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On September 01 2012 01:16 xrapture wrote:
He truly is clueless. Mvp and Bomber beat some fucking foreigners at IEM and it proves TvZ is balanced? What a joke.
And I'm guessing he didn't even bother to watch MLG.
Sorry for replying to this so late, but, seriously.. we need to create a rule that calls for an instant-ban on everyone who calls David Kim "clueless".. Criticizing his decision is fine, but calling him clueless is just facepalm-worthy.
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Imagine if Blizzard keept patching BW at Flash primetime.
We would end up with marines costing 100 minerals, tanks doing half the damage, and vultures straight up removed lol.
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On September 01 2012 06:30 Vague wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 06:10 Plansix wrote:On September 01 2012 06:01 Vague wrote:
I'm a masters terran, and I'm sick of losing against zerg. I would love a buff. BUT, and this is the big problem blizzard faces, ANY buff they can give terran that could actually help terrans (other than the top Koreans) could be easily abused by Taeja, MVP, Pot, MVP, among others, thereby making them unbeatable. There is no obvious way of making the game balanced for the mortal terrans without making the few top terrans unbeatable. Find a zerg that you think is the same skill level as you, but still stomps you, message him and ask if you can practice against them. Keep doing this and look at your replays until you figure out where the holes in your play are. Become more than mortal. I have no intention to become more than mortal in this game. This is my hobby, not my profession...
Nothing about what I said above requires you to become a professional at the game. You do not need to become as good as Taeja to beat a mid-masters zerg.
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On September 01 2012 06:19 LgNKami wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:15 NOOBALOPSE wrote:On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform. It takes one action to use a seeker missile, and mech doesn't take APM fyi... Not sure if you remember the guy who literally chooses what to use every action on (GoOdy) The thing is though, how do we get in range to use seeker missile if you spam fungal growth?
The same way infestors are able to use fungle growth even though seige tanks out range it?
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It looks like balanced is revolved around mvp and taeja. Great.
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On September 01 2012 06:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 06:30 Vague wrote:On September 01 2012 06:10 Plansix wrote:On September 01 2012 06:01 Vague wrote:
I'm a masters terran, and I'm sick of losing against zerg. I would love a buff. BUT, and this is the big problem blizzard faces, ANY buff they can give terran that could actually help terrans (other than the top Koreans) could be easily abused by Taeja, MVP, Pot, MVP, among others, thereby making them unbeatable. There is no obvious way of making the game balanced for the mortal terrans without making the few top terrans unbeatable. Find a zerg that you think is the same skill level as you, but still stomps you, message him and ask if you can practice against them. Keep doing this and look at your replays until you figure out where the holes in your play are. Become more than mortal. I have no intention to become more than mortal in this game. This is my hobby, not my profession... Nothing about what I said above requires you to become a professional at the game. You do not need to become as good as Taeja to beat a mid-masters zerg.
Oh, we are using the "mortal" metaphor in different ways. By "mortal terrans" I meant all the NA, EU, and most of the KR terrans....
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I lost all faith in blizzard after reading this. After all patches speed nerfing terran often without ptr they say this.. Im off!
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On September 01 2012 06:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 06:21 testthewest wrote:
I think terrans need to find a way to counter Broodlord with ravens. On some maps MVP already pulls it off.
But there should be more waiting.
Remember Toss vs Mutas...they even wanted to make a special anti-unit, but now it is a non-issue.
I think it's the same story with terran vs zerg. From what I have seen, pro terrans have used the raven with HSM to take out infestors, which are the back bone of the late game army. It only takes one or two HSM to do some pretty insane damage to the infestors and the BL without the fungles to back them up.
HSM doesn't do that much damage you need to hit with at least 3 preferably 4 or even more. The splash radius is not very big unless you basically have everything cuddling you won't lose much. You don't even need big splits like against Vortex . Just don't make your units fly through eachother and you are fine.
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"We feel that at this time, we should give players more opportunities to fully explore the slowly-shifting meta-game before we change the balance of the game. We’re seeing a lot more players starting to explore Ravens, and we’d like to see exactly how that goes before making any decisions on balance. The TvZ win ratio has somewhat shifted toward terran, calling a nerf to creep tumor into question."
For all the whiners in this thread: it's all about this part. Meta-game has shifted a bit. Before breaking the game with a patch countering patch, they wait and see what happens on the long run with the old patch. They are open to changes.
In other parts, he tries to explain that these shifts were observed in recent tournaments. Note that he does not say anything about the tvz match-up except that it changes, which is correct, imo. In their eyes, the shift has been in the desired direction and they have postponed short term balance changes. So everyone saying blizzard thinks tvz is balanced because 'mvp and bomber beat some fucking foreigners at iem' as i saw someone post on the 1st page, is just an idiot.
and last, all terran platinum, diamond and masters whiners, the suggested changes were for prolevel, not below that. I don't care how many races avilo has in master, the patch most probably won't be for him.
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Terran non-pros still crying. Still delicious.
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On September 01 2012 06:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 06:19 LgNKami wrote:On September 01 2012 01:15 NOOBALOPSE wrote:On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform. It takes one action to use a seeker missile, and mech doesn't take APM fyi... Not sure if you remember the guy who literally chooses what to use every action on (GoOdy) The thing is though, how do we get in range to use seeker missile if you spam fungal growth? The same way infestors are able to use fungle growth even though seige tanks out range it?
Except siege tanks don't stop movement.
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On September 01 2012 01:14 TheDwf wrote:
So this is how Blizzard decides to balance or not the game? By watching Mvp crushing inferior Zergs then concluding TvZ is OK? How amateurish.
Nestea....
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On September 01 2012 06:19 LgNKami wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:15 NOOBALOPSE wrote:On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform. It takes one action to use a seeker missile, and mech doesn't take APM fyi... Not sure if you remember the guy who literally chooses what to use every action on (GoOdy) The thing is though, how do we get in range to use seeker missile if you spam fungal growth?
Fungal does 30 damage to a raven, which has 140 hp, and costs 75 energy. If he fungals you, you don't shoot a missile, but you don't die either. You shouldn't let more than 1 to 2 ravens get hit by one fungal, and you should prevent Infestors from getting too close by using auto turrets, which are immune to fungal and have range 7, with a build range of 3. Auto turrets are also immune to seeker missiles.
Infestors have very low HP and can be easily zoned out by using Auto turrets, and destroyed outright or chased away by using seeker missiles. All other Zerg AA is incredibly vulnerable to PDD, other than Hydras, which get eaten alive by Marines and Hellions, and Missiles off creep.
I'd still like to see that speed buff.
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Huh how odd. I read this and reacted positively that blizzard were more closely watching the situation. That they're aware the meta and shifts faster than they can patch typically. Most terran players have clearly had an improved shift in tvz over the last month.
But I guess blizzard shouldn't watch the metagame. Just read the blind hate on forums. That's where the real important balance designers and metagame leaders are!
All in all: pretty happy theyre waiting.
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On September 01 2012 01:40 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 01:33 TechNoTrance wrote:On September 01 2012 01:27 TheDwf wrote:On September 01 2012 01:24 TechNoTrance wrote:
People whine when blizz makes changes too quickly without enough testing. People whine when blizz is patient and careful about making changes with a fair amount of testing.
Standard. People complain when Blizzard makes stupid and unnecessary changes to a good match-up. People complain when Blizzard refuses to adress the various problems created by said changes. Fixed. So much bias in one post. Thanks for proving my point. Yep, I guess even pros Zergs stating that Queen buff was unnecessary and made Zerg favored in ZvT are biased towards Terran. Makes a lot of sense.
Who? Stephano says ZvT is 50-50 in his opinion. I'd say he's a pretty high level and qualified person to make that comment.
All we have here are for the most part a bunch of Terran ladder players ranging from very low level to semi-decent bitching about balance... Not really anything constructive going on -- just a lot of David Kim hating and bashing. What's wrong with just letting things play out for several more months before deciding "Terran UP Zerg OP"
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On September 01 2012 06:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 06:19 LgNKami wrote:On September 01 2012 01:15 NOOBALOPSE wrote:On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform. It takes one action to use a seeker missile, and mech doesn't take APM fyi... Not sure if you remember the guy who literally chooses what to use every action on (GoOdy) The thing is though, how do we get in range to use seeker missile if you spam fungal growth? The same way infestors are able to use fungle growth even though seige tanks out range it?
Thats not really the same deal, since Siege Tank attacks aren't spells that immobilize.
The whole immobilization aspect of Fungal Growth just kind of absolutely sucks and is mediocre design, I understand that it probably WON'T be changed assuming HotS isn't a long ways out, but I hope that somewhere down the line spells like Fungal Growth and totally eliminate micro are stripped from the game.
Ravens are fine as a unit until... they're stopped from moving and casting their spells.
Personally I think its fine that Blizzard is taking a more wait-and-see approach to balance, and from what I've seen in the past didn't many people say they'd rather see that than the more frequent patching?
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lol.
ravens are only powerful if you can get to them. it's so easy to just straight out die when you're investing so much money into starports and the raven upgrades, and waiting for enough ravens, and for the ravens to accumulate enough energy to become effective.
they're only good in the stagnant position, when both sides are afraid to attack the other.
all in all: fuck off david kim.
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On September 01 2012 06:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 06:19 LgNKami wrote:On September 01 2012 01:15 NOOBALOPSE wrote:On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform. It takes one action to use a seeker missile, and mech doesn't take APM fyi... Not sure if you remember the guy who literally chooses what to use every action on (GoOdy) The thing is though, how do we get in range to use seeker missile if you spam fungal growth? The same way infestors are able to use fungle growth even though seige tanks out range it?
By having broodlords to force the infestors to unsiege?
I haven't seen IEM, was on vacation, but recent TvZ play (MLG summer, recent GSL) seems to be centered mainly around destroying the zerg before the very lategame. I personally have no real problem with that if winrates are fairly balanced during that time, except that it makes for generic gameplay.
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On September 01 2012 06:47 iEatWoofers wrote:
Terran non-pros still crying. Still delicious.
Just so you know, there are tears from Pros.
MKP tweets it. MVP talks about it in interviews. And goody's one liner interview with hot_bid is immortal, his requested super power was beating zerg.
I am pretty sure Taeja even had some tears along the lines of 'Terrans can't really make mistakes'
You might be trolling, but if you aren't I wanted to correct you.
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Theres a reason why foreign terrans are the worse -_____-
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EPT
