• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:29
CEST 14:29
KST 21:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)44Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!5Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) [D] Wireframe Casting Removed Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format Is the larve respawn broken?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion BW General Discussion Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) Etiquete rules in Asl? Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7945 users

Situation Report: August 31, 2012 by David Kim - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
950 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 48 Next All
Conti
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany2516 Posts
August 31 2012 21:38 GMT
#381
On September 01 2012 01:16 xrapture wrote:
He truly is clueless. Mvp and Bomber beat some fucking foreigners at IEM and it proves TvZ is balanced? What a joke.

And I'm guessing he didn't even bother to watch MLG.

Sorry for replying to this so late, but, seriously.. we need to create a rule that calls for an instant-ban on everyone who calls David Kim "clueless".. Criticizing his decision is fine, but calling him clueless is just facepalm-worthy.
L0thar
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
987 Posts
August 31 2012 21:39 GMT
#382
Imagine if Blizzard keept patching BW at Flash primetime.

We would end up with marines costing 100 minerals, tanks doing half the damage, and vultures straight up removed lol.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2012 21:40 GMT
#383
On September 01 2012 06:30 Vague wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 06:10 Plansix wrote:
On September 01 2012 06:01 Vague wrote:
I'm a masters terran, and I'm sick of losing against zerg. I would love a buff. BUT, and this is the big problem blizzard faces, ANY buff they can give terran that could actually help terrans (other than the top Koreans) could be easily abused by Taeja, MVP, Pot, MVP, among others, thereby making them unbeatable. There is no obvious way of making the game balanced for the mortal terrans without making the few top terrans unbeatable.


Find a zerg that you think is the same skill level as you, but still stomps you, message him and ask if you can practice against them. Keep doing this and look at your replays until you figure out where the holes in your play are. Become more than mortal.


I have no intention to become more than mortal in this game. This is my hobby, not my profession...


Nothing about what I said above requires you to become a professional at the game. You do not need to become as good as Taeja to beat a mid-masters zerg.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 31 2012 21:41 GMT
#384
On September 01 2012 06:19 LgNKami wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:15 NOOBALOPSE wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

It takes one action to use a seeker missile, and mech doesn't take APM fyi... Not sure if you remember the guy who literally chooses what to use every action on (GoOdy)

The thing is though, how do we get in range to use seeker missile if you spam fungal growth?


The same way infestors are able to use fungle growth even though seige tanks out range it?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Qntc.YuMe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States792 Posts
August 31 2012 21:42 GMT
#385
It looks like balanced is revolved around mvp and taeja. Great.
Vague
Profile Joined April 2011
170 Posts
August 31 2012 21:44 GMT
#386
On September 01 2012 06:40 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 06:30 Vague wrote:
On September 01 2012 06:10 Plansix wrote:
On September 01 2012 06:01 Vague wrote:
I'm a masters terran, and I'm sick of losing against zerg. I would love a buff. BUT, and this is the big problem blizzard faces, ANY buff they can give terran that could actually help terrans (other than the top Koreans) could be easily abused by Taeja, MVP, Pot, MVP, among others, thereby making them unbeatable. There is no obvious way of making the game balanced for the mortal terrans without making the few top terrans unbeatable.


Find a zerg that you think is the same skill level as you, but still stomps you, message him and ask if you can practice against them. Keep doing this and look at your replays until you figure out where the holes in your play are. Become more than mortal.


I have no intention to become more than mortal in this game. This is my hobby, not my profession...


Nothing about what I said above requires you to become a professional at the game. You do not need to become as good as Taeja to beat a mid-masters zerg.

Oh, we are using the "mortal" metaphor in different ways. By "mortal terrans" I meant all the NA, EU, and most of the KR terrans....
OyvN
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway15 Posts
August 31 2012 21:45 GMT
#387
I lost all faith in blizzard after reading this. After all patches speed nerfing terran often without ptr they say this.. Im off!
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
August 31 2012 21:46 GMT
#388
On September 01 2012 06:25 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 06:21 testthewest wrote:
I think terrans need to find a way to counter Broodlord with ravens. On some maps MVP already pulls it off.
But there should be more waiting.
Remember Toss vs Mutas...they even wanted to make a special anti-unit, but now it is a non-issue.
I think it's the same story with terran vs zerg.


From what I have seen, pro terrans have used the raven with HSM to take out infestors, which are the back bone of the late game army. It only takes one or two HSM to do some pretty insane damage to the infestors and the BL without the fungles to back them up.


HSM doesn't do that much damage you need to hit with at least 3 preferably 4 or even more. The splash radius is not very big unless you basically have everything cuddling you won't lose much. You don't even need big splits like against Vortex . Just don't make your units fly through eachother and you are fine.
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
August 31 2012 21:47 GMT
#389
"We feel that at this time, we should give players more opportunities to fully explore the slowly-shifting meta-game before we change the balance of the game. We’re seeing a lot more players starting to explore Ravens, and we’d like to see exactly how that goes before making any decisions on balance. The TvZ win ratio has somewhat shifted toward terran, calling a nerf to creep tumor into question."

For all the whiners in this thread: it's all about this part. Meta-game has shifted a bit. Before breaking the game with a patch countering patch, they wait and see what happens on the long run with the old patch. They are open to changes.

In other parts, he tries to explain that these shifts were observed in recent tournaments. Note that he does not say anything about the tvz match-up except that it changes, which is correct, imo. In their eyes, the shift has been in the desired direction and they have postponed short term balance changes. So everyone saying blizzard thinks tvz is balanced because 'mvp and bomber beat some fucking foreigners at iem' as i saw someone post on the 1st page, is just an idiot.

and last, all terran platinum, diamond and masters whiners, the suggested changes were for prolevel, not below that. I don't care how many races avilo has in master, the patch most probably won't be for him.
iEatWoofers
Profile Joined August 2011
Switzerland108 Posts
August 31 2012 21:47 GMT
#390
Terran non-pros still crying. Still delicious.
Tao367
Profile Joined June 2012
United Kingdom324 Posts
August 31 2012 21:48 GMT
#391
On September 01 2012 06:41 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 06:19 LgNKami wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:15 NOOBALOPSE wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

It takes one action to use a seeker missile, and mech doesn't take APM fyi... Not sure if you remember the guy who literally chooses what to use every action on (GoOdy)

The thing is though, how do we get in range to use seeker missile if you spam fungal growth?


The same way infestors are able to use fungle growth even though seige tanks out range it?


Except siege tanks don't stop movement.
Damnight
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany222 Posts
August 31 2012 21:50 GMT
#392
On September 01 2012 01:14 TheDwf wrote:
So this is how Blizzard decides to balance or not the game? By watching Mvp crushing inferior Zergs then concluding TvZ is OK? How amateurish.


Nestea....
LavaLava
Profile Joined January 2012
United States235 Posts
August 31 2012 21:51 GMT
#393
On September 01 2012 06:19 LgNKami wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:15 NOOBALOPSE wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

It takes one action to use a seeker missile, and mech doesn't take APM fyi... Not sure if you remember the guy who literally chooses what to use every action on (GoOdy)

The thing is though, how do we get in range to use seeker missile if you spam fungal growth?



Fungal does 30 damage to a raven, which has 140 hp, and costs 75 energy. If he fungals you, you don't shoot a missile, but you don't die either. You shouldn't let more than 1 to 2 ravens get hit by one fungal, and you should prevent Infestors from getting too close by using auto turrets, which are immune to fungal and have range 7, with a build range of 3. Auto turrets are also immune to seeker missiles.

Infestors have very low HP and can be easily zoned out by using Auto turrets, and destroyed outright or chased away by using seeker missiles. All other Zerg AA is incredibly vulnerable to PDD, other than Hydras, which get eaten alive by Marines and Hellions, and Missiles off creep.

I'd still like to see that speed buff.
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
August 31 2012 21:51 GMT
#394
Huh how odd. I read this and reacted positively that blizzard were more closely watching the situation. That they're aware the meta and shifts faster than they can patch typically. Most terran players have clearly had an improved shift in tvz over the last month.

But I guess blizzard shouldn't watch the metagame. Just read the blind hate on forums. That's where the real important balance designers and metagame leaders are!

All in all: pretty happy theyre waiting.
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
FallDownMarigold
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3710 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-31 21:54:20
August 31 2012 21:52 GMT
#395
On September 01 2012 01:40 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 01:33 TechNoTrance wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:27 TheDwf wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:24 TechNoTrance wrote:
People whine when blizz makes changes too quickly without enough testing. People whine when blizz is patient and careful about making changes with a fair amount of testing.

Standard.

People complain when Blizzard makes stupid and unnecessary changes to a good match-up. People complain when Blizzard refuses to adress the various problems created by said changes.

Fixed.


So much bias in one post. Thanks for proving my point.

Yep, I guess even pros Zergs stating that Queen buff was unnecessary and made Zerg favored in ZvT are biased towards Terran. Makes a lot of sense.


Who? Stephano says ZvT is 50-50 in his opinion. I'd say he's a pretty high level and qualified person to make that comment.

All we have here are for the most part a bunch of Terran ladder players ranging from very low level to semi-decent bitching about balance... Not really anything constructive going on -- just a lot of David Kim hating and bashing. What's wrong with just letting things play out for several more months before deciding "Terran UP Zerg OP"
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
August 31 2012 21:53 GMT
#396
On September 01 2012 06:41 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 06:19 LgNKami wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:15 NOOBALOPSE wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

It takes one action to use a seeker missile, and mech doesn't take APM fyi... Not sure if you remember the guy who literally chooses what to use every action on (GoOdy)

The thing is though, how do we get in range to use seeker missile if you spam fungal growth?


The same way infestors are able to use fungle growth even though seige tanks out range it?


Thats not really the same deal, since Siege Tank attacks aren't spells that immobilize.

The whole immobilization aspect of Fungal Growth just kind of absolutely sucks and is mediocre design, I understand that it probably WON'T be changed assuming HotS isn't a long ways out, but I hope that somewhere down the line spells like Fungal Growth and totally eliminate micro are stripped from the game.

Ravens are fine as a unit until... they're stopped from moving and casting their spells.

Personally I think its fine that Blizzard is taking a more wait-and-see approach to balance, and from what I've seen in the past didn't many people say they'd rather see that than the more frequent patching?
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
August 31 2012 21:54 GMT
#397
lol.

ravens are only powerful if you can get to them. it's so easy to just straight out die when you're investing so much money into starports and the raven upgrades, and waiting for enough ravens, and for the ravens to accumulate enough energy to become effective.

they're only good in the stagnant position, when both sides are afraid to attack the other.

all in all: fuck off david kim.
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-31 21:56:11
August 31 2012 21:54 GMT
#398
On September 01 2012 06:41 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 06:19 LgNKami wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:15 NOOBALOPSE wrote:
On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote:
Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform.

It takes one action to use a seeker missile, and mech doesn't take APM fyi... Not sure if you remember the guy who literally chooses what to use every action on (GoOdy)

The thing is though, how do we get in range to use seeker missile if you spam fungal growth?


The same way infestors are able to use fungle growth even though seige tanks out range it?

By having broodlords to force the infestors to unsiege?

I haven't seen IEM, was on vacation, but recent TvZ play (MLG summer, recent GSL) seems to be centered mainly around destroying the zerg before the very lategame. I personally have no real problem with that if winrates are fairly balanced during that time, except that it makes for generic gameplay.
1handsomE
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States199 Posts
August 31 2012 21:55 GMT
#399
On September 01 2012 06:47 iEatWoofers wrote:
Terran non-pros still crying. Still delicious.


Just so you know, there are tears from Pros.

MKP tweets it. MVP talks about it in interviews. And goody's one liner interview with hot_bid is immortal, his requested super power was beating zerg.

I am pretty sure Taeja even had some tears along the lines of 'Terrans can't really make mistakes'

You might be trolling, but if you aren't I wanted to correct you.
MarineKing / Jaedong / DeMusliM / SeleCT / Maru hwaiting!
Mindflow
Profile Joined November 2010
Korea (South)320 Posts
August 31 2012 22:01 GMT
#400
Theres a reason why foreign terrans are the worse -_____-
Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 48 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
12:00
Summer Cup 2026 - Group A
WardiTV434
LiquipediaDiscussion
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Master Swan Open #105
CranKy Ducklings60
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko471
Rex 101
BRAT_OK 75
MindelVK 31
RushiSC 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 6824
Rain 2518
Shuttle 2013
Jaedong 911
firebathero 901
Horang2 576
Hyuk 467
Mini 390
BeSt 386
Larva 206
[ Show more ]
Rush 196
Stork 177
ZerO 154
Last 151
Hyun 117
hero 115
ggaemo 80
Pusan 76
Sharp 72
Killer 67
Mong 61
JYJ 43
ZergMaN 41
Free 41
JulyZerg 39
Aegong 37
soO 33
Shine 32
sorry 29
Movie 25
Barracks 18
yabsab 18
Hm[arnc] 18
HiyA 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Noble 9
IntoTheRainbow 9
Yoon 4
Dota 2
Gorgc5525
XcaliburYe235
League of Legends
Doublelift2630
Counter-Strike
byalli1216
allub254
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr18
Other Games
gofns18157
singsing1638
B2W.Neo757
RotterdaM179
XaKoH 121
ZerO(Twitch)5
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2333
BasetradeTV157
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• epiclan20
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP16
• musti20045 16
• Adnapsc2 12
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 3
• FT.aCt)Sony1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2675
Upcoming Events
Epic.LAN
32m
IPSL
3h 32m
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
20h 32m
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
21h 32m
OSC
1d
IPSL
1d 3h
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
1d 22h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W3
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.