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On August 23 2012 06:58 BloodNinja wrote:
I play random because its fun and I play to have fun. So why shouldn't I play random and have fun? Why exactly should I care about the metagame? Its not like I plan on going pro (or even hitting GM on ladder).
stop it! stop it at once!
this guy had a dream. he came here, to the holy grail of starcraft, the teamliquid forums, carrying the firm conviction inside that everyone here is so uberpro. he made his first serious topic, trying to convince the people he identified as slacking in their determination, to get on the right way and take sc2 and their lifes serious, and you are telling him frankly that some people here just play for fun?
shame on you! shame shame shame!
you just made little jes... no, XERtirips cry!
scnr;-)
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This is one of the dumbest, and most selfish, threads I have ever seen on TL. What the hell are you trying to say here? That you have the authority to tell people how to play? I am guessing that you made this second thread about the same damn topic because YOU are angry when you cant play "standard according to the current metagame" and that makes you feel uncomfortable. Well that is unfortunate, but do you really think the random players out there care about your opinions?
Also, why do you care about other people improving at the game? I cant fucking stand it when someone says to me in a game: "Hey you are a peice of shit because all you know how to do is all in every game, dont you care about improving? You dont improve at the game from all inning every game, blah blah blah whine cry moan..." I dont give a shit about improving at the game, and even if I did, all inning is PART OF THE GAME, and if you hate fucking playing against it, then YOU IMPROVE so you can stop it. The point of the game (or any GAME) is to enjoy it; if that means competing, improving mechanics, or just cheesing every game...it literally doesnt matter as long as you are enjoying the game, and you sir, do not have the right to tell anyone else what they should enjoy lol.
On top of that, this "metagame" you speak of only exists at the top tier skill level of this game. Do you think that, just because a Gold league player can forge FE vs zerg, that he is playing completely standard according to a metagame? Noooo...he can still cannon rush, carrier rush, mothership rush, make mass DT's, mass immortals off 3 robo's, make mass void rays off 3 stargates, get 3 forges and get 3/3/3 upgrades asap, (i can go on) none of which is "metagame standard" and can probably work because he is playing in Gold league. When those strategies stop working, they will find something else that works, or that they *enjoy doing* while playing the game.
Serious topic my ass. Close this trash thread down please....thank you.
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Let people play what they want. These "random" threads are just stupid.
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On August 23 2012 07:12 Fluffboll wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 07:10 andReslic wrote:
lol I doubt anyone cares about this, random is there and people will use it lol or dont tell me is it killing esports? With all the "Anti-Random" threads that has been popping up lately the answer seems to be yes, at least according to the thread creators of said threads. OT: If someone wants to play random, let them play random... why all these threads?
Some bad protoss player got 10 pooled while blindly going FFE. They got mad and decided that Random (of all things LOL) is OP and the TL community needed to be alerted immidiately. The rest is history.
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Bunch of brainless mechanical crybabies around here. I almost feel like playing again just so I can do weird stuff and make you mad because I'm not playing "standard".
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On August 23 2012 07:14 cari-kira wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 06:58 BloodNinja wrote:
I play random because its fun and I play to have fun. So why shouldn't I play random and have fun? Why exactly should I care about the metagame? Its not like I plan on going pro (or even hitting GM on ladder). stop it! stop it at once! this guy had a dream. he came here, to the holy grail of starcraft, the teamliquid forums, carrying the firm conviction inside that everyone here is so uberpro. he made his first serious topic, trying to convince the people he identified as slacking in their determination, to get on the right way and take sc2 and their lifes serious, and you are telling him frankly that some people here just play for fun? shame on you! shame shame shame! you just made little jes... no, XERtirips cry! scnr;-)
haha, couldn't agree more. The whole "random is bad for pratice" argument makes me giggle everytime I read it ^^
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People should play Random if they want to. Just don't complain if I go for a one-base all-in when I'm matched against you  .
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On August 23 2012 06:54 XERtirips wrote:
I have nothing against random, because I play random too, just not like picking random.
Like I choose terran for 10 games in a row then switch, etc.
But the reason why I disagree a ton with playing random is;
Learning defections.
---------
Just think, you play random, maybe you're chosen zerg, and you get a toss player.
The toss cant play out the standard early-midgame pvz until he either; lets the zerg scout him, or he scouts early on before his first pylon (Perhaps 7 supply?) and lets say, the toss is good and opens up 1 gate fe (not the normal pvz) and the zerg is forced to open up pool first because of the threat of early zealots with an expo behind it.
If you still don't understand, lemme try again;
You're chosen Protoss vs a zerg (again yes PvZ, just the player is protoss.) and the zerg is forced to open safe 11 pool or 15 pool, or defensive 10 pool and then expanding behind a speedling allin or baneling bust on 2 base.
Its not the standard ZvP/PvZ and you can only learn off of the non standard pvz that you get as being random.
I understand on how some actually do play random and tell their race, this post is not directed towards you. ^^
I do understand also on how some people dont even play random but do sometimes for the lols and try to learn abit about the other races, this isn't partially directed towards you guys/girls, either.
I am really putting this directly at the randoms on ladder who are plat or below who don't tell their race.
If you still dont understand, heres my TL;DR.
TL;DR= You dont play the normal meta game for each match up outside of random, and it's a bad learning defect in playing sc2.
/topic
(This is my first serious topic on TeamLiquid forums.
The original topic title was "Why I don't agree with playing random" but it didn't fit the topic.)
Sorry but your argument is flawed at the very basis. If you play Random to improve your skill with a picked race then yes, it's terrible. If you play Random because you play Random and the way games play out when you're Random is EXACTLY the way these games all play out then it's simply the best way to get better at RANDOM. Sigh. I don't want to learn what you call "standard PvZ" cause I don't play PvZ, I play RvZ. It's a totally different thing. Funnily enough, there are very standard builds for RvX which you'll have to learn eventually, too. It's only a bad thing if you're not sticking with Random. If you do, it's fine. And just to add a little twist: imo the best training to understand how battles play out is random. The opening builds are just lists of things to do, at least for 99% of players even in Masters.
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On August 23 2012 07:16 forsooth wrote:
Bunch of brainless mechanical crybabies around here. I almost feel like playing again just so I can do weird stuff and make you mad because I'm not playing "standard".
I chose to do a 3 gate sentry expand vs this zerg a week ago (for those new players, it was the "standard" pvz build a year ago, and I won purely because he made 6 spines and a bunch of roaches off 2 bases because he thought I was 1 basing, and I played macro the whole time. He wasnt very happy
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Here's what I've learned from all these random threads recently:
>I have the most fun when I not only win, but make my opponent rage on ladder.
>Nothing makes people rage like Random (apparently)
>I should switch to Random and cheese like there's no tomorrow.
>Harvest a bounty of delicious tears
>Profit
>Other memes where applicable.
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If you look at random as a race itself, learn the metagame of random. Why are you discouraging people from having the advantage of using random? For now, it's just that people aren't accepting random as a race since people don't like cheese. That's just part and parcel of the game, and I really wish to see more progamers using random.
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On August 23 2012 07:14 ishyishy wrote:
This is one of the dumbest, and most selfish, threads I have ever seen on TL. What the hell are you trying to say here? That you have the authority to tell people how to play? I am guessing that you made this second thread about the same damn topic because YOU are angry when you cant play "standard according to the current metagame" and that makes you feel uncomfortable. Well that is unfortunate, but do you really think the random players out there care about your opinions?
Also, why do you care about other people improving at the game? I cant fucking stand it when someone says to me in a game: "Hey you are a peice of shit because all you know how to do is all in every game, dont you care about improving? You dont improve at the game from all inning every game, blah blah blah whine cry moan..." I dont give a shit about improving at the game, and even if I did, all inning is PART OF THE GAME, and if you hate fucking playing against it, then YOU IMPROVE so you can stop it. The point of the game (or any GAME) is to enjoy it; if that means competing, improving mechanics, or just cheesing every game...it literally doesnt matter as long as you are enjoying the game, and you sir, do not have the right to tell anyone else what they should enjoy lol.
On top of that, this "metagame" you speak of only exists at the top tier skill level of this game. Do you think that, just because a Gold league player can forge FE vs zerg, that he is playing completely standard according to a metagame? Noooo...he can still cannon rush, carrier rush, mothership rush, make mass DT's, mass immortals off 3 robo's, make mass void rays off 3 stargates, get 3 forges and get 3/3/3 upgrades asap, (i can go on) none of which is "metagame standard" and can probably work because he is playing in Gold league. When those strategies stop working, they will find something else that works, or that they *enjoy doing* while playing the game.
Serious topic my ass. Close this trash thread down please....thank you.
Bolded the important part of your post. This OP is directly at people who ARE interested in improving. But no, the OP is the idiot because you love being a noob? Get real. If YOU decided what was thread worthy this would be a sad forum. Your not a mod, stop acting like one.
The only good counterargument ive seen in this thread came from capped:
"If you play random and it disrupts the metagame into something different, it doesnt matter because THAT is then the metagame they need to know, because they play random. Catch my drift? "
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The op makes a strong case to play random.
If you have equall skills in all 3 races then its just an advantage to play random.
No disadvantage at all.
The advantage is that you know wich race your opponent is and your opponent does not know your race yet.
This prevents him from playing an opening specifically against 1 race and he has to commit to an opening wich is more general and thus less good against that race, while you have the advantage of playing the opening wich is specifically designed for the race of the opponent.
The odds of the opponent going to cheese or do weird builds is not a disadvantage but an advantage.
In 99% of the cases the opponent will probs just do an early scout to counter, and then its basicly a normal situation with a small eco advantage for you (due to his early scout)
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in the end we will all be playing random... look at bw.
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1) Defection means desertion, a member of a larger group leaving the group. It is not synonymous to defect.
2) Why is the post aimed at "randoms on ladder who are plat or below who don't tell their race"? Plat and lower don't really need to worry about metagame, they just need to work on macro/micro/composition and so forth, they're not high enough level for metagame to matter (I'm low plat myself). Seems kind of like a pointless topic to me: either you like the slightly different metagame offered from Random, so you play Random, or you want to play standard, so you flip a mental dice every game (which I think is less fun than relying on SC2's pseudo random generator). Plus, who really cares (outside of the highest levels of competition) whether a random declares his race at the start of the game? Sure it might be good manners, but it doesn't effect anything: maybe you lose to the random player, and MAYBE you would have won had he declared his race... but so what? His MMR will rise and you won't see him again (or you get better and you beat him next time). People should just play however they like
EDIT: Reading comprehension fail, the post is aimed specifically at people who want to get better. Which, uh, I guess makes sense? but it only effects people who play random AND think about switching to a specific race AND again to those whom metagame matters (above plat). If they just continue to play random for the rest of WoL's career, the thread is pointless
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To be honest, If you Plat or below, learning and understanding the Meta-Game won't help you improve very much at all. It's basic Mechanics that will help you improve. In fact, there really is no 'Standard' game played under diamond, because people in these leagues don't have the proper mechanics to pull of the correct timings and builds that would you see in a High Masters+ game.
Edit: Guy above me said it all perfectly
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On August 23 2012 07:28 WniO wrote:
in the end we will all be playing random... look at bw.
Didn't people boot you instantly if you tried playing Random in ICCup?
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I'm sorry op, but you dont realise what your problem with random actually is
You dont play the normal meta game for each match up outside of random -> it's a bad learning defect in playing sc2.
how could this make any sense? those two sentences have nothing in common. you don't play the normal meta game in the given race, you play the normal meta game in random. you play in the way you'll win.. that's what "meta game" is. how could it be bad if you do your best to win? - that's where balance comes into play.
You're whining about XvR balance without realising.
Rename the damn thread to "Random is op and here's why".
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Random is a matchup too. I suggest you make a post "Why you should not play Protoss on the ladder."
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On August 23 2012 07:23 Equity213 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 07:14 ishyishy wrote:
This is one of the dumbest, and most selfish, threads I have ever seen on TL. What the hell are you trying to say here? That you have the authority to tell people how to play? I am guessing that you made this second thread about the same damn topic because YOU are angry when you cant play "standard according to the current metagame" and that makes you feel uncomfortable. Well that is unfortunate, but do you really think the random players out there care about your opinions?
Also, why do you care about other people improving at the game? I cant fucking stand it when someone says to me in a game: "Hey you are a peice of shit because all you know how to do is all in every game, dont you care about improving? You dont improve at the game from all inning every game, blah blah blah whine cry moan..." I dont give a shit about improving at the game, and even if I did, all inning is PART OF THE GAME, and if you hate fucking playing against it, then YOU IMPROVE so you can stop it. The point of the game (or any GAME) is to enjoy it; if that means competing, improving mechanics, or just cheesing every game...it literally doesnt matter as long as you are enjoying the game, and you sir, do not have the right to tell anyone else what they should enjoy lol.
On top of that, this "metagame" you speak of only exists at the top tier skill level of this game. Do you think that, just because a Gold league player can forge FE vs zerg, that he is playing completely standard according to a metagame? Noooo...he can still cannon rush, carrier rush, mothership rush, make mass DT's, mass immortals off 3 robo's, make mass void rays off 3 stargates, get 3 forges and get 3/3/3 upgrades asap, (i can go on) none of which is "metagame standard" and can probably work because he is playing in Gold league. When those strategies stop working, they will find something else that works, or that they *enjoy doing* while playing the game.
Serious topic my ass. Close this trash thread down please....thank you. Bolded the important part of your post. This OP is directly at people who ARE interested in improving. But no, the OP is the idiot because you love being a noob? Get real. If YOU decided what was thread worthy this would be a sad forum. Your not a mod, stop acting like one. The only good counterargument ive seen in this thread came from capped: "If you play random and it disrupts the metagame into something different, it doesnt matter because THAT is then the metagame they need to know, because they play random. Catch my drift? "
Ok so you are the all-knowing being of the universe? You cant argue that this isnt a selfish, rage-influenced thread if you just read every other post about people disagreeing and telling the OP off because he cant decide what is officially "fun" in this game.
This is a pointless thread; there is no "arguement", there is no discussion-invoking subject or topic here, it's just a bunch of complaining about people playing random.
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EPT
