builds do not make someone a better player.

learning to adapt, read, react backed by mechanic does.

why is this hard to understand?

you cant open ffe with 100% certainty, boohoo. learn to play with more than one build, treat random as 4th race for the first 3 minutes.

ladder is not for match up practice, stop treating it like so.

if someone got personal grief with random, thats fine but stop trying to rationalize it because you cant.

Farmer Poopy

258 Posts

August 22 2012 22:58 GMT

#62

Random diamond player here,

This is the main reason I started telling people my race in the beginning of the game. You can do some really abusive stuff that doesn't follow meta since the enemy doesn't know your race. I know at one point (before I started telling me race) in ZvP I would hatch first, and then send a fast scouting drone to steal their second gas. Normally this wouldn't be a problem because they would be going FFE, but they didn't, because they didn't know my race, then I just mass lings so they can never take their natural. (since I took their second gas they won't have enough sentries).

EDIT: If you don't tell people your race you'll have trouble if you decide to pick a race and play since they will play a different meta is what I'm trying to say, even if you get good at the "random" meta

c0ldfusion

United States8293 Posts

August 22 2012 22:59 GMT

#63

But but, you have to play random to get that sick templar portrait...

aviator116

United States820 Posts

August 22 2012 22:59 GMT

#64

lol actually re-reading the OP and some of the posts trying to support it just makes we want to buy a new account, fail all my placement matches so i can get in bronze, and start cheesing as random every single game so people QQ more. Or better yet, macro, and induce more rage that somebody understands all three races better than they understand one.

Wait there's portraits for winning as random? Wow, shit just got serious, new goal in SC2...

RiSkysc2

696 Posts

August 22 2012 23:00 GMT

#65

Why you shouldn't tell people what to do:

Because people should do what they want to do.

These type of posts really bug me......

ensign_lee

United States1178 Posts

August 22 2012 23:01 GMT

#66

Your post is the same as saying "you can't learn tvz by playing Protoss." sub "random" for Protoss. You learn a different meta game. It's not necessarily a bad one.

sour_eraser

Canada932 Posts

August 22 2012 23:02 GMT

#67

Apparently, these days people like to play Robotcraft
Doing same build vs a matchup over and over. If a opponent does something out of usual build
It instantly becomes "unfair".....
To get better, you should learn to adapt instead of QQing about how you can't be a robot and do the same build.

ishyishy

United States826 Posts

August 22 2012 23:02 GMT

#68

On August 23 2012 07:59 aviator116 wrote:
lol actually re-reading the OP and some of the posts trying to support it just makes we want to buy a new account, fail all my placement matches so i can get in bronze, and start cheesing as random every single game so people QQ more. Or better yet, macro, and induce more rage that somebody understands all three races better than they understand one.

Playing in lower leagues is actually pretty entertaining. I love completely owning people. Seeing people rage out is 100x more entertaining than the game itself :D

dUTtrOACh

Canada2339 Posts

August 22 2012 23:05 GMT

#69

Odd line of reasoning. I think that by playing random you create exactly those types of awkward situations for your opponent that defy the normal metagame. If protoss can't FFE against you isn't that more of an advantage? Granted, practicing the standard ZvP isn't going to happen, but that shouldn't be your primary concern as a random player, because you're not picking zerg. You're picking random. You're not necessarily picking random for matchup specific practice but rather, for practice as random. If you're winning more as random than you would picking a specific race, then it's giving you a type of advantage that you didn't have before. I don't see how that's a bad thing. It just seems to be the case that random has its own metagame since games unfold in a different manner than they would otherwise.

fireproofazn

United States231 Posts

August 22 2012 23:07 GMT

#70

all random haters are just jelly our wide variety of portraits to choose from.

and everyone need calm down and understand that we play random because this a video game and we want to play with all 3 races.

ishyishy

United States826 Posts

August 22 2012 23:12 GMT

#71

On August 23 2012 08:05 dUTtrOACh wrote:
Odd line of reasoning. I think that by playing random you create exactly those types of awkward situations for your opponent that defy the normal metagame. If protoss can't FFE against you isn't that more of an advantage? Granted, practicing the standard ZvP isn't going to happen, but that shouldn't be your primary concern as a random player, because you're not picking zerg. You're picking random. You're not necessarily picking random for matchup specific practice but rather, for practice as random. If you're winning more as random than you would picking a specific race, then it's giving you a type of advantage that you didn't have before. I don't see how that's a bad thing. It just seems to be the case that random has its own metagame since games unfold in a different manner than they would otherwise.

It's like....some protoss guy wants to play 100% standard with 0 surprises. What advantage do you have when you do that? If your opponent knows what you are doing, doesnt that put you in a worse spot? Oh and this is possible because every player has a style, and if you get to high masters or GM, people start to catch on and abuse your style.

I played magic the gathering for 11 years. We had metagames. The metagame was followed, for the most part...until someone did something different, and it worked. Suddenly, over the corse of a week, the metagame would shift, and everyone would have to adapt, or risk losing because you are using old technology. Having a set, determined, constant metagame makes games (whether card, board, or video) stail and boring. Just imagine forge FE'ing against zerg for 11 years...it would be torture.

BlueEagle

United Kingdom75 Posts

August 22 2012 23:13 GMT

#72

Did we really need another thread on this? Some people can't decide on a race, realise they can't be good enough to go pro, or don't want to, or, hell, I don't know, just want to play the damn game? Seems like there's a lot of people seem to think they know what's best for people. You don't. Stop fucking telling people how to play. They aren't maphacking for God's sake, they're using a feature that's built into the game.

GolemMadness

Canada11044 Posts

August 22 2012 23:14 GMT

#73

I'm not going to become a progamer. I get plenty of games where normal builds are used on both sides anyways. This is dumb.

Eps

Canada240 Posts

August 22 2012 23:14 GMT

#74

Loading screen shows random. I SCV scout on 10, problem solved.
There's too much complaints about players saying they're playing "sub-optimally" against Randoms.

A few seconds knocked off your build from an early scout isn't going to wreck your entire build.

jakethesnake

Canada4948 Posts

August 22 2012 23:15 GMT

#75

I basically read the OP as 'why you shouldn't be having fun playing the ladder'. My response is still the same - I'll play how I want to play and I don't care what other people think I should be doing. Like most people on TL, I'm not not, nor will I ever be pro - so why should I care about pretending that I am/will be? I just want to enjoy the game.

Mrvoodoochild1

United States1439 Posts

August 22 2012 23:17 GMT

#76

Don't tell me what to do. I payed 60 dollars for the game, I will play it how I want. Why do people think it's ok to make OPs like this? 99% of the sc2 player base is casual players. By your logic people should stop playing 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 because they arnt experiencing the real meta game. SC2 is a game and I want to enjoy it. If I get my fun by playing rand then that's all that matters because i'm a casual player. But don't tell me how I can and can't enjoy a game that I payed for.

-NegativeZero-

United States2142 Posts

August 22 2012 23:18 GMT

#77

If you really want to improve properly at all 3 races by playing random, you could always just tell your opponent your race at the start. There's really no problem here.

ishyishy

United States826 Posts

August 22 2012 23:18 GMT

#78

On August 23 2012 08:14 Eps wrote:
Loading screen shows random. I SCV scout on 10, problem solved.
There's too much complaints about players saying they're playing "sub-optimally" against Randoms.

A few seconds knocked off your build from an early scout isn't going to wreck your entire build.

For the protoss that think they cant win without Forge FE'ing, knowing the opponents race is the only thing that matters before the game starts lol. Those people are close-minded and probably really arrogant, but it happens. Pylon placement is 100% relevant for those people, unfortunately.

ishyishy

United States826 Posts

August 22 2012 23:22 GMT

#79

On August 23 2012 08:17 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
Don't tell me what to do. I payed 60 dollars for the game, I will play it how I want. Why do people think it's ok to make OPs like this? 99% of the sc2 player base is casual players. By your logic people should stop playing 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 because they arnt experiencing the real meta game. SC2 is a game and I want to enjoy it. If I get my fun by playing rand then that's all that matters because i'm a casual player. But don't tell me how I can and can't enjoy a game that I payed for.

They think it's ok because, for some reason, they think everyone else in the world shares the same opinion about everything, and maybe they could gain fame if 500,000 people rally and protest blizzard. Not even joking. lol.

Fyrewolf

United States1533 Posts

August 22 2012 23:29 GMT

#80

This argument can only work if there is one and ONLY one viable way to play a matchup. Since there are many viable ways to approach each matchup, "standard" is a highly relative term that encompasses multiple styles. You can learn about the matchup from any game just fine regardless of the opener, including practicing/learning relative timings, mechanics, scouting, everything else, etc. If you are trying argue for practicing/learning to perfect a specific build for a specific matchup and complaining that ladder isn't giving you that specific matchup, well that's what practice partners are for, so it's entirely moot.