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I thought I had understand until your post Excal.
Excal_Z edit: This ladder change is going to mean that all of the leagues will now become just like Master league (except for showing losses). There will still be divisions of 100 players each, but they'll all be equal and therefore no longer apply hidden offsets.
Therefore, in an ideal environment with the skill of all players evenly distributed across divisions (meaning you don't have Division 1 with all GSL Code S players and Division 2 with all GSL Code B players) and as long as everyone is spending all their bonus pool, what Blizzard says is accurate: rank 1 would roughly equate to the top 1% of the league.
I understand the removing of the tier system, but the way you explain it made me understand that currently, in master league, division system is already meaningful and being top 5 in Master means you are the top 5% of Master League : This is not the case ! because of the "first placed, first joined" division, and some divisions are weaker than others.
I am in a very hard division in Europe ( http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/175728/1/CsTǂShade/ladder/94873#current-rank ) and I would be in top 8 in most other divisions. The only difference is the fact that I got promoted at the at the same time as these other players at the beginning of the season.
The system right now is not "an ideal environment", but let's hope Blizzard will make it happen next season with the "balancing division" system.
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On September 07 2012 16:27 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 16:26 ZwuckeL wrote:
This sounds very shady to me. There is really no way they can accomplish what they wrote in the blog.
The only way that would work is to switch players between divisions, while the season lasts, which makes the purpose of division pretty much obsolete (competing vs only 99 others who you'd recognize by their names).
Another option would be that the initial seeding in the divisions happens according to the rank everyone is internally right then. So each division gets one player out of top1%, top1-2%, top 2-3%, etc. But these rankings could easily switch over the season and could end up in more than 1 player being in the top 1% overall ranking. Thus these guys would have to switch divisions again, while the season is lasting.
I am really curious how blizzard is going to fix this. Why would they need to switch players between divisions if all divisions are equal? Rank 50 in one division is the same as rank 50 in another division of the same league, and vice versa.
Like Excalibur said, they most like just make every league work like master works now.
Right now, divisions are filled by activity. There is always 1 division created at a time, where everyone who does their placement match gets put into. This results in the early divisions are extremely stacked with good players (cause they often do their placements intant after ladder reset). it's common that the first divisions of the season contain more than 25 players with 1500+ rating, where the first one has near grandmaster rating.
whereas a master division created just by now, the first player will have 800 points, the 10th player maybe 200 points.
the very late master divisions created mostly consist of very inactive master players who do at most 5 games per season or diamond players who have just advanced and thus clearely arent as good as the standard master player
After blizzards post, it would mean that the 800point player is on the best 1% of the playerbase which he clearly is not. So they have to also create a new way to populate the divisions.
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On September 07 2012 16:32 Shade_CsT wrote:I thought I had understand until your post Excal. Show nested quote +Excal_Z edit: This ladder change is going to mean that all of the leagues will now become just like Master league (except for showing losses). There will still be divisions of 100 players each, but they'll all be equal and therefore no longer apply hidden offsets.
Therefore, in an ideal environment with the skill of all players evenly distributed across divisions (meaning you don't have Division 1 with all GSL Code S players and Division 2 with all GSL Code B players) and as long as everyone is spending all their bonus pool, what Blizzard says is accurate: rank 1 would roughly equate to the top 1% of the league.
I understand the removing of the tier system, but the way you explain it made me understand that currently, in master league, division system is already meaningful and being top 5 in Master means you are the top 5% of Master League : This is not the case ! because of the "first placed, first joined" division, and some divisions are weaker than others. I am in a very hard division in Europe ( http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/175728/1/CsTǂShade/ladder/94873#current-rank ) and I would be in top 8 in most other divisions. The only difference is the fact that I got promoted at the at the same time as these other players at the beginning of the season. The system right now is not "an ideal environment", but let's hope Blizzard will make it happen next season with the "balancing division" system.
Nothing whatsoever will change to masters league. Just thought I'd point that out. Masters will be the same as it always has been.
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On September 07 2012 16:37 ZwuckeL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 16:27 Tao367 wrote:On September 07 2012 16:26 ZwuckeL wrote:
This sounds very shady to me. There is really no way they can accomplish what they wrote in the blog.
The only way that would work is to switch players between divisions, while the season lasts, which makes the purpose of division pretty much obsolete (competing vs only 99 others who you'd recognize by their names).
Another option would be that the initial seeding in the divisions happens according to the rank everyone is internally right then. So each division gets one player out of top1%, top1-2%, top 2-3%, etc. But these rankings could easily switch over the season and could end up in more than 1 player being in the top 1% overall ranking. Thus these guys would have to switch divisions again, while the season is lasting.
I am really curious how blizzard is going to fix this. Why would they need to switch players between divisions if all divisions are equal? Rank 50 in one division is the same as rank 50 in another division of the same league, and vice versa. Like Excalibur said, they most like just make every league work like master works now. Right now, divisions are filled by activity. There is always 1 division created at a time, where everyone who does their placement match gets put into. This results in the early divisions are extremely stacked with good players (cause they often do their placements intant after ladder reset). it's common that the first divisions of the season contain more than 25 players with 1500+ rating, where the first one has near grandmaster rating. whereas a master division created just by now, the first player will have 800 points, the 10th player maybe 200 points. After blizzards post, it would mean that the 800point player is on the best 1% of the playerbase which he clearly is not. So they have to also create a new way to populate the divisions.
The system isn't perfect, and they said this was a change to lower leagues so I don't think they'll be able to change masters. You have a point, but they never mentioned masters in the blog post.
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On September 07 2012 16:41 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 16:37 ZwuckeL wrote:On September 07 2012 16:27 Tao367 wrote:On September 07 2012 16:26 ZwuckeL wrote:
This sounds very shady to me. There is really no way they can accomplish what they wrote in the blog.
The only way that would work is to switch players between divisions, while the season lasts, which makes the purpose of division pretty much obsolete (competing vs only 99 others who you'd recognize by their names).
Another option would be that the initial seeding in the divisions happens according to the rank everyone is internally right then. So each division gets one player out of top1%, top1-2%, top 2-3%, etc. But these rankings could easily switch over the season and could end up in more than 1 player being in the top 1% overall ranking. Thus these guys would have to switch divisions again, while the season is lasting.
I am really curious how blizzard is going to fix this. Why would they need to switch players between divisions if all divisions are equal? Rank 50 in one division is the same as rank 50 in another division of the same league, and vice versa. Like Excalibur said, they most like just make every league work like master works now. Right now, divisions are filled by activity. There is always 1 division created at a time, where everyone who does their placement match gets put into. This results in the early divisions are extremely stacked with good players (cause they often do their placements intant after ladder reset). it's common that the first divisions of the season contain more than 25 players with 1500+ rating, where the first one has near grandmaster rating. whereas a master division created just by now, the first player will have 800 points, the 10th player maybe 200 points. After blizzards post, it would mean that the 800point player is on the best 1% of the playerbase which he clearly is not. So they have to also create a new way to populate the divisions. The system isn't perfect, and they said this was a change to lower leagues so I don't think they'll be able to change masters. You have a point, but they never mentioned masters in the blog post.
I used masters as an example because Blizzard are going to change every league to work like masters does work now.
This will result in the other leagues behave excatly like masters behaves now. (Subsequent divisions will contain much lower rated players, who will be a lot higher ranked in their division than same-rated players in the older divisions)
By rated i mean their ladder points
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I'm liking the changes. It'll be nice to have a much clearer representation of how close you are to a promotion.
And with season 3/2012 coming to a close, it's time to ladder like a madman!
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Compare these divisions:
I call this division A: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1582414/1/ATǂCENSURE/ladder/leagues
and this division B: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1274090/1/CuteZerg/ladder/leagues
Division A was most likely established very early into the season, Division B quite a lot later.
Now you can see that the first ranked player in B would be only be placed 12th in division A.
B 2nd player would be 14th in A
B 3rd player would be 17th in A
and so on...
this pretty much fails hard at the statement "Place 1 roughly equals top 1% of playerbase"
Though it could be right for the first player in division B, what about the players in divsion A, placed 2-12 ?? According to their rating and compared to the first player of division B, they would also be top 1% of the playerbase. According to blizzards statement though, they are only best 10% of the playerbase.
edit: even bigger is the difference between those divisions' top 50, which would equal to "being top 50% of the playerbase"
Division A Top50 players include all until 1032 ponts.
Division B Top50 players include all unitl 380 points.
So reading blizzard's statement, the player placed 50th in division B would think he is one of the 50% highest rated players in master league. (which he isn't, because the difference between different aged divisions is too big)
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I have 912 points in Diamond, do I finally get into masters next season? 
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It wasn't mentioned in the OP or anywhere else in this thread yet, but they also are adding a new 3v3 map and doing some map shuffling with 3v3 and 4v4 maps:
We’re removing:
(3v3) Arakan Citadel
(3v3) Frontier
(4v4) Extinction
(4v4) Toxic Slums
We’re adding:
(3v3) Silent Dunes (new map)
(3v3) Monsoon
(4v4) High Ground
(4v4) Megaton
Finally a new 3v3 map, would have liked to see a new 4's map too though :/ Can't believe Lava Flow is still in the 4's map pool... and Monsoon was awful, why bring back
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it literally means, rank 100 - 1 is the top %100 to %1 of your rank, bronze all the way to GM. If you are 100 bronze you are literally the worst player in the entire game, along with the other 100's that will exist. We will still have divisions and compete within our division, but it will make going up a rank, from 53 to 52, actually mean something, but it will probably take more work now. So those achievements you got for getting top 8 in your division? well that's going to be very hard to get now.
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so now people can actually say "i'm rank 1 (insert league)" without sounding stupid
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I was hoping for some new maps in 1v1 (metropolis, wirlwind ect) but i am happy with the change to taldarim alter. The map is just terrible for zerg
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who cares about the tier system, i just need to keep playing and winning am i rite 
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Russian Federation1613 Posts
No changes in 1v1 maps
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On September 07 2012 17:34 jinorazi wrote:
so now people can actually say "i'm rank 1 (insert league)" without sounding stupid
If it just means that all leagues will work like Master Leage, then they'll still sound stupid. Being rank 1 in Masters definately doesn't mean you're in the top 1% of Masters players.
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On September 07 2012 10:10 emc wrote:
personally I think the ladder tier removal is a great step forward, now if they could only give us our Wins/Loss ratio back, because not seeing that isn't very transparent either.
well, it's not really that important since it's going to be very close to 50%. And they sort of have given it back already since you can see "games played this season" and how many you've won with the new ui.
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Germany7411 Posts
On September 07 2012 18:05 Jenia6109 wrote:No changes in 1v1 maps
This makes me really sad. We got these maps for waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. We need something new and remove all the old stuff like Taldarim, Shakuras, Antiga, Entombed and finally get some new maps. It's quite annoying to play on the same maps for years now (Taldarim and Shakuras...).
And there are so many good maps flying around.
Abyssal City looks good and also I want at least one map of the ESV anniversary map pack. (At best the 3-player map to finally get something different into the map-pool)
+ Show Spoiler [ESV anniversary map pack] +
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United Kingdom1381 Posts
Monsoon is a great map... unless one of your allies forgets to wall off vs zergs and then you all die because your main has 2 entrances.
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On September 07 2012 18:18 Yello wrote:This makes me really sad. We got these maps for waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. We need something new and remove all the old stuff like Taldarim, Shakuras, Antiga, Entombed and finally get some new maps. It's quite annoying to play on the same maps for years now (Taldarim and Shakuras...). And there are so many good maps flying around. Abyssal City looks good and also I want at least one map of the ESV anniversary map pack. (At best the 3-player map to finally get something different into the map-pool) + Show Spoiler [ESV anniversary map pack] +
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really was hoping for new maps and the removal of taldarim, antiga, contemned and shakuras. now its 3 base all in antiga and veto the other 3 again...
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On September 07 2012 16:59 ZwuckeL wrote:Compare these divisions: I call this division A: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1582414/1/ATǂCENSURE/ladder/leaguesand this division B: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1274090/1/CuteZerg/ladder/leaguesDivision A was most likely established very early into the season, Division B quite a lot later. Now you can see that the first ranked player in B would be only be placed 12th in division A. B 2nd player would be 14th in A B 3rd player would be 17th in A and so on... this pretty much fails hard at the statement "Place 1 roughly equals top 1% of playerbase" Though it could be right for the first player in division B, what about the players in divsion A, placed 2-12 ?? According to their rating and compared to the first player of division B, they would also be top 1% of the playerbase. According to blizzards statement though, they are only best 10% of the playerbase. edit: even bigger is the difference between those divisions' top 50, which would equal to "being top 50% of the playerbase" Division A Top50 players include all until 1032 ponts. Division B Top50 players include all unitl 380 points. So reading blizzard's statement, the player placed 50th in division B would think he is one of the 50% highest rated players in master league. (which he isn't, because the difference between different aged divisions is too big)
You are right, removing "ladder tier" won't fix anything. Blizzard needs to balance divisions or rework the way players enters in division after placement, but it's not the plan, right ? :/ When I first read, I thought they would change it, misplaced joy ?
The Blizzard post needs more explainations.
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EPT
