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On November 07 2012 14:03 udgnim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 12:11 President Dead wrote:
Destiny seems to give this idea that responsibility towards a video game developer towards a video game is high in order. He really seems to take this game seriously, ... a little too seriously. This is a video game. He talks about it with the constantly touted phrase "e-sport", which is not a sport as defined by the Dictionary. It's still a video game and he needs to chill out. If you're taking a video game this seriously than something tells me you need to step away from it for a while ... he has every right to take it seriously his job was playing a video game as a personality and he made good enough money doing it for a while but that is now declining
I don't think his stream has anything to do with the game imo, he's a really bad player and only gets stream views because his dysfunctional personality... sure the popularity of the game counts, but his stream is built around a foundation of being a douche bag.
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On November 07 2012 16:23 Charon1979 wrote:Show nested quote +And Forbes has specialists who know the game and its potential problems OR are they just like any other non-gamer journalist who has no clue? Starcraft 2 IS "just a video game" as long as there is no solid industry to make it worth becoming a progamer for a lot of people. Sure a handful (about 100 or maybe up to 200) of guys are able to live from playing the game, but thats far from a "thriving" industry, so read your last line yourself ... Tennis is also a "thriving" industry and still you have only a handful of guys who are able to live from playing...
What does that tell you ? 
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On November 07 2012 14:33 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 14:22 kammeyer wrote:On November 07 2012 12:11 President Dead wrote:
Destiny seems to give this idea that responsibility towards a video game developer towards a video game is high in order. He really seems to take this game seriously, ... a little too seriously. This is a video game. He talks about it with the constantly touted phrase "e-sport", which is not a sport as defined by the Dictionary. It's still a video game and he needs to chill out. If you're taking a video game this seriously than something tells me you need to step away from it for a while ... When Forbes is publishing articles on the possibility of it being a new thriving industry, it isn't "just a video game" anymore. Stop being a retard. And Forbes has specialists who know the game and its potential problems OR are they just like any other non-gamer journalist who has no clue? Starcraft 2 IS "just a video game" as long as there is no solid industry to make it worth becoming a progamer for a lot of people. Sure a handful (about 100 or maybe up to 200) of guys are able to live from playing the game, but thats far from a "thriving" industry, so read your last line yourself ...
I am not sure if more than 200 players can make a living from tennis.
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On November 07 2012 19:49 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 16:23 Charon1979 wrote:And Forbes has specialists who know the game and its potential problems OR are they just like any other non-gamer journalist who has no clue? Starcraft 2 IS "just a video game" as long as there is no solid industry to make it worth becoming a progamer for a lot of people. Sure a handful (about 100 or maybe up to 200) of guys are able to live from playing the game, but thats far from a "thriving" industry, so read your last line yourself ... Tennis is also a "thriving" industry and still you have only a handful of guys who are able to live from playing... What does that tell you ?
It tells me that stagnating viewer numbers lead to less money from sponsors which can collapse this "new industry". There is too much money and jobs on the line to say "its just another video game"
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NOTE: If you are on a US account, you wont be able to post there. - need an EU
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I played LOL last week with some friends, and my left hand was like "Dude! WTF! I'm so fucking bored! At least let me control 3 of these chars".
Why people like this game, not playing but watching? is boring as hell.
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Blizzard Korea came up with $6.5(aprrox.) SC2 promotion.
They're giving away SC2 for free who has WOW subscription on 11/13 00:00 KST. And the cheapest subscription(7days) is 7040KRW, which is approx. 6.5USD.
(SC2 was 69000KRW on release, which is 63.6USD. this is about 90% sale. It is currently 40000KRW though, still you can sat it's over 80% off.)
Are they really trying to make more ppl to play SC2? Or they just want more WOW player (they'll have to subscribe WOW)
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On November 08 2012 00:22 moyang wrote:
Blizzard Korea came up with $6.5(aprrox.) SC2 promotion.
They're giving away SC2 for free who has WOW subscription on 11/13 00:00 KST. And the cheapest subscription(7days) is 7040KRW, which is approx. 6.5USD.
(SC2 was 69000KRW on release, which is 63.6USD. this is about 90% sale.)
Are they being desperate about, or they just want more WOW player?
I thought that SC2 is subscription based in Korea? So if you buy the 7 days WOW package, you can only play SC2 for 7 days as well? Or am I missing something?
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On November 08 2012 00:28 Conti wrote:I thought that SC2 is subscription based in Korea? So if you buy the 7 days WOW package, you can only play SC2 for 7 days as well? Or am I missing something?
They have subscription(For this I mean WOW subscription, which gives pass to SC2 too) and 'unlimited(read: purchase)' options for SC2. In this case, they're giving unlimited pass for SC2.
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On November 07 2012 22:50 Angry.Zerg wrote:
I played LOL last week with some friends, and my left hand was like "Dude! WTF! I'm so fucking bored! At least let me control 3 of these chars".
Why people like this game, not playing but watching? is boring as hell.
That's what I think as well. I tried to play it, I really did, but there just wasn't enough to do for my hand. I go into every game spamming like mad with my mouse hand, tapping keys due to muscle memory, and then realize there's nothing to do lol.
Dota has a lot more to do so I'll definitely be playing that in the future when some of my friends play it too.
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On November 08 2012 00:32 moyang wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 00:28 Conti wrote:I thought that SC2 is subscription based in Korea? So if you buy the 7 days WOW package, you can only play SC2 for 7 days as well? Or am I missing something? They have subscription(For this I mean WOW subscription, which gives pass to SC2 too) and 'unlimited(read: purchase)' options for SC2. In this case, they're giving unlimited pass for SC2.
Wow. That's pretty insane, then.
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I think there is something going wrong with SC2 as a spectator event, especially when compared with BW, but i am not sure if it can be relegated to casual unfriendlyness or anything like that. Brood war had a different fascination to it, but i have no idea what caused/causes this. If someone can get behind that and apply the same things to SC2, that would be a huge step.
I never played a lot of BW, and if so, then mostly BGH or some shit. a little 1v1 as well, but not much and never very seriously. the vast majority of my gaming time was spent on guild wars or TF2 or something else, but i would still get up in the middle of the night and drink up every minute of a live OSL finals broadcast. Korean pro level BW was basically my only connection to the game and i loved it with all of my heart and soul. SC2 doesnt have the same thing to it. of course i dont have the luxury to waste a nights sleep any more, but sometimes, i log onto TL and glance over the stream list only to notice "Oh, its MLG, whaddoyouknow!" and proceed to play some Dota2 or make dinner and not waste another thought on it.
maybe its that BW was a more mysterious and rare thing, happening in a far away place with fewer competitors that left room for storylines and rivalries between the players or the sheer awe of just how damn good these people were at a game that is so hard to control properly. maybe its something else, i dont know. Maybe its overexposure: pro level SC2 is available to watch anywhere at any time, be it through player streams or tournaments that happen at a regular rate, trivialising the whole thing a bit.
When SC2 beta started, i watched many streams and some of the beta tournaments. When the game launched, i played it a lot for a while, i followed some streamers and watched the tournaments. First, i became severely disappointed with the single player story line and lost whatever little faith i had left in blizzard, but hung on to multiplayer. i made diamond in season one and was proud of myself, but lost interest soon after. ladder anxiety was a part of it, but it was also getting old real fast. i still watched tournaments occasionally, but found them less and less interesting and eventually stopped entirely.
In the end, my point is: I didnt have to play BW to find it fascinating over a long period of time, but even when i was playing the game, SC2 could not bind me in the same manner. Its not just about casual-ness and simplicity, i think there is a deeper level to it.
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On November 08 2012 00:32 moyang wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 00:28 Conti wrote:I thought that SC2 is subscription based in Korea? So if you buy the 7 days WOW package, you can only play SC2 for 7 days as well? Or am I missing something? They have subscription(For this I mean WOW subscription, which gives pass to SC2 too) and 'unlimited(read: purchase)' options for SC2. In this case, they're giving unlimited pass for SC2.
is this for korean battle.net? also check your pm thanks.
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On November 08 2012 01:07 TimeFlighT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 00:32 moyang wrote:On November 08 2012 00:28 Conti wrote:I thought that SC2 is subscription based in Korea? So if you buy the 7 days WOW package, you can only play SC2 for 7 days as well? Or am I missing something? They have subscription(For this I mean WOW subscription, which gives pass to SC2 too) and 'unlimited(read: purchase)' options for SC2. In this case, they're giving unlimited pass for SC2. is this for korean battle.net? also check your pm thanks.
If this is really whats happening that is great. Korean Sc2 is on the verge on finally breaking through IMO. With more people playing(if It's free with a WoW subscription) And plus the HotS showmatch with ESF and KeSPA(Which shows they are willing to work together with no drama around it) This could really push Sc2 ahead.
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This is the pathetic rage of a mediocre player who can't get a living out of this game. The number of people who rather watch a stream is getting bigger and bigger , that results in companys who would be intrested in getting the atention of those people and the BEST of the gamers will get some income out of this .
As in movies/sports or anything that has to do with entertainment there are lots of differences between them.
Let's just think for a moment about sports and E-sports. Every sport in this world had it up and down , if soccer goes in a bad period , crappy players ( aka destiny ) , bad manerd ones ( aka destiny ) , selfish ( aka destiny ) and list goes on less people will start watching them, but the people are still intrested in getting quality in that area and would rather watch a mediocre soccer game instead of a cycling race.
Same thing happens here with starcraft ( strategy games ), it's just a bad period because of the state of the game that doesn't allow HEROES to apear that will dominate at a new level of play. Just look what happened with Flash at last MLG , just the hope of Flash in sc2 as he was in bw had a huge effect.
The people that want to see great strategy/dota like/race/fighting games are there , you just have to make those games feel great to watch.
Sorry for the insults , but it's just the truth 
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On November 07 2012 14:33 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 14:22 kammeyer wrote:On November 07 2012 12:11 President Dead wrote:
Destiny seems to give this idea that responsibility towards a video game developer towards a video game is high in order. He really seems to take this game seriously, ... a little too seriously. This is a video game. He talks about it with the constantly touted phrase "e-sport", which is not a sport as defined by the Dictionary. It's still a video game and he needs to chill out. If you're taking a video game this seriously than something tells me you need to step away from it for a while ... When Forbes is publishing articles on the possibility of it being a new thriving industry, it isn't "just a video game" anymore. Stop being a retard. And Forbes has specialists who know the game and its potential problems OR are they just like any other non-gamer journalist who has no clue? Starcraft 2 IS "just a video game" as long as there is no solid industry to make it worth becoming a progamer for a lot of people. Sure a handful (about 100 or maybe up to 200) of guys are able to live from playing the game, but thats far from a "thriving" industry, so read your last line yourself ...
Oh man! I didn't know RABIATOR was on TeamLiquid! I'm sure he knows muuuch more about economics and potential profitable industries than analysts over at Forbes.
My bad, man. I forgot your intellectual prowess was on this site.
p.s. There is more to an industry thriving other than "200 guys able to make a living from it.". Sponsorships matter, viewers, potential economic growth, etc. Don't talk as if you understand economics please, you don't.
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On November 08 2012 02:39 Greenwizard wrote: This is the pathetic rage of a mediocre player who can't get a living out of this game. The number of people who rather watch a stream is getting bigger and bigger , that results in companys who would be intrested in getting the atention of those people and the BEST of the gamers will get some income out of this . As in movies/sports or anything that has to do with entertainment there are lots of differences between them. Let's just think for a moment about sports and E-sports. Every sport in this world had it up and down , if soccer goes in a bad period , crappy players ( aka destiny ) , bad manerd ones ( aka destiny ) , selfish ( aka destiny ) and list goes on less people will start watching them, but the people are still intrested in getting quality in that area and would rather watch a mediocre soccer game instead of a cycling race. Same thing happens here with starcraft ( strategy games ), it's just a bad period because of the state of the game that doesn't allow HEROES to apear that will dominate at a new level of play. Just look what happened with Flash at last MLG , just the hope of Flash in sc2 as he was in bw had a huge effect. The people that want to see great strategy/dota like/race/fighting games are there , you just have to make those games feel great to watch. Sorry for the insults , but it's just the truth
Let me present some counter arguments.
First of you say that the best people will earn money in this game. But it seems that not the best, but the most popular players are earning money. Just look at iNcontrol, but more importantly the problems that Koreans have with earning money while mediocre western players do earn some money. Second argument to this is that Newman (dignitas) has said that most teams are investing less in sc2. I think that this is easily observable.
Also, the popular players seem to be more interesting to a significant part of the community (look at streams) This can give a very scary future. CS is an example of a game where people were mostly interested in the popular players. When these players were over their top, and other players got better than them, the viewer numbers started to drasticly decline. I remember very well that IdrA said that tournaments shouldnt give the possibility of open brackets and just use invites only, this because it would make amore popular tournament (more well known and popular players). And you can see already that most new players are less respected than the established players that were known from the start.
Another argument that you use is the football viewers argument. People keep saying that football has many viewers that dont play the game itself. This is obviously true. But how many of these dont play the game because they dont have the time to make such an investment? Everybody that watches sc2 has the ability to play it (with an example of a certain few). Yet there is a big population that does not enjoy playing this game at all. What I want to say with this argument is that football viewers that dont play =/= sc2 viewers that dont play. We can not use that as an example and say that is will be like that for sc2 as well.
I do not think that sc2 is dying, but I do not think your arguments are sufficient.
Lastly, I do not get why you call Destiny a dick for all those reasons. And lets hope for you that you dont like IdrA either, then your at least consistant, and probably closer to the truth.
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On November 07 2012 22:50 Angry.Zerg wrote:
I played LOL last week with some friends, and my left hand was like "Dude! WTF! I'm so fucking bored! At least let me control 3 of these chars".
Why people like this game, not playing but watching? is boring as hell.
Exactly you played so little. When you get many champions/try many champions and different roles on different maps you will like it. Well everyone doesn't like it but i do at least ;d
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On November 08 2012 03:16 Deckkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 02:39 Greenwizard wrote: This is the pathetic rage of a mediocre player who can't get a living out of this game. The number of people who rather watch a stream is getting bigger and bigger , that results in companys who would be intrested in getting the atention of those people and the BEST of the gamers will get some income out of this . As in movies/sports or anything that has to do with entertainment there are lots of differences between them. Let's just think for a moment about sports and E-sports. Every sport in this world had it up and down , if soccer goes in a bad period , crappy players ( aka destiny ) , bad manerd ones ( aka destiny ) , selfish ( aka destiny ) and list goes on less people will start watching them, but the people are still intrested in getting quality in that area and would rather watch a mediocre soccer game instead of a cycling race. Same thing happens here with starcraft ( strategy games ), it's just a bad period because of the state of the game that doesn't allow HEROES to apear that will dominate at a new level of play. Just look what happened with Flash at last MLG , just the hope of Flash in sc2 as he was in bw had a huge effect. The people that want to see great strategy/dota like/race/fighting games are there , you just have to make those games feel great to watch. Sorry for the insults , but it's just the truth Lastly, I do not get why you call Destiny a dick for all those reasons. And lets hope for you that you dont like IdrA either, then your at least consistant, and probably closer to the truth.
Idra is a professional gamer that loses his temper at times, but admits he is wrong and that his actions were stupid. Most of his comments center around the quality of the other persons play and some other colorful remarks. While inappropriate, Idra always admits they were wrong and has never attempted to justify his behavior beyond saying he lost his temper.
Destiny is a semi-professional gamer who has failed to remain on any team, is known for making wildly offensive comments and attacks towards opponents and has never taking responsibility for his behavior. This does not even go into his inability to keep compromising photos of himself off the internet or out of the hands of questionable aged girls. Destiny has provided little to the community and his only saving grace is that he is well spoken and has the ability to make a reasonable argument. However, he has always shown a lack of self control.
The two can only be compared by the fact that they both said some mean things to opponents. However, in almost other way, they are different and should not be compaired.
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On November 08 2012 03:16 Deckkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 02:39 Greenwizard wrote: This is the pathetic rage of a mediocre player who can't get a living out of this game. The number of people who rather watch a stream is getting bigger and bigger , that results in companys who would be intrested in getting the atention of those people and the BEST of the gamers will get some income out of this . As in movies/sports or anything that has to do with entertainment there are lots of differences between them. Let's just think for a moment about sports and E-sports. Every sport in this world had it up and down , if soccer goes in a bad period , crappy players ( aka destiny ) , bad manerd ones ( aka destiny ) , selfish ( aka destiny ) and list goes on less people will start watching them, but the people are still intrested in getting quality in that area and would rather watch a mediocre soccer game instead of a cycling race. Same thing happens here with starcraft ( strategy games ), it's just a bad period because of the state of the game that doesn't allow HEROES to apear that will dominate at a new level of play. Just look what happened with Flash at last MLG , just the hope of Flash in sc2 as he was in bw had a huge effect. The people that want to see great strategy/dota like/race/fighting games are there , you just have to make those games feel great to watch. Sorry for the insults , but it's just the truth Let me present some counter arguments. First of you say that the best people will earn money in this game. But it seems that not the best, but the most popular players are earning money. Just look at iNcontrol, but more importantly the problems that Koreans have with earning money while mediocre western players do earn some money. Second argument to this is that Newman (dignitas) has said that most teams are investing less in sc2. I think that this is easily observable. Also, the popular players seem to be more interesting to a significant part of the community (look at streams) This can give a very scary future. CS is an example of a game where people were mostly interested in the popular players. When these players were over their top, and other players got better than them, the viewer numbers started to drasticly decline. I remember very well that IdrA said that tournaments shouldnt give the possibility of open brackets and just use invites only, this because it would make amore popular tournament (more well known and popular players). And you can see already that most new players are less respected than the established players that were known from the start. Another argument that you use is the football viewers argument. People keep saying that football has many viewers that dont play the game itself. This is obviously true. But how many of these dont play the game because they dont have the time to make such an investment? Everybody that watches sc2 has the ability to play it (with an example of a certain few). Yet there is a big population that does not enjoy playing this game at all. What I want to say with this argument is that football viewers that dont play =/= sc2 viewers that dont play. We can not use that as an example and say that is will be like that for sc2 as well. I do not think that sc2 is dying, but I do not think your arguments are sufficient. Lastly, I do not get why you call Destiny a dick for all those reasons. And lets hope for you that you dont like IdrA either, then your at least consistant, and probably closer to the truth.
Well two big things here: The power of E-sports doesn't come from people playing a game , it comes from the ones that WATCH others play. Most of the people who watched sc2 also played it but i have a friend who NEVER played the game but likes to watch it. Some players get more attention then others with the things they bring , like Incontrol by beeing a good analist in the games he plays. There are a lot of factors ... if i you make 2 streams 1 guy average masters that just shows his gameplay and another a hot looking girl that has a webcam who will get more viewers ? 
About the money, you are telling me that there aren't players who are a lot better then others and get paid less ? what about in the early period of football , it was even worst.
And Idra isn't a bad player.
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EPT
