EPTWhat? What's wrong with my post? People here saying that he should have asked for a copy of the contract before he went to Poland in the first place. They didn't let him send one to his lawyer what makes you think they will give him one that he can make a copy of scan it put it on the internet etc.?
Drama in MoW house. - Page 86
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Stop derailing with living cost talk On September 13 2012 07:51 MinistryOfWin wrote: Press Release: http://www.ministryofwin.com/news/press-release-september-13th-2012 Stay tuned for the article on ESFIWORLD.com. - Wednesday, Sep 12 10:51pm GMT (GMT+00:00) On September 13 2012 08:02 MinistryOfWin wrote: http://esfiworld.com/news/ministry-win-respond-fuzers-claims - Wednesday, Sep 12 11:02pm GMT (GMT+00:00) | ||
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XiWi
11 Posts
What? What's wrong with my post? People here saying that he should have asked for a copy of the contract before he went to Poland in the first place. They didn't let him send one to his lawyer what makes you think they will give him one that he can make a copy of scan it put it on the internet etc.? | ||
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:19 Yuen_pl wrote: People are you serious? One guy comes here are makes some claims, the situation seems to be a misunderstanding and should be solved quietly, but he decides to make a fuss about it. Fine, whatever. But what does community does? Behave like some mindless horde in 15th century, when someone passed a gossip that there's this strange girl and she's a witch. Hey bro, bring me my torch! Seriously people? A lot of players live in that house and no one complains. For me the guy was stupid. Sorry, but it's common sense to make sure everything is legally right - when i went to UK to work it'd be a suicide to do something like that. The MoW's boss agreed to give him the money back really quickly in fact, and he should take it. No hard feelings. A misunderstanding, some people are not meant to cooperate. But he decided to go tabloid about it. I don't like that. Every time something like that happens, people tend to exaggerate and make drama about it. It's fucked up IMO, but that's how it works. Now i read things like emailing sponsors - what the fuck? Seriously? Some people have too much free time. You act like this situation concerns you deeply, that it's e-sport you care a lot, but in reality it's not. It's no a LAN party made by friends, it's a business. So let it be a business. Some parties didn't agree and one of it was immature enough to make fuss about it. If all people behaved like that there would be no business in the world. Easy example: Apple sued Samsuns and won over a 1,000,000,000 from them. Even though they still cooperate and Samsung sells it's memore, PCU's or whatever to Apple. It's just business. Oh, and about some claims that 600euro/month is a ripoff and players are fucked in the ass. Some Polish people apparently wrote how you can live as a king for 600e. That's basically bullshit. BUT: 1. We're talking about Warsaw here which is really expensive compared to rest of Poland. 2. This is quite large and high-standard house. Renting that is definitely something like 2000e AT LEAST (i'm not gonna risk my head over that, but it's safe to assume that). 3. There are other things, like prepared meals, coach, internet, water, electricity, blablabla - this costs! 4. Company has to earn it's money. Personally i think 600e/month for opportunity to live in such house is a BARGAIN, and i say it even though i'm Polish and 2500pln (600e) is more than i earn monthly (and more than most people earn). You get to live in a great house, you get great technological standards, apparently only OK food standards (but that's easy to fix), and HUGE opportunities to develop as a player for 600e. Show me a better deal anywhere in the world. Do note that 600e isn't the only thing, you also need to work 5 hours a day. However this part: "For me the guy was stupid. Sorry, but it's common sense to make sure everything is legally right" Wasn't he trying to do just this? Seems like you're contradicting yourself here. | ||
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Thehealbus
38 Posts
On September 13 2012 10:52 BlackPanther wrote: How can someone boycott MoW without harming the players? I'm really curious. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. | ||
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Leijona
Finland56 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:19 Yuen_pl wrote: People are you serious? One guy comes here are makes some claims, the situation seems to be a misunderstanding and should be solved quietly, but he decides to make a fuss about it. Fine, whatever. But what does community does? Behave like some mindless horde in 15th century, when someone passed a gossip that there's this strange girl and she's a witch. Hey bro, bring me my torch! Seriously people? A lot of players live in that house and no one complains. For me the guy was stupid. Sorry, but it's common sense to make sure everything is legally right - when i went to UK to work it'd be a suicide to do something like that. The MoW's boss agreed to give him the money back really quickly in fact, and he should take it. No hard feelings. A misunderstanding, some people are not meant to cooperate. But he decided to go tabloid about it. I don't like that. Every time something like that happens, people tend to exaggerate and make drama about it. It's fucked up IMO, but that's how it works. Now i read things like emailing sponsors - what the fuck? Seriously? Some people have too much free time. You act like this situation concerns you deeply, that it's e-sport you care a lot, but in reality it's not. It's no a LAN party made by friends, it's a business. So let it be a business. Some parties didn't agree and one of it was immature enough to make fuss about it. If all people behaved like that there would be no business in the world. Easy example: Apple sued Samsuns and won over a 1,000,000,000 from them. Even though they still cooperate and Samsung sells it's memore, PCU's or whatever to Apple. It's just business. Oh, and about some claims that 600euro/month is a ripoff and players are fucked in the ass. Some Polish people apparently wrote how you can live as a king for 600e. That's basically bullshit. BUT: 1. We're talking about Warsaw here which is really expensive compared to rest of Poland. 2. This is quite large and high-standard house. Renting that is definitely something like 2000e AT LEAST (i'm not gonna risk my head over that, but it's safe to assume that). 3. There are other things, like prepared meals, coach, internet, water, electricity, blablabla - this costs! 4. Company has to earn it's money. Personally i think 600e/month for opportunity to live in such house is a BARGAIN, and i say it even though i'm Polish and 2500pln (600e) is more than i earn monthly (and more than most people earn). You get to live in a great house, you get great technological standards, apparently only OK food standards (but that's easy to fix), and HUGE opportunities to develop as a player for 600e. Show me a better deal anywhere in the world. MoW's "boss" basically asked for it with the way he dealt with things. Let's hope they learn a lesson from this but they've acted with this really poorly. No way we can blame Fuzer for this when the organisation is threatening its customer. Learn some customer service, even though its Poland you have international guests there. (Been to Poland, won't go again.) | ||
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:19 Yuen_pl wrote: Oh, and about some claims that 600euro/month is a ripoff and players are fucked in the ass. Some Polish people apparently wrote how you can live as a king for 600e. That's basically bullshit. Personally i think 600e/month for opportunity to live in such house is a BARGAIN, and i say it even though i'm Polish and 2500pln (600e) is more than i earn monthly (and more than most people earn). You get to live in a great house, you get great technological standards, apparently only OK food standards (but that's easy to fix), and HUGE opportunities to develop as a player for 600e. Show me a better deal anywhere in the world. Poland is one of the cheapest European countries in which to live, FACT. Even Warsaw. With the greatest of respect, Poland is a developing country. Please expand on the "huge opportunities to develop as a player". Building practice partner networks is free. You can buy coaching from fellow/senior professionals. Charging 600€ a month plus a stream cut is exorbitant. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:22 XiWi wrote: What? What's wrong with my post? People here saying that he should have asked for a copy of the contract before he went to Poland in the first place. They didn't let him send one to his lawyer what makes you think they will give him one that he can make a copy of scan it put it on the internet etc.? I have my rent contract right here and I could post it on the internet at any point, what's different? | ||
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greedyFarmer
United Kingdom21 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:14 NeMeSiS3 wrote: I understand that you can type whatever you want and I read his edit, but he was alluding or frankly stating that Fuzer falsified the conversation which MoW has not made a comment on (which they surely would have if it was false representation, and Fuzer couldn't be that stupid to do that) so that is HIGHLY unlikely to have occured. The most likely case was he didn't feel like annotating his image and knowing that if he lied MoW has the exact same text document on hand to deny any false claims he simply just posted the logs as such to change the name to "boss" Try to read again what I said if you don't mind, it had nothing to do with the childish edit and I just had to repeat myself. I do understand what you are saying but he did say he edited the chat logs and didnt provide a screen cap so that the name of the boss wouldn't be displayed. Since then MoW gave a screen cap of another conversation, albeit a small one, and he responded with a larger chunk of that same conversation making his original excuse obsolete. Even though I do agree that it is highly unlikely that he has fabricated this, there is no reason he can actually give us a screen cap of this and any other conversations that may give evidence to what has happened. IMO there is not enough evidence from either party on this matter, both have taken the dispute "into the street" and everyone has gathered around and turned it into a huge mess. This is between the two of them, both of them have been stupid but the people who have been most stupid are the people blindly picking sides without any evidence and slamming/ignoring anyone who has said that they should wait and see what happens before forming the lynching mob. Luckily I think the thread has calmed down a bit now and people will realise that the issue here was MoW not getting a signature before he got there and Fuzer not demanding to have everything sorted before they even saw a penny. | ||
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Gardel
Mexico220 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:19 Yuen_pl wrote: People are you serious? One guy comes here are makes some claims, the situation seems to be a misunderstanding and should be solved quietly, but he decides to make a fuss about it. Fine, whatever. But what does community does? Behave like some mindless horde in 15th century, when someone passed a gossip that there's this strange girl and she's a witch. Hey bro, bring me my torch! Seriously people? A lot of players live in that house and no one complains. For me the guy was stupid. Sorry, but it's common sense to make sure everything is legally right - when i went to UK to work it'd be a suicide to do something like that. The MoW's boss agreed to give him the money back really quickly in fact, and he should take it. No hard feelings. A misunderstanding, some people are not meant to cooperate. But he decided to go tabloid about it. I don't like that. Every time something like that happens, people tend to exaggerate and make drama about it. It's fucked up IMO, but that's how it works. Now i read things like emailing sponsors - what the fuck? Seriously? Some people have too much free time. You act like this situation concerns you deeply, that it's e-sport you care a lot, but in reality it's not. It's no a LAN party made by friends, it's a business. So let it be a business. Some parties didn't agree and one of it was immature enough to make fuss about it. If all people behaved like that there would be no business in the world. Easy example: Apple sued Samsuns and won over a 1,000,000,000 from them. Even though they still cooperate and Samsung sells it's memore, PCU's or whatever to Apple. It's just business. Oh, and about some claims that 600euro/month is a ripoff and players are fucked in the ass. Some Polish people apparently wrote how you can live as a king for 600e. That's basically bullshit. BUT: 1. We're talking about Warsaw here which is really expensive compared to rest of Poland. 2. This is quite large and high-standard house. Renting that is definitely something like 2000e AT LEAST (i'm not gonna risk my head over that, but it's safe to assume that). 3. There are other things, like prepared meals, coach, internet, water, electricity, blablabla - this costs! 4. Company has to earn it's money. Personally i think 600e/month for opportunity to live in such house is a BARGAIN, and i say it even though i'm Polish and 2500pln (600e) is more than i earn monthly (and more than most people earn). You get to live in a great house, you get great technological standards, apparently only OK food standards (but that's easy to fix), and HUGE opportunities to develop as a player for 600e. Show me a better deal anywhere in the world. MoW smurf account? | ||
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5ukkub
Poland507 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:23 Shikyo wrote: Do note that 600e isn't the only thing, you also need to work 5 hours a day. However this part: "For me the guy was stupid. Sorry, but it's common sense to make sure everything is legally right" Wasn't he trying to do just this? Seems like you're contradicting yourself here. Fuzer was living in MoW WITHOUT any contract signed for 2 months. He was giving cash directly to "Boss". After those two months MoW finally persuaded him to sign contract and this happened. As "Boss" stated, if not for his behavior and dirty living habbits, it wouldn't came to this, since they wanted to force Fuzer to obey the standards by singing the contract. It was MoW's fault and Fuzer's to not sign the contract immediately, but well... unproffesional as it is, nobody wants to live with dirty douche under the same roof. User was warned for this post | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:19 Yuen_pl wrote: People are you serious? One guy comes here are makes some claims, the situation seems to be a misunderstanding and should be solved quietly, but he decides to make a fuss about it. Fine, whatever. But what does community does? Behave like some mindless horde in 15th century, when someone passed a gossip that there's this strange girl and she's a witch. Hey bro, bring me my torch! Seriously people? A lot of players live in that house and no one complains. For me the guy was stupid. Sorry, but it's common sense to make sure everything is legally right - when i went to UK to work it'd be a suicide to do something like that. The MoW's boss agreed to give him the money back really quickly in fact, and he should take it. No hard feelings. A misunderstanding, some people are not meant to cooperate. But he decided to go tabloid about it. I don't like that. Every time something like that happens, people tend to exaggerate and make drama about it. It's fucked up IMO, but that's how it works. Now i read things like emailing sponsors - what the fuck? Seriously? Some people have too much free time. You act like this situation concerns you deeply, that it's e-sport you care a lot, but in reality it's not. It's no a LAN party made by friends, it's a business. So let it be a business. Some parties didn't agree and one of it was immature enough to make fuss about it. If all people behaved like that there would be no business in the world. Easy example: Apple sued Samsuns and won over a 1,000,000,000 from them. Even though they still cooperate and Samsung sells it's memore, PCU's or whatever to Apple. It's just business. Oh, and about some claims that 600euro/month is a ripoff and players are fucked in the ass. Some Polish people apparently wrote how you can live as a king for 600e. That's basically bullshit. BUT: 1. We're talking about Warsaw here which is really expensive compared to rest of Poland. 2. This is quite large and high-standard house. Renting that is definitely something like 2000e AT LEAST (i'm not gonna risk my head over that, but it's safe to assume that). 3. There are other things, like prepared meals, coach, internet, water, electricity, blablabla - this costs! 4. Company has to earn it's money. Personally i think 600e/month for opportunity to live in such house is a BARGAIN, and i say it even though i'm Polish and 2500pln (600e) is more than i earn monthly (and more than most people earn). You get to live in a great house, you get great technological standards, apparently only OK food standards (but that's easy to fix), and HUGE opportunities to develop as a player for 600e. Show me a better deal anywhere in the world. LoL, you, sir, are incorrect. 1. There's no misunderstanding so far. 2. The contract is obviously shady and bullshit, and dude, you are the stupid one not him, he tried to have the contract sent to his lawyer to check it, but MoW wouldn't allow it. So what now? The guy did the smart thing by not signing it. 3. WTF do you even mean by he should've taken the money and be done with it? Are you fucking kidding me? There is a seriously shady deal and he's trying to do what's right and let the community know, warn other players..etc. And also, Boss of MoW only offered to refund the money after this guy said he's gonna take it public. Now, that is shady as hell. If MoW is legit, post rebuttals, hell, even post what's in the actual contract, how about that? Obviously they haven't and won't do so, because they would only prove themselves shady. This isn't remotely a witch hunt. If there's an issue, bring it to the light, and let both sides shed their side of the story, discuss..etc. If there's a misunderstanding, then solve it. If not, pick up the pitchforks and tridents.  | ||
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Awesomeness
Germany1361 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:26 Xorphene wrote: Building practice partner networks is free. You can buy coaching from fellow/senior professionals. Charging 600€ a month plus a stream cut is exorbitant. Who are you to say which price is fair and which isn't? Do you really expect the guys who run the house not to want to make profit there? If the players think it's worth it, they will pay 600€. Nobody is forcing anyone to move there. It's a free market, deal with it. | ||
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Leijona
Finland56 Posts
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mazqo
Finland368 Posts
Now he propably felt like cheated or something because he didnt think he would have to stream 150 hours in a month before coming there. He wanted to get the copy of this contract and show it to his lawyer or to someone who could help to understand it, because understanding law text isnt that easy even if its in your own native language, and in this case its foreign language. At this point "Boss" wanted to verify that fuzer indeed wanted to show this to a real lawyer. I dont really understand why they would want to do this. Its not like it would stop fuzer talking about it to a competitor or something like that. If the contract leaks somewhere, they could sue fuzer since he signed NDA. I dont know if its even legal to ask someone to verify his law license in case like this. So thats where the problem started. So if other players dont have any problems with the contract and signed it happily and started streaming 5h/day and dont even care to have lawyer check the contract then they have no problem, obviously. Sure, Fuzer was naive and didnt think to ask the contract before moving to Poland. But its more wrong and unprofessional of MoW not to say these HUGE THINGS which are included in the contract and not to get contract signed before he MOVES TO POLAND. Its also bit dickish and unprofessional to say things like "you have no proof you paid me". So, I hope MoW learns something from this and the "Boss" grows up and acts more professional in situations like this. And MoW improves their PR. | ||
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:31 Awesomeness wrote: Who are you to say which price is fair and which isn't? Do you really expect the guys who run the house not to want to make profit there? If the players think it's worth it, they will pay 600€. Nobody is forcing anyone to move there. It's a free market, deal with it. Get some context. | ||
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Gardel
Mexico220 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:33 Leijona wrote: Is there a way I can hide all posts from Polish people in this thread? The level of discussion would be so much better that way. I agree with you, also that post that the guy with 7 posts made, im 99% sure has something to do with MoW. | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:33 Leijona wrote: Is there a way I can hide all posts from Polish people in this thread? The level of discussion would be so much better that way. I totally agree. All the name calling w/e, and obviously defending MoW in a less than logical manner. Yeh mang, it's pretty obvious who they are. *ahem* | ||
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AlgeriaT
Sweden2197 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:34 Gardel wrote: I agree with you, also that post that the guy with 7 posts made, im 99% sure has something to do with MoW. Right, let's also hide the posts from that Finnish guy with 51 posts of which half are anti MoW and in this thread, I'm 99% sure he has something to do with Fuzer. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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Gardel
Mexico220 Posts
On September 13 2012 11:37 Dodgin wrote: So I read the press release, and it sounds like It's a press release that says nothing. Am I missing something here? Nope, that´s their response. Hope it cleared every doubt you had. | ||
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desarrisc
Canada226 Posts
Even if fuzer was immature in his own respect, I am disappointed that MoW tried to be immature as well by initially trying to not give him his money back. Also the terms of 10 years inability to join other game houses + streaming 5 hrs avg a day + revenue cuts from streams while paying rent of 600 euro monthly, something feels kind of sketchy. It's not as serious as people make it out to be, but still a huge business/publicity misstep on MoW. On the plus side, more people now know what on earth Ministry of Win is. | ||
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