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On October 23 2012 13:13 geokilla wrote:
That's Korea for you. Why do you think so many idol groups pop up? How many idol groups are actually successful based on talent? Look at SNSD. I wouldn't say they have talent in terms of singing compared to IU. SNSD got the looks. That's it.
You serious? How is that different from Western Culture? You know how many boybands and talentless singers we have over here that are popular just because they have the looks? Too many to count. It's just the same over on this side of the world, at least if we're talking pop bands.
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On October 23 2012 13:18 eScaper-tsunami wrote:
3. LOL found his passion again? Oh look, jesus cured him of his neck injury and he found his passion again. Don't be naive.
Try being serious for once, it's really quite refreshing. CranK just had to pull out of MLG MvP, a tournament he was WINNING, because of his neck injury. What do you want, doctors notes? Medical records? This neck problem is real and on record ever since his time at SKT1, the fact is established.
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On October 23 2012 13:16 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 13:11 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 12:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 23 2012 12:57 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:
Regarding Crank vs Jessica, most foreign fans are on Jessica side. They really aren't. Bear in mind half of the posts in this thread are Shivals so that doesn't count o_o Unless you want to take a poll its really not relevant at all. Gross exageration, thanks. May I ask why you feel it necessary to do so? Trying to paint me as something I am not? Also why do you make so many twisted statements? You have a total of 258 posts. 80 of them are in this thread. There are so many in the other SlayerS related threads from the past week that the profile search won't actually show all of them. Think about that.
Already have, maybe you should try some simple calculation and see how those numbers add up to "half of the posts in this thread". Nor do I see the value of stating post numbers, care to try conversations with sane arguments?
Also, please answer the previous questions if you feel up to it.
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On October 23 2012 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 13:15 zefreak wrote:
Justified or not, I do feel a strong reaction when people criticize Boxer. Maybe I should move to korea.
I know he is human and has the same lapses of judgement and base motives, but he has shown himself to be of stronger stuff than 99% of people I know and it pains me to see him get shit. Now you know how I feel about CranK. It's taking a lot of restraint not to go apeshit at this point.
I feel for you, and I hope that this all resolves itself somehow. If it helps any, I don't think CranK did anything horrible...I don't think he's what people are making him out to be.
(No, guys, I couldn't fall asleep.)
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On October 23 2012 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 13:15 zefreak wrote:
Justified or not, I do feel a strong reaction when people criticize Boxer. Maybe I should move to korea.
I know he is human and has the same lapses of judgement and base motives, but he has shown himself to be of stronger stuff than 99% of people I know and it pains me to see him get shit. Now you know how I feel about CranK. It's taking a lot of restraint not to go apeshit at this point.
Well you are to be commended for sticking by your player. There are two issues I think. Was Crank entirely honest in the method he used to leave the team is one of them. Does Crank deserve this kind of response is the other. My answer would be no to both of them.
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Canada16217 Posts
On October 23 2012 13:18 eScaper-tsunami wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 13:15 NovemberstOrm wrote:On October 23 2012 13:10 eScaper-tsunami wrote:On October 23 2012 12:55 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 23 2012 12:53 boxturtle wrote:
Please make sure that crank knows most of the international opinion is on his side, despite what a few figures in the community may think of crank. I would hate to see him quit gaming after gaining so much drive and breaking out at Raleigh.
Also, it'd be nice if you could release some Axiom merch soon. I'd love to buy something in support of crank. It's really great that you're sticking with this investment. I hope it indeed works out and Korean personalities can become more marketable to the international audience.
He knows and he's grateful for it. It's unsurprising that the smarter folks understand how much smoke and mirrors is in play here and how little CranK's reason for leaving the team actually matters at all. He could have left because he didn't like the colour of the wallpaper for all I care. So he hurt Jessicas feelings, boohoo, let's get real and talk about why the team actually collapsed and why the people in charge repeatedly refuse to take ANY responsibility for it happening. I don't think this is about hurting Jessica's feeling. Jessica is attacking Crank at a very personal level because 1. Crank attributed to the break down of team Slayers 2. Crank's unprofessional behavior of not showing up for the team match just a day before the scheduled day 3. Crank was let go (released) from team with the promise of medical treatment, not seeking a foreign team Imagine Crank cancelled his MLG appearance on you the day before hand. Would you be pissed? Probably not if it was for sever medical reason. But then he quits the team citing medical reason and absolutely not to seek out another team with a better offer. Weeks later, he gets signed by EG. Then in an interview, he calls you an unprofessional manager. I hope you'd be pissed. 1: Crank didn't attribute to Slayers break down LOLO are you kidding me? 2: He didn't show up because he had a neck injury and said he couldn't play 3:He was released but he was never under a formal contract(written contract), he wanted to quit SC2 but he found his passion again so he signed to a different team because he didn't to have anything to do with what was going on with Slayers. Your points are in-complete and don't tell the whole story behind them. 1. *sigh* go read the articles. 2. He was sent home to recover, couldn't he have let management known 2 day... 3 day.. 4 days before hand? Nope, he had to do it in a text. 3. LOL found his passion again? Oh look, jesus cured him of his neck injury and he found his passion again. Don't be naive.
1: He didn't attribute to slayers break-down it's pretty simple to understand.(NAPPA:VEGETA WHAT DOES THE SCOUTER SAY ABOUT HIS IQ LEVEL? VEGETA: OH NO IT'S UNDER 50!)
2:So difference between text and a phone call? lol
3:He said the fans saved him from quitting if you think it's impossible to not find your passion again then idk what you want me to say. He has a neck injury, it's a fact.
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On October 23 2012 13:20 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 13:18 eScaper-tsunami wrote:
3. LOL found his passion again? Oh look, jesus cured him of his neck injury and he found his passion again. Don't be naive. Try being serious for once, it's really quite refreshing. CranK just had to pull out of MLG MvP, a tournament he was WINNING, because of his neck injury. What do you want, doctors notes? Medical records? This neck problem is real and on record ever since his time at SKT1, the fact is established.
And that's what I'm saying. It's been an on-going problem and he admits it. Yet he couldn't even let management know about cancelling his game days in advance? If the medical condition was enough to kill his passion for the game in the first place, what makes you think it isn't money that brought him back? I apologize if the jesus joke was crude but in all honesty, somebody who quits the game because of medical reasons, wouldn't and shouldn't come back to the game while still suffering.
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On October 23 2012 13:21 Shival wrote:
Already have, maybe you should try some simple calculation and see how those numbers add up to "half of the posts in this thread". Nor do I see the value of stating post numbers, care to try conversations with sane arguments?
Also, please answer the previous questions if you feel up to it.
Dude I'd need staff to keep track of all your "questions", you've dedicated most of the week to this thread for some reason. We've already answered everything we're gonna answer and I'm totally fine with standing by that.
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On October 23 2012 13:17 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 13:13 geokilla wrote:On October 23 2012 13:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 23 2012 13:07 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
So Boxer was allegedly unavailable and abrasive as a team manager (according to MMA), bailed on his team when they needed him to step up (seems obvious), and all we're talking about is Jessica and MMA? Boxer abandoned ship, and will now coach SKT, after figuring out that he was probably not cut out to be a team manager/owner. Boxer probably isn't getting enough blame, whereas the players are getting too much, and Jessica seems like her own worst enemy.
So I guess boxer would rather have his team implode than step on his fiance's toes? Rock onward. Or he could just be a lousy manager. Boxer is a sacred cow that cannot be harmed. Attacking Boxer is essentially career suicide in Korea it seems, their idol culture puts our fanbois to shame. I'll give Jessica credit for one thing, she's taking bullets for her fiance on this one by the looks of it. It's just a shame she decided to do it by clusterbombing everyone else. That's Korea for you. Why do you think so many idol groups pop up? How many idol groups are actually successful based on talent? Look at SNSD. I wouldn't say they have talent in terms of singing compared to IU. SNSD got the looks. That's it. If you believe that Taeyeon and Jessica don't have any singing talent comparable to IU you don't have a good ear. Simple as that.
I think you need to have your ears checked... IU is miles better than them. Though I haven't heard Taeyeon and Jessica sing solo so take that with a grain of salt if you'd like. I admit, I'm not die hard kpop fan and I can't tell who is who either.
Man Shival must be having fun causing a storm here on TL....
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Despite the limited reliability of these statements, it seems fairly clear to me that Slayers' fall is ultimately a matter of poor management. Young players can be expected to behave in a somewhat unruly way: given how foolish the contract and general arrangement seemed to be, with no clearly defined rules and such a ludicrous whatever-will-be approach, they didn't even necessarily do so maliciously.
Failure to communicate and organize on such a small scale betrays the very simple fact that Jessica and Boxer were simply unfit to manage a team. Boxer even left the team before the formal closure... what kind of behaviour is that if not an entirely opportunistic one?
It is just too bad that they had to drag naive helpers like Ryu (who smartly left) and Cella (too generous for his own sake) in their failure, not to mention that a lot of their players will either be forced to quit or have a hard time staying afloat.
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Australia528 Posts
On October 23 2012 13:23 eScaper-tsunami wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 13:20 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 23 2012 13:18 eScaper-tsunami wrote:
3. LOL found his passion again? Oh look, jesus cured him of his neck injury and he found his passion again. Don't be naive. Try being serious for once, it's really quite refreshing. CranK just had to pull out of MLG MvP, a tournament he was WINNING, because of his neck injury. What do you want, doctors notes? Medical records? This neck problem is real and on record ever since his time at SKT1, the fact is established. And that's what I'm saying. It's been an on-going problem and he admits it. Yet he couldn't even let management know about cancelling his game days in advance? If the medical condition was enough to kill his passion for the game in the first place, what makes you think it isn't money that brought him back? I apologize if the jesus joke was crude but in all honesty, somebody who quits the game because of medical reasons, wouldn't and shouldn't come back to the game while still suffering.
How much do you think Crank is being paid at the moment? I could probably earn three times what he's making by tutoring high school kids part time. Being a progamer, even on a foreign team, is not glamorous. Then again, progaming is all Crank and other progamers in his situation know so what choice did he have? I'm not defending Crank. He could have done many things differently. All I'm saying is please stop saying Crank screwed people over for money. There is hardly any money in progaming.
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well based on korean community reactions atm, i'll tell you that there's a shit ton of confusion. no one's particularly siding with anyone at this point (comparable to everyone shitting on crank/alicia in the beginning). the logical posters are prevailing, with questions being raised about what went wrong, who's telling the lies, etc etc.
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I don't get it. Why do people care if Crank said this or said that? Crank has a new team and good for him. Everyone makes mistakes, is it really this important to decide who's less wrong? Have none of you made mistakes that you refused to admit were a mistake at the time but realized later on that you were wrong? People make mistakes ... get over it. I hope for the best for everyone involved and hope that all parties learn from what happened and mature from it.
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On October 23 2012 13:25 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 13:17 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 13:13 geokilla wrote:On October 23 2012 13:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 23 2012 13:07 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
So Boxer was allegedly unavailable and abrasive as a team manager (according to MMA), bailed on his team when they needed him to step up (seems obvious), and all we're talking about is Jessica and MMA? Boxer abandoned ship, and will now coach SKT, after figuring out that he was probably not cut out to be a team manager/owner. Boxer probably isn't getting enough blame, whereas the players are getting too much, and Jessica seems like her own worst enemy.
So I guess boxer would rather have his team implode than step on his fiance's toes? Rock onward. Or he could just be a lousy manager. Boxer is a sacred cow that cannot be harmed. Attacking Boxer is essentially career suicide in Korea it seems, their idol culture puts our fanbois to shame. I'll give Jessica credit for one thing, she's taking bullets for her fiance on this one by the looks of it. It's just a shame she decided to do it by clusterbombing everyone else. That's Korea for you. Why do you think so many idol groups pop up? How many idol groups are actually successful based on talent? Look at SNSD. I wouldn't say they have talent in terms of singing compared to IU. SNSD got the looks. That's it. If you believe that Taeyeon and Jessica don't have any singing talent comparable to IU you don't have a good ear. Simple as that. I think you need to have your ears checked... IU is miles better than them. Though I haven't heard Taeyeon and Jessica sing solo so take that with a grain of salt if you'd like. I admit, I'm not die hard kpop fan and I can't tell who is who either. Man Shival must be having fun causing a storm here on TL....
taeyeon's pretty good (hence being lead vocal singer), jessica is average if not below average. lets not diverge though...
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On October 23 2012 13:19 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 13:16 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 23 2012 13:11 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 12:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 23 2012 12:57 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:
Regarding Crank vs Jessica, most foreign fans are on Jessica side. They really aren't. Bear in mind half of the posts in this thread are Shivals so that doesn't count o_o Unless you want to take a poll its really not relevant at all. Gross exageration, thanks. May I ask why you feel it necessary to do so? Trying to paint me as something I am not? Also why do you make so many twisted statements? You have a total of 258 posts. 80 of them are in this thread. There are so many in the other SlayerS related threads from the past week that the profile search won't actually show all of them. Think about that. The amount of his posts in this thread compared to his total posts is in no way related to how many posts defending Jessica are his. Also he believes in what he says and says what he believes. Is that supposed to count against him in some way? Is that supposed to make his opinion or his reasoning less credible?
Thanks, I wish some certain other person would atleast be able to think of that.
On October 23 2012 13:24 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 13:21 Shival wrote:
Already have, maybe you should try some simple calculation and see how those numbers add up to "half of the posts in this thread". Nor do I see the value of stating post numbers, care to try conversations with sane arguments?
Also, please answer the previous questions if you feel up to it. Dude I'd need staff to keep track of all your "questions", you've dedicated most of the week to this thread for some reason. We've already answered everything we're gonna answer and I'm totally fine with standing by that.
"Questions"? Why are you trying to keep belittling me, but avoid responding to my questions. Something must itch somewhere.
If you've answered everything you're going to answer, may I ask you to please leave the thread because it adds nothing but personal attacks.
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I feel bad for Crank and MMA, even if they misbehaved it was taken out of proportion. I would have quit long ago, I really respect them for staying after all of this mess but I wouldn't blame them either if they decided to move on.
Is it really normal for someone to ask for an apology from a person after they already damaged the reputation while also threatening to sue? Not to mention, a private phone call was also released and instead of being used to prove one side of the story is instead used to ridicule the other person. And the icing of the cake is that this person also says she cares a lot for her players, not enough to take the responsibility herself I guess.
The drama was juicy at first but after following it from the beggining to "the end" all this accomplish is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I have heard Ryung's name being mentioned here and there, I hope he stays out of this mess.
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Canada16217 Posts
On October 23 2012 13:27 RainMore wrote:
I don't get it. Why do people care if Crank said this or said that? Crank has a new team and good for him. Everyone makes mistakes, is it really this important to decide who's less wrong? Have none of you made mistakes that you refused to admit were a mistake at the time but realized later on that you were wrong? People make mistakes ... get over it. I hope for the best for everyone involved and hope that all parties learn from what happened and mature from it.
What can we say, people love drama.
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On October 23 2012 13:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 13:07 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
So Boxer was allegedly unavailable and abrasive as a team manager (according to MMA), bailed on his team when they needed him to step up (seems obvious), and all we're talking about is Jessica and MMA? Boxer abandoned ship, and will now coach SKT, after figuring out that he was probably not cut out to be a team manager/owner. Boxer probably isn't getting enough blame, whereas the players are getting too much, and Jessica seems like her own worst enemy.
So I guess boxer would rather have his team implode than step on his fiance's toes? Rock onward. Or he could just be a lousy manager. Boxer is a sacred cow that cannot be harmed. Attacking Boxer is essentially career suicide in Korea it seems, their idol culture puts our fanbois to shame. I'll give Jessica credit for one thing, she's taking bullets for her fiance on this one by the looks of it. It's just a shame she decided to do it by clusterbombing everyone else.
My fiance just called it "Boxer-itis".
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EPT
