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Situation Report: August 31, 2012 by David Kim - Page 21
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
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FidoDido
United States1292 Posts
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Resonance
Canada113 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:03 Psychobabas wrote: Might want to have a look at this image: + Show Spoiler + That's interesting, but to really understand what was going on we'll want to compare things to the winrates BEFORE the buff. For all we know, zerg winrates overall actually went down! I mean, they didn't, but all this chart tells us is "zerg wins a lot". What it doesn't tell us is whether or not this was effected by the queen buff. | ||
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Monochromatic
United States1000 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:03 Psychobabas wrote: Might want to have a look at this image: + Show Spoiler + Wow, random really needs a buff... | ||
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reki-
Netherlands327 Posts
On September 01 2012 06:54 Gamegene wrote: lol. ravens are only powerful if you can get to them. it's so easy to just straight out die when you're investing so much money into starports and the raven upgrades, and waiting for enough ravens, and for the ravens to accumulate enough energy to become effective. they're only good in the stagnant position, when both sides are afraid to attack the other. all in all: fuck off david kim. Yea so not fair because a spire, hive and greater spire and building corruptors to broodlords are instant cast :/ | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:10 reki- wrote: Yea so not fair because a spire, hive and greater spire and building corruptors to broodlords are instant cast :/ relative to ravens, broodlord switches are extremely fast, and are actually useful the second you have them. | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:03 Psychobabas wrote: Might want to have a look at this image: + Show Spoiler + I'd ask for someone to do this again using recent data but it would be harder to whine about. Cherry picking data is nice. Especially when you can use things like wcs France, china, usa and new Zealand which were always going to be won by a Zerg. At least this image is less biased than the original | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On September 01 2012 06:54 Derez wrote: By having broodlords to force the infestors to unsiege? I haven't seen IEM, was on vacation, but recent TvZ play (MLG summer, recent GSL) seems to be centered mainly around destroying the zerg before the very lategame. I personally have no real problem with that if winrates are fairly balanced during that time, except that it makes for generic gameplay. That's how PvZ is too... But I would take ravens over a mothership any day when fighting broodlord/infestor. One neural parasite and you lose a mothership, and lose the game, at least you have multiple chances with ravens, even if they have slightly lower range. I hate that the only toss answer is the mothership, that's why I can't wait for HotS Tempests. | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:12 bittman wrote: I'd ask for someone to do this again using recent data but it would be harder to whine about. Cherry picking data is nice. Especially when you can use things like wcs France, china, usa and new Zealand which were always going to be won by a Zerg. At least this image is less biased than the original I agree. Also balance is decided by the top players, not players in masters league or below or even "middling" GM players. The fact Terrans have had a tough time winning tournaments in New Zealand is not meaningful. | ||
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nikoYO
Germany131 Posts
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Frex
Finland888 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:18 The_Darkness wrote: I agree. Also balance is decided by the top players, not players in masters league or below or even "middling" GM players. The fact Terrans have had a tough time winning tournaments in New Zealand is not meaningful. Balance = all races has equal chance at winning and the winner is the one who is more skilled, sometimes of course luck affects the outcome So the fact that terrans in New Zealand are having rougher time than the other races is actually meaningful if we truly want balanced game. | ||
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Naphal
Germany2099 Posts
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Netsky
Australia1155 Posts
They are balancing around the highest level of gameplay - that is GSL Code S (with some influence from Code A I'm sure...and soon to be the OSL/other Korean leagues). Not foreigners, or foreigner tournaments. There wasn't, and current isn't a significant drop in win rates for TvZ, or an under representation of Terran for extended period of time in GSL Code S. Unless something drastically changes in HotS, you are never going to see balanced win rates for Terran foreigners. Terran is significantly harder to play both in terms of mechanics (physical) and strategy (mental) than the other 2 races. Terran is fine, but you need to be at the highest levels of skill. I personally think this isn't a problem, and I don't think they should be balancing the game around foreigners. | ||
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
In the past there have been numerous buffs & nerfs from out of no where or based on a hand full of games. Now he's like oh wait hold on now these few guys are doing okay in a few matches so the game must be balanced. There is no consistency in how he's approached balance... somewhat concerning. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:39 Netsky wrote: Why are people posting links to random foreigner tournament results after the queen buff? This means absolutely nothing. They are balancing around the highest level of gameplay - that is GSL Code S (with some influence from Code A I'm sure...and soon to be the OSL/other Korean leagues). Not foreigners, or foreigner tournaments. There wasn't, and current isn't a significant drop in win rates for TvZ, or an under representation of Terran for extended period of time in GSL Code S. Unless something drastically changes in HotS, you are never going to see balanced win rates for Terran foreigners. Terran is significantly harder to play both in terms of mechanics (physical) and strategy (mental) than the other 2 races. Terran is fine, but you need to be at the highest levels of skill. I personally think this is fine, and I don't think they should be balancing the game around foreigners. "The most interesting tournament in this context was the IEM at gamescom 2012 in Cologne, Germany, where we saw players such as Kas and MVP make use of Ravens in ways that held a lot of potential." They are not balancing around Code S only, and there are numerous examples of this (Thor nerf after Thorzain, etc.) | ||
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kochanfe
Micronesia1338 Posts
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
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pewpew415
United States48 Posts
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Tao367
United Kingdom324 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:52 kochanfe wrote: Mvp and TaeJa are good enough to make TvZ balanced, and the game SHOULD be balanced for the highest level. However, the underlying problem is a little deeper. While the game seems pretty darn balanced at the top level right now, Terran is still MUCH HARDER to actually play than both of the other two races. It seems that in HotS, they are trying to make Terran easier and this is the complete wrong decision. What they should be doing is making Protoss and Zerg HARDER than they are currently. lol User was warned for this post | ||
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