), but that's nothing in the grand scale of debauchery that Manager J allegedly was in to.. This was what I was thinking too. Most of the posts I see either bash or defend Jessica, why isn't anyone crucifying manager J? Edit: okay, there ARE some people who are outraged over what manager J did, I still don't get it why people are blaming Jessica more than him though. Easy ... Jessica is "the head of the fish" and a fish starts to smell at the head. She owns and manages the team and thus is ultimately responsible. Apparently she was "smart enough" to allow manager J to use her own email account, which is not good as a manager. This caused the Razer confusion for sponsorship and who declined it. She also did NOTHING after several people complained about the bad team spirit. She is also ultimately responsible for not getting new sponsors for the team. So yeah, manager J probably did a few bad things, but Jessica did LOTS more ... mostly due to neglect. Since she doesnt acknowledge these responsibilities and the blame attached to them and instead tries to put all of the blame on the players, she ends up as the real villain of the story who portraits herself as the victim. Its all about CAUSE and EFFECT. Manager J, MMA and all the others blamed by her are only the effect of an incompetent head management by her.
That's INCREDIBLY naive.
Anyone that knows anything about western progaming teams knows that the rolls are completely blurred. I imagine it's not that different in Korean progaming teams. A manager isn't a supervisor and the rolls of a manager or even between different managers on the same team differ highly. Not to mention this Manager J used to be the contact for a sponsor right? Then when he lost his role at said sponsor, he moved to become a manager.
1. This means that he used to be on equal terms or even above Jessica (because we know the pressure sponsors can put up in esports)
2. He'd obviously be a good candidate to deal with sponsors because he's familiar with the team-sponsor relation. Not to mention the players seem to like him.
Speculation here, but if you email someone in English that doesn't speak English, you have to know that regardless of anything else, you are going to get a reply from someone in the best scenario translating and worst case making stuff up as they see fit. And even if the email had been in perfect Korean, if you contact a team (regardless of who you contact) regarding sponsorship, you're going to be forwarded to the person handling sponsorship. Who's email account was used is mindblowingly irrelevant to what happened. The only reason people keep bringing this up is because now it's not clear for us who sent what. Like we're somehow entitled to a play-by-play of the drama. Me, I'm lazy, I'd rather just forward the email to someone, but it has happened many times that people contact me regarding players, teams or sponsors that I don't deal with personally. Am I responsible for what the person I forwarded these people to does or is it fair for me to assume they'll do what they're supposed to; ie. their job?
Jessica delegated work to someone she thought she could trust. She seemingly had good reason to believe this guy was trustworthy. And that's the only thing we can hold her accountable for, trusting Manager J. The same guy who got certain players to trust him over Jessica.
We can argue that the atmosphere in the team was uncomfortable, we can argue that Jessica is a bad team owner, but we have 0 factual support either way. Personally, between an eSF embargo and someone telling the players I'm stealing their sponsorships, I don't think I could've held together the team either if things did happen in the order they were presented.
On October 25 2012 20:11 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 19:40 Shinta) wrote:On October 25 2012 19:33 Rabiator wrote:On October 25 2012 18:44 jackdaleaper wrote:On October 25 2012 18:26 Martijn wrote:
Wait, wtf, I can't work through all 24 pages of this. How did we get from "Manager J seems to have lied about sponsorship offerings to the SlayerS team" to "This is all Jessicas fault because she trusted Manager J to translate things accurately"? I can't wrap my head around how we could've possibly ended up here.
Can we at least agree that not locking your car properly is stupid, but stealing said car is still the real crime? Semi-related analogies aside: Trusting the wrong people can be stupid (though it's some times extremely difficult to tell), but that's nothing in the grand scale of debauchery that Manager J allegedly was in to.. This was what I was thinking too. Most of the posts I see either bash or defend Jessica, why isn't anyone crucifying manager J? Edit: okay, there ARE some people who are outraged over what manager J did, I still don't get it why people are blaming Jessica more than him though. Easy ... Jessica is "the head of the fish" and a fish starts to smell at the head. She owns and manages the team and thus is ultimately responsible. Apparently she was "smart enough" to allow manager J to use her own email account, which is not good as a manager. This caused the Razer confusion for sponsorship and who declined it. She also did NOTHING after several people complained about the bad team spirit. She is also ultimately responsible for not getting new sponsors for the team. So yeah, manager J probably did a few bad things, but Jessica did LOTS more ... mostly due to neglect. Since she doesnt acknowledge these responsibilities and the blame attached to them and instead tries to put all of the blame on the players, she ends up as the real villain of the story who portraits herself as the victim. Its all about CAUSE and EFFECT. Manager J, MMA and all the others blamed by her are only the effect of an incompetent head management by her. You obviously lack experience in the field... You're opinion is relatively correct, in that in the end, everything boiled down to the fact that the team owner/manager could not maintain the trust of the players. However, to say that that is entirely her fault, when it was the players who ignorantly decided to not trust her (without talking to her first, without trying to fully understand the situation, without any real reason to not trust her). Any team manager who's players one day stop trusting her and don't even tell her about it will be caught by surprise, and to save the team at that point is near impossible. Especially when the players at fault refuse to trust her after solid evidence is shown, and are the core of the team (MMA, Alicia, Ryung, CranK, 4 of the most popular players on SlayerS worldwide). I am not saying that the players and manager J did everything perfect and dont deserve any blame, but Jessicas share is so MUCH bigger and yet she tries to blame only the players, which demonstrates bad personality, so she totally deserves to be trashed much more than the players. In the end - if the players had kept on trusting her - it wouldnt have mattered, because she is just terrible at managing a team and the end would have come a little later. It is easier and better to "let go" of something good than to artificially keep it alive. Btw. ... no one needs "experience in the field" here, just some good common sense and no fanboyism/worship of one or the other side.
I'm sorry, but implying Manager J didn't do everything perfect has got to be the biggest understatement of the day. Furthermore Jessica called out eSF and she called out Manager J, she didn't blame "only" the players, that's just nonsense.
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GG Jessica
Please never have anything to do with eSports again.
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Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what.
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On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what.
First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team.
With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit.
For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots.
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On October 25 2012 20:25 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what. First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team. With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit. For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots.
Don't try to reason with haters mate. You won't accomplish anything except maybe Totalbiscuit raging at you. I don't even bother arguing with obvious haters anymore, it's just wasted time.
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On October 25 2012 20:25 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what. First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team. With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit. For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots.
Failing is acceptable.
Failing and blaming those whom you've failed, potentially ruining their career, is not.
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On October 25 2012 20:28 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:25 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what. First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team. With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit. For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots. Failing is acceptable. Failing and blaming those whom you've failed, potentially ruining their career, is not.
Afaik she blames herself for the seemingly biggest problem in the team, Manager J. Correct me if im wrong.
Edit: also, i certainly have not enough insight do decide wether she/slayers would have failed if they had no training-ban or sponsors. Do you?
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Russian Federation216 Posts
On October 25 2012 20:25 HolyExlxF wrote:
No....no more. PLEASE.
Im tired of this kind of comments... stop it
The shit is already happend, get the reality.
Let people solve their problems
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On October 25 2012 20:27 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:25 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what. First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team. With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit. For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots. Don't try to reason with haters mate. You won't accomplish anything except maybe Totalbiscuit raging at you. I don't even bother arguing with obvious haters anymore, it's just wasted time.
What hateful remark did i make? O_o
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On October 25 2012 20:28 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:25 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what. First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team. With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit. For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots. Failing is acceptable. Failing and blaming those whom you've failed, potentially ruining their career, is not.
Ya know, Jessica is the one bearing the blunt of negativity and prejudice from this from the start, and if she didn't have another career and can't settle this dispute her career would have been the first one ruined. The failures of these other people are already being piled on Jessica because she's the manager.
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On October 25 2012 20:27 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:25 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what. First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team. With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit. For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots. Don't try to reason with haters mate. You won't accomplish anything except maybe Totalbiscuit raging at you. I don't even bother arguing with obvious haters anymore, it's just wasted time.
Eh, meh, TB and I get into a shouting match every few months and then make up the day after.
On October 25 2012 20:28 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:25 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what. First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team. With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit. For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots. Failing is acceptable. Failing and blaming those whom you've failed, potentially ruining their career, is not.
I don't think she should've made much of this public to begin with and you should always work your ass off to protect your players from backlash. That's your job as a manager and them leaving your team doesn't change that, for that period, you are supposed to shield them. (Obviously this doesn't mean you should sweep things under the rug either)
But you don't feel the players should've just confronted her when they were being lied to by Manager J? Surely in hindsight they could've handled this better too. As messed up as it was for Jessica to point it out, as much as she didn't express it properly and as much as I believe she should've ever made it public, there was at least a grain of reasoning in it.
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On October 25 2012 20:32 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:27 m4inbrain wrote:On October 25 2012 20:25 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what. First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team. With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit. For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots. Don't try to reason with haters mate. You won't accomplish anything except maybe Totalbiscuit raging at you. I don't even bother arguing with obvious haters anymore, it's just wasted time. What hateful remark did i make? O_o
Do i need to quote your recent comments on Jessica, about backstabbing the players, stuff like that? The least of people (except some asian people) "do see no fault in Jessica". Yet, its getting more and more clear that she may be a crappy manager - and still she may not be the reason for slayers downfall. In fact, Jessica has as much blame to take as the players for the downfall of slayers (and btw, she blames them not for destroying slayers, but their dishonesty etc) - there are way more pressing problems at hand. Namely a scammer which Jessica warned IPL about, and a "corrupted" (for the lack of better words) ESF.
Edit: btw, these two problems alone could destroy any korean Pro-Team anytime. Even without Jessica as manager, as long as the players behave like the slayers-players did (not confronting her, trusting the wrong guy over the management, going behind her back).
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On October 25 2012 20:32 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:27 m4inbrain wrote:On October 25 2012 20:25 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what. First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team. With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit. For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots. Don't try to reason with haters mate. You won't accomplish anything except maybe Totalbiscuit raging at you. I don't even bother arguing with obvious haters anymore, it's just wasted time. What hateful remark did i make? O_o
Not a hateful remark per se, it's just that you show obvious hate towards Jessica.
Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what.
Yes of course it matters.
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On October 25 2012 20:38 Martijn wrote:
But you don't feel the players should've just confronted her when they were being lied to by Manager J? Surely in hindsight they could've handled this better too. As messed up as it was for Jessica to point it out, as much as she didn't express it properly and as much as I believe she should've ever made it public, there was at least a grain of reasoning in it.
That's always been the part that's got me in this entire thing - I think everyone involved appeared to have handled some aspect of the situation badly - there's noone who is blameless.
But the idea that she wasn't asked about the lies of Mister J and what was happening with the sponsorship... The players have got noone to blame but themselves there. If they thought something was happening with that, they should have raised it with Jessica - and a lot might have come out in the open far earlier (and far less drama as a result). Jessica shouldn't be held accountable for the incorrect beliefs of others if they make no real effort to seek out the truth.
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On October 25 2012 20:48 Atroxx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:38 Martijn wrote:
But you don't feel the players should've just confronted her when they were being lied to by Manager J? Surely in hindsight they could've handled this better too. As messed up as it was for Jessica to point it out, as much as she didn't express it properly and as much as I believe she should've ever made it public, there was at least a grain of reasoning in it. That's always been the part that's got me in this entire thing - I think everyone involved appeared to have handled some aspect of the situation badly - there's noone who is blameless. But the idea that she wasn't asked about the lies of Mister J and what was happening with the sponsorship... The players have got noone to blame but themselves there. If they thought something was happening with that, they should have raised it with Jessica - and a lot might have come out in the open far earlier (and far less drama as a result). Jessica shouldn't be held accountable for the incorrect beliefs of others if they make no real effort to seek out the truth.
Ehh, well said. I've been trying to explain that since ages now but never so coherently as that.
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On October 25 2012 20:48 Atroxx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:38 Martijn wrote:
But you don't feel the players should've just confronted her when they were being lied to by Manager J? Surely in hindsight they could've handled this better too. As messed up as it was for Jessica to point it out, as much as she didn't express it properly and as much as I believe she should've ever made it public, there was at least a grain of reasoning in it. That's always been the part that's got me in this entire thing - I think everyone involved appeared to have handled some aspect of the situation badly - there's noone who is blameless. But the idea that she wasn't asked about the lies of Mister J and what was happening with the sponsorship... The players have got noone to blame but themselves there. If they thought something was happening with that, they should have raised it with Jessica - and a lot might have come out in the open far earlier (and far less drama as a result). Jessica shouldn't be held accountable for the incorrect beliefs of others if they make no real effort to seek out the truth.
It's a result of the players being young and inexperienced in dealing with issues like this. I think those of us that "have been around" know that if you are told someone is screwing you, it's almost always best to bring it up with those people even if you make clear it's just rumors. Either you are indeed getting screwed by those people or someone telling you that is trying to screw with you now. The whole "I won't tell them and instead try to go on behind their backs" has little place outside of sitcoms and even there it rarely ends well, heh.
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On October 24 2012 14:01 Fionn wrote:
So is this going to end up like Fight Club? Manager J and Jessica were the same person all along?
I died. This comment wins.
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On October 25 2012 20:11 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 19:40 Shinta) wrote:On October 25 2012 19:33 Rabiator wrote:On October 25 2012 18:44 jackdaleaper wrote:On October 25 2012 18:26 Martijn wrote:
Wait, wtf, I can't work through all 24 pages of this. How did we get from "Manager J seems to have lied about sponsorship offerings to the SlayerS team" to "This is all Jessicas fault because she trusted Manager J to translate things accurately"? I can't wrap my head around how we could've possibly ended up here.
Can we at least agree that not locking your car properly is stupid, but stealing said car is still the real crime? Semi-related analogies aside: Trusting the wrong people can be stupid (though it's some times extremely difficult to tell), but that's nothing in the grand scale of debauchery that Manager J allegedly was in to.. This was what I was thinking too. Most of the posts I see either bash or defend Jessica, why isn't anyone crucifying manager J? Edit: okay, there ARE some people who are outraged over what manager J did, I still don't get it why people are blaming Jessica more than him though. Easy ... Jessica is "the head of the fish" and a fish starts to smell at the head. She owns and manages the team and thus is ultimately responsible. Apparently she was "smart enough" to allow manager J to use her own email account, which is not good as a manager. This caused the Razer confusion for sponsorship and who declined it. She also did NOTHING after several people complained about the bad team spirit. She is also ultimately responsible for not getting new sponsors for the team. So yeah, manager J probably did a few bad things, but Jessica did LOTS more ... mostly due to neglect. Since she doesnt acknowledge these responsibilities and the blame attached to them and instead tries to put all of the blame on the players, she ends up as the real villain of the story who portraits herself as the victim. Its all about CAUSE and EFFECT. Manager J, MMA and all the others blamed by her are only the effect of an incompetent head management by her. You obviously lack experience in the field... You're opinion is relatively correct, in that in the end, everything boiled down to the fact that the team owner/manager could not maintain the trust of the players. However, to say that that is entirely her fault, when it was the players who ignorantly decided to not trust her (without talking to her first, without trying to fully understand the situation, without any real reason to not trust her). Any team manager who's players one day stop trusting her and don't even tell her about it will be caught by surprise, and to save the team at that point is near impossible. Especially when the players at fault refuse to trust her after solid evidence is shown, and are the core of the team (MMA, Alicia, Ryung, CranK, 4 of the most popular players on SlayerS worldwide). I am not saying that the players and manager J did everything perfect and dont deserve any blame, but Jessicas share is so MUCH bigger and yet she tries to blame only the players, which demonstrates bad personality, so she totally deserves to be trashed much more than the players. In the end - if the players had kept on trusting her - it wouldnt have mattered, because she is just terrible at managing a team and the end would have come a little later. It is easier and better to "let go" of something good than to artificially keep it alive. Btw. ... no one needs "experience in the field" here, just some good common sense and no fanboyism/worship of one or the other side.
lol, logic says you're completely wrong. The atmosphere was ruined and Jessica didn't do much wrong. Especially with more solid evidence against Manager J. It should have never gotten to the point of being "artificially alive" if people like MMA hadn't been so incredibly immature and stupid. He has a big lesson to learn, and BoxeR takes the biggest hit in his career just because of MMA's ignorant actions.
You do need experience in the field, because your "common sense" is actually bias and you don't even realize it.
Let's just agree to completely disagree.
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On October 25 2012 19:04 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 18:58 achan1058 wrote:On October 25 2012 18:57 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 18:50 achan1058 wrote:On October 25 2012 18:44 jackdaleaper wrote:On October 25 2012 18:26 Martijn wrote:
Wait, wtf, I can't work through all 24 pages of this. How did we get from "Manager J seems to have lied about sponsorship offerings to the SlayerS team" to "This is all Jessicas fault because she trusted Manager J to translate things accurately"? I can't wrap my head around how we could've possibly ended up here.
Can we at least agree that not locking your car properly is stupid, but stealing said car is still the real crime? Semi-related analogies aside: Trusting the wrong people can be stupid (though it's some times extremely difficult to tell), but that's nothing in the grand scale of debauchery that Manager J allegedly was in to.. This was what I was thinking too. Most of the posts I see either bash or defend Jessica, why isn't anyone crucifying manager J? Edit: okay, there ARE some people who are outraged over what manager J did, I still don't get it why people are blaming Jessica more than him though. She went on a rampage on everyone. If she only blamed J and eSF, we would all blame J and eSF. Ok, who else is included in this "everyone"? As far as I can tell, she was right about the eSF nonsense and that's why the guy stepped down. From what I read here, for now she seems to be right about Manager J lying to her and players trying to pit them against her. With "everyone" are we talking the players that believed Manager Js word over hers? I'd like to first establish what you mean. I mean her player as well. It does not matter whether she's correct or incorrect. There's no question that she lashed out at everyone, and when you do that, even if you are correct, people look at you very negatively. Ok, but if we're blaming Jessica for being deceived by Manager J, how can we not blame the players that were deceived by Manager J? Logically, you can either fault both Jessica and the players or not fault either of them. I'm pretty sure we're metagaming this discussion at this point.
It's quite simple. The players trusted some manager that wasn't there for very long over Jessica. Jessica found out, kicked the dude out, apologized to the team, twice, and they still didn't fuckin believe her for whatever reason.
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EPT
