|
On September 05 2013 04:56 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 04:49 dAPhREAk wrote:On September 05 2013 04:36 needcomputer wrote:
I funded this 3 figures to get the autographed T shirt. I will be talking to lawyers tomorrow. i'll save you a trip! if you want your money back, go to small claims court! there, you can spend lots of money and time, but get that moral (cough, pyrrhic) victory you deserve! if you want specific performance (i.e., you want the autographed t-shirt), prepare to shell out thousands upon thousands of dollars and find out that it wasnt worth it in the end (assuming you even get the shirt since if he doesnt have the shirt, the court cant force tastosis to sign the shirt)! i assume you are just being a morally outraged internet goer with no concept of legal issues though. it sucks that they arent performing (at least yet), but lets get real people. Do you have special powers to detect legal discussions from afar? Is that a special power you get when you take the BAR? Yeah, I was trying to let him down nicely, but you pretty much summed it up right there. Civil actions are for real problems that involve real money. Not T-shirts and a couple hundred bucks.
Not to mention that if he sues for the money, they will no longer be required to give him a T-Shirt.
If he sues for the T-Shirt, it would probably cost more than a trip to Korea to get the T-Shirt signed by Tastosis at the GOMTV studio.
|
On September 05 2013 05:08 dUTtrOACh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 04:56 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2013 04:49 dAPhREAk wrote:On September 05 2013 04:36 needcomputer wrote:
I funded this 3 figures to get the autographed T shirt. I will be talking to lawyers tomorrow. i'll save you a trip! if you want your money back, go to small claims court! there, you can spend lots of money and time, but get that moral (cough, pyrrhic) victory you deserve! if you want specific performance (i.e., you want the autographed t-shirt), prepare to shell out thousands upon thousands of dollars and find out that it wasnt worth it in the end (assuming you even get the shirt since if he doesnt have the shirt, the court cant force tastosis to sign the shirt)! i assume you are just being a morally outraged internet goer with no concept of legal issues though. it sucks that they arent performing (at least yet), but lets get real people. Do you have special powers to detect legal discussions from afar? Is that a special power you get when you take the BAR? Yeah, I was trying to let him down nicely, but you pretty much summed it up right there. Civil actions are for real problems that involve real money. Not T-shirts and a couple hundred bucks. Not to mention that if he sues for the money, they will no longer be required to give him a T-Shirt. If he sues for the T-Shirt, it would probably cost more than a trip to Korea to get the T-Shirt signed by Tastosis at the GOMTV studio.
Free legal tip from the internet: Suing someone for "Specific Relief"(aka, to force someone to preform a specific action, rather than for money) is rarely cost efficient or a good idea. Courts deal in money and the value of the harm done by a specific action. The goal of most civil actions is to be "made whole". So if you ask for a signed T-shirt, the court will likely just respond "how much is that worth." because forcing someone to do a specific thing is not practical.
|
On September 05 2013 05:08 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 04:56 needcomputer wrote:
Thanks for the advice even though it is mostly sarcastic...
It's shocking that you guys are defending these people rather than than the sc2 community supporters like myself. Everytime someone posts on this thread complaining about their donation, someone else (a non donator) shuts him down and makes him feel foolish and impatient.
Just so you know, because of this incident, I have largely reduced donating to sc2 things (charities, sc2 teamhouses, tournaments) that I would have probably donated in the past because I lost some faith.
But before you think I am a terrible person, I still constantly support individual streamers and am subscribed to a handful of channels.
I just am surprised you all (non donators) support this documentary and its producer when it has not done a thing for the community (no film = nothing) as of yet instead of people on here that do donate to many sc2 related things...
EDIT: It's not even about the money since I am well off. It's about the trust. I was looking forward to the documentary and getting some fan gear and it never arrived. It makes matters worse when you try to contact them but do not hear a thing. i just saved you hundreds of dollars on the lawyers you are seeing tomorrow--lol, unlikely--by giving you the exact same legal advice they would have given you. i am not defending the producers if that is what you are saying. i think they are unprofessional as hell. their latest "update" is shit considering they are a year late. they need to establish firm deadlines and how they are going to meet them, not this bullshit "we'll let you know when we feel like it." people should legitimately be upset at this dude. i am not criticizing the fact that you are upset, which is entirely legitimate; i am criticizing your stupid comment that you are going to see lawyers. something commonly said on the interwebs by people who know no better.
Pay for people to go on several years vacation..doing nothing but going to Esports event... and then question why they are "behind schedule" ?
Seriously idk how sorry I can even feel for donators who didnt see through the entire thing. Literally people paid for other people to live the dream.
Hey guys I wanna travel the world and stay at the most expensive hotels on the planet....ill film it and call it a documentary so I can justify begging strangers to pay for it right?
If you hand people a pile of money, 0 responsiblity, and 0 expectations/deadlines (or in this case 0 ways to ensure they reached any expectations or deadlines) idk if you should even have the moral/judicial right to complain about it. You cant complain about giving a hobo 100$ and u find out he spends it on alchohol... why did you give the hobo your money if you were that concerned about what would be done with it?
|
I just don't understand why it's so damn difficult to communicate about the progress. No one needs a set release date, but a simple blog update once a month, saying what you've been working on:
"Spent march editing footage from X and Y."
"Shot more stuff on location in May."
"Working together with Z on the music, it's great."
The latest update, after months of silence, is completely devoid of information, and is just random superlatives about what's coming "soon". Maybe it's entirely true, but no one has any way of knowing.
I'm almost certain you're not legally liable to do any of this, but if you're actually intending to be a filmmaker, this looks horrible to any future investors, be they crowdfunding backers or an actual studio. The lack of communication makes this appear like vaporware at best, and a scam to many people's eyes. You can't put "Sons of Starcraft" on your resume, because five minutes of googling will reveal its entire sordid history.
This and Star Nation are not only letting down the fans who funded them (caveat emptor and all that), but they're poisoning the well for any future crowdfunded projects in the Starcraft scene. And all that's needed is communication. Hell, if it's so hard doing this solo, why not involve community volunteers?
|
On September 05 2013 05:20 unigolyn wrote:
I just don't understand why it's so damn difficult to communicate about the progress. No one needs a set release date, but a simple blog update once a month, saying what you've been working on:
"Spent march editing footage from X and Y."
"Shot more stuff on location in May."
"Working together with Z on the music, it's great."
The latest update, after months of silence, is completely devoid of information, and is just random superlatives about what's coming "soon". Maybe it's entirely true, but no one has any way of knowing.
I'm almost certain you're not legally liable to do any of this, but if you're actually intending to be a filmmaker, this looks horrible to any future investors, be they crowdfunding backers or an actual studio. The lack of communication makes this appear like vaporware at best, and a scam to many people's eyes. You can't put "Sons of Starcraft" on your resume, because five minutes of googling will reveal its entire sordid history.
This and Star Nation are not only letting down the fans who funded them (caveat emptor and all that), but they're poisoning the well for any future crowdfunded projects in the Starcraft scene. And all that's needed is communication. Hell, if it's so hard doing this solo, why not involve community volunteers?
Not only that but they are slowly becoming irrelevant. No one is going to really care that much about footage shot over 2 years ago.
|
On September 05 2013 05:23 BlackPanther wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 05:20 unigolyn wrote:
I just don't understand why it's so damn difficult to communicate about the progress. No one needs a set release date, but a simple blog update once a month, saying what you've been working on:
"Spent march editing footage from X and Y."
"Shot more stuff on location in May."
"Working together with Z on the music, it's great."
The latest update, after months of silence, is completely devoid of information, and is just random superlatives about what's coming "soon". Maybe it's entirely true, but no one has any way of knowing.
I'm almost certain you're not legally liable to do any of this, but if you're actually intending to be a filmmaker, this looks horrible to any future investors, be they crowdfunding backers or an actual studio. The lack of communication makes this appear like vaporware at best, and a scam to many people's eyes. You can't put "Sons of Starcraft" on your resume, because five minutes of googling will reveal its entire sordid history.
This and Star Nation are not only letting down the fans who funded them (caveat emptor and all that), but they're poisoning the well for any future crowdfunded projects in the Starcraft scene. And all that's needed is communication. Hell, if it's so hard doing this solo, why not involve community volunteers? Not only that but they are slowly becoming irrelevant. No one is going to really care that much about footage shot over 2 years ago.
Why do people keep saying this? Of course people will care, you don't get a storyline from a single weekend do you?
People need to relax seriously
|
On September 05 2013 05:20 unigolyn wrote:
I just don't understand why it's so damn difficult to communicate about the progress. No one needs a set release date, but a simple blog update once a month, saying what you've been working on:
"Spent march editing footage from X and Y."
"Shot more stuff on location in May."
"Working together with Z on the music, it's great."
The latest update, after months of silence, is completely devoid of information, and is just random superlatives about what's coming "soon". Maybe it's entirely true, but no one has any way of knowing.
I'm almost certain you're not legally liable to do any of this, but if you're actually intending to be a filmmaker, this looks horrible to any future investors, be they crowdfunding backers or an actual studio. The lack of communication makes this appear like vaporware at best, and a scam to many people's eyes. You can't put "Sons of Starcraft" on your resume, because five minutes of googling will reveal its entire sordid history.
This and Star Nation are not only letting down the fans who funded them (caveat emptor and all that), but they're poisoning the well for any future crowdfunded projects in the Starcraft scene. And all that's needed is communication. Hell, if it's so hard doing this solo, why not involve community volunteers?
^^I wouldn't drag Star Nation into this. They updated pretty regularly and are very clear about what they are doing. There last update was 5 days ago and it was super clear as to their next step. I feel reasonably confident that if a backer emailed them, they would respond in a timely fashion. Son of Starcraft is another story. Sadly, I thought this was just people complaining about something they were not involved with, but backers seem to be not getting answers as well. Its a bummer, since it looked like they had a good idea. Maybe it will be released in the future, but I am sure the backers will be kinda soured by the event and be chasing down the rewards they were promised for months after that.
|
On September 05 2013 05:18 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 05:08 dAPhREAk wrote:On September 05 2013 04:56 needcomputer wrote:
Thanks for the advice even though it is mostly sarcastic...
It's shocking that you guys are defending these people rather than than the sc2 community supporters like myself. Everytime someone posts on this thread complaining about their donation, someone else (a non donator) shuts him down and makes him feel foolish and impatient.
Just so you know, because of this incident, I have largely reduced donating to sc2 things (charities, sc2 teamhouses, tournaments) that I would have probably donated in the past because I lost some faith.
But before you think I am a terrible person, I still constantly support individual streamers and am subscribed to a handful of channels.
I just am surprised you all (non donators) support this documentary and its producer when it has not done a thing for the community (no film = nothing) as of yet instead of people on here that do donate to many sc2 related things...
EDIT: It's not even about the money since I am well off. It's about the trust. I was looking forward to the documentary and getting some fan gear and it never arrived. It makes matters worse when you try to contact them but do not hear a thing. i just saved you hundreds of dollars on the lawyers you are seeing tomorrow--lol, unlikely--by giving you the exact same legal advice they would have given you. i am not defending the producers if that is what you are saying. i think they are unprofessional as hell. their latest "update" is shit considering they are a year late. they need to establish firm deadlines and how they are going to meet them, not this bullshit "we'll let you know when we feel like it." people should legitimately be upset at this dude. i am not criticizing the fact that you are upset, which is entirely legitimate; i am criticizing your stupid comment that you are going to see lawyers. something commonly said on the interwebs by people who know no better. Pay for people to go on several years vacation..doing nothing but going to Esports event... and then question why they are "behind schedule" ? Seriously idk how sorry I can even feel for donators who didnt see through the entire thing. Literally people paid for other people to live the dream. Hey guys I wanna travel the world and stay at the most expensive hotels on the planet....ill film it and call it a documentary so I can justify begging strangers to pay for it right? If you hand people a pile of money, 0 responsiblity, and 0 expectations/deadlines (or in this case 0 ways to ensure they reached any expectations or deadlines) idk if you should even have the moral/judicial right to complain about it. You cant complain about giving a hobo 100$ and u find out he spends it on alchohol... why did you give the hobo your money if you were that concerned about what would be done with it?
i dont think thats how kickstarter works. and there are legal obligations that arguably have not been fulfilled so its not that he doesnt have a legal right, its just a waste for him to pursue it.
i also dont think this is a situation where you blame the victim and say "you should know better." this was backed by tastosis who have a legit reputation. if this goes down as fraud or no product is produced, tastosis will and should take a hit to their reputation since they vouched for the producer and are, essentially, in the same boat that may sink.
|
Well, Sons of Starcraft isn't hurt as much by that, since it's about Tastosis more than just about SC2.
Star Nation seems DOA, though.
|
The truth is if they just sent out an update just to the backers apologizing for falling behind and maybe giving out a sample to only the backers then I would not feel bad at all. I understand you don't want to make too much of your documentary public because it would ruin it when it goes public, but at least send a snip of it to just the people who donated.
When you get scammed, you feel so much worse than if the producer actually just failed the project and was honest about it.
Like the above posts said, I paid for a nerd to live his dream of going to korea and meeting progamers and watching sc2 for the past 2 years.
+ Show Spoiler +
|
|
|
On September 05 2013 05:20 unigolyn wrote:
I just don't understand why it's so damn difficult to communicate about the progress. No one needs a set release date, but a simple blog update once a month, saying what you've been working on:
"Spent march editing footage from X and Y."
"Shot more stuff on location in May."
"Working together with Z on the music, it's great."
The latest update, after months of silence, is completely devoid of information, and is just random superlatives about what's coming "soon". Maybe it's entirely true, but no one has any way of knowing.
I'm almost certain you're not legally liable to do any of this, but if you're actually intending to be a filmmaker, this looks horrible to any future investors, be they crowdfunding backers or an actual studio. The lack of communication makes this appear like vaporware at best, and a scam to many people's eyes. You can't put "Sons of Starcraft" on your resume, because five minutes of googling will reveal its entire sordid history.
This and Star Nation are not only letting down the fans who funded them (caveat emptor and all that), but they're poisoning the well for any future crowdfunded projects in the Starcraft scene. And all that's needed is communication. Hell, if it's so hard doing this solo, why not involve community volunteers?
Why is everyone in the last page and a bit acting like he hasn't updated us all?
http://sonsofstarcraft.tumblr.com/post/60287957546/hey-guys-i-wanted-to-give-an-update-on-the
|
On September 05 2013 05:52 caradoc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 05:20 unigolyn wrote:
I just don't understand why it's so damn difficult to communicate about the progress. No one needs a set release date, but a simple blog update once a month, saying what you've been working on:
"Spent march editing footage from X and Y."
"Shot more stuff on location in May."
"Working together with Z on the music, it's great."
The latest update, after months of silence, is completely devoid of information, and is just random superlatives about what's coming "soon". Maybe it's entirely true, but no one has any way of knowing.
I'm almost certain you're not legally liable to do any of this, but if you're actually intending to be a filmmaker, this looks horrible to any future investors, be they crowdfunding backers or an actual studio. The lack of communication makes this appear like vaporware at best, and a scam to many people's eyes. You can't put "Sons of Starcraft" on your resume, because five minutes of googling will reveal its entire sordid history.
This and Star Nation are not only letting down the fans who funded them (caveat emptor and all that), but they're poisoning the well for any future crowdfunded projects in the Starcraft scene. And all that's needed is communication. Hell, if it's so hard doing this solo, why not involve community volunteers? Why is everyone in the last page and a bit acting like he hasn't updated us all? http://sonsofstarcraft.tumblr.com/post/60287957546/hey-guys-i-wanted-to-give-an-update-on-the
that update is from today and the update prior is from Oct 2012...
|
On September 05 2013 05:53 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2013 05:52 caradoc wrote:On September 05 2013 05:20 unigolyn wrote:
I just don't understand why it's so damn difficult to communicate about the progress. No one needs a set release date, but a simple blog update once a month, saying what you've been working on:
"Spent march editing footage from X and Y."
"Shot more stuff on location in May."
"Working together with Z on the music, it's great."
The latest update, after months of silence, is completely devoid of information, and is just random superlatives about what's coming "soon". Maybe it's entirely true, but no one has any way of knowing.
I'm almost certain you're not legally liable to do any of this, but if you're actually intending to be a filmmaker, this looks horrible to any future investors, be they crowdfunding backers or an actual studio. The lack of communication makes this appear like vaporware at best, and a scam to many people's eyes. You can't put "Sons of Starcraft" on your resume, because five minutes of googling will reveal its entire sordid history.
This and Star Nation are not only letting down the fans who funded them (caveat emptor and all that), but they're poisoning the well for any future crowdfunded projects in the Starcraft scene. And all that's needed is communication. Hell, if it's so hard doing this solo, why not involve community volunteers? Why is everyone in the last page and a bit acting like he hasn't updated us all? http://sonsofstarcraft.tumblr.com/post/60287957546/hey-guys-i-wanted-to-give-an-update-on-the that update is from today and the update prior is from Oct 2012...
And that update kinda sucked. I have defended this guy a lot and said that good things take time, but even I agree that thing is non-sense. Hopefully he wraps his head around how much more is needed and then he can give an more accurate time frame in the next few weeks.
|
Took a year to write a few general PR comments.
He spent 10$ of his 40k$ and hired a PR writer for an hour
|
On September 05 2013 06:07 needcomputer wrote:
Took a year to write a few general PR comments.
He spent 10$ of his 40k$ and hired a PR writer for an hour
I think he wrote those comments himself, dunno 10$ seems unnecessary because it wasn't that long really
|
Is this still a thing? I assumed it died with the rest of SC2... hah! Just kidding, although I seriously did think this project might end up on the never released pile of documentaries that this scene has developed. I would be happily surprised to see it but a year past deadline seems a bit of a stretch.
|
On September 05 2013 05:55 Plansix wrote:
And that update kinda sucked. I have defended this guy a lot and said that good things take time, but even I agree that thing is non-sense. Hopefully he wraps his head around how much more is needed and then he can give an more accurate time frame in the next few weeks.
I agree, it was a big announcement to preview a future announcement.
I would like to think the activity of this thread and people tweeting/emailing him and others involved in the project lit a fire to get them going even if it was an empty statement. Its just unfortunate that Alejos chose to be silent for the past months instead of engaging his investors and the community during the filmmaking process like he claimed he wanted to do. While reading through old reddit threads, I found where the director of Good Game, Mary Ratliff, was commenting on a few different threads. It was good to see that she is taking a different approach, she even offered to open up her books to show the community where their money has been going. It would be nice if Alejos chooses that sort of transparency when all is said and done.
My guess is sometime on Meta in the coming weeks, Artosis will announce the release date telling you that DVDs will be available on handsomenerd.com. A side note, it is pretty interesting how intertwined E-Sports management group, handsome nerd, Meta, Tastetosis, and this documentary all are. Funny they claim to just be some nerds, but they be business-minded nerds, cashing in on the Tastetosis personality while they are still pretty popular.
I think they will release at or slightly before Blizzcon, perhaps the season 3 finals week. It would make the most marketing/economic sense to get it out before the holiday season and Blizzcon will be their best chance to get the most eyes on it. Artosis would definitely plug it if he is commentating there. Not sure if anything in early 2014 would have near the hype that event would.
|
krazykoz I very much agree with the sentiment that the guy behind this has been doing a very piss poor job of communicating with the community and whatnot, but please stop referring to yourself and other backers as "investors". You are nothing more than donators, and that is the reality of Kickstarter whether you choose to accept it or not.
And it's good to see dAPhREAk dropping the common knowledge on the people who are actually serious about trying to sue this guy... ._.
|
On September 05 2013 07:30 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
krazykoz I very much agree with the sentiment that the guy behind this has been doing a very piss poor job of communicating with the community and whatnot, but please stop referring to yourself and other backers as "investors". You are nothing more than donators, and that is the reality of Kickstarter whether you choose to accept it or not.
And it's good to see dAPhREAk dropping the common knowledge on the people who are actually serious about trying to sue this guy... ._.
We can play the semantics game of what to call the backers of the project all day really. If backers are not necessarily investors, they are not necessarily donators either. As the terms of Kickstarter are if you back a project, you can expect to eventually receive the rewards you pledged for or your money back if the project never reaches fruition. So the creator of the Kickstarter project can't just take the money and run. It would be fair to use donation if there was nothing to expect in return, either goods or a refund. I'm guessing that is why they chose the term backers in the first place, heh.
I do agree that threatening legal action over a small sum such as this would not be worth the trouble/cost. If people are truly upset the best course of action to get your money back, as someone else mentioned, would be to contact your bank/credit card issuer and inform them of the situation and that you believe fraud has been committed. They will go through the necessary actions to get back your money.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
