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On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here?
So what would you do in ESF's shoes?
Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be?
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While you accuse KeSPA of trying to make a monopoly and 'powerplaying' against GomTV, consider the possible scenarios for both sides.
If KeSPA cooperates with GSL and becomes more active outside of their own leagues, chances are overall viewership and fan numbers increase, giving their own leagues and players more exposure = happy sponsors, plus a chance at new sponsorship deals - which they could use, at least for T8. Their partner, OGN, might lose a small amount of online viewers due to people choosing to watch GSL over OSL/PL, but since traditionally their primary viewer base comes from the TV channel which is absolutely uncontested, and since they have such a strong infrastructure in place where they can provide best produced content in the business, it's more likely that they would gain more viewers from current SC2 fanbase.
They do have to consider prestige and condition of their players - they risk losing the interest of ex-BW fans if we continue to see players like Flash, Bisu, Jaedong et all showing poor (read: not owning the shit out of everyone) results in many tournaments. For teams that always focused on heavy preparation for games, and are still learning a new game, it is difficult to participate in multiple events so soon after the switch (really, the switch isn't even completed as they still play BW as well).
If they do NOT cooperate with GSL / international scene... even with GSL players playing in OGN's leagues, they have very little to gain. Sure, you're going to see an increase in international / online viewers (people want to see the rivalry), but remember their traditional viewer base comes from the TV channel, and these numbers aren't going to be affected much either way. The stuff about having 'pressure' and 'leverage' on GomTV is pretty much a bunch of jibber-jabber. It's nice to have a monopoly, but in this situation it's simply not worth it for them. After all, their income comes from representing sponsors - which they do regardless whether the tourney is shown on OnGameNet or through Gretech's GomTV or anywhere else.
There really aren't any reasons for KeSPA to simply refuse to cooperate with GomTV - it wouldn't make any sense, and despite whatever questionable decisions KeSPA executives may have done in the past, they aren't stupid people, and they do have plenty of experience with this kind of stuff. They aren't going to just shoot themselves in the foot to 'fuck with GomTV'. They well might take things slower and in a different fashion than GomTV ideally would like to see it - but an open feud with Gom or eSF doesn't benefit them in any way.
On the other side of things, you have eSF. Most of their players' income comes from tournament winnings, and now there is a large number of players who train harder than anyone else in the scene does, and have plenty of talent to boot. At first it might look exciting - taking on a new competition surely is fun, and triumphing over the old BW legends is something many of these players dreamt of. On the other hand, sooner or later they had to realize that these players are a direct threat to their primary source of income. eSF has literally nothing to gain from KeSPA players actively becoming a part of the scene. There's no way potential new sponsorships and increase in viewer numbers can outweigh the massive influx of new and potentially very dangerous competitors. Best thing that can happen for eSF is for KeSPA to stick to their own leagues, or for its players disappear forever.
I don't know, to me it seems like eSF are the ones most interested in continued conflict, and it would make perfect sense for them to come out with unreasonable demands that they KNOW KeSPA will not and cannot meet. It is absolutely in eSF's interest to make KeSPA look bad, while KeSPA really shouldn't care much at all about eSF's image etc. If I had to guess who is more likely to be trying to play bad politics here, my money would be on eSF.
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On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be?
Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic.
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On August 26 2012 06:54 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be? Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic.
Yeh, the GOM players have absolutely nothing to complain about with the current situation.
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super smart on the esf side. if they dont exercise muscle while their players are still able to evenly compete with kespa then they would drop into obscurity.
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On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here?
I think the thing is that "ESF players" only joined the OSL with the thought that there was a shared and mutual cooperation, that Kespa players would in turn join the GSL at the same time. I mean, that only seems reasonable.
So while I do agree that withdrawing during the tournament is fairly wrong, if it's because of Kespa backing out of previous agreements, which seems to be fairly obvious just by reasoning, I think it's more or less even, if not more in favor ESF, if only because they hadn't been the one to instigate.
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On August 26 2012 06:56 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:54 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be? Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic. Yeh, the GOM players have absolutely nothing to complain about with the current situation.
GOM is less attractive with only ESF players compared to KeSPA and ESF players in KeSPA. They fear KeSPA controlling the industry due to that because they finally have freedom in SC2 to go to whatever tournament their team allows them to be sent to. In KeSPA you don't have that option. You can't go international.
You think they want KeSPA monopolizing SC2 at that cost?
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In my opinion, I believe this is worst for ESF and GOM. Simply because Kespa players are more like celebrities in Korea whereas GOM players are looked at as amature. Especially, since Kespa has already marketed themselves by participating in WCS and showing that after 3 1/2 months while simutanously and concurrently practicing two games, their players are on par with GOMs code S players. In other words, Kespa players will eventually surpass that of GOM. Kespas dual game play strategy (playing BW and SC2 concurrently) might seem stupid to some, but I believe that on the marketing side, it is pure genius. Simply because they are slowly drifting the Brood War fans into SC2 even though it might not seem like the prettiest way. So, all the fans of Brood War will continue to root and watch their favorite players on a new platform regardless if they are featured in GSL or not. In terms of Korean respect (in my opinion, I apologize if I generalize) but OSL > GSL. ESF should have kept their players in the OSL for marketing purposes that way some of their players can get some exposure from the Brood War korean scene. WCS was still a GOM event which means that a lot of the ex brood war players and fans might not have even watched it, but that will not be the case with OSL.
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On August 26 2012 07:03 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:56 Holgerius wrote:On August 26 2012 06:54 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be? Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic. Yeh, the GOM players have absolutely nothing to complain about with the current situation. GOM is less attractive with only ESF players compared to KeSPA and ESF players in KeSPA. They fear KeSPA controlling the industry due to that because they finally have freedom in SC2 to go to whatever tournament their team allows them to be sent to. In KeSPA you don't have that option. You can't go international. You think they want KeSPA monopolizing SC2 at that cost?
It's not really possible to monopolize Sc2 when everybody knows that GSL-players are still one level above Kepsa players (which they are, despite the elephant herd running wild in WCS). I will, depsite being Kespa fanboy (as in supporting their players (not supporting their organisation)), keep on watching GSL Code S because it has the highest level of SC2 in it.
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On August 26 2012 06:54 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be? Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic.
Good luck playing in any other tournaments outside Korea, lol no, you gotta prepare for SPL.
You kept letting KeSPA do what they wanted you to do, and now you're back being a slave, not able to do whatever you want with your career. GOM has gone bankrupt because KeSPA was left unchecked and do whatever dirty but legit business tactics, ESF's existence became meaningless.
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On August 26 2012 06:54 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be? Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic.
and then soon you will only get to play in the OSL as you have to rejoin Kespa teams becaues ESF falls apart without GOM
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As far as Kespa players going to foreign or other Korean teams (outside of Kespa)...That will definitely NOT HAPPEN. Even Hiya himself has mentioned that the teams outside of Kespa are "crazy". Being on a Kespa team is like a security blanket to them. They feel safe and comfortable there regardless of the hard work they have to put in because they are guaranteed a salary, gaming house, and much more.
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On August 26 2012 07:08 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:54 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be? Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic. Good luck playing in any other tournaments outside Korea, lol no, you gotta prepare for SPL.
ESF players have to prepare for SPL?
On August 26 2012 07:09 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:54 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be? Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic. and then soon you will only get to play in the OSL as you have to rejoin Kespa teams becaues ESF falls apart without GOM
Where did GOM suddenly go?
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On August 26 2012 07:07 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 07:03 Femari wrote:On August 26 2012 06:56 Holgerius wrote:On August 26 2012 06:54 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be? Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic. Yeh, the GOM players have absolutely nothing to complain about with the current situation. GOM is less attractive with only ESF players compared to KeSPA and ESF players in KeSPA. They fear KeSPA controlling the industry due to that because they finally have freedom in SC2 to go to whatever tournament their team allows them to be sent to. In KeSPA you don't have that option. You can't go international. You think they want KeSPA monopolizing SC2 at that cost? It's not really possible to monopolize Sc2 when everybody knows that GSL-players are still one level above Kepsa players (which they are, despite the elephant herd running wild in WCS). I will, depsite being Kespa fanboy (as in supporting their players (not supporting their organisation)), keep on watching GSL Code S because it has the highest level of SC2 in it.
The question is how long will that last? Also, we cannot say that for sure anymore simply because we have not had a full Kespa vs GOM. We have seen only a snippet (that being WCS).
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On August 26 2012 06:54 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be? Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic.
The mixed KeSPA vs eSF tournament is a big chance for the influx of interest and that is the cake. Previously both parties agreed that they would share the cake but now KeSPA said "We will be the only ones getting the cake you will maybe get it somewhere someday but even that isnt sure"
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On August 26 2012 07:07 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 07:03 Femari wrote:On August 26 2012 06:56 Holgerius wrote:On August 26 2012 06:54 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be? Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic. Yeh, the GOM players have absolutely nothing to complain about with the current situation. GOM is less attractive with only ESF players compared to KeSPA and ESF players in KeSPA. They fear KeSPA controlling the industry due to that because they finally have freedom in SC2 to go to whatever tournament their team allows them to be sent to. In KeSPA you don't have that option. You can't go international. You think they want KeSPA monopolizing SC2 at that cost? It's not really possible to monopolize Sc2 when everybody knows that GSL-players are still one level above Kepsa players (which they are, despite the elephant herd running wild in WCS). I will, depsite being Kespa fanboy (as in supporting their players (not supporting their organisation)), keep on watching GSL Code S because it has the highest level of SC2 in it.
They might be above them but KeSPA is already on a Code S level with some of their players. They have a winning record vs GSL players. All the talk has always been about how the B-teamers have been the top SC2 players and how Flash, Bisu, Jaedong, etc will dominate in time. They have the bigger fan legion. They have more money. They have the legacy and power. They have the big names. Hell BoxeR is on SKT1 now.
It is silly to think they cannot monopolize it in Korea. The power of SC2 is international. KeSPA owns Korea.
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What's to kespa from going, "oh our players are too busy to play in gsl 5,6,7,8...etc." Def a good move on esf part. Remember, kespa is the one joining a new scene, the should be the ones forced to adapt.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
"GSL" players may show better results now, but everyone knows that they are inferior in talent and potential etc etc. nobody who has any idea of starcraft would care for a league that excludes the best players in the world.
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On August 26 2012 07:07 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 07:03 Femari wrote:On August 26 2012 06:56 Holgerius wrote:On August 26 2012 06:54 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:51 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 06:44 oBlade wrote:On August 26 2012 06:38 mrtomjones wrote:On August 26 2012 06:36 Holgerius wrote:
I do understand that they have to make some kind of stand against Kespa, but is it really necessary to wreck the oldest and most prestigeous (despite it being a new game) tournament in all of Esports to do it? Well I assume that in their eyes Kespa is wrecking the most prestigious SC2 tournament with their actions. Saying ahead of time your players won't go to the qualifiers of a tournament that has been fine for two years versus holding the OSL hostage by withdrawing half the players in the middle of it, who's really causing damage here? So what would you do in ESF's shoes? Just follow along like a bunch of good "dishwashers" they used to be? Why would I need to do anything? I'd get to play in the OSL and GSL; I'd be ecstatic. Yeh, the GOM players have absolutely nothing to complain about with the current situation. GOM is less attractive with only ESF players compared to KeSPA and ESF players in KeSPA. They fear KeSPA controlling the industry due to that because they finally have freedom in SC2 to go to whatever tournament their team allows them to be sent to. In KeSPA you don't have that option. You can't go international. You think they want KeSPA monopolizing SC2 at that cost? It's not really possible to monopolize Sc2 when everybody knows that GSL-players are still one level above Kepsa players (which they are, despite the elephant herd running wild in WCS). I will, depsite being Kespa fanboy (as in supporting their players (not supporting their organisation)), keep on watching GSL Code S because it has the highest level of SC2 in it.
I believe it can be in Korea but not outside of it. In due time, Kespa will monopolize it (inside of Korea). Keep in mind, being on a Kespa team holds a lot of weight and brings their players the "celebrity factor".
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the question many of you seem to not want to touch on is why kespa is such a big issue. according to many of you, SC2 already has many 'premier ' leagues existing, notably including the gsl. that exactly is the issue, is that many of you are focusing solely on SC2. if there is no kespa in sc2, the scene will continue just as it has for the past two years where there has been no kespa. yet for the past week it seems to be a huge issue! that is because kespa+ogn go far beyond just sc2. this is where the power lies in kespa's court. kespa+ogn carry with it sheer brand power. especially considering starcraft's osl and proleague. and not to mention the many other games they broadcast. those of you who have followed LoL on ogn know very well the success they have had.
kespa+ogn basically have nothing to lose if their players do not participate in the gsl, nor if esf players do not participate in the osl/proleague.
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EPT
