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On October 25 2012 21:18 blamekilly wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 19:04 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 18:58 achan1058 wrote:On October 25 2012 18:57 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 18:50 achan1058 wrote:On October 25 2012 18:44 jackdaleaper wrote:On October 25 2012 18:26 Martijn wrote:
Wait, wtf, I can't work through all 24 pages of this. How did we get from "Manager J seems to have lied about sponsorship offerings to the SlayerS team" to "This is all Jessicas fault because she trusted Manager J to translate things accurately"? I can't wrap my head around how we could've possibly ended up here.
Can we at least agree that not locking your car properly is stupid, but stealing said car is still the real crime? Semi-related analogies aside: Trusting the wrong people can be stupid (though it's some times extremely difficult to tell), but that's nothing in the grand scale of debauchery that Manager J allegedly was in to.. This was what I was thinking too. Most of the posts I see either bash or defend Jessica, why isn't anyone crucifying manager J? Edit: okay, there ARE some people who are outraged over what manager J did, I still don't get it why people are blaming Jessica more than him though. She went on a rampage on everyone. If she only blamed J and eSF, we would all blame J and eSF. Ok, who else is included in this "everyone"? As far as I can tell, she was right about the eSF nonsense and that's why the guy stepped down. From what I read here, for now she seems to be right about Manager J lying to her and players trying to pit them against her. With "everyone" are we talking the players that believed Manager Js word over hers? I'd like to first establish what you mean. I mean her player as well. It does not matter whether she's correct or incorrect. There's no question that she lashed out at everyone, and when you do that, even if you are correct, people look at you very negatively. Ok, but if we're blaming Jessica for being deceived by Manager J, how can we not blame the players that were deceived by Manager J? Logically, you can either fault both Jessica and the players or not fault either of them. I'm pretty sure we're metagaming this discussion at this point. It's quite simple. The players trusted some manager that wasn't there for very long over Jessica. Jessica found out, kicked the dude out, apologized to the team, twice, and they still didn't fuckin believe her for whatever reason.
Nor Boxer and Cella for that matter.
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On October 25 2012 21:18 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:11 Rabiator wrote:On October 25 2012 19:40 Shinta) wrote:On October 25 2012 19:33 Rabiator wrote:On October 25 2012 18:44 jackdaleaper wrote:On October 25 2012 18:26 Martijn wrote:
Wait, wtf, I can't work through all 24 pages of this. How did we get from "Manager J seems to have lied about sponsorship offerings to the SlayerS team" to "This is all Jessicas fault because she trusted Manager J to translate things accurately"? I can't wrap my head around how we could've possibly ended up here.
Can we at least agree that not locking your car properly is stupid, but stealing said car is still the real crime? Semi-related analogies aside: Trusting the wrong people can be stupid (though it's some times extremely difficult to tell), but that's nothing in the grand scale of debauchery that Manager J allegedly was in to.. This was what I was thinking too. Most of the posts I see either bash or defend Jessica, why isn't anyone crucifying manager J? Edit: okay, there ARE some people who are outraged over what manager J did, I still don't get it why people are blaming Jessica more than him though. Easy ... Jessica is "the head of the fish" and a fish starts to smell at the head. She owns and manages the team and thus is ultimately responsible. Apparently she was "smart enough" to allow manager J to use her own email account, which is not good as a manager. This caused the Razer confusion for sponsorship and who declined it. She also did NOTHING after several people complained about the bad team spirit. She is also ultimately responsible for not getting new sponsors for the team. So yeah, manager J probably did a few bad things, but Jessica did LOTS more ... mostly due to neglect. Since she doesnt acknowledge these responsibilities and the blame attached to them and instead tries to put all of the blame on the players, she ends up as the real villain of the story who portraits herself as the victim. Its all about CAUSE and EFFECT. Manager J, MMA and all the others blamed by her are only the effect of an incompetent head management by her. You obviously lack experience in the field... You're opinion is relatively correct, in that in the end, everything boiled down to the fact that the team owner/manager could not maintain the trust of the players. However, to say that that is entirely her fault, when it was the players who ignorantly decided to not trust her (without talking to her first, without trying to fully understand the situation, without any real reason to not trust her). Any team manager who's players one day stop trusting her and don't even tell her about it will be caught by surprise, and to save the team at that point is near impossible. Especially when the players at fault refuse to trust her after solid evidence is shown, and are the core of the team (MMA, Alicia, Ryung, CranK, 4 of the most popular players on SlayerS worldwide). I am not saying that the players and manager J did everything perfect and dont deserve any blame, but Jessicas share is so MUCH bigger and yet she tries to blame only the players, which demonstrates bad personality, so she totally deserves to be trashed much more than the players. In the end - if the players had kept on trusting her - it wouldnt have mattered, because she is just terrible at managing a team and the end would have come a little later. It is easier and better to "let go" of something good than to artificially keep it alive. Btw. ... no one needs "experience in the field" here, just some good common sense and no fanboyism/worship of one or the other side. lol, logic says you're completely wrong. The atmosphere was ruined and Jessica didn't do much wrong. Especially with more solid evidence against Manager J. It should have never gotten to the point of being "artificially alive" if people like MMA hadn't been so incredibly immature and stupid. He has a big lesson to learn, and BoxeR takes the biggest hit in his career just because of MMA's ignorant actions. You do need experience in the field, because your "common sense" is actually bias and you don't even realize it. Let's just agree to completely disagree.
How Manager J went from sponsor contact to manager and how even as a sponsor contact he hung out with players a lot simply leads to very confusing relationships. I'm assuming a few players saw him as a friend first seeming they didn't deal with sponsors themselves, then he became a manager which put them even closer. Another person in Manager Js position could've been a huge asset to the team. Instead players who were inexperienced in how to deal with these things got taken advantage of. Yeah, they should've handled it differently, but the whole situation they were put in by Manager J shoud've never come to be.
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On October 24 2012 14:01 Fionn wrote:
So is this going to end up like Fight Club? Manager J and Jessica were the same person all along?
hahahahahahaha!
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On October 25 2012 20:28 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:25 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what. First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team. With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit. For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots. Failing is acceptable. Failing and blaming those whom you've failed, potentially ruining their career, is not.
...and boom goes the dynamite, your last sentence hits the nail on the head.
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People keep asking why Jessica didn't sue Manager J. If I remember correctly, this happened shortly after her second run in with the public. People were giving her so much shit for wanting to sue the dude that blogged some not so nice things about her and Eve. I can't remember what the second one was but her players didn't really like her having twitter wars with other people. She thought about suing Manager J but considering what happened the last time she went public, she simple requested an apology from Manager J and for him to hand over the Slayer's twitter and facebook account. I don't think Manager J did any of those.
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On October 25 2012 21:33 Misoza wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:28 FuzzyJAM wrote:On October 25 2012 20:25 Martijn wrote:On October 25 2012 20:18 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Ok, so tell me people, who find no fault of Jessica. Were players supposed to remain on team, due to bad enviroment, no sponsors, no teamspirit, and distrust? Of course, you say they should leave 'properly' right? Well, does it even matter HOW they leave? team was fucked no matter what. First off, obviously Jessica did things wrong in hindsight. Hell, if she'd never let Manager J become a manager in the first place, we'd have a lot less to talk about. Second, it's hard to imagine the eSF embargo not leading to a bad environment or worsening the climate within the team. With someone credible instead of Manager J on the team, they might have had proper sponsors, they wouldn't have had a reason for distrust. And without the eSF embargo, there might not have been a bad environment or lack of teamspirit. For all I know Jessica is a really shitty team manager. But fact is, in the conditions she was in, most of us would've failed. We can't all be Scoots. Failing is acceptable. Failing and blaming those whom you've failed, potentially ruining their career, is not. ...and boom goes the dynamite, your last sentence hits the nail on the head.
Jessica didn't ruin their careers, they ruined their careers themselves. the truths are out and they gotta be responsible for their words and actions
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On October 25 2012 20:53 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:48 Atroxx wrote:On October 25 2012 20:38 Martijn wrote:
But you don't feel the players should've just confronted her when they were being lied to by Manager J? Surely in hindsight they could've handled this better too. As messed up as it was for Jessica to point it out, as much as she didn't express it properly and as much as I believe she should've ever made it public, there was at least a grain of reasoning in it. That's always been the part that's got me in this entire thing - I think everyone involved appeared to have handled some aspect of the situation badly - there's noone who is blameless. But the idea that she wasn't asked about the lies of Mister J and what was happening with the sponsorship... The players have got noone to blame but themselves there. If they thought something was happening with that, they should have raised it with Jessica - and a lot might have come out in the open far earlier (and far less drama as a result). Jessica shouldn't be held accountable for the incorrect beliefs of others if they make no real effort to seek out the truth. Ehh, well said. I've been trying to explain that since ages now but never so coherently as that.
The issue with the bolded statements is that MMA DID TAKE UP THE ISSUE WITH MANAGEMENT! He went to Boxer instead of Jessica and that caused Jessica to get really annoyed because Boxer actually thought MMA had a point and brought it up with Jessica, who couldn't believe that Boxer would ever believe Boxer could believe something MMA said over her silence on an issue. It's all there for you to read. To say that MMA blindly believed manager J is I think a little naive. I mean, apparently manager J had e-mail proof from Jessica's e-mail that she turned down a sponsorship for him, (that he apparently wrote himself, but which coming from her e-mail would be very convincing), whereas when MMA went to Boxer about it and he went to Jessica they said they knew nothing about something on her own e-mail.
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Reposting because it went in the wrong thread:
Their careers aren't ruined.
I loled at the Scoots reference and conditions plus delegations.
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On October 26 2012 03:21 Mozzery wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 20:53 Shival wrote:On October 25 2012 20:48 Atroxx wrote:On October 25 2012 20:38 Martijn wrote:
But you don't feel the players should've just confronted her when they were being lied to by Manager J? Surely in hindsight they could've handled this better too. As messed up as it was for Jessica to point it out, as much as she didn't express it properly and as much as I believe she should've ever made it public, there was at least a grain of reasoning in it. That's always been the part that's got me in this entire thing - I think everyone involved appeared to have handled some aspect of the situation badly - there's noone who is blameless. But the idea that she wasn't asked about the lies of Mister J and what was happening with the sponsorship... The players have got noone to blame but themselves there. If they thought something was happening with that, they should have raised it with Jessica - and a lot might have come out in the open far earlier (and far less drama as a result). Jessica shouldn't be held accountable for the incorrect beliefs of others if they make no real effort to seek out the truth. Ehh, well said. I've been trying to explain that since ages now but never so coherently as that. The issue with the bolded statements is that MMA DID TAKE UP THE ISSUE WITH MANAGEMENT! He went to Boxer instead of Jessica and that caused Jessica to get really annoyed because Boxer actually thought MMA had a point and brought it up with Jessica, who couldn't believe that Boxer would ever believe Boxer could believe something MMA said over her silence on an issue. It's all there for you to read. To say that MMA blindly believed manager J is I think a little naive. I mean, apparently manager J had e-mail proof from Jessica's e-mail that she turned down a sponsorship for him, (that he apparently wrote himself, but which coming from her e-mail would be very convincing), whereas when MMA went to Boxer about it and he went to Jessica they said they knew nothing about something on her own e-mail.
True, MMA did bring it up with Boxer and subsequently Jessica. The other players didn't.
But there was something troubling in MMA's interview. He basically said that even after talking with Boxer and Jessica, he *still didn't trust* her. I guess it's one of those situations where a lie is so powerful that the emotion lingers even if the facts have been revealed. But still, speaks to a terrible atmosphere in the team house.
Then of course they're claiming he stiffed his own coach from MLG.... so you could just say whenever money's involved, even the hint of misappropriation will destroy whatever relationships are in place.
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On October 26 2012 10:18 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 03:21 Mozzery wrote:On October 25 2012 20:53 Shival wrote:On October 25 2012 20:48 Atroxx wrote:On October 25 2012 20:38 Martijn wrote:
But you don't feel the players should've just confronted her when they were being lied to by Manager J? Surely in hindsight they could've handled this better too. As messed up as it was for Jessica to point it out, as much as she didn't express it properly and as much as I believe she should've ever made it public, there was at least a grain of reasoning in it. That's always been the part that's got me in this entire thing - I think everyone involved appeared to have handled some aspect of the situation badly - there's noone who is blameless. But the idea that she wasn't asked about the lies of Mister J and what was happening with the sponsorship... The players have got noone to blame but themselves there. If they thought something was happening with that, they should have raised it with Jessica - and a lot might have come out in the open far earlier (and far less drama as a result). Jessica shouldn't be held accountable for the incorrect beliefs of others if they make no real effort to seek out the truth. Ehh, well said. I've been trying to explain that since ages now but never so coherently as that. The issue with the bolded statements is that MMA DID TAKE UP THE ISSUE WITH MANAGEMENT! He went to Boxer instead of Jessica and that caused Jessica to get really annoyed because Boxer actually thought MMA had a point and brought it up with Jessica, who couldn't believe that Boxer would ever believe Boxer could believe something MMA said over her silence on an issue. It's all there for you to read. To say that MMA blindly believed manager J is I think a little naive. I mean, apparently manager J had e-mail proof from Jessica's e-mail that she turned down a sponsorship for him, (that he apparently wrote himself, but which coming from her e-mail would be very convincing), whereas when MMA went to Boxer about it and he went to Jessica they said they knew nothing about something on her own e-mail. True, MMA did bring it up with Boxer and subsequently Jessica. The other players didn't. But there was something troubling in MMA's interview. He basically said that even after talking with Boxer and Jessica, he *still didn't trust* her. I guess it's one of those situations where a lie is so powerful that the emotion lingers even if the facts have been revealed. But still, speaks to a terrible atmosphere in the team house. Then of course they're claiming he stiffed his own coach from MLG.... so you could just say whenever money's involved, even the hint of misappropriation will destroy whatever relationships are in place.
Yeah, while it is true that a small portion of MMA's winnings were put into a fund that he thought would have a portion paid to Ryu, (supposedly the fund that a small portion of winnings held by the team was said to go towards coaching/soccer stuff/etc.), he should have made sure that money did go to him from that fund or give it to Ryu himself. That's my biggest issue with MMA in this whole ordeal. I really can't say I blame him for not completely trusting Jessica when it's hard to prove conclusively a lot of the things Manager J said were untrue and her personality isn't exactly the type that takes questioning well it seems. It's possible if not probable that Jessica was telling the truth about not knowing what was going on with Manager J, but it's really hard to do anything conclusively.
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It's pretty dumb to discuss those tweets at all. So he says it was Manager J he was negotiating with that told him Jessica was who rejected the sponsorship? Ummm okay. If Manager J was involved in any of those negotiations, which is what appears to be so, then there's really no evidence that Jessica screwed MMA over.
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Hmm, is the undisclosed team that wanted MMA but Jessica asked for a high transfer fee Evil Genius? Because it coincided with EG and SlayerS ending partners at that time too.
If it's EG, I can understand why Jessica wanted to ask for big transfer fee.
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On October 26 2012 12:41 canikizu wrote:Hmm, is the undisclosed team that wanted MMA but Jessica asked for a high transfer fee Evil Genius? Because it coincided with EG and SlayerS ending partners at that time too. If it's EG, I can understand why Jessica wanted to ask for big transfer fee.
It's not just EG. MMA is tried; tested; and proven. The guy needs a new setting and has enough under his plate to warrant a good contract. Likewise, Slayers didn't just want to give him away and you should play your cards close to your sleeve to make sure you get the best deal.
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So the next installment in this series of drama novels is here. Anxiously awaiting for next week's tomorrow's installment.
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after read this topic , some people reply , i have learn that many people are stupid .
they should just close this topic
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So Jessica turned out to be a melodramatic liar, and a terrible manager. Still want to see her try to SUE RAZER. LAUNCH THE LAWYERS.
User was warned for this post
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ah this is how business should be done.. on twitter!
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EPT
